Business Blasphemy

EP67: Mastering Your Voice: From Silence to Spotlight with Megan Hamilton

Sarah Khan Season 2 Episode 67

Do you dream of speaking but find it to be the HARDEST thing? 

Megan Hamilton of UBU Skills joins me on this week's episode to speak about speaking. Megan, an expert in speaking, visibility, and confidence coaching, dives deep into the art of self-assertion in the professional world. 

We explore everything from the historical silencing of women's voices to the fine points of personal branding in an epic journey through the cultural forces that influence our vocal empowerment. We dissect generational silence, confront internalized misogyny, and celebrate the freedom of aligning your true self with your business identity.

Megan and I share transformative stories of moving from timid silence to confident expression. We discuss the challenges of public speaking versus theatrical performance, covering everything from memorization and inclusivity to delivering an authentic message. This isn't just a conversation; it's a practical guide packed with anecdotes, strategies, and a heartfelt commitment to growth.

Throughout the episode, we reveal the deep link between personal development and authentic entrepreneurship. By blending personal stories with actionable advice, we highlight the journey for those looking to elevate their presence, whether at work or on influential stages like TEDx. We also tackle online visibility and the complexities of cancel culture, sharing insights on staying grounded and resilient.

This episode is more than just insight—it's your companion for stepping into the spotlight and creating a lasting legacy of visibility.

Guest Bio:
Megan is a speaking, visibility and confidence coach for women, non-binary folks and all queer people.

Connect with Megan:
Find Megan as @ubuskills everywhere and at her website www.ubuskills.com

Download free speaking resources at www.ubuskills.com/tools

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The Business Blasphemy Podcast is sponsored by Corporate Rehab® Strategic Consulting.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Business Blasphemy Podcast, where we question the sacred truths of the online business space and the reverence with which they're held. I'm your host, sarah Khan speaker, strategic consultant and BS busting badass. Join me each week as we challenge the norms, trends and overall bullshit status quo of entrepreneurship to uncover what it really takes to build the business that you want to build in a way that honors you, your life and your vision for what's possible, and maybe piss off a few gurus along the way. So if you're ready to commit business blasphemy, let's do it. Hello, hello blasphemers, welcome back. We actually started this podcast a half hour ago. We did. I have one of my dear friends on today. Megan Hamilton is here. Megan is a speaking visibility and confidence coach for women, non-binary folks and all queer people. She is here. We're going to talk about all things visibility. Hi, megan.

Speaker 2:

Hi Sarah.

Speaker 1:

We started recording. No, we didn't start recording, but we started talking and it just we went off on all sorts of tangents and stuff. And this is why I love I love having my friends on the podcast, because it gives me an excuse to talk to them, you know, like intentionally, and actually have like a face-to-face conversation. But also, my friends are all really smart and wonderful people and they have a lot of knowledge to impart, and so that's why Megan is here today. Megan, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about how you support your clients and the work that you do with all the wonderful people you work with.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you. So yeah, I'm a speaking visibility and confidence coach and I support people in a lot of different ways. So sometimes I work with folks who have a hard time even presenting like to their office mates if they've got to present some, you know, researcher findings just generally have a hard time speaking up in meetings, have a hard time advocating, asking for what they want boundaries, stuff like that. And then on the other side of it, I work with highly visible people who are quite skilled in speaking, who have given talks to thousands of people who've been on the media major media, have been in politics and small business owners, certainly to learn how to be great advocates for their business, great figureheads for their business, because you and I both know and we've talked about this before that, like people want to buy from people that they connect with and resonate with, right, and so if you can figure out how to get past your fears of being visible, then you know often that will really increase your ability to grow your business. The funny thing is that I use the same training for everybody and it's been the same for 10 years and that training is compiled from my classical theater background. I went to Toronto Metropolitan University for theater. Along with you know, I've been on stages now for over 30 years, whether as an actor or a musician. I've toured across Canada, I've toured into the United States, so I know a thing or two about being on stage and what it feels like as somebody who has a lot of anxiety, experienced a lot of self-doubt. So the training piece stays the same what changes is the approach? And it really does end up being very specific to each person and what they need. And that's where the coaching part comes in. Right, it's different than the training. Like, my favorite directors were always people who used different approaches with different actors. Right, because they would see okay, this person needs somebody to tell them what to do. This person wants to have some flexibility to like figure it out for themselves. And the director you know you have to build trust and you have to really know behavior so that you can see what this person might need and how you can best support them. And that's a conversation too. Right, because sometimes people are like I really would like this instead and you're like okay, fine, because it's not my job to tell people what to do. It's not my job to have people meet my expectations. My job as a coach is to help people reach the goals that they set for themselves, regardless of how I feel about those goals. Right, like I might offer suggestions, but coaching is really about, like, helping people reach what they want to be doing.

Speaker 2:

So I use shadow work, which is a way of tapping into your psyche and figuring out where some of your fears are actually coming from right Something I've been traditionally too afraid to do. Coming from right, something I've been traditionally too afraid to do. Yeah, and like you're not alone, yeah, and me too. I mean, I didn't even, I wouldn't have even thought about using that with clients, but I had this fairly transformational experience practicing shadow work. And then one day I was working with a client and she, you know, at the time she had to speak regularly and it was so upsetting for her constantly, Like she gave presentations all the time, it was so difficult for her that she was taking beta blockers every time she had to give a presentation and that's not good for you.

Speaker 2:

No, I mean, she'd been doing this for years and so we just started chatting and we started talking about things and I was like you know, is there, is there cause, I know, for me, like I would have, I have a few shitty ex-boyfriends who live in my head and they don't not really anymore. They, they they've been kicked out. But like with their negative talk, yeah, she had had this ex-boyfriend who had told her that she sounded stupid and that her voice was too high, and that clicked and connected and took her forward, and so I mean we'd love to hear that, like once she figured that out, she never had to take a beta blocker again. And that is absolutely not what happened, right, but at least she knew what she was dealing with at that point.

Speaker 1:

You got her started on the path.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yes, exactly. And so the deal with shadow work is, once you actually know what you're dealing with, you can deal with it. But when we let our fears run amok in our psyche without actually examining them, without being honest with ourselves or compassionate with ourselves, which is really what it boils down to we can't really manage our fears. Compassionate with ourselves, which is really what it boils down to we can't really manage our fears. All we can do is sort of mask them or like push past them. But once we actually know what they are, it's a game changer in terms of your ability to find compassion for yourself, which then allows you to find compassion for others, and it just lets you be more vulnerable and it lets you explore and it lets you try things that up until that point you couldn't try. Yeah, does that answer your question? No, it does.

Speaker 1:

I think when you hear that somebody is like a speaking coach, for example, which is a very simplistic way of putting what you do, they have a very specific understanding or context of that, and the way you do the work is so different that I'm really glad that you highlighted it. And I mean, you work with people from all walks of life, including and hopefully you're okay with me sharing this but you also work with TED speakers and aspiring TED speakers. So we're looking at people who are not just speaking, maybe, in the workplace, but we're talking about people who are speaking for a living, and all those people require a very different touch, and you're just so adept at that.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I know I'm in your boxers all the time picking your brain and you have such a wonderful and gentle but firm way of redirecting me back to like what is it that you're actually trying to say? What do you want to? You know, injecting personality back into what I'm doing. And it's so funny because I grew up in a very I wouldn't say conservative household in the sense of, like you know, we were conservative and traditional, we were my parents are very liberal, but there was also still that edge of like you don't want to speak up, you don't want to be too visible, only speak when you're spoken to, don't draw attention to yourself, don't laugh so loud, all of those things. And that's always played kind of a.

Speaker 1:

I've had this dueling kind of battle in my head because I'm a naturally very loud, very gregarious, very assertive, and that was something that I had suppressed for a long time. And the weird thing is I loved public speaking and so my public speaking was always very buttoned up, very professional, and I use professional air quotes, until I started injecting personality back into it and then I saw everything that I did just kind of went complete 180. Everything just started to click, everything started to feel easier. But it's that embracing of the personality which was the hardest part, and it's something I still struggle with. Like I've built my entire brand now on my personality and people love it.

Speaker 1:

And I still, on a daily basis, struggle with it. And so, when you're working with speakers, when you're working with people who want to be more visible, even if it's not speaking, if it's just, I want to be more visible in my business or in my life, or I just want to speak up more, I guess two questions. Number one what are they most afraid of? And number two why is it so hard for so many people to just let their personality shine through?

Speaker 2:

There's so many different answers for so many different people, but I think you really hit it in a couple of ways when you talked about the expectations of your behavior, or behavior that was uncomfortable for people, or to ABC. And so we learn that affection is not a given. We have to modify ourselves in order to fit into, because the first people who are meant to give us affection are our parents, and they are humans and people who are extra loud. Sometimes it is grating and all of it sort of makes sense. But you know, we learn that we have to modify ourselves in order to fit in. Now, certainly that's not all bad, right, like we have to know that if there's certain behaviors that we have, it might affect other people, and we do need to be aware of that. And, especially as parents, we have to know that the stuff we tell our kids, like they're just always vying for our attention and our affection, and so if we, you know, force them to modify themselves in order to earn those things, then that sticks with them as behavior. And and this is really important, especially for women and non-binary folks there is a lineage we're talking thousands of years, especially in the Western world, of our voices being disparaged. So I don't know if you've read the book Women in Power by Mary Beard and I literally talk about this on every single podcast, and I don't know what number I'm at now, but I bet it's I don't know 60.

Speaker 2:

Women in Power Mary Beard talks. She's a historian, she's amazing. I love her so much. She talks about how, in the early days of the forum, right when public speaking became like a thing, they would carve things in stone. Right, they had the stone tablets. It was not easy to mark history, so we have to keep this in mind In the rules of the forum.

Speaker 2:

Women were not allowed, and this is carved in stone. Women's voices are screechy. Women are not as intelligent as men oh my, we're not. As like gregarious was a word you used, charming, like we just don't have it. Why women are not allowed? Oh my gosh. So when you think to yourself I'm battling minimum 2000 years of this being something that has been a thing, it's not just you who's internalized that. It's part of our culture. It's also the people who are going to that. It's part of our culture. It's also the people who are going to be watching you, whether they're men, women or non-binary folks. Right, like it's part of our culture. So you know, obviously we have been evolving and yet you know that is still the case for lots of people, like I don't know if you've ever been the only woman to walk into a room full of dudes, but oh yeah, that was my entire corporate career.

Speaker 2:

Right, exactly, you feel that often, right, and you, and probably the first thing you say to yourself is okay, sarah, okay, come on now. Come on, you're just overreacting. Come on now that this cannot be the thing. They don't all think. You're an idiot.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean I. I I mean I still experience that there are certain people in my life that if I bring up, you know, women are marginalized, women are historically told to be quiet like the patriarchy. When I bring it up, there are certain individuals who I love and adore in my life, male individuals, who will tell me that I'm just being paranoid or that it's not real or whatever. And they will say that and it's not because they're intentionally trying to gaslight me, it's because they truly believe that that's, that can't possibly be how the world is. You feminists are just crazy and you're imagining things.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of experiences, so how could it possibly exist?

Speaker 1:

exactly, and I want to commit felonies on the daily as a result. I don't, because I don't have enough bail money and it's just not worth it.

Speaker 2:

No, and let's spend our money on other fun things. So you're dealing with that, okay. Second, if you think again, specifically about women and non-binary folks, witch hunts were real.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

They burned strong women and so your mothers and grandmothers and descendants wanted to protect you. So they would tell you to keep your voice down, they would tell you to obey, they would tell you to acquiesce to keep you safe. They knew why they were doing that and that behavior then goes down the line and traditionally women and non-binary folks experience more violence and like, there's so many reasons and so like, why is it hard for us to speak up? That's why there's like in our genes there's the threat of violence, there's the idea that we're not smart enough. There's society. There's culture. There's society. There's culture. There's religion.

Speaker 2:

There's, you know, like, go through all of the different facets of communities and how we experience things and it sucks to be made fun of or teased or ignored or look at people who are looking at you like you're bananas, who are looking at you like you're bananas, and there's that fear that when you get up and say your opinion, that somebody is going to feel that way. That's a real fear. That's a valid fear and once you know about it and work through it, you can work past it. But, like, when it's hard for people to speak up, those are the reasons. They're not just like you know you're like weak. Those are the reasons. They're not just like you know you're, you're like weak. That's not it. It's legit shit that you got to go through in order to get through the other side. I can see your wheels turning.

Speaker 1:

I mean, there's so much here, there's so much here. So if we are genetically predisposed to taking the easy route, which is being quiet, making yourself small, I mean, and having been sort of on both sides of that experience now of because I will fully hold my hand up and say, until I started doing the work, I would be in groups where if a woman, let's say someone, okay, the facilitator says let's go around the room and introduce ourselves, I was the woman who would take 15 seconds to do it, because I didn't want to take up too much time, I didn't want to irritate people, I didn't want to suck all the air out of the room and I would never do it in a way that felt complete to me, because I don't want to speak. Was it Melman? Was that his name in the movie Office Space? I don't know if you ever saw it with the guy with a stapler.

Speaker 2:

That's what comes to mind for me.

Speaker 1:

Melman, melvin, I can't remember, but anyway, it's this feeling of I'm just going to speak very quietly and very quickly and I boop there I am, and when other women would take their time and be relaxed and say whatever they wanted to say, I would feel a real, it would trigger the shit out of me and I would hate those women. That's a very strong word. I'm very aware of that. That's a very strong word. I'm very aware of that. But I would hate those women and I always interpreted whatever feeling was coming up as hate, because they were breaking the rules, they were not being considerate of other people, they were sucking the air out of the room, they were not giving other people an opportunity.

Speaker 1:

If we only had a half an hour, I was watching the clock, not the facilitator watching the clock. I was watching the clock because how dare they take up so much time when there's 20 other women to get through? And when I started doing the work, I realized I didn't hate them. I was jealous.

Speaker 1:

I so intensely wanted to be like them, to take my time, to speak my truth, to say whatever I wanted to say, and if you don't want to hear it, you can leave the room, but I'm going to take my time with it and that has been such a struggle and I see it in so many entrepreneurs like women entrepreneurs to this day and women, non-binary folk, people from marginalized communities, people who historically have never been given the stage, never been given the light, the microphone, even when they have these incredibly powerful personalities and they have such important things to say.

Speaker 1:

So, when you've got all of that vying for your attention in the back of your head, what are some small steps, what are some things you can do to make it easier? Because it feels like if you're having to battle all of this internalized misogyny and patriarchy and just socialization and just your own sort of upbringing and, depending on you know what the cultures and the traditions you were born into, how do you start overcoming that Like? What are some steps you can take to maybe realize or become more aware of where your trigger points are than actually moving past them, so that you can start to speak up a little bit more?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you for that great question. I always say to folks you're not gonna undo patriarchy with your quarterly stats, right? You walk in that room and you're just like oh crap. And you think to yourself, how can I get them to listen to me? Right, fuck that, you just show up and do your stuff, do your job, right, we don't worry about them. I mean the people who are just obviously like, not here for you, not your people, let them be whatever they're going to be. Speak to the people who you do resonate with and move forward and and, and you know, commit to being the best you and not letting whatever vibes are in the room diminish your ability to shine. So that's the first thing, you know. I say to folks and then, like, what do we do? You are up against that Absolutely, and knowing that is really important so that you're not blaming yourself for some kind of feelings that you're feeling, that you're actually feeling and gaslighting yourself into thinking that you're not feeling those feelings or that they're not valid.

Speaker 2:

Number one. Number two get a set of skills that you can rely on, and so earlier I talked about my training. It's the same. It's a four-part system. It focuses on four different areas to get good in so that you always know what to do, especially if things go off the rails. And so I'll outline it super quick Alexander technique. The second one is breathing using controlled breath to stay calm and deep breath to support a strong voice. The third one is speaking using your optimum pitch. And the fourth one is text mapping, using a special set of skills to be able to read in front of a group without sounding like a robot and still being able to connect with folks right, sounding like a robot and still being able to connect with folks right. Once you have those skills, when things go off the rails which they will you always go back to number one, go back into your body, recarry your body using Alexander technique, take your deep and controlled breath to let your brain know that you're not in danger, use your powerful voice, your resonant voice, and then go back to you know the reading of the script and you know for the record.

Speaker 2:

I have this debate with people every time I give one of my group workshops. So many people prefer point form notes. I am team. Write it all out ahead of time, mark it up and learn how to read it, because people will say I don't want learn how to read it, because people will say I don't want to sound like a robot and I'll say that's because you don't know how to read well. So here's how to read well. Practice this when you write out your script ahead of time, word for word, using the exact phrasing that really articulately says what you want to say. Where you have a chance to edit, where you have a chance to think and chew through and really, really work on that means that you're showing up with a polished presentation. I see folks with point form notes.

Speaker 2:

Now, some people are really excellent speakers and once you get to that level, like go do whatever you want, like you're good, like Obama, take your point form notes, that's okay, I'm okay with you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but like regular folks, you and me guess what? You're getting up in front of a group of people, which is going to be daunting. So naturally your brain will have a little bit of stress which necessarily stops you from being access, accessing the full, your full brain. Right, like your memory is impaired, you know, as soon as the stress goes up, like you can't access certain thoughts, you forget things. So you're asking yourself to put yourself in a stressful situation and create a fucking fabulous first draft straight out, straight out of the gates and people are like oh, the audience laughed. Okay, that's you enjoying relating with the audience. But guess what? Your presentation was 20 minutes longer than it needed to be and you went off on 50 tangents that nobody cared about and their takeaway might be oh, a couple of good jokes, but are they actually leaving with the bulk of the important thing that you wanted them to remember?

Speaker 1:

That is so. Yeah, that's such a good point, and so when you know how to read properly.

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry, I'm using these like absolute words. I'll quickly just talk about this, because I think this is the key part of text mapping Something called think, breathe, speak, which is where you read ahead three to seven words before you say them out loud. So you're letting your, your eyes are like seeing them, your brain is absorbing them as you're breathing and then you're breathing them out through your speaking and you're looking ahead to the next three to seven words. What that? It's like buffering in Netflix.

Speaker 2:

What that does is it gives your memory a bank of a few words that you can look up and look out to the audience and deliver those words and then go back to your script and that's where the connection happens so that you can have the eye contact with people. You can have that looking at you. Looking at you, you get to see my face, which is what people want to see and then you go back to your words and pick up the next bit, I mean, and you can memorize if you're good at that. But more and more people are not being able to memorize and I think that has a lot to do with screen time, with trauma from the pandemic.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I was going to ask you about memorization because my minor was in theater. One of my minors was in theater. I don't think I knew that Really. No.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, I was a theater child. I love theater. I just I was never a theater kid. It was one of those. It was a weird sort of thing. I didn't hang out with the theater kids, but I love theater. So memorization was a really big part of what I had to do, obviously, and I always like, even now, if I'm doing a solo podcast episode or if I'm doing a speaking thing, like I write out word for word because I can't do the point form, for exactly the reason you said, I will go off on tangents.

Speaker 1:

I will forget things and I'm a really good writer, so I know that the best ideas are going to come from the written word. But yeah, you're absolutely right, the pandemic. I got COVID for the first time in January, end of January, early February.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you, really, that was that was brutal, that was bad timing.

Speaker 1:

It was bad timing. I missed my trip that I was looking forward to. But I've just been diagnosed with long COVID, which we haven't had a chance to talk about, and the brain fog is absolutely insane, the fatigue is insane.

Speaker 1:

So I'm going off on tangents because I haven't written anything down. I had a brain injury in 2016. Is that right? That is right. And the brain fog feels very much like that, like the aftermath of that, add to that perimenopause which we were talking about before the podcast. I don't know where this is going, but there's a point I'll come around to it at some point. So, when it comes to memorization, I found it fascinating that you said that we are having more trouble doing that for a start.

Speaker 1:

That's the first thing I want to say. When I taught business presentations at college, we did encourage them to use point form, because the very reason that you said right that if you read word for word, it's going to sound very robotic, I guess. What I'm trying to ask is isn't that what the majority of really really good presenters do, though, is memorize their script, but learn to read it without having to look at it, because when you think about actors and actresses and this is where the whole theater thing came from when we were in theater, we never had scripts on stage and is public speaking? Would it be wrong for me to compare public speaking to performing to a performer who has to memorize a script and go and then perform it on stage? You don't hear performers on stage sounding robotic or sounding like they're reading from a script, if they're a good performer, if they've rehearsed it and they've put their emotion into it and they've embodied the character, I guess. So where's the line, or is there a line, between speaking and performing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's really similar. And I mean, context is everything. It depends on what you're doing. Are you giving, like, a presentation to the 10 people at your work? Are you giving a TEDx talk? Are you giving a political speech, et cetera, et cetera. You're going to approach all of those things pretty differently. However, the basic for all of them is the same.

Speaker 2:

As I said, the same training, the same technique, and that does come from theater, because it is performance, and so back then we would say, oh my God, everyone needs to know this. Why are we only learning this in theater? School Like this is a skill that people should have. And so we're talking about memorization. Absolutely, if you are giving a TEDx talk, if you are giving an important speech and you have the time and the ability, because this is really important memorizing, I think, is always the best way. And you get to the point where you're so bored of the stupid speech, because that's when the magic happens, because that's when you've laid everything out, and then your brain starts to get creative, because your brain actually wants to be, doesn't want to be bored, so it's going to come up with weird ways of delivering stuff, and then you'll have those moments of oh my God, this is so different and it's going to really be impactful.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Now, memorization is not available to everybody. Brains who've experienced a lot of trauma find it very difficult to memorize. So in my role as the speaker advisor at the TEDx here at Queens University last year, it began I started advocating for my speakers who could not memorize. So you know, last year I worked with Michelle Chubb, who is an Indigenous activist, and she's Indigenous Baddie on Instagram.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I follow her on Instagram.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, she's from your neck of the woods. Oh, baddy on Instagram, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's from your neck of the woods. Oh yeah, she's from Winnipeg and she's amazing. And she was speaking to the Indian act and it was her first talk and she was. She couldn't memorize it.

Speaker 2:

And I said you know what? Like you're talking about traumatic things, you're talking about difficult things in your past. I don't think your brain is going to let you memorize it. So what about if we say, in order to be accessible, you need to have a podium? And she was like, yes, and so we got her a podium and I pitched it to them. I was like listen, this is an accessibility issue. And they were like, absolutely, so we got our podium. And then we also had a fellow with cerebral palsy and so he uses a speech to text device and so he wanted to speak certain lines and so he would speak them. But he also had his translator there who would help do the speech to text, and that was another.

Speaker 2:

You know, like, traditionally with a TED or a TEDx, you're supposed to be memorized and they're very sticky about it. But I feel really proud of our group for recognizing that that shuts out a lot of potential speakers that does yeah and so like, is it ideal to be memorized and really get clear and have had the time and the space to be able to practice? And like, do it really really well? Absolutely. But that kind of performance, for example, with theater, you've got three weeks of nothing else to do but getting ready for your play and you've got like you're doing it over and over again. You're doing it eight hours a day and you've got like you're doing it over and over again. You're doing it eight hours a day, sometimes even more.

Speaker 2:

Most of us don't have that kind of time and so you sort of work with, like okay, well, what do I have? What kind of time do I have? What kind of financial resources do I have? Can I work with a coach? Can I not work with a coach? What's the best I can do in this situation? And then just go with that and don't look back. Right, there is no point second guessing yourself, trying to like regretting certain things. Like you look at where you're at in your life and you make your decision, then you go forward and you just do the best damn job that you can do, knowing that, like this is what you had available to you.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I love that you're advocating for that, because that has been traditionally for me, particularly over the last four or five years. You know, a big fear because I have done public speaking, but since COVID, thankfully, all of my public speaking has been virtual. So I've taken the opportunity. I'm giving away a secret right now everybody, I've taken the opportunity to use like a teleprompt app on my screen because I will not remember, I can't memorize the way that I used to, and I love that you are sort of spearheading this movement of it is an accessibility issue. It's not that I don't have the time or the resources, like my brain literally doesn't hold onto things the way it used to. Yep, that's fantastic.

Speaker 2:

I also think it's a sign of the times. I think most of us concentration has.

Speaker 1:

The internet has, like generally affected concentration and focus and retention of information when I was teaching and my last year of teaching was 2020. So I would say maybe two, maybe a year or two before that, because I taught a communications class. I had to do stats, like I had to bring the stats to class all the time, and I remember the last set of stats that I brought said that our attention span is about seven seconds long, and last year just for shits and giggles I looked up an article again and it's three now, three to five seconds, and they're predicting that it's going to be like memory of a goldfish in the next five to ten years.

Speaker 2:

So not good.

Speaker 1:

And now with.

Speaker 2:

AI.

Speaker 1:

I read an article this morning I think it was about how AI is actually impacting people's ability to be creative and to remember things and to discern, because we're just shoving stuff into chat GPT and telling it to tell us what to say. Do you think? Write, speak, and it's a little bit terrifying.

Speaker 2:

And alternately. For other folks it's a game changer. It means they can show up at the table if they have disabilities or accessibility needs and their brain works differently. Ai means that they can participate.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, okay, I want to know more about your villain origin story, but I do have one other question that I wanted to ask about the speaking. What do you think is the biggest mistake people make when it comes to visibility as a whole.

Speaker 2:

So I think the biggest mistake and I think this because it is almost with every single person I see, mostly with small business owners, but pretty much everybody People say to me I'm trying to decide how I want to show up. They're like I'm trying to figure out what voice to use and, in marketing, speak totally. But a lot of folks want to develop a persona that they use for their business and I see it and most of us do it unconsciously and I always say the best, you is the actual you, because you know, if we're thinking in terms of visibility as entrepreneurs, it's the no trust and like factor. We're pretty good at sniffing out the something feels weird and performative or like I think you're trying to be something in your. It doesn't feel right, yeah. And it's also the hardest choice, because often showing up as yourself means that you are going to have to necessarily get comfortable with your insecurities. You're going to necessarily have to work through all that shadow shit in order to show up, and it doesn't. You know there's no end. It's not like you've arrived and you never have to like do any more work. However, you know people want to develop themselves as some kind of brand and again like it's a really nuanced thing because, of course, we're all brands.

Speaker 2:

However, the actual brand of you is not like okay, I'll give you some example. Like an example, I'm going to show up as Radio Megan. I know how to do it. I know how to make my voice sound like it. I know how to be absolutely high energy. Oh my God, I can't even. It just makes me feel so sick. However, I hopped on a podcast with somebody once and we were just chatting back and forth like this and all of a sudden, she pressed record and she was like welcome to the. And I was like I was just it's jarring, yes, and in her mind, this was the badass, energetic, confident person that she wanted to emulate. You cannot fake confidence. You just can't. Confidence is a result. There's no training in confidence. It is a result, and so the biggest mistake I see is wanting to do anything other than simply working on your inner shit and developing your skills to be able to be fully present as yourself.

Speaker 1:

I love that I will say honestly. I mean and like code switching aside because I'm not going to touch that but I remember being in the education space when I was teaching and I had brought all my corporate shit with me and I remember distinctly my director saying to me oh you know what, you're a completely different person once we get to know you. And I remember that very clearly, right, because I had my professional persona and then I was like Sarah, once I got comfortable with people. Fast forward a few years, and last year I remember someone saying to me you are exactly the same person behind the scenes as you are on social media and I will tell you. Well, actually you can guess which one felt better.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, and that's it. It's like not only is it going to be better, it is so exhausting.

Speaker 1:

Less bandwidth.

Speaker 2:

To wear a mask.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2:

Oh for sure. It's just so tiring to have all of these different personas. And so if you and the only reason we have them is because we don't think we're good enough, and so if you work on that part, the rest of it takes care of itself. Now, I am not saying that there is not like technique that you can employ. I'm not saying that there's not like training and skill and like practice. I'm not saying any of that. But I'm saying, if we're starting from somebody coming to me, going my voice is too high, I need to have a lower pitch, and I go for who, right, like you're going to do vocal damage, I can teach you how to use a resonant voice, and probably your pitches is higher than it naturally would be because we've been socialized to have higher pitches as women and non-binary folks.

Speaker 2:

However, you got to think about, like who you're doing this for, and I built my business around that because I, you know, up until that point, had thought I had to wear so many different hats, so many different personas. I had my work person. I had I didn't want work people to see my music account, my social accounts, like I just. And then all of a sudden I was just like no, if I'm going to be doing this, I don't want to pretend. I don't want to pretend that I don't do tarot. I don't want to pretend that I don't like play music. Sometimes you get the full me and it's going to turn away some people and that's fine. But like the thing that what it boils down to is the folks that I work with. There's no surprises.

Speaker 1:

They know what they're getting themselves into, right, and then I don't have to like pretend like I'm somebody that I'm not and this is such a beautiful segue into your villain origin story Like how, how did you become an entrepreneur and how has it really shaped who you've become?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, you probably know this, like, the thing they don't tell you is how much inner growth has to happen for outer growth to happen. It's I think it's the most. It's the profession. Like you know, entrepreneurship requires the most amount of inner work. Now, if you don't want to be a shitty person and you and I've had so many conversations about bad business practice and I don't want any of that so if you know, considering that you want to be a good person, you don't want to be screwing people over, that you want to have a business that you feel good about at the end of the day, right, those things have to be in place for all of this to work.

Speaker 2:

I knew that I wanted to be myself because for most of my life, you know, I was the bullied kid. I had pretty severe anxiety. I had a very warped sense of self. That's why I got into theater. I found community, I found I had an ability to play with different personas, felt very unliked for a good part of my life, and so once I started really liking myself, I felt ready to be able to take on entrepreneurship.

Speaker 2:

But I've always been an entrepreneur. I mean I was an actor around the time I finished theater school and then I was a producer like all of these are small businesses, right. Then I was also a playwright and then a musician I mean, that's a business. I was an independent grant writer, I was an office manager. Anyway, I was always an entrepreneur. I always had a side business. But when I started coaching law students in 2014. I helped their performances they were doing these competitions and then I really loved it and people found out about that and so I get hired to do like wedding speeches or some of the other fun stuff I did. Somebody had to give like an acceptance speech. Like there was just people, would you know? Word of mouth happened. I wasn't charging very much at the time. I remember asking for $50 an hour and somebody was like, yeah, that's great, and I was like $50 an hour.

Speaker 1:

I was like that's amazing, that's more than I made teaching, that was amazing.

Speaker 2:

Oh my God. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I did teach. I was teaching at the college for a few years too. Holy moly, I loved that job, but, man, was it a lot of work. So I was starting to really not like my job and I realized that this is the direction I wanted to go, and in 2018, I soft launch UBU skills with the idea that I was going to give myself to like 2020, to get it going and leave my job, and so I signed up for Jenny Shee's Make it Work Online program, which is like a business building. I've talked to you about this before because it's something I think that we don't. You know, she's not doing it anymore, and I see a lot of small business owners who don't have the basics and they don't even know what the basics are.

Speaker 1:

Stay tuned.

Speaker 2:

Things are coming Mystery. So, anyway, I was doing that to get my business into like the basics and get it into good shape, and the idea was that I was going to leave my job at that point in April 2020. I was working full-time, I had been given this job at the college, I was working there part-time, I had clients, I was doing music and I was taking this make it work online program, which was pretty intense. And then the pandemic hit and it felt like so irresponsible to leave a cushy job when all of this uncertainty was happening. So, long story short, they were going to have to rejig my job because I was the events coordinator and there was no events, it was. It was, you know, the pandemic, and I'll just say that I realized the universe was forcing my hand and going no, no, no, no, you're not doing this, you are. You did not come this far to stop here, and so I quit, and then I've been full time ever since.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I think a lot of people the pandemic forced their hand and made them realize what was most important.

Speaker 2:

I think that, especially over the last five years, globally we are really learning a lot. Our eyes are being opened, forced open, and a lot of people are still ignoring what's clear to me, probably to you, and I think that you know we're in a very unique time to change the world by developing new systems and new practices and with this exposed truth being like, okay, well, we can't do this anymore. Obviously, look at what happens. This is the outcome. And so you know my sort of like fuel, my inner fuel, is if I can give folks tools and coaching that they need to be able to come forward with these fresh, new, human-centered, centered, positive, fully awake ideas to stop this legacy of shit that is imploding on itself, then I feel fucking great about that, and that's like my my little, you know, lace in the universe is like supporting folks with these big, incredible ideas so that they can get traction and they can learn how to like get ahead of it and feel comfortable talking about it, so that the world can change.

Speaker 1:

So for those change makers, last little tip like what's one small or impactful thing someone can do right now to get started on being more visible?

Speaker 2:

So when I talk about building your visibility, I talk about your visibility ladder. Everybody's starting on a different place, right? Your comfort levels are going to be different than somebody else's. So you start with this ladder and you know, for folks who really like to are tangible, like you can draw this ladder and draw some rungs. So what's the bottom rung? That's where you're at. What's the top one? That's your next goal. What are the steps rung? That's where you're at. What's the top one? That's your next goal. What are the steps right? So some people call this reverse engineering. Like my old business coach taught the idea of reverse engineering to me of like, if this, then this right, and so like you work your way down.

Speaker 2:

For some people, if visibility is just terrifying in general, make a commitment to yourself to start raising your hand at the office meeting, to start to ask your direct report for a monthly meeting to talk about things, to find ways, ask questions, give ideas. Just make a commitment of participating. For other people it's they're already really good at that. Maybe they're well-liked, they're sort of seen as really confident and outgoing and they've got this idea for a TEDx talk and they're like, oh, one day. One day it's like okay, apply to 10, find 10 and apply to them. Right, you can use.

Speaker 2:

You know, every single TEDx has a different layer to it. They're looking for different things, but you can usually find some that like where your idea will be a great addition, and so just start getting the word out. That way, for some folks, for entrepreneurs or small business owners, it's go to the networking meeting and decide to make three coffee dates with people that you don't know. It's like I don't know what you. I go to networking meetings, I stay with the people I know and I have a good time.

Speaker 1:

Yep, I think most people do that. Like that's one of the reasons why people really suck at networking meetings and why most people don't go.

Speaker 2:

Yep, but if you're intentional about it and you're like okay, well, I can hang out with my friends, but I'm also going to introduce myself to three new people and see if they'd be open to having a coffee chat with me. Right, really, it's just intentionality. It's not letting the stream carry you through life so that five years down the road you're like ah shit, I didn't. And the thing is, you also have to embrace the discomfort that comes from changing your routines and changing your like. Being highly visible, it can be. It can feel very like. Oh, my goodness, right, like, if you've ever had a tweet go viral, if you've ever had like whatever the case, like for some, if that's the first time that's happened to you you cause, your brain just is like what's going to happen. Because your brain just is like what's going to happen tomorrow, am I going to be a different person? Is every single news outlet in Canada going to be reaching out to me wanting to talk to me about this tweet? What's my life going to be like? And I say that jokingly, but I've literally had those thoughts before and, more often than not, not very much.

Speaker 2:

Much happens, but you get more and more comfortable with more and more people having eyes on you, and a great way to do it, especially as an entrepreneur, is just like to start making reels. Just start putting them out there with your thoughts and your ideas, and you need to prove to yourself that people are not going to jump all over you and be shitty to you. That your aunt martha, who's also following you on Instagram, she might say to your other aunt, who does she think she is? Oh, she's an entrepreneur now, is she? Yeah, fuck that aunt. What kind of aunt is going to say that? Right, yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you also have to get really clear about being okay with people not liking you or recognizing you or thinking that you're doing something like those people aren't your people anyway, and and embodying that is really hard, but anyway. So the visibility ladder is start with where you're at, look at where you want to go and then what are the steps to get there. And you know, when you break it down like that, you might actually have seven ladders, like the next goal that makes the most sense might be like not the actual biggest goal that you had. So, let's say, you want to talk at the Sky Dome. That's probably going to be like several ladders and you just want to keep reaching towards that top rung of whatever that ladder is. And once you've hit that goal, then you acclimate to that level of visibility, and then you move, you keep moving forward.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because there's so many people who reach a goal and don't give themselves time to actually embody the goal and acknowledge the fact that they made it. They just move right on to the next one. So that's fantastic, and I have never had anything go viral the closest I ever came and this is so timely because the anniversary of it was yesterday but I didn't post about it like I do every year, because I'm not sure if we're allowed to like him anymore based on things that are going on in the world and cancel culture. I don't have the bandwidth for the nonsense.

Speaker 1:

Mark Hamill, when I was active on Twitter six years ago seven years ago retweeted my tweet about him and responded to it. So, considering the fact that he had like a million followers at the time, wait, why can't we like Mark Hamill anymore? I don't know, I'm not even going to get into it, but like I grew up with Star Wars, that was like my comfort movie. So Luke Skywalker is a big deal. He responded to it and retweeted it. And the sheer number like I woke up the next morning to over 10,000 responses that's viral. But it wasn't like me, it was his retweet of my thing. And it's such an interesting case study because when I went in and started looking at it, it wasn't people commenting on it, it was people trying to ride the wave, so I had quote unquote-.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, like, here's my band camp link.

Speaker 1:

Well, yeah, but it was like, oh, I can make up words too. I don't know if I made up the word, but the word I had used was I had called him the king of all things, shenanigany, and he loved it and he retweeted it, and so now I've got like 10,000 people going yeah, I can make up words too. What about this word? What about this word? And it was hilarious because it was like well, what about?

Speaker 1:

me, Me too me too, yeah, but the odd comment that came through that was disparaging, that was just rude. It is a real fear and I can totally understand, but keeping your eye on the prize super important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean. The other thing is truly cancel. Culture exists and when people get canceled, it is nothing you've ever experienced before, nothing that the regular folks like us have. And I don't want to get into it either because you know what, but I worked with somebody who was being canceled and it's scary, it feels violent, it is pervasive. It's like you literally can't go on social media.

Speaker 2:

You are getting hounded constantly with horrible things in your DMs sent to anybody who's working with you that people find out about. It is nuts and I think that a lot of us have that fear that that's going to happen to us Generally, unless we are highly visible people that you know. It might happen on a smaller scale, but that kind of canceling is likely not going to happen to you and we get afraid of that. Or we think that, like one negative remark is like I'm getting canceled, like no, but that it's a great opportunity to learn how to be okay with somebody saying something shitty to you on the internet and being like and I survived, I survived and also I don't care. Block and you know, peace out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, my gosh, this, I mean I could go on for another two hours. No, I could. This has been so wonderful. Um, Megan, thank you so much for taking the time to come and talk to me today. Where can people find you?

Speaker 2:

So I am most active on social media. On Instagram, I spend lots of time in DMs. I love when people DM me, and my handle is at letters, ubu skills. My website is wwwubuskillscom, and there's a number of ways that you can work with me.

Speaker 2:

One that I'm really excited about actually is, uh, it's a new thing called speech club, and so this is where this is a low stakes, low cost way of working with me, where you develop it's like book club, so we all watch the same speech and then we get together once a month and we talk about it. We talk about what we liked, we talk about what we didn't like, what we would like to bring into our own performances, and then there's three spots at the end of the call for three different folks to try out something they've been working on and get feedback. My approach to feedback is really positive, compassionate. I mean I'm going to let you know what you need to know, but I, you know, I have been around people who like theater school, where you know like people are berated or like shamed for their performances. I am so not that.

Speaker 1:

I can vouch for that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I don't want it. So that's that's a really easy way to get to know me and to start working on stuff and to be curious, and it's generally low stakes. I also have a one-on-one coaching package where we work together for about three months. It's called Dynamic Presence and that's mostly working on your presence and your presentation skills and often if you've got stuff like on the go, then we'll work on that. And then the other one, which is, you know, in the direction I'm heading, is called legacy power, and so this is where I work with folks intensely, one-on-one, who really want to be highly visible, right?

Speaker 2:

So this is like giving a lot of talks. This is TEDx's and conferences and keynotes. This is high-level media. This is getting in front of people. Maybe it's writing a book and doing a book tour. This is for folks who have really great ideas that need to be heard and they have the drive and the confidence, or want to develop the confidence, to get there. That's been the latest thing and I love it. I love that sort of like really intensive building visibility and taking a look at how far you can go.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I love it. All of those links are going to be in the show notes and that last one, that's the one I'm coming for as soon as I get over the one I just invested in, which you know about, and we're not going to talk about. That's a podcast episode for another day.

Speaker 2:

You get a lot more with me for the same amount of money than other programs are offering. Let's just say that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and, if you're curious, my DMs are always open and give you details on who to work with, and that's one of the benefits of having such brilliant and wonderful friends in the space is that I can wholeheartedly refer you to people who I know are bringing the goods and they're not full of shit and they actually deliver on what they promise. So, megan, thank you very much, thank you.

Speaker 1:

All of you out there who have been itching to become more visible, who have been wanting to speak, who want to slowly really step into your authority and your thought leadership. I cannot recommend Megan more highly. Check out the links in the show notes. As always, you can have literally anything you want without the BS. We are living proof of that. We'll talk to you next week. That's it for this week. Thanks for listening to the Business Blasphemy Podcast. We'll be back next week with a new episode, but in the meantime, help a sister out by subscribing and, if you're feeling extra sassy, rating this podcast and don't forget to share the podcast with others. Head over to businessblasphemypodcastcom to connect with us and learn more. Thanks for listening and remember you can have success without the BS.