How To Escape The 9 to 5 with Jessica Hwang

In this inspiring episode of The Gabi Koyenov Podcast, I'm joined by Jessica Hwang, who shares her remarkable journey of career transition and the challenges of balancing professional aspirations with personal fulfillment. Jessica opens up about her shift from a conventional career path to embracing her passion, detailing the profound influence of cultural expectations and parental pressures she navigated along the way.

We dive into practical advice for anyone considering a career change, emphasizing the importance of mindfulness and maintaining a balance between work and personal life. Jessica discusses her evolution. Our conversation also explores the benefits of consistent practice, the power of adopting a beginner's mindset, and the joy of rediscovering childlike enthusiasm in one's endeavors.

As we conclude, Jessica reflects on the transition from merely surviving to truly thriving, discussing how to harness feelings like jealousy as sources of inspiration rather than deterrents. She also shares her insights on creating valuable, positive content in a world that often feels overwhelmed by negativity. This episode is a treasure trove of motivation and wisdom for anyone looking to make meaningful changes in their life and career. Tune in for Jessica Hwang's uplifting story and practical tips on navigating life's transitions with grace and passion.

You are capable, think for yourself, stay curious, spread positivity, and to the rebellion!

Connect with Jessica Hwang!
Youtube -  @JessicaHwangPodcast
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jessicahwangcoaching/?hl=en#
Coaching with Jessica - https://jessicahwangcoaching.com/private-coaching

Connect with Gabi Koyenov!
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/GabiKoyenovProductions
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/journey_with_gabi/
Youtube - http://www.youtube.com/@gabikoyenov

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00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview
01:29 Jessica's Career Transition Journey
09:54 Parental Expectations and Cultural Challenges
14:25 Advice for Navigating Career Changes
19:58 Balancing Work and Personal Life
32:13 Mindfulness and Practice in Career Transitions
37:57 Musical Journey: From Piano to Percussion
38:19 A Life-Changing Epiphany at 19
40:44 The Power of Consistent Practice
43:09 Embracing the Beginner's Mindset
45:11 Rediscovering Childlike Joy
49:50 Shifting from Survival to Thriving
55:52 Harnessing Jealousy as Inspiration
01:05:47 Creating Valuable Content in a Toxic World
01:11:50 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Transcript

0:29

Hello friends in this conversation, I sit down with Jessica Wong. Jessica is a career coach that helps people navigate from their nine to fives into a career of their dreams. she specializes in working with first-generation Americans. Jessica and I are both first generation Americans. And in this conversation, we dove deep into Jessica story of how that transition was from her, from finance to a dream job that she is currently having a dream career. she is the host of the way of thinking podcast. Go check out her stuff. It is in the description. She's an incredible person. And it was a super fun conversation in this conversation as well. We talked all sorts of incredible nuggets of wisdom for how you yourself can go ahead and make those transitions and dealing with jealousy and setbacks and burnout and all sorts of challenges that come along the way. It was a fascinating conversation. I genuinely hope you enjoy it. Guys comment in the comments. What was your favorite part? And be sure to subscribe for the journey. More content is available on apple and Spotify and all other platforms that are not on YouTube and extra content on Patrion. Hope to see you there. I don't remember this podcast is made possible by the men's therapy studio to book a session with a licensed therapist. Go ahead and click the link in the description looking forward to hearing from you. Take care, guys. Enjoy this episode. And subscribe.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:58

Just go. One thing that made me want to interview you was, uh, as we were talking, you mentioned that you specialize in first gen, uh, you know, people that are our first generation here in America and, you know, career transition and you yourself mentioned that I want, I want to give you the chance to share the story in full form, but you know, you mentioned to me that you were in finance and then you transitioned to this kind of life coaching, which, Is not seen as, as stable. And I know for myself with my first generation parents, you know, the pressure to do something that's professional and, uh, you know, they don't, they didn't understand, um, my YouTube channel and podcasting. When I first started now, they're actually fans, my parents, even though I'm not, I'm not big, but they just enjoy it. Um, but I, I, I kind of want to like, talk to you about your journey of how you transitioned from something that was, I guess, like this career path that seemed very stable to something that was less stable. And how you kind of dealt with that with your parents and I'm excited to just dive into that.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 2:56

Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Happy to share. Uh, so do you want me to get started on like what that journey has been like?

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 3:04

yeah, sure. Yeah, I'd love to hear it. Like, so where did you get your start? We can start there.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 3:10

So, yeah, so my start is really like. As you mentioned, I was in finance for a decade and for me, it's my, my, so my parents are Taiwanese immigrants. They came to this country. They definitely raised me with that mentality of you have to have a good job. You have to have a steady, stable career. And I, it's funny because back when I was in high school, like I had all these interests and all these passions, but it was kind of like, but you really, you Do you really want to go down these paths? Like, are they really going to lead you somewhere? I think I want to go like manage bands or something, you know, like I want to go into management. And they were like, well, that's in business. So like, why don't you really do finance? Like finance is such a better thing for you to major in. So, so typical, like, you know, immigrant parents. And, and it's interesting because now I look back and I'm like, you know, I appreciate them for having pushed me in that way. Because They wanted what's best for me, you know, they want Our immigrant parents really like want a better life for their children. Like that's kind of the whole point of all this. And so that's how I ended up in finance. So it's this kind of like go down the study stable path that is guaranteed to make you financial success and stability. And so I majored in it in college and I ended up in corporate finance for the past, like for 10 years, not the past 10 years, but, you That was kind of the right career path in their eyes. And so I did that and I would, I remember being in this, in these jobs and thinking to myself, like some of them I would like, like I enjoyed them to some degree. It's not like I hated my time in finance as a whole, but there was like this feeling inside of me throughout that, where I was going. Is this really what I'm meant to do for the next 30, 40 years of my life? You know, is this really what life is about? Is, you know, kind of this hamster wheel of a lifestyle and feeling like, okay, I make good money, but at what cost, right? Where I just don't feel like there's any meaning to what I'm doing. I don't feel like I'm like really helping anybody. And it's just, It just felt kind of empty. and and so I, there was, there was a lot of this time where I just spent going, Oh, maybe I can like make little shifts. And I would try going into a different type of company. You know, I was in like a big private company and I wasn't a big public company, and then I was in a small company and I was like, and I was like trying different roles in finance. And I was like, maybe one of these things will like make it better. And, and I just kept hitting the same wall, you know, you start the next job and you're like, Oh, this is exciting. Like, great. And you get that little bit of enthusiasm and you do the job for awhile. And I just started, would start to like drain the life out of me again, where I was like, Nope, that wasn't it either. And yeah. And so I like, honestly what really it took for me to really get off the path was really burning out in my job. And it was. Really tough. It was during the pandemic and I was just kind of in this like horrible, like stuck space where I was miserable. I felt like it kind of drained all of the life out of life for me. It was, it wasn't just like during the work day. It was like the whole day just felt like nothing like was enjoyable anymore. And it was that, that really led me to go, okay, I have to make a change. and and I left my job thinking I would maybe go back to finance, but eventually I, I kind of went down this whole deep dive of like, what brings me joy? Like what, how do I bring life back into my days and, and find happiness again? And I realized I just, I couldn't do it to myself again. I couldn't just put myself back into the finance hamster wheel again. and and I started looking elsewhere. I started exploring other career options. And, you know, I was like still trying to go into like an in between, you know, I, I always have this thought of like, Oh, I'll just go into marketing or I will go into financial advising was one that I was thinking where it was like kind of like a slightly different, more seems like a better path, slightly But ultimately I hit this wall where I was like, I think I have to just go for what I love and what I love is really personal development and helping people and, and I, I saw. How, when I would actually tell people about my experience, my journey of like leaving my job and everything, it actually inspired them to do the same thing. And it was that little, like, that little nugget of seeing it in action, like, my friends making bold decisions, that made me go, there's something there. And I can't ignore it anymore. And so that's really what led me to go, like, I'm going to start a podcast. I'm going to become a coach. And yes, as you mentioned, like, these are definitely not your tip. Like, it's not that, that list of careers that we're supposed to do, right? Like the list is like, you'd be a doctor, a lawyer in finance, an engineer. Definitely. My parents were like, what on earth is, what is a podcast first off? Right.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 8:49

Yeah,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 8:50

What is a podcast? What is a coach? Like, they were like, I don't understand. Like, you're, you're bringing out, it's not even that I was like, changing into a different career. It was that I was changing into a career that like, they have not even heard of. And yeah, so it was definitely them going like, What is happening? And and yes, it was it was a process with with that with my parents, but ultimately it led me to where I am now. And it's yeah, it's it's been the wildest journey, but it's one I would do over and over again. I would I would never say like, Oh, I wish I never did that. No, absolutely not. It was the best decision I've ever made for myself.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 9:32

That's incredible. Yeah. And it's funny. I have so many questions, but, uh, I guess to me, I think I'm also lucky that being a therapist requires a master's degree. So it's so it's like, um, a little more acceptable, but no, I mean, like, thankfully, my parents are very proud of, like, the direction that I took, but it's, uh, I definitely see the struggle. I think, like, as a kid, it's strange. It's like, um, You know, you mentioned earlier like that your parents want the best for you. They want a better life than you had. And it's like navigating being a kid in America where, you know, you kind of have like the urge to play Pokemon and, uh, you know, kind of like follow like a dream and whatever, um, it's, it's, it could be an unheard of concept to people that didn't grow up kind of like in Western culture. And I'm curious to know, like, how did your parents take your transition? Um, From being this finance person, which I'm sure like they must've been heartbroken, you know, like they invested so much time and energy for you to like go into this career path. They must've been like, I'm just imagining like, this is my family, like what would happen? Like they would be so proud. And then it's like podcasts, like, come on, like at best they would say, do it as a hobby, you know? Um, so it's like, what did that look like for you?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 10:50

Yeah. it's so true. It's interesting because yes, I agree with you. My parents held so much pride in what I did, right? They were like, our daughter is successful. She has this great career in finance. And, and yeah, it was like, yes, as far as like being able to brag to their friends or brag to our family members about your kids, like I definitely was fulfilling that for them. So it was really hard on them when I, when I made the transition and, and it's interesting because you know, my parents are two different people and they had two different kinds of perspectives. And, but they, Definitely struggled at first and, you know, and I think it was interesting because my mom who I kind of like was talking with through this journey, I think she was like seeing how miserable I was, honestly, and, and so she understood, like, that being in, being burned out in my job was just. It wasn't what she wanted either, right? And, and I want to remind people, like, your parents, as much as they want you to have a great, steady career and all that stuff, the root of all of this is, like, they want you to be happy, too, right? Like, they don't want, like, your parents don't want their children to be miserable. That isn't the point either. Right? It's like, yes, we want they want your stability, but they also want your happiness. And so when I was going through this, I think I was, you know, with my mother, it was like, she was seeing how unhappy I was. And so as much as it was hard on her to be like, understanding where I was going. She also was like, but I want you to be happy. And I want you to, to, I still want you to do better by me, but maybe it needs to look different than, than I know. And granted, my mom is a little more progressive, I will say. And meanwhile, my, my dad, like, very lovingly, but is, you know, he definitely comes from a more conservative space. And so it was very much, it was very hard on him. And, and granted, it's like, I didn't take him through the whole journey. And so he was like, what do you mean you're going to like, Gooey finance, like this is like what we came here for is for you to have this good career and do the right things, you know, and so I think it was harder on him where he was just kind of like, Oh my God, like what's happening? And, and just, yeah, and felt like the rug was being ripped out from under his daughter and thinking that I'm unsafe. Right. And so it's, it was definitely challenging. For, for us to kind of work through that time period. Cause he just like, did not understand it and had a really hard time supporting it because it was just like this. Yeah. It was so out there.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 13:39

Wow. Um, did he come around? Like, is he, has he come around now or is that still

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 13:46

He has. Yeah. I, you know, I, it's interesting because it's, I think we went through a very hard time and granted it's like, you don't know how things are going to progress. And even at that time I was like, I was, I was in the state where I was just like, I'm going to do this anyway. Like whether or not you support me, I know that this is the right thing for me and I need to go down it. And I am, you know, I am very fortunate in that my, like he has seen kind of the transformation and been able to see how like this is making me happier. It is allowing me to help people. And, and so I, he's come around on it. Uh, so, but yeah, so it did take some time for that, for sure.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 14:31

Wow. Okay. Um, so that's great. And, you know, it's interesting. It makes me think about how, uh, you know, a lot of people maybe would kind of not want to have those conversations and, and maybe not realize that, you know, and I guess everyone's situation is different, but a lot of people wouldn't necessarily realize that. You know, having a real conversation with one's parents can really be helpful. Uh, and I'm curious if maybe you have like any tips about somebody that's going through a similar transition, that's like trying to navigate with their parents, like what do you recommend for them to have, uh, to do and to have in conversation? Cause I think some people would just say, Oh, my parents are toxic and I'm not gonna talk to them anymore.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 15:10

Right, right. I think it's, it's, it's really important to remember that your parents love you at the end of the day and they are trying to keep you safe and and grounding yourself and that knowledge of like, that, that is what, Their responsibility is to you and, um, or at least that's how it, how most parents see it, right? Like they want to keep you safe and everything and reminding yourself of that, but also like grounding yourself and where you're going, right? Like grounding yourself in why you want to do this and and really coming to it with like, A deep sense of like, this is the right thing for me. And knowing that for yourself, because it's easy to get thrown off. It's easy to be like, maybe I shouldn't do it because they're not going to be supportive. And it's like, you need to really connect to why you want to do it. Like, why is it that this is important to you? And why do you believe like it will make a difference to yourself and, and really show them like that, express to your parents, like why, uh, this. Why you think this is going to create a better life for you at the end of the day, right? And, and so the thing about it is like, what I would say is, grounding yourself in those ideas, and then really kind of like, becoming prepared, you know? Coming prepared with the fact that like, alright, what is the worst case scenario? The worst case scenario is they might not be supportive, and I love to use the word yet. Because I think it's so, yes, is one of the most powerful words to me where it's just like, all right, in this moment, things might not turn out the way I want them to, but they might change. You know, I, I'm certainly an example of that where it's like, my father was not supportive, but like now he is. And it's like, it might take them some time and know that that know that going in you could be surprised, maybe they will be like, okay, great. But, you know, know that even if they don't. You will be okay. And I think it's really important to remember that. Like, and remember, like, just think of their motivation of even if they say that, you know, things that you don't want to hear necessarily, like, they're, they're just trying to support you in the best way that they know how. And I always like to remind myself that like, Your parents are people, right? Like they're imperfect human beings. They're trying to do the best they can and they are going from their background, their knowledge and for them, especially with immigrant parents, immigrant parents are so hardwired to your safety, right? Like they came, they immigrated to a new country, probably with very little. And you needed to kind of establish yourself in this country. And so, to them, like, financial stability is everything. And so, if you're kind of going and going like, well, this is what I want to do, this is how I am still going to be safe in doing it, and, and managing that, then like, and expressing that to them, like, show them like, you will be safe and you will be okay. Like, I think that will help them so much in the journey. Uh, but, yeah, it's, it's remembering, like, even if they don't support you, it does not mean that you shouldn't do the thing that you want to do. It just means that, like, they just might not understand at this point in time. In which case, like, surround yourself with people who do understand. Right. Like find those, the people in your life who can support you on this journey, who do get the direction you're moving in. And, you know, and I think oftentimes it's like, we can feel very isolated through making big changes in our lives because the people, everyone around us is just kind of like going the steady straight way. And it's like, you need to. Find the people, find the community of people who are trying to create change, who are making these things happen in their lives, so that you know that you're not alone. And even if your parents may not support you, you have that foundation around you to support you instead.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 19:13

Yeah, that's so beautiful. And I love that response. And I love how, um, you know, how, how you kind of approach the situation with maturity. Um, I know you mentioned, like, your parents may not understand yet. And you kind of brought up, like, It'll make a big difference for them if they know that you're safe and they know you're okay. And, and I'm curious, have you ever watched The Office?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 19:35

Yes.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 19:36

So, um, you know how in the end, Andy, uh, wait, did you watch the ending?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 19:44

Oh, I did not watch the last, the final seasons.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 19:47

Okay, no problem. Well, spoiler, do you mind if I spoil it for you?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 19:50

No, go

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 19:51

Okay. Uh, spoiler alert for people that care about the, uh, spoilers in the office. But basically, in the end, um, Jim kind of wants to start his own business. And he's working part time in Dunder Mifflin while he starts his own business. And Andy wants to start a music career. And he basically just quits and starts a music career and it goes horribly and whatever. And I think it's like there's like a Jim way to do things and an Andy way to do things where it's like, how do you like you mentioned like your parents will be fine if they know that you're okay and they know that you're you're safe and doing and I'm wondering, like, is there. Um, look, what, what do you tell maybe clients or people that, you know, they, they're just burnt out of their job. They can't do it anymore. You know, they need to change something. So it's like, they don't necessarily have the emotional strength to be able to, to do things the quote unquote right way of maybe, like, continuing to work while they build their side, like, whatever their, their passion is on the side. Um, you know, so they, they kind of like, maybe, you know, I don't even know what to ask, but it's like, what, what could, what advice do you maybe give them or, or. How do you see playing it the right way? How can you show your parents for real that you are okay? That you're going to be okay? You know what I mean?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 21:05

Yeah, you know, it's, it's really tough because I, I think I might have been the Andy way. And so I try and teach people the gym way. But, um, because yeah, it's, it is really tough. You know, for me, it's like, I really want to help people before they reach that point. Right. Before you reach the burnout and you've gotten to that place where like, I got to leave like it. Yeah. And I get that because I've been that person. And so the ideal situation, which Granted, we're not all going to be in the ideal situation, but the ideal situation is the ability to start building it on the side, like while you still have your steady job. And, and, and granted, even that can be hard, right? Cause you might be so drained even from that, that you're like, how do I find the time? Well, that's where you get the help of like coach, a coach like me, who's going to help you kind of create the space for yourself to build it on the side. That's like, The ideal if you can do it, right? And or, you know, because oftentimes people get very complacent. They don't want to like, start doing it. And so I'm like, no, like, this is the time, like, when you have the time and space, do it then. But oftentimes, we're not like that, to your point, oftentimes, like, we've already reached, like, the 11th hour, we're Just ready to get out of there as soon as humanly possible and I totally understand and you know that that's more my story is I was just like, get me out of here. I can't take it anymore. To me. It's like, it's a matter of if you if you don't know where you're going yet. It's like, how can you find something? To support you and maybe it's like a part time job, like what Jim is doing, you know, maybe it is, or maybe it's finding a, you know, I, I would say from my experience, like working in a big corporation, as much as it is. a little bit soul sucking and not great. Like it does give you such like a more steady, like not gonna, uh, kind of take over your life kind of situation where you can kind of work that nine to five and then have all the time outside of it. Uh, but it's like, it really depends on your circumstances. You know, some people, honestly, it's like, If you have saved up money, which many of us as, you know, children of immigrants, we're very hardwired for savings, right? Maybe you have to take some of that, right? Like it's, it's so common, right? Like we've been like squirreling away the money and that's a good thing, right? Like appreciate the fact that we've been kind of wired that way to save money.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 23:41

Honestly, it's,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 23:42

to take some time off.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 23:43

Yeah.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 23:44

What was that?

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 23:45

No, I was gonna say it's bizarre. Um, like my other friends that, that don't, yeah, whatever. Yeah. Other people that I know that aren't, uh, kids of immigrants, like, they, they live in deficits and constantly in debt and it happens to be like, I know what it's like to live in debt because I had to go through a tough job transition once and it was like, I had to kind of, you know, be able to like, support myself through that time. But typically without that, I was, you know, had that mindset of like, okay, taking 10 percent of my money, saving it, um, you know, putting that away, investing it. And it's like other, it's, it is shocking how that is like hardwired for, it was hardwired for me at least.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 24:21

Yeah, oh, same here, same here. I was definitely the squirreling the money away all the time type of person. Like I lived well beneath my means. Um, so the thing is like, if you're in that situation, then I would say take some time off. Like the best thing you can give yourself when you're burned out. Is time because here's the thing. I remember when I was burned out, I was like, if I try and take another job tomorrow, it will, it would be the absolute worst thing for me because, you know, when you start a new job, you have to show up at 110 percent right? 100 isn't even enough. You want to kind of hit the ground running and be that great employee when you start off. And I was. I was looking at myself going, I don't have that in me right now. And so if you're burned out and you have some savings, I would say, take a little time off, like really take a little time off and just rest and recuperate and bring that joy back into your life. You know, that, that was literally the first thing I did when I left my job was I was just like, what is joyful to me anymore? Like I started. Painting and I started, you know, going into, I love crafts and stuff like that. So like, I kind of threw myself into all that and just like found joy again in my life. And sometimes like when after burnout, you need that space first

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 25:46

Yeah.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 25:47

and it's like, if you've saved up the money for it, do it. Is like what I would suggest, but then it's, you know, obviously we need to be realistic of the fact that we need to support ourselves and it's like, all right, what can you do that could do it? And, and the thing is, think it's almost like, how can we think outside of the box more? How can you think like, okay, Let's say, you know, I have a client who is an artist and she is now working in a store that is like more of the art scene that she loves being a part of, right? So it's, it allows her the ability to be around people that she loves. Wants to be around, you know, be in that community and at the same time, be able to support herself while she's building up her art, her actual like art career or like business, right. And, and so sometimes we need to go look something like that, where before she was working in insurance, so like totally different space. And so it's like, there are, I want people to remember, there are a million ways to make money. And, and I think we tend to think, like, in this little box of, like, I can only make money in the type of corporate job that I've been doing. And it's like, you have so many skills. And you have, there's so many ways to make money, especially in this day and age. And I feel like that's why I'm like, I love, I love helping my clients with this stuff. Cause I'm like, we live in the most incredible day and age, eh, you can start a business so easily with like, I started my podcast with Google and YouTube, you know, I, it's, it's not like the barrier to entry of doing the things that we really want to do has decreased so significantly that it's incredible.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 27:31

Yeah.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 27:31

But like really think about it, right? I have had, I had no, like my, my, uh, I mean, my actual education has nothing to do with what I'm doing right now, right? Like it's, it's like a totally huge shift, but it's, it's so possible in this day and age, you know, and I went back and I got training as a coach. My podcast though, literally Google and YouTube, like that's all it took. And me like checking off boxes of like, what do I need to like start a podcast? So it's like, I love to remind people there's so many ways to do things. That they, that can break them free of what they've been doing, especially if they hated it, you know? Especially if they're going like, I really don't want to step foot in the door of what I was doing before. You don't have to. You don't have to. Yeah.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 28:26

that's so beautiful. That's so cool. I love that, that attitude so much. Honestly. And it resonates with me. Uh, you know, I know for myself with ChatGPT now, and like the, the ability to, to utilize that, it's bizarre. Like my website, um, The Men's Therapy Studio. Chachabity basically made it completely. Um, it helped me. Like, I kind of told it what I was kind of looking for, and it made something that I very much resonated with. But, um, you know, to be able to put stuff out, it gets cheaper and cheaper and easier and easier. Um, thankfully, and it's like, especially if you don't know how to use Chachapiti, people, you gotta, you gotta get on that immediately, you know?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 29:02

Totally agreed.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 29:04

you know, what's interesting is that I think a lot of people don't necessarily realize that they don't have to be stuck in that 9 to 5. You know, um, they don't have to constantly be running in that rat race. And it's, it's kind of shocking to me because like, I talked to like family about it too, and, and other people, and it's shocking how people just think, yeah, I need to work. I need to just do nine to five. Like, it doesn't matter if they're making enough money or whatever. They just will fill that time to be able to just completely work. And I'll be so honest right now. I don't understand how somebody can work a full nine to five and have a life beyond that and get normal sleep. It's, it's just not possible. You know what I mean? Like there's not enough time in the day to be able to just. 9 to 5, get the rest and relaxation you need. And the rest that you need. And then also, do family life and hobbies and whatever. It's just, it's not gonna happen. You know?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 29:51

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because it's the model that we've been, we've been told is right. and and I, I think it's, yeah, it is, it is interesting because we're so hardwired. It's like if everyone, especially, you know, for me, it's like my parents worked nine to five jobs. In steady careers, they worked in their businesses for, for like 25, 30 years. So that was the, what was modeled, you know? And I think for most of us, like we're modeled of get the steady nine to five job. Like it's supposed to do like fulfill all the boxes and like, that's your life. And, and then we start, you know, we do that and we get trapped in it because it's all we've ever known.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 30:33

Hmm.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 30:34

But the reality is, like, there's so many other ways to live. There's so much more we can do with our, with, with ourselves. And yeah, and you're right. It is hard. Like, and I think the thing is, the reality is our nine to fives are taking up a lot more than our nine to five. Like, let's face it. How many times are most of us like going home? I remember for me, it was like, I mean, granted, I was working a little bit longer than nine to five, but like, Nevertheless, it was like, how many times are you taking home your work with you mentally? Right? Like, even if you're not sitting at your cute, your desk or your cubicle, how much are you really leaving it at the door versus taking it home? And it's really taking up your evening too. And you're not, you're not resting, right? You're not actually relaxed. You're not disconnected from it. You're actually kind of plugged in. Even when you don't realize it. And I feel like that's a little bit of what you speak to there, where it's like, who has the time to sleep? And it's like, well, because we're never disconnected and, you know, and it is hard, especially with technology, right? Like we're just scrolling on Instagram. We're just daring at YouTube or whatever the case may be, which like you and I want them to be doing that, but like, you know, that's besides the point, but it's. But yeah, it's like how, um, I, you know, I, I, I really encourage people of like, how can you let your nine to five literally just be a nine to five if you need it, right? Like, cause many of us, you, you might need it to support you while, while you're deciding like, what do I really want to be doing? And it's like. The ability to say, like, I, I go to work, I do my job, I do it well still, but then I leave it at the door and the rest of the time really does get to be yours. It really does get to be where you spend time with friends and family, where you do get to rest, where you do get to enjoy your life. And, and, you know, and, and if you're, you're like me, you maybe are building up the thing that you really want to be doing and let yourself do those things. And, and that gets to move you in the direction of what really brings you meaning to brings meaning to your life.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 32:41

Yeah, exactly. I mean, do you have a thoughts on how to create that switch of kind of leaving your work at the door and continuing your like not bringing it home with you? Like what creates that mental

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 32:52

So, yeah, the way that I coach my clients is really around the ability to, to just like, let your job be a job, let your job just be your job. It's not, and like, don't get caught up in the drama and all the, you know, I, I think the thing is, if you, if you're the type of person where you're like, I really want to be moving forward and like pushing forward, like, great, like, that's all good. Yeah. If you're really trying to make a transition and you're like, this is not what I want to be doing the rest of your life, then maybe it's just like, how can you put forth just be like, do a good job. I'm not saying like, you know, spiral out, like, you know, be a deadbeat at your work. I'm saying like, how can you do a good job, but not push yourself to the point of like, I have to get the next promotion. Don't try and get the next promotion, like just try and do a good job. And, and it really is like letting yourself, like giving yourself the space to go like I'm here, I do what I need to do. And, you know, and then it's not my problem anymore. You know, like, it's, I don't need to get caught up in all the, all these, all the things that happen, right? The office politics and the stuff that's going on and who's getting the next promotion and all that stuff. We, we drain so much of our energy thinking about all these things. And if you just like one of my favorite things, which comes from Mel Robbins, it's like, she, she always says like, let them. And I think that phrase is so powerful. It's like the let them theory is what she would call it. And it's like saying like, you know. People are going to be hounding after each other. They're going to be like having this argument and that thing happening. Let them just let them. And just like, you know, it's in yoga. We talk about this idea of like, be the witness. And, you know, to me, it's like, it's taking that step back, just letting yourself be the witness, letting the environment do its thing. And you just take a step back and just like, let it, let it happen, but don't let yourself get dragged up in it.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 34:58

That's beautiful. And, and I think it, it, uh, goes along with a lot. What I try to teach clients as well, which is like mindfulness, meditation and stuff, and it's like observing what's going on within us, and it's hard to really tell somebody that doesn't have that ability to like switch off. It's hard to really tell them like, Hey, make this mindset shift because they won't understand it. It's like, for many of them, it's not like they want to bring their work back home with them. It's like, they don't have the choice because it's just there. They get so caught up in it. And it's like, being able to breathe and be in the moment and observe what's going on and like, snap yourself into the present moment, uh, is really powerful tool. So it's like, I like that. Like yoga is one very powerful method to be able to do that. So it's like, I really appreciate it. Um, so, uh, yeah, yeah.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 35:42

way.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 35:43

Right.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 35:44

Wait, let me, can I say something off of what you were just saying

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 35:47

yeah, go ahead. Hmm.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 35:49

yeah. So I, I want to just remind people, like everything is a practice. And I, you know, this is something that I will say a lot of my, I feel like a lot of like the way that I am is because of my yoga practice. And I love to kind of learn things on the mat and then bring them into my life. It's kind of the way I look at it. I'm like, this is, this is my like training grounds for, for my life. Uh, but one of the things I love to think about is like, everything is a practice and, and so it's so easy for us to get hard on ourselves when we're, you know, it's like we mentally know, like, this is the thing I need to do, but in reality, I keep like getting thrown off and like, I keep pulling myself back into the thing. And to me, it's like, how can you remember that? It's all just a practice. You know, and every single time it's, I'm just practicing this new method, this new way of being this new ability to like, take that step back to be more mindful to do any of these things. And so maybe the first time it's like, it took this long amount of time for me to figure it out and like get there. But then every single time that you're practicing, it gets a little bit shorter, a little bit shorter, a little bit shorter, and, and really appreciating and recognizing and, uh, What's the word I want to use having gratitude towards yourself of like noticing your progress along the way I think that's how we actually create change for ourselves is like is really having It's noticing our own efforts And, and really thanking ourselves for how hard we're working and remembering it's a practice and sometimes like we're here and then the next time, like all the way, like long form again, right? Like we got totally dragged out into the process, forgiving yourself in that moment, right? And, and having that loving appreciation of going like, all right, I realize I got way thrown off there. Okay. I will try and do better next time, right? It's, it's just information instead of being really hard on ourselves instead of like letting ourselves get dragged down because let's face it, it's like if you're, if you get, you know, if it becomes that big thing, problem again, and then you're really hard on yourself while you're just doubling down and, you know, you're making it harder for yourself to pick your, it's like, how can we pick ourselves back up and try again? And try again.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 38:14

that's so beautiful. I love that. And it reminds me, um, did you ever play an instrument? Do you know how to play an instrument?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 38:21

Yeah. Yeah. I, I used to play a lot of instruments actually as a kid.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 38:25

Oh, that's awesome. Okay. Um, when I, which, what instruments do you play? I'm just curious.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 38:31

Uh, well typical Chinese kid. I played piano for sure. Uh, but I also played the flute and then I was in like percussion playing like the marimba and like the chime, like I was like on all these different percussion instruments. Yeah.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 38:45

Okay. Great. Yeah. Um, but this is interesting. When I was 19, I, I'm going to go into a long winded story right now, but when I was 19,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 38:54

I'm excited.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 38:56

yeah, um, I went to this, like, an undergrad school in St. Louis. It was actually like a rabbi school, but I was getting my undergraduate degree at that time. And. They had this music room in the, in the school, and I was, there was like a high school as well in the, in the college. It was like a high school and then there was like a, a post high school. Like an undergrad study in the same building. So I was with this 11th grader, 16 year old kid. And there was this other guy playing the piano in the music room. And the 16 year old kid starts telling me, he's like, you know, I wish I learned how to play piano. You know, I really, I really wish I learned, um, I could have done it when I was a kid, but now I just don't have time. And I'm, I'm realizing like, you know, it's, it's just sad. And I was telling this kid and, and mind you, I was so busy at this time. This is, it's kind of like, uh, you know, rabbi school. Yeah. It's kind of like a monastery. You're learning very ancient scripts from 7. 30 in the morning and until 11 at night, and it's like prayers and, and just, um, studying transcripts and stuff. So, I told this, I told this guy, and he got like an hour breakfast break, hour lunch break, hour dinner break, so it's like very, very little time. And I told this guy, I was like, you know what, when I was your age, I said the same exact thing, you know, I said, uh, I wish I had, I wish I learned an instrument when I was a kid, but now it's too late for me because I'm a teenager. And as I was telling him that, you know, as busy as I was, I was like, you know what, what if in a few years from now, I'm going to look back and say like, hey, you know, I'm, I'm kidding myself too. Like, I really could do it now. You know what I mean? Cause I was telling him like, you really could do it now. You don't like, you don't realize the time. So I had that epiphany and I was like, you know what? That's it. That, that night I just said I was gonna learn to play piano. And so I had that guy that was playing, he taught me like a few things and I started practicing them. And then I did it with a friend and every day I would play for 20 minutes. And after a year, it's bizarre how actually, like, decently I became, not like a professional piano player, but like I understood basic music theory, I could play any song, basically, I like, I could play a little bit by ear, nothing crazy, but you know, like a decent piano player, you know, kind of demystified music for me and I was, I was able to play. And then I continued and got lessons after that and became decent, right? Recently, I haven't, uh, practiced, but, you know, like, I, like, I actually learned how to play piano. And what's fascinating is, is that I think that skill of learning something, that, that, like, skill that you're talking about, it's so transferable in life to realize that, like, Everything is a practice, you know, when you're starting something new, you're not going to be good at it and it's like you take time and you put in 20 minutes a day or whatever, or even whatever, as long as you're, you're somewhat relatively consistent practicing a little bit, you will get better at it. And, and what's so interesting is I worked in a school, um, a few years later, and I would teach some of the kids, uh, music as well. And I would teach them guitar and piano also. And the thing that they would immediately say. It's like, Oh, I suck. I'm so bad at this. I'm terrible. It's like, you just started it. You know, you got to give yourself some grace. You know, you got to practice it. You don't, you're not bad at it. You just have never done it before. You know,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 42:00

Absolutely. Absolutely. I love everything you just said, because it's so true. I, you know, it's interesting when I, I remember I had this thought in my mind where it was like, Oh, after a certain point, I just like, I'm going to be bad at learning, you know, because we're, I feel like I have this impression, especially with like college, you know, it's like, well, you got to study when you're young. And like, once you reach a certain point, like it's harder for you to learn things. And And I'm like, wow, do I not believe that anymore? Because the amount of things that I've learned and tried to do that, like, I have not had any experience in now. I'm like, doesn't matter. Like, and the thing is like, there's so, it's so easy to learn things these days. And so I love that ability to go. Well, what if I just tried to learn the piano even though I didn't learn it as a kid? Like, who says you can't, right. Who's, like, who decided, who decided that, like, after we turn 20, 25 or something like that, like, we can no longer learn a thing? Like, why was that the, like, idea that we have in our minds? It's so not true. Like, we, I feel like, to me, life is meant for learning. Like, I, I don't know, I, I like to liken myself to a sponge, where I'm like, I want to learn as much as humanly possible about everything. Like, I, I'm just, I love learning. It's, It's kind of my one of my favorite things in this world is the ability to learn and you can learn anything at any age. And I feel like that's so important to remember. But the second thing that you pointed out, which is one of my other favorite things to talk about, is this ability to, what, There's this idea of what is beginner's mind. And so that's exactly what you're talking about, right? Like, how can we allow ourselves to be in what's, what is a beginner's mind when we're starting something out and go, you know, I know I might not be the best when I first start at something, but let me play, right? Like, let me experiment, let me give myself the space to get better at it instead of just going like, I'm terrible at it. Well, of course, like you're just starting out and, and it's going to take practice and time to get better at things. Sometimes we are naturally a little bit better at things than others. Of course, you know, like we have natural tendencies, but it's like, Nevertheless, you have to give yourself a little bit of breathing room and go, and I like to almost look at it as like, I'm excited to be bad at something. Now I'm like, I want to like, see how, because when I get better at it, I'm gonna look back at that and compare it and be like, wow, I, I really improved. Like, how incredible. So it's like allowing yourself to be bad at something. And, or, or not even, I don't like to use the word bad, but allowing yourself to be the beginner at something, right? Allowing yourself to be like, I'm just at step one, like, this is exciting, I'm learning something new. I don't care whether, like, what anyone else thinks, like, it is just so fun for me to do it, to try it, to learn it.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 45:15

That's so beautiful, Jessica. I love that. Yeah. Being able to be that beginner to just give yourself the grace to, to be that beginner, I'm not going to use a bad at it because, you know, um, I agree with that terminology, but I think for, for people's own psyche, they think they're bad at it, but it's like, you know, you're a beginner, you gotta give yourself grace. You gotta,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 45:32

just new.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 45:34

Yeah, and what also resonated with me is like that, uh, your, your curiosity and your desire to learn new things. And that's such a beautiful thing that I feel like it's so sad sometimes when, you know, kids have that, you know, naturally as kids, we, we have that curiosity and, and at some point it becomes almost uncool. Um, you know, I think it's making a comeback, but, but it becomes uncool to be, to be curious in a sense. And it also reminds me, um, it kind of becomes uncool to be happy. You know, I think people think you're weird if you're happy. Um, like just the other day I was, I was with my friend and we were, we were walking in the park and we were just talking and there was this, um, these two kids walking by with their parents or whatever, and they were, you know, Like skipping on the streets, like giggling, like, like, like, uh, maybe it's like a soccer ball or something. And they were like, like trying to like pull the soccer ball away from each other and they were just like skipping and giggling and whatever. And I told my friend, I was like, what was the last time you, you like skipped on the streets, like, you know, giggling, you know what I mean? Like people would think you're crazy if you did that, but like they, they have their onto something, you know, those kids are really, uh, yeah.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 46:37

So, I like to imagine, I will say, I will credit this to my mom, and I love her, and I will credit it to my teacher. Like, I try and be like a kid as much as humanly possible. Like, I am like, to me, growing up is optional. And, You know, my, my mom was always telling me, she's like, don't grow up too fast. You know, like we have this impression that we have to be serious and, and we have to, and to your point, we almost have need to be miserable to like be liked, you know, where it's like misery loves company, you know? And so it's like how often are we surrounding ourselves in like, complaints right in, in this like. We love complaining to each other, we love to say how terrible everything is, and like, that, that, we get sucked up in this kind of state. And it's true, it's like, why is happiness so uncool? And like, to me, it's like, no, I want to play with my life, I want to have fun, like, I, I love to, To me, like, oh, what I was saying before is, so my teacher is 85 years old, his name is Sridharma Mitra, and he really is showing us the way of like, being able to be a kid still, you know, he cracks jokes all class long, and, and it's just this ability to still have this like, playful attitude towards life. Is so missing, I think, in, in most people's lives, where it's like, we've decided we have to be serious. Like, as I was saying, we've decided we have to, uh, feed in to the negativity that is all around us. And, and I think it, it just drags us down, and, and it keeps us stuck where we are, frankly, because we think that to be in, or to be cool, we have to also be complaining and miserable. And, yes, and to your point, it's like, what if there's another way? What if you actually can be happy? What if you can enjoy your life? What if you can, like, have fun and play and, like, be, like, silly sometimes? Like, why is that such a not okay thing to do as we get older? Like, I just think it's crazy. Where I'm like, no, like, I, I think this life is meant to, we are meant to enjoy our lives, you know, there's, it's like, how incredible is this gift of this life that we're living in right now? And why are we just allowing it to be this miserable thing day in and day out? It's like, where can you find these little moments of levity? How can you bring that forth within yourself?

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 49:16

That's so, I love that, I love that. I feel like this whole thing is like bouncing back with things that we love. Um, yeah, like giving that, giving yourself that permission to play and bring that into your life. Um, so important, so important. And it reminds me of what we were talking about earlier about like the nine to five. And I think it's, it's sad. And look, you know, people do what they have to do to survive and that's always respectable. And then, you know, nobody could ever put that down. But like the attitude. To me really should be an, and it's, it's easier said than done. It's like, find something that can make you money in something that you love, you know, and you'll actually enjoy it. So find something that you could actually play with and have that, that curiosity and joy in those sparks in your life while you make money. And it's like, I get it. Some people don't have that luxury per se, maybe, you know, who knows what their conditions are, that they can't do it, but like to the best of our ability, it's like, you know, make that the reality and then don't burn yourself out. You know?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 50:11

Yes, yes, uh, I love how you mentioned being in survival. Like I feel that we've chosen to keep ourselves in survival mode. And it's interesting because, you know, we've been talking about being the children of immigrants And how I feel like part of that, or the, the part of what was passed down to us is being a little bit in survival mode, right? Our, when our immigrant parents, like came to this country, they're in survival mode. Like, that's why we're told, like, get the steady stable job and all of that. And it's like, we've carried that forward. Like we're still in survival mode. And I want you to ask yourself, like, Do you need to be in survival mode? Like, is that the way you want to live your life? Because I feel like, you know, as we've talked about, many of us have been saving all this money, we've been doing all this stuff to like create that stable foundation and it's like, well, what would it take for you to go, Oh, I could be in a thriving mode instead of a survival mode. And I think that's, it's, it's a bit of a mentality shift to go like. We are keeping ourselves stuck is really what it comes down to right and how can you go like because one of one of the things That really helped me move into where I am now is I looked at myself and I said I work so hard. I do every, I know I'm a good worker, you know, I've done so, you know, like clearly I've done well in my corporate route because I'm a good hard worker. What if I took all that hard work and I applied it to things that I actually care about, to things that I'm actually good at? To things that actually make me excited. Like what would that look like? And it was that question that led me to go, okay, I'm going to do this. And knowing, knowing that about myself, where I was like, I'm not going to let myself fail. Right? Like, and even if I did, I would take those learnings and I would do something else, you know, like, I'm not like, I'm not going to end up homeless on the street. Like, I'm going to make sure that I have that safety at the end of the day that we talked about earlier. But it's like, how can you allow yourself the space to go? Like, what if I put my energy towards things that lit me up? What would that look like? Because at the end of the day, let's face it. I remember thinking back and going, if I, I don't care to learn how to do better Excel spreadsheets. Like, let's be totally honest. That is not something that I want to, like, spend my nights and weekends on, is learning how to be better at Excel. But how much will I put forth the effort to learn every single thing about becoming a better coach, a better podcaster? Like, I will, I am endlessly curious about it. I am endlessly going to improve myself in that space and try and be the best version of myself for those fields because I care. Thank you very much. Right? And I feel like that care is going to drive me ahead of the field a million times over than where I would be in finance. I would never be a super successful finance person solely because I did not care enough. I did not have the drive. I did not, like, I didn't have the curiosity, like, curiosity is such a pillar for me because I think it's, it is what allows us to really drive ourselves forward. You know, it makes it so that I'm like, well, I want to figure out how to, I want to problem solve. I want to figure out how to do better at this because I'm curious.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 53:50

Um, yeah, as you speak with that, like, it just, it lights me up, you know, because like imagining the possibilities and I think it's like, if you are actually passionate and interested in something, that's an amazing driver. Like, that will drive you to be successful because you actually care about it. You know?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 54:09

Exactly, exactly. It makes a world of difference. I was, I'm like, I don't, again, I don't want to be a better spreadsheet maker. It just is not who I am.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 54:21

100%. So I'll tell you, I want to change gears for a second.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 54:24

Sure.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 54:25

we met at the podcasting event, I was telling you a little story about how I got this guy on my podcast, Dr. Justin Sledge, who, uh, he's the host of the Esoterica YouTube channel. Fascinating person. Um, I'm, I'm actually, so this is interesting. I'll share this story with my audience. I was a huge fan of his. Huge. Like, I, I love his stuff. I think he's incredible. And he, he's enormous. He has like 700, 000 subscribers on YouTube. Like around that number. So he's really big. So I decided to just reach out to him. Um, and see if he would come on the podcast. And then he ended up actually agreeing to come on. And he came on my podcast. And to me, it was such a big deal. I was like, doctor, it's like, doctor, I'm actually a fan of his, like, to me, this is the whole reason I started the podcast to be able to talk with people that I find fascinating, you know? Um, and, and he is somebody I find extremely fascinating and it's actually created an avenue for me to be able to have a real long form conversation with them. So I'm so grateful for it. And almost immediately after I had him on the podcast, right, I was on YouTube and I saw Chris Williamson. Uh, who's like a famous podcaster and he had Neil Strauss on the pot on his podcast. And I, I love Neil Strauss's books. Like it's fascinating. I'm a big fan of Neil Strauss. And I cannot even explain to you like the jealousy that I was experiencing at that moment, which makes, it makes absolutely no sense. Like I was feeling anger and jealousy, which makes absolutely no sense because it's like Chris Williamson has been doing this for many years, you know, he's got a big name for himself. He's already, he's making like, I'm assuming he's making money through his podcast. I'm like, he has the ability to like fly out to LA, wherever he needs to fly in order to meet with whoever it is. So it's like, it's, we're in totally different situations completely, but I was so like angry and jealous at that moment. And instead of feeling like a sense of that huge accomplishment, which, which it was, uh, to be able to have Dr. Justin Sedge, my podcast, which, which I was a fan, like I was, I was so immediately jealous. It's bizarre. So, um, so I was sharing this story with you and you mentioned. How we need to invite gratitude into our lives. And I want to give you the space to talk about that and like, share your thoughts on that.

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 56:28

Yeah. absolutely. So it's so interesting, right? It's like the moment that we get a thing that we want, we're already onto the next thing. And, and in this case, I love what you were talking about, about jealousy, because it's like, it just diminished. The ability for you to appreciate what you already got, and you're like, Oh, like, why don't I have that now? And so the, the, like, there's two things I want to say, but the first is like, yes, gratitude is one of the most powerful things to me, where I feel like gratitude allows us to go, first off, just like appreciate the moment, right? Appreciate the thing that you just got and, and really sit with that and go like, Oh, how cool is it that I, Was able to have this conversation that I have this experience and like, really like, and allow yourself to like, take that in, right, like, feel that giddiness and excitement instead of just like letting it go and being like, yes, I feel that it's, it felt amazing. And to me, it's inviting more of it. Like that's what I think is so powerful of your gratitude is I'm like, yes, I love this feeling. I had such an incredible experience. And yes, I want to affirm. I want more of these kind of experiences, but like, I'm taking that moment to say, like, this moment also is amazing. And it's, it's not just letting it go, right? Because otherwise it just kind of. We just move right on. We shuffle past it and we forget about it. Two seconds later. It's so, it happens so fast, right? Where you're like onto the next thing. And it's instead like giving it the space to, to really appreciate that moment. Uh, the other thing that's interesting is like this, this ability of jealousy. Right. And, and it's, it's funny because I, so one thing which I haven't shared with you is like my podcast in part. What, a little bit of the spark of it, there were multiple things, but one of the sparks of it was a moment of jealousy, actually. And, and I, I think emotions are so interesting because we can label something like jealousy, like anger, as these bad things that are happening to us. and, and, and, Actuality, I think they're just information. And, uh, to me, it was like, you get to choose how you want to respond to that jealousy. Right? You can look at it, and you can get angry, and you can just, like, feel miserable, and like, you know, It's, it's that spiraling downwards. Or you can take that jealousy and let it turn it into inspiration. And, and that is to me like the, I think jealousy could actually be a really powerful thing. I think it actually can lead us in the direction we want to move in because I think jealousy is, I think it's cool where I'm like, Oh, when I'm jealous, I'm like, I get to then discern is that something I want? And if that's something I want, How can I move myself in that direction? Right. So for you, it's like, you're already moving in that direction. So you could take that jealousy and go, how amazing is it that I already just have this incredible person on my podcast. And like, I'm already moving in the direction where I'm going to have that next person. He is going to be on my podcast. I've already decided for myself. Right. And let it inspire you in that direction. Instead of, instead of it being this negative thing. Right. So for me, it was like, I looked at my jealousy of someone else starting a podcast and I was like, why am I jealous? And I was like, Oh, I want to start a podcast. And I was like, okay, let me start to move myself in the direction of starting a podcast. But you can also look at it and go like, Do you even want that? You know, I think it's interesting because sometimes we're jealous and it's like, you don't really want the whole picture. There might be a portion of it where you're like, oh, I like that element and really like asking yourself that question of why am I jealous and not having it be a bad thing, right? Letting it be information and go. Okay. I it's funny. I was telling the story the other day. I had a friend who moved to Hawaii and was, uh, like traveling through there and took time off and like was living in Hawaii. And I was like, Oh, I'm so jealous of her. And then I thought, thought about it and I was like, do I want to do that? Do I want to go and move to Hawaii? And I had to come to terms and be like, I don't think I actually want to move to Hawaii. I would like to go to Hawaii, but I might not actually want to move to Hawaii. And so it kind of reshapes that jealousy into like, well, do I want to move in the direction of trying to go to Hawaii? You know, like, or whatever the case may be, but it allows you to create direction for yourself instead of it being this, this negative thing and appreciate what you have, I think is, is what is extra powerful, right? Be like, okay, I have the power within me to move in that direction.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:01:27

Right, right, right. So I love that idea of letting the jealousy fuel you in a sense, like discern. Like, Hey, if, if I'm jealous, there's something that I want there. Like say, um, say in your case with the Hawaii thing, you didn't actually want to move to Hawaii, but maybe there was like an idea of, of like freedom there, you know, um, but being able to, to chase that. So like, how can you add more freedom in your life or something like that? You know? Um, and then that other idea of, of, uh, of, Of allowing yourself to feel gratitude. And why I think that's so powerful is because you're right. It's like, we just let these things pass us by, you know? And it's so sad because there, there's so much beauty to appreciate. And it's like, if, if we're not going to, it's, it's just like, what's the point? You know, what's the point of anything if you're not going to appreciate what you have and you know,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:02:16

Yeah. yeah, Here's the thing, right? It's like, we are, I think, You We tend to be so focused on that end result, right. This, this like amorphous, I don't know actually what it, you know, like, but the goal, right? Like, we're like, this is the goal. This is where I'm trying to get to. And we forget about all the little steps that came to getting to that goal. And even when we hit that goal, we're already onto the next one, right? Like you've already created the one after that you didn't appreciate or enjoy that reaching that goal half the time. And to me, it's like, how can we enjoy the journey, right? How can you enjoy all the little steps that it took to get there and and really see the, and appreciate those little moments, those little wins, those little things that happen that are really the, in the, at the end of the day, they're the big things. Right, The actual things that matter are all of the little steps that it took you to get there and enjoying the process and going like, yes, I got this little thing and it's taking me in the right direction and it's helping you move forward. Like grounding yourself in that is how we keep ourselves a motivated and be enjoying the journey. Cause like there's a lot more days. Let's be clear. There's a lot more days on the way to that goal than there are at that goal. When you get that goal, it's probably, it's like one day, or as we said, it could be one second practically. Right. You're like, I got it. And then you've moved on. No, like, yes, really have gratitude for that moment and all the little moments in between.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:03:55

that's so well said. We were talking about, uh, content creation. One of the things that I find, and this is interesting, and I think it's partially my own fault, of course, because the algorithm just feeds you what you like, um, but I find that, you know, social media can be a toxic place and stuff, and I find that there's a lot of

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:04:16

Um,

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:04:16

Overexposure to things that I feel like it's it's so it's so insensitive like I feel like there's something like war images that get sent out and things just very like graphic things and it's like, we're human beings. We're not meant to like, see that on a daily basis. I think that's very traumatizing and it happens to be for myself. I don't like, look at that stuff, but I know for other people that I work with. Other people I work with and people I talk to, they get overexposed to this and it causes a tremendous amount of, of anxiety. And I think, um, additionally just the, the nature of a lot of content is like very toxic and at best it's just useless. You know, it's just kind of like crap to excuse my language. Um, and it's like, I, I, one of the things that really inspired me, one of the people that really inspired me early on was Jim Rohn. Are you familiar with Jim Rohn?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:05:01

Silence.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:05:03

like the original, he's like an OG guru. Um, from, I don't know exactly when, like the nineties, eighties, maybe, um, probably a little bit earlier. So one of the things that he says is you have to guard the door to your mind. You know, um, we just allow so many things in that are toxic and unhealthy for us, and it's like, we really need to be careful about what we, what we let in. So one of his things is like. He doesn't listen to the news. Definitely not in the morning. Because it's like, you don't want to start your day with like, uh, these people were murdered and that was, uh, this tragedy happened and whatever. Like, that's not a great way to start your day. Um, and one of the things that I think about content is like, how do we make it So that people that are watching it are, yes, entertained and, um, also get a tremendous amount of value from it, that it progresses their life forward, you know, like value in a good way, not just like a cheap mind blink, but something that was actually educational, thoughtful. I personally, I tried, I don't think I do the best job at this, but I try to do that with my reels and it's not like I have so many, but it's like, I try to think about like, What in the podcast was maybe something that could be like conversed over and maybe somewhat valuable, um, and like break it down into that. And it's like, same thing with my podcast. I try to think about, like, I think this is so valuable. I think anyone that watches this could get so much value out of it because you're, you're a fascinating person, Jessica, and it's like, I'm, I'm so happy to hear your story, but I'm just wondering if, if you have thoughts on that, like, uh, on creating valuable content,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:06:28

Yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting because I, I feel like I've talked to so many people about the negative aspects of social media and they are real, right? Like it is, it is possible, you know, it definitely has certain elements where it can drag you down. Um, and, and I think that we have to. The thing that I think about for myself is like, I firmly believe, like, I'm trying to create stuff, to your point, that is of value to people, that is helping them, that is enlight enlivening them, uh, and, and so it's, to me, it's like, it's people like us who are putting out good content. And, and really grounding myself in the fact that I know that I firmly believe that the things that I'm putting out in this world, I don't know who, but even if like one person is benefiting from it, it's worth all the time, work and attention that I'm putting into it, right? Like that, that's what drives me forward is I'm like, someone needs to hear what I'm saying. Someone needs to hear this conversation. I hope it's many people, but someone does. And, and I go from that element. As far as my own creation is the idea that if it's benefiting one person like that. That means something, right? But the thing about it from the other side, as a consumer, and even for ourselves, is like, you really have to curate. And I think that what, um, what, it was Jim Rowan you said? What he said is incredibly true, where you need to curate. What you are taking in because we are, you know, we're, we're constantly being bombarded with stimulus these days. Right? And so it's, it is guarding yourself as far as what you're taking in. So I, yeah, I agree with you. It's like, how can you minimize the news? You know, it's, it's definitely not a good way to start your day. How can you curate your feed? How can you change like who you're following on your Instagram? Like if someone Seriously, if I am scrolling on my feed and something triggers me and makes me feel badly about myself or makes me feel badly about the world, I'm gonna unfollow them or I'm gonna mute them, you know, like, I don't want to be seeing that and I, I get to have the choice around that. And yeah, and it's like, if you don't want, if you feel uncomfortable with someone, you know, and you don't want to like fully unfollow them, like you can mute them, right. If it's like kind of triggering you in some sort of way, we, we have to remember that we have agency. And I think that's really important because I feel like we tend to go like, Oh, well the world is terrible. And all these things, like we can't get out of it. And it's like. To me, we get to choose how we see the world. Yes, there are terrible things in this world. I am not discounting that. I would never do that. I think it's important to know and be aware of the things that are going on in this world. But, it's like, we don't have to drown ourselves in that, right? We don't have to drown ourselves in the negativity, in the terrible things that are going on. What if you can look at social media and curate it for to be a place where it's like uplifting you in reality? What if it can be a place where like the things that you're seeing on your feed are inspiring you are making you excited are making? You want to get off of it and then go and do the things you want to do, right? Like why why can't it be that? Because you have the ability to change it into a, into a more positive place for yourself. And I will say I've definitely done that for myself. It's like, no, most of the people I'm following, it's like, it's because they inspire me, right? They're the people that make me go like, yes, I want to do more of this. Like, yes, I want to create more of this content. So it's, we, we have the ability to change, uh, like, Tune your dial to, like, the things that you want to be, to, to be coming into your world and, and letting that be a choice. So, it, that's what I like to remind people. And, and here's the thing, like, I know, as, I, I feel like I, I'll say this to you because I feel like a lot of content creators, like, need to hear this. I have a lot of people in my life who are like, Social media is doing nothing for me. I hate it. Like they have such a negative attitude towards Instagram. And, and it's because they're like, Oh, it's a time suck. And I will tell you, I was one of those people. That's why I can say all those things. It was like, that's how I looked at it. I was like, I hate Instagram. I hate being on it, you know, like, and I had this whole running dialogue around it. And to me, it's like, I had to change my relationship with it. And something that is like a firm practice of mine is anything that I'm like, I, I'm resisting or I'm having like a negative attitude. I'm like, how can I show a tiny little bit more love towards that thing? How can I change a little bit of my relationship with that thing? And to me, it's like how I had to think about like, what is Instagram to me? I see Instagram as my means of connecting with way more people than I can connect with in my day to day life. It is a point of connection to me. And when I look at it from that lens, it allows me to be like, Well, I, it's just letting me reach more people who need to hear the things that I'm saying. And that has helped me so much in changing my attitude towards it and changing my ability to like be like, all right, so yes, sometimes I get caught up in it, you know, it happened this morning where I was scrolling a little too long and then I like forgive myself and I go, but I still like it, you know, like it's still serving a purpose in my life and I'm okay with that.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:12:13

That's so beautifully said. Sorry, I do have to rush out because my wife is, um, Yeah, my wife is gonna kill me. but Jessica, this has been an amazing conversation. I'm so happy that I had you on the podcast. I'd love to do a part two at some point. Um, if you'd love to have me on your podcast, I'd be happy to come down. Um, if there was one thing, first of all, obviously people could find you in the description, um, you know, your, your. Instagram and podcast and all other information will be there. So guys, definitely please check out Jessica center, some love, but if there was one thing that you can yell from the rooftops that if everyone was listening to right now, uh, what would you want them to know?

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:12:56

Oh, I would want them to know that just to have more fun with life, to just like dance with it, right? Like just dance with the highs and the lows. Don't get so caught up in all of the, all we, we create all these stories. We create so much of this, like negative feelings about things, but just let ourselves like dance with life and just enjoy it more. And I, I just think that in doing so. You just, you never know what will come your way.

gabi_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:13:31

That's so beautiful. Uh, I love that. And guys, I just want to add, don't get stuck in the nine to five rat race, you know, figure out what you want in life and go get it, you know,

squadcaster-c6ee_1_06-14-2024_102122: 1:13:41

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on your show. It was a real pleasure. It was so nice having this conversation.

1:13:48

All right, friends that concludes this conversation with Jessica. I hope you enjoyed it. Please comment in the comments. What was your favorite part of this conversation? What did you find most valuable? I'm curious to hear from you. And again, guys send Jessica some love her links. Aren't in the description. As well guys be sure to subscribe at next week. I'm having Michael He is this incredible entrepreneur. He's super cool. He is an Instagram influencer. And that conversation was all about turning pain and traumas into an asset. It was a fascinating and in-depth conversation. So I'm so excited for you guys to enjoy it, subscribe for the journey. And don't forget guys, the men's therapy studio. If you need to connect with a licensed therapist, we are here for you. Take care of. And always remember, stay curious. Thank for yourself. You are more capable than you think you are. And to the rebellion.