Protect Species Podcast
This podcast is a production of the Global Center for Species Survival, which is a partnership between the Indianapolis Zoo and the International Union for Conservation of Nature Species Survival Commission (IUCN SSC). We record all episodes at the Indianapolis Zoo in the Bedel Financial Media Studio, made possible by a generous gift from Elaine and Eric Bedel.
Protect Species Podcast
We Bought a Zoo: How Zoos Contribute to Conservation
Ever thought about what it would be like to grow up surrounded by roaring lions and playful lemurs? Join us for a wild tale as we chat with Aaron Whitnall from Hertfordshire Zoo (previously known as Paradise Wildlife Park) in England! Founded by Aaron’s grandfather on April Fool's Day, 1984, this zoo had a rocky start as "the worst zoo in Britain." But with dedication and passion, Aaron and his family transformed it into a hub of conservation excellence. From hilarious school stories to the thrill of having bedrooms overlooking big cats, Aaron's childhood is anything but ordinary.
We also explore the incredible conservation efforts led by the park and its sister establishment, the Big Cat Sanctuary. Hear firsthand how they collaborate with other zoos, aquariums, and botanical gardens under the IUCN Species Survival Commission's network to reintroduce native species like hedgehogs and swifts, and imagine the potential return of larger predators like the European wildcat and lynx. Aaron offers a behind-the-scenes look at the challenges and successes of running family-operated zoological parks and their significant contributions to preserving wildlife.
And if you're curious about the power of television in conservation, we discuss how a partnership with the BBC has boosted the zoo's outreach. Get a sneak peek into their plans to expand globally, bringing their conservation message to new audiences starting with China. This episode is packed with engaging stories and insightful conservation efforts. Listen now and get inspired by the remarkable work of Aaron and his family!
Links:
Hertfordshire Zoo
Big Cat Sanctuary
One Zoo Three
What do zoos, aquariums and botanic gardens contribute to conservation? Today's guest has plenty to say on the topic. We're joined by Aaron Whitnall from Paradise Wildlife Park in England, aka my old homeland. I'm Monnie Boehm.
Speaker 2:Hi and I'm Justin Berkoff. Welcome to the Protect Species Podcast, where we celebrate biodiversity and converse with conservationists. Biodiversity and converse with conservationists.
Speaker 1:Justin, if you had to run a zoo with your family, what do you think that would be? Like Mad, or actually successful, sensible, or just I don't know chaos.
Speaker 2:I mean it could be all of those things right, Like trying to run a zoo in and of itself is just kind of a fun adventure. And then you add in the prospect of doing it with your siblings and your parents and it just gets a little bit wilder. I mean, none of my family's got any real animal background, so it makes it a little bit more of a tricky question to answer what do you think about yours?
Speaker 1:Oh, I mean, we used to have quite a lot of pets. Does that count? When we were kids? But I don't think that counts. I think my dad would generally kind of think that we're doing everything wrong and would just tell my dad no, we're doing everything right, and that's how the entire day would be spent. Sounds exhausting. It does sound exhausting, which is why, funnily enough, we never opened a zoo. Yeah, interesting, I know, I know it's not. I mean, we did have that conversation, obviously at the dinner table. Shall we or will we not? No, we didn't. I think that would have been. That would have been quite nuts. What animals would you have in your zoo?
Speaker 2:If you did have a family owned or just a Justin owned zoo. I I really love antelope. So when I was a zookeeper, the first group of animals I ever took care of were antelope, and they're always quite a bit of fun. And as far as the way you take care of them in a zoo, it can vary quite greatly. But if you have a large piece of land you can let them just do antelope things and it's not super intensive to manage them. So I think that would probably be the way I'd go. Big cats are always fun.
Speaker 1:What about cheetahs? They've got famously small heads.
Speaker 2:Cheetahs could be fun. Cheetahs are very picky animals Speaking of picky animals.
Speaker 1:How would you look after a hedgehog?
Speaker 2:Carefully Correct With gloves.
Speaker 1:With a lot of safety equipment.
Speaker 2:What about you? What kind of animals would go in your zoos? What about birds? I know you're a big fan of birds.
Speaker 1:I would choose the better birds, ie the reptiles. I think I would ultimately have a reptile zoo, a reptile zoo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be pretty cool.
Speaker 1:And a guard dog.
Speaker 2:Just one, well, maybe three or four, maybe three, so you don't overwork him or her.
Speaker 1:Be very busy dog. They take shifts, they take shifts yeah absolutely Come on. That's workers' rights and stuff.
Speaker 2:Is there seniority on that?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean one might you know, supervise, and the other ones might be trainee guard dogs. I don't know. I haven't really fully thought it through.
Speaker 2:And I also would like a donkey Excellent. But the reason we're talking about this is our guest today grew up at a zoo that his grandfather founded and his family continues to run, and so, yeah, you know, it's a different sort of experience. It's a different childhood, isn't it? I would assume?
Speaker 1:it is. Yes. I mean, when I was a kid, my dad just wanted me to be a banker. Can you imagine that? No, I can't even begin to imagine that. I can barely look after my own savings account. Do I even have one? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Does it give interest? I don't even know.
Speaker 1:Am I interested in interest? Not really. It's just not quite my cup of tea. But that was more the traditional jobs. Right, Do something with your hands or be a banker, I don't know.
Speaker 2:So you'd count the money by hand. You know most of the money is digital these days, right, yeah, you see, I would have not been made for this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I would have been what? No me with an abacus or with a stick kind of insanity For our listeners we may need to show a picture of an abacus, and I really want you to teach us how to use one.
Speaker 2:No, no, okay, but we're going to talk to Aaron today about growing up at a zoo, how his life has been shaped by it, what zoos and aquariums and botanical gardens can contribute to conservation, and a little bit about being a public figure in that space which we're aspiring to be, not which we're not, we're not, we're definitely not.
Speaker 1:We might be aspiring to be, but we're not.
Speaker 2:Advanced amateurs. So good morning, Aaron. We were wondering if you could start by telling us a little bit about Paradise Wildlife Park. It's not a park that we're really familiar with here in the States, but it sounds awesome.
Speaker 3:No, that's fine. Firstly, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to come on and it's been amazing to go around Indianapolis Zoo so far and be here for the IUCN Center of Species Survival Conference as well. So yeah, my background is from Paradise Wildlife Park in Hertfordshire, england. We also have a sister park in Kent, england, called the Big Cat Sanctuary. Both parks are owned and run by my family, my granddad. He founded the park, paradise Wildlife Park, back on April Fool's Day, 1984. Nice, what a day to buy a zoo. It was actually already a zoo, but it was dubbed as the worst zoo in Britain when he bought it, which again just makes for an even funnier kind of joke. He'd never worked with animals before. Some of the species that were there he'd never even seen before. So we always joke. He's the living definition of the term, winging it when it comes to that was great, I mean of the term winging it.
Speaker 2:when it comes to, I mean, how does the family react to that? Be like hey, I you know, because I remember my, my dad bought a car and came home and my mother was not pleased because he had made a somewhat significant purchase but like, didn't buy land and animals so like how did that?
Speaker 3:go over. It was uh prices.
Speaker 3:No, you know what we actually still have all of the newspaper articles from the local press. Uh, there were newspaper articles written about him saying that he'd gone mad oh, that's good since buying this land. And, uh, we had the judge who gave the zoo license for the zoo to continue come and do a speech at our 35th anniversary and he was saying that even before they got into the court to give the um decision that they would continue the zoo license, he was being pelted with like rotten fruit and veg. The reputation of the zoo was as bad as you could possibly get. And, um, my granddad just he just discovered this passion that he had. Uh, because he was made to care for the animals early on. With regards to the council saying you can buy the land to continue your coach business, but you need to care for the animals that were already there. And, um, he was like that's fine, I like animals.
Speaker 2:I'll give that a go. I mean, they have lions and tigers and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:It's like the same thing, right, exactly. But no, he, he just fell in love. And he always says within a couple of months. He used to live about 20 minutes away from the zoo, and he always says that, uh, it was just one morning he woke up and on the drive in he was just like I've, I've started loving this so much I'm going to sell the coach business today. And he got there and just gradually started selling off the coaches. He had loads of garages and depots all around the area as well, so he sold them off and used all the money to reinvest back into the zoo.
Speaker 3:Now the zoo was actually a um. It was being used as a local dump site as well as still having the animals there. So it took 18 months just to get the site cleared and tidied and build new areas for the animals. And I mean the lion that was there. He was in an enclosure, well, a cage smaller than this room. It was made of scaffolding with tarpaulin over the top, and he was 16 years old when he moved into the new facility that my grandma built for him, and they believe that it was actually the first time he'd ever touched grass in his life. So it was a real, like amazing moment. Absolutely terrified the goats and sheep that were next to the lion enclosure because they'd never seen a lion before.
Speaker 2:I mean that's reasonable, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, oh I thought for a second that the lion was terrified of the goats and sheep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, literally, also fair.
Speaker 3:Also afraid of. But that moment proved to be a real turning point in in everything that we did. And from there, because prior to that no other zoos were interested in in the zoo continuing either. So he, he couldn't get any help from anyone. So a lot of the coach drivers became the zookeepers literally overnight, and this is what I mean. Everyone was just learning as they were going. And, um, it was only because another wildlife park came up to see the new enclosure he'd built. They were so impressed they gave us some lionesses to go with the male um, so he had some companionship for the rest of his life and that was it. From there it just snowballed.
Speaker 3:And even though we've we're a very small park we're only 30 acres, the zoo itself is about 16 um, we've, we've just grown and grown and grown, but, uh, big cats is generally what we specialize in. A lot of the animals that the zoo started off with were, uh, animals that were coming from circuses. There's a lot of the circuses in the UK were being shut down and animal licensing became a thing in the UK. And, um, and yeah it, it got to a fantastic point the way that we managed to get the park to um, to a really good position. Uh, because we had no right really, in terms of our size, to be doing as well as as we were was back in the day we started doing animal experiences. We come and meet and feed the animals, um, and obviously back in those days it was a very different world so there was a lot more you could do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little wild at times.
Speaker 3:You see pictures you're like oh, I don't know about that yeah, exactly, um, but they used to take uh animals onto shows, big shows in the uk. Uh, there's a show called Blue Peter which has been like a British institutional film and we would take a different animal on there every week, for example, and it just got the word out there. A little bit about the zoo. And then in 2001,. Basically, my granddad was approached by a farmer who had taken on two lions from Windsor Safari Park, which is now shut down, it's now called Legoland. And yeah, he said, look, would you be interested in buying the land, taking care of the animals? And from there there were a few more cats that he'd started to gather from other places as well. The big cat sanctuary started. And yeah, here we are all these years later. So now my mum's, the CEO granddad bless him, he's taken a bit of a step back. He just enjoys, gets to enjoy the parks. And now my two brothers and I are involved, dad's involved, brother's wife's involved, and it's a real family affair.
Speaker 1:That's so awesome. And also, to be quite honest, when I think back to coach trips I was on, I feel coach drivers are the most qualified people to be zookeepers. I think that's a fair statement to make.
Speaker 2:So one of the questions we like to ask guests is like well, how did you get into this? And clearly it's, I mean, birthright feels a bit strong, but like you were born into this, but how did you end up in the role that you're in now? Cause we talked a little bit um, when you first arrived here in Indianapolis, that you know this isn't what your formal education's in. So you want to kind of touch on that and how that ties into what you're doing now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course I mean. So. Both of our parks are charities, so we do have um trustees in that as well. But um what? My education, obviously being being born into the zoo, literally like we've grown up our whole lives on site. My bedroom overlooks the tigers. My other brother's bedroom overlooks the lions.
Speaker 1:My other brother overlooks the lemurs was there um fights between which which brother gets which bedroom?
Speaker 3:I'm the oldest, overlooking yeah, yeah, uh, no, no, to be fair, we're all, we're all. Pretty good to be fair. Um, the neighbors are a bit noisy, but there's not too much you can do about that. But um, no, obviously it meant for for an amazing childhood, and it was a real funny one, because when we were really small kids you just think living at a zoo is normal, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like nobody.
Speaker 3:Not everyone does this at home Exactly, it's only when you get to secondary school or high school over here that you know when you have that first class where you're introducing yourself to the rest of the class. So I live at Paradise Wildlife Park and everyone in the class was just like what, yeah?
Speaker 2:John opened it like excuse me, that's a thing. And what?
Speaker 3:was really funny was the very first class we ever had at school was a biology class and the teacher came out and went does anyone have any pets? And because my surname being W everyone just slowly turned to look at me at the back of the room and were like you should probably go first.
Speaker 2:It's the cool pet game.
Speaker 3:I was like and I'm going to win and it's not even close, yeah, um. So, yeah, obviously we've grown up at the zoo. We've also grown up going to, uh, lots of zoos around the world, going to. We feel very lucky with the opportunities we've been given to get involved in conservation as well. Um, just growing up. But at the same time, we also worked, as I worked as a keeper for 10 years down on the zoo and um worked with pretty much all the species that we have.
Speaker 3:Um did a bit of everything and then, um, from there, uh, just with some of the stuff going on at the zoo. Our family had always said look, always make sure you you have a backup plan, just in case anything happens. Someone could come in and say oh, we're actually, we want to, yeah, we want to buy the zoo, we want to do something like that. So they said just make sure you have a backup plan. So, uh, yeah, my actual studies I studied to be a sports commentator. Um and uh, my campus was wembley stadium. Can think of worse places to have a campus? Yeah and um, but no, well, while, um, while my brothers and I were all away at uni doing different things, um, a few things kind of were sorted out within the family, which meant that, uh, when we came back into it, uh, basically, mom was mom was running the show.
Speaker 3:Now dad was also a director. He looks after all the secondary spend elements at the zoo. Um, and my brother, he looks over all the marketing, my other brother looks over all the media. But we'd always wanted to work together as a family and we'd always had this dream of. Granddad has done such an amazing job getting the parks to where they are now and that will forever be his legacy. But what we want to do is continue his legacy and build upon that and um, and that's what we sat around the table to do. And because I've always been the most animal focused, and and because as a family, it's really funny whenever we go to other zoos. I'm sure most zoo people will do this. When you show people, your like holiday pictures and people are. Show us the animals.
Speaker 2:You can show them signs, you're like check out this lock and this amazing door. Like when we were at Shifter. People were like look, how clear these glasses. It's like I did a zoo visit with another zoo friend and we were standing in front of a cheetah enclosure and they have really small heads, they do have really small heads.
Speaker 2:Monty's favorite fact about cheetahs um, and we're checking out where the shift doors are and they had a lure system that was built into the yard and we're like taking pictures of that. And this lovely guest walks up to us and she's like, yeah, the cheetah's down here in the front. And we like looked at her and in retrospect it was super rude, like yeah, we saw it, that's not what we're here for. And we're like still just geeking out about the way this habitat was designed and she just looked, like, shook her head and like walked away. She was like that was weird so yeah, no 100 appreciated it's.
Speaker 1:She learned to stick leo justin burkhoff.
Speaker 3:It's probably for the best rude but um, but yeah, as uh, since 2017, we've kind of started reinvesting and rebuilding uh into the park, because for a lot of years, everything paradise made went into building up big cat sanctuary. Yeah, and then we got big cat sanctuary to a point where it can stand on its own and both parks are a very different model from each other. Paradise is very much open to the public, so in the summer you can have up to 4 000 visitors a day. Big cat sanctuary it's not open to the general public, it's just you can only do experiences or lodge stays and stuff like that there, so you get about 30 visitors a day, which is very nice, we have open days which we get 4 000 visitors a day for, but usually that's only for like a week a year.
Speaker 3:Uh, the rest of the time it's just about 30 visitors a year that's nice.
Speaker 1:That's a coach load, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3:What's really cool is those, the visitors that come to big cat sanctuary are so passionate about their animals as well. So, uh, where it's all just guided tours and stuff like that, it's it's already with people that are just like, oh, I love this animal. Yeah, oh, I know exactly what this is, whereas nine times out of ten it's it's a species that most people haven't heard of before. So that's, that's pretty cool. Um, and yeah, we've just been reinvesting into the zoo and, and my role now is to oversee both the master plans for our parks and, uh, what we want to do, uh, on site at both parks over the next kind of 20 to 30 years. And then, alongside that, we're working with a fantastic company to help help bring the zoo together in terms of its layout.
Speaker 3:But we've also got a conservation master plan, we're working on, sustainability master plan we're working on but also a cost master plan as well, so that we know we're trying to be as conservative as we can with our money and and try to create animal exhibits in a really unique way. So, for example, when we did our tiger enclosure, we actually created, uh, the visitor walkway of recycled shipping containers, for example. Um, because to buy them second hand of online is next to nothing, but it creates a really interesting sustainability story. So it's all unique things that we're looking at when it comes to that visitor side of things and then from an animal side of things. I think the future for our parks is looking at creating really unique mixed species habitats that the animals can live in. That will create fantastic naturalistic enrichment for the animals but also be incredibly engaging for visitors to see as well.
Speaker 1:I think next time I go back to London I have to come and visit Paradise.
Speaker 2:Wildlife Park. I think we're going to invite ourselves and I hope you guys are okay with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm trying to lose Justin on the way, but it could be that he just tags on. I don't know. I can never guarantee.
Speaker 3:If you come to visit. As of next year, it won't be Paradise Wildlife Park anymore. We're actually rebranding.
Speaker 1:Okay, then we're not coming. It'd be really hard to find.
Speaker 3:We're actually rebranding to Hertfordshire Zoo and we made this decision and it's a really interesting discussion to have within the zoo world because there's a lot of parks all around the world that try and shy away from the word zoo, and we worked with a really good marketing company that had worked with the likes of pepsi at cardo or a big shopping center in the uk or a food store in the uk uh, the nhs as well, and that's our national health service in the uk.
Speaker 3:For the listener yeah, there you go and um. We looked at every name possible, whether it was wildlife park, biopark, eco park, um conservation center and everyone said the same thing it all sounds lovely, but we don't know what it is, whereas people know what a zoo is and sometimes the easiest name is the best one to go with.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I think it also provides an opportunity. You know you've kind of addressed how, how it is, how you started and where you're going, but also what what a modern zoo is is it's not just a place that has animals that guests are able to come and see, but it has tentacles that move out beyond its own campus, that move into the rest of the world. And redefining what that word means for people is really important, because a modern zoo is more than just a place that has animals. It has a conservation, it has a mind to the future and that's not just what's happening on its own campus. And you kind of alluded to part of that earlier with you know you mentioned that you're one of the centers for species survival with the partnership with the UCN. Indianapolis Zoo has one as well. The Global Center for Species Survival is also one of those. So we really kind of want to talk about that a little bit how that first came about and what. What was the value that you, your family in the zoo, saw for that moving forward?
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure. So my mom went to a conference um that was held at the deep in the UK, which is a big aquarium, and they were the first ones to become part of the IUCN in terms of um, uh, center of species survival, survival. And when she heard about um, what they were looking for in terms of the red listing and the data uh, you know, uh collecting and things like that, she had an idea to firstly engage a lot of the small zoos in the UK that don't really have the biggest conservation projects, like they can maybe give like a 500 pounds there or 100 pounds there or even a thousand pounds at the most in some places, to different projects and um, the idea was to actually uh employ someone through several small zoos in the uk to represent them, uh, for the iecn um. And then when mum came back and kind of spoke to us and spoke to the trustees, we were like no, we'll just do it ourselves. That's cool. We're like we'll provide the office space, we'll pay for someone and we'll grow it from there and then we can find other ways to help some of the other parks as well, but let's try and crack it ourselves first.
Speaker 3:And that's when mum met an amazing woman called Andrea Dempsey who has been working for ZSL for a long time the Zoological Society of London but she also works for WAPCA, which is the West African Primate Action Group, and a number of other conservation organizations around the world. And she was looking for someone who, or looking for a place to basically set up an office so that she could do all of her work for WAPCA and the other conservation organizations. And mum said well, I'll tell you what. We'll give you the office. You can do all your work for them, but at the same time, come on board, we'll sponsor you, um, and you can do all the IUCN Red List work from there as well, and we'll also work with you to put together our conservation strategies for both parks. And that's how it got started and Andrew's amazing at it.
Speaker 3:And, yeah, not long after we became the center of species survival for the UK, mainly focusing to begin with on the native species in the UK. Because the UK is going through a real weird, almost like Renaissance when it comes to its native species, because it's great that everyone wants like a green movement, but there's still sometimes there's some species where people are like, oh, we're not quite sure if we want that back or this back and stuff like that. So we've been working really hard to try and establish good links between stuff that is already in the UK that is sadly on the decline at the moment but we can bring back up, but at the same time also looking at species that were once in the UK but were eliminated by humans that we're now trying to bring back. So, for example, they've just reintroduced European bison into the UK through Wildwoods, which is down in Kent as well another park down there. We've been doing a lot of work with um hedgehogs and setting up hedgehog re-release sites around our park and we've just set up a project where we've sent a swift box uh, swift nest box to every single school in in our county or state over here in the uk. Um, which is cut, which comes with like the heart for chisley branding and there's a qr code on each swift box so that the kids can hold it, hold up their phones and when they click the link it will teach them all about Swifts and all about the conservation work and why Swifts are important in the UK because their numbers have seen such a decline. So we've started doing some really cool projects like that, and then we're just looking at what we can do, moving forward in terms of what other species can we get involved in, in terms of not only housing at the zoo to raise awareness about them, but also what reintroductory programs we can be a part of, whether it's for small stuff, whether it's for big stuff, um, but also at the big cat sanctuary.
Speaker 3:What species we can reintroduce to england that were completely wiped out, which would most likely be the european wildcat, which for a long time was only known as the scottish wildcat, because it was the only place you could find them in the uk. But they've now gradually started being well. There's talk of them being released back into england. I think they've just done the first semi-release, um. And then I think the biggest predator we'll ever have back in the uk is is lynx at some point and there's a lot of talk about that people fantasize about wolves and bears and it would be an absolute dream, but sadly I just don't think it's going to be possible in the uk to ever get to something that big um. But yeah, we're now really starting to grow all that with with andrea and um, you know, being over here at the first kind of conference for central species survival is amazing to see and learn about what everyone else is doing and then from there we can reassess once again and then see what more we can do from there.
Speaker 1:This is probably where we have to quickly take a tiny little step back for the sake of our listeners and quickly talk about what Centers for Species Survival are, just as a little recap. So you said you're the Center for Species Survival UK. We're here based in the Global Center for Species Survival. So the Centers for Species Survival they're essentially a big network supporting the International Union for the Conservation of Nature, right their Species Survival Commission, so the experts that try to work and bring species back from the brink.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and what's so amazing about it is that it's not just zoos, it's also aquariums.
Speaker 1:involved conservation organizations involved as well Botanic gardens.
Speaker 3:So it's people from all different backgrounds that share that common goal of conservation and, um, you know to to bring people together from all around the world to try to do something like this. For me it really restores hope. I think one of the biggest problems with conservation over the last 30 years was that for so long the messaging was so negative, like, yeah, we know there are loads of threatened species, but I always say it's kind of like um, dragon's den Like, if you go onto dragon's den or shark tank over here in America and you say, right, I've got this.
Speaker 3:Uh, I've got this business. Um, it's in a really bad way. Uh, probably can't save it, but if you could invest loads of money I'll give it a go. Um, I don't really think the sharks are gonna turn around and say yes, and sometimes that's honestly how conservation has felt, because you just get to a point where you're like can we actually, are we actually going to make a positive impact? And what I think we're now starting to see around the world is where the messaging has changed a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, because I always remember one that stuck by me was back in 2010,. They were saying, right, there won't be any tigers left in the wild by 2020. Or even if it's a particular subspecies and, thankfully, all the subspecies that were still alive in 2010, there's now even more of them in the wild, and that shows that through the work that we can do as zoos, partnered with conservation organizations and governments around the world, we can save amazing species and help their numbers grow. And for me, tigers are always the best example of it, because they're the world's most popular animal, and if the world's most popular animal can't be saved, how does anything else stand a chance, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So, um, so, yeah, I think I think the conservation messaging that has been, uh, portrayed over the last few years, alongside the movements around climate change and other eco issues, has seen a real shift in what people's interests are, and people now want to see a more conservation-led world and a greener world, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And I think that really helps zoos connect to people that much easier. That really helped zoos connect to people that much easier. Um, and I think zoos are really starting to find their feet when it comes to messaging and social media, especially how to get the points across in a fun, positive way, whereas in the past it was, it was always a doomy, gloomy advert where you were just like, yeah, sure, we'll give the three, three, five dollars a month or something like that, or three quid a month, and hopefully that'll do do some change. But I think this is the real catalyst for change and and having species like center of species, um, survival centers all over the world, um, with, with people from all these different backgrounds, is, is, is hopefully the the light or the lighting of a match, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:This podcast is a production of the Global Center for Species Survival at the Indianapolis Zoo. We record all episodes in the Beadle Financial Media Studio, made possible by a generous gift from Eric and Elaine Beadle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that definitely makes sense, and I think you kind of touched on the ways that zoos can play a role in that, and I think one of the things that zoos have a really good benefit with that your average conservation organization doesn't is guests, right? Is the number of people that walk through the Indianapolis Zoo's doors every year is 1.2 million people, yeah, and so that's an opportunity to connect with each one of those about what the mission of this facility is, what the zoo does, who we're supporting, who we're connecting with, and I think that's a huge advantage that we have as a zoo that some organizations just don't necessarily do. And it's also the ability to connect people here, for in indiana, with species that are from around the world. You know, there's the ability to walk through this park and see things that are from asia, that are from africa, they're from australia and from parts of the united states that they may not necessarily see as well. So I think it has a huge advantage.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because that's the big thing that people forget. You know like we see it firsthand back at paradise, the amount of people that come to the zoo that have never seen a rabbit before, let alone a tiger. Because when you're in a big city, where do you get that opportunity?
Speaker 1:I mean, unless it's a fox in london then yeah, potentially I was gonna say there's rabbits everywhere in england, though isn't there, so that's really difficult to not see it's amazing, even in cities no no, exactly.
Speaker 3:but I think, um, I think, I think at times we can really underestimate just how little people see, yeah, when you're not in the profession, and also people don't realize the cost of actually going to see these animals out in the wild as well. You have to be incredibly privileged to be able to afford that.
Speaker 2:It's a limiting factor. It really is, it is.
Speaker 3:And then, on top of that, be insanely lucky to see the species you want to see in the wild as well. Yeah, um, you know. So I think that is the massive part that zoos play when it comes to creating those connections, and the science is there. People have more of a connection with a living thing, yeah, when they can physically see it, maybe touch it, maybe smell it. So you know, I mean, hear it, does that, track it, maybe smell it? So you know what I mean Hear it Does that track?
Speaker 2:even, you know, seeing it, seeing something live in person, versus seeing something on TV, and you have experience with both, right, so there's, there's a small show in the UK called one zoo three, and there's three brothers right, so what is? What is the avenue for, like you mentioned that you guys wanted to work together, and I'm assuming that's what this was leading towards. Um, but really, like, what is? What is the advantage of having a show like that? What? How does that? And change the way that paradise wildlife park is able to reach out into the? You know the worst phrase, the quote general public? Um, but because, no, you know it's an average. Um, but how does that change the landscape of being able to do some of this, messaging and connecting people with the passion that you clearly have for what you get to do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's been a it's been a game changer for us, which has been brilliant, and I think what's fantastic is the BBC have been so um, uh, accepting of the kind of messages that we want to put across as well, because we were very conscious of yeah, we want, we want to try and make a TV show, but we also want to make a TV show that is respected within the profession as well, and that's something that back in the UK we're really seeing. We've had different. We've had zookeepers and creators and zoo directors all watch their all watch the show with their kids and stuff like, like that, which for us is just as important as the general public watching, because if you have a tv show that you know the profession doesn't really like and doesn't want to get involved, in.
Speaker 2:My father was a firefighter and watching fire shows with him was just really him just ripping these things apart. He's like they wouldn't do that. He's like that building's too clear. It's like dad, it's for tv, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:So we're trying to make sure we have that fine line between what we do. But no, we wanted to show the world because obviously, as I said about the rebranding and stuff like that, the word zoo has been contentious for a while and we wanted to show the world. No, we know that there is sadly, a darker side to the profession, not just with zoos uh, zoos but also conservation and and the illegal wildlife trade and stuff like that. We understand there's that, Um, but we want to show the world what the absolute best zoos in the world are doing to make sure that threatened species are being preserved or areas around the world are being protected for these species to thrive. Uh, hopefully, once again, hopefully, once again. And, um, and it all starts at home and and that's the kind of messaging that we wanted to put across. So, yeah, we, we filmed the very first series.
Speaker 3:It was only five 15 minute episodes, um, during the very first covid lockdown, which was, uh, an experience, to say the least gives you something to do part of it at the time was also, you know, oh, this could be a really good way for the zoo to bounce back from covid and stuff like that and um and um. And then, yeah, I know where they were like. Oh yeah, it did really well. We're going to give you 26 episodes in the next series. And um it again.
Speaker 3:It showed what we do at the zoo.
Speaker 3:So it showed everything from like when we had cubs born and how we work with them, to um, general husbandry, to enrichment, and it's really important for us to explain the different kinds of enrichment that you can give to animals, what the purpose of those are.
Speaker 3:Different ways that you care for different species really portray the bonds that the keepers can build up with their animals as well. And then also we have different strands throughout the episode as well. So we'll have a conservation strand which will show the work we're doing, whether it's in Africarica or india, and it's not always animal related conservation. Some of it is human related conservation. So, for example, when we went to india, one of the really important uh conservation projects that we worked on was actually giving the rangers health checks, and we teamed up with an organization that um could give the rangers health checks, because where they're in the field for so long and they're literally living in the bush if they get an injury or they get anything like that, they may not ever get that treated. So, uh, that's really important because if you lose the rangers?
Speaker 3:you lose the rangers, you lose the management of those parks. So, um, you know, it's not all. It's not all animal related, it's human related as well. And then we also have another segment, calledangered, where we highlight some of the most endangered species at the zoo and the messaging that we get across is why that species is endangered, but also what we can do to now protect them and even if you're just a member of the public at home who's never worked with these animals before, how you can get involved to try and protect that animal or even raise awareness about that animal as well. But the way we're trying to now grow the show is to expand it into other zoos. So we've done a lot of Paradise and the Big Cat Sanctuary, and they will always be the two center parts of the show. But last year we went over and we filmed at Leipzig Zoo in Germany, which is an amazing place. Yeah, yeah, amazing place.
Speaker 1:I'm cheering for all the places in this podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then next month we're coming back over here to America to film at both the San Diego parks, and one of those episodes will be purely based on species that are only alive because of zoo breeding programs. Yeah, so from there we then hope to do more and more, and now we're just hoping the show will go international. We've heard, potentially the first country that's bought the rights to the show is China Interesting.
Speaker 3:Which if China's the first foreign country to buy from the UK. To buy the show is pretty amazing in terms of all the places for it to air. That's a pretty key one when you think of the issues going on when it comes to wildlife in that part of the world and also the audience you could build out there.
Speaker 1:I suppose we kind of have to wrap up very soon because we have to get back to our Centre for Species Survival meeting. But you mentioned that you wanted the TV show to also be kind of a show for people within your profession. It's kind of what we want this podcast to be as well. So if you have any tips for us of how we can make that happen, now is the time to tell us, please.
Speaker 3:From a professional to amateurs no, no well, firstly, I think you guys are doing a great job as it is, but I think um, I think, having you're a good guest.
Speaker 3:You can come back anytime, you want, uh, I think, the other thing for us as well. We don't shy away from any topics, so, like we're, we're happy to talk to people about um, about pretty much any aspect of the profession, um, whether it's good stuff, bad stuff. You know, sometimes have have those debates that need to be had, but I think as well, just yeah, having different people from all around the world to get their perspectives on on different elements of the professions, things going on within their countries, so that that way people here in the u S can learn about what's going on in other parts of the world, for example, um, and also sometimes just talking about species that people don't have a clue.
Speaker 2:So unsolicited advice on that freshwater mussels definitely worth it and we might even get you know, get money on top on that. Get on, get her on screen for freshwater mussels on screen.
Speaker 3:I've got a, I've got a face for a podcast and technically, a voice for I don't know silent movies from the 1920s not for singing in the rain, but um, but yeah, all that kind of stuff and, like I said, I think, just keeping people people love the idea of hope and stuff like that. So, even if there is something that is really bleak in terms of what is happening in the world right now, always giving that example of of what we can do to turn that situation around or or you know, um, yeah, just just situations like that. I think is is what's really key to to getting people to feel really engaged, because, like I said otherwise, I think people can just sometimes lose a bit of hope if they're like, oh, that species is, is on the on the brink of extinction.
Speaker 2:That call the action point is is really significant. It's something that, you know, we talk a lot about in conservation. Is this really sharing that story is important, but you want that behavior change and you want, you want an action out of it and it could be a small action, it could be a large action. You know, if you decided you want to sell off your you know entire holdings and your, you know, change your life and move somewhere else and dedicate it to something like that's an option. Yeah, not everyone wants to do that, but there are. You know, there's little steps that we can all take that will help change the picture as a whole yeah, exactly, you know everything can start at home.
Speaker 3:You know, and even just the little things, whether it's recycling, you know, eating certain food products, you know where we're talking about reducing meat consumption, for example. They're all little things that can still play a massive impact. You know we now look at away from animals and like out in the field, conservation. You know the change to, whether it's electric cars or other kind of ways the world are changing to become a bit greener or other kind of ways the world are changing to become a bit greener. You know that's also how people can play a part as well. That doesn't mean that they necessarily have to go and live in the middle of nowhere or take a trip to the middle of nowhere to help and get involved in conservation.
Speaker 1:Or just tell your family and friends what you just learned about conservation. That's also a big step, because that way we just spread the word and everybody cares a little bit more.
Speaker 3:Exactly, and hopefully they'll learn a lot through this podcast. Yeah, that's the hope?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and through your TV series, of course, hopefully Cool. Thank you so much, aaron. That's been really, really wonderful.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you know we we mentioned a couple of websites, a couple of resources, and we'll make sure that those are available to anyone that listens. But, yeah, we really do appreciate your time for the podcast as well, but also that we really appreciate the Paradise staffs here for this meeting, because it's been a really enjoyable experience thus far and we have a few more days of it to go, so it should be good times.
Speaker 1:And for any of our listeners, if you're in the UK, look up Paradise Wildlife Park or, from next year, hertfordshire Zoo.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much. And, yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity. Really appreciate it so much.
