Ep 24: The five (5) growth stages of relationships -skipping them can be disadvantageous Feat Dr Stanley Mukolwe

In this episode we discuss the growth stages most relationships go through as they grow into the level of marriage.  Find out how even couples in seasoned marriages can end up being dysfunctional due to skipping some of the steps /stages that we discuss. 

Some marriages may have gone through these stages and the couples forgot what they are and begin to have resentment towards one another. Some relationships may also fall and in the process, the partners go through the same stages as others leading to extramarital affairs. 

Dr. Stanley Mukolwe of Raising Future Parents ministries https://raisingfutureparents.com/ holds down this discussion for us and we've got lots to learn. Listen in!

Transcript

 Welcome again to Umeshare podcast, the podcast where men share openly, and we are speaking to you from this side of Nairobi, Kenya. Thank you very much for those men who have been sending messages from Washington, from Australia, from Nigeria, from Johannesburg in South Africa, and to our Far East friends in Dubai and Qatar.

Thank you very much. We continue inspiring and continue, uh, creating these messages so that they can be able to reach as many men and families out there across the globe. Thank you for just being, um, a faithful listeners for those of you who've been with us, joining with us from episode one. Today we are in episode 24.

Can you imagine what a great achievement? And we are really proud of what this tool has been able to do out there. This, uh, day, we have Dr. Stanley Mukolwe, who's joined us, uh, is not new to you, for those who've been here with us from the beginning, and we are privileged to have you again here to be shared.

Thank you, Kevin. Thank you. Karibu sana. We, as always, we just want to, uh, say that we are happy to have you on the shows to share your wisdom, to share your experience, especially in the area of family ministry. And we know that you're doing a great work, uh, here at Raising Future Parents. So you could just introduce yourself and maybe just say something smaller.

What raising future parents do for those of you who have not met me, my name is Stanley. Been married to patients for the last 38 years. We have three children and two grandchildren. And as I serve as a field ministry partner with the Navigators in Africa, my assignment with the Navigators is to bring the advance of the gospel through the family.

And we formed Raising Future Parents as a tool through which we can deliver our seminars. People come to us with needs in marriage. They come to us with needs in child raising. They come to us with, uh, Yeah. Relational challenges. Yeah. They come to us asking, how do you talk to our children about sex? What do I do with my teenagers?

So we have a number of courses that we offer parents. Mm. The first course is called Raising Future Parents, which focuses on parents of children zero to 12. Mm-hmm. We meet for 12 weeks. Mm-hmm. And each meeting lasts three, about two to two and a half to three hours. Mm-hmm. . We, I give an interactive lecture.

I work with a team that does that. We get parents into small groups and we give content and discuss real life situations in parenting. Our second book is called Courageous Parenting. I know that one. That one focuses on parents of teenagers. And we actually want those with children just below the teenage years from 10, 11 upwards to come because nothing magical really happens at age 13.

But that transition becomes around age, that's about age nine, 10, 11. And they come in for six, sometimes we do seven sessions when we are coaching parents to understand their teenagers, to understand. What's going on in the heart of the teenager and to coach them to be able to raise them effectively To steer them through this stage of life.

Yeah, so they can emerge on the other side as adults Responsible adults. I must thank you for courageous parenting because we've been beneficiaries of it. Yes Sixteen year old daughter now. Yes. It's really a confusing age. Thanks to Courageous Parenting and a couple of other parents, we sat down and when they were sharing in their experiences with their teenagers, we're like, we're not alone.

Yes. We're not abnormal. So that's a, that's a good course that you're offering. The third one is, uh, we, we call it peers without pressure. Because we realize that as children grow, and especially become adolescents, the biggest negative influence on that child is the peer. So we have a course where we coach parents on how to disciple their children.

And how to reach out to the network of friends, the peers of those children and disciple them together. So that when they're together, they have similar values. And we teach from the Bible. We are very proud of the fact that we teach from the Bible. We want them to have biblical values and so that they can.

Go through positive pressure when one of them is going off track, the others can say, Hey, we're not with you on this. So we want to have peers without the pressure of peers. Peers without pressure. Peers without pressure. And that's a great one. I like the name. Yes. Um, and, and I know being a family ministry, there's also the issue of marriage.

Yes. There's the relationship of marriage. Um, and I think that's the. Crank of the conversations you're gonna have today. Yes, the five developments of our relationship. Yes, the stages of our relationship. Yes. Um, thank you so much for the work that you're doing at Raising Future Parents. And I think a big issue that many of the men will listen to this podcast.

Some are married. Those who are newly married, those who are probably doing teenage anniversaries like myself. I was celebrating 18 years this weekend with Shiko. Congratulations. Being married to Shiko with three lovely children. We really look forward to the small break we're going to take over this weekend.

But just for people like us to understand whether we've actually gone through those five. Stages. Kevin, you talk about five stages. There could be more. These five stages, we've realized that most relationships go through them before people get married. And, uh, I learned this wisdom from a man who died at age one or four.

His name was Jim Downing. And Jim and I spent some time together and Jim said to me Stan, the first stage that people go through before they really get to marriage, the stage of awareness. Stage of awareness. Awareness. You know, you can be a classmate with a woman, but you don't really, you're not aware of her.

She's there. You see her every day. Hi. Hi your lives go on. You're not aware that she exists Until you're given a project In a small group, and you begin to work with her in that small group, and suddenly you become aware of her. So she was there, but you didn't take notice of her. There was no reason to.

But because of close interaction, you become aware of her. Um, and when you do, you desire to get better acquainted. There are times you become aware of a person and you want nothing to do with them. Yeah. But, but, uh, when, when you get aware of them, you begin to do things together. You begin to admire how they do things.

You want to get better acquainted. Yeah. What you really wanted to do is to exchange value systems. And so you, you take them away from the small group, away from the crowd, and you want to meet with them one on one, maybe over a cup of coffee, maybe over dinner. You want to do it cautiously so that you don't push the relationship too quickly.

And you pretty much talk about each other. And as you're trying to understand who is this person, you understand who you are, you make up your mind whether or not you want to continue meeting them. Sometimes on that first meeting, you decide, I don't want to know them.

Um, but there are times that after the awareness stage and you begin to meet and begin to interact over life issues, over family issues, you begin to respect this person and that respect as a second stage of the relationship for respect for this other person. They may tell you, they may share with you what they consider is a horrible way to start knowing somebody.

They may tell you about their parents who died and how they stepped in. They're the ones who are paying school fees for their siblings and you think, wow. You are doing that, but they may share something about their lives that really makes you respect them. Say, wow, people go through stuff and it doesn't show on your face.

You do all that. You carry all that. So you respect them. You respect them. And I think that first phase of awareness is, uh, you said it's exchanging value systems, more or less like data collection because we're trying to collect data. You're dating, but not quite just collecting data. And then that's trying to See how, whether this person fits in with your values, I think that's what you're  data you've processed it and you start respecting them for the things they have done or who they are. Yes. And mutual respect is a foundation for lifelong relationships. You know, we often talk in marriage about the, uh, wife respecting her husband, but you know, That's true. In Ephesians 5 and verse 21, it says submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

There's a of a mutual respect. And that verse comes in before wives submit to husbands, wives respect your husbands. It comes in before there's a mutual submission. This is a body of Christ verse, not just a marriage verse. And it's easy to do that when you're dating. Yes. Then when you enter into marriage, I don't know whether that's a mutual submission is it, it doesn't come easily for some of the men because probably of the way they've seen, uh, their fathers to their wives, but that's a, that's a different topic anyway, but yes.

So respect, when you begin to respect someone, you want to know them about a bit for a bit more. And that leads us to the third stage, the stage of admiration. You admire them, you admire them. You see more in this person than you see in other people. And these first three stages of awareness, respect, admiration, this can take place at the place of work.

Um, with no romance in it, you can admire the way your boss handled a difficult situation. You can admire the way a particular worker put in so much time to get the deadline to be met. You can admire somebody. You can respect them for their ability to overcome challenges for their resilience. So awareness, admiration, and respect can happen in a neighborhood, in a place of work with no romance in it.

That's interesting. So that means there's a crop of people who actually skip and go to the romance. Yes. Before even they experience admiration. Exactly. And many of those people are lasting for one another. They last for one another. You don't want that. But when there's clean admiration, it leads to affection.

You don't want to cross that line in the place of work. You don't want to cross to the neighborhood. This now becomes intentional. Because in affection, stage four, there is a fondness for one another. You are fond of them. There is a warmth. Towards one another. There is a care for one another. Yeah. Um, it's, it's come from noticing to, to affection.

You say things to one another that makes you long to see each other. And this leads to stage five, which is love. And when love begins to grow, there's a chemistry that happens between the two that overrides logical reasoning. You know when she asks you, can we meet, uh, at Galleria at five? And, uh, the Matatus on strike.

It's raining. Yeah. Somehow you find yourself there. The man will show up. The man will show up. You walk. You walk. Nothing is going to it. Yeah. But you go. You climb mountains. You will be there. Yeah. There is no logic. It's irrational. It's illogical. But there's a blend of chemistry. And I'm calling it chemistry.

Because I don't really know what else to call it. call it. Yeah. That's chemistry. Yeah. And probably show up with a gift. Maybe some bouquet of flowers or something. Exactly. Yeah. So that's love. That's love. And you know, the Bible describes in Proverbs 30 in verse 19, it describes four things that are hard to understand.

The first is the way of an eagle in the sky. How it can glide in the sky without being blown off by the wind. It takes advantage of the currents of the wind and glides in there. The way of the eagle in the sky. The way of a, of a ship in the sea. These, I mean the ships can be very large, but like a drop in the ocean, in a large ocean.

But sometimes the... Maneuver their way through the sea. In the olden days when ships were, had sails, you can set your sail to cock the wind to take it in the right direction. And that's, that's quite a wonder. The third one is the way of a stake. On a rock. This thing has no legs, but it can climb up, climb up the rocks.

That's something to wonder about. The way they defy gravity. Yes, yes. Steep 60 degree rocks. Yeah. But the fourth one is the way of a man with a maiden.

There's a chemistry there that you're thinking, you can't quite put it to words, but when love kicks in, it's illogical. It's irrational, but there's a bond that develops for that bond to develop. There was an admiration, there was a respect, there was affection before it comes to that. When you skip those places, the love can be quite fake.

You can call it love, butit's not the way of a man and a woman. Yes. Being a mystery. Being a mystery. When the disciples heard what Barak should look like, they said to the Lord, in that case, it's better not to marry. There's more problems. There's more problems. But... There are strong marriages and I've been married 38 years, I can tell you, yeah, people say, you know, to be honest, I don't familiar my wife.

I enjoy her. Yeah. Yeah. She's a great woman. Daktari, my, parents are married 53 years. Hmm. Married, still together. And I, sometimes I see them seated together and just drawn in their own company, oblivious of everyone who's around them. Yeah. And I look at my wife and I say, I, I, I desire that. I think that's what you're saying, that, that, that love becomes, I think that's the first cognizance that it becomes unconditional.

Yes. And sacrificial at the same time. That it will lead this man to go to Galeria for that date, despite all the obstacles that are along the way. Yes. Absolutely. Cause he has a deeper longing, um, to be with this person whom he loves. And Kevin, in Kenya, we have some challenges during the time of politics with a different tribe taking different sides.

Yes. But when it comes to marriage, you'll find that The man and the woman getting married may be from two politically different camps, but love overrides it. Love overrides it. And they're probably enemies. Yeah. They dislike each other, politically. Politically, they dislike each other, but if they love one another, somehow they are able to override it.

So there's no logic to it. When the chemistry is there, you can scale a mountain. You can scale a mountain. And so, when a marriage struggles. You have to ask yourself, what did you respect and admire about the other person? Talking to men, what did you respect and admire about your wife before you married her?

If you can note that down, and then ask the question. What caused the respect to deteriorate? Because before marriage has issues in it. Yeah Respect and admiration begins to deteriorate The question is can respect and admiration be restored? Can it be restored? If it can, It's a good question. It's a wonderful thing.

But if it can't That relationship is in bad shape. It's in bad shape. There's a high risk of an affair in that relationship. There's a high risk of separation. Yes. There's a high risk of divorce. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. But in asking those questions, many times, When the marriage is not going well, we like to point fingers.

You want to say, why don't you respect me these days? I've learned over the last 38 years not to do that. Rather than asking, why don't you respect me? You'd rather ask, what have I done? That has made me lose respect in your eyes. That requires a lot of humility. Requires humility. Some wisdom. It requires for you to think that the problem is not always on the other side.

I could be the cause of the problem. And be an aware of it. I love that question. It's introspective. Yes. At the same time, allowing the other person to process with you why you feel. And when you ask it that way, the person has a permission, your permission, because you've asked them, what have I done? Yeah.

That has made you do respect for me. They may say, Hey, it's nothing you have done, but it opens up the conversation. Yeah. And a secure environment was probably the security. Exactly. Exactly. And if they point at what it is, you can actually say, what do I need to do to restore that respect? Finger pointing at self.

Yeah. That doesn't mean that you're taking responsibility for all the issues in the marriage, but you're framing the question in such a way that you can get answers. Yes. If you're always pointing fingers, you keep on alienating yourself from the person. That you are aware of, that you admired, that you respected, that you are affectionate for, that you loved.

And you don't really want to create unnecessary distance with that person. Remember men, if you had not married that woman, you know, someone else could have married her.

The men don't like hearing that. I've heard that many times before, but it still doesn't sink in properly. Someone else could have married that chico. Imagine. Someone else could have taken care of her. She might be a very happy woman. But you made her pregnant. And then she's raising your children. Yeah.

Just love her. Just take care of her. Yeah. Whatever issues there are, let's work through them. Yeah. Let this marriage work. Let this marriage work. Yeah. You know, Dr. You mentioned it's very, very A good, uh, is it a trajectory or a good build up towards loving one another, especially from the wives and the husbands.

And I know there are many men who are listening who are there, they're married. And that question that you've asked, are there things that I may have done myself that has caused this? Uh, reaction from your way of you not showing me respect, I think for me is a clincher of this discussion because it requires a lot of humility and also a self denial of wanting to be understood.

Yes. And just say, I want you to understand my spouse better. Why is she reacting this way? Why is she angered? Um, I mean, I, I, I find sometimes you, you're in a position where you're always asking for forgiveness, saying, sorry. And, uh, once I was in a discussion with some fellow men and he was saying, I'm always apologizing, always apologizing.

Is there something that I've not done right or is it, is it that, um, they're seeing only the wrong in me? Can't they see that I'm working hard, providing, taking care of the kids, taking them for holidays, listening to them, uh, whenever they ask for whatever it is. So the men are actually really trying to do their part, but they still feel misunderstood.

Yes. I think that question really. Uh, is it opens up a Pandora's box that maybe the men have never seen. Um, and that's, that's a good question to ask. What have I done that has made me lose respect in my son? What can I do?

It's a good question. Two months ago, we were with other friends, other couples, two other couples, and we had an aha moment after a very deep dinner that we had, we had, and I think the guys in the group were reporting one another, the wives were reporting the husbands, and the husbands were reporting their wives.

So it's an accountability group. And one of the things that, um, we discovered after the meeting was that we were not appreciating each other enough, we were not affirming each other enough, we were not, uh, saying things to one another that made us respect, uh, spouses. And so one of the sentences that we came up with.

That evening we were at a restaurant and we were almost being kicked out because we had overstayed. So I came up with a sentence and I said, For Shiku, what is the thing that I see in you that I appreciate? What is that thing? What is the woman that I see in you? And so the sentence would go something like, Shiko, the woman that I see in you is a loving, a caring, and a hardworking woman.

And for a very long time, that's not something that she had had. It was often assumed. How did her countenance change? It changed. She lit up. She lit up. And now when it was a time to say the words back to me, the man that I see, Kevin, is one, two, three things, it really encouraged me. And then from that point of encouragement, from that foundation, you can then talk about the challenges.

Okay. But many, many marriages you sweep the good things under the carpet, You never mention them. You only talk about the challenges and in some relationships, they don't want to talk about the challenges. They just move on. They, they're angry. The most common emotion in many men in marriage is anger. And, uh, some people stuff it in and just walk away.

Some of them explode and spew on their wives and they feel better because they've spewed out their anger. But they've just made their wife very, very angry. And, uh, the tensions begin to, you know, begin to emerge in that marriage. And very soon, one or both parties begin to find... Begin to become aware of somebody else out of the marriage.

They begin to admire somebody else out of the marriage. They begin to respect somebody else out of the marriage. The cycle

begins to take place. The marriage is in place, but this cycle of the five stages of the relationship begins to take place elsewhere. And those are the building blocks of an affair. Wow. I think that's a very good place to pause because we're going to come maybe next week to discuss now those, uh, stumbling blocks that will cause the affairs, the different scenarios and the things that will lead to that.

Yes. And any one of us. Hmm. Is, uh, susceptible. You have to be aware of it. And guard against it. Any one of us. Any one. The moment you say it can never happen to me, you become target number one. God, God, God, it's only God who knows the story and you'll save us. Yes. Yeah. We must do everything possible not to get into it, but we must never, no matter how long you've had your marriage or that affair, that alone is not proof that you'll never have one.

So you must always be on guard. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Dr. Lee, as always, uh, this is such a privilege to have, uh, had you over and just to listen to these five stages of a relationship, of developing a relationship. And um, thank you so much for those being able to share that. I believe you as a man out there. Even the ladies, you've been able to hear the five stages and you probably just need to retrace your footsteps again and try to ask those questions.

Remember the deep question that we asked earlier in the show. So we believe that we'll continue discussing this topic and next week we're going to look at the different scenarios or the stumbling blocks then, if not looked after, will then develop into an affair. Yes. and divorces, the things that would cause this kind of dysfunctional relationships to happen.

Asante Daktari for coming over. Thank you, Kevin. As always. You gave me a chance to share. Yes, share deeply, deeply. Um, thank you guys. And I'll see you next week. You've been listening to Umeshare, where men share openly. Bye bye. Bye.