Confusion and the sensation of being overwhelmed are huge obstacles in everyday life. In this cast we expose them as they relate to our spiritual journey. We find that many people are overwhelmed or confused by what people or man-made religion add to the simple and free truth of Jesus. It's an obstacle that doesn't need to be there. We hope our insights and first-hand experience with these obstacles gives you a different, simple framing of who scripture says Jesus is. It may help you take another step on your journey, or make your existing journey a bit easier and more enjoyable.
Longer, thought-provoking content lives at the Sinner's Pulpit.
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Confusion and the sensation of being overwhelmed are huge obstacles in everyday life. In this cast we expose them as they relate to our spiritual journey. We find that many people are overwhelmed or confused by what people or man-made religion add to the simple and free truth of Jesus. It's an obstacle that doesn't need to be there. We hope our insights and first-hand experience with these obstacles gives you a different, simple framing of who scripture says Jesus is. It may help you take another step on your journey, or make your existing journey a bit easier and more enjoyable.
Longer, thought-provoking content lives at the Sinner's Pulpit.
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at Sinners pulpit in the last podcast we talked about sinners pulpit coming alongside you. For sure. And we've also talked about some of the obstacles. You've talked about the topic of obstacles. You've talked about a broad topic within obstacles. So you tell me which ones or how you wanna approach obstacles. I, I think you're right though. And I think we both agree that obstacles are sort of man-made, right? They're made personally by us. They're, they're put there by people. God or Jesus certainly isn't blocking us from knowing him or getting to him or accepting him. So it's, it's, it's on us. So I'm, I'm always game for that topic, so I'll challenge you on the spot. Well, I'm gonna challenge you back. Out of the two dozen obstacles or the non-religious obstacles, cuz there's plenty. Which one? With all of the listeners today or tomorrow or a year from now? Like, what is the one that you think would hit home for 80% of them that would say That absolutely made me quit or challenge it or just dismiss it all and, you know, put it on a shelf and say, not, not today, Jesus Like, I'm not dealing with you now. Wh what, which one would be like the silver bullet in there that you probably feel like the most people, you know, it would resonate with? I think it's tandem them. You say, which one? I'd like to give you a set. One set. And if I were to set that tandem, uh, subject on the shelf, it would be number one religion, and number two would be intellectual ascent. I'm just too smart to buy this story. Yeah. So, and we, we've done, we've done some of the religion, like, I mean that's, there's a, there's a lot in there. So happy to tear into that one. Or, or do you want to tackle the intellectual ascent? Well, I think in the, in the writings we, we go into detail about religious doctrine. So in a general way, we could challenge each and every person to survey their own obstacle. And how does that either align with the scripture or not align with scripture in, in other words, how can we help that person? Just that obstacle's gone. We can help them by challenging them to look at their own obstacle. Is it intellectual ascent? Is it some doctrine that you're hung up on? Is it confusion with the scriptures? And we talk a lot about the Bible, but isn't that the basic fundamental for everything that we talk about, believe and and study? So I find that a lot of people really struggle with context in scripture. They don't rightly divide the scriptures, so it causes them to be confused. So that that's another obstacle just as large as the other two I told you. So how do we help them get over that obstacle? Yeah, I mean, I, I think first we expose it and I think Once you've exposed it, you can clarify past. So that I think what we said, like there actually isn't an obstacle. So I think it's more explaining through why things aren't an obstacle, if that makes sense. So yes, things feel like an obstacle to me too, but then in fact they're not, I can actually, I have all the access to Jesus and his power and the grace and the free, like I always have clear access. I don't feel like it, but if we actually reason through, some of that goes away. I won't say quickly, but it actually can make sense. And frankly, my own, uh, intellectual ascent, uh, helps me actually realize that these things aren't obstacles unless I've let them be. Yes. Uh, well said. We're not preaching to you, we're just sharing with you some of the things that we hear. I mean, how many times has someone said to you after you share the gospel, it just can't be that easy? Sure. Uh, happened numerous times to me. I've probably, in my past, I probably even said it, but yeah, people I think all the time that, that sounds great, but Right so then they're like, what do I do next? Or I was told at church I have to do A, B, and C. Or it seems like I was told that I guess maybe they're not always actually told that. So yeah, that, that's, that's definitely an obstacle or a confusion. So how do you clarify that confusion though? That's, that's not really that simple. And it's pretty broad too. Like how do you clarify That? Well, does it go back to, uh, what the scripture says? I mean, I think people try to read the Bible and they're so confused because we can look at what we think are contradictions when really it's just out of context. So let me ask you, let me challenge you, I do it on the street all the time. I tell people that God loves them and he sent his son to die for their sins and make'em, uh, able to be reconciled to God. And it's a great general statement. I remember a dear friend who was very well versed in scripture that used to reel against this blind faith. Like, why would I take this on blind faith, which is part of my intellectual ascent. We don't take anything else on blind's faith. Oh, just trust me. Whereas if we dig into the scriptures, we will find this beautiful puzzle. If we do it in context, we will see that the entire story leads to God himself, bringing us a gift. His eternal son taking the, guilt that that should be ours taking the death. That should be ours. I love, I love this because it's why, you know, I'm a part of sinner's pulpit. I'm going to ask you to go deep for us, right? You, you've already done it. You have, you've gone on this journey, you're farther along on the walk. So for people that aren't but have felt that obstacle, don't go too deep for me, but actually in context, in order at the high level where I I don't have to get deep in the weeds with you. Maybe I'll choose to do that. Maybe others will choose to do that at another time on their time. Simplify that message for me in context though. Like, I'm over here thinking if I am over here thinking that the Bible tells me there's a set of rules, or it's not that easy, right? I just don't think it can be that easy or that there's, there's holes in the plot, et cetera. Help me understand why it's not actu. Like if you, if you read this book in context and in order, don't worry. Actually the story plays out. This is actually that easy. Do you know what I mean? So, because to do what you've done over the last, what, 10, 20 years? That's, that's a big undertaking. So sinners pulp is supposed to help us in some ways fast track that simplify it, or at least make it accessible enough for others to take it deeper on their own, one-on-one walk. So bring it up high level for us, how actually it all kind of works out. I think it goes to walking along with people and sharing your story. Um, you can't share the entire story from Genesis to Revelation, but you can. I think the problem comes down and once again, I'll say it again, who Christ is there's no problem with scholars that Christ lived on the earth. I mean, we go back to, you know, TAUs and uh, and Josephus and we see, you know, historical writers who had no dog in the fight. They say, yeah, I mean, he lived and walked the earth, but if he's just a man, we just have another religion. He's God in the flesh. And you know, the Bible doesn't need, you know, defending. I think it was Spurgeon that said it, it's like a lion. You know, you don't have to defend the lion. He'll defend himself. And if, if we study the scriptures, we will see this story of grace and, and the ultimate love where God gave himself. And in the new covenant, he made the promise with himself in the old covenant, he always made a promise to man, and they always broke it in the new covenant. He says, you know what? I am going to make a covenant with myself and the father and son, if you read Hebrews, I think is chapter eight beautiful of how the ultimate love where he died, he became flesh so he could die as a human to shed that blood that would once and for all, um, pay the payment for sin. So I think that's part of the in context. You, you told it in a, uh, linear fashion, which is the right way to think about this. But nowhere in there did you go backwards in time, right? So when you mention the Messiah came, whether or not people listening believe that Jesus was the Messiah, that's the whole part. You gotta get your head around. That's probably where faith is involved. That's the part I think people get wrapped around an axle right at that moment. You go, okay, even if I do believe that there's, but look back here. God tells us, Moses tells us, et cetera. I'm told, don't do this, don't do that. Right? Lots of laws, lots of rules. They, they reached backwards in that story and point to other things because they've still been told that. So when you got to the part that was effectively, if you believe in the one I sent, you're good. There is no butt, there is no, now look back six books or look back to Genesis or look back, it's from now on. You're good if this period full stop, it's actually that simple. The only butts that we can add to it is if we reach backwards, right? Yes, yes. Into, and, and we, and we pull it forward and go, okay, Jesus is here, but I still got told this Jesus is here, but I still have to, um, follow these 10 commandments here on these tablets. Like, because if I look back, you can see it. And there's a very clear instruction when Jesus was walking around and all the places he went, he says things and gives orders. So I can point back to that. And that's Jesus saying that. So man, that's, you know, that I'm looking at it right here. But if, if we looked at it linearly every time any of us do that or get wrapped up in that, we just reached back in history, right? We didn't keep going forward. Well, very well said. And you'll see in the writings we talk about people being parked in Matthew, mark, Luke, and John. That was the earthly minute, uh, the earthly ministry of Christ under the law. We must separate before and after the cross. And one of the biggest issues that we have is that people do not rightly divide the scriptures. Second Timothy two 15, we, we go back and we pull up Levitical laws about shrimp or homosexuality or uh, adultery. And we try to apply 'em today after the cross. All of this has been fulfilled. All the law is good, but it's been fulfilled in Christ. And you know, when I, when We, so you know what actually, what's, what's special about that to me, it's kind of dawned on me as you're talking about it. Maybe it's kind of good. Like I think sometimes as me as a believing Christian yourself as well, you look at friends, family that you want, you know, to share the story. And again, we always say like, I can't, I can't make you believe and I'm not gonna be the one that saves you, but we're kind of in this coaching role, right? Like just how can we help make it more accessible? Talk about it like we are today, the people that have been turned off or just threw it, discounted, all of it based on that confusion or based on someone told them, yeah, Jesus Christ the savior, don't forget about these laws. Don't forget about the 10 Commandments and so on. Maybe it's a, a great opportunity. Maybe God built that in that they threw it out, they threw all of it out, put it on a shelf and said like, I, this doesn't seem right cuz what you just, it doesn't compute. It actually doesn't compute. Like, and it shouldn't because it's not both. It's not mixing them. So maybe it's good that a lot of people are stuck in this, like they threw it out. So maybe I'm happy that people have uh, said it on a shelf until they're ready to hear that. Actually, you're right. Don't mix the two. Let's clarify straighten that bald yarn out. And it's actually really simple. It really comes down to who is this Jesus Christ that you say I need. Is Jesus a savior though that can even do that? So now that's a, that is a, and I get it, like that's a big obstacle. Is Jesus the savior that can even do that? Like, hang on. So okay, I'm following your linear journey. You're saying that if he is in fact God in the flesh, then sure he could do that. But hang on, like why am I supposed to believe that? And that, I mean, that's a very real obstacle and that's, I that probably carries you into our intellectual ascent because we are smart people and we have no proxy today on earth that follows that, at least in, in my mind, like that does take my blind faith to accept that that could happen or be a thing. Okay, so this guy dies on a cross, shed some blood. You've said it's all per, but you said it's all perfect. The Bible said it's all perfect and, and we're stuck in a bit of a loop there because yes, you are gonna have to believe there's a supernatural component to that or else the story doesn't check out. That's a real obstacle and that's very understandable. Absolutely. I mean, it was for you and me, I mean, how many years did I question and seek and, and after, after studying the scriptures, I see where it, it all makes sense to me because what man could do this just a human, I mean, we can see the eternal nature of the universe. We know there's something bigger than us. So like you said, we're smart people. No man could do the things that are documented, eye witnessed in scripture. No man could do this if it weren't God in the flesh who can raise people from the dead. And I'd go further that once you seek him, he promises, if you seek me, you will find me. And look at all the story stories of, of atheist, look at CS Lewis. I mean he was an atheist that set out to prove that, that this was all, uh, malarkey. I mean, CS Lewis was an intelligent man and he started to seek God and read the scriptures and study and guess what happened? He became one of the greatest apologist ever, you know, in our history. And if we would just read CS Lewis some of his stuff. So to sum that up, if it, if it weren't God in the flesh, then I wouldn't believe any of it. Well, yeah, but isn't that what people are saying? If I don't think he was god in the flesh or I can't be convinced, then like your story, even when the Ballard is, is spread out, it's, you know, a straight linear line and you don't reach back and mix things together. He's not really, he's not, he's not who you say he is because I just don't know if I can buy these God in the flesh. And I, in some ways rhetorical, like I know, I know your answer, I know our thought process around this. So it, for me that's, I still get stuck on that. We'll probably end up doing a hundred podcasts, right? Yeah, It's Okay discussing some parts of that, which is fine too. But I do think that most interesting part in there for me is if we could even coach, assist and dare I say convince folks exactly what you said around seeking him. So, hey, that's, that's all right. If you are not yet bought into Jesus as the son of God if you do, if you are interested enough in that linear story. Man, the message, the idea of grace and that freedom that you're talking about in Jesus, like, that sounds really good and you've explained to me how not to mix the two because they just don't mix. Got it. Then I guess we're just urging you to dig in to the son of God that we say he is and it'll, you'll, you'll love the ride, right? So that's like, just take it back off the shelf because now it's not bull mixing law, mixing grace, gotta do this, you gotta do that. This thing is free. Everybody loves free. I love free. So take the free and then you can do the rest yourself. Because honestly, I can't, I can't make that jump for people. I think you can answer questions for them that will help sort out that more as they dig deeper and deeper as you have, right? There's gonna be questions, confusion again and again, but sorting out who we say he is, if you seek, you will find. And that journey is actually, I mean, that's everything. And it's frankly, it, it's, it's fun. I think it's a lot better than keeping it quietly stuck up on that shelf. Like, you know, you don't want it to be stuck on the shelf. Hopefully we've unstuck it off the shelf and now you gotta like open the box and deal with it on your own time, typically extremely interesting and, um, good for your soul. If nothing else, I feel like, Uh, well said. I mean, w we could ask how many people would, would disagree that they are morally deficient at some point in their life. You know, we lie cheek, steal lust, I mean, you name it. How many perfect people are on the earth? I don't, if you ask all 8 billion people, do you think there's any perfect individual that has never had a dirty thought? No. But that's the same, that's the same reason someone's going to say two, 2000 ish years ago. I don't think Jesus was e like, how do I know that he didn't stare at a woman's ass and lust after it? How do I know? Because he was without sin and to be without sinny. How do you know that? Wait, wait, wait. Well, uh, back to our point. If he isn't God in the flesh, then he's just another one of us that stares at a woman's ass, Right? But that's, I'm just, and this is, this is like, I think this is actually a real obstacle. That's the, that's the part though. You can't tell me there's no way, and it's not about a bible. Th talk about logic. You can't tell me that there's a way to know that if in fact lustine, not even the physical act, just like looking at a woman in lust as, as Jesus told his, uh, disciples, he told the Jewish people he was speaking to, right? Like he explained just how easy it was to sin, right? Effectively He raised the bar, Right? But we won't know. You can't know that Jesus never did that. Like you can't know that he didn't look at a woman on this earth in lust. And so that's hard, right? And like that's the logic people would say is like, I, okay, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't do any of the, he didn't break any of the 10 commandments, like probably could figure that out pretty clearly. He taught a lot of things and he followed as a, as a Jew, he followed all the rules, right? He fulfilled them day in and day out, went to synagogue, et cetera. What did it for me? And this is I think what this is walking alongside folks at the sinner's pulpit, what did it for me? I studied the scriptures. I was like, CS Lewis, I don't want this by blind faith. If, if God loves me, he's not gonna just say, trust me. How many people have said, just trust me. He, if we look into the scriptures mathematically we can, and this is what did it for me. These prophecies have come true over the years. And if you study the prophecies that have come true, they are, and I've given you the number, the, the, the, uh, for these to come true would be an equation, something like one in 10 to the 16th power. And you can look at the prophecies that have come true over the years through thousands and thousands of years. And, and some of these theologians put it to that number equals like stacking silver dollars for 2200 miles and then picking one out with a certain year. So for me it was digging in and seeing mathematically that these prophecies thousands of years ago are coming true. We see, uh, history unfolding on a daily basis, all prophesied in the scriptures. So that's really, um, what did it for me, because I didn't want this in blind faith. Okay? Jesus is God in the flesh. Okay? How do you know that? And the only way I know it two, two reasons is what I just told you about prophecy with the mathematical equations, one in 10 to the 16th, power some crazy number. And the other part is that if you seek, you will find, and I've always said the greatest evidence for this is the individual that seeks and finds, let me put it back on you. I remember a time in your life where you were, uh, really seeking is this Bible true and blind faith? So what flipped the switch for you? What flipped the switch for me? Um, I I challenged all the things that we've talked about, it's exactly what you said, same thing. Didn't want to trust it on blind faith. I didn't go as far as the science and the math that you did. Um, I certainly listened to your version of that, kind of pushed against it just to, you know, field test it a little bit and it held pretty good water for one. But it's back like I salt for myself and sat down with some scripture, sat down with things that aren't scripture, sat down with things from religions and other people's thought processes and found myself. Honestly, I, I didn't wind back to Jesus per se, but like, it just became, I think, you know, small layer by layer, it made all the sense in the world to me that Jesus is the son of God. And, and the story really just clarified itself through just giving it a little bit of time. And that's why I keep saying, you know, bringing it back off of the shelf. That's all it was for me. Like I made, I made a, a choice to seek and I made a choice to ask questions and I made a choice to personally, yeah, I'm gonna open the book and read it a little bit, not because I have to, or a pastor told me, you need to be in the scripture, you need to be in the word no, I'm gonna be in the word because I'm interested and I want to check it out for myself. I want to dig a little bit deeper, but the amount of time I spend in math books and, you know, history books and then in my professional career, the things I listen to and, and work on and think about and read, write, et cetera, thousands of hours, right? Trying to get to that 10,000 hour tipping point. Why would I not give this even a fraction of that, given the potential possible outcome that I wasn't bought into yet? So I, that's more, I use that, um, intellectual ascent to reason that I should probably give it some time. It would be okay if giving it that time yielded a non-res result for Jesus. I was prepared to not believe much like CS Lewis, but much less much less intellectual. I ended up in Jesus camp as a result of that. So that's, I mean, that's my, it's simply that I said I'm not gonna leave it on a shelf that seems like a bad, that seems like a poor choice. And it's calling me on the shelf from, from on the shelf, right? And that's not Jesus calling me on the shelf, that box of put it away, don't think about it. It's real easy to live my life day in and day out. Do the things I do. Some are good, some are bad, some are sin, some are not. It just seemed, I kept looking at the box, I'm like, I probably shouldn't leave that box up on the shelf. That seems irres like a little bit irresponsible in that word. You know, maybe that's a little too harsh for other people. But putting it on pause constantly just felt wrong. I was just like, I need, I need to open that box. I mean, look at CS Lewis, he said, you know what you say you're God in the flesh. Prove it. CS Lewis went because he's an intellectual. He went and said, okay, if, if you're the God of the universe, and you came, scripture tells us God was in Christ reconciling mankind to himself. CS Lewis said, prove it So an intellectual will go to that book for his own reasons. A wise man will go to that book for a different reason. He may not be an intellectual. The ultimate love will give you understanding. Scripture tells us you're not gonna get this understanding in the natural mind. And again, you know, there I go preaching. But yeah, But that, no, that's a good wrap though. Cause I I was about to jump in on the wise thing and look, there are wise people that do not believe in Jesus as the son of God. So you can be wise without it. Like, it's not, you know, if you, if you were wise, you would believe in Jesus. Like that would've been, not it. But I do, I do agree with the fact that if you, you'll give it, you'll give it time that'll sort itself out. Well, You know, I think Holy Joe and if you read that very short writing, I think Holy Joe contrasts, you know, all of the scholars and just one simple guy that's homeless and I think he tells a story better than all the scholars put together. And you know, if I could, if I could send people to Hebrews one where the entirety, the Bible, the Bible, 870,000 words or something, depending on your version says that God spoke to us in the prophets. But now he speaks to us through his son Jesus Christ. I mean, how many times have you heard a street preacher or a guy in the pulpit, you've been to church, you've heard, you know this guy Ray Comfort, he's all over YouTube who beats people over the head with 10 commandments. You're a sinner, you're gonna go to hell. How many times have you heard him say that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh? And it comes back full circle. Probably a good place to end It is. It comes down to who, who do you say I am?