S2 - E1 - Welcome Back

Join us for the first episode of Season 2 of Widowed AF, where your host Rosie Gill-Moss, alongside co-host Jonathan Gill-Moss, return for more stories from the coal face of widowhood . This episode reintroduces the ethos of the podcast and shares a recap for new listeners. 

You can expect to hear frank conversations that provide insight and understanding of grief, the process of healing, and the challenges of finding yourself again after the loss of your person. 

Tune in to hear stories that resonate with anyone who has experienced loss or wants to better support others through such times. Whether you're new to the community or have been with us since the beginning, Widowed AF is here to offer a a friendly (and dark humoured ) place for sharing, healing, and understanding.

Connect with Us:

• Follow us on Instagram @widowedAF
• Email: theshow at widowedAF.com
• Web: (https://www.widowedaf.com)
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Transcript

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:02

Hello and a very warm welcome back to Widowed af. You are listening to episode one of season two, and thank you to those of you who did listen to our, our first season. It was an, it was a total of 100 episodes, so for those of you that made it through them, all the, you can apply for a medal. But no actually don't do that. Don't I haven't got a medal to give I'll give you a little bird badge

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 0:26

Yeah,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:28

all right if you listen to all the 100 let me know and i'll send you a little sticker um So for those of you who perhaps are new to the podcast or um have not heard all the episodes We thought it might be helpful to give you a little bit of a recap as to who I am. Um Who the gentleman sitting opposite me that you can't see if you're listening is this is john say hi to the listeners john

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 0:47

Hi everybody

Rosie Gill-Moss: 0:48

So, the podcast was started, it started last January. And initially, um, it was myself and my friend Lulu. We were the presenters and John was very much behind the scenes doing the production. Now, as you can probably tell from the first couple of episodes, we have no, we had no experience of podcasting, broadcasting. Or, Oh, my post it note telling me where to look has just fallen down. I wasn't even looking at it anyway. Um, and it, it just became something that we loved. Um, I realized very early on that talking to people and finding out their stories and what enabled them to get through the most traumatic experience of their lives was incredibly rewarding but also incredibly interesting. I love people. I love talking to people. And it's opened my eyes to So much, you know, there's so much I didn't know about grief despite having experienced it myself So, sorry, I digress this is something else you'll get used to if you're new to the podcast Um lulu stepped back from the podcast. We didn't fall out She's she actually appears in episode 100. Um, but it was just it became a kind of behemoth of a thing didn't it? It's it It just um, yeah, it it we loved it and we kind of immersed ourselves in it, but it was too much Um for lulu at the time so she stepped back And, initially I was going to go solo, and then one day I roped John in as a co host, and it really worked.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 2:19

The rest is history. Yeah.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 2:21

So, the interviews I tend to conduct on my own, because that can be quite difficult when you've got two people asking questions of somebody. Um, but John will, you will hear John's voice quite regularly, and it's a really I think a really important asset to the podcast because men don't talk about their grief and their mental health as much as they perhaps should. So John is here to provide a kind of welcome counterbalance to my incessant chatter. So I wanted to just kind of, again, I, this may be, um, repetition for a lot of you, but, um, I suppose it's an opportune moment to just give you a little bit of a recap of who we are and. I guess, um, the name says it all. We, we are both widowed as fuck. Um, my husband, my first husband, my dead husband, um,'cause I have two, I have an alive husband who's sitting opposite me. John and I have a dead husband called Ben. And it's still six years on. Quite difficult sometimes to, to talk about because. It hurts. It hurts a lot. It doesn't stop hurting just because time has passed. Um, but having the opportunity to speak about him and to speak to other people about their loss has been actually really invaluable as part of my, um, I'm going to say it, I'm going to say it, healing journey. So, Ben, he died, um, he died in a scuba diving accident and off the coast of Dover. So it gets less glamorous when you say the coast of Dover. People, you know, picture some sort of Caribbean, um, blue sea. Um, it was, it was horrible, it was traumatic, and it was incredibly scary. And, um, his body has actually never been found, which did add an enormous complication to his death. I have recorded an interview myself, which is episode three. If you do want to go back and have a listen to the story in full and I may do another one at some point now I've got a little bit more experience behind the microphone, but I guess I'm just showing my widow credentials for those of you out there that are looking for, I guess, a voice. We all want to feel like we're not alone in whatever we're experiencing and I, I spoke, this sounds really wanky, but I'm going to say it anyway. I sort of wanted to be a constant, a voice, um, a support, you know, somewhere that you could come in and basically anything you were experiencing, we will have been through it too. Or one of our guests will have, we have had, um, guests whose partners have died from, um, suicide, from, from drug abuse, from cancer. We have sudden death. It's like, I'm like I'm reeling off the selection of sweets I've got. Oh my God. But it is, there is, there's something for everybody. And one thing we found quite surprising was how many people were listening who weren't widowed. And the insight it was able to give them into how to support somebody grieving. And a lot of it applies to all sorts of bereavement. It doesn't, it isn't specific to losing your, your respective other. But if you think about it, if you're in a romantic relationship, or if you plan to be in one. Then one of you is going to die.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 5:29

True.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 5:29

The chances are you're not going to go out in a blaze of glory together. So you are going to either be widowed or your other half is going to be widowed. And I know the term widows is traditionally used to describe women whose husbands have died. But within this podcast we use it to describe anybody whose romantic partner has died. Whatever your orientation, sexuality, gender, you know, it doesn't matter. If you have lost somebody that you love, you are considered widowed. So I'm just going to let John tell you very briefly about his, um, how he ended up in the club that nobody wants to join.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 6:02

So I'm on a similar time line to you, but, um, I'd say that was a brutal death. Just a different kind of death. Just a

Rosie Gill-Moss: 6:08

different kind of brutality, really.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 6:10

So my, um, my dead wife is called Sarah and she had a, a genetic condition which caused bowel cancer in the family, and she got bowel cancer in the July of 2018, and was gone by November. Um, and those people who've witnessed cancer and what cancer does in that speed will know exactly how brutal that can be.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 6:36

Yeah, it's, it, um, we often have this conversation, and it's something that is talked about within when we get together, isn't it? And it's, what is worse? Is it worse to lose somebody suddenly and not know what happened? Or is it worse to have to watch the person you love deteriorate and Generally, I don't think there is a worse. I think it's I think both come with their own trauma and horror And even when you're expecting somebody to die, um You still have the shock of dying. Yeah, it's still

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 7:03

a shock when they actually do die. Yeah

Rosie Gill-Moss: 7:06

And one common theme that we we have a lot with um, cancel widows Uh, because primarily we do attract a slightly younger audience. So we you get a lot of um young You Seemingly fit and healthy people who aren't diagnosed because they're too young to have cancer. Yeah, and of course we know Everybody the sooner the better with diagnosis And actually, um the next interview that we're going to put out under season two He's an interviewer, Stacey Hill, and she talks about her husband's misdiagnosis because he had a, um, I think he was lactose intolerant, but I might not be dead on that. God. Clang. First clanger of season two. Um, and of course that can, the symptoms of cancer can often look like symptoms of a gastric illness or a flu or a terrible cough.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 7:55

The same happened with Sarah, she went into A& E twice, um. And both times she was sent home, it was either a neurovirus or a retrovirus. Mm hmm. Um, and it wasn't until we, I, I basically threw myself on the mercy of a local private hospital, that we, we got the answers we needed.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 8:12

Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a very, very scary journey, and for anybody that's out, is out there and is on this, this horrible journey at the moment, we just wanted to let you know that we, we, we see you, um, and we know that what you're going through is, is really, really tough. So now that we've given you a little bit of an idea of who we are, um, I thought I'd just also tell you a little bit how we met. So, John and I, we actually both joined WAI, which is Widowed and Young. If you're in the UK, you'll be aware of it, I imagine. And, um, We, a few of us, just really hit it off and we planned a weekend up at the Big Pink House up in Cumbria. And so we set up a separate, you know, WhatsApp group and John's birthday was coming up. And we established that actually, despite the Northern accent, he lived about 40 minutes from me. So I said, look, I'll take you out for something to eat. Because, let's face it, the first birthday without your spouse is pretty shit, right? It

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 9:10

is very shit, yeah.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 9:11

And we went for dinner, and one of us, um, me, got quite squiffy, and as John dropped me off, I sort of went into the house, and then I just, I don't know what made me do it, just impulsivity, and I just turned round, he wound the window down the car, and we kissed. And it was one of those moments where, It just felt really right. And, um, neither of us was really in a position to be wanting a relationship. We were both, um, still really reeling from the deaths of our spouses. And, and, we both have children. I have three children. John has one daughter. And it, we sort of thought, let's just keep this as a friendship with, you know, sorry dad, benefits. And actually what happened was something much deeper and much more permanent grew. And so we blended our families and John had a bit of a close call with COVID. Again, I'll refer you back to season one on that episode, but it's, it condensed the relationship in terms of we, um, we created a home together much quicker than we perhaps would have done, but. It's that baptism of fire thing, isn't it? You can survive lockdown with each other. You can probably and you nearly didn't. Um, But that wasn't through

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 10:28

living together. That

Rosie Gill-Moss: 10:30

was being an early

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 10:31

adopter.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 10:32

I didn't drive him to it. Um, um, we, we now live all together in a house in Kent and You know, it comes with challenges. We're raising four children, but most of the time we have a pretty happy, settled family. And I think initially when we started the podcast, I felt that might be a bit kind of insulting almost. And people might be like, well, I don't want to hear how happy you are and all that. But actually what we found is people do want to know that there's potential light at the end of the tunnel, that it isn't going to be nothing but bleakness and sadness and I remember saying to my mum, I'm just going to be sad for the rest of my life. I'm just going to survive. That's it.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 11:10

I was on the same thing as I was working out how old I'd be when Holly left home, and then I'd be completely on my own. Um, but, you know, that's the amount of time I had to settle it with myself.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 11:21

And it, and I guess it doesn't necessarily, you don't necessarily have to meet somebody else in order to be happy. But if you, the opportunity does cross your door, then I find that you take it, you know, I think that love is, is, well, it's what we're here for really, isn't it? Um, and I think one of the things we hope to do with the podcast was to kind of open up our world a little bit and show people who haven't experienced this. That if you do fall in love again, it doesn't mean that you don't love your, your partner, your, your husband, your wife. It means that your heart has the capacity to expand. And I know this is something I've talked about a few times, but it's like having a child. Isn't it? I mean, it's not, but you know what I mean. In terms of, you have your first one, and you think, right, how can I possibly love another one like this? You know, I, this, this little human has my entire heart. Well, you go on to have, some people go on to have more children, and you love them the same. So, don't be afraid, and don't feel like you're disrespecting or being disloyal to somebody if you do have the opportunity to love again. Lecture over.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 12:28

I just need to add something to it because it's a bit of a misconception, especially when you first entered the widow world, in that we have to live our life for the dead person. Mm. Um, whilst we do, by keeping their memories alive, you need to live the life for yourself. Yeah. Um, otherwise this is not, this entire thing is unbearable, if you're trying to live under someone else's shadow.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 12:47

Yeah, you're right. And, um, I struggle with the idea when people say, oh, he's still with you, he's still watching you, and I'm thinking, is he? That's kind of weird. I, and at what point is he watching me? Because, you know, I don't wanna be watched all the time. If

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 12:58

there's a pearl of gates, there's gonna be a fire isn't there? So

Rosie Gill-Moss: 13:02

we'll deal with that when the time comes, eh? Yeah. Now we just actually come back from a family holiday talking about, um, the dynamics of families. And I know that the Easter break can be pretty tough on, on all of us, actually, but I'm thinking primarily of people with children, because it's a two week holiday, it can be longer in some counties and. weather dependent there's not always much to do and it can feel very much like everybody's going together with family, they're doing all these lovely Instagram Easter hunts, they're going on holidays and that can be quite difficult when you're on your own or you maybe can't afford a holiday or you're just in the chicken and wine phase where all you really want to do is swig from a bottle of vodka and hide from the world. So I guess I wanted to just send out a little bit of a flag of solidarity to those of you who are, um, who are struggling. Um, and I guess to tell you that, I know it's cliche, but it does get easier, it does. We, we took the kids on, uh, we took them abroad, um, which I have to say the first time I flew with the kids on my own was, was awful. It was so stressful, and I thought at the time, I'm never doing this again. But of course the lure of the sunshine. And I think there's at least once on every holiday where I swear I'm never going on holiday with the kids again, but it, it actually was as far as family holidays go, it was pretty easy. It was a, just a package holiday, all inclusive resort in Turkey. Um, as is often the case, not quite as it advertised itself, but the weather was great, um, the ice cream was included. So I just. You know, live their best lives eating seven ice creams a day.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 14:44

And they embraced it.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 14:45

Yeah, yeah, they certainly did. Yeah, yeah. And, and we've, it was, it was a really nice holiday, if I'm honest. It was, um, but, there's a but. Whilst we were on holiday, it was the first day, and we'd gone down to the pool. As you do. And we thought, well, let's go down to the beach now. Um, despite the way my husband died, I'm, I'm, I love the sea and I love the beach and I feel free when I'm in the water. So I, I say this, not if there's a tide, not if there's a current. With

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 15:19

caveats.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 15:19

Yeah. This is, this was quite a nice little bay. It was very calm. It was like a milk pond. And we spent a couple of hours sort of, you know, sitting in the water and, you know, sunbathing. Yeah. And it wasn't until later that day that I realized that one of my rings was not on, and that ring was my engagement ring from Ben. And it, I'd had it remodeled in using my wedding ring and some added some gold to it and had it made into a, just a, a, like an everyday ring. And I, I can't, I feel ridiculous because I'm absolutely devastated. Um, I'm fairly certain it was lost in the sea. Uh. I mean, there's a serendipity in that, right? Um, and I did, I posted on local Facebook groups, and I hope that the power of social media might, might bring it back to me, but my, the odds are not good. Um, and actually my track record of finding, no, don't go there, that's too dark, no. Um, so, bye. It's a thing. It's just a thing.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 16:19

It doesn't No, no, no. I know that's what you're saying. Mm-Hmm. Um, and that's what we say when we're still alive. Mm-Hmm. But it's not, there's a lot of sentiment and attached to it. Um, and it's quite a magnitude, quite, quite the magnitude of a loss.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 16:35

Yeah. I think it's,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 16:36

and it shouldn't, you shouldn't disman dismiss it or diminish it. Diminish it.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 16:41

It's always, you'll also find

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 16:42

out, I can't speak.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 16:45

It's, it's just been a constant on my finger now for like nearly 20 years, and I think I really miss it. Um, Ben proposed to me in Rome. It wasn't um, it wasn't the most romantic of proposals. Romantic place, but it was a go on then, will you? Uh, We picked the ring together and it had to be resized because I've got fingers like sausages. So, all the sort of memories of getting lost in those cobbled streets, not being able to find the shop and that, I guess, it symbolized, um, hope and love and, uh, and like a time of innocence because I, or neither of us, knew what was waiting for us. And, yeah. I wouldn't change the life I had for the, for anything. I, I loved the life I had with Ben. And this ring, again, like, just, I feel quite emotional. But it's irreplaceable. And John very sweetly offered, you know, we could go back to Rome and find the shop and ask him to make me one. But I just I don't think that would work. I don't know. I don't know i'm gonna let it sit for a bit.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 17:46

Yeah

Rosie Gill-Moss: 17:47

um and see how I feel but I I I felt a form of bereavement over this this ring. It was really uh, it really surprised me actually the magnitude of the loss I felt And I think perhaps as an element of um, this isn't in my notes. I'm going i'm going rogue uh of Guilt attached to the facts. And I said this to you on holiday, I said, I should have gone and looked for bed. And you were like, what? No, you shouldn't. Don't be ridiculous, but I'm a qu. I was, I don't imagine it's expired now, but a qualified diver. And in this, I think at the back of my head, this, like this, I should have, I should have gone down and looked just to, I mean, it, it would've been stupid and reckless and foolish and I'm actually glad I didn't. But I didn't know I had that kind of repressed feeling until it because I was Because I was out with the kids goggles on just going. I mean the security guards really did think I was mental Because it was we had one day of bad weather and it was that day that went up and down like, um, Paddling up and down this little shallow of water looking for it um And I suppose I kept thinking each day I should go back out. I should go back out. What more can I do? um But at some point, much, much like I had to with Ben, I, I, you have to accept that something is lost. Yeah. And that you're not going to get it back. And it did cause me to go into a bit of a low. Um, it, it only lasted a day. I mean, it, it, it stayed with me, but I was able to kind of, I don't want to say suppress it, because that, I really don't like the thought of suppressing these emotions, but this was a family holiday, and I had four kids who needed me to be present, and So I sort of put it into that Pandora's box.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 19:27

Well, it actually moves into how you're supposed to deal with grief. Which is, you're supposed to let yourself sit with it. But then go, right, I'm done now. I'm going to put that away

Rosie Gill-Moss: 19:35

a bit. And most days I did have a cry, and I cried when we left. I just, as we drove, as the taxi took us to the airport. Because I really felt I was leaving it behind, and, but what's the alternative? I stay in Turkey? You know, it was nice, but I don't want to live there.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 19:49

No.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 19:49

Um, so, I, there isn't really another option other than to, to walk away. Um, but it did stir up a lot of feelings, and it, it actually, Kind of prompted some conversations with my children, um, and particularly my oldest, who's a, who's a strapping great big teenager now, and he's, he's a, I know everyone thinks our kids are lovely, but not always when they're teenagers, but he, he's just a, he's a really lovely kid, and he,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 20:13

he is,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 20:14

he's, he bore the brunt of his dad's death the hardest, really, because he was the oldest, um, and we talked a lot about his feelings, and I won't, I won't betray his confidence, because that's not fair, but it did, it, it prompted some conversations between us that we perhaps haven't had, Um, and this is, he won't mind me saying this, but one of the things was I haven't really talked about him about the possibility of Ben's body being found.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 20:36

Yeah.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 20:36

I'm aware that it's a, it's a possibility or it may not be. The, um, the RNLI said to me that he could be found tomorrow or it could be one of these unsolved mysteries in a hundred years. They don't know. Um, what he was wearing, he was wearing a, um, what's called a dry suit for, um, non divers out there. It basically is, um, you have to do a special course to learn to dive in them because it works differently, but you stay dry. Obviously, I'm closing the name, isn't it, really? I don't need to explain it. But he would have been weighted. Um, you know, you, it's designed to keep you at the bottom of the sea. So, but I guess we do need to prepare for that being a possibility and for that knock at the door or the phone call. Um, and I, I guess it, yeah, it prompted me to think I need to have that conversation with the kids because I don't want They've been through, they've had enough, uh, shock, they don't need another shock. They don't want the shock. And actually I, I did, um, I was, I may have talked about this last season, but I can't remember. Somebody did reach out to me because, um, a, a member of WAI, their husband had gone, um, missing during a climbing expedition and his body's never been found. And she was, uh, asking for advice on this presumption of death certificate, which I had to get for Ben. Uh, but unfortunately the, the, I don't think they were, I think it was because he was on his own, so there was no eyewitnesses. It looked like it was too, it wasn't going to be a possibility for her.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 22:00

Yeah.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 22:01

But, of course, these are things, that until you experience them, you don't know it's an issue.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 22:07

No. No, it's quite a, it's, well, you know, it could have been quite complicated, because you You didn't have access to his bank accounts. You had, there was finance and payments going out that you needed to do. And it, it could have, you could have lost your house and everything because

Rosie Gill-Moss: 22:22

Without my parents who are tenacious Supportive and and pretty pretty awesome. Actually, they were made multiple phone calls on my behalf multiple emails And things like they managed to get my mortgage put onto interest only for six months just to give me that breathing space But yeah, how about have I not been able to access his life insurance, which by no means made me wealthy It didn't actually even pay my mortgage off but it enabled me to you know It enabled me to breathe, you know? And I think money is another thing that's quite difficult to talk about when somebody dies because we all know the cliches of the family swarming around to hear the will reading and, you know, fighting over what's left.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 23:06

Sorry to just interrupt, but let's be clear. Wills change people.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 23:10

Yeah, they do, they do. And actually, um, Ben's will left everything to his mum. But because we had married since he'd written it, it was, um, it was void. But of course, those are things, you know, Ben had been married before. So if he, imagine if he, we weren't married. You know, there's, so I actually, while I, while we are here, if you haven't got a will, please get one. Yeah, please get one because it the, if you genuinely don't know whether you're going to die tomorrow. Yeah. It's a morbid, horrible thought. But I, Ben didn't know he was gonna die that day.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 23:43

No. And if you are, um, not a widow and listening to us and you're in a couple. Just do a bit of an investigation into power of attorneys for each other.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 23:54

Okay, yeah, yes, of course, because when you were in a coma,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 23:57

you couldn't do anything because I was in a coma.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 23:59

No, we weren't married and I had no legal guardianship for Holly or anything like that, which again, these are all things that you don't need to know until you need to know, but the one life insurance and a will, um, even if you have life insurance that will cover your mortgage when you die, um, I can only assume that Ben took it out when we lived in our old house. Because I can't understand how he got away with life insurance that didn't pay the mortgage off.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 24:21

Um, yeah, probably.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 24:22

But, that, that, that's by the by. Um, but yes, I, then I went and had my will done. Um, because I, I guess I realised that if I was to die suddenly, there was nothing in place to say who would look after my children. And that you know, even if you haven't got assets you need to write down who you want to take your children because yeah, and actually if there is if the children come with a um, Financial inheritance, of course that again can bring out the birds for people so yeah, I this is becoming a bit of a tangent here, but I Get a will if you haven't got a will get a will It doesn't it's not always expensive either There's lots of people that would do it and lots of charities that will do it for a donation

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 25:03

Yeah,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:03

so it's um, yeah get a will

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 25:05

Uh, and we even have some of our guests who do that as a business now, don't they?

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:09

We do, Emma Gray. Yes, Emma Gray. Rainbow Rainbow

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 25:13

Hunting.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:14

Rainbow Hunting. There we go, there we go. I don't like to go out there. There you go.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 25:17

Free pluquerie there, Emma.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 25:18

And, um, I don't know, I'm just thinking about an anecdote from Holiday which I'm going to share because In this world, you become a little bit desensitized to, and we're quite dark humored, that's how we really met, isn't it? And sometimes we'll say things and you just, you watch the other person look at you like you are a monster. But it also can be quite funny sometimes, um, while we were on holiday there was a dad on his own with two girls at the same resort. Um. I, I can't help myself. I feel like, I picture you on that first holiday you went on with Holly. And this idea of you just being on your own and grieving and, I think if you're a woman it's easier. Because women do tend to chat and, you know, I, I just think we find it easier to communicate. And um, so this dad was just sort of, his girls were playing with our girls and, and I just, I just went to him, dead or divorced. I don't know what. I was like, Is your partner, are you on your own because your partner's dead or are you divorced? And he just looked at me and I was like, oh no, that's not normal conversation, is it? Well,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 26:23

obviously not dead.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 26:24

No, no, I know. Otherwise he didn't know. Um, but I guess that's another thing is you do, you sort of, your compassion and the way you view people changes. I guess. And. You're always thinking, are, are they okay? Like, because we know what it's like to be that kind of troll that's on the outside looking in. Um, but yeah, it's, it's dead or divorced. It's just, don't ask people that out of the blue. It doesn't, they don't like it. Well with that, um, we'll draw the episode to a bit of a close. But we are, I'm also aware, going into the final term of the school year. And, for us, this is going to symbolise quite a big change because we've got two children in year six. Now, my son Hector, he's going to stay in his school. He's in a special, specialist school. Um, but. Your daughter Holly is going to be moving up to secondary. She

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 27:19

is

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:20

and I just we'll talk about this more as it gets closer, but I think it's quite um, Quite important that we acknowledge how difficult transitions like this are without their other parent around Because you have to choose the school We actually didn't get into the school we chose. So we are now playing we're playing chicken at the education authority It's not a game

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 27:42

of chicken

Rosie Gill-Moss: 27:44

We've declined the school. Um because it's The worst school in the county, that's what we got offered. So we're just, we're playing chicken. We're not moving, they're not moving. We'll see. Hoolingfest. Yeah, Hoolingfest. But, you have to do all of this, and you're getting them ready for this kind of next chapter of their lives, which we know is going to be quite challenging, because teenagers are Challenging and that the difference between primary and secondary is so enormous, isn't it? I should do an

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 28:16

intermediary.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 28:16

Yeah Well, the americans do don't they they have middle school?

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 28:19

Yeah.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 28:20

Yeah, because you go I mean, they just look so little they look massive in year six and then suddenly they look really little and I guess Lots of people out there will be happy to, you know, we've been through our youngest starting school, we've had one go to, my, ours go to secondary already, so we, we've a little practice in this, but I think each time, there is, it stirs up a lot of big feelings, and what ifs, and I guess lots of that, if they could only see them now, that, that feeling. So, for other people out there who are perhaps gearing up to their child's starting school, perhaps who are leaving secondary school, perhaps they're flying the nest and going off to university, whatever. Big events are coming up. I suppose what I'm trying to say in a rather convoluted way is that whatever we are going to share with you what comes our way, um, aspects of our life as it happens, kind of real life widowing, if you will. And, um, and we hope that that will be helpful to you. And if you are battling any issues that you haven't heard us talk about, please do send us suggestions. We're more than happy to receive them. And we are taking bookings for season two. We are booked up until I think the end of summer, possibly even up to October. I

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 29:32

think there might be some gaps in In the week. Okay. It's in the scheduling system. So,

Rosie Gill-Moss: 29:36

if you are interested in coming on and telling your story, um, but you're perhaps thinking, oh, it's not quite yet, get yourself into the system. We will check in with you before we stick a microphone at you, so you can, you can, you can postpone, um, what we would ask though is, we've had, we've only had one person just completely cancelled, we'd just ask if you aren't going to be able to make your schedule start if you'd just let us know, because we do have a waiting list, so. Don't like to be bossing,

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 29:58

Uh, and to fill in the form, just go to our website, www.widowaf.com, and at the top there is a button that says, tell us your story.

Rosie Gill-Moss: 30:06

And on the website we have Woodstock tickets. So again, for the uninitiated, Woodstock is our festival, which we're going to be, we're hoping is going to be an annual thing. Um, it's being held in Kent and it's, it, we, we are only able to sell, um, 500 tickets. We've kept it fairly. Smallish because we've never done this before but tickets are selling guys So if you do want to come you will need to get your ticket fairly soon Um, and also we've got merchandise on there, so if you'd like a stylish WAF hoodie, or a mug, or a knock off Stanley Cup. Or a hat. Or a hat. We're just listening. Uh, then that's also available on our website. Um, but for now guys, thank you for listening. I will be back with you with an interview with Stacey Heal. Look forward to speaking to you next.

Jonathan Gill-Moss: 30:53

Goodbye everybody. Bye

Rosie Gill-Moss: 30:54

bye.