Protect Species Podcast
This podcast is a production of the Global Center for Species Survival, which is a partnership between the Indianapolis Zoo and the International Union for Conservation of Nature Species Survival Commission (IUCN SSC). We record all episodes at the Indianapolis Zoo in the Bedel Financial Media Studio, made possible by a generous gift from Elaine and Eric Bedel.
Protect Species Podcast
Plants in Peril: The Unseen Battle Against Succulent Smuggling
Succulents probably aren't the first species to spring to mind when you hear the word "smuggling," but these are plants in peril. Join us as we sit down with Dr. Carly Cowell, a leading expert from the Succulent Plant Illegal Trade Task Force, for an eye-opening conversation about the vast and diverse world of succulents. From the resilient aloe and agave to rare, lesser-known species, Carly takes us through her journey from horticulture in South Africa to her crucial role in conservation policy at Botanic Gardens Conservation International in London. Discover the incredible adaptations that allow these plants to thrive in arid climates and learn about the vital ecological roles they play.
We unravel the complex web of threats facing succulent plants, focusing on the rampant illegal trade amplified by technology and the internet. Dr. Cowell provides a historical perspective on how cacti were listed under CITES in the 1970s and reveals the modern-day conservation challenges exacerbated by climate change. The discussion touches on innovative solutions like relocating plant populations and the unique seed dispersal mechanisms that succulents use to survive. This segment is not just informative but also a call to action for all plant enthusiasts to be mindful of the origins of their botanical treasures.
Links:
IUCN SSC Cactus and Succulent Plants Specialist Group
Botanic Gardens Conservation International
CITES
Dr. Carly Cowell
Today we're talking about succulents. Some of the species are well known and important to us. We treat sunburns with aloe, and we couldn't make a margarita or a paloma without agave. Today we're speaking with Dr Karli Kau from the Succulent Plant Illegal Trade Task Force. She'll talk about succulents, their threats and the conservation actions and activities aimed at conserving them. I'm Justin Berkow.
Speaker 2:And I'm Moni Boehm. Welcome to the Protect Species podcast, where we celebrate biodiversity and converse with conservationists. You ready, Moni?
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about succulents and cactuses today, or cacti Cacti.
Speaker 2:Cacti. Cactuses Are succulents and cactuses is there overlap? Are they the same?
Speaker 1:I think they're square and a rectangle.
Speaker 2:Is a cactus, a succulent, but a succulent not necessarily a cactus.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I think that's how it works.
Speaker 2:I think that's it.
Speaker 1:Do you have a favorite cactus?
Speaker 2:The ones that are on my shelf at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you hug them?
Speaker 2:I mean don't hug a cactus. I feel that should be a number one horticulture tip on the old little cactus.
Speaker 1:Don't hug them. Feels like a quick trip to urgent care. Don't sit on them, they'd be terrible.
Speaker 2:Are they not the ones that are called? I don't even know what they're called.
Speaker 1:The iconic ones that got their arms up.
Speaker 2:No, I mean the iconic ones that look like essentially like a pillow you could sit on, and they're called something like Barrel cactus.
Speaker 1:That's a type of cactus, it's not a specific species.
Speaker 2:Mother-in-law seating cushion. It was very rude for all the mother-in-laws, something like that. I like the saguaros, but maybe that's just in Germany that we call it, that we might not like our mothers-in-law.
Speaker 1:Feels very cultural, yeah, but we're going to talk to Carly Cowell. Dr Carly Cowell, today we're going to talk about succulents, some of the conservation, some of their threats, and it should be a lot of fun. So we're going to start this with the easy question that you always expect Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, what your current job is, and maybe a little bit about how you ended up there?
Speaker 3:Yes, good morning.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm currently the Director of Conservation Policy and Practice at Botanic Gardens Conservation International, based in London in the UK.
Speaker 3:But I didn't start out here. I started out doing horticulture in South Africa quite a few years ago, so I won't give you a figure there, but it started with just general horticulture and I already started seeing that plants just weren't surviving in the wild and it was great to see them in garden centers and in people's gardens. But I had to draw towards conservation and I started then working on restoration ecology when I did my master's, then working on restoration ecology when I did my master's and then working with exit to conservation outside of the botanic garden walls per se, in protected areas, looking at habitats and how to save species in the wild, and from there, of course, got drawn into a lot of work to fight plant poaching and animal poaching indeed, in South Africa at that stage in my career and working with the international conventions and conservationists globally, like the IUCN specialist groups, to stop plant poaching and try and prevent extinction of plants in the wild. Which brings me full circle, back to where I am today.
Speaker 1:And I chair the task force for succulent plants. That's fantastic. I mean, that is, like you said, a very full circle experience and journey and with many different pieces in it, which is, you know, it's phenomenal here we hear that a lot with our guests is that there's not necessarily a straight path to where people are. Straight paths are boring, it's true.
Speaker 2:It's only a straight path to where people are Straight paths are boring, it's true. I suppose many people like myself, when they hear the word succulent, they think cactuses. I also think some of the only plants that I can't physically kill as a very, very bad plant person, very bad plant. Mom, can you help us just better understand what this diverse group of plants is? Is it cactuses? Is it more than cactuses? Does it include more than some of the iconic cactuses that we see out in the wild or in on our shelves?
Speaker 3:well, I mean, indeed, I think you've you've hit the nail on the head with the fact that they are tough and very long-lived and succulents, by definition, are plant species that store water or have bulbous parts of them that store water, and they can then survive drought. So, yes, cactuses are certainly succulents and they are one of the biggest families in the group of succulents, but there are about 25 plant families that are defined succulents and then there's about 50 to 60 plant families with at least one succulent plant in it, because all families have to have someone that looks familiar to another family or something like that, and plants aren't any different, aren't any different. So, indeed, succulents are those fleshy, big watery plants that can survive.
Speaker 1:Us really forgetting to water them if they're a house plant. So, with that piece of natural history, where do we find them in the wild? Is there a particular type of ecosystem, and what kind of roles do they play in those ecosystems?
Speaker 3:Well, given the fact that they are retaining water to tolerate drought periods, you would expect to find them in the dry regions, the arid regions, out deserts, high mountainous areas, alpine areas, where you're not expecting to see a high rainfall, maybe some frost and cloud mist up there. But they do also occur in tropical areas. So they are globally spread, but the pockets where they are found the most in abundance is the arid areas. So in a lot of the desert areas, that's where you know, when you first say succulent or cacti, it comes to mind it's a desert, rocky environment, lots of sand and dust. To mind it's a desert, rocky environment, lots of sand and dust. And their role, because of their unique ability to survive in the drier periods, is to support the ecosystem for all the other species, be they plants or animals and insects, to provide a water source and a food source. Often they're protecting themselves, hence they have spikes and spines and they're not the nicest to handle without a thick pair of gloves, but indeed their role is providers and securing the longevity of the habitats.
Speaker 1:That makes sense.
Speaker 2:It does Wear gloves. That's what.
Speaker 1:I took away from this Also.
Speaker 2:I just remembered that just this weekend I repotted my three cacti cactuses. Cacti cactuses what's the plural? How do I speak properly? Difficult this morning, and I think they're happier for it, but my fingers weren't. Yeah, not at all.
Speaker 1:And so you know, with that we find this long history with people with cacti in particular, or succulents in general. We look at these communities of people that have histories in these drier places and that they provide a phenomenal food and water source and there's a lot of cultural components and margaritas.
Speaker 1:And margaritas. I don't know if that's as traditional. Margaritas and margaritas I don't know if that's as traditional. So we have this long human history in relationship with succulents and a lot of it was very much survival-based, but as time has changed, we find that a lot of it is the visual appeal of them. So lots of people have succulents in our home. Monty mentioned that she had a run-in with hers over the weekend. There's one sitting on my desk in the office because the peace lily it replaced did not like the office and this one is doing very well here. What do we need to know about caring for these species as we have them in human care, for lack of a better term.
Speaker 3:What are the things that people need to know about them? Well, I think you know. What you need to know about succulents is the habitats in which they would occur naturally are harsh. It doesn't necessarily need to be that they're in your home and you treat them harshly.
Speaker 2:But they don't need. It's very much what I seem to be doing with them, but okay, I'll better my ways.
Speaker 1:Ready for neglect is that?
Speaker 3:that's the plant yeah, there's a whole podcast on that. Yeah, a whole new podcast you could do on that one, um. But yeah, I think you know it's. Don't overwater them. Definitely don't do that, because they retain water themselves so they can take a bit of. Oh, I forgot to water my succulent. They do need fresh air and sunlight. Most living things do Not too much because they can burn, and particularly when you put them on a windowsill in the sunlight, the sunlight can be amplified and magnified and although they do occur in natural environment in sunny places, the sunlight isn't magnified through a glass window. So be careful they don't burn. And that's probably one of the main causes of the demise of house succulents is that they actually get too much sunshine and too much heat and they start burning and therefore they need shade if you're going to put them in your house in direct sunlight you also need a period of shade.
Speaker 2:It does not reasonable. It also suddenly makes me not seem like the worst cactus and succulent mom ever, because I'm not really harsh to them, I just forget. And they're definitely not in direct sunlight. So there you go.
Speaker 1:That's helpful.
Speaker 2:If your succulent burns, would you use aloe to treat? It Is the question that immediately popped into my head. Of course it is. Of course it is. That's probably also for yet another podcast.
Speaker 3:Yes, Indeed, I think the question is if your aloe burns, what do you use?
Speaker 2:Oh, that becomes weirdly circular, doesn't it? It's very meta. I don't know how to handle that. Can it self-heal, I mean? That's whoa what's happening. Where were we though? Good, excellent, so that's what we advise people to do at home with their succulents. What's happening to them in the wild, though? What are some of the threats that kind of probably come from their popularity as houseplants, but also various other threats, I suppose, out in the environment. What's the status?
Speaker 3:of succulents in the wild. I think, as with most plant species, they are under threat, and animal species, indeed all our wild habitats are. Climate change is that umbrella, that overarching and that is shifting, and even the succulents as well, adapted to harsh conditions and fairly tough environments as they are, are feeling the brunt of some climatic changes. So a big threat is that, for instance, I mentioned succulents that grow at high altitudes and may rely on cloud and mist rather than rainfall for their water source, and if those aren't happening, if there's no cloud and no mist, they can retain water to a certain point and then they're really going to need a top-up. If that's not there, then they will eventually go extinct. So you know, climate change is certainly a threat to those species that are perhaps living on the edge of their environment already at the extreme, and then land use change the extreme, and then land use change as things change and populations increase. People move out of cities or cities expand, depending on where you are in the world. We do tend to convert natural areas into areas that we need for industry, agriculture, urban housing, and this is now moving into areas where a lot of succulents occur and you know they're losing their habitat to make space for human expansion. I suppose we could put it down to so there's land degradation and habitat change, habitat loss, but still one of the main drivers of succulent plant extinction. Extinct in the wild, that's it, goodbye. It's not out there in its natural environment. It may be kept in captivity in a botanic garden somewhere or totally extinct, never to be seen again.
Speaker 3:Is the house plant the horticultural landscaping demand? Is the houseplant the horticultural landscaping demand? And that has always been one of the main threats to these species. Back in 1975, when countries were discussing the trade of different species and that something needs to be done to prevent extinction of species, the family of cacti were one of the main ones that was discussed and they were one of the first groups, the entire family, listed under CITES when CITES first formed in 1975 and then ratified in 76. So that's the Convention on Illegal Trade and that's one of the oldest conventions in the world. We talk about the Climate Convention and the Biod biodiversity convention, but the wildlife trafficking came first and, as I said, cacti as a massive group were one of those first that was listed. And that was trade, just horticultural trade, people loving them, wanting to see them, wanting to collect them, but just taking too many from the wild so they couldn't repopulate.
Speaker 2:And is that a global problem across all of these different regions where these plants occur, or is there particular hot spots where it's particularly prevalent?
Speaker 3:It's technology-related because back in the 70s when cacti were first listed and it was, you know, in the southern United States and Mexico and they were seeing these species being taken from the wild and none left and that was just very local and other succulents around the world weren't really affected. Very local and other succulents around the world weren't really affected. But with our increasing trade technology and particularly the internet, we're now seeing that pretty much any succulent anywhere, if there's a demand and a buyer and someone's got internet access, they can come under threat from over-harvesting and illegal trade.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean that makes sense. We talk about technology and we experience some technical difficulties, as we got it started this morning is that it's both this wonderful boom for us but also this huge hindrance, and being able to snap a picture anywhere in the world and send it out creates this wonderful connectivity, but ultimately it's also being used for this illegal trade that is impacting succulents and other species across all of the major taxon. I had one question. We're going to dive more into the trade, but, as you mentioned, climate change is one of these big impacting threats. Are we seeing migrations of these uh, these plants in, as the? You know, climatic habitats are changing. As you know, the, the uh, the heat regime and the rainfall regime are those impacting the where, where we're finding them? And are we seeing species start to move beyond what we refer to as their, like, their historical ranges?
Speaker 3:well, and like animals, I don't think plants can up their roots and walk across and sort of down again.
Speaker 2:I had this mental image and I tried not to laugh when you were like is the migraine. I was like the march of the succulents it feels like a fantasia film, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:but are we seeing the ranges change as the climate's changing around them?
Speaker 3:We are seeing distributions change in a shift, not so much that the succulents are popping up in places where we hadn't seen them before, because there's very little distribution for them to actually get there, but we are seeing that currently, where they are occurring, some populations are dying off for no other reason than they are being affected by climate change, and they are an example of the tree aloes, the quiver trees in South Africa and Namibia on the coast, and they are reducing. The seedlings are not germinating, many of the older adults are not producing seed. They're falling over from severe wind. They're not adapted to wind in that environment and they're just dying, so they're being constricted. Conservation is looking at. You know, do we shift? We know what they like, so do we go and plant them, the ones that are remaining? We cultivate them in botanic gardens and conservation institutions and we plant them back. We put seedlings in other areas. But are we then displacing someone else?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So there's an age-old question, and it's not only succulents, it's plants and animals, you know, and that's something we have to battle with. But we are seeing a change in ranges and distribution with climate change.
Speaker 2:Okay, here comes a really probably slightly silly follow-up question Are there any succulent species that have adaptations that might actually help them to march or migrate, or whichever way we want to look at it? I'm seriously now researching my march of these succulents cartoon series or whatever I want it to be. But are there any species that have adaptations that could help them in terms of how they disperse?
Speaker 3:I think many of them do, because a lot of their seed dispersal, a lot of some of the individual species, is through getting stuck in the fur of animals and and caught in your socks when you're going on a hike or a bit of a ramble or something. And that's not only succulents, there's grass species that are very irritating when they do that, but they have their purpose. So you know they are those mechanisms, whether the animals are moving in the right direction, that the plants need them to go to drop the seeds, that's another question that you know we need to look at. But they are adapted. Some are, some aren't. And you know there's that question of who's put their eggs in which basket for evolution, who's going to survive.
Speaker 3:It's just that the climate change is a slow burn for change for some of these species, whereas the trade go back to the trade can wipe out a species in one single poaching event, whereas climate change unless you had a severe storm and it was a very small population of plants, it's possibly not going to be doing that. Hurricanes do have that effect, not downplaying the severe storms that we can get. But you know, in South Africa there's nine species of conifitum succulents that have gone extinct in the wild since 2019 because of poaching, and in one day, one species just disappeared off the map. That was it.
Speaker 1:I mean, the scale of that's hard to wrap your mind around. It's absolutely, yeah, it's just incredible. This podcast is a production of the Global Center for Species Survival of Indianapolis Zoo. We record all the episodes in the Beetle Financial Media Studio, made possible by a generous gift from Eric and Elaine Beatle.
Speaker 2:So let's get back to illegal trade. So you, as you said, you lead the IUCN Species Survival Commission's Task Force for Succulent Plant Illegal Trade I hope I got the name right. Can you tell us a little bit about how this task force came about and what you're focusing on? I mean illegal trade, obviously, but what specifically you're doing as part of this task force? What are your activities?
Speaker 3:Yeah sure, part of this task force. What are your activities? Yeah, sure, so the task force came around, as most do, um through um, many of us being on the um, iucn, um, ssc groups. You know um being experts and I was part of the cacti and succulent expert group, as well as the trade, and you know the plant users group. There's many different groups and we're all talking to each other and we saw this spike in succulents being illegally traded, from cacti to conifitums. You know Mexico, south Africa, angola, all the way across to India. So we came together and we said South Africa, angola, all the way across to India. So we came together and we said you know, this actually really requires a task force to be formed with specific objectives to really highlight this need and galvanize action for conservation for this group of plant species before we lose more to extinction. So we formed this group.
Speaker 3:Our main objectives at this point, at this juncture in time, are to establish which species are being illegally traded and to identify the actors, not necessarily those who are illegally trading, but those experts who know these species and build a resource around that provide that resource and support to enforcement, because many enforcement agencies at our borders and our ports, airports, wherever aren't biologists. You might be lucky if you get one or two who studied biology or horticulture or botany, but generally they're going into that field for a different purpose. And now we're asking them to identify a cacti or cactus down to its species level, because is it critically endangered or isn't it, and is it one of the highly traded ones, and so providing this resource. So the task force is looking at who are the experts, how can we actually get guidelines and help train various enforcement agencies to identify this? Because a lot of succulent trade is slipping through the nets. A lot of the illegal trade is just, they just don't know what to look for. And many who do know what to look for see a succulent and think this could be an illegal trade is just, they just don't know what to look for. And many who do know what to look for see a succulent and think this could be an illegal trade. They need that backup from the experts. So part of the succulent task force is to do that.
Speaker 3:We're also looking, then, at the trade routes so then we can really hone in and identify who needs our help and where and where are those resources? Um, so, looking at supply chains and trade routes, um, and, as I mentioned earlier, you know we have seen that it's not just in mexico, um and arizona, for instance. Um, it's, it's now in chile and it's going across to to the east um, or it's in southern africa and it's it's going across to the east, or it's in southern Africa and it's going across into Europe. So it's global now and transport routes are easy Put on an airplane, put on a ship.
Speaker 3:We're looking at establishing these partnerships and getting people to talk to each other, because I may know an enforcement officer, another person on the task force may know an expert in conifitum identification. Let's put them together because they need each other. And then, you know, delivering communications on this and working with industry, because we still want people to have succulents in their house and appreciate them and love them and cherish them. And you know we need to then tell people that what you've got in your house is in nature. Let's keep those in nature thriving. You enjoy your one in the house and know you've got it legally. So, working with industry, who are also, you know, being vilified in many different ways, and it's not necessarily industry who are the people who are the perpetrators. So there's a whole gambit of objectives that we're doing in the task force, really focusing in on actions that can help save these species.
Speaker 2:From the tasks you described, I expect the task force to be about like 300 people strong, because that seems like a lot to do.
Speaker 1:Seems very overwhelming. I have a question. We talk about enforcement and identification specifically, and it goes back to we mentioned earlier technology. Is this most this, you know, this blessing and this curse in this space? Are we seeing technology being a blessing when it comes to enforcement through identification, through being able to map these routes? Are we developing tools that are improving the identification and the enforcement, or is that something that is not yet happening but is down the road?
Speaker 3:Yeah, justin, I think you're right, it's a double-edged sword. It's a blessing and a curse, but I think it's down the it's down the road for for developing the technologies and the identifications. There's numerous studies going on testing different ideas infrared identification, ai recognition. There's a lot more being done in the field for animals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's why I asked. I'm very familiar with those tools, with mammals.
Speaker 3:So I'm just curious, if it's happening and you know we're happy to ride on the coattails of those developments, because development, you know, research development very expensive and that's what we do we're talking to a lot of these groups and saying what did you learn? What was good, what was bad? And then thinking how can we apply this to plants and particularly succulent plants? So there's a lot going on and once again, it's global and it's fantastic to see the global conservation community working together, from DNA sequencing to isotopes, to infrared and AI recognitions. And yeah, there's quite a few bits and pieces on succulents. At the moment there's quite a few bits and pieces on succulents. At the moment there's nothing ready to be rolled out, but I'll be very excited with the day when that does happen.
Speaker 1:I mean, like you said, it's not quite there but it's moving in that direction and that's exciting to hear. There is such a great interface between technology and conservation and we're starting to see more and more innovation in that space and more and more people providing that development at cheaper and cheaper prices. And it also seems, at least with you know the animal world. A lot of these id programs are open source. So I think it's a it's exciting time to see how technology is changing, to embrace the hard questions that we haven't been able to answer in conservation yet, and you, I'm also excited to see where it goes.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%. And there's nothing wrong with riding on coattails, because you know if we just always have to reinvent the wheel that's not going to help us address any issues. So you know, this is always really good.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned, you know, the hobbyist portion of it is that we don't want to vilify the industry or the hobbyists themselves. What sort of personal responsibility for somebody who wants to have a succulent in their home, in their office? How do we make sure that we're not contributing to this illegal trade and how do we help move industry in a direction where that becomes less and less of a concern that?
Speaker 3:becomes less and less of a concern. I think a lot of people I mean we purchase online, you know, on the various platforms that are online and not so much going down anymore in person to a garden center and buying it, or maybe in your supermarket. And a lot of those that you buy physically in supermarkets and garden centers will have a label on saying where they're from. Often if it's a cactus species, they're all listed under CITES. You may, particularly here in the UK, see if they came across from Europe It'll say CITES species has, you know, got the right permits to actually cross an international border in the United States. It's not like that going between different states. You don't need that. It's on international border so you could grow in one state and buy in another state. But I think physically buying something from a nursery is a bit safer. There's still checks and balances that have been checked by industry and developed to do that Online. It's the Wild West at the moment. Anyone can take a photo, as you've said, pop it online, say this is for sale, I've got it here, it's growing in a pot in my garden and yeah, you could do it. And there's so many different platforms to do that on a formal one or just a group, a chat, a social media, and I think what people need to know is that they are empowered.
Speaker 3:You can ask questions. Where did you get that? How long have you had it? I see it's a cactus. Do you know it's a CITES species? Where are you? If you ship it to me? If you are on the other side of the world, it's going to go across international borders. Do you have paperwork? Is a CITES permit included in the cost, permit included in the cost? And just you know and this is something the task force wants to do as well and something that Botanic Gardens Conservation International. We also have a campaign that we're working on for illegal plant trade, which includes succulents, but we're talking all plants on. The campaign is just to let people know you can ask those questions. It's your money and you don't want to be part of something that leads to the extinction of a plant in the wild or any species. So just letting the society and people who do love plants know that you need to ask these questions. You need to think about it. If something's a bargain, there's not a free lunch.
Speaker 3:A bargain's never a bargain. You've really got to think about this. Why is it so cheap? Um, if it's being shipped from the other side of the world and it's a 300 year old succulent tree, um, it's not really a bargain. It's probably been, you know, illicitly harvested yeah, there's a cost somewhere absolutely there's a cost somewhere, um, and it doesn't come out of nature for free.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think, just empowering our society and the people who do love plants to know that they can be actors in this and buy responsibly Awesome. That's great advice. I think it's sound advice for any product. You know whether it's a live plant or if it's. You know you're buying a new table, right table? Where is the wood coming from? Those sorts of's based around its price and realizing that paying a premium price means that you're you have a better idea of where these are, these animals or these plants or these products are actually coming from 100.
Speaker 2:It's been done in I mean across the field, right, fisheries ask where your fish comes from, that you get in the supermarket, that seemed. I remember when that conversation came up in the. That was a big kind of shift in what was at least in terms of certification and all of these things, and labeling started to happen. It's that you just found out more information because people started asking these questions.
Speaker 1:I think we asked similar questions to guests about a variety of topics and really it comes down to being an informed consumer Seems to be the kind of. The common thread is make sure that you know what you're purchasing. Make sure that you're making decisions based on how that impacts not only yourself personally but these species long term.
Speaker 3:And you know, we're looking at all consumers even industry are buying maybe from someone else, or seed from someone, and encouraging them to ask those questions and ensure that what they're getting is correct, and promoting that. And then I mentioned the big platforms, that online you can sell things. We're working with them as well. It's got to come from all sectors, so if they're allowing people to post things that could possibly be illegal, it's not really the way we should be working as society. So, yeah, we're sitting down with them and talking to them and they're very receptive to it as well. So, you know, taking all aspects of this and highlighting to people that plants can be illegally traded, particularly succulents, and the ultimate is it goes extinct completely, and we don't want that. I've always said, you know, we don't know, maybe one plant could be the cure for cancer or some disease we don't have yet which I don't want to think about, but you don't know, or some disease we don't have yet which I don't want to think about, but you don't know.
Speaker 1:All the options are out there, so let's save all these species because we may need them in the future. So I think that brings us to a question that we, or a thought that we really like, is. A lot of our conversations talk about the hardships and the challenges within conservation. What makes you hopeful about succulents and the conservation of succulents moving?
Speaker 3:forward, I think, the response that we've had from the task force. We are only 25 members.
Speaker 2:Good, I was going to ask that we don't spread the rumor that it's 300 people strong, even though it sounds like that's what's required.
Speaker 3:It's so good.
Speaker 3:We needed to keep it small to be operational, and make those decisions and have, and because it's global, it's online meetings, but we have our networks and when we engaged with each of our individual networks on different aspects, depending on what we were bringing to the task force, there was just overwhelming support for it and enthusiasm. And even just you know, talking to industry, like I say, or internet platforms, everyone is enthusiastic and they're like yes, we can see the need for this. Tell us what you want. How do we help? Um, and I think that's that's what is motivating us and driving us is that we're not just being dismissed. Oh, you're talking about plant extinctions. They're not important. The plants have always been there and they're succulents, they're tough, they'll tough it out. Um, no people, people are engaging and they're taking this on board. Um, and that's that's really positive, because I do feel that we can make huge changes in a very short time and actually make sure that these plants are surviving and there's no more extinctions.
Speaker 2:Amazing. That does sound like a good platform to start off from. It's having hope and having a good network. That's always necessary. The other thing that's really necessary is have a little bit of passion for the species.
Speaker 1:What's your?
Speaker 2:favorite species. Can I end on passion for the species? What's your favorite species? Can I end on a really simple question what's your favorite species?
Speaker 1:It's a simple question, but it's such a hard one to answer.
Speaker 2:I know what succulent species would you like to give a shout out to.
Speaker 3:We often have this within our meetings.
Speaker 2:It's you know you put something up on screen.
Speaker 3:If you could be a species what would you be?
Speaker 2:Oh, I love those questions. I love those questions. I've got the answer, for if I was a vegetable but let's not even go there it would be an aubergine. Let's go back to succulents. Which succulent would you be and why? Which succulent?
Speaker 3:would you be and why? I think you know, being from South Africa, it's going to have to be a South African succulent.
Speaker 1:That feels appropriate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I do think the quiver tree, you know the aloe is probably, you know, my iconic succulent it's a tree. I like that you didn't use the succulent it's a tree.
Speaker 1:I like that you didn't use the word favorite. You used iconic instead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was nicely done.
Speaker 1:It's a great way to sidestep that I'm going to have to remember that one. Use that in the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 3:I've been hanging around politicians for too long.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's it, or good media training Be like. No, I don't want to talk about this. I'm going to talk about this instead, correct?
Speaker 2:Correct. No, that's an excellent choice. Love it yeah. I will now research for the rest of the day. Which succulent I would be, and why.
Speaker 1:I think that sounds great. Well, we really do appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us to answer some questions and appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us to answer some questions, and we definitely learned a lot about succulents and some of the big threats they're facing and ways that we can be an active participant in getting those threats Amazing. Thank you so much, carly.
Speaker 3:Thank you both. It's been great chatting with you and sharing all the knowledge and various stories. Yeah, have a great rest of the day.
Speaker 1:You as well.
Speaker 2:Don't forget to subscribe to the Protect Species podcast to ensure you're the first to know when new episodes are available, and please follow us on social media. We're on Facebook, instagram and X. Also, if you like what you hear, we'd love if you left us a review, which apparently makes us more popular. That's all I ever wanted and also, obviously, helps people find us.
