The Savvy Communicator
Live the Life You Want, Relationship Red Flags, and Taking Up Space—with Alyse Freda-Colon
Do you ever struggle to communicate what you truly want or need in your relationships? Join us today as we explore the power of clear communication with therapist and coach, Alyse Freda-Colon. Discover how speaking up can help you live the life you deserve and break the cycle of attracting jerks.
We dive into the importance of knowing your must-haves and deal-breakers while navigating the dating world. Alyse shares her insights on how to avoid repetitive dating mistakes, and why self-communication is crucial in building a healthy relationship. Plus, learn how to overcome the fear of judgment, making waves, and conflict by expressing your desires and being ready to take up space.
Don't miss Alyse's expert advice on how to effectively use your voice to express yourself and ensure your needs are met. Be sure to check out Alyse at http://www.afctherapy.com . Head to www.savvycommunicator.com to join our forum and connect with other members. As your host, Amy Flanagan, I want to thank Alyse and our listeners for tuning in – check out Alyse's website at coachingwithalyse.com to get your FREE Secret Weapon Dating Guide!!
This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.
Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.
Do you ever struggle to communicate what you truly want or need in your relationships? Join us today as we explore the power of clear communication with therapist and coach, Alyse Freda-Colon. Discover how speaking up can help you live the life you deserve and break the cycle of attracting jerks.
We dive into the importance of knowing your must-haves and deal-breakers while navigating the dating world. Alyse shares her insights on how to avoid repetitive dating mistakes, and why self-communication is crucial in building a healthy relationship. Plus, learn how to overcome the fear of judgment, making waves, and conflict by expressing your desires and being ready to take up space.
Don't miss Alyse's expert advice on how to effectively use your voice to express yourself and ensure your needs are met. Be sure to check out Alyse at http://www.afctherapy.com . Head to www.savvycommunicator.com to join our forum and connect with other members. As your host, Amy Flanagan, I want to thank Alyse and our listeners for tuning in – check out Alyse's website at coachingwithalyse.com to get your FREE Secret Weapon Dating Guide!!
This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.
Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.
Hello and welcome to the Savvy Communicator Podcast. I'm your host, amy Flanigan. On today's episode, we're going to unpack a big question How do you live the life you want? This is a place where we discuss all things communication, facial expressions, body language and, most importantly, how to talk when you're not sure what to say. My expert guest today is Elise Frida-Cologne, a therapist who specializes in helping people live the life they want. Elise is a therapist in private practice in New York, a dating coach for women who are tired of dating assholes, and a coach for people pleasing women who spend way too much time lying awake at night worrying about all the what-ifs. She is an avid indoor cycling fanatic, an organizing guru who loves nothing more than cleaning out a closet and loves all things sparkly. Elise, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad to have you here. I have to say, living the life you want sounds really tempting. Is that something that's actually possible?
Speaker 2:A thousand percent possible, absolutely.
Speaker 1:What do you think gets in our way of living that life?
Speaker 2:So many things. The first thing that I think is important is for people to figure out what would that look like? So, let's say, in therapy, someone will come in and they need help. I want to clarify with them what would your life to look like? on the other end of this, let's imagine we were wildly successful. You walk away from therapy saying, oh my gosh, that was the greatest thing I've ever done. Tell me, what does your life look like? How do we know we were successful, whether that's goal setting, wanting to change behaviors, that you're engaged in, change relationships, career, whatever it is. So first being able to figure out what do I want my life to look like, and then we take steps. How are we going to get you there?
Speaker 1:That sounds really interesting, because I think a lot of people and I certainly do. if I'm looking at any kind of problem, the first thing I'll do is see the problem itself and be like well, in order to achieve this, i have to do all these things first And not look at the end product where I say but you know what? this is what I really want to do. It's not about moving this rock, it's about stepping around it.
Speaker 2:Absolutely stepping around it. What are the work around? And let's not talk about why you can't. Let's talk about how you can, in spite of whatever obstacles you might have, because everyone has obstacles. It doesn't mean you can't get where you want to be.
Speaker 1:That's good, that's reassuring. So what's a big communication issue that you see in your work? Because a lot of times, you know, i find that communication can be the issue, whether it's communication with you, whether it's communication with other people. Is there a pattern that you see, or is it all kinds of everything?
Speaker 2:Well, it's all kinds of everything and there are patterns that I say. One thing that I see a lot out is people expecting others usually their significant other, loved ones to read their mind, so feeling like if they really loved me, if they really knew me, they would know to do that, i wouldn't have to ask. And so they don't get what they want. They silently speak about it, build up that resentment thing while not clearly communicating what it is that they want, because they should know what I want.
Speaker 2:And sometimes clear and direct is just the easier approach that gets you the results you're looking for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've definitely been on both sides of that equation where sometimes just you think everything's going along just fine And then someone explodes and says well, you know A, B, C, D and E, you didn't do this, You don't understand me, etc. And I've been on the other side of it where it's just like well, this is so obvious, How can anybody miss that I'm, this is what I need and what I'm trying to do. Obviously they're trying to ignore me, And yeah. So I say, both of those are really hard.
Speaker 2:But sometimes if you can just let go of that idea that you have, that I shouldn't have to ask, or they should know to do. Okay, yeah, sure you can make an argument for that, but if you find that you're repeatedly upset about the same kind of thing, speak up. You know, i always think of this example of when my kids were younger. I like things, as you can tell, by the closet organizing. I like things neat and clean and organized. And when I am in a cluttered situation I can't think straight.
Speaker 2:And so if I would come home from work and there was crap everywhere, i like, feel it in my body and my shoulder and I can't think and I'm like, and I would be grouchy walking in the door like I come home to this tornado And I would just silently be pissed about it, like are you kidding me? I've been at work with it. You couldn't just straighten up a little bit? But when I had that conversation with my husband, like look, i know you don't really care about them, it makes me nuts. If you could just make sure that, like some stuff is put away, it just makes my transition to home so much easier. Oh, sure, no problem. And then it was done forever more right. I was thinking, well, he should want to do it or he should know how I am. But really all it took was could you please do this? And he said absolutely, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:I get that completely, because my husband feels that way, in that he's very precise about where things need to go And I'm sort of like the Tasmanian devil and I don't see what's around. And so finally he's like do you see these things here, if they could go? and for a while we didn't talk about it And he was just buying me organizational bins and things that you know, hinting pot lids and that, yes, he's like look, i got this wonderful thing for you.
Speaker 2:Wouldn't your kids look better in?
Speaker 1:this than over there? Yes, exactly, and finally he had to say you know, it doesn't just bother me, like you said, it gets into my bones when things are not in the right place. And you try to put some things in the right place, nice and well. Yes, i'll absolutely try. I don't promise to be perfect about that, but we'll see. And you know, and we came to a good compromise on it, but we finally had to sit down and talk about it and be direct, and I think that's so hard sometimes.
Speaker 2:It is hard because you I mean, you know, mostly you don't want to hurt the other person's feelings. And I'll say my husband listens to this, Oh, he won't care, He's like the bed made every day right.
Speaker 2:And he is the last one in the bedroom. He I wish it if the bed is made, but he knows that it makes me happy, so he I always smile when I walk in and I see that he has, quote, made the bed. He tries, but you know, if you pull the everything's like rumbled in it. it's not the way I would make the bed. But the fact that he does it for the sole purpose of making me happy. That's enough, Right.
Speaker 2:He's crying, and he's not a fantastic bedmaker, but the effort is maybe even more important than the result of the bed being made.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, exactly. Do you see people putting more effort into the process of the date itself and less into the communication or the long term of what you're looking for, like? when I think of a date, i think of you know, getting ready and going and being bubbly and fun and asking interesting questions, and that it sort of ends when the date ends And then all of a sudden I don't really know what happened. Does that?
Speaker 2:make sense? Yes, it does. Yeah, almost like putting on a show, right?
Speaker 1:You know it's like birds that you know, fly their plumage and everything, and you think, well, this is all I need to do, probably they'll understand all the things about me. I mean, i'm not going to ask that or anything, Right?
Speaker 2:I think that what I see a lot of people doing when dating that I think is a misstep is listening to words at the expense of paying attention to actions, going into a date invested in the outcomes and again listening to words. I think back two years ago, talking to a woman who see, when I work with someone and they have their relationship is not going well, i always want to know they're not, let's say, a bad relationship or high conflicts. I always want to know when did you first notice this as an issue? And the answer is never yesterday. It is on our first date before we got married. It's generally a long standing thing that, for whatever reason, let's say in this case, a woman has kind of pushed away or like well, maybe I can be okay with that, or maybe it's not a big deal, because they want the relationship to work. And I remember said on the first date she said to me don't get involved with me, i will only break your heart. And what did she do? She said oh, you don't take your way on.
Speaker 2:That's so silly Right. I mean talk about a straight up. Here's the truth. I'm going to say it to you. She didn't hear it, she didn't want to believe that And ultimately that's what ended up happening. But paying attention to behavior, i think, is so important, because people can say anything, they can promise you anything. Do the actions line up? Is there a consistency between the words and the actions, and if not, i say that that words are always less important than the actions. Pay attention. What does he do Not, what does he say?
Speaker 1:That makes sense. Yes, it does. I think that a lot of people play that kind of I'm bad news. You shouldn't get involved in me in the hopes that they will get chased, in the hopes that somebody will say yes, you are worth it. Yes, of course you know. No, i won't believe that because there is good in you, or?
Speaker 2:whatever.
Speaker 1:And movies and TV certainly underscore that it's possible to change somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it is, no, it is Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, people are generally happy with who they are, or they would make change.
Speaker 2:You know, i'm a therapist and I have people who come here and they pay money weekly and sit on this couch and they're working their asses off to change and it's still hard.
Speaker 1:So I always tell people.
Speaker 2:if you think someone is magically going to change, you are kidding yourself, because change is possible, but it takes a lot of work and commitment. It doesn't just happen.
Speaker 1:You know same thing.
Speaker 2:People are in a relationship and break up and then, over time, the feeling softened. Maybe we should get back, maybe different now. Why? What would be different now? What has changed? Right, right, this provision is history And what usually happens is you get back together and not too long after it's like oh, i remember why I broke up with this guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i remember watching some TV show once and they talked about is it during a relationship, every time the person does something to annoy you, you should write it down and keep it in a diary so that when you break up, you can go back and read all of those things again, You know what's funny is that I have used that as kind of an assignment for people throughout the years, not as they're dating, but more so, you know, coming out of a relationship that has not served them well, whether it was let's
Speaker 2:say abusive or emotionally abusive. I want you to write a list of every terrible thing he ever said to you, and not to torture yourself, but to fold up and put away in the event that you ever forget about that and say, well, maybe it'll be different this time. That is your logical self on that piece of paper talking to your wavering self who's thinking is this the person that you want to be with? who said these things to you or did these things to you? I think it's a great exercise.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's sort of communicating with yourself, i guess, being there at the beginning so that you can remember later on that you're telling yourself, you're reminding yourself, and I think a lot of times we don't communicate with ourselves. I have certainly been in that situation where it's like I'm not going to think about it, i'm just going to assume it's going to get better and not open my eyes until it's better, and then you end up walking around a long time with your eyes closed to something.
Speaker 2:But when you say I'm just going to assume it's going to get better, i'll say be a somewhat evidence.
Speaker 1:What evidence.
Speaker 2:Do you have to support the idea that this is going to get better? I'm going to get better. Let me hear it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and a lot of times you don't have it. If it's hope, I mean, that's not a plan, Right? Yeah, it's just like well, I want it to happen. Okay, well, that's nice.
Speaker 2:Yes. I don't know that's going to work out for you, let me see the evidence right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Same thing where you know, let's say, a woman is in a relationship and she's really unhappy with some of the stuff that the man is doing And she's he's working on it. He's good, working on it, okay. Well, how is he working? Well, he's working on it, okay. But like, how, what is he doing to work on it? Saying I'm working on it is not work. That's not a thing, Those are just words.
Speaker 2:What evidence, do you see? Because if someone is knocking themselves out to improve on something, you're going to see evidence of that. You're going to see they're really making an effort, Like making the bed. That's an example, right, It's a, it's a kind of tangible thing that says here I don't care about this that much, but I know you do And I'm going to do this because you. It's important to you. That is kind of what I'm talking about with evidence.
Speaker 2:Obviously That's not a great thing, but you get this So no, that's a great example.
Speaker 1:That is like you said it's tangible, it's visible, it's right there. Might not be perfect, but it's changing Absolutely So. So you teach women how not to date And asshole, which I think is the best title I have heard in a long time.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. Thank you Tell me about that.
Speaker 1:Tell me what that's like.
Speaker 2:Well, i found. So. My therapy practice is in New York and I found over. I've been doing this a very long time, longer than I care to admit. But I've had over the years that I was seeing young women over and over again with the same kinds of stories, the same sorts of struggles, meeting the same kind of guys, having the same kind of challenges and making the same mistakes. So it started to feel like I was having very similar conversations with like hundreds of women And I almost wanted to develop a handbook like here.
Speaker 2:If you're going to date here, read this first. and here are some things you can avoid. Here are some things I would recommend just to make your life easier. So let's say, for instance, i would see a lot of women having sex with a guy pretty early on, thinking this will accelerate our relationship. Once I have sex with him, then we'll be more likely to become a couple and be official because we've had sex already.
Speaker 2:I think that that is perhaps just a thought that they had And that isn't necessarily conducive to the longevity of this relationship. In fact, in my very small sample size I've seen it actually be counterproductive to a relationship developing Almost as though that emotional intimacy piece came too quickly and outpaced the other pieces of the relationship being able to develop. Yeah, sure?
Speaker 1:No, I can see that in a way. that's communication. If you decide to have sex with somebody at any point, you're communicating whatever that means to you, but that doesn't mean you're getting that same communication back. What do you say? Am I on the right wavelength?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so, And also maybe not being clear about what you need, what your I call them must-haves and deal breakers. Thinking about what it is you need in a relationship that's non-negotiable and what are the things you? will absolutely not tolerate in a relationship, and you'd be surprised how many women don't give much thought to that. They're swiping and the only thing they're going on is how photogenic this guy is, or?
Speaker 1:what he looks like with his shirt off?
Speaker 2:And, in the end, what are the things that are most important to you, and have you stopped to consider what you're looking for? and how are you gauging that from a picture on an app?
Speaker 1:How deeply.
Speaker 2:Are you looking at this person and who? they are And what if a guy is not that photogenic or doesn't? meet your height requirement or another requirement, or another kind of perhaps more superficial vetting tool that you've put in place. Are you giving those guys a chance? I think it's really important to have a sense about what you really need in a person and what the Negotiables are. Also, you know, height is one that I hear all the time.
Speaker 1:Well, he's got to be at least four inches taller than.
Speaker 2:Oh, well the time, and I said well, okay but if we? were to put height next to trustworthy or loyal or Hard-working, or solutionally supportive. I mean, where does it rank, you know? yeah and sometimes women, haven't really stopped to consider that.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. But, I think you need to. I think you need to. Funny, you say you know must-haves and deal breakers. It reminds me of buying a house. We know this. Yeah, you have. You have the same qualifications, but it's much easier To think long term because you're like well, i'm gonna be staying in this house for the next 20 years, so, yeah, this is a deal breaker.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a same idea, though you know like for me a mudrow was like a Be, so nice, i could live without it.
Speaker 2:But it would be nice. I never got one, but it would have been nice, but I didn't have to have a mudrow. You need to consider what are those things that you know. They're the aqua them a nice to have there. They're not deal breakers and they're not absolute must-haves, they're just maybe it'll be nice if he was four inches taller than I. But yeah, ultimately is that, is that at the top of the list?
Speaker 2:Because, because I do have women make these lists and then I have them put them in order of importance to kind of really get clear about What they want, because what often happens to even if, let's say, a woman has a clearer sense of what she's looking for, sometimes she doesn't want to to scare away a prospect and so she can kind of pretend that she's okay with, you know, maybe behavior She's not okay with or a guy that she's really not that compatible with, especially if she feels like Time is a ticking and I really want it to be married by now. So I can't too choosy, and Yeah, then it can get a little tougher.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm. Yeah, i can see that. Let's take a quick break. We're talking with Elise Frida Cologne, expert in helping people lead the life They want. If you're enjoying the show, follow us on Instagram or Facebook, or handle is at savvy communicator communicatorcom. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the savvy communicator podcast. We have with us Elise Frida Cologne, licensed therapist and expert in teaching people to live the life they want. And, elise, one of the questions that I have for you, or what are some tips that That you can give us through your experience for people When starting to date or they're starting to want a relationship, communication tips that you would recommend?
Speaker 2:I Think that people getting okay with being clear and direct in asking for what they want is. Really important and that, if you are someone who is not used to that, it's going to feel uncomfortable and that's okay. You can survive it.
Speaker 1:But being clear and not leaving a lot of room for miscommunication or I think is super important mm-hmm, why do you think we we dance around that so much and and we Try not to be direct and we try to. You know, i remember when I was dating and so often I would just try to imply things that I assumed they would automatically pick up on and they didn't.
Speaker 2:I think it's a million things. I think it's fear of being seen as Needy, clingy, bossy, bitchy, i mean, you know.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:However someone chooses to see it. I think there's some fear with women as taking space of owning who they are and what their needs are. People are say things like I don't want to rock the boat, or I just want to keep the peace, and so they will Swallow their resentment and just to do the easy thing in the moment, not realizing that. Okay, so you've kept the peace for the moment, but what you really done is started at a resentment bank that you are making regular deposit yeah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And that it, it just continues to build and You're kidding yourself if you think that you're just letting that go because that comes out right communications.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but just verbal so yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not suggesting that you make a big deal over everything, but sometimes you you know you need to pick your battles, but sometimes you need to have a battle or you need to have a fright and say, hey, wait a second. I'm not okay with this. This is something we need to talk about and Sort of clear the air, nip it in the bud and move forward where everyone is on the same page, instead of just Being quiet just to keep things peaceful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's true. I know I'm gonna ask this, although I think you've already answered it. If you talk about top issues that you see a lot of the time, what would you say? some of the top issues are, i know you you've mentioned, you know, being nice and wanting to avoid conflict. So, top issues in terms of communication?
Speaker 2:in terms of communication, yeah, Well, as I said before that though, the mind reading thing is a big one. Not being clear about what you know, what you want fear of being judged in asking for what you want, or being clear about what your needs are. Not wanting to make waves.
Speaker 2:Yeah and the fear of conflict is is a thing, really is a thing. People have a hard time being uncomfortable or having an uncomfortable conversation, especially if they grew up in a house where Sometimes, if it was very high conflicts it can be hard, or if there was no conflict It's far into that. Yeah and so maybe they were never given permission to speak up to have Thoughts about something or needs or wants, and so they just sort of push it away, i But I think there's value in being heard, in speaking your truth and trusting that the person you are with will receive that Hopefully.
Speaker 2:hopefully, the person will receive it and will to help you in that, whether it's something that they do or you know that because ideally that's what you wanted a partner. They care about how you feel and if you are upset about something and bring it to them. They want to hear about it, and if they don't, then you have a whole other problem. Then you come to the stop dating asshole school. Your partner should care if you're upset about something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, And that can be hard to see. It can be hard to see and hard to know. I've certainly been there where it's just like I don't like this, So maybe I'll ignore it. I can be a huge. If I ignore this, it'll go away.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, magical thinking And also, i think, that sometimes and again I work with some men, but more so women sometimes feel like am I allowed to feel this way?
Speaker 1:Am I allowed to?
Speaker 2:Is this even okay? Is this even reasonable? And they doubt their own right really to have feelings about something, and so they don't speak up because they just don't feel like they can Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So a lot of times people feel that if you call somebody on their crap or their behavior, that it opens the door to conflict, which is bad. And you really look at conflict as being bad.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily. I mean again, you're not picking fights for the sake of picking fights, but yes, if you need to. If there's something has happened where, let's say, a couple and a woman feels as though her husband has undermined her with the kid, i said he couldn't go to his friend's house, and then you came in and said, no, it's okay, you can go. That's an issue that needs to be addressed, right? And so someone who's a little more conflict-averse might say well, don't, it's not such a big deal. All right, it's not a big deal. I'm just not going to say anything because I don't want to start something. Okay, but you have avoided a conflict in the short term, but ultimately, long term, have you now set the stage for this undermining to become a?
Speaker 1:pattern right.
Speaker 2:You have not used your voice and expressed how you felt and said clearly what you want to see happen, Looking forward? what if you were to say, hey, I want to talk to you about this.
Speaker 2:I really didn't like how that went down. I didn't like that. You undermined me in front of our child. If you have a difference of opinion about something that I've already told him, in the future can we please talk privately about it and come together about how to handle it? So, going forward, I want us to be a team and a united front while we are making decisions for our child.
Speaker 2:One could say okay, you're opening the door to conflict. I would say you are opening the door to a discussion that needs to happen and that is going to become a bigger problem if you do not nip it in the bud.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, i like the term you use about resentment bank, the idea that if you don't have a conversation, if you don't allow yourself to have a discussion about that, you're just making a deposit in the bank So, and pretty soon it's going to overflow And then you won't have as much control over how you say it or discuss it or anything. It's just going to come pouring out.
Speaker 2:It comes out and communication is not just talking It comes out in other ways, lots of other ways. So, those feelings are going to get expressed, whether or not you have control, and how they're expressed. That is something that's up to you, And it seems to me just much more practical to deal with it and straight up hey, I didn't like this, Let's talk about this and figure out how we can avoid this kind of conflict or problem in the future. Seems reasonable to me.
Speaker 1:Yes, it does. I think a lot of people are like, yeah, it's reasonable, i'm just not going to do it right at this minute. What's the worst thing about doing it?
Speaker 2:Right, it's like you know you're in a situation with the child and so the husband kind of overrode your decision. You bring it up. I'm not happy with this. What is the fear? What do you imagine? the worst-case scenario is in that discussion.
Speaker 1:Yeah Is bringing that forward for a lot of people. Does it help? Does it relieve fears If they're like well, the worst thing that could happen is we break up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, and sometimes you have to look at that. What is the worst? Maybe for some they may say, well, i'm afraid he'll say, well, i don't care what you said, i get to make the decisions, or I'm the boss. What I shouldn't go for, or if you don't like it, you can leave. I don't know. Whatever the fear is like, what is keeping you from using your voice?
Speaker 2:And let's explore that, and sometimes there isn't really a fear, it's just I just don't do that. I'm not comfortable with that, and maybe it's like a muscle that you haven't exercised in a while, where you work that tricep hard and then the next day it hurts to lift your hand over your head. But then it gets easier because, oh OK, now I'm working up and I'm acclimated into this and you need to practice.
Speaker 2:And I always encourage people. I always encourage my clients to use their voice if they're new to this in low stakes situations. Right Things that are inconsequential, that maybe you would have just let go Regardless in your relationship out in the world. If the coffee order you got was wrong, just say I'm not going to bother anybody, I'll just no. Say this isn't what I ordered, would you please? add cream or an extra sugar, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Use your voice any opportunity you can to practice Taking up a little space, and I think that once you get a little bit more comfortable with that, you can then expand that out into other areas of your life, whether that's work or your relationships, so forth. I highly recommend that people communicate, use your voice, speak your mind, be kind, clear and direct.
Speaker 1:Well, elise, it's just been fantastic to have you and your expert advice here today. Thank you so very much. Thank you so very much. I love this. I'm so glad I've had a fantastic time. Thank you to our audience. Go to wwwsavvycommunicatorcom to become part of the conversation yourself. Join our forum and you can ask questions that we will get back to Elise, or you can simply connect with other members. All the links will be in the show notes. I'm your host, amy Flanagan. See you next time.