Pouring Possibilities: Meagen Anderson's Journey from Beer to AFNA and Cannabis Beverage Innovations

📢I talk🎙️with Meagen Anderson who has had a significant and transformative journey, both personally and professionally.

Her initiative in founding the AFicioNAdo Certification Program, focusing on Alcohol-Free and Non-Alcoholic (AFNA) beverages, reflects the growing demand for alternatives in the beverage industry.

Her involvement with🌿 Hop Forward Consulting, which specializes in sustainable business solutions in brewing, non-alcoholic beer, hops, hemp, and cannabis applications showcases a commitment to diverse and innovative areas within the industry. 

The personal aspect of her journey, separating from alcohol and embracing a "journey to creativity and heightened consciousness," adds a unique dimension to her story. 

Meagen's journey is a testament to adaptation, resilience, and innovation in an evolving industry. Her experiences could provide valuable insights for others navigating similar paths or looking to explore new opportunities within the beverage sector.

Mentors
Jim Koch, John Geist, Leigh Gall, Grant Wood, Dr Bill Simpson, Dr Keith Villa, his wife Jodi, and daughter Catherine, Lisa Hurwitz and Joe Reynolds

Resources
This Naked Mind by Annie Grace, Good Beer Hunting, One Year No Beer,
Transcendental Meditation,  Enneagram 

#MeditationJourney #AlcoholFreeLife #CreativityUnleashed
#zeroproof

NOW ON YOUTUBE!!! Thank you for Listening! Join us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter!

Host Jessie Ott's Profile on LinkedIn

Transcript

00:00:03:12 - 00:00:29:15
Jessie
Welcome to Thursday, Thursdays at 3 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. My name is Jessica, the host of this podcast, which is all about beverage innovation. I talk with innovation pioneers from agriculture to glass. Hello, everybody, and welcome to our next guest, Meagen Anderson, the founder of AFicioNAdo Certification program, as well as Hop Forward Consulting. I cannot wait for you to listen to her story on this podcast.

00:00:29:16 - 00:00:55:07
Jessie
It's very transformative and informational. She's done a lot of self-help work and shares a ton of resources and a lot of mentors that were important to her in her life. If anyone out there is looking for support to potentially switch off alcohol, whether it be temporary or whether it be for health reasons or whether it be any other reason, she's certainly understands the journey and is open to connecting with you and helping you find the way through your new path.

00:00:55:12 - 00:01:17:19
Jessie
Meagen is an amazing person. She's super bright, super fun, and I love what she's doing for the industry. I hope you enjoy the episode as much as I do. Thank you for listening and be sure to subscribe to be notified of all new episodes. Hello everybody, and welcome to Thursday. Thursday. My name is Jessica and I have Meagen Anderson here today.

00:01:17:19 - 00:01:19:13
Jessie
Hey, Meagen, how are you today?

00:01:19:15 - 00:01:22:00
Meagen
I'm great, Jessie. Thanks for having me.

00:01:22:02 - 00:01:32:04
Jessie
Yeah, no, I'm super excited. I just met you, like, a couple few weeks ago, and I love what you're doing. I can't wait to dig into it. So where are you calling from?

00:01:32:05 - 00:01:46:11
Meagen
Yeah, Today I'm at home in Franklin Grove, Illinois. Beautiful place in Central Illinois, but been on the road a little bit this week and spend my time typically between Kalamazoo, Michigan, and here in central Illinois.

00:01:46:13 - 00:01:54:02
Jessie
Nice couple of beautiful areas, I'm sure. yeah. So where are you from originally?

00:01:54:04 - 00:02:21:01
Meagen
Yeah, I'm actually from this area in Illinois. I've my careers taken me around the country. Just I was with I'm kind of from Illinois, spent the first, you know, birth till college here. Then I moved to Texas for about nine years or so. So I lived all over Texas working in the craft beer brewing industry. And from Texas, I moved to Massachusetts.

00:02:21:03 - 00:02:47:09
Meagen
From there, I went to Indiana. For a few years I lived in southwest Idaho and then Michigan, Michigan and Illinois. So, yeah, I've been all the industry has taken me a lot of different places, which has been really wonderful. And I wasn't really classically trained to do any of these things. I my background in education is in international politics, but I actually just completed my my MBA in sustainability this June.

00:02:47:09 - 00:03:06:21
Meagen
So I finally, finally found a way to make it all come together. But yeah, from the from the Midwest area. My mom worked in juvenile detention. My dad was a basically worked at an agricultural wholesalers. They sold fertilizer, bulk fuel, oil, things like that. So yeah, I grew up detasseling corn, if you know what that is.

00:03:06:23 - 00:03:10:10
Jessie
yes, I did the same thing. I'm from Iowa, so I guess.

00:03:10:11 - 00:03:28:11
Meagen
It's like a rite of passage in in the Midwest. That was that was my first job was do testing for sexually how I met I met my husband when we were very young. We played a lot of basketball in the Midwest. You played basketball or soccer and you did household. That's what you did for fun. So we turned.

00:03:28:12 - 00:03:42:19
Meagen
We were able to convert that into something, you know, very meaningful as we got older. But yeah, it's Illinoisan been great to me and my a lot of my family still lives here, but have had the pleasure of living in so many beautiful places.

00:03:42:21 - 00:03:56:00
Jessie
I have not been to central Illinois. I've been to Chicago, of course, but I know people that live in Michigan, you know, where you kind of live part time is beautiful up there. And I hope to get up there someday.

00:03:56:02 - 00:04:21:01
Meagen
Well, you're totally invited. And there's of many there's so it's got such great culture for our business, you know, for the things that you and I are particularly interested in, the people that are probably listening today. I mean, Michigan and we were just in Wisconsin yesterday. What an amazing area and region for, you know, alcoholic. And now we'll just say alcohol free and non alcoholic beverage because of the innovation that's come along with it.

00:04:21:01 - 00:04:52:10
Meagen
So yesterday, for example, I was in I was in Wisconsin and I went to a brewery they're called octopi and they have an amazing craft brewery. AAM they also make THC beverages they're and then they also make they have a very large vacuum rectification unit so they make some of the best nonalcoholic beers I've ever had. They make a chocolate s'mores stout that's really good they make a my gosh like a like a mexican lager an Italian pilsner that's really good.

00:04:52:10 - 00:05:23:14
Meagen
And I got the pleasure to speak with their president Isaac yesterday when I was in there. And I'm like, you know, you guys are just probably the most underrated, you know, any brewery in the country. I just think their products are so good and the technology is so good. And there was so much we just discussed, so much opportunity, the basics of how much sales are just doing of this up at the taproom in the Midwest in a many ways, you know, starting with modules being made by a nicer bush in St Louis in the nineties I think really is it played a really we just are a big drinking culture here, big beer culture,

00:05:23:14 - 00:05:42:08
Meagen
big wine and spirits culture all kind of do this Midwest region which dates back to immigration in this area really in the in the 19th century. And I mean a lot of immigrants from Germany and from Ireland in Central Europe that kind of came into this Midwest region of the US because it reminded them of their motherland. Right.

00:05:42:08 - 00:06:03:09
Meagen
You know, the Rhine region and Ohio. And then you go to places in Wisconsin and there's a lot of names that are kind of referring to the Rhine Valley region and Michigan in particular when it comes to spirits and the ability to grow on this. You're basically in a mediterranean type environment because you're surrounded by water, but it's cold, so you have a lot of seasonality.

00:06:03:09 - 00:06:28:09
Meagen
But the growing seasons and the richness of the soil there, there's some of the best soil on the earth is here for growing and producing, you know, agriculture, as you know, from Iowa. So we have this band, I guess, of like really rich soil that came from really the recession of the great Lakes and the early glacial periods have really kind of allowed us to be blessed with this just amazing region.

00:06:28:09 - 00:06:53:05
Meagen
And it's cool because as Kraft grew, these small businesses like begin to pop up. So really like the last 15 years, I think they've just been really transformational. And now we have technology and changing consumer behavior, which is why I'm here to tell you this. And so, yeah, a long way of saying like the I'm from the Midwest originally, but it's just a great place to stay because it keeps me really connected to the things that I love to do and people that I love.

00:06:53:05 - 00:07:13:18
Jessie
Yeah, that was a really awesome explanation of the soil and the agricultural region of the Midwest. I really like that. I haven't thought of it like that before, you know, because you're from there. But you know, I love how passionate you are because, you know, I it's too cold for me. I can't. Yeah, so I know. I know.

00:07:13:18 - 00:07:23:03
Jessie
Such a wimp. I mean, it was I hear you say I'm even cold in Florida. It's just ridiculous to say that out loud, you know?

00:07:23:05 - 00:07:39:19
Meagen
Well, I live in the sun. I live in the snows. You know, like, thankfully, the cost of of access, like those is really gone has become more affordable for the layman these days. So we know the gym we go to has a sauna. I have a sauna blanket at home. I try to I try to really embrace that.

00:07:39:19 - 00:07:59:12
Meagen
Like Norwegian. I'm Swedish, you know, sort of embracing this sort of part of my own history. That's like, okay, it's cold and I'm miserable right now because I'd much rather live in Hawaii or something, but. Or Puerto Rico. But since I can't, I'll just sweat it out by the fire. And that seems to be as long as I have something good to drink and good food and good company, you know it.

00:07:59:14 - 00:08:16:21
Meagen
Or a good book or something. Good fire, I'll get through it. But yeah, there's it's, it's, it's something for sure. But yeah, I've also had the pleasure, like I said, of experiencing winter in different parts of the country and they all have something special to offer. But the Midwest is just where my family is and it feels good to be able to hop in the car and go see.

00:08:17:00 - 00:08:17:22
Jessie
Yeah, that is nice.

00:08:18:03 - 00:08:25:12
Meagen
You know, go do things with my family. And that that was pretty hard before. So yeah, I'm really, really fortunate to have made my way back here.

00:08:25:12 - 00:08:45:10
Jessie
Yeah, that's great, because you get to experience all different areas of the country. That's really cool. Well, Texas can it gets cold, but depending on where you are, it can. It's not too bad. And you can have your cold days, but then you get your warm day and you don't know if it's going to, you know, rain or snow or be 80 degrees on Christmas.

00:08:45:10 - 00:08:47:02
Jessie
It's so weird.

00:08:47:04 - 00:09:01:22
Meagen
Dallas especially, you know, Dallas is just that one like wild card. But I lived I lived in DFW, like I lived in Fort Worth for a while. I lived in Dallas twice, actually. Then I moved down to San Antonio. I lived two years in San Antonio and one year in Austin.

00:09:01:22 - 00:09:02:22
Jessie
Wow. Okay.

00:09:03:00 - 00:09:21:12
Meagen
When I was working for Samuel Adams, so I kind of moved all over and sort of helped build up Texas, built relationships, the beer wholesalers down there. And I mean, I was at one point covering everything south of Austin all the way to the Mexico border and then all the way out to El Paso, then all of Texas and Louisiana and Mississippi as well.

00:09:21:12 - 00:09:27:04
Meagen
So I think there was like 48 beer distributors in my network at that time. So it was it was big.

00:09:27:06 - 00:09:34:23
Jessie
Yeah. I was going to say like gives me a headache thinking about all those people you have to manage. that's so hard.

00:09:35:01 - 00:10:02:04
Meagen
Yeah, it was a lot. It was. It was a lot. But it was fun because I got to drive all over Texas and that part of the country is so unusual. And like, Big Bend National Park is so awesome and like, yeah, Marfa, Texas. I mean, just these weird places that I found that are so special to me now and like, so yeah, I just would have never thought like when I lived there, you know, craft beer wasn't a thing yet, so I was still this would have been like 2008.

00:10:02:05 - 00:10:22:19
Meagen
So I'd be going into places in San Antonio, like one bar at a time with like a Sam Adams trying to tell them why they should take off one of their five most domestic beers and add a craft beer on tap to, like, increase the revenue. You know, one bar at a time. And like, slowly we won them over, you know, and started and started getting them to put it on the menu and then actually suggest to having it with food.

00:10:22:19 - 00:10:26:20
Meagen
And it was a really it was a really exciting time, too.

00:10:26:22 - 00:10:29:13
Jessie
Wow, That's so interesting.

00:10:29:15 - 00:10:49:16
Meagen
Yeah. To come when you talk about compare it to wine and spirits especially, I feel like craft beer has a place there now. Like we we did a lot of great work during that period of like eight to like 2016, which was just really, really focus on like accelerating the, the visibility and availability of our brands in those spaces and creating opportunities.

00:10:49:16 - 00:11:25:16
Meagen
And then it just so perfectly transitioned, although not really meaning it to, you know, we had kind of just a stable continual rise of beer. And then when COVID hit, we've just seen this massive transformation of this very, very large cohort of drinkers, both in beer and in wine and spirits. And I think that's just it's I am just so thrilled because looking at the history of my career, which we can go over and it's like I'm meeting more new people now and it's like starting a whole second career, but still in the same industry, if that makes any sense.

00:11:25:19 - 00:11:26:05
Jessie
100.

00:11:26:05 - 00:11:51:17
Meagen
Percent. Because people that are attracted to the to this category of alcohol free and nonalcoholic, which I call after, just to be just to be concise. But the ethnic category, there's seems to be a few hundred people that are really dedicated to understanding the space and the consumer and like driving category growth in North America. And I and there's brands now from all over the world kind of starting to filter through that ecosystem.

00:11:51:17 - 00:12:17:08
Meagen
So it's so interesting because I feel like, yeah, I'm a dinosaur in our industry, but I've never met Jesse, you know? So it's like it's kind of cool because I'm meeting brand new people and that's very fulfilling because it's nice to be able to bring your history and your experience and when it's personal because like in my case, I, I transform my relationship with alcohol and stopped stopped drinking alcohol four years ago.

00:12:17:08 - 00:12:45:15
Meagen
So there's this personal aspect to to it and still like a deep passion and love for the process of beer making and winemaking and how we can construct a beautiful cocktail that's zero proof. So I mean, it's just every day I wake up and I'm like, how this even happened? You know, it's just so leaned in and challenging because it's like you lean in and you're do we're doing all the same things we did back in eight, But we're doing it in a more competitive marketplace.

00:12:45:15 - 00:13:09:00
Meagen
And essentially I'm one of my professors. So beautifully said this. He goes, Every textbook you ever read on business that was written before COVID, you should throw away like you actually, there was so much that changed the way that people think about what the how they choose to consume and purchase with e-commerce and, you know, the home and sort of safety and wellbeing and moderation.

00:13:09:00 - 00:13:33:02
Meagen
Like he's like we just don't even know what the application of this knowledge will lead to because in technology itself, it's just changed so much and had so much influence on this entire art and the entire way we go about selling and producing anything. So it's been a really interesting growth period. And I it's not like I am a dinosaur, but, you know, I'm not in a 40 year career, you know, I'm in a 20 year career.

00:13:33:02 - 00:13:45:15
Meagen
So in two decades, to see what it was like to be in CPG and manufacturing and you know, the buy and make sell model to now, I never I think it's just something I never would have anticipated.

00:13:45:17 - 00:14:12:18
Jessie
Yeah, that's a really good point. pre-COVID versus post-COVID, I guess we are you don't think about it on a day to day basis like that. But I guess overall, you know, the first I think the first year people like probably drank too much. And then after that, they're like, no, I can't do this anymore, you know, because it was just such a confusing, weird, bizarre, like time to not be able to leave your house and go anywhere.

00:14:12:18 - 00:14:31:23
Jessie
So yeah, that's actually very interesting. And yeah, probably very, very true that it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next few years. But yeah, that's that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So what was your first career, the first job you had in the industry? Did you jump in right away or.

00:14:32:01 - 00:15:01:01
Meagen
No, I didn't. After I graduated from Northern Illinois University in four and I went to work. Actually, this is kind of funny and also but also true, I worked for Philip morris USA, so I worked for Marlboro Cigarets. I represented like they called it. We have these massive portfolio brands or a Fortune for a company that owned SAB Miller when I worked for them and I managed a really large territory outside Chicago, I didn't, which is a very interesting because tobacco just presented the was not what I thought it would be doing.

00:15:01:01 - 00:15:19:14
Meagen
I was working for a state House representative in Illinois as an intern and wanted to go get my master's degree and just needed money. So I found CPG to be a place where I could leverage my desire to be out being social and interacting with people, but also the ability to influence people and educate. So I was very attracted to that.

00:15:19:14 - 00:15:43:06
Meagen
So I started as a in the tobacco industry and then I moved into the craft brewing industry after that in about seven. And then I been really been in that ecosystem ever since I worked for Samuel Adams for Boston Beer from 7 to 2006. And I did a lot of roles there. I started in Texas as an account manager and then took on a district and then a region and then a national role and moved to Boston.

00:15:43:06 - 00:16:04:02
Meagen
And I was beer education manager for ARCA and that was a really amazing and incredible experience, mainly because of the culture of Boston beer. And I think what you'll find is as you do more podcasts, inevitably when you interview another person that work there, they'll say what I said that that companies very special and how it's you know it's over 50% women.

00:16:04:03 - 00:16:21:08
Meagen
It was co-founded by a woman, Rhonda Kelman, who had a lot of influence on building the sales force there. And a lot of the reason why they're 50% women in their sales force. So, you know, not to say that the company doesn't have any opportunities, but it's just special and unique. And the way that they treat their employees and create opportunity.

00:16:21:08 - 00:16:41:11
Meagen
And certainly for me, coming in and not even knowing what craft beer was to leading all of your education for the company, for the United States, was so such a great just explanation of how they can transform people's careers. So I received a lot of training when I was there. We had a for a sales team of about 300 at the time.

00:16:41:11 - 00:16:43:22
Meagen
We spent over $2 million a year on training.

00:16:43:22 - 00:16:44:11
Jessie
Wow.

00:16:44:15 - 00:17:03:02
Meagen
Which is people would ask us all the time, like, why would you spend? They would ask Jim Koch, the founder this, Why would you spend so much money to train people if they could just go get a job somewhere else and leave? And this is like this is maybe not unique to him. I believe somebody else said this, but he would say this response all the time.

00:17:03:02 - 00:17:21:20
Meagen
He would say, well, that's great, but what if I don't train them and they decide to stay and work here their entire career? Because there's a difference. You you don't want people just to not be developed and then they stay and they're not you know, they're not able to train. It's better to let people know that the grass may not be greener and give them everything you got.

00:17:21:20 - 00:17:40:03
Meagen
And I feel that Boston beer did that. You know, I accelerated my career because just by virtue of my life, I was able to raise my hand and move a lot. And I just provided a lot of new opportunities. I went to UC Davis and I did the brewing program there. I went to I took sensory classes, I got certified Cicerone.

00:17:40:03 - 00:18:01:14
Meagen
I'm a certified CP judge, all things that were supported by Boston Beer. And my last role there was very interesting. I was able to be a part of a really cool project with the first craft brewery in the United States. We rebuilt that and reboot Re brewed that brand for the first time since 1978, and then we gave that company back to the man and his daughter who owned it.

00:18:01:14 - 00:18:25:07
Meagen
Originally in Boston. Beer had bought it when the trademark became available. So we found that guy in my homebrew club. That's cool project. That was really fun. And then it was so fun. And then I moved to Boston and built this little scrappy team with a couple really great young men, and I built a training program for beer distributors and for all of our national retailer partners for our national account team.

00:18:25:07 - 00:18:46:05
Meagen
So we would travel the country and we as a Boston beer team would sample them, I would say like 40 beers over the course of two days, like, but only maybe like three of them would be Sam Adams. Like they were meant to be stylistic trainings and teaching at this time, you know, and like 2013 to 2016, like people weren't being taught to sell a portfolio in that way.

00:18:46:05 - 00:19:07:09
Meagen
We really like train them how to pass the Cicerone test. But through the lens of like, here's how you can portfolio sell based on style and premiumization and the specialty nature of the in brewing especially, it's like bread making. It's like, here's the special process that goes into producing these beers and flavors. So we did that. We trained almost 8000 wow years.

00:19:07:11 - 00:19:27:18
Meagen
It was just awesome, just incredible. And so I still I still run into people like beer distributors are out and about at conferences are like, you were in my you trained me, you know, in 20 2014 and you know, and I was like, yeah, that's wonderful. So we we had really a good a good internal team of trainers that had amassed a lot of material.

00:19:27:18 - 00:19:41:19
Meagen
And then I just sort of took took what was the best there is created some things on my own and then just went out and I didn't know what I was doing and I had no training. Being a professional trainer, but, you know, just loved people and was able to kind of just go do it and it was great.

00:19:41:19 - 00:20:01:11
Meagen
So I did that and then I went into the hops industry for a while. So then I moved to Idaho and helped open a hop processing facility with the great granddaughter of the Albertson's family. Her name is Jamie Scott. Their family owns a bunch of businesses in Idaho, and she became involved in the hops industry in Idaho is the second largest hop growing region in the United States.

00:20:01:12 - 00:20:01:23
Jessie
Makes sense.

00:20:02:04 - 00:20:26:11
Meagen
And there's many sixth generation six generation hop farms out there. It's high desert. It's like perfect growing conditions. They grow really great hops. They're they're a very independent group of growers. So I went out and helped start up this peloton facility and processing facility for hops called Mill 95. And we grew that business. We grew that business pretty rapidly over the course of about 18 months.

00:20:26:11 - 00:20:52:10
Meagen
And then I went and moved, relocated to Michigan and got into hop extracts. Then I started selling like sustainable extracts just and then I was making beers with like Anheuser-Busch and MillerCoors and big craft breweries with log Anita's and Heineken. And what I noticed was they were focusing their innovation efforts on making things like hop waters and CBD waters and nonalcoholic beers.

00:20:52:10 - 00:21:06:09
Meagen
And at that time, Anheuser-Busch said to us, and this is knowledge because they had put this in their annual reports, but they said like by 2026 or 2027, I believe that 20% of their global revenue would come from N.A..

00:21:06:11 - 00:21:07:11
Jessie
Wow.

00:21:07:13 - 00:21:24:12
Meagen
And I and this was in 2019, like before COVID. And I just kept thinking like they already see this coming. And they were, you know, making references to things like make Ultra, you know, things that were like very low carb or like low carb and Quito and fasting were sort of like the wellness trend was starting again because people were aware, yeah.

00:21:24:17 - 00:21:42:16
Meagen
And then when COVID hit, it just accelerated it and it changed the the culture of how people purchase and consume. And then we and then now we're in the ozone back days and like, you know, this totaled shift of what people are willing to do to kind of take control of their health and get themselves to where they want to be.

00:21:42:16 - 00:22:03:04
Meagen
So all of these things really helped me grow to what I'm doing now. And I worked for New Zealand Hops as well. So I represented New Zealand in the U.S. for a while. I worked in the adult use cannabis industry in Michigan, doing some consulting, but always with a focus on beverage like unique and innovative beverage formulation sensory training.

00:22:03:04 - 00:22:32:21
Meagen
But I'm a salesperson by nature, right? So I can I can develop businesses. And so I developed a consulting firm in 2016 called Hop Forward Consulting and post-COVID. I saw the emergence of this hemp derived THC category, which is basically why you can walk into a grocery store these days and see THC drink on the shelf. So the 2018 Farm Bill had allowed that, and then it was not that it wasn't sort of modified during this last round of legislation.

00:22:32:21 - 00:22:54:14
Meagen
So now in 38 states, thc derived from hemp can be purchased in the traditional retailer. So I've been taking companies that want to transition their businesses in from maybe marijuana inputs, which had to be sold in a dispensary to hemp inputs and can be sold through a traditional wholesaler network. So I've got a bunch of clients and I've been working on that.

00:22:54:16 - 00:23:29:02
Meagen
Then I developed Interesting the world's first professional beverage training and certification program called a Fizzy enoughto which is meant to give people like a cicerone or some level training on alcohol free and nonalcoholic beer, wine, spirits and cannabis beverage because these are either alcohol alternatives or something meant to be an analog log of of an alcoholic product for somebody who can't drink alcohol for whatever reason, maybe you're on a weight loss drug, maybe you are trying to enhance your performance, but you still want to be social and have a drink.

00:23:29:04 - 00:23:53:17
Meagen
Now, these this category really provides a lot of opportunities. So I feel that this has been one of the greatest opportunities I've uncovered in my career, primarily because at the end of 2019, I stopped drinking alcohol myself. I was definitely for many years, over two decades consuming over the recommended amount daily. It was having a very negative impact on my mental health and my physical health as a mom.

00:23:53:19 - 00:24:09:10
Meagen
And I just really I could not moderate just that, you know, I struggled to have just one. I couldn't for whatever reason, I'm not wired that way. And I would try to quit and I couldn't. And I'd feel like I'd just end up over consuming more. And it was a really dark period for a while. I just didn't.

00:24:09:10 - 00:24:27:17
Meagen
I was kind of secretly struggling because I am getting paid this great money to fly around the country and teach people about beer. And every night I felt so awful and sick and every morning just trying to get myself excited to go to work again became difficult for me. And then even after I left a brewery, I still struggled to manage my consumption.

00:24:27:17 - 00:24:45:19
Meagen
So and then I knew it wasn't a job. I knew it was me and found it, didn't know what to do. And I was very I'm very prideful, so I was secretive and didn't really tell people I needed help. And then I was able to I got my medical cannabis license at the end of 2019 in Michigan and then New Year's Eve.

00:24:45:19 - 00:25:13:12
Meagen
I sort of did the Cali sober pathway. I did a program called One Year No Beer and made it 30 days alcohol free. But I was sort of using cannabis to sort of support that that journey in terms of healing. So it helped with a lot of inflammation. It helped because it was hard. I really did like actually physically detox and I was just a normal consumer of alcohol, but I was drinking every day and after about 90 days I was actually physically unrecognizable to most people.

00:25:13:12 - 00:25:16:06
Meagen
People would come up to me and be like, What happened to you? You look different.

00:25:16:06 - 00:25:17:01
Jessie
Wow.

00:25:17:03 - 00:25:35:17
Meagen
And I couldn't believe it. And so then I decided to go one year alcohol free. And and it was such a significant internal change at that point. And then I started like getting into personal development and consciousness and my behaviors. And I see, you know, when we talked about the questions for day, you asked if I had any.

00:25:35:17 - 00:26:00:02
Meagen
What I wonder if, looking back on my career and I often wonder if I would have found alcohol free and nonalcoholic products earlier in my career what it might look like now, because I actually had to go out of the industry. It kind of and then come back. This is like my comeback, right? You know, truly, because I didn't think I could come back to the industry and contribute in a meaningful way because I didn't think people would think I was credible if I wasn't drinking alcohol, which is totally not true, right?

00:26:00:02 - 00:26:00:10
Jessie
No, I'd.

00:26:00:16 - 00:26:24:15
Meagen
Be I wasn't sure if I could do it. You know, if I could just go out for dinners that were maybe there would be an option. But nowadays there just are. And then I kind of found a way to fly my flag, you know, and I'll get into an event. But there's just so many key people that begin to emerge that either were sharing this experience with me or really believed in what I was doing and knew me from before and saw me.

00:26:24:15 - 00:26:59:04
Meagen
And they were like, wow, I had no idea. And you obviously look very different like what happened to you. And then as a result of that, we found ways to collaborate and and work together. And that has just been, again, I think I don't believe in just coincidence or luck. I'm a woman of faith. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that I know it wasn't just my own willpower to get me to where I am now, but definitely that healing process and taking time to meditate and reflect and really renew my own mind and then renew my behaviors.

00:26:59:06 - 00:27:13:23
Meagen
And that just is something that a person can't do with their own power. So as a result of that started to notice, I was just so many amazing people were being presented to me every day to help me navigate this change. A big career change. And I'm very grateful. Yeah.

00:27:14:05 - 00:27:34:15
Jessie
Why don't you talk about some of your mentors that kind of helped you, you through that? I mean, yeah, it's interesting to know that you realized that you needed to lean on people in. I think people probably at the same time said, Hey, I can help this person because I the either they've been through the same struggle or it's their, their you know, superpower.

00:27:34:16 - 00:27:48:19
Jessie
So that's great. I'm glad that you it's definitely something that would be very hard to do on your own without a support team. So that's that's fantastic. I love that. It's it's so heartwarming.

00:27:48:21 - 00:28:10:05
Meagen
Yeah, it is. It's it is a good story because it's sad in the beginning, you know, they wrote an article was written in this publication called Good Beer Hunting. And it's about that culture of overdrinking in our in our careers. Right. Like when you work in the alcohol beverage industry, it is a different animal when you think about the nature of consuming because it's our product.

00:28:10:05 - 00:28:29:11
Meagen
So we start early. You're at lunch, you can easily go all day and then, you know, and so I was not alone in that. But you also have to be really careful about asking for help in the beverage industry because then you can become so in some ways, at least in the way it was before, kind of perceived as a person who maybe doesn't have as much career potential.

00:28:29:11 - 00:28:52:10
Meagen
And this is just whether or not companies want to admit that, like, that was how it was before. But now it's much different. Now I'm seeing a lot of like employee reserves, employee resource groups dedicated to sobriety and things of that nature. But yeah, it really I would say like going into like my early career at Boston Beer, like I yeah, I just had, I just had really good managers and mentors there that helped develop me.

00:28:52:10 - 00:29:10:23
Meagen
I mean, and Jim Cook, the founder personally, also helped me and developed an interest in what I was doing. But John, guys that he's just retiring as VP of sales also took a personal interest in me and my team. And I think, you know, Texas was an important market to them, but they just care about people. They would they would go out of their way to to be a really big part of our business.

00:29:11:05 - 00:29:28:15
Meagen
And I learn by doing so you can can give me all the examples you want, but I have to just throw myself in right away and just get to do it and then and then fix it. So I had a lot of good opportunities to do that. Actually, this woman named Legal, she was my she trained me at Boston Bureau.

00:29:28:15 - 00:29:53:19
Meagen
She worked there before me, and now she's my business partner in my consulting firm. So a lot of these things have come back full circle. You know, there's a man named Grant Wood who lives in Texas and started Revolver Brewing. He was a brew master at Samuel Adams and went on to help me in other businesses. I think of Dr. Bill Simpson from the sensory world who I've taken like 140 hours of training with, with his team.

00:29:53:19 - 00:29:55:18
Jessie
That is so I love that.

00:29:55:20 - 00:30:13:05
Meagen
Just a just amazing people that I would read about and that I would meet them in person. And not only are they sweet, like I think I have to just say it right to mention anybody else's doctor. Keith Villa and his wife Jody, and their daughter Kathryn Keith invented Blue Moon and then went on to create a neighbor called Syria.

00:30:13:05 - 00:30:35:10
Meagen
And he, him and his wife are the ones that told me to build a training that were get to absolutely needed. You know, if we want to grow this category, there's so encouraging and have a million other ways to spend their time but they chose to spend it helping me, you know, develop this thing. And and I I'm just so I'm so incredibly grateful and had tons of personal mentors to Jesse.

00:30:35:10 - 00:31:08:13
Meagen
I really do believe in the power of personal transformation. And it is really like birds of a feather, you know, if you flock toward people that drive you and motivate you. And also you can be truthful with about really what's going on with yourself, because until we can speak the truth, we can't be helped. Right? You have to be able to say like, hey, you know, even now, like I, I talk about the struggles I had before because they still are still risks still exist, you know, and there's still healing that has to be done when you covered up your issues for so long.

00:31:08:13 - 00:31:31:05
Meagen
So but ultimately, every place I've worked, every consulting job I've had, I think now about the team I have with this company called Happy, and I'm working with a THC seltzer company called Happy, and Lisa Hurwitz and her partner Joe Reynolds are just brilliant people that came to understand CPG in a whole new way and they challenge us to get better.

00:31:31:05 - 00:31:51:03
Meagen
And working with a new THC margarita company called High Tide, the Boston Beer people. Josh Grab and his partner Shay. I mean, these guys are just they're like me. They they're willing to take the risk to try to change a category and bring people along with them and be in an alcohol adjacent space. So it's a really exciting time.

00:31:51:03 - 00:32:10:20
Meagen
It's a high risk time, but the reward is there. I think it's a it's a validated category. So when we get into that, the outlook's here in a few minutes, I think that's that's really it. But I'd say that leaving Boston beer was transformational in that I gave up the security of that corporate it. You know, that was really scary.

00:32:10:20 - 00:32:33:03
Meagen
I was not prepared for that. I thought like, I'm just going to jump into something and immediately be successful. And the truth of the matter is, I went through a lot of companies that had leadership that was just not up to par. You know, they I had a very naive look that if you held the title of CEO, you must be this tremendous human transformational guru and like you must have it all together.

00:32:33:04 - 00:33:03:17
Meagen
And I really it was very focused on titles and sort of realizing really early on that you can learn something from everyone, no matter what their title is or where you meet them every day by listening and asking good questions. So I would say that leaving Boston beer was transformational in that it was very hard and I went through a lot of jobs I did not like and opportunities that disappointed me and were heartbreaking and leaders that, you know, said one thing and did another and, you know, of no fault of their own.

00:33:03:17 - 00:33:26:08
Meagen
Just that is just the reality of the world. Just not every human is conscious. And that's not anybody's fault. That's just like we're not taught that. So until you learn it, you know, just because somebody has a fancy title or something of that nature, you know, as a leader in a company doesn't necessarily warrant their ability to be a leader and motivator to an individual or a team.

00:33:26:10 - 00:33:54:09
Meagen
So I always just tried to do my best to learn and speak up if I wasn't getting what I needed. And that wasn't always easy either. But Boston Beer put me in a position to try a lot of new things because I had a lot of experience and good training and I'm really, really grateful for having spent ten year my ten years of my career with that organization, because I would say that had I not done that, I wouldn't I wouldn't know how to do a lot with little resources because they taught us how to do that very well.

00:33:54:09 - 00:34:22:20
Meagen
And we have have a really solid framework of sales that has been successful. And I've modeled it in different industries and it's very successful and it produces revenue and it produces margin. So I think that that's that's so says something about their model. So yeah, I think that those guys are really great, you know, and in terms of like learning tools and things that I'd like to share with your listeners, you know, a couple of things in the namespace space that have been really helpful to me.

00:34:22:20 - 00:34:43:21
Meagen
I mentioned One Year No Beer, which was a program that I used to. It was like a challenge. It was like a 30 day challenge. I signed up for it. That challenge mentality was a winning ticket for me. Like it didn't. I didn't feel deprived when I was challenging myself, and that's just kind of how I'm wired. So one year, no beer was.

00:34:44:00 - 00:35:05:19
Meagen
It was also very personally motivating, but it wasn't enough. It was not enough. I don't think I would have made it had I not also been practicing transcendental meditation at my university. So I did my my MBA in sustainability at the Maharishi International University in Fairfield, Iowa, which is basically like the Harvard of human consciousness in the middle of this tiny farm town.

00:35:05:20 - 00:35:42:19
Meagen
Oprah Winfrey. Oprah Winfrey was trained there. Jim Carey was trained there. David Lynch was trained there. It's a very, very powerful technology of consciousness, which allows you to immediately enter a fourth state of consciousness, which is different than waking, dreaming and sleeping. And it clears stress from the physiology and creates brainwave coherence within 2 minutes. And so all that built up stress that we carry in our body without having to do anything, but rather sit and relax, it allows the body to sort of purify itself and and that is your achieving a very high level of rest, about 8 hours of rest in 20 minutes.

00:35:42:21 - 00:36:15:19
Meagen
And doing that consistently with a lot of people that are much smarter than I am. They have PhDs in the topic. So I studied that for pretty in-depth since about 2018. I also hired a Ph.D. coach in something called the Enneagram, so I hired an academic expert of the Enneagram. I learned because before I had meditated, I actually had experienced myself as an inner witness, meaning like I just walked around in life until I was in my forties, listening to the voice in my own head and thinking that that me and doing whatever it said that I didn't know that was my ego.

00:36:15:19 - 00:36:35:20
Meagen
I had no idea what that meant. So once I experience that for the first time, I was like, Well, what is that? And someone's like, that's just your ego. Like, What's my ego? Like, How do I know what now? How do I trust now what I'm thinking and no one to question it. So then I started to study that framework in depth for about 18 months at the teaching level.

00:36:36:02 - 00:36:52:08
Meagen
Read, read every academic book I could get my hands on with it, and I started taking better care of my physical health. So I started working out more and it just just I was not a body person. I'm a mental person. So I would just walk around like a floating head all day and not really be in my body.

00:36:52:10 - 00:37:09:21
Meagen
So doing, you know, running Orangetheory yoga, whatever I could do to like get out of my head and into my body really helped me deal find out that like I would get a weird feeling in my heart or my stomach, but I would ignore it because my ego likes to be in my in my brain all day thinking up things.

00:37:09:21 - 00:37:27:10
Meagen
So I think those are the tools that really, really helped me. I did read a book also that I tell a lot of people about called The Snake in Mind by Ani Grace. When I first stopped drinking alcohol, she was a wine industry executive that wrote a book that really kind of breaks down a lot of our false beliefs about what alcohol does for us.

00:37:27:10 - 00:38:00:11
Meagen
It makes me more social, it makes me more attractive, it makes it more fun, more creative, all these things. And she kind of debunks them. And that really helped me. And I'd say the combination of those things allowed me to be successful and in maintaining a zero proof lifestyle, although kind of moving quickly into one of the next questions we had discussed, which is like the pain points of the industry today, you know, I think I what I don't want my journey to turn into is me flying a flag that, like alcohol is bad.

00:38:00:12 - 00:38:39:09
Meagen
I think it's what I really learned from this experience. And one of the pain points I have to overcome is that you can actually drink more if you're a drinker and you're blending or substituting these into your like normal consumption patterns. Like you don't have to be me and be zero proof. You can have a glass of wine or your favorite drink, adding some of these out and beverages and then everybody wins, you know, And I think that's a social there's a there's an inherently socially sustainable aspect of that, that when people are drinking these in a more balanced way, it just seems to be improving things not only for the individual, but in the

00:38:39:09 - 00:38:55:20
Meagen
environment around them as a radiating effect. And I think that that's something that I'd like to see more of because there is pushback. There is pushback like, why am I going to pay more for a product that doesn't have alcohol? And I'm like, Well, here's exactly why you should do that. This is going to help all your alcohol sales.

00:38:55:22 - 00:39:19:10
Meagen
Like these are analogs of it for a reason that that person, that drinker is actually already making the decision that they're not going to consume alcohol. So they're going to drink water, tea, soda, energy drinks or you can premium as the experience for them and give them an analog great analog beer, wine or zero proof cocktail or RTD that's going to or a cannabis beverage that's going to be something adjacent to them in that space.

00:39:19:10 - 00:39:43:09
Meagen
So that's the that is something that is that is the pain point right now is like, how do we help the retail market? How do we educate them so that they can talk to people and recognize more opportunities to sell these products? And so that's something that I think we've taken this body of knowledge and like tried to condense down into something anybody can teach.

00:39:43:11 - 00:40:15:21
Meagen
So our all of our curriculum can be could be accessed by anyone. And if they're an educator basically and then taught on behalf of them because I've already created it. So that's with alcohol for you aficionados, of course. So all of our courses like we have a client with, we're clients with Brewdog and Brewdog licenses the material and then goes and trains their retailers and wholesalers on beer because they believe in that opportunity and they run up into the same challenges that we do, which is, you know, it's crowded right now.

00:40:15:21 - 00:40:37:05
Meagen
Why should I bring this in? There's so many offerings. How do I sell it? No one's going to drink a beer if I put it on my menu. And the reality is that's just not true because we see it in the numbers, not only in the declines in our purchases, but also in the increases in things like THC beverage and, you know, beer and things of that nature.

00:40:37:05 - 00:41:09:00
Meagen
So I say I tell people now that we've done the research, there's tons of good articles out there. There's a few interesting factors that are happening in the industry now that I would say, is what is leading to a pretty positive outlook, but one that shows we have a lot of work to do. Like an A and a F ridges are 1% of the entire industry value right now, and it's $1,000,000,000 industry which is not much and spreads pretty thin when you have hundreds of SKUs, which is the reality.

00:41:09:02 - 00:41:39:22
Meagen
But the trends underneath are telling us that it's that I shouldn't even say a trend will be on trend and an established consumer behavior now to purchase something because of wellness reasons and as we kind of already discussed, that translates into a real opportunity, which is why I think the pain point is just limited by education. And I keep telling my distributors and giving talks called Make zero your biggest asset.

00:41:40:00 - 00:42:02:05
Meagen
So take this category opportunity and leverage it because zero doesn't mean lacking zero is actually uncovering an opportunity that already exists and there's factors playing into it that have a lot to do with COVID. They have a lot to do with things like weight loss drugs, which are going to be a $60 billion industry which prohibit people really from being able to consume alcohol.

00:42:02:10 - 00:42:28:12
Meagen
And all of these tell me primarily driven by hemp derived THC beverages, which is going to represent about 25 billion and category growth in the next seven years and the output of the space, if it achieves 10% of category sales. And we're already seeing that in markets like Minnesota. But when you look at other than a F and a beer, wine, spirits, RTD, 30 billion roughly and about on about a seven year maturity curve.

00:42:28:12 - 00:42:50:03
Meagen
So these are real numbers that I think are important for the industry to to believe in. And you can follow the money, you can follow the capital, the CapEx that was just spent at Anheuser-Busch and then putting in New Deal equalization units, you can follow the revenue being spent on weight loss drugs and hearing the anecdotal stories of those patients saying like, I can't drink alcohol anymore.

00:42:50:04 - 00:43:12:22
Meagen
So it makes me sick, you know, or the cohort of people that are like. Yeah, I listen to the Andrew Huberman podcast, which is another resource I'll quickly plug on alcohol, your brain and your body. And he does a three hour long form post on this. So they like I heard that and now I don't drink. I don't drink my wine Monday through Friday, I just drink it on Saturday nights.

00:43:13:00 - 00:43:37:02
Meagen
So what are they replacing those those drinking occasions with? So for all of those reasons, I think there's a major upside that we're looking at. There's a $35 billion flag to capture, but cap that category has to be built. And that's something I'm I'm very I see a lot of opportunity for so much so that I want to stay around and help the industry develop that that capability.

00:43:37:04 - 00:43:43:23
Jessie
Yeah, I love it. It needs it needs you. And you're very passionate. You're you're the perfect person for it. I love it.

00:43:44:01 - 00:44:08:21
Meagen
Well, we're all in it together. You know, I'd say like, I don't feel like this is work. I feel like I'm getting to talk to all via like, brothers and sisters in the industry every day that, like, we're seeing we just come back around this. So it's like doesn't even mean that somebody is alcohol free, but they're all sharing their story of like, yeah, you know, I just kind of started changing this one aspect of my relationship with alcohol and like, it's totally been great.

00:44:08:21 - 00:44:24:12
Meagen
Like I just drink one beer and then a couple nights and then go up and then switch back or I don't drink during the week, but on the weekends I still do and I feel great. And here's, here's the result of that. And that is exciting to me because that tells me now that people are like with it even within themselves.

00:44:24:12 - 00:44:50:19
Meagen
And these are industry people realizing that that stigma doesn't have to exist anymore. And there's a lot of great options and we need a F and A to continue to grow the alcohol beverage industry as a total because they're not again, they're still part of the industry. These beverages have need to be sold through the same system and there's still great like an energy beer and a beer is still a beer.

00:44:50:21 - 00:45:14:16
Meagen
It's just a beer that has under 0.5% ABV. Therefore, it's not encumbered by the same regulatory restrictions and it creates new opportunities to depending on what state you live in, drink a beer while you're driving to work at 8:00 in the morning. And I think creating those new opportunities for people have it, have it. You're at your church, which is what I did over the weekend, right?

00:45:14:16 - 00:45:38:21
Meagen
I brought in neighbors to my church and saw people who felt like their whole life they've always been excluded from things because people know they don't drink. But I saw them drinking in a Corona and like, loving it, you know? And I just think there's I like the idea I'm a social person. I like to go out and create interesting experiences for people.

00:45:38:21 - 00:46:05:00
Meagen
So at the end of the day, my mission aficionado and in my personal life has always been to empower the way that people connect. Like for me, that's like my magic thing is like I like to influence that event and occasion because I love people. And especially now that I plug it into something meaningful, like how do I create a better lifestyle for somebody just by giving them a different option they maybe didn't know about before then?

00:46:05:00 - 00:46:19:15
Meagen
Of course, if I get around to sharing my story with them, maybe there's a different connection there. But I I'm so motivated by that now to want to get up and share this category with people, whether, you know, no matter how they're participating in it, because I think everybody can win if we embrace it together.

00:46:19:20 - 00:46:43:13
Jessie
Yeah, and it's about inclusion, right? you know, I spoke with Heather and she's real focused on restaurants, and it's a it's about, you know, going out to dinner and being included, you know, like, wow, you you're looking out for everybody when you have an enable option, you know? And, you know, we have the two we have generations behind us that are coming up that are telling us this exact same thing.

00:46:43:13 - 00:46:48:15
Jessie
So it's an industry that's going to continue to grow. I mean, everything starts somewhere, right?

00:46:48:17 - 00:47:08:07
Meagen
I totally agree. There's the growth opportunity is huge. And I think you play an important role. I think I think having these types of formats to educate and let people listen in and think about how this might impact their business or their personal life and either starts at the individual level or the organization level, organizational level for somebody.

00:47:08:07 - 00:47:28:23
Meagen
So I encourage everybody who's sober, curious for themselves, or curious about what type of revenue opportunity really exists in my company and organization. For Ana, it doesn't matter what field you're in, there's a plate. If you're having beverages at the place you work, there is an opportunity. And so I just think there's something really exciting.

00:47:29:00 - 00:47:34:13
Jessie
Any New Year's resolutions for 2020 for.

00:47:34:15 - 00:47:55:09
Meagen
Yeah, you know, I think for me, one of the biggest things on my plate this year is time management, especially as it relates to technology. You know, I'm really embracing A.I. to try to teach myself how to work less hours. What I have learned about human potential is that we're it's it's kind of like the energy that you have.

00:47:55:09 - 00:48:22:09
Meagen
We always say at our university, when you pull back a bow and arrow, like if you don't take that active rest, like you can't shoot properly, so you I realize now that I get so much more done in like that 35 to 40 focused. I used to just work so much and always be available. But now I find by by telling saying no and being like doing the other things that are just in my old life, I would've been like, that person's so lazy.

00:48:22:09 - 00:48:40:23
Meagen
Like, they're only working like 35 or 40 hours a week. they're not working as hard as me. And I'm like, Well, what good are you? What good are you? After that 35th hour when you have nothing left and you're not actually being creative, you're not actually listening, you're not actually paying attention to your family, you're just doing nothing, actually.

00:48:40:23 - 00:48:41:08
Jessie
Right.

00:48:41:13 - 00:49:02:14
Meagen
And so I think I think for me, leading by example in that regard to show how to just do this, that scientific, you know, proving your own point is like the Tim Ferriss sort of philosophy of like, how do I have my best year ever and work half as much? I think that's a New Year's resolution. I'm very interested in exploring next year.

00:49:02:15 - 00:49:31:04
Meagen
Yeah, which is like good for all of us. I think that's another thing we have to teach ourselves because we have the resources and tools now with A.I. to allow ourselves that creative and recovery time. But human creativity becomes the becomes the asset. Now, human creativity can't be replaced by biology. Therefore, if you don't take the time to generate creativity by doing these things, like you're just contributing to like the the turn of the machine, if you will.

00:49:31:04 - 00:49:44:00
Meagen
Like you're just doing inputs. And I always ask myself the question these days. Am I consuming information or am I contributing? And then try to manage the amount of time I spend doing the consumption aspect?

00:49:44:02 - 00:49:47:00
Jessie
Yeah, that's a really good thought.

00:49:47:02 - 00:49:54:02
Meagen
Thank you. Yeah. And I really appreciate you asking good questions like this because that's. It's fun.

00:49:54:04 - 00:50:02:16
Jessie
Good, Good. Yeah. Thank you. Are you a writer or a poet by chance?

00:50:02:18 - 00:50:04:12
Meagen
I do. I do write a lot.

00:50:04:14 - 00:50:05:23
Jessie
Yeah. Could tell.

00:50:06:01 - 00:50:28:17
Meagen
And I do think it's something that I. That I'm. I'm good at. And I'm a very verbally inclined person with high language comprehension. And I had just it runs in my family. So I've been blessed with people that just have a very good command of words. And I think it's backed by something that's in my family. DNA is love.

00:50:28:19 - 00:50:48:07
Meagen
I have so many loving people in my family that just freely give love to like strangers. Like I think of my aunt who will go to any up to the first person she sees in Kroger and start to, you know, explore their lives, try to bless somebody by just putting a hand on them and saying hello. She's just so fearless.

00:50:48:07 - 00:51:16:18
Meagen
And my mom, you know, working in juvenile detention with kids and, you know, my husband's parents are at work with their pastors and social workers and the way that they work with people in the community. I think has had a really big influence on me. And I think a lot about the work that I do and how can I just sometimes when you look somebody in the eye and smile at them or put your hand on their shoulder and just give them an encouragement, sometimes for some people that's a lot more meaningful and powerful over time than you can even imagine.

00:51:16:20 - 00:51:30:04
Meagen
Know there's a lot of data behind that. So I feel I feel blessed because those are things that you can't coach or teach and to people that tend to be there. And that's something that I think makes what I get to do really unique and special.

00:51:30:06 - 00:51:39:05
Jessie
Yeah, that's awesome. So you're a writer. What other passions do you have outside of work?

00:51:39:07 - 00:52:00:09
Meagen
I love nature and gardening. I'm my husband is the green thumb and a master gardener. But we we love to hike and camp and go, you know, do all the things. Like we went to the redwoods and hyped in the redwoods. And our kids, we love our kids to be outdoors. We love sports. So I do a lot of like sauna and I love to read.

00:52:00:09 - 00:52:21:12
Meagen
I constantly am reading or listening to something. I'd say like, self-improvement through education and learning is probably like my Achilles heel because like, I'm constantly stuffing information in and like, wanting to take it all in and at the same time trying to feel like put the phone and like go outside and be barefoot and stand in the grass.

00:52:21:12 - 00:52:50:07
Meagen
Because those silly things that seem really woo, woo and New Age are actually part of connecting with our self and part of like who humans are. So I'm really passionate about like wellness and personal development and just nature in general and growing in my faith. The spiritual and emotional development. I try to spend as much time as I can since I wasn't that way before, and it seemed to be contributing to some of the reasons I felt so lost all the time and was always searching for something more and a new experience to replace.

00:52:50:07 - 00:53:09:10
Meagen
Maybe a deeper longing for connection that I didn't have before. And then when I stopped being in pain all the time and I like to laugh and tell people, I'm like, you know, it's kind of funny when you're not like thinking about drinking, planning to drink, drinking and recovering from drinking. You have a lot more time on your hands.

00:53:09:12 - 00:53:12:17
Jessie
So like, yeah, I found that.

00:53:12:19 - 00:53:36:15
Meagen
You know, I recovered a lot of time that I could, I could orient in a productive way, and a lot of it had to do with like, what was it why was I actually going after those things in the first place, You know, going after that experience of, of you know, drinking and socializing. Because for me, it was kind of filling that gap of being in connection with something, you know, maybe, well, something more powerful than just myself.

00:53:36:15 - 00:53:53:07
Meagen
And that was really helpful for me. And I think that journey is so different for everybody, but it's certainly a really important part of my story and always happy to share that with people no matter what we believe. I think just hearing someone's own individual story of transformation sometimes can be really powerful and I love to share that with people.

00:53:53:09 - 00:54:15:06
Jessie
Yeah, I'm glad you came on and did that because I think it is it is important, especially, you know, as this segment gets bigger, more and more people probably are going to do this. Not the exact same, but, you know, try to do a similar transition in life. So it's a major part of life. It changes a lot of things for you and your family.

00:54:15:08 - 00:54:27:23
Jessie
You know? You know, it's not just it's not just about you. I mean, you're a mom. You have kids. You have, you know, your your wife. So, you know, all those things. You have to learn how to you have to train your brain differently.

00:54:28:00 - 00:54:33:23
Meagen
Right now, 100%. You couldn't have said that better. That's exactly right.

00:54:34:01 - 00:54:39:10
Jessie
Well, maybe we should end on that, then. Yes, because I can't. I can't.

00:54:39:16 - 00:54:41:16
Meagen
I love it. Well, I was.

00:54:41:18 - 00:54:46:15
Jessie
I don't think I could come up with anything else today. Sorry. Go ahead. But. well.

00:54:46:15 - 00:55:08:18
Meagen
That was so beautiful. And I'm so glad. And I hope I hope we get to do this again some time and continue the conversation, especially if you have other you have listeners that you we end up hearing from that our like. So we're curious like what's it like? How could I possibly do this to like give I'm trying it, but give me some of your best practices, please don't you know, let's encourage them to reach out to us.

00:55:08:18 - 00:55:12:11
Meagen
And I'd be so interested to see how we could collaborate in the future. For sure.

00:55:12:15 - 00:55:26:14
Jessie
Yeah, I would love that. That would be fun. Yeah, for sure. Well, we'll see what happens. Yes, wonderful. And yeah, that's that's actually really cool. Maybe we'll be able to help some people through this podcast. That'd be really awesome. Really awesome.

00:55:26:16 - 00:55:39:05
Meagen
I have no doubt that. I have no doubt that you will, Jesse. For sure. You are. You are a bright light and this industry needs people like you. So I'm glad that you invited me to do this. And I'm glad for a connection. And thanks for the opportunity.

00:55:39:06 - 00:56:01:16
Jessie
Thank you. Yes, I agree 100%. I'm so happy that I met you and and looking forward to the future, you know, whatever that whatever that is or whatever that looks like. So you are also a bright light and an amazing energy, a I need to do what you're doing, I guess. Like, it's amazing.

00:56:01:18 - 00:56:22:04
Meagen
Well, let's let's, we'll do it together. Yeah, absolutely. We'll definitely continue the discussion because I think that there's something to be said about developing cohorts of people that are just interested in these topics because to get we're all better together at the end of the day and sharing the individual experiences, what makes it really powerful because somebody out there will relate to somebody in the group, you know, it always works that way.

00:56:22:04 - 00:56:27:15
Meagen
So yeah, but yeah, I love it. So yeah, when I I'd love to come back.

00:56:27:17 - 00:56:29:09
Jessie
Yeah, I always like to wave.

00:56:29:11 - 00:56:31:02
Meagen
Sounds great. I'll see you later.

00:56:31:04 - 00:56:42:17
Jessie
Yeah, see you later. Bye. Tune in next Thursday and have a great week. This week's episode was produced by Fedora Day Productions.