The Root of The Matter

Holistic Dentistry and Beyond: The Role of Muscle Testing

• Dr. Rachaele Carver, D.M.D. Board-Certified, Biologic, Naturopathic Dentist • Season 1 • Episode 12

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Ever wondered how muscle testing could be the key to unlocking a more comprehensive picture of your health?

Join Dr. Rachaele Carver, and holistic health practitioner Nichi Kuechle, as we unveil the mysteries of muscle testing in a holistic health context. Nikki will share her journey into holistic health and how muscle testing has become a significant part of her practice that goes beyond understanding biochemistry alone but focuses on tapping into our bodies energy systems.

This episode is packed with insights into how muscle testing can serve as an empowering tool, particularly for mothers. It's about time we validate a mom's intuition and use it to deepen the understanding of a patient's condition!

Learn how muscle testing can bring together different health practitioners, including nurses and doctors, to provide a more comprehensive approach to health. We'll also delve into the practice of muscle testing in holistic dentistry and its importance in creating the perfect mix for a composite filling.

Finally, we take an in-depth look at the power of energetics in self-healing and the tooth-organ connections. Uncover how listening to our nervous system and reducing the 'have-to's' in our lives can lead us to the root of our health issues and steer us towards wellness.

This episode is a knowledge trove that will change how you perceive holistic health and wellness.

Tune in, and let's unravel the mysteries of muscle testing!

Contact Nichi Hirsch Keuchle on Instagram @nicholehirschkuechle or check out her website: www.myhealthybeginning.com

To learn more about holistic dentistry, check out Dr. Carver's patient education page:

http://carverfamilydentistry.com


To contact Dr. Carver directly, email her at drcarver@carverfamilydentistry.com

Want to talk with someone at Dr. Carver's office?  Call her practice: 413-663-7372




Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. Before using any products mentioned or attempting methods discussed, please speak with a licensed healthcare provider. This podcast disclaims responsibility from any possible adverse reactions associated with products or methods discussed. Opinions from guests are their own, and this podcast does not condone or endorse opinions made by guests. We do not provide guarantees about the guests' qualifications or credibility. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Dr. Carver:

Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Root of the Matter with me, your host, dr Rachel Carver, where we discuss and highlight the connection between oral disease and systemic disease. I'm very excited today to have Nikki Kikle with us. She is a holistic health practitioner and founder of the method of intentional inquiry. Today, nikki and I are gonna talk a little bit about muscle testing. Those of you have been listening. I've mentioned it. If you've a patient of mine, you've probably had me do some muscle testing with you. So I really want to talk a little bit about what this kind of method is and why it's really important.

Dr. Carver:

Today we live in a world where we have a lot of tests and so often we have patients who come in and say I had this test and that test and this test and everything says I'm fine, but we don't feel fine, and so is there a better way that we can really kind of tap into what's happening in the body?

Dr. Carver:

So muscle testing is also called muscle kinesiology. It's been around for hundreds of years and it's a way we tap into the energy system. So our body is made of energy, the whole world is energy, and when we can understand and we often think the way we're taught in school is all through biochemistry, we've got this nutrient and it hooks into this specific receptor and I think in reality our bodies are much more complex than that and through a lot of study through quantum physics, now that is really being widely accepted. We know that the bioenergetics really underlie the biochemistry, and if the bio energetics aren't flowing properly, then the biochemistry doesn't work. So, nikki, why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got into holistic health in the first place?

Nichi :

That was like 28 years ago. Actually, I really started to lean into I guess you could say holistic health because my mom got sick when I was in high school. I was 16, she was 36, she was diagnosed with Hodgkin's disease and I mean, you know, I remember thinking for two years I thought my mom was gonna die, and it's interesting when we talk about it now. She was like I was in remission in like within four months or six months or something like that. But for the teenager, for the oldest child of the household, for the kind of side effects, just like the other things that came up and the emotional impacts that carried on for a long time with me, and within six months of her being sick, I was sick and I look back on that now I realize I was. I was really sick my whole childhood, but this was really kind of the the straw that broke the camel's back. I ended up with an ulcer and subacute chronic appendicitis and I mean, if that's a thing for a year and a half and and it was just one thing then led to another and thankfully we were already under chiropractic care as a family. So I'm so grateful for that. But by the time I was 18, I was starting to vet out like my own practitioners, my own people, the people that I felt a connection with, and then just foot the bill because I was seeking these things out on my own and was pulled like there was a definite calling and a definite pull and a sense of how I'm thinking, being understood, definitely being listened to. I think I'm being understood right. So we had I mean we had an acupuncturist for gosh. I mean I would say 15 or 16 years I saw the same acupuncturist before she moved on and did other things and she was like my lifeline, she was my, my answer, my connection to so many things. But but when I was 20 I was in school to get my degree and but I was also just bored as can be, and so I became a body worker, neuromuscular therapist and craniosacral therapist and very quickly added that's where I started my birth. Doula training and all of that birthwork I did for 20 years really started right there, but so did muscle testing. So it was like a quick little four-credit class I got to take inside of this body work course and when I think back about how I used muscle testing it was like talked about it very little, used it sometimes in body work sessions, but it definitely wasn't empowered and didn't have another way to think with it outside of what area needs to be worked on.

Nichi :

As I'm approaching this body today and wasn't like, maybe like 2009, 2010, that I pursued further training in muscle testing and I've been doing it full-time ever since, and what I love about muscle testing is just the non-invasive side of it and, to your point, we can go get test after test after test after test, that whatever, like a month ago, the labs. The provider was like, yes, you definitely have chronic Lyman mold, and I was like I thank you. I know this because it's been showing up on muscle testing. So there is a there's a little bit of okay, that feels good, that I know I'm on the right track, that we've got, as Dr Todd Watts will say, right, like the science to back up the art, which is so beautiful, but it isn't the full picture either, and so muscle testing can really get at the energetics of what's going on.

Nichi :

Right, there are, there are layers, there are like the ideal with the what I call the emotional and energetically, or with the method of intentional inquiry. So there's, there is what's going on. There are the external stressors or the internal stressors, the toxins, the pathogens, whatever the case may be. Then there's the emotional side, then there's the energetic side and then they're like what are just these outer layers, that sort of touch, touch on it, and I described that. You know, when you have a fly land on your hair, in the back and you're like feels like a hand on the back of your head, you're like I can see there's something there, I can feel it. That's what I kind of described, that that outer layer of energy.

Nichi :

And and when we can tap into what that is, I would say almost every time the person I'm working with is, yes, that right, they're just like oh my gosh, how come nobody's ever said this before or brought this up or asked me that question? So there's much to be learned about our body, mind and spirit. From a muscle testing perspective, hand muscle testing can be done. I think this varies state by state, certainly, but you know a massage therapist, an OT, an MD, an RN, a personal trainer, as a birth doula, I was able to do it in a body worker because I was able to touch bodies. That's what gave me license, if you will, to do this work in the state of Minnesota and I'm so grateful for where that's taken me and the depth and the breadth of understanding that I have around a person's health at any given time.

Dr. Carver:

And I think for you, you work with a lot of little COs, which are so cute, which young children, babies, they can't talk, they can't express how they're feeling, right? Even those who are verbal, often they'll have a tantrum or whatever because they can't exactly tell you. So that's the beauty of muscle testing is you can tap into that energetic field and it can be so helpful, right For new moms.

Dr. Carver:

I mean, we were just in Boston together, Nikki taught a great muscle testing course that I went to and we had a mom with her young baby.

Nichi :

I forgot about that already. Oh my gosh.

Dr. Carver:

Yeah, I mean obviously the baby couldn't talk, but you know, nikki was able to just tap into the bottom and then through the mother, through her breast milk, she can give her a certain supplementation or whatever is necessary. So super, super important those, especially those last first moms and the baby's colicky and we don't know what's wrong and we go to the pediatrician and they just want to drug them to death, right.

Dr. Carver:

Giving them acid reflux medicine at six months Yikes, not the right way to treat the end. And not to mention the poor the child, as Nikki was mentioning the emotional impact of not feeling well, my oldest daughter, she I kind of forced the issue. I had her induced and they had to suction cup her out and that definitely caused some trauma to her. She sucked her thumb till she was eight years old and now learning pretty. Something like that is a soothing mechanism, right, is has having that thumb in the mouth.

Dr. Carver:

And had I known back then I would have taken her to craniosacral therapy, right, and I was like her teeth aren't so bad, so I wasn't so worried about it and I'm like, oh, but you know, all the brain, the skull and everything as that's being sucked out and pulled and all that kind of things really. And she's more of an anxious kid, right, she's got more nervous system issues. And had I known when she was first born and had the physical and emotional kind of taking care of that and who knows, who's to say it could be her personality. I wish I had known back then to take her to those and she was her babysitter. I said she was so fussy I don't really remember that. But you know, maybe her nervous system was always jacked up from birth, right and so without having that calming.

Dr. Carver:

So again, the value for the little ones being able to muscle test. So when somebody comes to you, can you? Maybe for those of you who aren't really familiar, what exactly is muscle testing? But if some brand new person comes to you, so please help with something. What's the process?

Nichi :

I just the simple explanation I give them is that muscle testing is a noninvasive way of analyzing not only the physical body, so glands and organs that may need support in some way, but why why the body's feeling tired or taxed, or enter in your list of complaints, concerns or symptoms and allows us to get really to the root cause. So you can do muscle testing in person, in which case I would give them a quick example of we would use the arm as a reflex and apply a little pressure and probably have them hold vials or something in their hands so we can have them see what's called a lock muscle is and then what it is when that muscle unlocks. But it's also just energetic. So it is something that can be done by distance and for me, one of the ways that I'm able to back that up is there are a couple of different trainings that I've done along the way in my career where muscle testing is taught to be used virtually. That's the method. So it isn't just, you're not just stuck in a container of. I can only do this inside of an in-person practice, which just blows the top off, the possibility for who you can reach.

Nichi :

Case in point yesterday I ended up with what we call like an expedited initial visit report of findings. At the end of the day, we had this completely stressed out mom with this nine week old baby who was told that her breast milk was making her baby sick Not from a fear standpoint, but from a. This baby had this terrible diaper rash, broken raw skin, and she'd been going to the pediatrician and they were giving her, she said, one cream after another and they just kept getting stronger and nothing was touching this rash and she said it just so happened. I was at my I don't know what it was, maybe eight week postpartum follow up visit with my OB who said you might want to try go seeing this person for this thing called muscle testing, and so that's always really exciting to hear, right, and you just get more and more attention out there in the world of Western medicine. And there she is, sitting across from zoom. She has no idea what I'm about to do. She has, but she was like it just feels right. I have no idea what you're going to say, what you're going to do, but but I trust my OB and she told me this is where I need to be and she had done some things like she had taken dairy out for a couple of weeks and then she was like it just didn't make a difference.

Nichi :

I brought it back in Now, story short, to be able to validate her mama intuition, because both lactose and casein were a problem, that they were like. They're low enough to where it might not be noticeable. But also this fat metabolism issue was coming up with this baby high glyphosate not a surprise, right? So like the stomach, there were some Cestodes, like some tapeworm activity, and so she was just like completely floored and she said you know what, when I was pregnant, I told my husband we are not going to have the lawn company come this summer. I have a brand new baby. Something told me that we didn't need to have our yard sprayed, and it's. And here it is anyway when her body is the problem.

Nichi :

So I love being able to get over there in the world of mom or practitioner that I'm working with to validate their experience, because you're over here swimming inside of this mounting and building story of concerns and symptoms that are not being handled. They're being tended to, but maybe nothing is happening to the degree in which you feel relief, right, or alleviation. So muscle testing can really provide that, and so some of that is a bit of a faith walk for people. I just have to say it's actually better for me if people have never experienced it, because then they just have. They don't even know about it, they just have zero expectation and I just get to be me and they just get to be them and I get to meet them right where they're at. It can be tricky when you've had someone with muscle testing experience, particularly if you're on the virtual side and they've only had it in person because they only know one thing and that takes a fair amount of education. But once people get it and once they feel it like, they feel the difference, they see the difference in their life or in their children. They're just like they're in and they totally get it.

Nichi :

And in a lot of cases you were kind of integrating. We're working with a nurse practitioner or a PA or an MD or whatever to kind of collaborate on their care, which is also really fascinating because I then can test for things that are not in my wheelhouse. I can't treat, diagnosis and prescribe, but if I have their NP chirping at me via text or Facebook messenger, check for this, look for that. Can they tolerate the amoxicillin? It's so fun to be able to integrate those worlds and really bring somebody over to the other side of the fence, so to speak, where they do feel a little more empowered and excited.

Nichi :

And let me just say something about moms. I really and you probably see this just as a provider I really think our society raises moms to not use their critical thinking skills, particularly in the world of health. We have people in white coats and that is who we are supposed to go to believe and walk away with that information and just follow, and sometimes that's right. It's not a bash, it's just like that is how it was done and it is how the foundation was created. But somewhere along the way we've really last touched with the kind of relationship with a doctor in the white coat that is coherent actually, or do we align with them? Do they align with us? Can we meet halfway? Can I take some of your information? Bring that back into our case at home, have it make a difference, do the rest of it the way I feel comfortable doing it, come back and still be honored and respected as mom, right, and so that's always my goal with the practitioners and the moms I work with.

Nichi :

It's like my goal is to not say you've been dumbed down, but to lean into your mama. Intuition matters. Your experience with your children matters. Nobody knows them like you do. Nobody knows how they breathe at night, nobody knows how they present right away in the morning, nobody knows them better than you on their good and bad days, and so there's a huge missing when we're not leaning into mom for that information. So my goal is always to arm her with resources and tools and building up this toolkit at home so that she can start to go.

Nichi :

Oh, last time this happened she suggested this and I think she was talking about something like drainage and so right. And then it's so fun to have them show up for a visit down the road longer than I expected to see them and have them say we were able to take that visit off in between because I remembered and I tried these three things and we totally handled it. She feels better and she's more empowered. There's no fear right Inside of their experience. So I'm always like you, go to your local drug store, which we think is for old people, and all these little devices and things you combine, it's like you can spend 35 bucks by a travel nebulizer. Have it in your back pocket and hear all the times and reasons you could lean into it and avoid all this stuff showing up as a problem.

Dr. Carver:

Yeah, and that's such a good point too. And I went to a conference earlier in the year and one of the lectures kind of his final thoughts were mama bears are gonna change the world. Yeah, and the same way that I'm always empowering the moms too, because, just like you said, no one knows your child better than you. Just because somebody has gone to school for a gazillion years and has some letters after their name doesn't mean that they know your child. But oftentimes the patient will come to me and I don't know what's wrong with them.

Dr. Carver:

I look at all of the tools that I have the traditional tools, right, x-rays and palpation, percussion, whatever. I can't find them. And I'll often ask the patient what do you think is wrong? Right, because you know your body better than anyone and I'm always trying to tell people don't let that go. I'm here as a partner, right, I have some expertise and I have some training, but you are. And that's why I really love muscle testing, because, as I started learning more in that holistic space and especially, I really learned it for nutrition, because I could see something going on and say, wow, you're building a lot of tartar. I think maybe you need magnesium. Well, you tell a person to go get magnesium. They go to the drug store. There's 8,000 brands, all different kinds. A lot of it is junk, right? There's so much controversy over that, and so I didn't want my patients to waste time and money, and so I learned how to do muscle testing to let them know, okay, what form of magnesium is best for you and what is your dosing?

Nichi :

right, because that's really important, If you.

Dr. Carver:

Nick and I both use cell core. I love it and, just like every other supplement, there's standard dosing on a bottle, but does that mean that that's what your body needs at that?

Nichi :

time.

Dr. Carver:

Maybe, maybe not. So muscle testing is another way to tap in kind of to the nervous system and to really understand what your body is needing at that moment. Right, and so that really helps me as somebody who comes in with gum disease and I have a kind of a little protocol now where I'm giving certain binders and oxygen and probiotics, but I need to again tap in. What is your proper dose? Should you open the capsule or should? You swallow the capsule. That makes a big difference.

Dr. Carver:

When we're swallowing capsules may not open to the small intestine, and for me, who's working the oral cavity well, I want it working right up in the mouth. So, again, these are these little things that we can do with muscle testing that you can't do by traditional. And the other thing about lab testing it can be very when you're doing like good functional medicine testing, which definitely has its place. It's very expensive and in everybody's budget.

Dr. Carver:

So if they're willing to go with the muscle testing. So when we're testing the muscles we're looking for, you talk about lock and unlock, or some people talk about weak and strong.

Nichi :

Strength.

Dr. Carver:

Yeah, so why would something create an unlock or a weakening of a muscle versus a strengthening?

Nichi :

So that the easy way to say would be it's a burden to their nervous system, right, or it throws them into a state of dysregulation, but it's a food, it could be. It's a sensitivity. If it's a toxin or a pathogen, it's like an overload, so it's a good way to go. Oh, like, this is the thing that brings me weakness and wow, this is the thing that brings me strength. And the fact that we can apply this in an oral care environment is super exciting and I really wish hopefully this message could be spread far and wide to see that there are options for dental clinics to bring muscle testing either someone on their staff or they can bring in a contractor and the amazing things that you can do with muscle testing or oral care. So my holistic dentist here I'm in Minnesota they don't offer muscle testing there in their clinic. However, they have a muscle testing kit that they have put together and it's so much fun when I have clients who actually use them for their dental care as well, because I'm familiar with that. I don't know if I've shared that sheet with you. I need to do that. So we basically get a worksheet and I think it's $100, kind of a deposit, right. I kind of rent this kit and it's just a bunch of little manila envelopes with smaller envelopes, so I'm guessing it's powders, right, powders, like. The idea is, if people are having their amalgams removed and they want a composite instead, can we create the right recipe so that the body, the mouth, can accept it and it can help heal the situation. And that is a really cool process, because there's one for there are binders, one for I'm trying to remember all these words composites, one for the anesthesia if there's anesthesia involved, so I can sit right there and either muscle test the person in person or do the work virtually to kind of create this perfect recipe with just the right ingredients. And then, because I had to figure this out on my own, shoot, none of this is working. So how am I going to get any of these ingredients into that person's mouth and have a positive experience on the other end? And that's when I'll bring cell core in. So do we need more of our binders? Do we need more drainage? Do we need more mitochondrial function? Whatever the case may be. And then I can the day before, the day of the day after. Here are some additional things that you need to do to have this go well, and then they return back to their dentist with this filled out worksheet so the hygienist can just pull exactly what's needed and they do their mixing. And there you go.

Nichi :

And I did a couple of Instagram lives in. I think it was May, because I woke up one morning and I was like gosh, I feel like a chipmunk. I think I have like nuts and seeds in my cheek and it felt like flappy and funny and I was due for a cleaning. And when I went in she said, oh my gosh, you actually had a filling at one point between your molar and your gum and the filling has come out and you kind of have a escaping hole and it's okay, that's perfect, it's exactly what I'm experiencing. So I was able to take that worksheet and that kit home and muscle test through for myself to figure out what that composite needed to be.

Nichi :

But then I also got curious in that moment like why is this a problem anyway? What's going on with this tooth? And it turns out it wasn't the tooth that was testing, it was the gum that was testing. So I was able to go into our vials, our test kits, and find out and I'm lost on what it was at the moment. There was a nutritional component which meant eat four eggs a day, not two. It was really interesting. And there was a toxin component and there was bacterial component, and so the fact that I had this little quasi three week protocol inside of just what I do every day anyway to help bring resolution to that was so amazing.

Nichi :

And then one of my kiddos was due for a cleaning and had a couple cavities, and so then I was able to test those teeth backtrack. So I did all of that on Instagram live. So it was like I had my finger in my mouth and I had my right explaining along the way what are the questions I'm asking, what are the rabbit holes that I'm kind of going down by way of just what shows up and how do I, more importantly, get back to center and have it all be a cohesive program and, even more than that, understand how it all came about. Because I think even as muscle testers, we can like do our thing, throw it at the client, see you, and not have them be a part of the process, and that's doing a big disservice. So the more narrative I think we are, the more we're sharing the information as it's coming up, the more we're inquiring.

Nichi :

Do you know where that would have come from? Do you have an idea why this emotion could be pocketed right there in that back molar Gets people to start thinking like, wow, I would never have thought. Like, for example, not about teeth, right, but this baby that I saw yesterday. There was an emotion that came up with the stomach and it was like 60% of a problem. And when I tested, the emotion wasn't the babies, it was the moms. And when I went into my emotional kit it was exasperation. Well, no kidding, no kidding. She's been pulling her hair out for nine weeks trying to figure out what's going on with her babe. So no different with any sort of oral care concern. We want to understand why and we want to unpack that story, so to speak, so we can get in there, clean things up and then build back up.

Dr. Carver:

You know what I've noticed recently? The words getting out that I'm more holistic minded and moms are bringing their kids to me and these are holistic moms who understand about nutrition and seeing these kids with mouth full of cavities, it's kind of like what is going on here. They seem to be doing everything right, they're taking their fat soluble vitamins and they've got the minerals, but still full of cavities and you can see the stress in the moms. We don't realize how much our energy right. We have energy that's like five foot around us all the time, right, and we know sometimes when you walk in and there's somebody in front of you and you're just like you don't want to be around them, you don't know what it is Right You're going to have a back up.

Dr. Carver:

And so as moms and I know I'm so guilty of this like with my own kids, when they push, they resist me wanting to give them supplements or do some things, because my energy even though I think it's all about love, my energy is really about fear, right, oh, my God, if you don't do this, you're going to end up with all these issues, right? And so it's called fear of sickness.

Nichi :

It shows up in muscle testing all the time, and so the kids so that.

Dr. Carver:

So I'm stressing my kids out, even though I think I'm trying to be helpful. So I see that a lot with moms and kids that we were bringing the wrong energy, and of course we don't mean to right. We want our kids. As mothers, we want our kids to be the best that we can, and it's really, really interesting so talking to moms about that, and I've had to learn so much about how to change the way I talk to my kids so that they so I won't keep pushing them away.

Dr. Carver:

It's very interesting and, again, that's why muscle testing can be so valuable, because we in health in general, we don't consider emotions as causing any physical problems. I think more and more people are getting open-minded and we're understanding this, but it is so important I'll have a lot of time when people come in with a tooth that's bothering them. There is just no clinical evidence of cavities, infection or crap.

Dr. Carver:

And so it's okay. What's going on emotionally? What's going on in your life lately? Are you stressed, so are you clenching more or something? What is the emotion? And we know with the tooth meridian charts right that there are emotions connected with every meridian, every tooth. So I've seen that in a bunch of cases where when they're under stress the tooth hurts, then they're fine, the tooth doesn't hurt. So it's again fascinating this connection. And again, muscle testing is a way to try to, and a lot of us aren't aware that that emotion is connecting or that it's really impacting our health.

Dr. Carver:

So making people aware of how these emotions are affecting us physically is just another part of their healthcare. That's important, like you said, to empower people to get well. There's no doctor, there's no supplement that's really going to make you better. You, they will help, but really you are in control. I totally believe that that we can all get well kind of on our own, but sometimes we need that help. We do need the support, but I think.

Dr. Carver:

I think when we can empower ourselves, that's really the key to 100% healing making sure we're relying on ourselves, not, not if, if. When somebody comes to me and expects me to make them better and like, ooh, this is going to go well. We need to dive into that emotional component a little bit better.

Nichi :

It is in the energetics, right. So it is in that. How many times do we hear I'm doing all the things. I'm doing all the things and it's so. Maybe not do all the things, like dial it back. Those are good things. We don't have to do all of them every day of the week. We could do one or two of them a day. Take away the have-to's, look at the want-to's, like the deep, internal, like what does your nervous system actually want? And a lot of times it's just that quiet and that stillness and we resist the snot out of that because we're like I'm not getting anything done. I mean this is I should be wearing a crown right now as I say that. Right, it's big, it makes a big, big difference.

Nichi :

And when you speak of the energetics, it made me realize like so much of us in the natural healthcare world are doing what we're doing because there's so much fear mongering in Western medicine. However, there's a certain part of a holistic health that's, if there's a bug, we have to kill it. We have to kill it now. We've got to kill it big, and your whole life depends on killing this little tiny organism, where I just don't know that that's the answer either. I don't think that even when I'm muscle testing and we get things down to zero, people are like, okay, great, awesome, the bacteria's gone, or this fungus is gone. And I was like I don't actually think it's gone. I just think that energy of it has come to a place where, again, I always tell people like you know the coexist bumper sticker, that's what we're going for here. So just bringing the energy down, giving you that power. So what is it that you need to discover about yourself to step into that? I can be well and I deserve to be well, but our subconscious is so set up to have us fail, which is why we use a lot of mindset work in our programs, because there's just such a hook, like we've been hooked and we get hooked over and over again. So when we can pull kind of the reins back on that, on that energetic piece, and then be responsible as practitioners for that, we are not spewing out the same kind of fear mongering that we're trying to avoid or get away from over there.

Nichi :

And I think too, another way of empowering I mean you touched on this but is we have a tooth chart in our practice. So when I had my physical space open. We used these AV cards, which was my favorite little tool ever, and we had the binder on each card. It was the same for each room. They were just labeled for each room and there was a tooth chart and kind of all these quick reference guides that we would go to and when people can start to connect.

Nichi :

This is not right but say tooth number 11, that it's say the kidney or something, and then for them to go, oh wow, my mom's been on dialysis for eight years. Do I need to pay attention to my kidneys? Or they start to look down their lineage a little bit, or their own experience. Case in point when I was dealing with this molar in May, shocking, shocking that it also was connected to my large intestine and stomach, which the bane of my existence. But even though I know that, for me to take off my practitioner hat and go to investigate as my own organism and microbiome, to just be like, oh man, okay, yeah, there it is again. So to now, what? Now I'm empowered to see that I need to have a little conversation with my large intestine and my stomach in a different way. Cause we need to have different behaviors to support the healing. This stress is coming out somewhere else in the body.

Nichi :

So I think that's just that ongoing way to empower and educate, because people want to know things about themselves. They really do. That's why I think people like labs is because they're like here's the analytical data. This is what it says. Unfortunately, I think it's more of. I have this, I have this, I have this and I have this.

Nichi :

And even though in this conversation a month ago where this chronic Lyman mold came up for myself and for someone else in my household, I was like, okay, this, but chronic doesn't mean future, forward and forever. Chronic means has been up until now. There are ways to change what that looks like and to be able to say I've had the experience of, or I'm having the experience of, chronic Lyman mold because, damn it, that's not gonna be the trajectory, we're not gonna hang out in that channel, but it does take a minute of settle into it. What am I making it mean? What does it actually mean? And the problem that I've seen in strictly running Western medicine in terms of care plan or a treatment plan is again like kill, kill, kill, kill.

Nichi :

When that little mime, mother, lover is connected to this whole other picture. And as you and I both know, this picture actually is what has to be tended to before we even knock on the door of this thing called mime, you know, in the middle or at the bottom, and in order for it to be truly impactful and lasting, which I digress. But where can we find those windows of opportunity to connect what they're experiencing about their oral care a cavity, a crack, whatever their kind of dental diagnosis is to what is going on internally, what is going on energetically in their lives? If you think about it, you were talking about a crack tooth a bit ago and one kind of phrase landed because they use language a lot in the method of intentional inquiry where, like we listen for and mom will say, oh, the kiddo guys has got a stomach ache. And I'm like this is nothing around a stomach abdomen, like nothing is testing. So Then I feel kind of lost for a second, until one day I was like but what does the little guy say? So I was like mom, what does he say? And I don't know if it was like my tummy hurts or my tummy has bubbles or something like that, and it was like boom. Instantly the muscle test changed because I got into their world Right and just open that up.

Nichi :

So when you said something about a cracked tooth, I thought about the phrase when people are having big transformation in their life or they're on the brink of it, or they kind of know it needs to happen and they're resisting it a little bit. One of the phrases that we say is you crack open, like you have to crack open. Sometimes it's like a heart ache and a heartbreak, but it's like a positive thing. But think about that for a second. Someone sitting there with a cracked tooth like what just cracked open in their life, that maybe now there is a light shining in, but it doesn't feel like that because they were just told by their dentist they have cracked tooth.

Dr. Carver:

Right, right.

Nichi :

So what can we learn from it so that they can return back to their life with? Actually, I've got an action plan here. I have this thing called self-responsibility. Where I can? She told me, to go, look up the tooth chart, tooth number 28, right. See what I can learn about those organ areas. See what I can learn about emotions associated with those organ areas. And then you've got someone who's now excited in doing their own research and who comes excited back to their next visit instead of dreading the making this up the root canal or whatever it is that's going to happen.

Dr. Carver:

No, it's really important. I think what you're touching on, which I talked to a lot of patients about, is this victim mentality. Right, yeah, we go traditional medicine, you've got to be on blood pressure, musculeation cholesterol and there's a difference between saying I have high blood pressure versus my blood pressure is high. Right when we say I have this, I have this disease and I have this condition it's like ball and chain.

Dr. Carver:

Oh my God, I can do nothing about it because this is my label now, but versus the patient who says my blood pressure is high, that person thinks, okay, it might be high now, but maybe there's something I can do right to control it, and so that's what I'm always trying to teach my patients.

Dr. Carver:

right is you have complete control over your body. So just because you know your cholesterol numbers come back high, okay, well, that's giving us information. So what can we do about that? That doesn't mean you automatically just have to be on cholesterol medication for the rest of your life. What is that signal Like when I got my eczema? What was my body trying to tell me?

Dr. Carver:

And after months and months of going to the dermatologist. That's what kind of came into my head was my body is trying to tell me something. I just have to figure out what it is right and it took me a decade really to understand. And it was once I got into like energy and understanding the mindset and how I wasn't very good at stress. I thought yeah. I can run a business and be a mom and be a wife, and then no problem. Ha, what a joke, right, right.

Nichi :

Excuse me while I have a good laugh over here, right?

Dr. Carver:

Exactly. I mean I just, oh yeah, I'm like I had such an ego. I'm like, yeah, this is going to be so easy Raising kids. Piece of cake, I got this.

Nichi :

Oh, my God.

Dr. Carver:

And so a lot of that eczema was like slow it down. And now you know it's interesting because hands have a lot to do with, like your career and what you're supposed to job and thinking. I'm so passionate about teaching and sharing this information Like that. That is part of my path is to not just be a drill and fill doc but, you know, to be sharing this knowledge and to try to create this ripple effect because we need, we need to understand that we can empower ourselves. I also one of my companies, the Imagine Health, the more health coaching aspect that I do. My symbol is an infinity sign because there's no beginning and end to health, right? Yes, Right.

Dr. Carver:

My eczema may be gone, okay.

Nichi :

Right.

Dr. Carver:

But there are other things that always come up, so it's not just like you said, it's not about just killing the bug. How do we create balance?

Nichi :

When people.

Dr. Carver:

They do these oral DNA saliva tests all the time and, oh my gosh, I've got huge levels of P-ginge valves and huge levels of all these terrible bugs. Well, they can be present in health, right. It is when we get out of balance that these things become a problem.

Dr. Carver:

So we have to rethink that idea of killing everything and again, how do we create balance in the nervous system, balance in the immune system, so that we can make, because you can't get away from the toxins and the bugs that are in this world today? You can't. That cannot be the goal. The goal is how can we create resilience in our body and our mind, right? There's so much stress in the world today. How do we create that resilience so we can get through our life, feeling the joy, feeling the love, pushing our energy into those spaces versus the fear and the worry, because that doesn't serve anyone, right? So I think that's really the value is not worrying so much about fixing something. But that's why muscle testing. There's no beginning and end. So maybe, like you said, a lab test oh, that parasite is gone now, or whatever it is. My line is under control now.

Dr. Carver:

It doesn't mean it's necessarily gone, so there's other things we have to continually be on that journey of wellness and a lot of it has to do with our energetics. You talk to people. They follow Joe Dispenza, these people who are into meditation. You hear all these stories where they go to this meditation for a week and move all of their physical problems totally. They're resolved right, and so I think that's really important to think about. So when we tap into this emotion, we tap into the energy with the muscle testing.

Dr. Carver:

It's just so valuable, I think for our overall and, like you said, empowering you to think about your body. My daughter the other day she was texting me from school and she was having a horrible day and she wanted me to pick her up and I'm at work, I can't drop everything and go and so she ended up going into the guidance office and just taking 20 minutes to just sit and breathe and I said to her I was like that's awesome.

Dr. Carver:

I was like you are recognizing what your body needed and you took the time to just go and quiet yourself. When I was that age I would have just sucked it in and because I'm like I can't dare leave class, I have to be in there. So I appreciate that she, and that's really the goal. We want everyone to feel what's feeling going on in their body and know what their body needs. Like you said, when people are doing all the things like that was me for years I was so frustrated.

Dr. Carver:

I'm like I'm doing all the things. Why is my X-Men not better? But I wasn't tapping into the emotional side.

Dr. Carver:

I was trying to do too much and I was adding stress to my body and sometimes, even now, when I feel like I'm feeling, oh, my achy muscles or whatever, I was like you know what? I just want to take a day. I'm not going to take any supplements, I'm just going to go walk in the field or I'm going to take an app. I think sometimes we just we really need to listen to our intuition, and too much in modern life We've gotten away from that intuition because of what society.

Dr. Carver:

We're telling us what we should or shouldn't do and we ignore what we feel. So I think, with energetics and muscle testing, I hope that people get back to their own intuition, because you know better than anybody what you really need.

Dr. Carver:

But, like you said, that subconscious. You know everything. That's very strong and our subconscious tries to keep us from harm Right and, like you said, like the tooth cracks and it seems, oh my gosh, now I have to have it extracted and an implant or whatever and I have to spend so much money. But reframe that. I really like what you're saying. What is happening? What is this an opportunity for me, instead of always looking at such a bad thing? You know, you hear stories about people who've recovered from stage four cancer, who they are so grateful they had cancer because it showed them another avenue where their life should be.

Nichi :

So it's really, really valuable, it's the power of context right.

Dr. Carver:

Absolutely. So we have a couple of minutes left. Is there anything that you want to share with us? And definitely let us know how we can get in touch with you Again, as Nikki said, muscle testing can be done from afar. There are tons and tons of studies about showing how valuable this is and how accurate it is and doing something like monthly check-ins or whatever quarterly check-ins Again another way to just keep our energy where it needs to be so we can achieve what we're here on this earth to achieve.

Nichi :

So final thoughts. Yeah, just one thought I had is when I'm teaching and, granted, I'm teaching practice I'm teaching the practitioners. However, I have this same conversation with my clients in just a different way. There is, there is like a map, so to speak. Right, there are these things that we know as practitioners need to come into alignment, and, and with each person it's gonna be a little bit different as to kind of how quickly each of these things shore up in someone. But it isn't like we Check in on this, bring this into alignment, get that to a good place, said to that and then we're done. But it also doesn't mean that that we expect that you are gonna be in a place of struggle or illness or something to overcome, like constantly.

Nichi :

And so when I teach, I teach our roadmap, like in a, in a cyclical pattern, because I really believe whether we, you know, kind of drop the program we're doing, whether we decide to take a couple weeks off, whatever it is, or we did a thing and it did its thing and you reached your goal and you go on and do life, and a few months later there's just like something else. That's a little bit off. I kind of like to go okay, well, where? Where they? Where are they in that kind of cycle and then and then we come in and meet them in that place and just kind of continue. Because life is just a rotation, right, it's just a cyclical, phasing, seasonal rotation and and it's like you're getting on the tilt world and you're getting off the tilt world. But because it's life, you're gonna get back on it again at some point. And I have found that a really valuable way to Look at the patterning and kind of programming of my own health, like these seven-year phases of life and these things that you're like why you start to look at a pattern. Yeah, about every seven years you have a similar kind of experience in a relationship or or in a In relationship with self, like it or a circumstance tends to show up as a pattern. You're like turn it, but it, but it will continue until you recognize that.

Nichi :

So, stepping in to meet people where they are and then kind of take that walk with them, like you said it's, we're here to support, we're not here to fix. I always say I'm just your cruise ship director. I get to give you suggestions and recommendations and kind of like supervise the process and you get to decide whether you're gonna do the work. Yeah, and general, yeah, right, where to find me? Our site is my healthy beginning dot-com. My name is Nicole Hirschkeekley. I'm I have an Instagram profile. The practice has an Instagram profile. That's where we're the most active, easiest place to kind of find us and interact.

Dr. Carver:

Thanks for having me Well, thank you so much. Yes, I think we've given some people a lot to lot to think about. And again, nikki's fantastic, so definitely reach out to her and her team and and also you always know where to find me and Thanks again and we'll see you real soon.