Is Israel Doing The Right Thing? with Ami Kozak

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00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview
01:30 Ami Kozak's Musical Journey
03:47 Transition to Comedy and Social Media
05:35 Impact of COVID and Activism
07:22 Balancing Multiple Talents
11:43 Early Success and Commercial Work
14:05 Forming a Band and Sync Licensing
27:10 Pursuing Stand-Up Comedy
35:47 Analyzing Comedy and Personalizing Jokes
37:03 Transition from Music to Comedy
37:25 Impact of October 7th Events
40:26 Discussing the Israel-Palestine Conflict
42:04 Criticism and Defense of Israel
50:26 Polarization and Tribalism in Politics
57:47 University Activism and Intellectual Debate
01:01:14 Engaging Conversations and Changing Minds
01:11:41 Final Thoughts and Career Advice

Transcript

0:29

Hello friends. In this episode, I sit down with Ami Kozak. Ami started off as a musician, then became a comedian, and is currently fighting for Israel through activism. Ami is a fascinating character. This was an incredible conversation. We dove deep into a story, and we got into a juicy and controversial discussion as to if what Israel is doing currently in the Middle East is the right thing to do or not. You know, obviously the views shared on this podcast is our own personal views and doesn't necessarily represent a whole and yeah guys, I highly recommend checking out Ami. His links are in the description He is host of his own podcast called Ami's house. You can find him on instagram as well Finally, guys, this podcast is made possible by the Men's Therapy Studio. Are you feeling lost or overwhelmed as you try to navigate your place in this world? Well, you're not alone. The Men's Therapy Studio is here for clients like you facing the big questions. Of career relationships, heartbreak, and who you want to be. We take your challenges seriously in a world that often doesn't. So hop on a free consultation call. Many entrances are accepted and enjoy. Finally, guys, Patreon is now available for extra content, you know, subscribe to Patreon, hope to see you there. And there are many more episodes of the Gabi Koinov podcast available on other platforms, such as Spotify, Apple podcasts, and anywhere you listen. So enjoy guys. And, uh, send some love, share your feedback. Also subscribe

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 2:00

I mean, you know, what's hilarious about you is like you do so many things. I first. Had been introduced to you from like a Jordan Peterson impression, which was hilarious. And then all of a sudden I'm hearing you do, you know, music and then you do other types of comedy and you do Israel activism and stuff. And I want to dive deep into these things, but I'm just curious to know, like, where did you get your start with this creativity? And like, what, what do you, how do you consider yourself, uh, like a musician, a comedian, all of that?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 2:29

The short answer is I was always a funny kid, but I never considered myself to be professionally funny. My professional route and path for a long time was purely a musical route. I began playing the piano. I was always singing as a kid and I think I, uh, learned how to sing by the ability to impersonate other singers. So there was probably some connective tissue there. But then I began playing bass guitar at the age of 13 and played in high school with, uh, with a band for a long time, started playing live shows from 15, you know, doing community events and then clubs, uh, all ages, nights in the city whenever I could. Kept playing with, uh, with, uh, with friends and then took it professional when I began to study music at the Berklee College of Music. That's where I went for college. Studied film scoring and composing and music production. Uh, after leaving Berklee, I began composing music for ads, some film, TV, uh, background music, uh, and songs to be placed in, Commercials, film and TV and moved out to California, started a band there and we were very, very active in the music scene in LA and still are today. Uh, doing original music. The band's called Distant Cousins and we write and compose original music and we've had a lot of music in commercials, trailers, film, TV, as well as, uh, uh, composing covers. Um, background, underscore, and scoring for, for kids animated TV shows, theme songs. So for a long time, that was my creative identity. I was a musician, and I am a musician. And, I would, you know, perform, in addition to with my band, performing with other people, and doing session work, and all that kind of stuff. On the comedy side, that was like a neglected child, that I never really paid as much attention to professionally, because there wasn't really an outlet for it. I didn't I went to music school. I didn't go to acting school and I didn't go to theater school. I didn't go to join improv groups. I played in bands. Um, and I wasn't, I was doing a little bit of voiceover work at the beginning of my career, but not, there wasn't an outlet for it, you know, you sort of pick different paths and while they're similar, they don't overlap until social media became a tool by which I used it for, you know, putting my, any kind of a creative ideas I had out there. And one of the easiest things to do on social media in the beginning was to put out impressions and impersonations. Which I had always been able to do, socially, uh, but I never, and I performed them in the sense of like, for friends, or on stage for events and things like that, everyone, it was a known feature of me, but, once I started using social media, particularly TikTok, to feature that, I was able to grow an audience organically around my comedy, and that's when, I was sort of comfortable with the label of content creator, comedian, after videos started taking off early ones, like my Gary Vee impersonation started to really blow up. And that was really a turning point. Like when my first videos that went viral was Gary Vee, you know, sitting in his car and I wasn't even going to post it. I wasn't sure if it was that good, but it was just like, I'm just so sick of 20, 40 year olds complaining that they're not killing it, right? Like if you want to win, move to Louisiana and start a peanut butter brand. Okay. Love it so much. Uh so I posted that and it kind of blew up and like after that, it was like you get some sort of public validation like yeah, you're not just like funny to friends and stuff but like this is like a certain it gave a certain validation which is important in the creative business. Um to know that even just to have the confidence to like say like to believe in yourself in a certain way. So I was able to pursue that. It was COVID. around that time and I was ready to like sort of start try start doing stand up and developing that skill set but then COVID happened so I started just doubling down on social media making content impressions comedic sketches which was a really nice cool other lane to open up while continuing to do music and then once things opened back up again about a year after COVID I moved back to the east coast and dove headfirst into the stand up scene and have been developing sort of a synthesis of meet myself as a musician, artist, comedian using all the things that I have at my disposal. And most recently with the October 7th happened and that kind of changed my, uh, outlook on the dangers of like seeing all this antisemitism that had sort of blown up, especially on the far left, but also now the far right. I, that used to be something that people were concerned about, but I was not really particularly concerned about it, but that obviously the way it changed a lot of, um, Jews around the world and looking at the situation. It changed me too. And I began speaking about that. And I'd always been able to, like I said, with comedy, socially talk about ideas and discuss ideas and formulate clear thoughts, but I never used, never used a social media or any sort of public platform to put it out there. That's just, wasn't what I was interested in doing for the masses. I was interested exclusively in entertaining people, but you know. If it comes to making people dance through music, or make people laugh through comedy, now I also make people think through commentary, and that's okay. I don't consider myself a scholar or a public intellectual, I'm just trying to be commonsensical, and that's how we arrive at today.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 7:35

Dude, that's amazing. By the way, is it weird that I'm like fangirling over you right now?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 7:38

No, it's okay.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 7:41

Yeah, that those are so many talents that you've actually had some level of success with, which would be like hard in any individual area.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 7:49

I guess so, I mean, the trick is really just consistency, you know? Um, I think, you know, I've been doing music for 15 years. Um, and then, uh, even social media was several years of obscurity, you know? Um, but with each, you know, as you become, as your profile is raised in one area, it's a little easier to sidestep to another and build off of that. For one thing, you have a little bit of a public presence. I was sort of known in some circles on the music side, but also you become better at all the things you're doing. So you increase your skill stack and all the mistakes you learn at one go in one go around are not a plot are applied to the next thing to have of what to avoid of what works, what doesn't work. So it's, it's not like you don't miss. It's just that you apply the effective tools And the things that you become aware of that are not working to the things that you become aware of that are working. So it exponentially moves things a little bit faster with each thing. You know, like the first business one builds is probably the hardest to figure out. And then once you do that, it becomes slightly, potentially easier to replicate in other endeavors.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 9:01

right, but it's so interesting to me, I guess like, do you find, do you find the skills of building a successful music career helpful in comedy? And it sounds like you're saying you do, because like, there are things that you learned from the process about what to do, what not to do, that were very transferable. And I'm curious to like, understand that more.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 9:21

Uh, yeah, because the same principles apply everywhere. Which is, you have to be come undeniably, exceptionally good at the craft and at the same time become undeniably and exceptionally disciplined at the output and the outreach. Um, so there's very little excuses to be made, given social media, given the ability to make music in your bedroom that could become a hit song or a song used in a big, uh, Commercial campaign like we have all the tools now and if a lot of people are trying to find quick hacks Get a hundred K followers in two weeks or quick hacks to how to make the hit song fat It's like it takes a lot of discipline work to just focus on getting better at the craft while also being creatively conscious of like what's going on out there if you're Trying to make a living doing what you're doing and not just doing it as a hobby if you want to just do it as a hobby like get good enough if you're also trying to Commoditize and monetize what you're doing and sell your art in some particular way. There's a whole other discipline of trying to figure out how that works. Like, there are ways by which certain things happen. And a lot of times I think people just spend most of the time thinking and strategizing and watching. Um, but that's not the thing, you know? You can watch a thousand videos on fitness and diet and I'm, this is like another, you know, I'm guilty of that. But it's not going to put you in shape. What's going to put you in shape is going to the gym every single day, five to seven days a week, and actually doing it. Like, there are simple answers that are just very hard to do. So it applies across everything.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 10:53

yeah. yeah. that's so fascinating, and I love that. And it's like, I want to kind of understand your music journey at first. Like you said, you've been doing it for 15 years. Like, did your parents get you into it? Like, how did that look like for you, that start

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 11:05

I was always very encouraged by my parents to keep pursuing it. I took private lessons as a teenager, like studying Music and learning music theory, learning how to play an instrument, learning how to, and, and performing, and they were very, very good about, uh, also comedy. They were encouraging of me. They were my first audience was probably my parents and their friends just doing impressions of them. So psychologically, that was very, very important. That was super crucial in me feeling confident enough that I could, you know, uh, that I was meant to do it in a sense. Um, And that's an asset. It also can be a liability'cause then you feel like it's owed to you, like you're, and then you've come up against the world and you realize like it actually takes much more hard work and discipline and grit than talent, even though the talent's necessary, it's not sufficient, you know, to just necessarily get success. And, uh,

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 11:58

So what was that process like for you? Uh, I'm curious, like, um, were, were you successful in the beginning? Was that a process? Was there like a turning point for you where it was like, you were kind of doing this for fun and didn't maybe see where it was going to go. And then all of a sudden, like things got

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 12:13

probably the turning point was, you know, when I got the first commercial. For a song I wrote to use it in the commercial the first like job I quote one

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 12:23

Mm

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 12:23

of school like, you know, everybody in the When you're a student and you're in that mentality, you're like, okay, I'm gonna try to do this I'm gonna try to quote make it in the music business, but I don't know if I'm One of those who's cut out like which side of this equation am I gonna be on? The guy who's trying to like, you know, how do I, you know, people say, we don't have to care what people think. You don't have to care what the world thinks. Just do what you do. And, and, and that's in some ways true focusing on getting better, but at the same time, also there are markers along the way that can indicate if you're doing something. That's leaning more towards success or away from it So to be completely blinded to what's going on around you I don't think it's helpful, but like I had been like interning at a studio for almost a year I don't know how long yeah close to a year just trying to get a piece of music on the TV like in some sort of commercial

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 13:13

hmm.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 13:14

and like until that first one happens you really are like having a hard time Just wondering if you're cut out for it. Like, you just don't, you just don't know. Cause everyone can say, yeah, no, it's great. It's great. But you just don't know. And once somebody is willing to pay and really validate what you're doing with not just words, but actual, like that's the ultimate confirmation. Like it's valuable enough that we're going to buy this license, this piece of music for a massive campaign. I ended up winning like one of the biggest jobs at the company I was interning for, and that was a changing moment where I was like, okay, I'm not just like an intern trying to compose music, uh, for TV, for commercials. I am a composer. You know.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 13:53

Wow. That's incredible, man. And this was like, what type of song was this for the commercial?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 13:57

like a fun, light, acoustic kind of Jason Mraz y song for San Diego tourism. Um. called Happiness is Calling Me, which is kind of a light, fun song that was ended up used in their uh, National Ant Campaign. It was a San Diego tourism

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 14:10

That's awesome.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 14:11

Uh, and you can look it up on YouTube, but yeah, it's uh, and ended up running for like two or three years, getting renewed, and then after that, you know, I got a few more things and started to get more consistent work demoing and composing for commercials.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 14:27

So is that where like the music kind of plateaued? Like you were just doing commercials. Did you find a way to like evolve past

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 14:34

No, yeah. And then I, in addition to just composing on my own, I, once I moved to California, I partnered with my two eventual bandmates. And we also had this idea, like, all these commercials are using songs from bands in their commercials. Like, let's write a few songs of our own and see what can happen with them. So we had a hunch that we could do well with it and make songs that would work. And that would be good and that would also work in the world of sync licensing. for listening. So the first one we got was a validation point where we were like, okay, we were, we were right on this investment to say, like, we had a sense and that sense was validated by the world. That was, was validated by this space. So we started writing a lot of songs and partnering with companies to get our songs in Macy's commercials and feature films. And, and then we were like, Hey, we could probably, maybe we could write a theme song, you know, for a, for a kid's animated show. And you could say that all day, but if you've never done it, how do you really know until you know, until you do it? So then we did it, we got songs, and we ended up writing a bunch of theme songs for kids television shows. And then we're like, I think we could actually score and compose all the music for the entire season. And eventually, and eventually, and eventually that happened. I mean, I'm skipping years in between, but, and work in between, but we worked towards those things. And it's a constant evolution of, uh, of that. So, you know. and we enjoy it all. You have to enjoy the process along the way too. We are, we we're not, these goals aren't say the the sole reason driving us to do it. It's more that we want to do it. So we, we want to accomplish these things so you can keep doing it. A lot of people focus on the goals and not the process, but the process of making the music is what we want to do, and so we want these things to happen so that we can continue to be creative, write songs, compose music, the same in any other endeavor. You know,

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 16:24

so it was like a real love for the art and the process. That's so cool.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 16:29

you don't, you're gonna spend most of your time miserable. And then when the goals happen, they will be underwhelming.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 16:36

You know, what's interesting is, is like, I'm a therapist, right? My first job out of college was as a school counselor. I love that job. Literally, I almost never felt like I was working because it was the best job ever. You know, I was just going there and I was, I was helping people out and it was great. And, you know, I talked to other school counselors that did not like their job. And I was like, how do you, how do you not like this job? I don't get it. You know, and it's, it's so sad to me when you have people that, um, you know, especially like as a counselor and I'm working with people that don't like their jobs, it's shocking to me. It's like, you're, you're working just to, to live. And it's, it's sad. Like, you know what I mean?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 17:12

Yeah, uh, I, I mean, some people have that, are able to be okay with sort of looking at work as that means to an end to enjoy other things. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I find that personally to me, it would be very difficult. People have different thresholds for that. Some people find real fulfillment in the work itself. Some people find that the work is stable and works temperamentally with them and allows them to do things they're passionate about or go places they want to go. I, I, I don't, I don't really judge in that regard. Um, but, but for me personally, like it would certainly be hard to look at work as a means to an end as opposed to the end in and of itself. It's just how I'm a little bit wired that way. Boom. Um,

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 17:54

Yeah, that's fair. Like, to me, I think it's about, like, the, the line, I guess, um, you know, how much are they sacrificing, how much do they hate their job, you know, how accurate is it that they're, you know, being able to go where they want to go,

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 18:07

but also if you're a, if you're a counselor, I don't know how much a school counselor is. It's not my business how much they make, but if you're going to hate what you do, then hate something that pays, I guess, know,

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 18:17

yeah, yeah, yeah, that's

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 18:18

why not just hate it and, and

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 18:19

honestly, school counselors get paid.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 18:21

they get paid well. Okay, good. you would know better than me. So maybe, maybe it was worth it. Uh, clearly it was you know, at least for some

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 18:27

Um, yeah, but you know Conor McGregor, right? So he has this story where when he started out, uh, I don't know exactly how old he was, he was like maybe 19. Um, you know, he was a plumber. And he like, He was just miserable and he was like, I don't understand how people could live like this.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 18:44

I don't understand how people could live like this. I only count knockouts. I don't do a good count but people do better than me It's a very I only count knockout. It's a very very specific what Irish. It's a very specific Irish region It's not your typical Irish accent. It's much more. It's much more like, you know, I don't even know how they do it I don't even count knockout. It's so it his is You know, it's anyway. Yeah

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 19:07

That's so awesome that we could just like, be talking about someone and you could just like, break out

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 19:11

Yeah, but I, I can't stand on that Connor one. The Connor one is, I mean, I could do a little bit of the Irish melon or the Irish sort of inflection point, but it's not quite, you know, I don't know how people do it. I only count knockouts, count, no, count. That's a little more Scottish, but his is so specific. So, like, Brits can do it well. I can't really do it perfectly.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 19:27

Right. Right. Right. But tell me about how you had that instinct to like, follow your passion instead of like, selling out, which I feel like. There are so many talented people that, that don't pursue what they're passionate about. Yeah, because of fear and because like, it's unstable and then, you know, they want to go down a more stable route. But it's like, how did you have that, that instinct to like, Hey, let me follow my passion because music is not necessarily the most stable career. So it's like, how

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 19:52

Well, what do you mean by selling out?

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 19:54

I think there are people that have a passion and an inclination to go into a certain direction, like say they are very musically talented and they would pursue music and instead of going to music school, because, um, you know, like you did, you went to Berkeley, they'll become an accountant or something like that, and then continue their music as a side passion or something like that. Um, you know, and I think a lot of people have regret for that. Many years later, they look back and they, they feel like they're perhaps a sellout. I'm not saying everyone does, but there are people that,

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 20:21

Well, I was given, I mean, emotional, psychological, um, uh, support from coming from a family and parents who were so encouraging that like you, that you should do this, be conscious of everything and be realistic, but also like you have what it takes, you know, to make it or like, you're good enough. You're talented enough that if you put, if you work really hard into it, you'll, you'll, uh, You'll, you'll be successful. And I'm, you know, raised in that, uh, upper middle class, like Jewish environment, sometimes there's a lot of discouragement from going into those kinds of careers. But in my case, I guess I was just lucky that my parents, you know, helped and provided me with, uh, you know, bought me an instrument when I was, uh, 13 years old and paid for private lessons in school so that I could learn and get better and nurture the craft. So I don't credit myself with just that instinct of, uh, that, I mean, I, I find it, it's, it's unfortunate for people who feel unfulfilled and wish they had, could have pursued more artistic things. And I've talked about that, like that, especially in the world now where you can really build an audience and do it, but you It's hard. Like it's a hard thing. It's it's, it, it doesn't come easy. It's not for the faint of heart. And like, I completely respect at this point, this idea of like trying to balance career stability, family, and unstable past careers that are, that, that are a much more long game investment of time. Um, but having, having that early on, having, having, uh, you know, um, people who are willing to support me while I interned for free, you know, you know, after college for a few, for, for those months, like in the early days, it's like, uh, you know, so I, I credit that and having that support. So if people, and if that wasn't there, like I would have had, I think I possibly, you know, I'd like to say I would have done anything and, uh, I had to do to, to, to, because I was so passionate about it. But again, you know, I also credit having a good support system around me.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 22:18

Wow. So that's really, that's really beautiful. I was hoping to come out with some type of, like, applicable, um, You know, some type of transferable, uh, kind of concept or, or nugget for like inspiration for that. Somebody could take from it, but it's like, you know, I'm hearing your story and it's like having that support system and everything is so powerful. And I guess it's like, how can we maybe offer that type of support system for, for family and friends? But it's tough because like, you're saying you were financially held down.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 22:48

Well, no, in the world we're in today, I think, like, you know, you could be a lawyer and struggle. And you could be in all sorts of areas that are seemingly stable, but also struggle in different ways. Um, so I remember after I graduated college, it was the economic collapse. It was 2008, 2009, and no one had a job. And some people just went to law school to sort of wait it out. And things were completely unstable. So all this like expectation of like a solid economy that everyone's going to go into. And I majored in the right things just got thrown for a loop. And at the end of the day, if you work really, really hard, focus, stay consistent, focus on getting undeniably good at what you're doing. Um, You can find success in various ways, uh, especially in the world we're in today. It was very understandable if you're growing up in the 90s to be told like, hey, that entertainment business, that music business is tricky. You know, only a few people make it, only a few people. And maybe that was more largely true then when there were so many gatekeepers in the business that decided who gets to be successful and who gets to not. Um, but these days it's, you know, you could be a gamer on Twitch and make a decent amount of money at an early age if you build up enough of a following. Um, Like that, those opportunities didn't exist, uh, when I was growing up. So, you know, there's all these different ways to be entrepreneurial, to apply an entrepreneurial spirit to any endeavor, artistic, uh, business, startup, whatever. And Jews care about success. They don't care about what you're doing. Like, you know, people brag and shul about, Oh, what does he do? I think it's a boxes. They make boxes for, uh, for, uh, for, for hard drives. And he did very well with it. Thank God he's doing very well. Like no one, you know, at the end of the day, the careers that. The community defaults to happen to be the ones that are maybe seemingly more stable. But in the end, like, with enough, um, you know, focus and I think determination, eventually you can find success in various fields. You know? And That's different for different people, too.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 24:41

Yeah, that's true. And I love that for you as well, like that, um, you know, that you were able to pursue this and, and have family support. And then like this concept also of like, now there's so many opportunities abound. I'm just curious. So tell me about going to LA. Do you, do you feel like that was a good, decision to do

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 24:59

Of course, yeah. That's where I met my bandmates and we became, uh, Uh, we had a lot of success writing for NBA, became a validated artist. I sort of came into my own as a professional musician in LA. Um, in, when you're in like, you know, coming out of school, you just don't know where you stand competitively. Um, I did, I, I, I did okay at school in terms of grades, but socially I was kind of isolated. I was the only like one of two maybe Orthodox Jews in the entire place. And I basically had a social life outside of school. music school, you know, more at the Boston University side of things, which was great, but professionally, I just felt completely stagnant. So coming into LA realizing, Oh no, I do have what to offer. That was a, that was great. And I was, and LA is an easier place, I think to network and meet people. And especially in the early days, just because of the culture, it's a lot more accessible than New York.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 25:52

Interesting. Okay. That's really cool. Um, so at what point do you decide you're coming back to New York and you're pursuing comedy?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 25:58

Um, Well, post COVID, LA took a massive beating. There was a great exodus of people. We didn't have any, uh, extended family there, so between the grandparents for the kids and in laws and stuff, there was always this idea that eventually we'd come back to the East Coast. Um, and then having, being able to build, uh, an audience online, I was like, okay, this is interesting that it's not dependent on where you are, you could take it anywhere, so that gives you a certain sense of security. You know? that you can continue creating from anywhere. Um, and it was just sort of that rent. It's course moment where it was a great time. And, but at the end of the day, I got the sense that I'm sitting there in LA on zoom with everybody still at well after COVID is not dangerous. And while after COVID seems to be over, everyone is zooming now in this new normal on a lot of things. So I was like, why am I in LA? Isolated from family members and why are kids growing up without their grandparents around if I'm on zoom in a room? Like you know and it's hard like I still miss my community there my friends and people and But LA LA is a little bit. LA is rough. It's not it's it's grimy. It's very expensive It's kind of it doesn't look like Aventura. It looks like Queens with palm trees. It's not, it's, you know, it's a pretty beaten up place. Homelessness, expense, crime, um, expend, you know, all the practical reasons, you know. So No, no, no. I was in, uh, Pico Robertson, like the Jewish hood, And it was great. And I still love going back and stuff, but at a certain point, yeah, we made a practical decision.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 27:37

and then you start stand up in New

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 27:39

I was doing a little bit of stand up in LA too, but I really hit the ground running once I got back to New York and I kind of began, uh, I'd say training and then eventually performing, you know, hitting up the open mic scene in New York to work out material and then doing shows and sets on people's, uh, shows they were putting together and then private events and corporate events and then hit the sort of Jewish community scene of doing stuff all in conjunction with what I was doing online too. So, yeah. That was difficult. That was a very hard thing to, to go back to the bottom a little bit of, uh, of a process and build back up knowing how far there is to go, but it's what's necessary or what was for me.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 28:17

So talk to me about, yeah, talk to me about that. And I'm curious to hear like, uh, one of your, I guess, like, um, what the themes of your, your standup were

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 28:27

Well, I mean, I can do impressions, but impressions are not standup. I mean, standup is its own format, its own craft. Um, and having no idea what standup really was, Like, what do you do? You get up, it looks like the illusion is the magic trick of somebody getting up there and just talking on a mic, but you actually have to write jokes. The way you have to write songs, you have to write bits. You have to not only think of something funny, but turn it into a deliverable bit, just like a song is about something. Ooh, I'd love that song. I have this idea for a song, but it's not a song until it has a beginning, middle end arc, a buildup climactic element and an end. Jokes work very, uh, the same way. So a lot of people, a lot of people watch comedians and they're like, Oh, they're just kind of riffing up there and talking. That's not true. Sometimes they are just like a band sometimes improvises or jams off a tune, but there's a structure of what's going on, you know, and some comedians are more like classical music where every note is completely worked out and they don't go off script. And some comedians are more like jam bands or jazz musicians where they have a song and a structure, but they also get very playful and loose. And I'm into all of it. Um, so you have to discover what your style is as a comedian by doing it, but first you have to train and work out the craft. I think a lot of people want to skip all that and just get up there and vibe, and they find out very, very quickly that that's not how it works. And it's, uh, and the hardest thing about stand up versus anything else is that you have to rehearse in front of people. You have to practice getting good in front of an audience, as opposed to at home, practicing. Uh, a guitar or a song that no one has to hear until it's ready. You have to workshop your material in front of people. And risk, take, and risk defeat. Risk rejection. And, uh, you know,

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 30:14

Wow. Yeah.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 30:16

Yeah.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 30:17

So how did you have the guts? Was it from, you know, your experience with music or did you just like take a shot? Like, how did it look like in

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 30:22

I had a little bit of an advantage in that the stage, the mic, the audience is not like a foreign entity to me coming from the music world. So I had a, A bit of a comfortable sense of timing in that, but exposure therapy, you go and get uncomfortable bombing at, at these little, at the, you know, small performances and mics and open mics where you're working stuff out, you know, sitting there for three hours while one person bombs after another. And, and you're like, Oh, and you feel bad for them. It's not comfortable the whole time. And then you get pulled out of the hat and you're still your time to go to try stuff out. And it's terrible. And then you just get comfortable with that so that by the time you get in front of a real audience that's primed to laugh, they surprisingly You're sort of primed and ready for it, um, and if it doesn't work, you, if it doesn't work, then you can move past it. You can handle it and say, okay, the joke, the joke didn't work. It doesn't say anything about me as a person. I'm, I consider myself funny, but the joke needs work and you're able to separate the craft from the person, even if the audience doesn't. Um, and then the exposure therapy of doing it over and over and over again, makes you more comfortable, just like anything in life.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 31:32

I love that. I love that so much. But I mean, how do you even start a, like, how do you come up with an idea for this? Like, as you say, like, you need a beginning, you need a climax, you know, you need to come up with a journey of a story. Like, how do you figure that out? Like, do you have an idea of like, Hey, this story happens to me. This is hilarious. I want to see if I could turn that into a skit and then you throw in a Donald

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 31:52

Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. that's like,

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 31:56

Right.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 31:56

I mean, it's like how any thought about anything is generated. You know, you think of something and if it's interesting, you go from there, or if it's funny, you go from there. And so having a comedic angle is, is sort of there to begin with, and then sharpening it of like understanding timing and jokes. And if you have a funny premise, uh, you know, there's like the premise, like, Oh, yeah. If it's as simple as like, I don't know, putting somebody in a scenario that they're usually not in so that it's a, you know, part of the joke is that there's a surprise to it. No one expects that because they haven't heard what that would be like. So everyone's heard Donald Trump and I could just do Donald Trump and I could talk like this, but eventually it's going to run out of steam folks. We could talk like that though. You know that, right? And it won't have an effect. But if I say, uh, Donald Trump, the therapist. All of a sudden it has a little bit more comedic weight. And you could, you know, like, um, Very sad, so sad what happened when you Oh, so sad. Such a sad human being. So much trauma. Ooh, so much trauma what happened. You know, I was a great dad. I was a fantastic dad, you know. I would date my daughter. She's beautiful, Ivanka. I would date her and then she would need therapy. So like, Trump as a therapist is a funnier one. And then you could go further like on that, down that road or that's enough from the impressions angle. If you're just writing a joke about anything, you think of something funny and then you, you try to find ways to, uh, to explain, you know, there's like in, in, in joke writing, you have setups and punch lines. You have a premise, which is you're establishing something, but you sometimes set up and build up to. To, uh, what that, establishing a premise, making a setup and a punchline coming, you know, which is basically sort of a misdirection. Like the audience doesn't see that coming and they laugh, you know, this kind of sterilizes what comedy is, but sometimes it's observational where you're pointing out something that's so true, but nobody, it's sort of unrealized. And when you bring it forward, people laugh because it's like, oh my, you know, there's this relatability to it, but yeah.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 34:04

interesting. I'm, I'm curious. Is there a place where somebody could go to learn comedy?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 34:09

Yeah, unfortunately, comedy is one of those art forms where it's just, there's not as much traditional schooling or formula that has been developed. Unlike music, there's music school, conservatory, books, culinary school for chefs, graphic arts, arts design schools for artists. But the technical, the technicals of comedy are, there's a lacking space for it. That doesn't mean that. You sort of have to learn on the streets you have to go to the clubs you have to start You know and and comedians love to geek out about oh here after a set someone will say hey You know you should do for that punchline tweak it put this word over here And it would actually land much better the reason they didn't laugh at the sign It's not cuz I'm funny, but you have to first say this So set up what you're saying or change the perspective of this person in your joke make it from the wife's perspective That's funnier, and then they go. Oh, that's fun that you're right That's what I was missing. And so there is, uh, there is a geekiness and technical elements to joke writing, but there isn't as much, uh, traditional schooling, uh, about it, um, that has developed. And I think it's because comedy is so like ingrained socially in people that like in the way that, you know, music, there's a barrier to entry, like every, you have to pick up the instrument and put in your time and, and art and things like that, but, um, But with comedy, like everybody kind of thinks they're funny and everyone thinks they could kind of be professionally funny or not. I don't know, but it's so attached to one's own identity and personality and persona that the artistic version of it, the professional version of comedy for some reason lacks a, lacks an educational infrastructure. There are books, there are ideas, there are things that people put out and, you know, just doing it over and over and getting better at it is, is the way people do it. Um,

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 35:56

that's what it is.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 35:57

Because comedy is audience dependent, like stand up comedy. I think there's, you know, there's screenwriting and helping to, you know, you can improve upon it. There are workshops at comedy clubs, there's things like that. But, but the only way to know if something is really Like a teacher at the front of a classroom isn't gonna say, A proper joke, yes? And this is how and now you have a No, and like the way they're going to analyze a piece of music or a piece of art, your shadowing is off, the lighting, the way you the way you're doing your lighting is off, and we're going to use pencil technique here. With jokes it's like, do people laugh or not? You know?

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 36:31

mm-Hmm. Yeah.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 36:33

so no elitist professor is going to determine the funny of something, the audience will. You

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 36:38

Right. You know what's interesting also is I was watching Russell Peters in a podcast recently, and you know, he said that what makes a great comedian, um, like a truly great comedian, is that they tell jokes that only they can tell. Like otherwise, you're kind of like replaceable if you're saying these generic jokes. And I'm curious, like, have you found a way to personalize your comedy and, and like come from an angle where it's like, this is. These are jokes that only Omni can

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 37:02

I think That's a constant discovering process. Um, which he's right in the, I mean, that, that is a, that is true. That's like sort of the ideal eventually finding your own voice, but it takes time to do that. And you, you discover it in time. I mean, a lot in the early stages of doing comedy, you're just trying to not bomb, trying to entertain the audience and your voice will come as you use it.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 37:31

Do you feel that you're successful? Like this is now something like you do, you do stand up, you're getting booked for gigs or whatever.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 37:37

Um, I feel like it's working. Yeah, I feel like what I'm putting out there is getting a response for sure.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 37:44

That's so cool. And it's like, it's so incredible to me again, like how you were able to come from music and get, you know, relative success in that, and then do comedy and get relative success in this too. And then it's like, you transferred, uh, to, It seems like there was like a switch post October 7th, and if you feel comfortable talking about it, I'd like to talk about that with you. It's like, um, you know, at first I was seeing you doing like these hilarious Jordan Peterson impressions, and then after that I'm seeing some activism going on on social media. So it's like, uh, you want to talk me through that process? Like, what shifted for you?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 38:14

What shifted was probably the most horrific massacre of Jews in Israel since the Holocaust, and the subsequent, uh, support for it, sympathy for it, coverage for it, apologies for it, denial of it. Um, to me, That was definitely, uh, the, the turning point for me in terms of feeling like we were back in the late thirties, wondering how a Holocaust could have happened and now not wondering anymore. Uh, so as a grandchild of Holocaust survivors to always have that question of how did it even happen? How did the world let that happen? How did people, uh, not see the evil for what it is to see that happen in real time? Currently in 2024 is pretty traumatic, um, and startling. And I didn't go to my platform to be political. To me, it was not a political issue. This was a basic humanity versus cruelty civilization versus barbarism and savagery issue. And comedy doesn't have a lot of time, um, to be, to exist in a world that doesn't respect basic humanity and dignity. Of me as a Jew or my community and my people seeing what was going on. And so I still make jokes and have fun on social media, but I saw it as a, I just, I had to speak, had to speak about it. There was not much else to, it was a personally subjective, close to home issue for me. So I wasn't going on my socials before to talk politics or policy. And that was okay. In this case, like it hit a nerve and I felt like I had to speak out for some common sense, moral clarity on an issue. And I saw that a lot of people responded positively to me being able to articulate those positions of what people were feeling. And just like with comedy, you're saying things that people feel and it makes them laugh saying things that people feel and providing that catharsis when it comes to moral issues, it has, uh, had a similar effect and of, of being able to, um, that was validating that if I could do that, I'm going to continue to do that. I wish I didn't have to do that. Yeah. It was sort of a, if a video of mine about Israel, about antisemitism got a lot of views or whatever, there's something sad about that. You know, that so many people need to hear that. I wish they didn't have to hear it. I wish it wasn't considered brave to be against antisemitism or pro Israel, but unfortunately the state of affairs, it is. And so, uh, that's what drove me to keep speaking out about it.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 40:51

I mean, so what I'm curious about is like, huh, it is crazy to me also how much antisemitism is, uh, tied into, you know, the, the kind of pro Palestine anti Israel movement. Um, you know, it's very evident that, that it's there for sure. Um, and we could definitely discuss it, but it's like when the attacks first happened and, you know, um, I guess prematurely, uh, I was doing a podcast with my friends. That we had planned to do on October 9th. So it was like, anyways, we were going to have a podcast. So we had to discuss it because, you know, the October 7th events just happened. And it was like, you know, in the beginning there was definitely a very strong pro Israel. Um, this is, you know, Israel has the right to defend itself. This is such an atrocious attacks. And it seems like everyone aside for like fringe view, we're probably like, you know, pro Palestine or whatever it was, it was very clear that that was not the direction to go. Um, and, you know, even I'd commented that like. How many Palestinians now are going to die? Um, you know, innocent people that are, that are going to lose their homes, that are, you know, not going to have electricity, that are going to suffer, you know, severely because of what Hamas had done. And obviously it's like, to me, um, I don't know how I feel about it. I'm not like an expert in, uh, in war and politics, but like, there's a certain angle of like, Hey, war is war. People are going to die. There are going to be casualties, but it's like, it's like, to what degree? And it's like, what, what is a good response? What is a proper response? And to me, like the idea of like. Killing, um, people close to indiscriminately. I'm not saying Israel's doing that, but like, that seems like the wrong way to go. You know what I mean? And I'm curious, like, do you feel like there is fair criticism to give to towards the Israel government? Um, or do you feel like giving any sort of criticism at all? We'll feed anti Semitism. Like, how do you feel on that?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 42:46

Hamas. Wants to kill all the Jews as stated explicitly. 20, almost 20 years ago, Israel pulled every single Jew out of Gaza, 8, 000 people out of their homes. And Hamas came a year or two later, they killed and murdered all their political opponents and had a state lit there as an experimental thing to see what happens when you give land back. And whether you think it's justified or not, they had a, uh, Society that they could have turned into a peaceful, loving neighbor with Israel. And they didn't do that. That's not Israel's fault. They didn't do that. They were hell bent on raising another generation of, uh, children to hate Jews, deeply embedded within the culture, continually attacking Israel, 7th, but rocket fire before that kidnapping, stabbings, terrorism. Um, at the end of the day, If they wanted peace, they could have it in a second. They don't want it. The idea is not to create a free Palestinian state with equal rights for its citizens, with a prosperous, free, liberal society. The idea is to destroy Israel. The problem isn't the lack of existence of a Palestinian state. It's the existence of a Jewish state. That's the issue. That's the fundamental issue. Um, and the criticism that I would level at Israel is that They prolong these campaigns, they drag them out because they're willing to put their own civilians and soldiers at risk for the sake of appeasing the world and operating from a morality where the standard is to minimize civilian casualties on both sides, even if it means not winning and even if it means putting their soldiers and civilians at risk. The job of any government fundamentally is to protect the rights, um, and liberties and life. Of their own civilian population. And when a regime attacks your civilian population continually with the explicit aim of doing it until the civilian population of yours that you're representing is wiped out for the sake of being Jewish, for the sake of being Israeli, it is your responsibility as in government, first and foremost, to eliminate that threat so that the war ends. If you want peace, you eliminate those entities that stand in the way of it proudly, which is Hamas and civilian casualties, innocent people who die as a result of the. Genocidal intentions of their own elected governments. That's the fault and accountability of their elected regimes that commit these acts of aggression against sovereign free people. So if you do that, you incur the wrath of the justified response. Does it make mistakes? Sure. But if the end at the end of the day, no, but none of those civilians that you mentioned were all of them were alive on October 4th, 5th and 6th, Israeli and Palestinian. So when you do that. You can then not point your finger at the nation defending itself for the civilian death toll and the collateral damage. The standard of victory must be to defeat Hamas entirely. It's like if a patient has cancer, you're blaming the chemotherapy because it causes damage, which it does do to cancer cells and healthy cells alike. But you have to eliminate the cancer. And I'm saying that Hamas is the cancer with genocidal tensions to destroy the patient, which is Israel and Israel has to eliminate it. Is it painful to go through that treatment? Absolutely. And nobody wishes death upon innocent civilians, but Hamas could have built entire defense systems if they wanted to. They didn't. Israel has defense systems to protect its civilians, and Hamas has civilians to protect its defense. They go under the ground, and they invest all of their resources, not in building schools, infrastructure, roads, a prosperous society. They invest on building a terrorist state. And so they're responsible, ultimately. And if they wanted to end it And stopped the civilian death toll on their side, they could have surrendered and returned all the hostages, but they haven't done that And it's only when israel is relentless in pursuing them that we can get hostages back Um not capitulating to evil and to terrorism and to tell them that hey terrorism actually works You're going to be granted a state now by these countries in the west by norway and spain and ireland It works. You can get your terrorists back from our jail set from our prison cells if you keep kidnapping and terrorizing israelis When you do that, you enable further evil. So the way to fight it and the way to minimize evil is to defeat it. And if you want peace, you eliminate those who stand in the way of it.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 47:11

That's, that's really clear. And what I'm hearing you say, and you could tell me if I'm wrong, but like, you know, Hamas is a horrible evil and there is no negotiating with Hamas. They meaning they're in their blood and their charter, whatever it is, like, they're trying to eliminate the Jewish people and they're trying to eliminate Israel. So it's like, you cannot, you know, ease up on them, whatever. Yeah, Israel needs to do whatever it can to defeat Hamas despite all the civilian casualties it'll cause and you're commenting that it's not even Israel's fault. It's not Israel's, it's not Israel that's committing the civilian casualties because Hamas could surrender and, and, um, you know, give back the hostages and therefore it, it seems like it would even be Hamas's fault. So it is kind of ridiculous that Israel gets, uh, Uh, so much blame for it. And while, while I hear those points and I agree with it, it's still to me is like, is Israel, and this is the interesting thing. I don't know. I'm not like, I'm not there. And maybe it's not even my place to comment on what's going on. You know, I do talk to my friends that are in Israel and I try to understand the facts on the ground, you know, and, and people forget that. There are still terrorist attacks in Israel going on today. Um, you know, by, by people coming in and committing stabbings and, and cart, like, you know, ramming their trucks into stuff and whatever, you know, that is still going on today. Um, but I'm just curious. It's like, it's like, what is the best way to, to defeat Hamas? You know, obviously like that needs to be relentless, you know, but

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 48:35

I don't know. I'm not a, military tactician and neither are you. And neither is anyone in the Western journalist class commenting on this. They have no idea how to do it. I would, I would defer to military experts, leaders who are actually sending troops into harm's way to, to, to fight them. I have no idea, but if we agree they have to be defeated and they're accountable for what has happened, then that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, Then that's the end of the discussion, uh, as far as I'm concerned, because it's beyond my purview to comment on how the IDF should, uh, should do it militarily. Gratuitous violence, I'm not in favor of. I'm not in favor of, uh, of intentionally targeting civilians. I'm in favor of intentionally targeting Hamas. And if they decide to hide among civilians, they are putting the civilian population that they are responsible for protecting in harm's way. Unfortunately, they do not value the life of their civilians. They don't value life at all. They're very clear on that. That's not, that's not me being, uh, um, uh, hyperbolic. That's, that's what they say. Philosophically, ideologically. This is an ideological battle. It's a religious battle. They, they don't believe the yahud should exist on this land. So. Don't be fooled. Like, that's what we're fighting here. And unfortunately, Israel has a very high threshold intolerance for its own casualties and its own suffering. And I think that's immoral. That's the criticism I would say.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 50:01

That They're not caring about

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 50:02

They're willing, they're willing to sacrifice. They are totally willing to sacrifice the citizens of Steyrote and their sense of safety. They're willing to sacrifice and put at risk IDF soldiers who have to wait because the rules of engagement are so intense and strict. And they use that as a point to the West to say, see, see, see how careful we are. But they also, now people don't realize you have a 20, 21, 22 year old soldier sitting in a booby trap building who four days later finds out gets blown up by Hamas terrorists because they couldn't engage with them when they had the opportunity. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that happens all the time. And you know, the pro Palestinian side is able to use dehumanizing language to say, to just call them soldiers and combatants and all these kinds of things. And I'm just saying they can do that, but Israel does make those concessions, unfortunately, and I think that's a big mistake because these wars drag out, more people suffer over the long run.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 50:53

Yeah. Obviously you have this incredible clarity. Where do you think the confusion is on many of these journalists and people in the West? Because it's like, you're right. Hamas is a threat that needs to be eliminated, you know, in by any means. And it's like when America got into war with ISIS and when America was supporting Saudi Arabia to, to attack Yemen and all sorts of stuff, like we were not any better in America, you know? And it's like, You know, even on a small scale, killing bin Laden, I think they also killed bin Laden's wife. That was like being used as a shield. It's like America doesn't take the kinds of precautions that, that, um, you know, they're asking of Israel that people in America are asking of Israel. So it's like, to me, that's, that's also where I feel like there's obvious antisemitism here. It's like, what's with the, what's with the standard, like the double standard, like, where were your protests when America was backing Saudi Arabia and they were bombing the hell out of Yemen, you know? Afghanistan and, and like the, the types of mistakes that we made in the Middle East. You know what I mean?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 51:50

Yeah, that's what Douglas Murray says, like, the reason Israel goes crazy and goes bananas is because they hate the Jews. It's very likely and clear that it's because they hate the Jews. Um, The reason that double standard, what animates that I think is anti Semitism. What, what animates general hatred of Israel as a Western ally as a, is a couple of things. I think it's one is this nonjudgmentalism that you find on the far left that no one culture or society can be deemed better than another. It's completely morally subjectivist and relative and it's moral relativism. relativism. to say, And, uh, otherwise it's bigotry to say a free, open society is better than an oppressive, tyrannical, um, uh, police state that is Hamas, that enforces theocracy. We can't say one is better than the other. No, no, no, no, no. And morality is usually judged by those who have versus those who are perceived to have not. And those who have that are prosperous and powerful are necessarily villainous and evil. And those who do not have, who are perceived to be oppressed, are evil. are perceived to be virtuous. They cannot commit. What they do is not barbarism and terrorism because they're perceived to be the powerless ones. They're perceived to be the ones with less. Um, it's the same reasons that animate Y. The way the far left views crime when, when, when in inner cities, crime is committed, they don't judge the actors involved. They say, no, it's the system. It's our system. It's our fault. It's, it's this Western imperialist patriarchal bullshit. They blame that. And they, so in addition to not acknowledging the virtues of that system, uh, the virtues of, uh, the, of, of, uh, certain cultures and societies being morally superior. in terms of ideas, better ideas for individuals that can thrive, respecting individual rights, individual liberties and property, a free society. They don't want to judge that as better. And if anything, they judge it as worse, um, which is odd. And I think at the end of the day, it's also about not respecting individual rights, individual, uh, when you view things collectively and collective tribal groups, there's a, there's a part of that that animates things as well. And, um, You know, whether you're on the far left and you decide to call Israel part of the white settler colonialist power in the intersection, and that's the lowest they have to be. We can say whatever we want about them. That's how the left is viewed on the far right. They view. The Jews as this sort of cabal controlling everything behind the scenes working secretly controlling media. It's just dehumanizing language that doesn't respect the rights of any individuals. It's pure tribalism. So whether it comes from white identitarians, and it's motivated by that and their grievances, or far left Marxists or collectivists that view the world in these intersections and abstractions. I think those are the things that don't evaluate things morally and clearly based on the sanctity of individual rights. And which governments protect those best?

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 54:46

hmm. Mm hmm. You know, what's so interesting is the polarization of politics these days, and I think, you know, you kind of mentioned even like two extremes, and I feel like in this issue too, it's like, you know, I feel like if you asked most people on the street, like, what they think, I think most people would give you some type of grounded opinion of like, yeah, you know, Israel was attacked by Hamas, and they should do whatever they can to get rid of the terrorists that are there. Yeah. Because Israel just won't be safe. Otherwise, I feel like most people would give you that, you know, maybe some people would say like, you know, yeah, maybe Israel does have to do what they can, but they're not treating the Palestinians correctly. Like they would give you some type of grounded opinion. Um, where does this polarization come from? Like, why is it that we only hear of the craziest of the crazy opinions in social media?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 55:34

Well, social media, I don't really know the info, you know, the expert answer on that, but, uh, sensational, we respond to a lot of like the sensationalist, uh, click baity stuff that tends to respond to how we engage with it. Um, so long nuanced conversations. Are much harder to go viral on on social media than like little clickbait things at the same time, while people have no attention span, the most popular podcast in the world is Joe Rogan, which is three hours long now. So those two realities exist. Um, but you know, I think the problem is, I think a lot of the worst ideas of, of the left are ascendant in the culture in ways that have infected. Academia, certainly, as we've seen media, corporate America and politics like that, those kind of things have been embraced maybe for decades, and we've seen the manifestation of that on morally confused college kids on campus who are standing in solidarity with terrorist organizations whilst thinking they're being virtuous. But I'm not, I'm not, I, you know, I don't really know the underlying reasons for it other than, uh, there is a tribal instinct in human beings. Like, we thirst to be tribal. Uh, and most of human history was brutal and awful. And people killed each other. Of all races, colors, creeds, we fight, we find tribes, we have, uh, we have an instinct for that and to resist that tribalism is an important thing. Um, It doesn't mean we don't, but, but at the same time, we also do have, we are social creatures that have and social animals that form communities and form common bonds. It's just that when those things turn competitive to the point of violence, that we have to hold to those principles and, and respect even those who are different than us, even if we're not part of a specific community, respecting their right to live freely. And, um, that polarization is playing into a tribalism That's, that's pretty dangerous. That, that, that fosters suspicion of those who are different than us, or, uh, conspiratorial thinking, or, um, or, or playing into ideas that I think, uh, don't respect individuals as sovereign things, but rather as part of collective intersections. You are only virtuous if you're part of some particular community. Uh, race, group, I mean the left does this all the time, the right certainly does it, we know what white supremacy looks like, that classifies people hierarchically by race. But the left does it too, inversely, so. That's all wrong to me.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 58:13

you know, what's so interesting is like, you know, you, you brought up this very interesting dynamic of like this college kid that is pro terrorism and thinks that they're being virtuous doing so. And I was watching Rudy Rothman. Uh, you've had him on your podcast, right? So, you know, he had this 1 video where he went to 1 of these universities and he starts engaging and in conversation with this college kid. And then, and at first, you know, maybe the college kid is a little, uh, you know, aggressive, but he comes around to it and it's actually like, he's listening to Rudy and it's making a lot of sense. And then they start the chanting. And as soon as the chanting comes on, like you see this switch go on and he just starts the chanting. You know what I mean? Despite having this like thought out progressive conversation. And it's so interesting because like, you would think that at the universities, like where it's all about. Yeah. You know, debating and intellectualism and like understanding the ideas, you know, you have this complete opposite, um, just very mob mentality, like losing a self identity, like just despite having a logical conversation about it, like, Hey, maybe this isn't the exact right way to go, like instantly switching back into the, like into the chance. And it's like, and I'm so curious because it's like, I'm sure this kid thinks of himself as a good kid for protesting Israel and having this kind of like pro Palestinian rally.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 59:27

While universities are not currently places of debate and exploring ideas and challenging ideas, it may be once upon a time, they were certainly a public square of, uh, of challenging your ideas. And they're not, they're no longer centers. It seems from the outside, they're not centers of teaching you how to think, but they're teaching you what to think and to be on the side of virtuous causes. They become activist centers. Uh, it seems like a lot of these professors Have a certain view. I think it's stacked obviously in one direction to believe certain things about the West, about, uh, history, certain narratives, a far left wing narrative that teaches you, uh, what to think. And in order to feel virtuous and having a meaningful experience, you want to be on the side of a singular way of thinking that is the right way, that is the virtuous way. And when something challenges that, like, are you really as a. It's for, you know, as an 18 year old, like brave enough to stand with a side that may be perceived that, uh, you know, by, uh, that, that the adults in the room are telling you is the wrong side. The adults in the room are these, are these professors and administrators that are either on board with siding with terrorism or too spineless to call it out. So they created these Frankensteins, so what do the kids expect? In a way, I, I mock them and I have fun making fun of it, but at the same time, you're 18, 19 years old, you're looking, you're still in a student professor adult mentality where you're looking to the adults. And I think there's something alluring about going to college and all of a sudden the plot twists in the movie that you're in, of life, of, oh wow, everything I've been told growing up is the other way, America's the bad guy, the whole time I thought America was the good guy, and now the adult in the room in a short sleeved polo shirt with unkempt hair is telling me, oh my god, it was America's the bad guy the whole time. Wow! So, you know, you want to be a little bit gracious to that, um, and blame where it's really coming from, which I think is the, the professorial, whatever the professorship and the, uh, the administrator that that's putting these ideas in. Um, but yeah, the sheepishness is crazy.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:01:30

It is crazy.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:01:31

but that's at that point in life, you're trying to form an identity and you're trying to be part of something virtuous and meaningful. So it's very sad. Yeah.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:01:41

It's very sad. All right. But I'm, I'm curious, like, what do you think creates real change? Um, how, how do you reach people and talk to them in a way that's actually meaningful that that can change their mind? Because it's like, I would think it's like that Rudy Rahman direction where it's like, he actually went down there, had a real conversation, but it was fascinating. The moment the mob just started that chant, like he switched back,

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:02:01

Yeah, that turned on his tribal button, but Rudy, I think actually is one of the few people. The reason I had him on is because of what he's done actually changing minds. He's not just shouting into an echo chamber. He's leaving it and actually making inroads, I think with people. So he's effective. Um, I, I think also in, in, from what I, the way I take it is just constantly telling the truth to the best that you see it. And. And using clear, precise moral language when you do it, which I think helps reinforce people who are being confused by the moral confusion out there. I don't know if anything I say out there changes someone's mind. Certainly not when I'm being satirical and making fun of it. That's sort of just to provide a little bit of relief in this mess. I'm not, I don't expect somebody who's been chanting from the river to the sea to watch one of my funny videos making fun of them and say, You know what? I was wrong. But that's just having fun with it. We need to have a little fun in life And i'm perfectly happy to mock those who are siding with terrorists Um, but in changing their mind, yeah, I think uh human to human interactions when somebody meets somebody and they're like, you know I thought he was evil, but I actually kind of like him. He actually has like a good vibe and seems like he was honest uh, that may be gonna make me think a little bit so the Human experiences tend to do that, but I don't I don't know at the end of the day It becomes hard to not it's if after October 7th watching what people was was proudly displayed on body cameras if you don't know where you stand if you're confused it's hard for me to have sympathy for that your moral compass is a little bit broken and twisted and I think you need to fix yourself before I can do anything for you so there's that's one mindset at the end of the day but but but there's a lot stacked against us um but maybe it's just meant to be that way I don't know one can get very cynical about it but Just tell the truth.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:03:48

tell the truth. I love that. Speaking of telling the truth, um, when are you getting Jordan Peterson on your podcast, man?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:03:55

Tomorrow, actually. Uh, I don't know. I don't know. Well, yet it remains to be seen, but Manifest, you know? That'll be an interesting conversation, cause we'll both just be doing Jordan Peterson, so. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Ah ha! Well, you know, the whole bloody time it's gonna be like a talking to a mirror, you know? Talking to the Jungian Shadow! So we'll see.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:04:23

dude, I would love, I would

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:04:24

I'm sure it's anticipated, but hey, I did GaryVee and eventually opened VCon with GaryVee himself, so you never know. You never know. I have my sights set. We'll see.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:04:35

Yeah. Um, but going back to saying the truth, I'm just curious. It's like, it's like, I think a lot of people would tell you that their moral confusion comes from, um, seeing the. Incredible amount of civilian casualties on the Palestinian side. Um, you know, it's, it's heartbreaking. It really is heartbreaking. And I think like, and again, it's like, I'm not a military tactician. I don't know what, what would that like? I don't have a better suggestion, you know, I don't, I don't at all, but it's like, it's hard for me to believe that like the, I shouldn't say it's hard for me to believe, but it's like, it's just, it's a very painful, it would be a very painful truth. If the only way to get rid of Hamas would be with the immense amounts of civilian casualties, you know what I mean? And I think people see that

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:05:22

be. It is. It is a painful truth. There's an entire network of terrorist tunnels built underground under every major civilian, uh, entity in Gaza, these UNRWA facilities where they held hostages, these, um, hospitals where they held hostages, they found bodies in Rafah in people's homes. Um, you know, and it doesn't take much or a few, it doesn't take that many clips to give you the perception of indiscriminate, uh, destruction and bombing. You know, you could see a bunch of rubble not realizing that that building housed a window that was specifically outfitted so that a terrorist can go from an RPG and fire at Israeli, uh, soldiers. Um, you know, so you, you see the aftermath and the destruction. And if you rewind and zoom out, you might not know that a rocket was being fired repeatedly from this building. Now Israel could just sit there and keep taking the rocket fire, or they can destroy the building and eliminate the threat. Um, but again, I'm not on the ground looking, but I have spoken to people who have been in the room as they're making these decisions and they are saying no in one case. And yes, in another case, uh, they are saying, wait, somebody's gotta have it. There's a, I've heard stories of, of, uh, someone who was walking a donkey with a tarp over it and they didn't, they couldn't verify what was under the tarp. So they avoided taking out the donkey with the tarp. Turns out later they found out when they took the tarp off, it was full with, uh, Rocket launchers and weapons being used to commit terrorist acts and, uh, attacks against Israelis. Um, it is, it is a shame. War is a shame. War sucks. War is awful. End It quick. Have it be over. Um, you want to get to peace, eliminate those who keep bringing on war. They, they want this. So channel your outrage. If it's hard, it's hard, it's heartbreaking to see these images. Shame on Hamas for attacking Israel. And for committing to doing it, instead of building up a peaceful neighbor next to Israel, which they could have done. You know?

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:07:27

I mean, I appreciate your moral clarity. Um, honestly, I, I would love to have, uh, somebody, uh, like a pro Palestinian, I don't know, person that, that would have similar, uh, conversation. I'd be very curious to hear their perspective as well. But I want to ask you, have you gotten into trouble for your perspectives and what you've, you know, the activism that you've been doing?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:07:48

In what sense, trouble? No, not really. I mean, there's

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:07:53

death threats,

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:07:54

people, there's people in the comments who, uh, are evil. Who celebrate the death of, uh, I don't know. Uh, Israeli children and who celebrate and laugh with emojis at images of kidnapped girls who were about to be raped. There's people like that. Sometimes they're bots. Sometimes there's like automatic free Palestine emoji bots in the comments. Sometimes there's a threat and when there is, I just block them. And otherwise it's text on a screen, you know, that's it. I mean, I lost a little bit of followers in the beginning. I don't know, 15, 000 or so. And then I think I've since gained back more than that, but if you're, you know If you like jordan peterson impressions and gary vee impressions and prince harry impressions and hamas like it you you can leave it's okay, you know uh so That's The trouble but It's not trouble Yet. I hope it doesn't become that. Um so Um, I would say more positive more positive than negative. It's easy to see easier to see negative, but Probably more positive.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:09:00

How about like the Candace Owens interview and stuff, how did that go?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:09:03

How did it go?

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:09:05

Yeah.

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:09:06

Did you see it?

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:09:09

Honestly,

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:09:09

Oh, it went well. It was a nice chat. Since then, I've been disappointed with what I've seen. Even most recently, like yesterday. It's just, whew. I think it probably might require a round two. Maybe that will make some inroads. The lesson learned is like, the way to combat ignorance is not by yelling at it, by engaging with it. But I'm still increasingly getting more suspicious as to what's motivating her and what's going on with this obsession, um, that I've been seeing repeated patterns for that have been definitely disturbing to me. Um, well, yeah, it's just tweets that continue to stoke and embolden some of the worst, most various anti Semites out there. Even if I, I know she has said many, many times she doesn't harbor ill, uh, will towards the Jewish people or individuals or whatever. I see this pattern of love. You know, taking the nefarious actions of some Jews that she may have issues with and extrapolating on that and collectivizing that guilt has to be applied to the Jewish community as an entirety, as a totality, which is so odd because, uh, you know, her critiques of BLM, for example, were all about, you know, Not taking the actions of one bad cop who happens to be white and saying all white people are a problem. Whiteness is a problem. She was very into calling that out, but somehow when a Jewish person is bothering her or does something, it's somehow something else going on. There must be some grand bigger thing behind all this Jewish gangs. You know, weird language that, uh, I do think emboldens a lot of antisemitism. Whether she does it advertently or explicitly, uh, or intentionally or not, you know, it's possible to not feel a certain way about Jews and I'll take that at her word, but, you know, at a certain point, this pattern of wanting to highlight only the worst among us when there's such a disproportionate amount of good, you know, yeah, we got Bernie Madoff. We got Jeffrey Epstein. We also got. Milton Friedman, Simon and Garfunkel, take your pick, uh, Steven Spielberg. Uh, you know, you want to live without all those things to all the Nobel laureates, all the incredible benefits and contributions the Jewish community has made to the world and all the values that Candace advocates for to her own, to the black community over the years, um, to get out of a victim mentality. Do you want to. You want to know like which community has done a pretty good job at being victimized historically but coming out of a victim mentality and becoming successful? It's right next to you. Look to the Jews. So we only, we are only embodying the values that you advocate for, which is makes this whole thing very confusing. Two parent families, education, focus, uh, scholarship, accomplishment, like these are the things that she advocated for to her community, so to speak. So I'm not sure why it's met with suspicion.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:02

Interesting, so when do you think there might be a part 2?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:04

That's, uh, we'll see what happens. I'm open to it, but we'll see what happens. these things.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:11

I mean, thank you so much for coming on to this podcast. I had a really great time. Um, fascinating hearing your story and it's like, I would love to dive deeper into it. Definitely want to do a part two with

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:21

Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:23

yeah,

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:24

Anytime.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:25

Um, yeah. I mean, if there were one thing that you could yell from the rooftops that everyone in the world was listening to right now, what would you want them to know?

ami_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:12:33

I said this actually on another podcast, probably yesterday, but, um, if it's regards to Israel, Hamas wants to kill all the Jews. They say it proudly and explicitly. End of discussion. There's nothing else to talk about. If, uh, if, forget it, forget all these other two state solutions and these kinds of things and policy and anything that's, it's not on Israel, they want to kill all the Jews because they're Jews, not because they took land, not because of any sort of other thing other than the fact that they exist as Jews and as a Jewish state and that's what they want to do, so remember, it's a non starter. Uh, otherwise career advice, just, you know, work really hard and be very, very consistent. And your pathways, hopefully, can be revealed to you. But, write things down in front of you on a little whiteboard of the things you want to do. Work really hard. Um, and uh, Yeah, put in the reps. Those are two completely different messages. But, anyway. Hopefully that's helpful.

gabi_1_05-24-2024_103845: 1:13:31

That's incredible. Yeah. Um, as always guys, the Ami's, you know, contacts and stuff and his podcast and everything else will be linked in the description. Definitely go check them out. Um, as well as you are capable guys, you know, uh, stay curious and to the rebellion, of course.