Unlocking Effective Communication: Nurturing Meaningful Connections and the Five Links In Love—with Ann Visser

Have you ever felt lost in your relationships, struggling to communicate effectively? In this captivating episode, we had the pleasure of speaking with Ann Visser, a life coach, speaker, and trainer at 4better4ever.com, and certified John Maxwell coach. Ann shares her personal journey of learning to communicate better in her marriage, and how those skills have carried over into other aspects of her life. Listen in as we explore the impact of external pressures and internal conflict avoidance on our relationships, and the importance of empathy and understanding.

Diving into the realm of attachment theory, Ann provides insight into the different attachment styles in relationships and their effect on communication. We discuss the challenges of staying vulnerable in conversation and how it may take multiple attempts to get our message across. Moreover, we explore the value of listening and the power it holds in fostering connection and understanding.

Lastly, we touch on the role of communication in the workplace, highlighting the importance of healthy employee attachments and prioritizing relationship-building over competition. It will leave you feeling inspired and equipped to tackle any communication challenges that come your way. Don't miss this episode as we delve into Ann's experiences and insights on nurturing meaningful connections in our lives.

This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.

Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the Savvy Communicator podcast. Today, our expert guests will help us dive deep into relationships. What are the five links in love? This is a place where we discuss all things communication, talking, facial expressions, body language and, most importantly, how to talk when you're not sure what to say. I'm your host, amy Flanagan, and today I'd like to say hello to our expert guest, mrs Anne Visser, and welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Hello, Amy, It's good to see you again and thank you for having me on the Savvy Communicator podcast.

Speaker 1: 0:35

Thank you so much. We're really glad to have you here. So Anne is a life coach, a speaker and trainer with For Better Forever, as well as a certified John Maxwell coach, speaker and trainer, so we're very lucky to have you here today. I appreciate that. I know you're going to tell us what some of that means in just a minute. A lot of times we only hear about communication as it relates to the business world, as in how to communicate with your boss, for example, but what has been your experience in becoming a speaker and trainer specifically about communication?

Speaker 2: 1:05

Well, i am passionate about communication because of my own personal story and I'm passionate to equip others to communicate in a way that aligns with their values, because I think we're happier with ourselves tomorrow if we communicate in a way that aligns with their values today. But it's really because of my own story and the struggles that we had in our marriage. It has been as I have been teaching and training for over 20 years. I've realized that the skills that I learned within my marriage and then helped other people to learn new skills within their relationships and their intimate relationships in particular, i discovered that these skills are so incredibly transferable and that they're not soft skills or actually incredibly essential skills to be able to get along, whether it's at home or whether it's at work.

Speaker 1: 1:58

Yes, absolutely Absolutely. Tell us more about your story. How did this start for you?

Speaker 2: 2:04

So I met a young man when I was 15 and I chased him Really shamelessly, just chanked him, just give me a date. I was writing him notes in his desk and leaving them in his desk at school And three years later I did get a date. Three years later we married. That's fantastic. We were so passionate and crazy in love. Honestly, amy And the photographer said to us on that day I've never seen a couple look at each other the way the two of you look at each other.

Speaker 1: 2:41

Oh crazy, That's wonderful Yes.

Speaker 2: 2:46

One month after we were married I was pregnant and very, very sick On the couch couldn't move, kind of sick. And that's a rough way to start marriage And then fast forward. we had five children in six years.

Speaker 1: 3:03

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2: 3:05

And then, on top of that, my husband is a farmer. He was working long hours. I often felt like a single mom And so very quickly we had these external pressures pressing in on us. But then we had the internal pressures, because I wasn't communicating well, he wasn't communicating well, we both have conflict, we didn't want to fight And of course that doesn't work very well, but we didn't know that.

Speaker 2: 3:29

We thought we were doing a good thing, but actually avoiding that Just builds resentment And it's not good for a relationship. And so this being separate and this grew in our relationship. And so we got to the point where we were sitting in our farm truck on a date and I looked at him and I said I can't do this anymore. I said we just keep hurting each other. He said what do you mean? you can't do this anymore. And I said I can't do marriage like this anymore. I said we just keep hurting each other. We go around and around the same old thing. We don't ever resolve anything And I'm so hurt and I'm so tired.

Speaker 2: 4:07

And that lingered in his heart in a different way, and he shared his pain with me. I missed his pain. I was so busy caring for our children and all those little needs and trying to keep up myself with physical and emotional needs of little ones that I missed his pain entirely. But that night he shared very vulnerably and honestly about how he was feeling and what was happening for him, and we both looked at each other and said, okay, we need to get the help that we need in order to get well again, and so that was like a pivotal conversation in our relationship that put me on a personal growth journey. That put us on a relationship growth journey in order to be better together, and a big part of that was learning to communicate and learning how to conflict in a way that will actually pull us closer together instead of driving us further apart, which is what it was doing.

Speaker 1: 5:08

Wow, that's so meaningful to hear you say that, because I have to say I don't have children. I have seven nephews and one niece. But I have experienced similar things in my own marriage in that and in communication in general, because it's just like, well, I'm talking to you, So aren't you hearing the exact things that I'm trying to say, Am I not? I'm feeling so much. How am I not saying exactly what I'm feeling? How are you not hearing exactly what I'm feeling? And so that really resonates with me to hear you say that.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Yeah, and then they say it back to you. It was like wait a minute, that's not what I said. How did you get that out of this? That is not what I said. Let's go back. We learned to talk when we're so little, like two and some. We learned to talk And you would think that if we learn at such a young age how to talk, that we would be better at communication. But communication is so much more than the speaking, and there are so many important, essential communication skills that we need that are really transferable, whether they're in our relationship with a home or with friends or with family members or the network as well, and we need to be able to communicate in a way so that other people can understand us, receive the information and the message, because the information is heard of it, there's a message in it as well, and the experience of whatever it is that's happening in the moment.

Speaker 1: 6:44

Yes, i absolutely agree with you. It's part of the reason why I started this podcast, because I think all of us we need to know more about how to communicate, whether that's how to be aware of what it is we're expressing, whether it's our facial expressions or our body language, or what we're verbally saying to someone else to be able to have that knowledge and then to have that responsibility.

Speaker 1: 7:13

So, that when it goes wrong, we're able to say, okay, let's take a minute. This isn't what I met, but I understand that. this is what you heard And, yeah, it's very important to me as well.

Speaker 2: 7:26

And so much is said outside of the words that we speak, so much is said in that body language that you spoke about. so much.

Speaker 2: 7:34

Whether we're just walking by somebody and we touch them and there's an expression there of connection, an expression oh, i like you, an expression of I want you, whether the way we greet each other it's so important the way we touch one another, and then it's appropriate and then it's kind. I mean, we're having sex business people. When we meet each other, the first thing we do is shake hands as an expression of building trust, and this is who I am like.

Speaker 2: 8:03

An openness to that of this is who I am and of an introduction to maybe there's something here, a connection where we can work together.

Speaker 1: 8:14

Yes, yes, absolutely. In fact, that's one of the is it the five pillars or the five links that you teach about touches one of them?

Speaker 2: 8:23

Yes, it is. And so I teach a program called How to Avoid Falling for a Jerk, and I just love this program. It is so powerful. It's a five week program. It's based on attachment theory. It's been written by Dr John Venet, but I'm licensed to teach it. And it is.

Speaker 2: 8:45

it's based on the attachment model And there are five links in love and every link is important to love and relationship. The five links are to know, which is so incredibly important. When I know how to approach you, when I know where you're hurting, your pain is, I know how to talk to you, how to speak with you about a certain topic. If I know that a certain topic is going to be challenging for you, but I know that we need to talk about it, then I'm going to approach a little bit differently than if I know oh, this is no big deal, but we do need to talk about it.

Speaker 2: 9:18

It's going to be a different approach.

Speaker 1: 9:19

Yes, Because I know you Yes.

Speaker 2: 9:20

I can approach it differently. The second link is to trust, and trust is so paramount to relationships. It gives us a sense of security in the relationship because I know who you are, what you're about, what's important to you, and you've built that trust. I don't have any questions. There's a. I don't have any questions about where you are or what you're doing, because I know you and I trust you. So links are all connected to one another. And then third link is to rely. The fourth is to commit.

Speaker 2: 9:48

Commitment is I belong to you and you belong to me, not in that sick sense of ownership That's. That's sick and that's not healthy, but in the sense of whether we're together or not, we're still together. Yes, and the commitment that I've made to you, whether it's as a friend, so I'm not going to talk behind your back or I'm not going to tell your story to someone else, it's your story and you can uncommitted to you in that, or whether it's a commitment that you've made to a partner that I am. This is my exclusive relationship with you And you're the one that I share things with. You're the one who knows more about me than anyone else in the world And we have that mutual commitment for one another.

Speaker 2: 10:31

And the last link in love and attachment is to touch, and so each of these links are on sliders, which I love, and that's why it's a picture of love, exactly. And so, as I'm teaching the course, i tell stories and I have my clients put the relationship on the model, and even as you tell the story, the relationship may change. Like, for instance, i learned something about you that I don't like, so I know more and my trust was up here. But now that I know more and something that I don't like, you've spoken about me behind my back or whatever, which I just had a conversation with somebody lately about that Trust falls. Right, yes, trust falls.

Speaker 2: 11:10

And then I don't know if I can really depend on you, which is reliance. And then, how committed are you to me in this relationship? And no, heck, no, i'm not touching you. So links are impacted by the other links, and so this is a program for singles. It's so incredibly valuable. I have been teaching this program for over 10 years now And it's transferable, it goes. I've taken it into jail, i've been able to take it into a recovery home for addicts, because relationships are essential for their sobriety And to know to value themselves.

Speaker 2: 11:47

This is about value yourself right To put yourself in a relationship with people who are truly trustworthy, who are value you and appreciate you for who you are. And so I've been able to take it into schools, And now I'm teaching it virtually to singles again.

Speaker 1: 12:05

That is wonderful. One of the things that just jumped out at me is talking about value. I think that taking the time to learn about communication really does come back to a sense of value in yourself. A lot of times we don't realize that we're not valuing ourselves when we just plunge in and say, well, i'm going to say this and hopefully it will come out the way I want. at the other end, we think that if we're being genuine, then we don't need to practice. If we practice something, then it must not be genuine. Both of those things really stand out to me, based on what you just said.

Speaker 2: 12:52

Isn't that so true that we think that if, oh man, if I have to practice this, then it's not really authentic to who I am or how important it is to be able to practice, because we think so many thoughts in the run of the day and not all of the thoughts are true and not all of the thoughts are helpful and not all of our thoughts are good or healthy. So, to be able to sort through okay, if I say it this way, and I know who you are and I know that this is going to and Dr John Gottman says that the first few minutes, the way you start a conversation, will determine the outcome, and so he can predict up to 93% if that relationship is going to survive or not, or if it's going to thrive.

Speaker 2: 13:39

By the way, that we communicate and, by the way, we start a conversation And so if I know that this is a pain point for you and I just plunge in and don't practice and don't think of it what I'm going to say and just say, well, what I have to say is really important and you need to hear what I'm going to say. For the relationship in the long run which I I increase my people what is the goal of your relationship? What is the goal of your relationship? So then that kind of tempers, what I say in the relationship Yes, the goal is connection Then maybe this is something I really need to talk about, because I feel like you're not respecting me here. But then how I approach that conversation will determine what I know about you.

Speaker 1: 14:20

Yes, He's the scientist that has observed I don't know thousands of couples speak to each other just on innocuous topics, And that's where he gets his 93% accuracy rating on whether or not they stay together. Are we thinking of the same?

Speaker 2: 14:37

person Yes.

Speaker 1: 14:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:39

Well, it's renowned. Anyone else who has so much research based on the physiological happenings within a conversation between couples, he has more information, more theory based on research between couples, and that's where his work comes from. It was very powerful.

Speaker 1: 15:01

Yes, i remember reading Blink by Malcolm Gladwell, and he's mentioned in there, along with Dr Paul Ekman, who did some of the seminal work on facial expressions, and those two scientists got me much more interested in the field of communication And that's where I started learning more on that. So it's wonderful that you mentioned him, because I was really taken by his work.

Speaker 2: 15:25

I was going to say. we often think about communication skills as soft skills And we often think about them as oh, I'll get to that later. I'll look after that later.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Let me really dive in this important information, yes, yes, and I think that there are so many times where we assume that it's going to go right, that it's so simple, it has to go right, and so much of communication really is a trial and error process And I think, just like you said, we learn to talk at such a young age. Well, we also learn at such a young age hey, if I don't do it this way and get what I want, maybe I'll try it this way to get what I want. And while we're at such a young age, willing to try different things to find success, we forget that as we get older And we forget that it might take two or three attempts to get through what I'm trying to say, and that's all right, that's okay. We're not doing it to be manipulative, the way little ones try to do sometimes, but we have to do it because we're communicating with somebody that isn't necessarily on the same wavelength that we are.

Speaker 2: 16:36

I love how you're talking about it as a journey.

Speaker 1: 16:39

Yes, Yes, absolutely, and the journey is different for us, with different people.

Speaker 1: 16:47

Yes, yes, it absolutely is. And what I think is also interesting is that, because it's a trial and error process, a lot of times if we try and we don't succeed, it can be very frightening for us And we pull back and say, well, i'm not going to try that again because it didn't work out the way I thought it was going to work. And if we try and succeed, often we don't know how we did it And so there's nothing to rely on when it comes time to do that again Again. Whether it's in a personal relationship, whether it's at work, we're trying to stand up for ourselves and get what we need, whether it's in a friendship, and we want to say, hey, don't talk behind my back, we don't have anything to rely on because we're not sure how we did it the first time And we're afraid to do it again because we're afraid it might not work.

Speaker 1: 17:33

And so this training that you're talking about and really working through and practicing and I love the visual aspect of the sliders I think is so important because, like any learning, if you are able to, some people are visual learners, some people are auditory learners and you're crossing those boundaries And that's really great. So, if you don't mind going back for just a second. I wanted to know if you would talk to us a little bit about attachment theory that your program is based on, because some people may not be familiar with it.

Speaker 2: 18:08

Well, attachment theory it happens as babies already, in the way that we attach and bond to our parents or don't bond to our parents, and so there are different styles of attachments. So there's an aggressive attachment where you try to get your needs met by stepping all over everyone else because you're safe and you don't, you disregard other people, and so it's often thought about as aggressive, as being physically aggressive, but it can also be emotionally aggressive in the way that you're crossing over everyone else's boundary lines to get what you think you need And it turns everybody off.

Speaker 2: 18:52

You don't get what you need sometimes, or sometimes you get what you need just by walking over everybody, but people are not happy with you by the way that you walk over, yes, and then there's like the avoidant attachment style, and that's where you just avoid conversations. And this is where we were. We were avoidant, we did not wanna talk about problems. I thought it was a good thing, i thought it was healthy to not fight and not disagree. I thought we were doing a very good thing, but in we were creating space, emotional distance and emotional space. We were not vulnerable.

Speaker 2: 19:27

This is a avoidant style. You turn away from each other because there's a whole lot of emotion going on. You don't know what to do with it And you think that you need to be independent and kind of look after yourself instead of actually being interdependent with another person and pulling closer to somebody, even though it's hard. And so you find those, we found those emotions. We were both avoidant and we found those emotions really, really hard to be in the room together because they were so wrong, and so we were threatened by those emotions from each other And we would pull apart, kind of get some release. And that avoidance of course makes you feel like you're alone, it makes you feel like you don't belong And it makes you feel like you're not being heard or seen because you can't be open with them, the other person, about who you are and what's important to you, what you value and what you want.

Speaker 2: 20:24

And, of course, the attachment style that we want us to be assertive and where we get our needs met while still not running over other people but instead caring for other people. And when you're with someone who's in a healthy attachment you feel valued, but you know exactly where they are. You don't have to guess about it. There's no guessing games. That's kind of the passive, where you're just kind of guessing about what they want, because they don't say it ever. but in a healthy attachment They clearly state what they want, who they are, how they're feeling, and they put it out there what they want, but they don't expect that they're gonna necessarily get what they want from you.

Speaker 2: 21:11

Yes, but they can put it out there and then they can negotiate with it. And when you walk away from competition, you still feel like you matter. And this happens in workplaces all the time. Yes, and I was speaking with a young woman who worked in multiple. She traveled to multiple businesses for work Her boss. She loved her boss. It was about relationship rather than about production.

Speaker 2: 21:38

And then there was a change in leadership And she felt the leadership was valuing production and they wanted more out of her and they wanted her to go in more places And she just couldn't keep up with it And she was feeling very frustrated And she said this to me. She said you know, the funny thing is I would have done the work for my previous boss because I knew he'd vote me Yes. So we'll work our tail off if we know that somebody cares, Because we're in a healthy attachment. We know that we're feeling valued by our boss or by the person that we're working for. Yes, Yes, you're right.

Speaker 1: 22:19

We're willing to go so much farther with that when we're understood Or we know there's the potential there to be understood. So that's what happened. Did she decide to move to another job?

Speaker 2: 22:32

Yes, very shortly after I had spoken to her, she decided it was time Because she wasn't feeling valued. And I honestly think that we lose our best people first, because they understand that they're not being valued And they will be.

Speaker 1: 22:47

First, nice and kind and agreeable people stay too long.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Yes, we stay too long when we're too nice and too agreeable and too kind, because we have this incredible hope and sometimes even a fantasy, that it's gonna get better. But people at the top are unhealthy. They need to do the work. We can't do the work for them. They need to work in order to be well, in order to be healthy in order to be in healthy relationships, whether it's at work or at home, And if your people are suffering at work, if your people are suffering at work.

Speaker 1: 23:27

Yes, absolutely, And it just. I just flashed on an image of corporate executives sitting in a retreat somewhere trying to figure out how to show their employees that they're valued, and coming up with pizza parties and wearing jeans to work day and doing things like that and not really being able to connect and communicate because they're not sure how and you know they're missing it.

Speaker 2: 23:53

They're missing it and what people really want. I think, amy, what people really want is to be heard. Even if you can't fix my problem, if I feel like you've really listened to what I am struggling with and if you're willing to kind of enter into that problem with me, help me problem solve, help me work through it, then people feel valued, people feel like you care, even if you can't make the problem go away or disappear, and want that. And I think listening is lost, it's a lost art. I think we don't listen enough and I think that's why coaching has taken off, because, just in the purest sense of the word, coaches listen.

Speaker 2: 24:39

They don't dictate, they don't teach, they don't train, they listen and you hear yourself thing and helps you sort through what is going on inside, and when bosses or managers are listening to their people, their people feel like, okay, you care, really listen, not just pretend, but genuinely listen and care about what's happening to your people.

Speaker 1: 25:03

We're going to take a quick break. We're talking with Anne Visser, who is a life coach, speaker and trainer with For Better Forever. That is the number four better number four ever com, and if you're enjoying what you're hearing, join us on Instagram and Facebook, where my handle is at Savvy Communicator, we'll be right back. Welcome back to the Savvy Communicator podcast, anne. I'm just intrigued by everything that you're saying, so tell me more about your story.

Speaker 2: 25:37

And so, Anne, the big part of what we needed to learn was how to communicate, and the first part of communication that I didn't know. I didn't know Because we don't know.

Speaker 2: 25:49

I did not know how, what was going on inside of me. So then I couldn't communicate that with my husband, and so I had to learn to journal out. What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What is it that I really, really want here? What's happening for me? What am I worried about? That was a big question for me. What am I worried about?

Speaker 2: 26:08

Because often, when I would just journalize those questions, i didn't even have to have the conversation with him, because it was all in my head and now it was on the paper and it was like a good flush, like a good cleanup up, mental clean out. Yes, and it gave me such clarity to be able to come to him then and say this is how I'm feeling, this is what I think about, this, this is what I'm worried about, this is what I really want, so clear. And that clarity was so helpful for him, because when I say, well, i have a lot of words, we don't use a lot of words. It's like him trying to find a needle in a haystack. It's impossible for him to find a point.

Speaker 2: 26:53

And so I discovered as I journal, it gave me the ability to be able to clarify and speak clearly with him what it is that I really want, and so we call this pivotal conversations, and this is the first sea of pivotal conversations is to check emotions, and often my emotions would overwhelm me and I would not be able to clearly say I'd be triggered and I would not be able to clearly communicate what it was that I wanted to say to him, and so journaling through these questions really helped me to get to the point of what it was I wanted to say with him.

Speaker 2: 27:28

I remember a time, amy, when I was actually sitting with my adult daughter at the table the kitchen table and I was sharing with her a conversation I knew I needed to have about boundaries with our son And I blurted out to him, to her I just don't trust him. She looked at me, my very wise daughter, and said Mom, you need to check. That. That's awful. And I knew as soon as it was out of my mouth I had a problem, because I knew that's not where he was, but that's where I was.

Speaker 2: 28:01

And I went to my thinking chair That's what I call a place where I journal And I started to journal out those questions What am I thinking, what am I feeling, what am I worried about? And I recognize that I was in protection mode. My emotions were not current with where he was. He wasn't there anymore, but we had had significant challenges raising him, as he knows and he will admit to, but he wasn't there anymore. He was an adult now, but I was stuck back in 2005.

Speaker 2: 28:32

I would have sabotaged that little conversation I needed to have with him about boundaries if I had not checked my first and check my motives, Because my motive was protection mode. I'm going to protect my heart because I don't trust him. And so checking those emotions and checking our motives, because motives are slippery things. Sometimes when someone hurts us, we're like I'm just going to make you suffer a little bit longer here because I don't like what you said to me and I don't trust you Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:02

So my motive is to protect myself instead of going into the conversation clearly clear about what it is that's going on, what's happening, what my experience is and where I need to go from here. What's the real point. See his check emotions And that is so incredibly valuable for my people. My people are incredibly high and hard. They're very agreeable. They do not want to rock the boat and they very easily get overwhelmed with and triggered with emotions that sabotage their conversations. And so we check emotions and prepping for the conversation, because the conversation often comes up again and again And you're leaving all the mess to me and I don't feel respected, or you have not taken out the garbage all week and this is your responsibility. You know whether it's a child or whether it's person we live with. So having that kind of clarity and checking those emotions helps the conversation to go off much better. It helps us start better and helps us finish better.

Speaker 1: 30:16

That's so interesting. Just to digress for a second, i used to be an actor and talking about motives and motivation and things, not only are they extra important in real life, but because acting is trying to imitate real life, it comes into question and into practice there as well. And I think that's the reason why you see a lot of bad acting is because they are not approaching it as clearly as what you are laying out. And a lot of times I think in communication, we feel like we have to be somewhere else, we someone else. We feel like we have to be kind, we have to be understanding, we have to just, you know, kind of listen and take it and okay, that's all right, and assume that it'll work itself out eventually. And it doesn't. And we need techniques and we need practice and we need to rely on a framework in order to feel confident going forward.

Speaker 2: 31:21

Yes, and when it doesn't go well, again and again that resentment starts to build. And that's been our experience and that was what was happening in our marriage in the beginning that resentment building and building and building until we had this stack of hurt and pain that we had to work through in order to and forgive, in order to better together. And so we say keep short accounts on that, like, don't let that stacking happen so that you, there's so much pain there and that you have to work through that pain and that hurt and deal with it sooner than later. It's so much better, it's so much easier because we don't have all that hurt and pain buried inside.

Speaker 1: 32:04

Yes, Yes, and I can see how that would apply to you know, a friendship or a work relationship as well. I mean, i've certainly been in jobs where you think, well, i'm going to do the absolute bare minimum if they don't specifically ask me to do it. I'm not going to do it because I'm not understood and I'm not valued and I'm not, you know, fill in the blank. Same with friendships. A lot of times you feel I'm not valued, they're not listening to me, what's important to me is not important to them. Therefore, i'm going to just take a backseat and ride along and not invest anything.

Speaker 2: 32:44

And that's communicating in itself, isn't it, Amy? Yeah, Like protest behavior, right, When I don't like what you're doing. but I'm not going to talk about it, I'm going to protest it.

Speaker 2: 32:54

So, I'm going to either attack or come at you, or I'm just going to withdraw and turn away from you, because I don't like what you're saying. I don't like what you're doing. I don't like this extra work that you're putting on my plate. I don't like how you're hanging around my desk and I don't get my work done, but I won't tell you about it. I won't talk to you about it.

Speaker 1: 33:10

I won't ask.

Speaker 2: 33:11

You've got 10 minutes and then I need to get back to work because I've got a family at home that's waiting for me and I need to be home at 6 o'clock tonight. Right, yeah, but that's what we do. We do that protest behavior around.

Speaker 1: 33:23

Yes.

Speaker 2: 33:24

Talking about it And the other person knows what's wrong with her today. Well, she's cranky. What's going on? I don't know what's going on here, but she gets up right.

Speaker 1: 33:35

And I've been on the other side of that too, where I think everything's just bubbling along nicely and all of a sudden someone explodes And they'll say something like you're mean to me, you don't respect me, you don't you know X, y and Z, and you feel so surprised and so attacked and so hurt because you had no idea any of this was going on.

Speaker 2: 33:58

Yes, and it catches you unaware because that's been bubbling inside of them and not been communicated what's happening? And then it builds inside of them, but it catches you unaware because you had no idea that this is going on inside And that hurts.

Speaker 1: 34:20

Well, it does, it does, it hurts, it hurts, both ends hurt And then you've got two hurt people trying to figure out where to go next. So what are some steps that you would recommend for people to take? you know, going forward, if they're going forward from this podcast today and there were two things that they should take away what would you consider those top two things to be?

Speaker 2: 34:45

I think the first thing is to not be afraid of conflict and to not be afraid of those pivotal conversations and to see them as healthy and good and to learn those skills for pivotal conversations. So remember that timing matters. Timing is important. You can have a good conversation at a very bad time when somebody's rushing out the door bad time. Late at night, bad time. Somebody trying to get a project done and they're on a deadline bad timing. But make conversation that needs to be had. So pay attention to that timing.

Speaker 2: 35:19

I would say learn those skills to be concise and to stick to the facts. That'll help you manage those emotions in the middle of the conversation And encourage you to learn the skills of being assertive. And when you can do that first C, of check emotions, then you're able to be assertive rather than attacking and rather than avoiding, you can actually express those feelings, those thoughts and those needs that you have. It sounds cliche, but using those I statements is so incredibly valuable, i feel. Yes, it's so incredibly valuable because it helps the other person to relax just a little bit. I know I'm in this pivotal conversation. It brings it, it rises the cortisol and it makes us all a little bit anxious because I don't know what's going to happen.

Speaker 2: 36:02

But when I use those I statements, i feel helps the other person to relax just a little bit, because it's about you rather. Oh okay, i'm not to blame here.

Speaker 1: 36:17

You're going to responsibility.

Speaker 2: 36:18

It really does help to use those I statements. So I for your people. Those three tips is to the mindset that it's okay to disagree, but there's a way to do it that will actually bring your closer together, even at work, to help you get on the same page, get your work done and get your job done. Be concise, stick to those facts to help you manage those emotions in the middle of the conversation. And then, last of all, be assertive. When you check emotions you can be assertive.

Speaker 2: 36:49

You can say what it is you're thinking and what it is you really want. Use those I statements to do that.

Speaker 1: 36:57

Those are fantastic tips.

Speaker 2: 36:59

Thank you so very much 42 years in and I said to him a while ago I'm so glad that you were willing to walk through the desert with me, because it was a desert.

Speaker 1: 37:08

It was hard.

Speaker 2: 37:09

It was up and down. It wasn't a fairy tale. It was up and down, it was hard, but we did it together. Sometimes I think we give up too soon. I say need to do the process, to know what you get in the end. Not all marriages can be saved. But I think many more could be saved if we're not be afraid to do the process, to walk through a difficult situation, to get to the other side to see what we really do have.

Speaker 2: 37:36

We don't know in the beginning until we start to learn those skills ourselves get on a personal growth journey yourself, Regardless of what the other person chooses you're better for in the end. I do know that one person can make a difference. I have seen it many times that one person, when they start working on themselves and they start getting better, If they're with a good person, that other person will come along. It's like changing the steps of the dance. When you change the steps of the dance, the other person starts to see oh okay, I need to start making some changes here too for the better. That can help the relationship in a credible way. I want to leave your people with hope for better relationships through healthier communication skills.

Speaker 1: 38:25

That's just, I think, a wonderful place to end for today. Thank you so very much. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show, Ann.

Speaker 2: 38:33

I have a free gift I would love to give your people. Is that okay, Amy? Yes, absolutely. We've been talking a lot about pivotal conversations and maybe someone in your audience has been putting off pivotal conversations that they know they need to have. I want to give you a free resource that can help you get ready. It's called the Seven Day Challenge.

Speaker 2: 38:55

Each day, I'll send out a short video with a simple action step, because I think action is so important. We can learn all and learn and learn and learn, but we don't actually take action and apply. We don't see the change we need. Each day, you'll get a short video with a simple action step so that you can, step by step, get ready for that next pivotal conversation. You can go from not knowing what to say or even how to approach that pivotal conversation to knowing exactly what it is you want to say and get ready for that next pivotal conversation. You can go to that Seven Day Challenge at forbetterforevercom forward slash challenge. That really is the best way to stay in touch with me, because from there you can sign up for our weekly email called the Tuesday Brew with Ann. That's where I share weekly communication tips to help you communicate in a way that aligns with your values, so that tomorrow we're happy with the way that you communicated today.

Speaker 1: 39:54

Wow, that's a huge gift. Thank you so much, ann, and I encourage everybody to take advantage of that if you've enjoyed what you've heard today. Ann is a speaker and a life coach and a trainer. You can find her at forbetterforevercom That's number four better number four ever dot com. All the links will be in the show notes. So thank you again, ann, and thanks to our audience. If you enjoyed listening today, go to wwwsavvycommunicatorcom. Become part of the conversation yourself. You can get in touch with Ann through the website and you can find more resources beyond the ones that Ann has so generously gifted to us today. So, ann, thank you again for being here today. I appreciate it so much.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Thanks, Amy. It's great to be here on the Save a Communicator podcast.

Speaker 1: 40:41

Thank you, i'm Amy Flanagan, your host, and we'll see you next time, everybody.