S2:E1 Art and Abolition: Crenshaw Dairy Mart's Creative Path to Liberation

Embark on an enlightening journey with the passionate voices of Crenshaw Dairy Mart's Ashley Blakeney, Ale, and Noe Olivas as they define the essence of abolition through the lens of art and resistance. Each guest unveils their unique interpretation of abolition, interweaving their cultural narratives and life stories into a tapestry of activism that challenges and inspires. Ashley, the executive director of CDM, demystifies the idea of abolition as more than a concept—it's a movement for dismantling oppressive structures and crafting a world where every need finds fulfillment. Meanwhile, Ale merges the worlds of fashion and activism, and Noe grounds his work in the rich soil of his family's history.

Within the nurturing walls of the Crenshaw Dairy Mart, discover how art serves as a catalyst for healing and spiritual growth, anchored by the triad of ancestry, abolition, and spirituality. Explore innovative programs such as the North Star Healing Generations exhibit and the Abolitionist Pods, which take the form of intimate geodesic domes, demonstrates the tangible intersection of artistic expression and social transformation. These spaces symbolize a sanctuary for contemplative growth, encouraging community healing through the communal embrace of art. 

Join us as we acknowledge the profound impact of African diasporic religions on the spirit of political resistance, exploring the capacity of art and music to fuel the fires of liberation. In this heartfelt exchange, we draw connections between personal spiritual paths and the proactive nature of abolitionist endeavors, while also envisioning a future where resources flow towards nurturing artists as agents of change. As Abolition April unfurls its banner of joy and community solidarity, we look forward to the unfolding celebrations, steeped in creative resilience and driven by a fervent belief in the power of compassion, justice, and the flourishing of every community member.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

One, two, three, four. Welcome to the Abolitionist Sanctuary podcast, where we consider critical conversations and call to actions at the intersections of faith and abolition. I am your host, reverend Dr Nakia Smith-Robert, the founder and executive director of Abolitionist Sanctuary. We are a national coalition leading a faith-based abolitionist movement. Okay, we're here with Crenshaw Dairy Mart. I am excited that they are joining us for our first week of Abolition April and to celebrate art and resistance.

Speaker 1: 0:51

For those of you who are new, abolition April is an awareness recognition month presented by Abolitionist Sanctuary and aims to highlight past and present freedom struggles and collectively imagine abolitionist futures that advance policies, transformative justice strategies and radicalize goals to mobilize society and religious communities toward building a more just and equitable world of communal thriving beyond oppressive powers, punishment, policing and prisons. Abolition April is for all of us, which is why we need your help in signing a petition on changeorg to ask Mayor Karen Bass to officially pass April Abolition Awareness Month in the city of Los Angeles. Also, please engage our content on social media at Abolitionist Sanctuary and DM us your favorite organization or person or team who's doing abolition work. Let's get this Art in Resistance week started with our wonderful guests Ashley, ale and Noe of the Crenshaw Dairy Mart.

Speaker 2: 1:59

Welcome Hi, thank you for having us.

Speaker 1: 2:04

Well, welcome to the call. Can you just tell us we'll start with Ashley, ale and Noe is the order we'll keep. Can you tell us your pronouns and give us a visual of how you are presenting yourself in this space, what you're wearing, what does your space look like, some features aesthetically, and then finally tell us who are your people?

Speaker 2: 2:27

I love that. I'm Ashley Blakeney. I'm the executive director of Crenshaw Dairy Mart. I am a hazelnut complexion black woman with long brown, curly hair wearing a green button up, no makeup. Today it's been a long day and I am in my home office with two pieces of artwork behind me that are brown and gold and very grounding. And my people, my people, are long standing Black folk that I don't know how far back many generations they go, but I do know my father's family. It's from Madagascar and has a lot of Southern roots, and my mother's father is an Italian man who came over to Ellis Island and we've just got a lot of Black and Italian and good food in our lineage.

Speaker 1: 3:36

I love it. I love it. Thank you, ale.

Speaker 3: 3:42

Hi everybody. I'm Ale and my pronouns are she and they. I am wearing. I'm a brown person with a little bit of pink in my hair and wearing a colorful button up. I'm sitting in my living room slash kitchen with some artwork and lots of plants behind which you can't totally see, but they're back there, and my people are from Guatemala. Both of my parents are refugees, survivors of the civil war in Guatemala during the 1980s. They are my mothers of Kachik and Maya Indian descent and my people are Guatemalan and my homeland is LA.

Speaker 4: 4:37

Hi everyone, my name is Noel Olivas Key him pronouns and what I'm wearing is just a black poofy jacket. In southern california it's a little cold, but it's probably only like 60 degrees out here. Um, I have long hair, curly hair, uh, wearing a beanie as well, because I'm, you know, covering my head, and that's why and I'm currently in Charlie James Gallery in Chinatown my people, my gente, my family, is from Chihuahua, mexico. From my dad's side, they're from specifically from Durango, and then my mom's side, they have a long history in Chihuahua as well.

Speaker 1: 5:22

Yeah, that's who I am well, yeah, that's who I am. Ashley, can you tell us a bit about yourself? I know you shared your pronouns and who your people were earlier, but just tell us something else. We don't know a bit about yourself. And as you are thinking about who you are, who are you in relationship to abolition? How do you define abolition, and perhaps has that meaning changed over time?

Speaker 2: 5:47

Yeah, absolutely so. I'm Ashley Blakeney. I'm the executive director of Crenshaw Dairy Mart, an art lover, trained photographer with varying relationships to photography, music lover, I said earlier and I really liked it where people lead with love, I lead with music. It is the only thing I know how to talk about outside of this conversation. So how do I define abolition? Yeah, I am one of those people that always says abolition, depending on the day, has a different fit to me and has a different definition. You know, abolition at its core, at least in my understanding, is the dismantling of systems of harm and specifically oppressive systems, and I like to add a caveat to it that it's also the imagination and the re-envisioning and the creation of a new future and really thinking about innovative ways that we can get free and stay free and have all of our needs and necessities met all of the time. So that's how I define abolition today.

Speaker 1: 7:00

Yeah, and if I were taking a peek at your your playlist, what are some of the songs that are on there?

Speaker 2: 7:07

if music is what you're leading, oh, not you asking my favorite question right now. Um, my, my partner, very surprisingly like with a random pick, uh just gifted me a donna summer record, um, the love trilogy, and it has been the only thing I've played every morning for the last week and has increased my mood substantially. So right now I'm just in a donna summer era I love that love.

Speaker 1: 7:42

Trilogy Donna Summers that's amazing um. Thank you for sharing that, ale how about you tell me about? Um? Who are you? What are some things that we can learn about who you are and how you're thinking about or defining abolition?

Speaker 3: 7:57

um, I'm Ale and I'm the programs and operations associate at the Crenshaw Dairy Mart. I also identify as an abolitionist. I'm a lover of fashion, I'm a student of fashion, I'm a lover of art and aesthetics and popular culture. I'm a Real Housewives historian and it's important because it impacts, it informs my abolitionist practice. But um, I also hear more about that.

Speaker 3: 8:32

I identify as an abolitionist, um, and for me, abolition is is a world in which, um, there are no prisons, there are no borders, um, but it's also in the ways that we relate to each other. I think that's the. That's the abolitionist, abolitionist. The abolition that I practice is in the way that we relate to each other, in the ways that we create communities that are safe, care, that aren't rooted in punitive practices, that aren't rooted in state violence and that aren't rooted in systems of oppression.

Speaker 1: 9:11

Amazing Thank you for sharing. No way. How about you? Who are you and how are you thinking about abolition?

Speaker 4: 9:17

Yeah, absolutely, thank you for that question. I'm one of the co-founders of the Crenshaw Dairy Mart, so very lucky to be right next to Patrice Cutlers and Ali Reza, just kind of like doing this project together and also with Ashley and Ali, shout out to Vic and everyone else on the team, but just like really grateful for the team that we have. But I'm an artist, you know, I'm a maker, I love to make things. That's, that's the way that I relate to this world. That's how I communicate, that's how I pass down the messages that need to be communicated to.

Speaker 4: 9:55

As far as, like, thinking about abolition, I'm a teacher, I'm an educator, I'm a healer, I'm also a student, you know I'm a teacher, I'm an educator. Uh, I'm a healer. Um, I'm also a student, you know. I think that's. That's something that, uh, I'm always kind of like, uh, returning to cause. I feel like, uh, you know, just learning about life, you're never like, you're always learning something new. Um, and as far as abolition, like, I definitely agree with Ashley and Ale just kind of like dismantling systems that don't work for us, you know, um, but on the other, on the other end, I'm really starting to think about abolition and it's in a healing way as well, too.

Speaker 4: 10:35

I think part of it is like healing, um, getting rid of things that don't work out as far as systems, but also within ourselves too, um, um, thinking a lot about, um, you know, caring for ourselves first. You know, like, how do we be abolitionists? And like showing up for ourselves. You know, loving ourselves and thinking about this idea of love. You know, thinking about the idea of love in the lens of Bell Hooks, in the lens of Dr King, talking about you, talking about what's it really mean to courageously love.

Speaker 4: 11:08

I keep returning to that idea, just because it's not an easy thing to do, even starting with ourselves, I think, just thinking about returning, like being kind to ourselves and, you know, practicing those things daily and caring for ourselves and doing things that that are good for us, and then then from there, extending it to the community and, and it's almost kind of like modeling it. So I feel like this abolition is like a constant practice. You know it's like you're modeling it for yourself and then for your community, because in the end, we're trying to really imagine a new future.

Speaker 1: 11:55

Yes, yeah, I really like that emphasis that abolition is a lifestyle right. I'm an abolitionist as a parent, as a partner, as a professor, as a preacher, as a person. It really is an ethic for me. It's a practice, it's a way of being, and for me, my abolitionist values are compassion, creativity, courage, care and community. So those five values ground the ways in which I practice abolition, and for me, abolition is summarized by three R's, and this is just my way of connecting to abolition and it's to repair harms, restore relationships and rebuild more just and equitable systems, our communities of care. So thank you that you were able to share who you are and your definitions of abolition. And so I'm wondering how does who you are and your understanding of abolition inform the vision for Crenshaw Dairy Mart? So tell us what is the Crenshaw Dairy Mart and how did it get started? What's the story? And perhaps that's a question for the co-founder and as well as for our executive director, ashley.

Speaker 4: 13:11

Sure, I can definitely start, I think, just like just kind of painting the picture. You know, just CDM is like it's a dairy mart, you know it's like a liquor store, uh, on crinshaw boulevard and, um, the. The way it all kind of started is, um, you know, patrice, myself and ali reza, we were all in grad school and at a usc and we were having conversations about, you know, imagining what, what would it look like if we brought artists and abolitionists together and specifically in the antelope valley is kind of like starting there, um, looking at land and just imagining like, wouldn't it be cool? Like to what would the conversations be like? What, what, what would we be making? What you know thinking about, still, flower farms, uh, you know what would be growing. You know things like, uh, and as we are talking about this in our thread called Free the Land, you know it's almost like we manifested it, we sent it to the university and it kind of this opportunity landed in our lap where Patricia's caretaker or child caretaker was opening up a preschool happened to be at that Crenshaw location and one side was the dairy mart and the other side was an old building that was a laundry mat. At once it was a worship space at one time and unfortunately she was trying to do like a preschool there. But you know, through the city of Inglewood there was a lot of permit process and you know it's a struggle, you know, and she ended up inviting us to also taking over the lease on the other end. So it was, it was kind of just.

Speaker 4: 14:59

I guess we always say it's like through the invitation came through uh, patrice's son, you know, just like that kind of landed there and and from there we just kind of like really incubated, we stayed still I, we listened, we uh invited the community, we um were brainstorming. We didn't necessarily uh wanted to start something without like listening. I think listening is a really, really uh critical um thing within abolition as well. Just kind of like hearing each other out, but also like what is the space need? But also I'm thinking about listening also spiritually too like what is, is the spirit saying Like why are we here, why this place? And through the invitations of like artists and even one of the artists right now it's a photo was one of the first invited people that were like hey man, what do you, what do you, what do you see in this space, what do you imagine you know like, and a lot of the incubation kind of came through that stage, see, in this space, what do you imagine you know like, and a lot of the incubation kind of came through that stage. And also like, as artists, we're also looking at the history uh uh, black owned galleries and the 60s. Just kind of looking at that history and ali reza stories is like has been like leaning on that, that, um, that research part of it, and just kind of.

Speaker 4: 16:20

I think the three pillars that we always kind of that we landed on through our brainstorming session is ancestry, abolition, and sorry I'm blanking out for a second but I'll get it Abolition, ancestry and healing. Of course those are the three points. You know, when we think about like three points, a triangle, you know that's like the strongest structure in nature, but just like looking at the past of like what are information that we can learn from our fellow comrades, our fellow ancestors, our fellow teachers, and how do we, how are we going to take this into the future? So like really paying attention to that but also calling in our own ancestors from the cool waters and just kind of. And then, as far as like abolition, as we kind of like talked about. It was just like a framework of coming into the space and how we're going to like participate with our community.

Speaker 4: 17:19

And you know, like the big foundational point is like healing. Healing is the main thing, is like, how do we come in here with leading, with care, leading with love, leading with openness, you know, leading with listening. So that's that healing process. That's really important, you know, I think. And it's a hard one too, because healing doesn't oh, it's not easy, it's not, doesn't always come easily, there's not smooth, there's those rough points. You got to confront certain things that you haven't confronted in a long time in order to be the better self. You know what I mean. Or even like having tough conversations to courageous conversations with each other, like hey, we, you know, just like really showing up in this space for each other. And that's what CDMm crenshaw dairy mart is, you know.

Speaker 1: 18:08

Um, I hope that was helpful yeah, absolutely, I very much, so thank you for sharing that. Ashley, do you want to add to that?

Speaker 2: 18:18

um, I think the only thing I'll add that was so beautiful in a way, um, I think the only thing I'll add is really emphasizing the art collective of it all, and that you know we really are a space that is intended for an uplifting artist and that we do keep art at the center and at the forefront. So I often will say that you know, cdm is where art and abolition intersect and, as Noe mentioned our three pillars, everything that we do connects directly back to all three of those pillars, which you know we'll probably get into. But that's all I'll add.

Speaker 1: 18:59

Yeah, I really love the discernment process that happened. You said that you were still there was a spiritual component of listening, and I love how it was a partnership that started in grad school. So it happened organically and with this kind of envisioning right, just dreaming. You know, if we could create right and that is such the hallmark of abolition it's if we can create a better world. What would it look like? And you all took that question and actually did something with it by innovating the Crenshaw Dairy Mart.

Speaker 3: 19:54

What are some of the programs that are available at Crenshaw Dairy Mart. Can you tell us about particularly the Abolitionist Pod and other exhibits, galleries and other programs that are available? The most recent exhibit was North Star Healing Generations, which was a really beautiful collaboration between Patrice Cullors, one of our co-founders, and Rita Nazareno, who is a Filipina artist and artisan they have this amazing workshop in the Philippines where they make these beautiful wicker furniture and Nisi Berry, who's a formerly incarcerated black literary um, and they created um these limited edition bags which are um, which each have a design of a star. The exhibit itself was incredibly beautiful, um. They were displayed in a way that um that had a in the in the same constellation as as how. That would lead you to the North Star. So I was incredibly creative, incredibly powerful. That was one of the most recent exhibits that we just had and it closed back in mid-March.

Speaker 3: 21:02

Currently we're working on the Abolitionist Pod. We have two current. The first pod lives at our space. It's the Abolitionist Pod prototype and it's a geodesic dome that has living plants and herbs, succulents, and it's a way for it's a space for for us to be able to come in and reflect, think about what abolition looks like for us, um, and the first pod was created um right outside of mocha. Uh, for, for the re-rise initiative, um, that came that was back in 2021. Is that correct, noah?

Speaker 4: 21:42

2020. Yeah 2020.

Speaker 3: 21:46

So 2020 was the first abolitionist pod. The second one was built at the Care First Village, the Hilda Solis Care First Village, which is in downtown LA. It's a transitional housing location for folks. And the second one was built in 2021. Uh, for folks. And the second one was built in 2021. Um and um. That one also has that's a permanent structure and it also has lots of succulents. Um, we recently went to go check it out and we saw how much the, some of the aloe vera and like the, the, the herbs in there, the, the plants in there, have been really feeding back into the residents of the space. Um, and then our third abolitionist pot is currently in the making. We're in the process of building designing, getting all that started, so break it down.

Speaker 1: 22:37

Let's kind of slowly walk through the abolitionist pod. So let's begin with the term you'd use.

Speaker 3: 22:44

It was geodesic dome, and maybe Noah can help me a little bit, since he's one of the great visionaries behind it.

Speaker 4: 22:55

Yeah, absolutely. I guess the question is to break it down and what is a geodesic dome, right?

Speaker 1: 23:03

And how are we spelling geodesic, oh?

Speaker 4: 23:05

man, I'm so bad with spelling.

Speaker 3: 23:16

I think it's G-E-O-D-E-S-I-C.

Speaker 4: 23:17

Yes, so geodesic dome, it's very, it's a very interesting structure. Basically, it's triangles that are put together to create a sphere, um, and there's different types of uh, geodesic domes in the sense of, like, the more triangles you use, the, the more rounder it is. Uh, the, the, the, the. The system that we're using is it's a 2d type of thing, where it has like two different measurements. It's a little bit more like angular, but we kind of enjoy that. And part of like the research in the geodesic dome it's definitely like we're definitely inspired by indigenous architecture. So we're thinking about homes, a lot of the Kumeyaay down south in Southern California, using these more structural domes, and also you kind of see it also in Los Angeles I'm forgetting the spot, but it's near the beach, but it's just a very like hut type of feeling. Um, but more of the geodesic dome is coming from this architect um named buxton and fuller. Um, that kind of became like a craze in the 60s. You know, like more like hippie type of thing, like, oh, yeah, this is like the new way of living. But it's really interesting as we're kind of like looking at, uh, uh, some of like the collaborations that that um, that buxton mcfuller was doing, and and in our research with ali reza, we were just like, oh wow, like june jordan poet, june jordan's here, june jordan was talking to buxton mcfuller about you know, like what would it look? Like this in Harlem, like what would this do to the community? What would happen in this space? So, really looking at like programming in space I think that's a really big thing in architecture Like not just, like you know, form, but like what's actually happening in the space, how are folks participating? What is this area doing? What? What are what is this area doing?

Speaker 4: 25:25

So, like, looking through those, like, uh, those, um, uh, research, uh and articles, um, you know, it was very much a community project. You know imagining, like you know, this is the space where a garden will be at, or this would be like a, a space of like uh, conversation and things like that. So, looking at the geodesic dome and just to give you like an idea, like the, the size is like a diameter of like 20 feet and it's about like 12 to 13 feet tall, so it's a pretty small, intimate space, but still enough to fit in at least like 10 people. Like circuit, like, if we do, like a healing circle, uh, standing around it. That's what we usually do, like the, the pod at the crinshaw dairy mart, where, you know, with the fellows and but basically, uh, imagining, uh, yeah, that's kind of like a geodesic dome, just like, kind of as far as the shape of it and part of it too, just I just want to add this quick note which is really interesting is that, um, because it's around and, uh, buxom and fuller, was also talked like, talking about it in relationship to the world and also in relationship to organisms, in relationship to the galaxies, and but particularly, um, the dandelion, and we all know the dandelion is really significant and and the movement, you know, as far as like what?

Speaker 4: 26:46

Like it's a weed and this weed can grow at it like little crevices, you know, and sometimes people throw that weed away because they think it's a weed and it's ugly, but it's something really precious and actually really nutritious for us, for our digestive system, if we make it into a tea. And there's these videos of like you know these like dandelion, it growing and and blowing. You know, obviously, as we're like kids, we blow these dandelions and we blow wishes and maybe we blow prayers, you know, and tying that into abolition is just like blowing that freedom, blowing that imagination. So that's all part of the design of the structure. Like we're looking at many things and new things are coming up as well, as we're like continuing the research continuing the research.

Speaker 1: 27:41

So let me stop you there, because you preached a whole sermon on dandelions and I might have to preach it the next time I'm at the pulpit. That was powerful. Just tell me quickly. I'm really trying to understand this. So I understand the structure and the kind of role of urban planning and ways to help communities be self-sustaining. What was the connection you were making between the structure and the dandelion? How did we get to that?

Speaker 4: 28:06

The shape of it. It's around this.

Speaker 1: 28:08

The shape of it Okay.

Speaker 4: 28:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:11

Got it.

Speaker 2: 28:11

Thank you, Ashley do you want to add anything to the abolitionist pods? Yeah, I'll share a little bit of the why. Um, I'm also just marinating on. We blow prayers like that's, that's such a beautiful line. No way, um, wow, powerful right as you would say.

Speaker 4: 28:32

Uh, actually that's a bar, that's a bar that's a bar, right?

Speaker 1: 28:36

no way that's a bar. I was truly. I'll say that's a bar, but that's a bar, right?

Speaker 2: 28:41

no, that's a bar, I was truly, I'll say that's a bar, but that's a bar, um, yeah, so you know when? When the pod. I'll just talk a little bit about what's in the pod and and and the why. So the, the abolitionist pod, right when it's at its peak, it can hold twelve hundred plants, and so the original version of the pod that is now the skeleton that's at the Crenshaw Dairy Mart held around twelve hundred plants, and then there's a solar panel system, so that itrenshaw Dairy Mart was observing during 2020 specifically, and so during 2020, the co-founders worked and supported Lauren Halsey and the food boxes that she was doing with some of everything.

Speaker 2: 29:36

Crenshaw Dairy Mart was contributing art kits to that project, and then, additionally, in 2020, crenshaw Dairy Mart was the home to the Englewood community fridge for a while, and so there were all of these different models that we were seeing of how our community was showing up for our community right when other systems weren't showing up for our community, and we're really thinking about what is a role that Crenshaw Dairy Mart can play in this moment.

Speaker 2: 29:59

And so that's kind of how the abolitionist pod was born was looking at a way of how to contribute to supporting our people in ways that they need it most, and at that time it was access to produce and access to food. And so we kind of just took like an art, abolition and architecture approach to that. And so, as we build these abolitionist pods, the intent is that they are installed in various places around the county where people will need them most, where people need a green space, where people may need access to produce, where people may need a space to just take a nap in the middle of the day surrounded by some plants, right Like that's really the ultimate goal in how we're trying to scale these pods.

Speaker 1: 30:43

Wow, I really like this for many reasons, but I find it interesting that the geodesic structure an alternative space to cages right. That when there is an enclosed structure that is not a prison, that is not death dealing but instead a part of life, generating resources for people to thrive, that it becomes a part of an abolitionist geography that is opposed to the carceral geography. Right. That when Ruthie Gilmore says abolition is a place, that place is the abolitionist pod, right. So I think it's just profound. And also the collaborative, communal aspect that you can place this pod on the grounds of a church, organizations and parks right. So I would really be interested in seeing how churches can partner with Crenshaw Dairy Mart and use their real estate to create and to house and abolitionist pods as geodesic structures. To me is very profound and the ways in which you are helping communities to become self-sustaining. And it reminds me of.

Speaker 1: 32:30

I'm working with an organization in Malawi called the Othaka Harka Foundation and it's founded by a woman in her Malawi village and she is doing something very similar. She has brought together volunteers in her village. Despite chiefs who told her that she could not do this because she was a girl, she was able to subversively work within her village to combine their resources using the mutual aid model that you all mentioned. Right, and each person had to give seven cents, which is extremely sacrificial. But as they pooled their resources together, they were able to build irrigation models so that they can harvest in wet and dry seasons. They were able to give people rocket stoves. They were able to do literacy programs where school-aged children teach the elders how to read. They were able to do healthcare prevention with cervical cancer screening and education around HIV AIDS no-transcript. And I would love to be a part of that.

Speaker 1: 34:01

And my vision for Abolitionist Sanctuary is to build a faith-based abolitionist movement, and a part of that is connecting churches be more broad and ecumenical to include other religious traditions. But how can we connect churches to liberationist movements such as yourself so that we can join in building these abolitionist futures? And this abolitionist pod sounds very promising. I can see churches wanting to host that. So you talked the abolitionist pod in your exhibitions and how Crenshaw Dairy Mart is located at the intersections of art and resistance. Um, how is art used as a form of healing from traumatic induced conditions caused by interlocking systems of oppression, including poverty and prisons? And I think this is a good pivot, based on what we're talking about with the role of abolitionist pods. But specifically, how can we heal trauma-induced conditions caused by interlocking systems of oppression, with the function of art as resistance?

Speaker 4: 35:27

Nowhere you want to start, or you want me to start, sure, yeah, no, no, it's, it's cool. I was, um, yeah, I just think about like making, just making in general, I I think that's that's really um, it's healing, you know to to make something out of your hand, to use your imagination, to, to exercise that muscle. I don't think, I think just thinking about, like the schools these days, like the first thing to take out of the budget is the arts. You know, that's like taking out imagination right there, and I've done like some workshops where, like I would come to these schools, to schools that that have eliminated their, their art program, and then, like, then we like just having fun with these kids and just like, all right, cool, today we're just gonna like play with color, or today we're gonna like play, uh, do assemblage, and talk to them about the history, about assemblage and just using ordinary objects just to make art, and I think just like witnessing that and just kind of like seeing how they interact with the material. But also there is a moment where they're expressing themselves.

Speaker 4: 36:28

You know, and I'm just thinking about how art is, is, is is a tool, art is a tool of like expression, but also art is a tool of storytelling too. So, um, as, as the other thing I'm thinking about is, like you know, like using the language of art and seeing, I see it as kind of like that's that's the way I write, you know, if I can kind of compare it, you know, and that's the way of storytelling, storytelling of, of, of, of my own family history, family history, um, being able to share that, um, able to share, uh, I think, part of like my own spirituality, uh, ways of healing, and I think, just even the exercises of, of just making art. There's a lot of healing in that, and and and there is, like I don't want to go like too back in history, but obviously, like, like art therapy is a thing too, you know, as as kind of like showing or expressing something that we can't say, because sometimes, like you know, I grew up in a household where I didn't have particular tools. I didn't know how to express uh, uh, hey, I'm angry right now. Can I have some time? You know what I mean? Or, like, I need some time to chill.

Speaker 1: 37:46

It's that we just fought right. Or shut down or run.

Speaker 4: 37:51

Exactly, and I think there's a lot of tools and a lot of teachings, a lot of metaphors is like, you know, if we can have this even more and you know, teaching about imagination, teaching more about making art, and in the earlier stages too, like I'm talking about preschool, elementary, like all that. I think that's the thing that I'm curious about. As far as, like, healing and having art as a metaphor to talk about these tools to heal, or even, you know, and I think a lot about the abolitionist pod is like those are type of programs, programs that we're incorporating as like to start that conversation. It's like that. It's just that's the starting point of making art and then, from there, opening up the conversation and being vulnerable with each other.

Speaker 1: 38:39

Absolutely. And when we talk about the huge budgets for policing and prisons, if we were to reallocate those funds towards art programs, the major benefits that would be given to communities right to become self-sustaining would be amazing. You talk a lot about spirituality no Way. I'm curious to know each of you if you would be willing to share a bit about how spirituality informs your practices and understanding of abolition sure, I guess I'll go first.

Speaker 4: 39:23

It's everything, you know, the more I like new art like this is my, this is my worship, this is my connection to god, this is my peaceful space, understanding myself more. I grew up in a catholic, uh family, so, like, spirituality, things like that, has always been around me. But I've also explored in my own, like you know, gone, you know, just exploring other different traditions as well, like going to, uh, christian churches, baptist churches, I mean even pentecostal churches. You, you know what I mean, like I'm, I'm into it, you know, like I'm, I'm, I've been searching for it, you know, and I've been wanting to understand more and more of like what is my connection to this earth, what is my connection to the universe, what's my connection to my people and just also thinking about you know, just like, scientifically, we're made out of stardust. You know what I mean, like we're connected to the cosmos, and that means that you and I we're like organisms that are actually supposed to work together instead of against each other. But, particularly right now, like I practice the Ifa tradition.

Speaker 4: 40:39

Now, like I practice the Ifa tradition it's a Yoruba tradition and a lot of my work talks a lot about that too, just kind of exploring about different deities, different, you know, just prayers. You know there's a particular discipline that I have too of like, uh, prayers, but also thinking about prayers and not just praying but actually putting it into action too. Like I think that's the biggest thing, like I think that's part of like abolition too, just like all right, cool, like we gotta organize and act and do this together, not just like preach it, and I think that's like kind of like you know where like I'm at in my spirituality, where it's just so like that's that's the thing that I always have to fall back on and it's a reminder. But yeah, that's, that's a little bit my spiritual background. That's really helpful. And when you think about the church, that's a little bit my spiritual background.

Speaker 1: 41:40

That's really helpful. And when you think about the church, there's so much inactivity and silence against oppression that many churches, their silence, is a stance right. And how can we use our spirituality, our religion, our belief system as catalysts for change right To mobilize us towards action is extremely important. Does Ashley or Ale want to jump in on the spirituality piece?

Speaker 2: 42:11

maybe music as a form of spirituality or yeah, that's really funny because I actually did not grow up religious at all no one in my family was, so I didn't have really much of a guiding light in any higher form or being outside of music.

Speaker 2: 42:32

So I was always that person that was like music's my, you know, in the vein of Jimi Hendrix, music's my religion, you know, in the vein of Jimi Hendrix, music's my religion.

Speaker 2: 42:44

But I will say that in this practice of abolition and in this practice of being in community with this team, it's actually I've learned so much and I'm understanding how they intersect.

Speaker 2: 42:54

But I do also want to say right in connecting the spirituality piece, the music piece, the art piece, the abolition piece and and your question about the how art can heal us from trauma-induced conditions, um, space is coming up a lot, and especially hearing no way, also just naming the stardust element. Something I've always talked about with people is how you look at space as a place being a healing form for folks that are trauma impacted, and you see that directly in hip hop, right, that there are so many references to space and how space became escapism and space became a way of healing for folks, and so I think it's really interesting to look at it in that and connecting a lot of abolition and Afrofuturism go hand in hand right, and a lot of what Noé is speaking to and a lot of the spirituality, I think that that is something that kind of really intersects all of those areas, yeah.

Speaker 1: 44:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, music is so powerful. I, way back probably 20 years ago, was in the music industry and so I used to create music. I was an artist and at that time it was hard for me to live in the space of art, of music and spirituality, and I felt a call to ministry. And so where I was in the studio, you know, from sunup to sundown, with artists doing what artists do, with artists doing what artists do, um and uh I, I, it felt like I was at a crossroad and so I left hip making music, um, to go into ordained ministry.

Speaker 1: 44:50

But some of the people who I made made music with are very successful now, um, who have worked on the Renaissance album and worked with Diddy and are music executives. They are very successful, have written for shows like what was the show Queens, I think about the girls' hip hop group. So I love music. I mean, I love it. It lives inside of me and it is a form of therapy for me and very much a part of my spiritual system. And we talk about Ifa and the Orishas Noe, the sound of the drums right. It connects us to our ancestors, it connects us to the divine, it's the movement toward freedom that we heard in the cotton fields with the Patinjuba, and how they use their body to direct people toward freedom. That music is liberation, it is spirituality and it is a portal between us and the divine. So thank you for sharing. How about you, ale?

Speaker 3: 46:02

I didn't grow up very religious in the sense of like spirituality, but I grew up I guess you would call it culturally Catholic and I was baptized and all that stuff. But I didn't grow up going to church or like being having to read the Bible and study it, et cetera. What I did grow up with was a lot of family's from Guatemala and um. In Guatemala and in Central America during the, the civil wars, the Catholic church was a huge ally for um, the working class and and the um, the people who were uh being murdered and and and um spoke out against uh military dictatorships, spoke out against genocide. So my family grew up, I grew up with a lot of folks who practice that type of Catholicism. So people who were liberation theologists, people who were even in the 90s, were always on the front lines of, of resistance groups. So I've always seen religion or spirituality, more importantly, spirituality as a way that you can connect a fight for resistance and a fight for a better and more just world and spirituality going hand in hand.

Speaker 3: 47:19

Now, today, I practice a little bit of everything. I practice a little bit of syncretism. I've been able to tap into ceremony with my indigenous ancestors and often, because of colonialism. It goes a little bit of our practice and a little bit of Catholicism together and for me that's been really powerful and it's been a really grounding source and power in my life that I didn't have before. I think for me it's actually helped me really tether my purpose, really tether myself to not just the earth and the land that I'm on but also tether me to the relationships I have with other people and I think that ultimately helps me build and really nurture my abolitionist practice.

Speaker 1: 48:13

Thank you for sharing that. I'm teaching a course called African Religions and Politics for Abolitionist Futures and we're looking at African diasporic religions. So we look at Yoruba, we look at Candomblé, we look at Lukumi, santaria and Voodoo and the roles of these religious practices towards political resistance. The role of Voodoo in the French Revolution, the role of Candomblé and Tierras as forming communities of resistance that centered women. Candomblé is often viewed as a religious practice where women are more susceptible to divination, and so there's a lot of women leaders. Um so, and when you mentioned syncretism is is a term that Albert Robito uses in slave religion and the ways in which African people are bringing their indigenous religions and they're mapping it idea that we're bringing our religion, our traditions, our culture to practice it in new ways, subversively, in the new world, and so I really appreciate how you're sharing, how you have that continuity within your own indigenous practices. That is a bridge between you and your people. So, ashley, perhaps you can answer this next question but how is Crenshaw Dairy Mart training the next generation of abolitionists?

Speaker 2: 49:51

Yeah, absolutely. We love a good training. So one of the things that we are really proud of and also going back to the idea of art healing us from trauma induced conditions, you know, really deeply believing that artists need to be well resourced and that, you know, a well-resourced artist is an artist that can create the work that they were intended to make. And so one thing that we launched last year is our fellowship called the Crenshaw Dairy Mart Fellowship for Abolition and the Advancement of the Creative Economy, and in that fellowship we have, we have tailored it to be specific to Black Inglewood based artists. No-transcript.

Speaker 1: 50:53

I'm so sorry, I deeply apologize. It's okay, tell us again. Let me go to another question and then maybe, when they're done, we'll come back to the fellowship one. Okay, no-transcript.

Speaker 3: 51:41

I mean I would say all of it, but yeah, I think I think definitely the ending cops at traffic stops, I think is a really um, uh, a big one, um, and I mean I think for me, we often think that we cannot live in a world without prisons or police, uh, that we need police for these types of services, when in reality we don't, and we've only had them around for in the in the history of like human kind and um, they, they haven't been around for the majority of humankind.

Speaker 3: 52:18

So, and I think of paramedics and the paramedic system, right, like we didn't, we paramedics, police used to have that job. Police used to have to have to respond to medical emergencies and then one day somebody decided they envisioned something different, something that actually served their communities, and I think this was in Pittsburgh, and now we can't even imagine a cop going to a medical emergency. That's what we have paramedics for. They think that that's. For me, that's a clear example of how we can be creative, have different systems, have different services and why police don't need to be at traffic stops.

Speaker 1: 53:13

Yes, Agreed, right, that, um one, we don't need policing, right, policing doesn't make us any safer. Um, and we have seen that in Ferguson, here in LA, um, in St Louis. Right, we have with Breonna Taylor and Mike Brown and others, uh, with Kenan Anderson, right, that that policing does not keep us any safer. In fact, black and Brown bodies are dying disproportionately because of the police and the ways in which we are constructed as criminal a priori, like before any data, any experience and so forth. So you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1: 53:54

And what does it look like to reimagine community-led approaches to community safety or to public safety? And that is, ensuring that the police aren't the first responders to a medical crisis or to a health crisis, but that medical professionals are. And there are cities who are moving toward that direction. But we could see that policing doesn't make us safer. So, yes, absolutely, we want to end policing, and certainly at traffic stops. So I want to go back to circle, back to the question. Ashley, perhaps you could share with us or start us off in how we're thinking about the ways in which Crenshaw Dairy Mart is training the next generation of abolitionists.

Speaker 2: 54:41

Yes, thank you so much for bearing with me. So we are so honored and excited that we can offer our fellowship program, which again is the Crenshaw Dairy Mart Fellowship for Abolition and the Advancement of the Creative Economy, and that fellowship is intended specifically for Black Inglewood-based artists. One thing that we haven't mentioned yet but feels incredibly important to mention is that, as we are guests in the city of Inglewood, it feels really important that we are constantly contributing to the economy in Inglewood, and specifically the creative economy. So what that looks like for us is, if we have an event in our space, we're generally hiring an Inglewood-based event planner or using Inglewood-based vendors, right, and so you know, having Inglewood-based landscapers like anytime that we can contribute to the local economy, we do, and this fellowship is just a very important way for us to give back to artists that are from Inglewood. And so this fellowship was really it was kind of birthed out of a MFA program that Patrice started at Prescott College a couple years ago, in which all of our co-founders and studio mates were faculty and then realized that we could be utilizing that same curriculum and approach in our Crenshaw Dairy Mart space and tying it even closer to abolition. And what does it look like, right to train the next iteration of abolitionists and artists?

Speaker 2: 56:13

And what's really important for us is what we are providing to our fellows. So we provide $100,000 unrestricted funds, we provide health insurance, we've provided a chance for them to work with local youth in an apprenticeship format and we really want to have them think about and prototype, like what is the abolitionist imagination? You know, what kind of artwork can we be making in this context? What kind of artwork are we making if all of our needs are met right?

Speaker 2: 56:42

It's really difficult for Black artists specifically to access some of these larger fellowship programs, right? Or to receive different opportunities to make art without having to constantly think about where their next rent payment's going to come from or how to, you know, financially be well-resourced in a way to make art. So you know we want to be able to provide these opportunities and, you know, also bringing in joy too, right. Like what does it look like to make Black art in a space of joy? And you know you haven't been to the Dairy Mart yet yet, but you will and it is an extremely joyous place. Like joy is something that is really important.

Speaker 1: 57:17

I try so hard to get there for the north star, oh well, we'll set up time. So hard to get there for the north star exhibit, yeah well we'll get you there and you'll, and you'll just see.

Speaker 2: 57:28

You know it's a really magical physical space and you know we want to know what kind of art is the result of that. So that's really important to us. And you know the folks that are in this inaugural cohort are all artists that have been really instrumental to the growth of Crenshaw Dairy Mart. Noe mentioned Oto already. Oto Abazi-Attah created the Saint Nip mural that we have dedicated to Nipsey Hussle, which is what most people have seen of the Crenshaw Dairy Mart. Oto was the first artist, inglewood-based artist, to come into the space and bless the space with the co-founders. Juice Wood is a fellow who, juice, was one of the organizers for the Inglewood Community Fridge and really has that amazing kind of mutual aid approach to the artwork that Juice makes and that felt really important to invest in. And Autumn Breon-Williams, who is a local curator, artist, former NASA engineer, going back to space, right. But you know also another Inglewood-based artist that again blessed the space, you know, before we even opened to the public, and so you know this is something that we intend to offer every other year.

Speaker 2: 58:39

I get biannual and biennial confused. So every other year we'll be offering this Englewood-based artist and you know it's a chance for them to connect with our co-founders. You know they have a lot of readings around abolition. They sit in a lot of different curriculum with different art instructors, but we also bring in folks that teach them about taxes as an artist. They'll meet with an art lawyer. You know like we really want to make sure that they are well-rounded as an artist but also able to go out in the world and proudly say like I'm an abolitionist and my art is an abolitionist aesthetic, and this is how this intersects. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 59:28

That sounds amazing. It sounds incredible and I'm impressed that you all are able to find the funding to support these ideas, so that you're not functioning from a scarcity model right but you're able to ideate and thrive and empower others, which is amazing. We're doing something similar at Abolition Sanctuary. We have our STAR fellows, who are summer fellows, who are student-trained ambassador, abolitionist research interns, star S-T-A-A-R research interns, star S-T-A-A-R, and we hosted three interns this past summer in the areas of media, public policy and law. One student was an incoming law student at USC, and our organization focuses on the criminalization of impoverished Black motherhood, and so they do research projects around poor Black mothers from those three different lens, and then they produced a community asset mapping resource book for the city of Los Angeles and Southern California. So we're doing something similar there.

Speaker 1: 1:00:28

And then we also we're creating this technology that I'll share more with you about, and I think it would be great if Crenshaw Dairy Mart was affiliates, and it's a way to. It's a coalition tool where you can do e-commerce. So if artists want to sell their art from this site, if you want it to put together a book, you can publish it on Amazon and get proceeds from it. So it's kind of a coalition building mutual aid technology that invites everyone on to. They can take trainings, they can learn, they can sell, they can connect with other people by affinity. So there could be a group called Art and Abolition where other people, like-minded people, connect, similar to the way Facebook functions. But we're really excited about that and that will launch in June, so we'll tell you more about it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

So, as we are concluding this wonderful interview, wondering if you can tell me you mentioned art as joy. What brings you joy? What are some of the things that you do to find joy amidst the trauma-induced aspects of interlocking systems of oppression in prisons and policing? What brings you joy? And I think that that should be easy because you've said so much already. So if it was one word, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 1:02:05

I can start, yeah. If it's one word it would be the sun.

Speaker 4: 1:02:15

Yeah, I'm with you, ale I'm just thinking nature, nature Ashley community community.

Speaker 1: 1:02:27

Alright, now, this next, this next segment is rapid questions. So you told us about joy, but what comes to mind when I say these words, what thoughts do you have? Ideasas, feelings, images and hope. So we, we had joy. The other is art and resistance. So one word will start with Ashley will go in no way, and then Ali, art and resistance.

Speaker 4: 1:02:49

Cactus.

Speaker 1: 1:02:53

Cactus Graffiti, graffiti, sculptures. Cactus, graffiti, graffiti, sculptures, sculptures. All right, how about abolition april? What comes to mind? Celebration?

Speaker 2: 1:03:10

hugs, hugs hugs community.

Speaker 1: 1:03:18

What comes to mind?

Speaker 3: 1:03:20

fruitfulness hugs, hugs, dancing dancing.

Speaker 1: 1:03:29

And the final word abolitionist futures free. Lots of celebration. Abolitionist futures free. Lots of celebration, lots of celebration yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:03:44

I see stars stars.

Speaker 1: 1:03:50

And this final question please tell us what's next for Crenshaw Dairy Mart and how can we support you all?

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

Yes. So what's next for Crenshaw Dairy Mart? We are we're fully fledged in this fellowship right now. The three fellows will be having exhibitions in August and September of this year, so that'll be a chance for the community to come through and see what they're working on. We should have additional public programming around that same time in August and September. Right now, Noe and Patrice have a show at the Charlie James Gallery in Chinatown called Freedom Portals. We would love for folks to go through and support our co-founders. It is on view until April 15th. This Sunday, April 8th, they will be doing a walkthrough and a talk and, yeah, you can find us on Instagram at Crenshaw Dairy Mart Support looks like telling folks about us, looks like coming to visit. Looks like donating to us so we can keep investing in our communities.

Speaker 1: 1:04:58

Yeah Well, thank you so much. I appreciate each of you Ashley, the executive director, la, the programs and operations specialist, and Noe, one of the co-founders for joining us. We are excited to have Crenshaw Dairy Mart to celebrate Abolition April with us, and especially during this week of Art and Resistance. We wish you all the best and if there's anything that Abolition Sanctuary can do to support you, please count us in. Thank you so much, thank you Dr. Natia.

Speaker 3: 1:05:33

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 1:05:34

Thank you, dr McKeer. Abolition is my religion. Before we conclude this episode, let me affirm what we believe. We believe in a God of the oppressed. We believe that Black women share divinity with God Hagar, harriet, sojourner, carol and countless others who make a way out of no way. We believe in Black women as worthy, a source of salvation and whose moral agency to make a way out of no way demonstrates the cardinal virtues of compassion, care, creativity, courage and community over and against condemnation and criminality.

Speaker 1: 1:06:15

We believe in a brown Palestinian Jew, the black Messiah Jesus, who was profiled, policed and persecuted by the state on trumped-up charges. We believe that Jesus died a criminal but did not wake up one. He transcended criminality on the cross, but no one ever needs to die for us to be saved. We believe in spirit as advocate who draws the least of these femme, women, men, girls, boys and gender non-conforming people together in a beloved community. We believe in a resurrection hope that calls us into right relationship and to restore the human dignity of individuals who are criminalized, caged and cast out. We affirm discipleship as a call to advance a faith-based abolitionist movement, to create spiritual, legal and economic sanctuaries, to transform social structures where the last become first and the captives are set free. We are abolitionist sanctuaries leading a coalition to repair, restore and rebuild a more just and equitable society of communal thriving. Thank you.