The Root of The Matter

Revolutionizing Nutrition: Hormones, Metabolism, and the Power of Quality Eating with Makenzie Evangelisto

• Dr. Rachaele Carver, D.M.D. Board-Certified, Biologic, Naturopathic Dentist

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Unpack the truth about nutrition! In this episode, Dr. Carver teams up with the insightful Makenzie Evangelisto, MSACN, to challenge the status quo of dieting and reveal the intricate dance of hormones, metabolism, and overall health. This episode promises to revolutionize your understanding of what to put on your plate, as we move beyond the outdated calorie counting and into the realm of quality-focused eating. Learn why your body yearns for nutrient-rich foods and how a well-nourished system can become your greatest ally in weight management and metabolic health.

Together with Makenzie, we navigate the often turbulent waters of dietary choices, breaking down the roles of carbohydrates, fats, and proteins in a way that's as enlightening as it is liberating. We'll address the feared fruit sugars and unveil the truth about fats—both the good and the bad—equipping you with the knowledge to make informed decisions in the kitchen. Discover the unique nutritional needs of women throughout their menstrual cycle and how tailoring your diet to these changes can enhance well-being. Protein isn’t left out of the spotlight either; join us as we explore the mental health and detoxification impacts of different protein sources.

Finally, we underscore the influential role of the nervous system in overall wellness, with a candid discussion on food sensitivities, emotional health, and environmental toxins. This conversation is an eye-opener, illustrating how deep-seated issues like inflammation and high cholesterol might be harbingers of more complex health conditions. Tune in to be empowered, as we guide you on a journey to trust your intuition just as much as scientific evidence when it comes to your health. Don’t miss this transformative exploration of nutrition, where the wisdom of our bodies meets the precision of evidence-based research.

To work with Makenzie check out:

www.therecoveryroom.biz/harvest-health

Here are the books Makenzie recommends: 

  • Deep Nutrition by Dr. Catherine Shanahan. 
  • In The FLO by Allisa Vitti. 
  • The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz. 
  • How to Heal Your Metabolism by Kate Deering. 

(Available on Amazon.com and in major bookstores.)

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To learn more about holistic dentistry, check out Dr. Carver's website:


http://carverfamilydentistry.com


To contact Dr. Carver directly, email her at drcarver@carverfamilydentistry.com. 


Want to talk with someone at Dr. Carver's office?  Call her practice: 413-663-7372



Disclaimer: This podcast is for educational purposes only. Information discussed is not intended for diagnosis, curing, or prevention of any disease and is not intended to replace advice given by a licensed healthcare practitioner. Before using any products mentioned or attempting methods discussed, please speak with a licensed healthcare provider. This podcast disclaims responsibility from any possible adverse reactions associated with products or methods discussed. Opinions from guests are their own, and this podcast does not condone or endorse opinions made by guests. We do not provide guarantees about the guests' qualifications or credibility. This podcast and its guests may have direct or indirect financial interests associated with products mentioned.

Rachaele:

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the root of the matter. I am your host, dr Rachel Carver, and today we are very fortunate to have my good friend and colleague, mackenzie Evangelista, who is going to talk to us all about nutrition. So I talk a lot about different kind of foods and supplementation. That's so crucial for health these days, but it is so confusing. I mean, I went and did an entire year of a nutrition curriculum, got my health coaching certificate because I really wanted to understand nutrition, because most doctors and dentists, we don't learn anything about this in our four plus years of training and it is so confusing.

Rachaele:

Out there, right, you've got this headline, you've got this new book, you've got carnivore, you've got vegan, vegetarian. How do you know what diet is right for you? And something I'm constantly like working, tweaking with I think I've tried almost all the diets. So, mackenzie, why don't you tell us a little bit? Maybe we can start with the whole calories in, calories out deal. Yes, talk to us about that. We're supposed to eat a 2500 calorie diet. What does that even mean, and are calories even relevant?

Makenzie:

Yes. So this is absolutely one of my favorite topics, because when we think about calories in, calories out, this is a really outdated way of thinking about the body. If things were actually that simple, everybody who has ever dieted and exercised would be walking around with the results that they wanted in the first place, right? It's not that simple, though. So when we think about calories in, calories out, people are often referring to your metabolism. Well, you have to be in a caloric deficit in order for you to actually lose the weight that you want to lose. Well, when we talk about metabolism, metabolism doesn't really care about calories in, calories out. It doesn't really care about quantity. What it actually cares about is quality, and the metabolism is not just this perfect mathematical science where you can produce the results that you want the most, because there are different organs in different systems that are actually involved in the health of the metabolism. So, something that I see really frequently with I predominantly work with women in my practice. That's just the clientele that I predominantly have as females. They come in and they've been struggling with weight loss their entire life. Maybe they reached a period where they were doing some type of a calories in, calories out method and they got some results, but then they either plateaued, couldn't lose any more weight, or they just didn't lose the weight at all. Or, even worse, sometimes people end up gaining weight from doing that method, and that's because the organs in the systems that are involved with metabolism have very specific nutritional needs, and those nutritional needs are not defined by calories. It's defined by quality. So we're thinking macronutrients, we're thinking micronutrients. So when you think about metabolism, what are these organs and systems that are involved? You have your adrenals. They're involved. The pancreas is involved. The liver is involved, your thyroid, your pituitary these are all different organs that can be involved in the health of your metabolism. And what also drives metabolism is hormones, and hormones are also interconnected with all these different organs.

Makenzie:

So a lot of the times, what I see with these women is that they're coming in and they're struggling and they're trying to do all the things right. They've been on every diet, like you said, dr Carver. They've been on everything. They've tried keto, they've tried paleo, they've tried just going gluten free. They've tried it all and nothing is working for them. That's because there are specific organs that are involved, that are experiencing some level of stress, whether that comes from a nutritional deficiency or it actually comes from some level of toxicity, and that toxicity can come from different environmental challenges. It can be an underlying food sensitivity. I see that a lot with thyroid stuff. So there's something about the thyroid and gluten that just does not mesh well. There's a lot of that going on, so that can stress out the thyroid, which can then impact its overall function.

Makenzie:

But that's not the only thing that can drive lower functioning thyroid health. There are other environmental stressors that can impact that as well. So we're talking about toxic heavy metals. We're talking about chemicals like pesticides and glyphosate. We're talking about even endocrine disruptors. Those are different chemicals that will affect the thyroid, which will then interfere with metabolism. And then there's also underlying immune challenges. So this is the one that I actually see the most Some of the women that come in that have been struggling for pretty much their entire life that can't lose weight. It is usually a subclinical thyroid problem or anterior pituitary problem, but more than anything else, there's underlying low levels of immune dysfunction that's being driven by chronic immune challenges. So things like viruses, bacteria, parasites, fungus I see it all and the problem is that when those are lingering in the body, that is going to be the body's priority. It's going to work on putting out that fire and metabolism and hormones and all those other things that are involved with metabolism are going on the back burner.

Rachaele:

Yeah, and those underlying infections at the cellular level. They're interrupting that mitochondrial energy production. So we've talked about it before where those mitochondria can either be an energy production mode or defense mode, and that's why fatigue is such a common symptom. These underlying infections are messing up our body's ability to produce energy and then the body is just trying to be in defense mode. So you can't make hormones right?

Rachaele:

You can't. Your metabolism is going to be slower because, just like you said, that part of the system is getting shut down, because the primary concern of the body is these infections and I love that you brought this up, because we talk about this a lot on the show these toxins and these infections that are screwing it up. And, just like you said, we talked about quality. I remember from one of the very first lectures I gave to a community of women we talked about this calories and calories out. A hundred calorie snack pack is not the same as a hundred calories of broccoli, and I think that's very intuitive when you think about that. Yeah, it makes sense.

Rachaele:

So again, we've got to get away from the whole idea of calories because again, it's the quality, it's nutrient dense, and that's one of the problems I see today. Why we have so much chronic illness is because there's a quote I don't know who it's attributed to, but as a country, even maybe globally, we are overfed but undernourished. So we have so much processed food out there which is loaded with calories, but they are completely nutrient deficient calories. They are not providing, like you talked about, macro nutrients. So you can tell us a little bit. What is a nutrient dense food, and where can we find that in today's processed age?

Makenzie:

Yes. So something that I learned very early on working with a holistic nutritionist, before I actually went that route myself, was talking about well, where do you find these nutrient dense foods? In grocery stores, it's going to be on the perimeter. So when you think about the perimeter of a grocery store, where are we looking? We're looking at the produce aisles, we're looking at all the fresh fruit, we're looking at some of the refrigerated stuff, so like yogurts and whole milks, eggs, dairy, but what you're not finding in the perimeter is all that processed junk that's somewhere in the middle in all of those aisles.

Makenzie:

And now, something that we also have to define is what even is a processed food? So there is also what's called an ultra processed food. So the definition of processed is basically any type of manipulation to a food to produce a specific outcome. So, at the very simple level, processed can be you cooking broccoli, right, but that's not the kind of processed food that we're talking about. We're talking about those ultra processed foods, so those foods that have been manufactured in factories that are then being produced to put on shelves, that have shelf stable lives and preservatives in them and are loaded with macro nutrients, so calories.

Makenzie:

But they're not like you said, rachel, they're not nutrient dense. So the nutrient dense foods are things that are loaded with really wonderful essential micro nutrients. And micro nutrients are going to be your vitamins and minerals, and those vitamins and minerals are basically running the show. And the macro nutrients when we talk about macro nutrients, those are your fats, your proteins, your carbohydrates, which are also very necessary. But at the end of the day, your micro nutrients stores because, like you said, at the cellular level, we want to produce energy at the cellular level. Well, if those cells don't have the very vital micro nutrients that they need for the cofactors for enzymatic reactions to happen, you're not going to have energy, you're going to have fatigue, and that's coming from those ultra processed foods that are essentially devoid of those essential micro nutrients.

Rachaele:

So not only are they devoid, but then they have all the unnecessary, unhealthful toxins, right. So glyphosate is a big one, right? This is the main ingredient in Roundup. We know it is linked to all sorts of cancers. And the problem now is does organic even exist anymore? Because we're finding glyphosate in the water, in the air, in Alaska, in the middle of nowhere in Antarctica. So it's prolific and it's very, very problematic. It shuts down, it destroys our microbiome, it creates leaky gut and glyphosate is found in all non-organic wheat products, rice even.

Rachaele:

I mean this is a very common herbicide or pesticide that's been used to kill pests, but in that same manner that also makes the plants nutrient deficient. So let's say you're not having a wheat, let's say it's unprocessed, but you have glyphosate-ridden wheat. It doesn't have any of those normal minerals, so you're eating it and you're not getting any dense, any good health effects from wheat. So say you have that product. Whereas you can go to Europe, they don't allow the glyphosate. The wheat is much more. So you can side-by-side comparison and I'll hear people say all the time oh, I went over to Europe and I could eat all the wheat I wanted, it wasn't a problem. Well, over in Europe, right, they don't allow all the stuff that is allowed over in this country, unfortunately, and the biggest people who are being affected by this are the children, right? I mean think of the children's diet as very heavy on grains, and so their buckets are getting fuller a lot faster. That's why we're seeing so much chronic disease on kids today. Everybody's got a leaky gut, everybody's got fatty liver or all of these problems, because we're not getting the key nutrients.

Rachaele:

So let's talk a little bit more about the macronutrients, because I know I think people get confused. People say, well, if I go low carb, that's going to be healthy, and maybe I think what we want to think about is maybe grain free. Right, we know carbohydrates grains fall into that category, but carbohydrates are absolutely essential. I think I myself fell down this rabbit hole Like, oh, no carbs, no carbs, it's bad. I don't want to feed the bugs. However, I wasn't feeding my liver, right? My liver needs glucose, right? So maybe let's talk about what is a carbohydrate and what are the ones that our body needs, and maybe ones that aren't as necessary or could be harmful.

Makenzie:

Yeah, absolutely so. For carbohydrates, you have your simple carbohydrates, so those are going to be things like sugar, fruit sugar. It's going to be things like processed foods. Those are considered simple carbohydrates. They're going to be things that immediately have an impact on your blood sugar level. So your blood glucose. Then you have your complex carbohydrates, so those are longer chains of glucose, more known as glycogen. That's, your storage for glucose in the liver is glycogen and those are going to take a little more time for your body to digest and absorb into the bloodstream, which means that you're not going to get that typical blood glucose spike. So insulin is a hormone that's secreted from your pancreas and that's responsible for pulling glucose from the blood and bringing it inside of your cells in order for it to be utilized for energy production. It takes much longer for your body to digest and absorb complex carbohydrates than it does simple carbohydrates. So we really want to be adding in more complex carbohydrates so that we don't get that blood glucose spike.

Makenzie:

That's kind of a lot of the fear that you hear with carbohydrates is not only is it going to be feeding pathogens, but it's also going to spike your blood sugar levels, which is going to affect your insulin is going to affect your pancreas. It's going to affect your body at the cellular level. However, there's a lot of fear mongering out there about carbohydrates in general. I personally include a ton of golden potatoes in my diet. Something that we don't talk about about golden potatoes is they have actually a lot of antimicrobial properties and we don't talk about that nearly enough because we're too afraid of the fact that that's a simple carbohydrate. So we shouldn't really be including that in our diet very often. But that's not true, and it's also really not true of women. So the number one mistake well, actually I shouldn't say the number one mistake, but probably in the top five mistakes that I see women make, especially women who are still menstruating is that we remove the essential carbohydrate source that our body needs.

Rachaele:

I'm guilty of that. I wonder why do my hormones not work right? What's going on here? Yeah, so starving my liver.

Makenzie:

Yes, you're starving your liver, but you're also starving your body as a whole.

Makenzie:

So something I talk about with clients quite often is, say, you were to go on a lower calorie diet, right, and then there are days where that totally satisfies you, you're good, you're like, oh yeah, I could keep doing this. Then one day you wake up and suddenly that's changed, that normal caloric intake that you have been doing. You're like, oh, my God, I'm starving. Why am I so hungry? Yesterday this totally satisfied me and today it doesn't.

Makenzie:

That's probably because you just went from your follicular and ovulatory phase, so your first two halves of your cycle, and you've now shifted into your luteal phase, which is the 14 day period right before your menstrual phase. In that luteal phase, women who are still menstruating need about 200 to 300 more calories per day at minimum in order for your hormones to properly produce, regulate and actually work. So when we are on those low carbohydrate diets, we are basically pulling an essential food source, particularly in that luteal phase, because in that luteal phase you actually need more carbohydrates, which is often why you find yourself craving things like sugar and even salt, because we want that quick acting energy source in order for our hormones to regulate.

Rachaele:

So some of us keep chasing the I need more progesterone or estrogen, or I need to do this or that one. Really, if you just ate a banana, it might make a big difference. Talk to us a little bit about fruit, because that gets a little bit confusing. Don't have fruit. There's too much sugar in that.

Makenzie:

I'm guilty of that too. I did that for a long time, especially because I was dealing with a lot of gut imbalances, leaky gut. I was dealing with a lot of pathogens, and I mean honestly, we're exposed to pathogens every single day. Most of us are walking around with some type of underlying infection. However, it's how the body is able to compensate and cope in order for us to not experience symptoms from those underlying infections.

Makenzie:

So, with fruit particularly, you hear a lot of people saying don't add fruit in because it's really high in sugar. You're going to feed the pathogens, you're going to make your gut stuff worse. Well, you might. However, you also might not, and the reason being because of the liver. So the liver you mentioned it earlier, dr Carrer is it actually requires sugar. That's its primary source of fuel. So when we talk about sugar, you have a couple of different forms, but one of the most talked about forms are glucose and fructose. So you'll hear this a lot in the medical community and you'll also hear it a lot in the holistic community.

Makenzie:

There's a rise in non-alcoholic fatty liver syndrome. This is when the liver starts to get fatty, and we traditionally see that with excess alcohol consumption, but now we're actually finding that that happens with excess fruit fructose consumption. So what is the primary sugar source with fruit? It's fructose. So this is why fruit has ultimately gotten a bad rep is because, oh, you shouldn't be eating too much fructose. I'm sorry, but did anybody ever gain weight from actually just eating fruit? No, they didn't, because look at the profile of a fruit.

Makenzie:

The profile of a fruit is also really rich in those micronutrients that we were talking about, that you need for proper liver detoxification and if you can't properly detoxify, you're not getting rid of those toxins, you're not getting rid of those underlying pathogens.

Makenzie:

You're gonna feel pretty crappy most of the time. So it's really not the fructose in the fruit. That's the problem that I found personally and clinically with the clients that I work with. It's actually the combination and the quality of the fructose. So the fructose in a fruit is gonna contain fiber, it's going to contain micronutrients, like we're talking about so essential vitamins and minerals, whereas fructose from something like highly concentrated high fructose corn syrup which, by the way, is produced from corn, which is predominantly a genetically modified crop but is also one of the top three sprayed plants with pesticides so it's that highly concentrated source of high fructose, corn syrup or things that are in combination like really high fats from ultra processed foods in combination with fructose. That becomes problematic and that's because really high fat foods in combination with fructose really makes the bloodstream sluggish and then that makes it really hard for the liver to absorb the fructose that it needs to actually function properly. That's where the real problem lies, absolutely.

Rachaele:

I actually just finished listening to an eight part series by Jay Feldman. He has a podcast called the Energy Balance. He did an eight part series on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and he said exactly what you just said that the fatty liver is from the polyunsaturated fats and endotoxin. So, just like you were saying, those, the high fructose, corn syrup, that kind of fructose, and then in the bad processed fats, right? So in processed foods we see the soybean oil, the corn oils, the canola. Those are the unhealthy fats that Mackenzie was just talking about and we call them Pufas and other. You'll see that too.

Rachaele:

Those polyunsaturated fatty acids also create leaky gut, which produces more of the endotoxins, which then we get that whole cycle. So again, the point is no fruit. I mean that it's not the fruit, it's not the fructose from fruit that is causing all these problems and that has been debunked in the science. So thank you for elucidating that for us. So let's, let's go into fats now, since we talked about that back in the 70s. Right, there's the famous Ancel Keys, seven Countries study where?

Rachaele:

he very picked certain countries and that became the basis of the new food paradigm, where we have to shoe all fats because fats are horrible and they cause heart disease, and now we need to have a diet based on grains, and this was the absolute downfall of our health, and we are seeing it now. Forty, fifty years later. The results of those recommendations have created the sickest nation, maybe even global, population that it is. So let's talk about that. There are saturated fats. We have unsaturated fats. What's the difference? What does our body need?

Makenzie:

Yes. So I will say there's been a lot of hype in the holistic community and just in any type of alternative health care community in general, about those polyunsaturated fatty acids, so those Pufas that you're just talking about. There's a lot of fear going on with Pufas. I will tell you that I don't believe that all Pufas are bad. So there are certain ones that are actually incredibly beneficial, especially for women's hormones, for those who are still menstruating. So really, the not so great Pufas that are contributing to that leaky gut, those endotoxins, a not great gut microbiome profile those are going to be like Dr Carver said it's going to be corn oil, it's going to be canola oil, even peanut oil. I'm seeing a lot of safflower oil. So even a lot of healthful products that have really great ingredients end up having safflower oil. There is some back and forth about sunflower oil. Some people say definitely not a great Pufa. You should really totally eliminate that. However, I'm somebody who really believes in bioindividuality, so it really depends on what your body's threshold is Like. What is your toxin load like already? Maybe your gut microbiome was okay. You might be able to tolerate a little bit of organic sunflower oil. So I'm not like anti sunflower oil. I'm also not anti other seed oils, so things like sesame seed oil or black seed oil those are Ayurvedic traditions so those play a really vital role in people's health. Things like evening primrose oil. So evening primrose oil is amazing for the luteal phase of a woman's cycle, so that 14 day period right before their menstrual phase. I've had amazing success with women who just implemented a little bit of evening primrose oil during that phase of their cycle in their periods were so much less painful. They just felt overall more energized, less fatigue. So some of those Pufas are really great. Things like avocados Avocados are not a Pufa but they are a monounsaturated fatty acid, which is also a different type of of lipid profile. But then you have your saturated fats, right, so what you were talking about. So a saturated fat is actually a more stable fat. So if you can think back to basic biology, way back and think about what that molecular structure of a saturated fat looked like, every single molecule was bonded to a hydrogen, so it was a complete bond, so there were no double bonds. When there is a double bond that's when you have a monounsaturated, or if you have multiple double bonds, you have a polyunsaturated fat those double bonds make it so that lipid is less stable. So a saturated fat is going to be the most stable form of fat that you can find.

Makenzie:

These are the fats that you actually want to cook with. So a lot of people will talk about oh, you should use extra virgin olive oil. That's the best form of cooking. That's the best oil to cook with. Not necessarily. So you can cook the research says, safely, around 350 degrees, with extra virgin olive oil and you can lightly saute anything beyond that. You're going to want to cook with those saturated fats. So those saturated fats are things like grass-fed butter, it's ghee, it's tallow, it's lard, it's coconut oil. You can cook with avocado oil, although I will caution regard to avocado oil, because that is a largely unregulated industry, because it is still on the newer side. So most avocado oils those brands can actually market it as 100% pure avocado oil when in reality it might actually be mixed with some of those Pufas, so some of those unwanted oils like sunflower or safflower oil, so the only two. There was a research study published that said the only two pure forms of avocado oil were mariannes and chosen foods. So if you are going to cook with that, it would be that Now, the reason why those polyunsaturated fats are not so great to cook with is because of those double bonds we were talking about.

Makenzie:

So those are really unstable and when they're subjected to high heat it creates free radicals. And free radicals are basically a rogue oxygen molecule in the body that, if you can think of like a ping pong game, right when the ball is like, that's what it's doing inside your body with all of your cells. That rogue oxygen molecule is trying to bond with something and it's just going all over the body and hitting all of your different cells and disrupting your cell membranes. And your cell membranes are crucial for protecting what's inside the cell. So when our cell membranes are damaged, the overall cell is damaged. The function becomes poor. That's when you get that fatigue, that's when you feel like you don't feel very well and your body can't operate as well. So those are the different types of fats and kind of what you want to look for with those.

Rachaele:

And so, speaking of cell membranes, right, every cell is kind of coated in cholesterol. Yeah, no, cholesterol, that's such a bad word. Let's not say that. Another thing that's been misdirected in the world over the last time ever decades. Cholesterol is vital for every single cell membrane in the body. When you have cholesterol in your cell membrane you have a nice fluid, flexible membrane that allows nutrients to come in and waste to go out. When you are eating a diet that's high in these bad poof oils, the canola, the corn, those membranes become rubbery, almost like inflexible.

Rachaele:

They're less able to transfer nutrients and release toxins, right. So this is another problem. This is a problem with the statin drugs, right. When we reduce cholesterol, which is absolutely vital, we're kind of we're not really addressing the root problem. And by lowering cholesterol artificially with the statin drugs, we're kind of missing the boat, right?

Rachaele:

So again, saturated fat that is what our bodies were designed to eat Back in the hunter-gatherer days, we were eating meat, everything was saturated, we didn't have all these seed oils and again, that's how our body developed. These are the healthier fats. They're more stable, so they don't get oxidized, they don't create. I love your little ping pong analogy. That's exactly right. This is a very good visual, so super important. We need to have these saturated fats. And when, all of your animal meat, when you're eating meat, that's where you're getting those fats. And again, very few people have allergies to meat because that's what our body is designed to eat, with all these things that are man-made, that have created so many of the problems in our body today. So don't be afraid of saturated fat. Please eat your butter. Throw away that margarine, eat your butter.

Rachaele:

I was thinking a while ago how come, if you think back to the iconic 1950s and the diners and everybody was eating hamburgers and french fries and milkshakes and soda and nobody was overweight very few, right, you had to go to the circus to see overweight people. Well, back then, right, we didn't have glad to say in the wheat, right, there were no antibiotics in the meat. French fries were fried in beef tallow right, soda had real cane sugar and milkshake, same thing. There wasn't that processed dairy, so we could eat all of that fat which today is considered junk food. But when it was done properly, all those decades ago, it wasn't causing the excess fat that we see today. So that's what's important to understand. And when we do these calorie restriction diets, we're actually turning our metabolism down, so that makes it harder to burn fat. So that's a big, big problem with fasting. There's all this rage about fasting.

Rachaele:

And when I was first getting over my eczema, fasting really helped me and it can be helpful because it reduced some of that substrate that maybe some of the bad bugs in my gut were dealing with. So I was producing by eating less. I was producing fewer toxins, which had an impact, but doing that long-term and still, like you said, as a menstruating woman, then that really I'm always working on my liver. My liver is never getting fed enough because I was always too worried about eating too many carbohydrates and I still think grains are to be avoided because, again, of all the processing, we talk a lot about gluten, gluten, gluten. I honestly think, yes, maybe gluten is part of the problem, because that protein has changed.

Rachaele:

However, to me, it's all the glyphosate, all of those bad oils that are added in with the wheat, that make wheat so problematic. Yes, even Stephanie Senup she's a prominent researcher out of MIT. I think that that's I just read that, actually that she, that's her belief too. It's all that that added stuff, right Cause we've been eating wheat. Yes, it's not the wheat we ate millennia ago, but still that has been in our diet for a long time. So, again, it's the addition of these bad seed oils, the glyphosate, all of this stuff that are kind of wreaking havoc on our gut microbiome, on the liver, all right, so we've kind of done carbs, fats. Let's talk about protein. That's another big misconception. Should we have too much protein, not enough protein? I've noticed like as we get older women especially, we need a little more protein because we need those amino acids for our health. So let's talk about protein.

Makenzie:

All right. So a couple of things before we move on to the protein. I did want to know about the cholesterol. Something that people don't realize is when you go on a statin medication, that now increases your risk for type two diabetes. So you're not only trying to lower that cholesterol right, that's so bad for you You're now also making yourself susceptible to getting a secondary diagnosis of type two diabetes.

Makenzie:

Cholesterol most people don't realize. We talk a lot about glutathione, right, and glutathione being the most powerful antioxidant in the body. What people don't realize is that cholesterol actually isn't antioxidant. So when people have increased levels of cholesterol, I take a look at their entire lipid profile. So I'm looking at their total cholesterol, I'm looking at their HDL, I'm looking at their LDL, I'm looking at their ratio and I'm also, in combination with that, looking at their CBC. So your CBC is your complete blood count and I'm looking at the WBC differential, so your white blood cell count differential.

Makenzie:

Because if somebody is coming to me and saying, like I have high cholesterol, all the time I've been on medications, nothing is working. I can't get my cholesterol down. They've tried every diet, they're actually eating well and they are exercising and their cholesterol is still through the roof. It's not a cholesterol problem. It's an underlying immune problem. It's an underlying toxin problem that cholesterol is sent to those areas of the body to bring down inflammation and to protect that area of the body from damage. So that's why those cholesterol markers are going up. It's not because it's an actual cholesterol problem. Cholesterol foods do not increase your cholesterol levels. That is an outdated way of thinking. It has been proven multiple times now that cholesterol from food does not increase your cholesterol levels. It's really an underlying toxin load a lot of heavy metals or, like I said, it's an underlying immune challenge that needs to be cleared, which is why those people are not responding to those cholesterol medications. So I love talking about cholesterol. That is probably my favorite Magical nutrients, to be honest.

Rachaele:

Seriously, but it's one of the most popular drugs. So, ding, ding, ding. If you get nothing else from that podcast and from this podcast, just that last little tidbit, listen to it again. Okay, cholesterol is not a problem. Cholesterol is a response to the underlying problem. Okay. So, as we've said before, toxins, infections, toxins, infections. Okay, if your blood pressure is going up, your cholesterol is going up, if any of your markers are getting outside the so-called norm, you've got to look for the toxins and infections.

Rachaele:

When I'm working with patients, two of the tests that I do most often are the organic acid test and the toxin test. Organic acid test is a simple urine test and it shows a lot of what's going on, what's being actually absorbed in you. So when you do a blood test, right, and you look for certain things in the blood, one, it's that moment in time. Two, it's in the blood, it's not in the cells. So the level in your blood isn't necessarily indicative of what's happening in the cells, right. Whereas when you do the urine test, it's the metabolites of the vitamins and minerals, and then you can kind of see where is your energy maybe going off. And then I want to know what is the toxins? Do you have mold toxins? Do you have the organic acids that can show parasites and fungus markers are in there and obviously it's more complex and no test is perfect, but that's why people like Mackenzie and I will use a combination to try to look for patterns and you have to take the whole person's everything into account. But again, a lot of these markers, they're a signal, right, so we don't need to go out. Just same thing in Alzheimer's, where we're trying to go after these. The beta amyloid Same thing. Beta amyloid is a response to inflammation that's caused from guess what toxins and infections. Yeah, so coming out, we all try to find out what are the toxins and infections that are messing up our metabolism. Yeah, and therefore, when you can fit and again, think about the last few years, the people who got COVID, the worst, the people who have long COVID.

Rachaele:

To me, long COVID equals autoimmunity. What is autoimmunity? Toxins and infections, right. So this, somebody who has these long lingering effects, had this underlying immune dysfunction, right, but these are low grade type of infections. That it's not. You're not getting a fever, you're not necessarily always feeling like so it goes undiagnosed.

Rachaele:

And a lot of these toxins, infections, come from the mouth, right, so it's so super important that we're checking them, because I had a patient yesterday new x-rays and just loads of infections under the teeth. He feels nothing, so he doesn't wanna do anything and I'm like, okay, but all the toxins from these infections are draining through your lymph system, affecting your metabolism, affecting your immune system. So it's a big deal. So we need to. So when we're looking my point is, when we're looking for those toxins, infections the mouth is a big part of that and the nice thing about the mouth it's so accessible. It's very easy relatively I'm saying this as a dentist to clear those kinds of infections versus a gut infection. Right, it's a lot easier to help hear that so you can improve immune function by improving your health. When you have gum disease, you're constantly swallowing those toxins which can lead to these cholesterol and blood pressure issues. So very important point, okay, and with that.

Makenzie:

I was gonna say one more thing too.

Makenzie:

Yeah, so I'll talk to you about protein. I'm gonna go off on one little tangent still, because you talked about and you brought up a really another great point is inflammation. I have a lot of clients that come to me and say I just need to clear my inflammation. It's the inflammation, the inflammation is the root of this. It's inflammation, it's inflammation. And they're telling themselves it's inflammation. And while that may be true, there is definitely inflammation present, which is why you're getting that response from the cholesterol or you're getting that response from the blood pressure or however other way that it's manifesting as inflammation for you. I will tell you this. I tell every single client I know what you've heard online that inflammation is the root cause of all disease. No, it is not. Root inflammation is a common denominator across all disease.

Makenzie:

However, clearing your inflammation with things like turmeric or curcuminoids, that's not getting to the root of your present day conditions. That is another way that we actually symptom mask, because if you are just clearing out the inflammation, you're gonna be chasing your tail all the time. You're gonna be going around and around in circles and you're gonna be like why does this inflammation keep coming back? My condition isn't fully healing or restoring and the inflammation, it just won't come down. Well, yeah, because you didn't actually clear the thing that's driving the inflammation in the first place, which is what you say, dr Garver toxins and infections. Until you clear those toxins and infections, that inflammation is going to continue to re-merge, that inflammation is always going to be present. And if you keep managing the inflammation, you're just going to keep symptom masking. So you really got to get to the root of that.

Makenzie:

Now I tell everybody, just because you're getting to the root of something doesn't mean that you can't symptom manage at the same time. So you can absolutely use things like turmeric or curcuminoids to help manage the pain and the inflammation while you're working on getting to the root cause of it. But that's something that I like to make clear with my clients, because they're always like, oh, it's the inflammation, I got to clear the inflammation. No, it's the underlying toxins and infections. We got to work on those first. Yeah, so let's dive into the protein. So what would you like to know about protein?

Rachaele:

So how much do we need to eat? Some people say, at every meal, have a. The size of your palm is the right amount for you. So again, children versus man versus woman, versus menstruating and not menstruating women we all have kind of different requirements and some people say, oh, don't have any protein, that's not good, or have too much protein. So how do we manage this? How do we know what might be right for us?

Makenzie:

Yeah. So protein is actually one of those things, and really I should say, for every macronutrient that is totally bio individualized, something that we really love to do as humans and say is say, aha, I found it, this is it. This is the amount of protein that everybody in the world should be getting every single day. Or this is the amount of saturated fats that everybody should be eating every single day. Get rid of all those poofas. Lower your carbohydrates Now increase your carbohydrates. We love to have something that's solid for us to hang on to, to be like well, if I do this thing, it's going to work for me. Right Now. This is simply, it really comes down to bio individuality. So this is where I really hone into people's symptoms. This is where I really hone into their blood work. What are their present day conditions? What is their family history like? So, with protein, proteins are amino acids and amino amino acids are basically the building blocks and the foundations of our cells, along with fats. So with protein, you'll hear people say, oh, you should be getting roughly one to 1.1 kilograms per pound of protein. Based off of your body weight, that's how much protein you should be getting each day, and also not necessarily true. So if somebody is coming to me and they've got kidney trouble, right, so what are some of the signs and symptoms of kidney trouble? Well, it could be a high histamine load, so someone with a lot of itchy skin, a lot of skin stuff going on. It could also be somebody with high blood pressure. It could be somebody with low blood pressure. We talk about high blood pressure a lot, but there's a lot of women walking around with really low blood pressure too. I'm going to take a look at their signs and symptoms first, before I ever gauge how much protein they should be eating. Now, one of the biggest things that's really talked about on the media right now is well, you got to balance your blood sugar, especially for women. You hear that Well, you got to balance your blood sugar, so you've got to be eating a ton of protein, protein, protein, protein. We're actually not eating enough protein every day. We are severely lacking in the quality protein that we should be eating per day.

Makenzie:

If someone's got some kidney challenges going on, adding in more protein is really not going to be helpful. In fact, it could be it could really damage their kidneys even further. So you really kind of have to have moderate protein. I'm not someone who removes protein entirely, but you got to focus on more of like a moderate protein if someone's experiencing some level of kidney dysfunction, because that's just going to put more stress on the kidneys. So it's really listening to the signs and symptoms from your own body and what's going on. So ideally, yes, maybe like a palm size thing of animal protein, it could be three times a day for every meal. It could be twice a day. It really just depends on the person.

Makenzie:

And then there's different types of protein too. You talked about it earlier. We were designed to eat animal proteins. They are more bioavailable versus plant proteins. You see that a lot.

Makenzie:

I'm not an anti-plant protein person and I'm not 100% for all animal proteins all the time. There's different seasons in different people's lives where they're going to have different nutrient requirements. So there may be a season in somebody's life where they might need to scale back on the animal protein and even the plant protein and they might need more of a therapeutic plant-based diet just for a temporary period of time to help them clear out that toxin load. So if you've got someone who's got really, really high toxin load and the liver is super bogged down.

Makenzie:

You might want to do more of a therapeutic plant-based diet with protein involved, because when you talk about detoxification, you have phase one, which requires all of those antioxidants, those micronutrients, those really good plant foods, and then you have phase two, and phase two actually does require amino acids. So if you're not getting at least some forms of protein in so you see, all those people that do all those juice cleanses right, or you've got a juice cleanse in order to clear out the liver the juice cleanse is going to be the only thing. Well, you can do that, but you're also going to want to get those amino acids in. So that's where I might supplement with more of like a beef protein, isolate protein powder for somebody, or I might have them do more collagen, even though collagen is not a complete protein, so it's missing some of those essential amino acids. Having those amino acids there is going to help them detoxify while they're doing some of the juice cleansing. So it really just depends, honestly, for how much protein somebody needs.

Rachaele:

And I think, again, it's the amino acids that we really need, the breakdown products of protein. That is super important for detoxification. So if you're doing, just as McKenzie said, some kind of detox plan, you need to have that protein in order to do it. Thinking about, like mental health, people with depression, anxiety if we're not getting enough protein, we're not making the amino acids that are absolutely vital for the neurotransmit. So if you're someone, maybe, who suffers from all those kind of things and maybe you're not eating enough meat or maybe you're not getting, if you're a vegetarian, it's hard to get enough of that high quality essential amino acid you can take. There are amino acid supplements that you can do. Again, nothing's as good as real food but, again, depending on your situation, there are these different avenues you can take. But protein is really vital. The other thing that's important when you have a protein, you do need a little carbohydrate with that.

Rachaele:

So I know I was like, oh, maybe I'll try the carnivore diet, which is just basically all meat, and I was going on a trip to do some conference somewhere and I remember I ate maybe six ounces of chicken breast and that's all I ate, and I got in the car to drive to the airport.

Rachaele:

I almost didn't make to the airport. I was so exhausted because, right, so we think of protein as keeping our blood sugar stable, but protein turns into glucose If you do not have that balance with the carbohydrate. So what happened is my insulin came and my blood sugar tanked. All that protein, my insulin shot up and boom, all of a sudden I had no blood sugar and I was exhausted and I didn't really understand that at the time because I was like, well, no, but this should be good because I'm not. I'm not, I should be keeping my blood sugar stable. But what I've learned over time and I wore a continuous glucose monitor for a time because I was just curious, what kind of food? What was it doing? And for me, if I eat a fat first and then protein and then a carb, my blood pressure stays so, so stable. So if I want that, there's one of my favorite restaurants they make popovers and I'm like I got to have my popover.

Rachaele:

I'm going to take my binder after, but I want my popover. But if the meal always starts with, they have little chickpeas and a nice olive oil who knows, maybe it's a poof oil, I don't know but it tastes good. So that little bit of oil, the fiber, the carb, and I noticed in that meal my blood sugar stays completely stable even though I had carb. But I had the right balance of nutrients. So when we try to take away one of these macro nutrients our body can really get out of it. But there's a bioindividuality Based on my genetics. I can eat, I'm supposed to eat a nice, a third, a third, a third of protein, carbs and fat.

Rachaele:

Some other people, like certain blood types, like type A they tend to do that can do better on a vegetarian type diet, whereas type O tends to need again, these are major generalizations. Again, everybody is different, but in general type O can handle more protein. So again, what what Mackenzie does in her practice is is taking that person. There are no tried and true rules, right, you have to look at the person's individuality. And so, as Mackenzie said, she uses blood tests. But the more important thing is the muscle testing which we've had people on the show before.

Rachaele:

So tell us a little bit about how do you understand? How do you tap into somebody's bioindividuality when?

Makenzie:

you're working with someone, yeah. So I predominantly use nutritional response testing in my practice. That's kind of the basis of everything. That's where pretty much everybody starts, and the reason being is because now, I love nutrition and nutrition is the foundation of everything, and if you've got a poor diet, you you can't out supplement a bad diet. So I most definitely integrate nutrition coaching into my practice alongside the nutrition response testing, which is my form of muscle testing.

Makenzie:

But what I do and what I teach people is if sensitivities come up for them. So I have these different stressor kits that I use, that I place on the body and, depending upon which organ or system is experiencing some level of stress, I help them to identify what that is. Is it a food challenge? Is there an underlying immune challenge? So some type of an infection that's lingering? Is there a heavy metal load? Is there chemical exposure that's, you know, impairing the function of this organ or system? Is it potentially scars? Scars are on your skin and your skin is your largest organ. So if you've got scars that may be healed on the surface but they didn't energetically heal properly, that's going to interfere with the function of certain organs. I specifically see that when it is on a meridian line, so it's on the exact same side or within line of a particular organ. That's where it's usually affecting it. So if a food sensitivity comes up, what I do is I tell people if you don't want to completely eliminate it for a small period of time while we're working on clearing these infections and toxins, so your body can better tolerate these foods at least rotate it once every four days. The rule of thumb with sensitivities is, because they are a delayed response by the immune system, that you should only incorporate it once every four days in order for your immune system to not respond to it as much.

Makenzie:

The other piece that I tell people is a lot of practitioners are going around and saying you got to find what your balance is. I try not to use the word balance with my clients for this very reason. There's no such thing. Balance is an illusion. We're kind of always teeter-tottering on the scale of figuring out what's balance look like for us in our lives. But we're also evolving and changing every day, so that balance that was there yesterday might look a little different today. So it's somewhat of an illusion.

Makenzie:

So the term that I prefer to use with my clients is let's figure out what your threshold is. So you're showing up for a maybe it's an egg sensitivity. I see this a lot with underlying viral infections or underlying bacterial infections. Eggs are disrupting the function of that organ. So let's figure out what your threshold is. So I simply ask the body, using muscle testing, how many eggs can this person have without contributing to the underlying infection? Is it once a week? Because it's twice a week. How many eggs in total? Can they have two eggs a week? Can they have three eggs a week safely? Can they have four eggs a week safely? What is their threshold before it becomes a point where it adds to that toxin load for them and then that's that tipping point and makes it more difficult for that infection to clear. That's kind of how I work with people and when it comes to food sensitivities or intolerances, it's really figuring out what that threshold is.

Rachaele:

And then the one thing you didn't mention that's a big one is the emotional. That's a tricky one, that's a whole podcasting of itself, but but you do that is also a component, right, because we know our thoughts make proteins and those proteins affect the cell level. So so it's not just sometimes we can quote, unquote, fix everything we're doing. I've suffered this for many times. I feel like I'm doing everything right. Why do I still not yet? Why am I still a lot better? And that's when I learned about the whole energy medicine, the emotional component, and that's really crucial too. So if you reach a point where you feel that have that same kind of feeling, I feel like I'm doing it right, but I still can't. We've got to tap into the emotional, because that underlines that affects the immune system, the nervous system, the nervous system, like. So when you do your your response, nutrition response, testing, you first are looking at the nervous system. Yes, yeah, why is that? Why do you have?

Makenzie:

the system. That's the tone for everything that is in the driver's seat, for every function of every organ, of every process in the body. So you have your autonomic nervous system, which is basically your body's automatic response to things, and you have your parasympathetic state in your sympathetic state. So your sympathetic is where we're both at right now. We're awake, we're alert, we're talking, we're having a conversation. That is known as your fight-or-flight response. That is when we are awake. That is kind of your gas pedal. When then you also have your parasympathetic. So your parasympathetic is your rest in your digest. That's where you're supposed to be sleeping. Sleeping is where the healing happens. So your parasympathetic state is kind of your your break.

Makenzie:

What can happen is sometimes those environmental stressors we were just talking about whether it's an energetic component to it or it's a physical environmental toxin can disrupt the autonomic nervous system. I see people, notoriously, who are night owls, have insomnia and they're like I can't sleep. I'm awake all night long and then I'm asleep during the day. That's something that we called switch. So their parasympathetic state is living in their sympathetic and vice versa. Their body, their nervous system is essentially confused, so that's why it's doing that. So you have to figure out well, what's driving that. Is there an emotional piece like we talked about? Is there an environmental piece that's contributing to this and then got to work to clear that out first. If you don't work on the nervous system health first, no matter what supplement, no matter what good food you throw at your body, your body is going to have no idea what the hell to do with that. So a lot of the times I know we talked about earlier the person with the cholesterol medication they're not responding to it. A lot of the times it is underlying toxins. However, it can also be that their nervous system is out of whack, so they're taking these medications and the body is going well. This is great, but I don't know what to do with it. So you need to get that nervous system health in line first.

Makenzie:

I one of the prime things that I see too, is people who will come to me and say well, I've been really trying hard to to meditate, do breath work, all these relaxation techniques, but I just can't do it. I can't get my mind to settle. And then you'll hear other people say well, that's why it's a practice, you have to just keep practicing. And now they're coming back to you and they're getting frustrated because they're like I'm practicing it's not working for me. My nervous system still feels through the roof, I have anxiety, I don't feel good.

Makenzie:

Well, let's check it out. Oh, it's because you have an underlying immune challenge that's disrupting the nervous system. So yeah, when you have something that's physically taxing the nervous system, it's gonna be really difficult to get your mind and body to sit there and relax. You got to remove that stressor first and then, once you do, you'll find that doing things like meditation or breath work is gonna come a lot easier to you, because the nervous system was just so stressed out that it didn't know what to do. It couldn't calm down. So once you remove that, that's gonna become a lot easier so I think this is another very, very key point.

Rachaele:

So rewind, listen to that again, okay, because we often tell people just just stress less, go take a hike and breathe right. That's the easiest way to get into parasympathetic. Breathe through your nose. I tell patients this all the time do vagal nerve exercises.

Rachaele:

But, as Mackenzie said and this is why her type of muscle testing, this nutrition, is so vital she always she does this for me all the time always test my nervous system first because, again, as she said, very important take home point no matter what diet or what supplement you're taking, if your nervous system can't interpret it, can't understand what you the input coming into the body, it doesn't matter.

Rachaele:

You could eat all the cheeseburgers you want. So it's really, really important that that nervous system that we tap into that nervous system get that functioning properly and then everything else that you do starts working right. So, like I said before, I want to feel like I'm doing everything right. Well, my nervous system was a mess. I couldn't. I like again try. I could never meditate, can ever do those kind of things, because my nervous system was always jacked up. So so Mackenzie is able to say okay, here's what we need to calm your nervous system, and this is where you start first, and then we can talk about adding in some of these other supplements that may support your liver, and and and all that.

Rachaele:

But and again that's why I think when my eczema was originally healed was by removing parasites. I cleared those out and it's like everything else started to work better because I took away that physical stimulus that was messing everything up. So, instead of supplementing for my stress and supplementing for my liver and supplementing for detox, got to get rid of the infection, and then the body's like big sigh of relief, like okay, now we can go back to what we're supposed to be doing. Right. So that nervous system is is really really key. So thank you. So what else do you want to leave our audience with?

Makenzie:

this has been chock full of awesome information there's a lot more we could definitely talk about. So we definitely need a part two specifically for muscle testing infections, toxins, how we kind of deal with those, manage them, get rid of them, clear them. But if you're just getting started in all of this and you're wondering like, well, what do I do for myself? Where do I start? Some of the best books that I ever read and really got me started on my own journey was definitely deep nutrition by Dr Katherine shawna hand. That is probably my number one if you're interested in women's hormones. Definitely in the flow and it's FLO by Elisa Betty. She's going to tell you a lot of information about just like getting to know your cycle, what different nutrients feed and support different phases of your cycle.

Makenzie:

The big fat surprise. I believe it's by Nina Tolch, as I believe her last name is. I might butcher that. I'm sorry, nina, if you're out there. That's a great book about fats. It goes into the whole history of how the American Heart Association was developed. I mean Dr Carver mentioned Ansel Keys and blaming fat. The American Heart Association was developed shortly after that. Because of his research which, by the way, was very skewed, he actually didn't get the outcome that he was looking for talks about that in general Mills. You know how they have the AHA logo American Heart Association approved logo on there. Yeah, that's because general Mills funds them, so they get that lovely little stamp on there to make them seem like they're a great choice for your, your breakfast and for your kids. Those are some great resources. To start with. Last book would be how to heal your metabolism by Kate Deering. That's another great one.

Makenzie:

I will also leave saying I know that there is a lot of focus on evidence-based research. Everything has to be ever in space, all the research out there, right. Well, you also have your God given intuition. So if something doesn't feel right for for you know that that portion of your body isn't speaking to you just to disregard the research. It's speaking to you for a reason. So you can take that information from the evidence-based research and you can sift through it and you can decide for yourself whether that feels right or not. But at the end of the day, listen to that intuition because that is going to be your ultimate guide, the best way that you're going to support your body. That's how I work with my own clients. I take the research into consideration but honestly, what matters most is the clinical outcome of how my, my clients are feeling, and that's what's going to determine how I I help somebody, so that is what's most important.

Rachaele:

I love that. Too oftentimes somebody will come to me and they have a toothache and there's no obvious clinical science and I often say to the patient what do you think is wrong? Right, because I may have a million letters after my name and gone to all the schools and everything, but I'm not in your body. Yeah, and, and so it's. I think that's so important and we've really lost that. It's. Children are much more intuitive and then we get the life beat out of us and we become adults and we've forgotten about that intuition. But that's what started me on this whole journey, because deep in my mind, when that dermatologist gave me this cancer immune system altering drug, I was like no, wait a minute. I said my body is trying to tell me something. I just have to figure out what it is.

Rachaele:

So, gosh Mackenzie, this has been an amazing podcast. You've given us so many tidbits, but again, I love leaving with this, never, ever again. I know we go to doctors and all these experts, but you are your own best advocate and you are you what we want people to know. Doing this podcast is to provide you with all this information, but also so that you become your own doctor, right, so that you are able to tap into your innate wisdom and be well, because, like you said, the research every other day there's a new research out and if you want to prove one theory, you can find research to prove that theory. Yep, and so I agree.

Rachaele:

I, yes, the research is there and lovely, but there's so much nonsense that goes on with research today. So you know, using your, your own experience, your clients, what is working for them. Obviously, we don't want to do any harm and we are making sure that that's more, but that's again the innate wisdom of muscle testing. We're tapping into your body. What does your body want? Maybe the research says something else, but your body is telling us this. So, mackenzie, awesome love you to pieces.

Rachaele:

Tell us how we can find out more about you and how we can connect with you to again try to make the next step in our health awesome.

Makenzie:

Yeah, so for me. You can find me on Instagram. It's Mackenzie dot evangelista, so m a k e n z I e dot evangelista. That is like my personal account, but honestly, I just post the most story-wise on there. So if you're looking for activity, that's where I'm gonna be.

Makenzie:

I also have my practice harvest health and nutrition. I do have my website so you can go there. I also see people in person for nutrition response testing over at the recovery room that's in Pittsfield mass, so that's 32 bank row. So if you're looking to actually schedule an appointment with me, you can visit their website. You'll find my harvest, health and nutrition services there. But I would love to connect with each and every one of you who maybe have more questions or just want to finally get to the root of what's going on with your health. So thank you so much for having me dr cover. It means the world. This was amazing and there's definitely going to be a part two. Maybe we'll talk more about the different types of muscle techniques that are actually out there and what the differences are and what we typically find with muscle testing.

Rachaele:

I love that. Yeah, and diving deep more into how we start clearing some of these infections actually would be great. So we will link all that information in at the in the podcast notes, all the books that Mackenzie mentioned, which are all really, really great. I love that you gave us those resources. So, everyone, I hope you enjoyed this episode and have a wonderful rest of the day. We'll catch you on the next episode.