Special Guest

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M) talks with Mr. Brett “Hold Fast” Meyer, former D-II mid-distance track/field student-athlete at Fort Hays State University, KS. Currently, Brett is the Assistant Cross Country/Track and Field Coach (Middle Distance) at Fort Hays State University.

The Scott City, KS native (current population of 4,008) earns six All-American honors in the 800 and 1,500 meters, culminating in a D-II individual national title at 1,500 meters in 2019.

Brett reflects on his professional running, including making a run at the recent 2024 U.S. Olympic Trials. Interestingly, in 2021, Brett breaks Jim Ryun's 53-year-old Kansas indoor mile record at the Washburn Invitational in Topeka, running a time of 3:58.39.

Join Brett as he balances his introverted, quiet, and “I-will-not-miss-a-day” running work ethic self with ongoing and new responsibilities that include: his “Hold Fast Running Camp”; his wife Kelly, who beat him in a 7th-8th grade 4x200 race; his young buck son, Judah, and his Lord who is before all things and holds it all together.

Quips: 

“I wanted to quit cross-country every day.”

“Be a man and learn.”

“Hello Kelly.”

“Brett. You’re  being a bum. You just run.”

“Running is irrelevant. But priceless.”

Note: He does love Jimmy John's

Guest Contact:

World Athletics: https://worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/brett-meyer-14653170

Hold Fast Running Camp: https://walkrunrollscottcity.com/hold-fast-running-camp

Email: brettscmeyer@gmail.com

Instagram: brettmeyerr

Correction: D-II champion, not D-I, as referenced once along the way. 2019, not 2029, as referenced once.  Can't tell the future. Geeze, need some sleep...and food.

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Olympian Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M) talks with Olympian Mr. Tiidrek “Estonian Express” Nurme; man of faith, husband, father, and professional runner.

Tiidrek (tee-drek) takes his strong and focused work ethic on a multi-year running journey, setting many national records and representing Estonia with 3 Olympic appearances: Beijing (2008), Rio (2016), and Tokyo (2020).

Tiidrek is one of only five men in the history of the Olympic Games to have qualified for and competed in the 1,500 meters (2008) and the marathon (2016, 2020) in separate Olympics during their career.

Tiidrek resides in Estonia with his wife, Maili (the loveliest woman in the world) and his three children.

Join Tiidrek as he reflects on:

·         his early sport years in Estonia, 

·         his “costly, street tough, vulnerable” adolescent life, 

·         his journey to a highly decorated, public figure and finally on 

·         his God who helps frame it all and leads him to the finish line.

Quips:

“Straight into business.”
“How can start that slow?”
“Everything I speak I got to speak about God.”
“That was a hard start.”
“Looking for love and trust.”
“Everything that’s junk [food] is tasty.”
“I like in Kenya. It is my second home.”
“Life is more than….”

Guest Contact:

Website: https://tiidrek.ee/
World Athletics: https://worldathletics.org/athletes/estonia/tiidrek-nurme-14181111

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Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Mr. Micah “G2” Dettmer. Former D-I student-athlete (runner) at Texas A&M, husband, father of three, and collegiate discipler.

Micah resides in Fort Worth, TX with his wife Stephanie and three children. Through his current financial analyst position at CRU, Micah helps students experience local and overseas missions.

So, join Micah, a self-identifying “Goober”, as he reflects on his:

·         troublesome adolescent ideation phase,

·         loss of family,

·         early competitive sport years, 

·         infamous “Brick of Pasta” moment,
 
·         hypocritical college freshman year,

·         dating woes,

·         faith journey downs and life changing ups, 

·         redline running at Texas A&M, 

·         desire to equip and send college students on mission, 

·         mid-30s love of running, and finally, 

·         first encounter with his future wife that involved a “Scream” mask and French maid outfit (Goober 2.0 stuff).

Sticking the landing. In the end, Micah gives two pieces of sound advice for the current collegiate student-athlete. Here’s a hint: Zzzzzzz.

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Fresh Off the Collegiate Vine

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Mr. Troy “Kenny-G” Davidson, former D-II soccer, track and field student-athlete, forever WPD Beta group member, and 2024 graduate of Southwest Baptist in Missouri.

Troy reflects on his early sport and faith years, his decision to go one sport (track and field), his love of general biology (not), and the value he places in community.

Known for his…

•           “smooth and relaxed Kenny-G” demeanor on and off the track,

•           his outdoor 800-meter school record,

•           his proclivity to puke post-race,

•           AND his love for all things candy, which includes but not limited to: Dum Dums, Air Heads, Sour Patch Kids, Dots, Nerds, Skittles, Fat Boys (ice cream sandwich), Apple-spice Airwick Stickups, and possibly his favorite, Mike & Ike,

Troy takes his freshly minted college degree and toes the line for the start of his post-college life race.

*Kenny-G. American smooth jazz saxophonist, composer, and producer. 

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Olympian Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks Mr. Matt “Skymaster” Hemingway: Man of faith, business executive, husband, father, outdoorsman, coach, and Olympian.

A graduate of the University of Arkansas with 4 x All-American honors in the high jump, Mark takes his strong work ethic on a multi-year, bumpy journey towards a still standing US Indoor high jump record height and an Olympic silver medal in the 2004 Athens Olympics.

Matt resides in Evergreen, CO with his wife Kate and daughter, Asha. When Matt is not helping his sales team WIN in the office, he strategically guides puckering patrons through some of CO’s best river waters at Noah's Ark Whitewater Rafting in Buena Vista, Colo. Want to play some hoop? Pick Matt. He’s that 6’7 dude standing just off to the side. Word on the street is that Matt and his “older” teammates (the Roaches) still have skills!

Join Matt as he reflects on his early sport years, his time at powerhouse Arkansas, his irregular path to Olympic silver, and on a God who helps frame it all and leads him to the finish line.

Quips: 

“Looking back. You don’t have to get there overnight.”

“If it’s not motor, then it’s luggage.”

“It’s time to go to war.”

“Can’t live on the mountaintop. Growth is in the valley.”

‘Power of painter’s tape.” (visualization)

“Have gratitude.”

“When you can no longer do the sport, your response to that moment reveals your true identity.”

Guest Contact:

Website 
Email: matt@matthemingway.com
Instagram: Matt Hemingway
 X: @matthemingway
LinkedIn: Matt Hemingway OLY
World Athletics
Team USA
2004 Athens High Jump (6:35 into video)
Wikipedia
Noah's Ark Whitewater Rafting

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Special Geezer Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Mr. Todd “The Poet Runner” Sukany: Man of faith, runner, educator, author, musician, husband, father to three, grandfather to six, and my long-time friend.

Todd resides in the metropolis of Pleasant Hope, MO where he and his wife run an unofficial sanctuary for wayward dogs and uncooperative cats.

Known for his “poetic” prowess, sharp guitar licks, vintage and often stinky running apparel, and that stellar set of geezer man boobs, the Poet Runner ponders his faith and his next long trail run in Southwest MO. Finally, "PR" shares meaningful poems and reflects on how he hopes to finish his life race.

His Book: Frisco Trail and Tales. Self-published. Want a copy? Simply email him for details. Mention you heard him on the Press On Podcast.

Contact: tasukany@gmail.com 

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Smokin' Special Guest!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) continues conversation with Mr. Mark “The Captain” Curp, pride of Polo, MO; seven time NCAA D-II and 2 time D-I All-American in cross-country and track and field at Central Missouri State University (CMSU); professional New Balance sponsored runner for 15 years (1983-1997); former US 20K record holder (1986); former US half marathon record holder (1985-2007); US Olympic Trials participant (1984-1996), and former half-marathon world record holder (1985-1990).

Oh yeah, he is a husband, father, grandfather, and coach.

In part two, Mark reflects on his fifteen-year New Balance professional running career, dropping a Who’s Who list of 80’ and ‘90s runners. Marks recounts his various high profile road races, his Olympic Trials appearances, and the run up to his world record half-marathon. Oddly, he just wasn’t feeling it days before the event.

Finally, The Captain reflects on life after professional running, and life as a cancer survivor, giving us words of wisdom when the “race” gets seriously hard.

Mark currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri, area.  He and his wife, Teri, have five grown children (combined) and three grandsons. After professional running and after 21 years in the corporate world, Mark changes directions, hoping to make a positive impact in the world through coaching.

In his semi-retirement, Mark works as a paraprofessional and coach at a local high school. He also collaborates with individual athletes on a one-to-one basis. Currently, Mark presses forward in and through his second cancer occurrence.

More information at MarkCurp.com

Contact: mcruns77@gmail.com

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Special Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Mr. Mark “The Metronome” Misch, current Head Men’s Cross Country/Assistant Track & Field Coach at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs. The 2023-2024 academic calendar signifies Mark’s 17th season with the university.

While leading his team to multiple D-II national championship finishes AND mentoring and coaching several post-collegiate runners both nationally and internationally, Mark runs. And runs. And runs. Could say that Coach has the runs! No big deal, some will say.

But this year the “Metronome” completes a running milestone. What is it? Ready? Mark surpasses over 100,000 career running miles. Yep, 100,000!

That is… rough calculation… a bit over 4 times around the world. And he has the old-school documentation to prove it.

Starting with his early moments in Coffeyville, Kansas, to his collegiate sport days, to an almost career-ending traffic accident, and not to mention that “scolding” at France's Arc de Triomphe, the “Metronome” reflects on his faith, coaching, personal trials, professional relationships, world travel, and that long, long, long run-up to the 100K mark.

So, let’s get into the head and heart space of my guest and friend, Coach Mark Misch.

University of Colorado Colorado Springs - Mark Misch.

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Smokin' Special Guest!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Mr. Mark “The Captain” Curp, pride of Polo, MO; seven time NCAA D-II and 2 time D-I All-American in cross-country and track and field at Central Missouri State University (CMSU); professional New Balance sponsored runner for 15 years (1983-1997); former US 20K record holder (1986); former US half marathon record holder (1985-2007); US Olympic Trials participant (1984-1996), and former half-marathon world record holder (1985-1990).

In part one, Mark reflects on his early days learning the value of hard work on his family’s Missouri farm and discovering in high school that he can…well…run.

Mark secures a $100 athletic scholarship at CMSU, stuffs his 5”3 105-pound body into his 1966 Ford Mustang, and heads to college. Mark reflects on his student-athlete collegiate years (athletic, academic, social, spiritual). He finds his stride after a slow start, embraces academics, keeps his nose clean, and becomes a multi-year All-American, positioning himself, somewhat unknowingly, for an interim 15-year career as a New Balance sponsored professional runner. Shhh...he throws down a world record in the half-marathon that lasts five years (1985-1990). Polo, MO proud!

Mark currently resides in the Kansas City, Missouri, area.  He and his wife, Teri, have five grown children (combined) and three grandsons. After professional running and after 21 years in the corporate world, Mark changes directions, hoping to make a positive impact in the world through coaching.  More information at MarkCurp.com.

In his semi-retirement, Mark works as a paraprofessional and coach at a local high school.  He also works with individual athletes on a one-to-one basis. Currently, Mark faithfully presses onward and through his second cancer occurrence.

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Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Mr. Sam “Nord” Nofziger, former D-II cross-country and track and field athlete and 2020 graduate of the University of Colorado Colorado Springs.

Sam yearns for the day when he can leverage his Minnesotan-honed snow skiing skills somewhere in Texas. While he waits for that notable day, Sam redeems his space as a mechanical engineer at a Fort Worth, TX government contractor.

“Nord” reflects on his early running days in cold Minnesota and how he falls in love with Colorado while a student-athlete. Sam introduces “Harambe” and what it means for a team in need of a spirit and purpose injection. Sam encourages athletes to be solutions to problems. Step up.

Post college life is dicey. Sam reflects on life after college when the schedules are free and one’s identity gets put on a clothesline for inspection. So much change.

Most importantly, Sam offers his best advice whether in or out of college. Surrender. Don’t fight the Spirit. Trust God for your yesterday, today,  and tomorrow. Game changer for Nord! How about you?

Finally, Sam and Dr. M. talk shoes and answer the question: Which is the worst (and best) sandwich shop pre or post event?

* Nord = Nickname for the man from Minnesota . Noun. North [noun] the direction to the left of a person facing the rising sun, or any part of the earth lying in that direction. North [noun] (also N) one of the four main points of the compass. Borrowed from French nord, from Old French norht, north, nort (“north”), from Old English norþ (“north”), from Proto-Germanic *nurþrą (“north”)…WHEW!

** Harambe. The word means “all pull together” in Kiswahili, Kenya's national language. It is the nation's official motto; it appears on the country's coat of arms; and it encompasses a concept of placing the group before the individual.

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Special Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Mr. Brett “The Hammer” Bundy former D-II cross-country and track and field athlete, former 15-year Christian missionary to Haiti, husband, father, and skilled tradesman.

Brett reflects on his early athletic days in Illinois and on a high school bus ride that changes his life. He shares how he builds great friendships and sees some running success amid a lean collegiate coaching system.

The “Hammer” reflects on a 15-year borderline workaholic service run in Haiti – a place known for its beautiful beaches, friendly people, cold bottles of Coke, abject poverty, darkness, and dinner plate size spiders. Over time, Brett learns to toggle between love and leadership, making the hard calls  but always putting people, including his family, first and tasks second. 

"If it makes you happy...."

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Special Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Jeffery “Aloysius”* Jump“ former D-II cross-country and track and field athlete, ultra-distance runner, Ironman finisher, cattleman, father, and a long-time friend.

From small town Missouri, Jeff walks-on as a student-athlete at Southwest Baptist University – a D-II school in MO.  Upon graduation excitement begins. Jeff embraces the more endurance side of running.

Known for his “warrior” mindset, many tattoos, and multiple cattle-kicks to the head, Jeff completes a full Ironman triathlon, a 100-mile race, and more impressive, raises his daughter, Julia.

Jeff reflects on his collegiate days, including meeting legendary Arkansas Coach John McDonald. He promotes the value of pizza, oranges, pickles, and “flat Coke” in any 100-miler.

Finally, Aloysius shares meaningful scripture from Mark – the Transfiguration – and focuses our attention on who is most important.

 *Aloysius is a traditional yet underused name meaning “famous warrior.” German and Latin origins.

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mc:  Studio Kolomna. Aggressive Sports Trailer. (Free) Music by Denis Maksimov from Pixabay.

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Special Veteran Spotlight!  Merry Christmas!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Natalie “Nat” Goatley (formerly  O’Keefe), newly married, talented artist, former D-II basketball player, and 2 x D-II National Champion in the high jump.

Nat reflects on her early athletic endeavors, personal faith and vividly recalls her father being thrown out of her high school basketball game. Vocal and spirited chap that Mr. O’Keefe!

Natalie recalls the difficulty playing two sports at a high level. Cooperative and talented coaches make this possible. Personal discipline, solid coaching, and faith (and a few pixy stixs) guide her to two D-II national championships in the high jump.

After an introduction to “Banana Split,” Nat ends with a great faith and sport analogy.

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mc: Rock N Christmas, Grand Project

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Special Reflection

Our neighbor of 25+ years passed. 

I am sad as there is loss. Sadness reveals that which is meaningful to me. Sadness shows I need comfort.  Sadness becomes a gift to me as I the reality of the moment. This is healthy. Ponder this.

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Special Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Dylan “$12” Barnum, former DII second team All-American and MIAA conference champion in 110-meter-high hurdles. Dylan is a husband, father of two children, and middle school teacher and coach.

Dylan reflects on his early athletic endeavors, personal faith and humbly recalls the challenge of collegiate practices that pushed the MO state champion in the 110- and 300-meter-high hurdles.

First two years...cool! In his junior year, Dylan questions most everything in his life with a “cocky” attitude. Not unusual for many college students, but he admits to less interest in others during this time.

Getting to the end of himself, $12 humbles himself before the source of his faith.  Grace and mercy emerge, along with a clearer sense of purpose.

And somewhere along this timeline the "white shorts controversy “ surfaces, causing a few questions from other student-athletes. No problem. Coach approves. Dylan produces on the track no matter the color.

Dylan reflects on three post-collegiate  seasons of vocational tension that messed with him. How did he settle down? What was the key?

Finally, Dylan reflects on what he wishes he knew then (college) that he knows now. More presence with those around him. Even during the identity and vocational fine tuning, Dylan suggests we all be more present in lives that matter most. 

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Special Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Elizabeth (Beth) McDaniel (Luckell), former DII All-American cross-country and track and field student-athlete. Beth is a wife, mother of two and member of the workforce. New identity markers for sure.

Beth reflects on her early athletic endeavors and her sudden attraction to running thanks, in part, to a less than stellar moment at marching band practice. After a rather “cocky” arrival to college, Beth recalls the first workouts that change her attitude.

A love for travel and missions makes a call during the college years. Beth reflects on one adventure where she and another friend travel the back roads of Ethiopia in search of…well...something. The kind of trip that Beth says she will never allow her daughter to make…RIGHT!

Finally, Beth reflects on motherhood and career, and the discipline it still takes to show up holistically to all these post-college “adult” identity roles – discipline she learns from both her growing faith and her continual love of sport.

*Listen for the abrupt and delightful presence of Master Theodore who simply wants some mic-time.

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Special Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) concludes time with Dewayne “Bushman” Miner, former DI and DII All-American cross-country and track student-athlete. Veteran high-caliber runner. Educator. Outdoorsman (CO). Coach. Father. Husband.

Dewayne reflects on his post-college pursuits. He explores what it feels like to be a fish out-of-water after college. Bit of confusion. The Bushman suggests that it may just take time for “things” to come together in life. Dewayne candidly reflects on an inauspicious 1st marriage and remarriage and some lessons learned as both father and husband in a blended family.

Finally, the Bushman endorses the merits of both educator and coach to reach the next generation. Oh, and about that black diamond. Check in and listen!

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Sports Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Dewayne “Bushman” Miner, former DI and DII cross-country and track student-athlete. 4 x All-American. 5 NCAA rings. Part of University of Arkansas 1993 triple crown national championships (cross-country, indoor and outdoor track. Dewayne shares stories from this high octane period.

Bushman remains a high-caliber runner while engaging roles as educator, outdoorsman (CO), coach, devoted father and husband, and conspicuous Taco Bell connoisseur.

Dewayne reflects on his early running days, notes his sad departure from his hometown into his “meat grinding” tenure at DI University of Arkansas, and ponders his life-changing transfer to a smaller DII school.

Want practical running advice?  Like, what are the best leaves with which to wipe after a mid-run dump? Get your answer here! 

Finally, Dewayne shares what he wishes he knew then that he knows now. Listen and let him give context to this episode’s title.

Dr. M. and Bushman thank our UNOFFICIAL sponsor – Taco Bell – for years of access to wonderful, affordable, high-fat, and gaseous cuisine.  Certainly, the Thinking Man’s fast food. 

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Special Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with TJ “Calamine the Adventurer” Sanderson, former DII cross-country and All-American track and field student-athlete. Veteran high-caliber runner. Christian missionary. Educator. Outdoorsman. Coach. Husband. Father to SIX boys. 

TJ reflects on his student-athlete days, his athletic adventures off the track (dare ya to listen), and his family’s efforts in central Mexico.

Calamine's advice to himself and the young: "choose battles carefully and don't make mountains out of mole hills."

TJ and Dr. M. collaborate on this question: “From which side of your butt do you work?” 

Confused? Listen for context. Enlighten yourself.

Finally, TJ shares what is most important to him.

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Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with former D-II student-athlete, now corporate man, Jeremy “Spidey” Inman and retired “King of College Intramurals,” pastor Danny “Old Man River” Dyer.

Young Jeremy reflects on his “weird stirrings” emerging from a  recent and lengthy binge on Harry Potter movies.

With years of ministry experience and a good eye for what makes movies and stories transformative, elder Danny (40ish) challenges us to think deeply about our lives.

Why and how do good movies and stories move us? Is there a calling for us beyond the corporate cubical? Who is ordering our steps? Are we responsible for our talents?

Meanwhile, the elder Dr. M. manages the interplay between the generations.

Dr. M's grey matter errantly attributes the partial quote “Earn all you can. Save all you can. Give all you can.” to Jonathon Edwards. The CORRECT attribution is to John Wesley. 

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Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Austin “Tribune” Acosta, former DII student-athlete and current 1st Lieutenant United States Marine Corps (Baker Company - call sign “Ridge Runner”). Austin gives a special shout-out to family and friends. Tribune reflects on his early track & field career, snookering the coach, leadership roles, and why he chose the military.

Tribune encourages a calm yet intentional confidence that permits both the small and hard conversations in life.

Austin takes us into Marines OCS and TBS but goes silent about IOC, invoking “Exo Tes Thyras Ouden” which means “Out These Doors Nothing” or simply, “Don’t Ask Cause We Ain’t Goin’ to Tell.” Austin does say that IOC was the “most fun I never want to have again.”

Tribunes reflects on his most recent deployment to Japan - “moshi moshi, or もしもし!

Austin concludes with a bit of advice to the collegiate student-athlete and perhaps to us all.

Oorah!

Episode Note: In the episode, Tribune references a Marine term. He states, “safety designed zone.” While grilling (where clarity is only one flipped patty away), he enlightens to the correct term, “Surface Danger Zone.” He wants you to know this.

I want a detailed Lt. like this leading!

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Sports Veteran Spotlight! 

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) concludes his talk with veteran athlete and coach Mark “Stenny” Stenbeck. Runner. Coach. Mental health worker. Aspiring author. In this episode, Mark reflects on mental health challenges common within the student-athlete ranks and on what a coach can do to mitigate issues.

Mark candidly reflects on his context-driven mental health challenges amid a winning coaching season and on the "saving" value of his close community amid several critical life changes.

Season 1 Episodes 18 and 19 set the stage, in part, for this episode.

Article Referenced in Episode: Rod Baumeister, “Suicide as Escape from the Self,” Psychological Review, 1990. 

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Sports Veteran Spotlight!

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) resumes talk with veteran athlete and coach Mark “Stenny” Stenbeck. Runner. Coach. Mental health worker. Aspiring author. In this episode, Mark reflects on his 17 years coaching high school runners. Marks hits on the value of tactical empathy (#1 secret sauce),  team camps (more secret sauce),  emotional intelligence, leadership, and listening and guiding skills.

If you think Stenny's coaching approach sounds a bit too effective, well, tell that to the folk who awarded him the 2018 USTFCCCA XC High School National Coach of the Year. 

Coach Stenbeck shares some healthy advice for aspiring high school and college coaches.

Reads Referenced in Episode: Dr. JoAnn Jung, Call to Follow. Jim Collins, Good to Great. 

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Sports Veteran Spotlight! 

Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with veteran athlete and coach Mark “Stenny” Stenbeck. Runner. Coach. Mental health worker. Aspiring author. Mountain Man Mark reflects on his lower elevation collegiate running days and shares what he knows NOW that he wishes he knew THEN (his answer will surprise you…did Dr. M.)

Mark maps his post collegiate pursuit of the U.S. Olympic Trials via a near Nor'easter Boston Marathon qualifier, and concludes with candid thoughts about the injury that took down his running career (stupid treadmill).

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 Dr. Scott McNeal (Dr. M.) talks with Daniel “G-Man” Garrison, current DII student-athlete with a major in electrical engineering. Daniel gives a special shout-out to family, friends, and a few Weenies. Daniel reflects on his running career, transition to engineering school, professional internship, faith, leadership, and the power of “Honey Bunches of Oats.” Daniel concludes with perspectives on taking the POSITIVE from whatever we encounter and understanding that there is more to the moment than “grinding.”

The text referenced in the episode is The Call to Follow by Dr. Joanne Jung and Dr. Richard Langer.

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