2 Corinthians 12 | What is the Third Heaven and What Was Paul's Thorn in the Flesh?

What does Paul mean by the "thorn in the flesh"?
What is the third heaven in 2 Corinthians 12?

Today, we're tackling 2 Corinthians 12, a chapter filled with profound insights and challenging passages that invite us to reflect on Paul's unique experiences and their implications for our faith. This chapter is a powerful reminder of the complexity of Paul's ministry and his ongoing struggle to convey the truth of the Gospel amidst opposition and personal challenges. 

In 2 Corinthians 12, Paul presents a fascinating and somewhat mysterious account of being "caught up to the third heaven," a vision that has puzzled scholars and believers alike for centuries. This vision, whether it refers to Paul himself or another individual, highlights the intense spiritual experiences that can accompany deep faith. Yet, Paul refuses to boast about these revelations, emphasizing instead the importance of humility and the danger of spiritual pride.

Another key theme in this chapter is Paul's "thorn in the flesh," a phrase that has sparked endless debate and speculation. While some believe it refers to a physical ailment, others think it might symbolize ongoing opposition from false teachers or other spiritual challenges. Regardless of its exact nature, the thorn in the flesh serves as a reminder of the trials and tribulations that can accompany a life of faith. 

Paul's message in this chapter is clear: true power and authority in the Christian life come not from boasting or self-promotion, but from a deep reliance on Christ. He contrasts himself with the "super-apostles" who sought to elevate themselves and impress others.

As we study 2 Corinthians 12, it's important to remember that the focus should not be on the sensational details of Paul's visions or the specifics of his thorn in the flesh. Instead, we are called to recognize the overarching theme of the chapter: the sufficiency of God's grace.

Finally, Paul’s closing remarks in this chapter remind us of the ongoing battle he faced in defending his apostleship and the truth of the Gospel. Despite the relentless challenges and criticisms, Paul remained steadfast in his mission, continually pointing back to Christ as the source of his strength and authority. 

As we prepare to conclude this book, let’s carry with us the lessons of humility, reliance on Christ, and the power of God's grace in our lives. Stay tuned for our next episode as we wrap up this incredible journey through Paul's letters to the Corinthians.

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Transcript

 2 Corinthians 12

2 Corinthians 12

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome to God's plan, your part year two, where this year we're reading through and studying the entire New Testament one chapter at a time. Thanks again for joining us in discovering God's plan and your part in it. Today, we are looking at second Corinthians chapter 12, and I think it's a doozy.

There's a, there's a lot of things in here that are unique, that are a little bit odd. Um, things that are worth digging into a little bit further. Uh, in fact, we, we just spent quite a bit of time digging into this chapter a little bit further on our Logos Bible software, trying to figure out what is going on here.

Um, let's jump into this. So I would say it's definitely broken up into two sections today. Uh, we've talked about in prior chapters how it feels like Paul is being very direct, and then there are some chapters where he seems like he's really humbling himself, and it seems like this chapter is a mix of the two, uh, so you have a little bit of him defending himself, and a little bit of him kind of [00:01:00] reassuring, maybe, or teaching and reassert, reassuring, but I think what's important is, we were just talking about this before the episode started, it seems like there are perhaps Like there's one audience, but there's like two sections of that one audience that he's addressing.

Who are the two audiences? Do you think? So I would say the first one, I would say definitely has to deal with people who have questions about visions and, um, Oh, help me visions and yeah. And the second one is about essentially from that same group of people, people that are really questioning his.

Apostleship or who he is or his motives and I don't know. I don't think that everybody fell into that category necessarily. Yeah. I think he's continuing to confront this group of people that are really questioning his authority and his legitimacy. And I also think this is important, actually. I also think he's continuing some of that.

Sarcastic tone, some of that, like, okay, like [00:02:00] you guys are like this, so I'll be like this too, uh, because he does set the tone multiple times that like, I don't believe in boasting in myself. I think it's wrong to boast to myself. I only want to boast in Christ. And then he almost sets up this case where he's like drug into boasting, but even when he does that, he refuses to speak of it in like a.

Uh, way that pumps up himself. I don't know though, because it seems to me like the issue here is he's, I don't, maybe I'm wrong. I'm not sure. Um, but he's not trying to say in the first part, I don't think, that he is, like, really I don't know. Not trying to make a spectacle of himself in a rude way. I think he's saying, you guys want to know about these visions and hyper spiritualized things.

And like, he's, he refers to a man who has experienced Like very spiritual things, but not [00:03:00] referring to himself, even though it's obvious that he's talking about himself. So he's trying to say like, Hey, I have experienced these things and I'm not going to like brag to you about it because I know that like God is using that in my own personal faith walk.

But at the same time, it's not something to be grasped for like self glory. So just to be right up front with it, I think the first two big things we're going to talk about is Paul being caught up well. A man being caught up into the third heaven. There is different opinions on that. Uh, and also then we'll get to, uh, Paul's thorn in the flesh.

That's like probably two big mystical things that have not been properly defined throughout history, um, that are things that people have questions about with Paul. Well, and the way I see it too, is this first section, I really, truly feel like he's almost talking to like very childlike faith that is like, grasping for things to say, Oh, I'm there too.

I'm at that same level. And the [00:04:00] second I think is like this weird group of super cynical. I don't care what you say, Paul, because I think you're a horrible person that he's addressing. So I think putting it into those two perspectives, I think there might be some, like, desire to do what is good in the first section by whom he's talking to, simply because they're just, like, Well, I want to experience that too.

But it's like, wait, wait, wait. Like you don't even understand. Yeah. I don't, it's not something to be grasped to be like, Oh, there's another jewel in my crown. It's not like that. I would push on that thought. Cause it seems like they're, they're really, he's trying to be confrontational here. With people who are not supportive of what he's doing.

And because his language is like, I don't want to boast, but you're forcing me to boast. So I will. So from the top, one of the interesting things that Paul chooses to do when talking about these visions is he does not say that he himself was caught up to the third heaven. He says that he knows a man. Uh, so there is a whole group of people out [00:05:00] there today.

Uh, Um, and I don't know if they're right or if they're wrong, but they assume that Paul is actually talking about a different man. He's not talking about himself. Uh, there is a whole other group that is probably the majority group that says this is Paul referring to himself. And he is continuing to refuse to boast because he will not even say that it happened to Paul.

So he's going to point out this incredibly spiritual thing that happened to him, but he will not say that it happened to him. He's just saying that he knows someone that, that It happened to the other interesting thing is he points out that it happened 14 years ago, which seems to point to the fact that he hasn't really spoken about this much.

And he's been very careful to be open about it. So it's, it's almost like, okay, like you're forcing my hand. I'll tell you, like I know this stuff. That was caught up to the third heaven 14 years ago. Now there is a lot of debate about this because of the timing, because there's debate about when second Corinthians was written.

There's debate about when 14 years ago would have been, but just to save you [00:06:00] some time, I will tell you, uh, there is a pretty sizable group of people that believe that. in Acts 14 when Paul was stoned near to death at Lystra, they actually thought he was dead. There are people that say that the timeline lines up to where he may have in fact actually died, been caught up into heaven and then brought back to life.

Now, you know, that's Is that like a heart paddles where you like have a near death experience and come back? Is that like he actually was resurrected? I think it's more likely that he was just, you know, near death. Uh, he had a near death experience, but it's likely that that could have been what he's talking about.

There's another group of people that point to, uh, between, between Galatians one and two, Paul talks about a time when he was kind of doing ministry, like Out in Arabia and then through a couple of different cities. Uh, it's very possible that he was having visions at that time. Um, there, there's a lot of uncertainty about what this is, but the thing that we should take from it is that he's hesitant to draw attention to himself.

And [00:07:00] even the thing he says about going to the third heaven, um, he says, uh, whether in body or out of the body, I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise, whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know, God knows. And he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.

So even the things he's bragging about, if he's bragging about it, there's not even any, like, really interesting details. He's like, he's like not feeding their weakness of just desiring to hear super spiritual things. So it's like, fine, I'll tell you this little bit. That's not what matters. What matters is boasting in Christ and recognizing Christ.

And then he goes on to say, too, um, about this thorn that you were talking about earlier. So, I guess, verse 7, it says, To keep me from becoming conceited, because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given to me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

Um, so, He goes straight from this [00:08:00] conversation of talking about what this vision was like for some not him man. And then he talks about becoming conceited because of this. So he's saying that he's been afflicted by something. And I was reading through a commentary that had suggested it was some kind of physical ailment.

So whether it was like his inability to sleep or his inability to see. see or speak correctly, one of these things could have been the physical like ailment that was afflicted upon him that in, in turn made Paul look weak so that God looked greater. This is another one of those really interesting things where there are so many different opinions on it.

And probably the most powerful thing about it is that we can't define what it is because it's not the most important detail in what Paul's trying to teach. The main detail that Paul's trying to teach is that, um, let's see, uh, my grace is sufficient for you. Verse nine, my grace is sufficient for you for my power is made [00:09:00] perfect in weakness.

That's the point he wants to leave with us. But the point that unfortunately over time has been left with us is like, Ooh, what was his thorn? And you can find list after list of, well, his. Well, his stomach was kind of weak. Well, he wasn't a very good speaker. Well, he had an angry ex wife. Like, all of these are like real things that people have suggested.

The problem is there's no way to actually prove that. One or the other. The other interesting thing is the letter itself defines what the thorn is. And it's worth digging into it because a lot of times you hear about the thorn in the flesh, you don't hear about the other things. So if you look specifically at verse seven, so to keep me from becoming, um, Conceded because of their surpassing greatness of revelations a thorn was given me in the flesh That's the thing that everybody knows a messenger of Satan to harass me to keep me from becoming conceded So there's some kind of power of Satan here That's been granted by God to keep Paul humble and a lot of people make the case that it's [00:10:00] the the Judaizers the false teachers the people in Corinth who are pushing back against Paul like There's a case to be made for all of those things so it It's really interesting.

You can really go down the rabbit hole trying to figure this out. But the thing that matters is that Christ grace is sufficient and he's, uh, he makes us perfect in weakness. I think it's also interesting that that verse is used very heavily just across the board. But when you read it for the context that it is, it's really crazy to go from like.

this strange thought process, like from one thing to the next in chapter 12, where he's starting out talking about spiritual things, like seeing actual visions and then thorns in his side, which seemed to be like, whether it's physical or credibility, I'm not sure. But he's saying, regardless of that, And through that weakness, Christ is uplifted, and he is essentially given more glory.

So, from that it is, I guess, a, sort of a good segue, because he's saying, in [00:11:00] those weaknesses Christ is made, like, more strong, more valuable, more lifted up, whatever you want to say. Um, he starts talking to them about how the Corinthian church is still treating him after he has already told them, I don't need to be paid by you.

Um, it's not something that he desires and people are. questioning him again saying, well, you're just saying that because you want us to think that you don't want our money. It's so silly. Uh, so it seems like he can't really win here. The audience is not super into him or willing to give him the benefit of any doubt.

It's interesting in that the people that are questioning him, the people that he is, it's not the right word to use, but the people that he's competing with, there are these people that are all about inflating themselves. They're all about, um, wowing people with how entertaining they can be. And they charge for their services.

And if you think about what Paul is up against, Paul is trying to [00:12:00] represent the true gospel, the power of Christ. And he's trying to do that by not being this in the spotlight at all. So it's interesting that Paul rolls up talking about the power of Christ and how important he wants to reflect, um, only Christ, only Christ, like, That's the only thing he cares about.

Um, it's interesting that these people would rather serve entertainers that cost money than Paul, who is less entertaining and less engaging and for free with the true gospel. Well, wouldn't it be easier to say to someone that you don't like, well, you just want our money. Like you just want to come in here and take our money that we're giving to them.

Uh, so I think that would actually be like a pretty easy way to disqualify or discredit someone. Just by being like, well, one, we don't like what you say. And two, you just want the money that we're giving to them. And I think that's the key piece here. They just don't like what he has to say. They don't like what he's teaching.

And so what's happening here is all these [00:13:00] like underhanded attempts to undercut his authority. The problem is he has so much authority because of what Christ has been doing through him and the fruit of his ministry. That's so evident everywhere because Christ is doing the work. Um, That's why the people have to try to undercut him in different ways.

So that kind of brings us back to the top where we're talking about, like the, the whole point of this chapter is it's part of this larger argument where he's confronting these different groups of people that will not support his ministry and will not believe, um, that he is an apostle and should be listened to.

Well, and then he kind of ends the whole chapter then, and this is, I think, interesting because we're getting ready to read the final chapter, the final bit of Corinthians, and he does say in verse, uh, 21, I fear that when I come again, my God may humble me before you and that I may, excuse me, and I may have to mourn over many of those who have sinned earlier and have not repented of all of those things, impurity, sexual morality, and [00:14:00] sensuality that they practiced.

So I think he's saying overall. I really hope that when I get to you, this wasn't just like essentially for nothing because you haven't changed your ways in any way, shape or form. And it's really interesting that the audience is basically identified as unrepentant people. So there are people in Corinth that have come to Christ.

They are submitting to the will of Christ. They are living lives that honor Christ. There's also people that want to pretend like they're honoring Christ and they refuse to To accept these hard sayings. And now, like, on top of refusing to accept these harder teachings of Paul, they're like almost trying to force him to be as entertaining or as flashy as everybody else, which is why we get what we get in this passage.

And so, um, to, to round out the, your part for today, I would point out, um, It's really easy to be distracted by the third heaven comment and the thorn in the flesh comment. But the point of the chapter is [00:15:00] Christ gets all the glory. And when we're doing things well, we're doing everything we possibly can to highlight Christ over and above ourselves.

And Paul is doing this to his own detriment. Over and over and over again. Uh, that's why he's using kind of this sarcastic tone. Um, and like basically being drug into talking about his own spiritual experiences. But I think it is helpful for us, um, to really try to redirect. All attention to Christ. It's so easy to soak up the attention for yourself.

It's so easy to try to make yourself seem like the victor, but Christ is the victor and we want to draw all attention. We possibly can to Jesus because it's Jesus who deserves all honor and glory and power and authority, and we want to highlight him above ourselves. Thanks for joining us. We'll be back again tomorrow for the final chapter of second Corinthians.

Thanks for listening to today's episode. Before we get to the reading, I want to recommend another podcast that I'm a part of called God's whole story. [00:16:00] This year, we're releasing one episode a week on Monday mornings, overviewing one book of the Bible each week. So God's plan. Your part is a deep dive chapter by chapter where God's whole story is taking it one book at a time.

If you enjoy this podcast, you'll enjoy that one. Go check it out. Now here's the reading. Second Corinthians chapter 12. I must go on boasting though. There is nothing to be gained by it. I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven.

Whether in the body or out of the body I do not know. God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise. Whether in the body or out of the body I do not know. God knows. And he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast.

Accept of my weakness, though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth. [00:17:00] But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. So, to keep me from becoming conceited because of my surpassing greatness of revelations, a thorn was given to me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me, but he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, and my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly of my weakness, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weakness, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities.

For when I am weak, then I am strong. I have been a fool. You force me to it, for I ought to have been commended by you, for I was not at all inferior to these super apostles, even though I am nothing. The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty [00:18:00] works.

For in what were you less favored than the rest of the churches, except that I myself did not burden you? Forgive me this wrong. Here for the third time I am ready to come to you, and I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours, but you. For children you are not obligated to save up for their parents, but parents for their children.

I will most gladly spend and be spent for your souls. If I love you more, am I to be loved less? By granting that I myself did not burden you, I was crafty, you say, and got the better of you by deceit. Did I take advantage of you through any of those whom I sent to you? I urged Titus to go and sent the brother with him.

Did Titus take advantage of you? Did we not act in the same spirit? Did we not take the same steps? Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? It is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ, and all for your upbuilding, [00:19:00] beloved. For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish, and that you may find me not as you wish, that perhaps there may be more quarreling, jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder.

I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have more to mourn over. Many of those who have sinned earlier and have not repented of this impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of God's Plan, Your Part.

Don't forget, you can find us on just about every social media platform and YouTube. Let us know what you thought of today's episode, and if you have any questions, go ahead and post them there. You can also reach out to us directly at GodsPlanYourPart at gmail. com. As always, If you don't have a Bible, or if you'd like to use the one that we use, uh, reach out to us via email and we'll be happy to send one to you.

Thanks again for listening. We'll [00:20:00] see you again tomorrow.