Grow Your Clinic

Articulate Design Co: The Power of Space and Clinic Design in Team Culture and Patient Experience | GYC Podcast E288

• Articulate Design Co. • Season 5 • Episode 288

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In this episode, we dive into the importance of intentional clinic design with Meg and Neena from Articulate Design. The conversation focuses on how a well-curated clinic space can attract top-quality therapists, enhance team connections, and foster a positive workplace culture. We explore the direct correlation between clinic design and improved patient care experiences, emphasising the role of a thoughtfully designed environment in achieving business success. They share insights on what clinic owners should prioritise when investing in refurbishments or new clinic spaces to ensure these investments yield tangible results. Join us as we discuss the critical role of space in bringing your clinic vision to life and creating a purposeful, thriving practice.

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This is the Grow Your Clinic podcast from Clinic Mastery. We help progressive health professionals to lead inspired teams, transform client experiences, and build clinics for good. Now, Welcome to the Grow Your Clinic Podcast. If you're a clinic owner with a big vision for the future, or you're formulating a vision for creating a great place to work, a place that attracts the best quality therapists to come and work with you, that attracts your ideal clients, and you have no problems filling your books, then this episode is for you. I'm in conversation with Meg and Neena from Articulate Design, and we go into depth as to how the space that you create, not just any space, but an intentionally designed clinic space, can help you attract quality team members. It can boost the connection of those team members and facilitate a great culture. It can also help with the care experience that you provide your patients. And we look at how this is actually part of a bigger play in building a purposeful clinic, a clinic that is intentionally designed to attract great people, work with them and serve them to the best of your ability. This is about bringing your vision to life through the space that you curate and create. Let's join the conversation now with Meg and Neena. So when we first met, there was a part of the conversation that really stuck with me, and it was around how you framed clinic design and commercial or financial results for a clinic and the business in particular. And Meg, I'm really curious to know what should clinic owners prioritize first to ensure that their investment into a refurbishment or a new clinic translates into tangible business Yeah, great question. I think the best way to open this answer is to say that design historically, or even conventionally, is really thought of as a frill, like a bonus if there's extra cash in the bank to put some money into it. And that it's really just about the aesthetics and creating a beautiful space. And where we really challenge that narrative is to say that Design is in every corner of the business from really effective and efficient and informed space planning so that every square foot or square meter of space is utilized to its most effective income generating potential. It's infusing a brand to create a brand experience within a bricks and mortar space. that has staying power in the memory of the clinicians and the clients visiting it. It's integrating technology in a way that best serves the demographic visiting the space. And that again, kind of makes the flow and function of the clinic work seamlessly. And so to sort of get back to the question is that, You know, design is maybe one of the most, is like the highest return on investment you can make in your clinic for that reason. A clinic that doesn't flow well, that doesn't have a brand presence, that isn't really designed in a way that's really thoughtful is really challenging then to come Just to interrupt the podcast for one moment. Did you know that one of the common challenges for a growing clinic is the inefficiency from scattered systems? You've got duplicates everywhere. No one knows where to find any of the information they need for policies, procedures, or training, and it creates a bottleneck. Always coming to you as the owner or leader of a clinic to have to know where everything is. and how to do it. all of the important compliance docs that you need to have to run a good business and have your best practices documented, shared with your team, and importantly, acknowledged by your team. Yes, you can even track have they read it for any auditing or compliance purposes. You can head over to alieclinics.com and you can test it out for an entire month for free. No credit card down. There's like literally no risk. Give it a crack and I'm sure you'll love it and reach out if you need any help in systemizing your business and streamlining those things so they're no longer scattered. Right, let's head back to the episode now. And then Meg, how do you talk about this with clients who are looking to engage you for design? When they come to you, how do you curate, justify that business case? Do you talk about it and how do you talk about Yeah, I think most people coming our way, we're very fortunate that they find us because it's already something that they're very curious to explore and they see the value behind it. But obviously there's a natural tension of we are completely empathetic that every space every clinic owner has a budget and it's usually a tight one and and how do we make dollars and cents stretch as far as possible. And so we really just try to approach it in that We are here to consult and we are here to use our expertise, both as clinicians and designers, to make sure that you're spending your investment in design in the lane that makes the most sense. And for some, that's going to be a complete redesign of how the space functions to make their business function a lot better. And for others, it's infusing their brand into the space. And others, it's adapting to a changing model of technology and digitization of a clinic space. So it really just depends on the type So Neena, let's talk about then the design of the space. And maybe just practically like floor plans, as an example, or use using the fully utilizing the square feet that you have available, what are some of the things that you Um, I think that is part of why, um, we've found such success in our business with our clients is because we're clinicians. So Meg and I have like a very intimate understanding of. a space that feels functional to actually work in and thrive in. So even things as simple as understanding the dimensions of a treatment room and what should those be and how flexible can a space be for a multitude of different kinds of practitioner, depending on just literally the sheer four walls of it. So it can be something as simple as that, an opening, um, opening someone's mind to the fact that like a more comfortable space or a more flexible space is really great for income generation, because perhaps the type of clinician you're having in your space is going to change, right? So that's one aspect of the floor planning. I think another one is really um, intimately involved with just the use of technology. So Meg and I are, you know, huge proponents of introducing different types of technologies into spaces. Um, for instance, like a traditional reception area, and we've chatted about this a bit before, but maybe, you know, thinking a little bit more forward in terms of yes, paperless, but also, you know, there's a lot of amazing, um, software offerings out there so that patients can check in at an iPad instead of like a big kind of cumbersome reception desk with like a fax machine and three people sitting there. Maybe it can be something a little bit more intimate, a little bit more interactive, but also it allows for the square footage of the reception space to be something really standout and unique. So In our portfolio in the past, we've created like a mini lending free library in our clients reception, their book enthusiasts. And another one we created like a full coffee bar, kitchenette, where clients could come and sit at the bar while they waited for their appointment and have a coffee. So I think the integration of technology really frees up square footage for more meaningful brand experiences and income generation. So those are two examples of how floor plans, how we kind of work with floor plans to really optimize I'm keen to go into that flexibility comment that you made around giving yourself optionality over different practitioner types of different services and practically maybe some examples of how you've done that. But just to share with you, one of the inspirations for Clinic Mastery when we first started was a dentist by the name of Paddy Lund. And Paddy had this, I think he's got a book out there, but one of the elements to his story was that he took either an axe or a chainsaw to the front desk, the admin desk, and like got rid of it. It's this kind of theatrical moment, but they created essentially a small cafe as their welcome center. And they even changed the name there, I think, from waiting room to a welcome center. And it was this idea that waiting rooms are just so drab and a terribly boring, sterile experience. And they're somewhat of a necessary evil or an afterthought for a clinic. There's not a lot of purposeful design put into this part of the space overall. But I really liked hearing those examples of how you do it. I know a couple of pediatric clinics that have play spaces, almost like a mini crèche type of space for the kids as they wait. I got four kids and I know what it's like. They're crawling up the walls waiting to go into the dentist or, you know, the OT or speech pathologist. So keeping them engaged while they wait is super important. But to that flexibility point, Meg, What are some of the things that you've done that you've seen in clinics that gives you that optionality over the space? You know, if you all of a sudden add a whole bunch of practitioners or you get practitioners from a different discipline and they do need different makeups of the room, what have you practically seen done to give Yeah, I mean, I think it starts with our process and the way in which we intake our clients. So being physiotherapists by training, we take our design intake form very similar to how you would do it with a patient, right? So it's detailed, it's really asking the right questions so that the answer is given to us, if that makes sense. And I think any practicing clinician will understand that. Can you, just to interrupt Meg, can you talk us through just some of the core elements? Because I imagine someone listening in or watching in is maybe thinking through, well, what do I need to know if I was to get help in my space? What could I be thinking about ahead of time? So Well, I think the way in which we've approached it is a little unorthodox in that most think the form is going to be strictly about their aesthetic meanings. Um, you know how they like a space to look and feel and we dive way deeper than that And so to get back to your original question, you know, we're asking what's your one year five year ten year plan for your business? We're asking what you want your brand experience to be we're asking for places that you like to visit across all industries that really evoke a feeling of um like what you want to bring into your clinical space. We ask questions about the type of music that you like to play. You know, it really spans the whole 360 of how then we approach the design so that we're looking not only, I mean, the aesthetic part is honestly a very, very small part of our intake and And the secret is that the aesthetics are actually the easiest part of what we do The hard part is really taking all these factors of okay. What's your business plan? How do you see your business growing? What's the demographic that you is sort of your avatar person that you want to be treating? Um, what types of practitioners are you looking to bring into the space? What's the vibe? What's the look what's the feel so that? When we then design the space, we're keeping all of those things in mind. So to pull that back to the original question of the flexibility within a space, We're trying to get clinicians to look outside of the next six months, which is what most people are doing when they open a space. It's like, I just need to get the doors open. I just need to be practicing, like, let's just bang up some walls and then I'll deal with it later. And so we're doing a pushback to say, well, wait a minute. You're telling us that in five years, you hope to have this multidisciplinary team. And we're telling you what you think is going to take five years is probably going to take you a year and a half. So let us help you design for what is to come based on what you have told us through this intake process. And so that's, let's make sure these rooms, you could have a chiropractor in there from 7am till noon. And then you may have a massage therapist use it for the second part of the day. And then you may have a naturopathic doctor in the evening. and that the way in which we've laid it out, the size, the amenities within it are going to suit those practitioners to the best of Hey, just interrupt the podcast for one moment. Did you know that beyond this podcast, we have a consulting service where we work directly with you as a clinic owner to help grow your clinic? Now, if you're wondering how does it work and are these the right people for me, you can send an email to hello at clinicmastery.com and we'll arrange a time to have a conversation. Now, on average, people have three conversations with us spaced over a couple of days or a couple of weeks to figure out whether we're the right folks to help you in your next stage of business. There's no pressure whatsoever. We want you to feel fully committed to either working with us or not at all. That's totally cool. But that is our specialty that we've built our brand on over a decade now. You can read our reviews, testimonials, and case studies. We've done a ripping job at helping heaps of people from a variety of backgrounds grow their clinic sustainably. But probably you want to know whether we're the right sort of fit, a values alignment for you. Best way to do that is to have a phone call with us, a Zoom call, and see whether we can help you out. send us an email, hello at clinicmastery.com. Let's arrange a time, see where we can launch you into the next stage of your growth. All right, back to the episode. I love that optionality and you bring up a good point here. And a trend that I'm noticing a lot in clinics is that they've got a space they're paying rent for, and they've got the option to use that as many hours of the day and as many days of the week as they possibly can, but maybe to standardize it, they use it between 9 and 5 p.m., 9 a.m., 5 p.m., Monday to Friday. And you get some clinics that go, okay, we'll add a Saturday, or we'll actually open a little bit earlier, close a little bit later. And they start to actually open up the utilization of the physical space a bit more, which plays into the commercial results of the business. But going even a little bit further, I've noticed a number of clinics doing like a shift model, where, you know, they might have a group of their team start 7am in the morning, they'll go through to about one o'clock in the afternoon. And then you kind of have the next shift of people come on from about 1pm until 7pm. And they're sort of maximizing the utilization of their space as best as they possibly can. And then again, they could open up on a Saturday, some open on a Sunday, but not so much. And then what happens is perhaps there's this trade-off in the middle of the day where their teams can be a little bit ships in the night. They sort of cross and overlap and maybe there's a concern or they've actually experienced, hey, this isn't particularly good for the culture of the team. Sort of they're clocking on, clocking off and they kind of miss one another. There's not a lot of connectivity. And perhaps with the intention to maximize the physical space that I have, maybe I got rid of the tea room or the team room, right? I made it into a treatment space or a gym or something like that. And now it's very small or pokey or non-existent at all. I'm interested in that sort of intention or focus of a clinic owner who's trying to maximize the space for billable activities, billable services, and also trying to create a space for their team members to connect and work or possibly even do billable services that are like writing assessments or reports where they don't need to see a patient. They don't need the big space of a room, but they need a space to do that type of work. So it's this balancing act that I'm seeing across a number of different clinics of trying to optimize the space for face-to-face services and also still have a space for their team. Can you just talk us through some of the creative things that you've done or that you've seen in being Yeah, I think, um, as you said it is, it's absolutely a balancing act so when you, you know, if you have a very small space, then it gets harder to designate a space that is just exclusively for for staff. And then if you have a really large space and you don't have something like that, then you're kind of having nowhere for people to eat and do all these kinds of like things that you want to kind of keep behind closed doors. So it is a balancing act. I think number one, what we try to do is in those smaller spaces have generous treatment rooms where there's storage people maybe can. chart, they could potentially eat their lunch and store everything behind, you know, in a cabinet or something like that and feel very comfortable in that therapy space to use it in all the ways that they need to during a shift. I think the other thing that we do is kind of we've, in a recent project, we've created little like nooks down a big expansive hallway. And that allows clinicians to not only, you know, have a place to acquire things that are maybe shared among practitioners between rooms, but it's like this really nice little place for people to like meet for five minutes and say, Oh, you know, okay, This is what I'm dealing with this right now. Do you have an idea for this? Or they can have their tablet out and do a little bit of charting while standing. So we have, we create moments like that within spaces that are not necessarily designated staff areas. Um, I think the other thing that we really, really, um, value is just communicating like the brand experience the the culture that our clients are trying to create in order to attract. the right vibe of clinicians coming into the space and then creating a physical experience of that brand, right? And that's really creating a really nice culture so that if people are partying, you know, at a pretty modular space in the gym, they still feel really connected. They don't feel like, oh, like I don't have my own space to go sit down and decompress. We try to create spaces that really honor the culture that our clients are trying to create for their clinicians. So I think that that's kind of underlying everything. And then how people are spending their, you know, time doing like the non direct clinical skills is And Neena- I'll just like jump in, sorry. One thing to add to that, that I agree with everything Neena said, and also it's knowing the market that you're in. So people who are in a downtown urban center where, you know, the cost to lease a space is incredibly expensive, it likely makes more sense to maximize income generating spaces or treatment rooms or spaces. And there's also likely a plethora of things in the area, coffee shops and places to have lunch, that shifts the scales a bit. Then you look at the opposite of the spectrum. And we did a place in rural Canada where acquiring staff is so challenging that their staff room was the number one priority of their clinic space. It's a massive chunk of the real estate because the real estate is much cheaper, but they wanted to outfit it to the nines because their main priority was acquiring or getting people to come to this area to work. And so they had a ping pong table. They had a Peloton bike. They had a whole. lounge area, they were bringing lunches in each day, because for them that was the priority. So I think it's just important to understand your market, understand the geography of where you are, and really what is most Have you used any of those, uh, quiet booths? You know, you can kind of get those pods. Have you seen those pods before? Like, um, is that something that you've ever used? Like where maybe space is an issue or, you know, uh, the noise is an issue. Do you ever find We have used them actually. Um, We, uh, had the privilege of designing a really interesting space where it was. A coworking space for parents. So, um, it had, and it was like just a really wellness minded. So there was a yoga studio where people could come and do yoga classes, but it had a full daycare so they can have their kids cared for. And then it had a coworking space. So within the coworking space room, we had two modular pods built and they were soundproof and they allowed for that like little privacy moment and a little bit more quiet for our clients. So we have used those in the past. It's just kind of knowing the right time and place to use some of these really cool products out Neena, on that point around the culture that a clinic owner wants to create, can you give us an insight into some of the examples you get come through those forms or those conversations? How do people describe it in a way that is then useful for you creating a design that would fulfill or meet Well, I think it goes back to the questionnaire, the intake questionnaire that we create, and it really helps us build a picture of our clients and what success in their physical space looks like to them. you know, understanding what their five and 10 year plan is, understanding their ideal avatar, like who is their ideal client coming in through the doors? What kind of work does that person do? What age group are they in? Understanding the kind of music our clinicians want to listen to in the space, right? All of those things and looking at their physical, like their actual brand packaging or their branding assets, all of that together is what really helps us develop a plan for creating a physical experience and expressing that culture. That's why, too, if you ever look at our portfolio, like none of our projects look the same, because we're never trying to instill our own aesthetic into these spaces. Really, our job is just communicating that culture and that brand experience that our clients have created, because that's ultimately what's going to bring their ideal clients And Meg, with this, what sort of advice would you give clinic owners who have maybe a tighter budget, they don't have a lot of money, maybe they're a startup, or maybe they're just at a point in business where they get it, they understand they need to do this, but I don't have a lot of funds, perhaps. What are some creative and cost effective ways in the design and setup of a clinic that can add real value to clients and Yeah, I mean, there's very kind of practical advice, like hate goes a long way. And, you know, there's some like very kind of tangible things people can do that are more DIY and lower budget. But ultimately, I'd almost pose it more to say, You know, if it's an existing space and these questions are swirling in your head around the design and experience, if you step outside, you know, because it's hard when we're all in a space and we work in a space and we live and breathe our business to sometimes see it for what it is. But if you step outside for a second, literally step outside and look inwards, Does the space you're looking at feel like it represents your brand? That if someone walked in and there's no one there to greet them and they haven't read a website and they just walk in the physical space, does it send the message that you want your brand to translate. And that comes down to the lighting. Is it super bright and stimulating and you're in a space that you're trying to neuroregulate and bring people down or vice versa? you know, are the colors in line with how you want people to feel or do they evoke the feeling that you're looking to translate? Does the seating fit, again, the messaging that you want? Like all those little elements, if you just take a step back, it will start to become clear where the gaps are to say, okay, this lighting needs to go, or this bright red feature wall I painted behind my front desk when I first opened is no longer serving me. That's not the vibe I want to, you know, put out there. And so you're really just trying to do that exercise of your own little audit of is this cohesive, is this the message I want to put across? And, and really, that's the sign of success for us when we finish a project of if nobody is in this space, could either someone who's applying for a job there, or someone who wants to come as a consumer, understand the brief, understand the brand, and hopefully, that's what Yeah, I, I totally agree with Meg. I think it's like taking the time to do the audit and really reflect on your practice, however small it is, or however, you know, meager your budget may feel to you. And then I think it's sweat equity. It's like, once you realize those gaps, it's like be sleuthy, like figure out a way to, to fill those gaps. You know, we had. Someone who is part of a scholarship collaborative that we had where we they won a free consultation from us, but really that practitioner she thought about her solo practice. like so thoroughly she had big aspirations and then she didn't have a big budget to execute our design and she did all of it herself and she painted that logo and she figured it out and it looks like a million bucks right so I think like the the investment needs to be like your self-reflection and your you know, your energy in finding the gaps and executing in whichever way you can. When a place is intentionally designed, it's very obvious, no matter what the budget is, the intent behind that is always physically It's almost as if you're doing like a brand strategy before getting into designing the space. I know a number of clinics who have maybe engaged a brand strategist more on, you know, how does their logo look and feel and their tone of voice and their positioning in the market and their website and some of those digital assets, but perhaps If I'm hearing you correctly, you're doing essentially the same process, but applying that a lot in the physical space so that it resonates with team and clients. I'm interested in the recruitment one to go back to that one, Meg, because In Australia, in particular, we hear from a lot of clinic owners, how competitive the recruitment market is. And there are a number of elements that go into attracting the right talent, but perhaps broadly, it's that someone would see the type of clinic you have and go, gee, I want to work there. That looks like a great place to work for a number of different reasons. Talk us through maybe some of the clients you mentioned there in a rural destination, which is even harder to recruit than maybe a CBD location. Talk us through some of the elements in thinking through how this space helps in recruiting your ideal team member? The first part you mentioned was like, who is your ideal team member? Age profile, what are they interested in? But take us a little bit further down how I might think about the space, the clinic, and it helping me attract quality Yeah, great question. We love this question because secretly, we design for the clinicians and the clients follow. We're not trying to design a space to bring people in. We know the value of clinicians and the people will flow in. So we always design first for the clinician because they're the ones spending the time in the space, the eight hour, 10 hour days. We understand and empathize so deeply with what it means to be a healthcare provider and the challenges that come with that. And so this space, especially in this industry, is so important for those reasons in that, you know, we're really trying to like lessen the load of what is a very taxing job. And, you know, I think it's like, It's important that clinic owners, I think there's a lot of emphasis on, well, what am I paying people? And if I just pay them more, they will come. And there's a lot of both anecdotal and well-researched evidence, and especially in the younger generation, or at least younger than Neena and I, you know, your new grads, your Gen Zs. Is it Gen Z? Yeah. Um, see it's how old I am. I can't figure out the generation that they will take less pay to be in an environment that is inspiring. And that is a real pop out because, you know, it speaks to how important the experience is and that simply the market is just driving that, that no longer can you have, you know, a clinic in a dodgy basement with You know, 30 year old carpet and old machines and tables that are, you know, as older than the practitioners working on them. It won't matter what splits or pay or incentives or continuing education, you're going to provide. You know, people wanna feel taken care of, they wanna feel seen, they wanna take pictures and put it on their Instagram of the place they work and feel that pride in the space they work in and the work that they're doing. And from that, it's all a downhill cascade. You attract great clinicians, they attract great clients, who tell more clients, who then allow you to hire more clinicians. It I do have something to build on that too. I completely agree with Meg. I think a practical example of that would be like, if our philosophy, if my business's philosophy is really focused around like movement-based rehab, well then Meg and I are realizing that through all of our intake and our, you know, really comprehensive understanding of the business. And then we're designing a wicked gym, right? So it's also like understanding like where the investment should be, depending on the types of practitioners you want to bring in, right? If you're having like a lot of Pilates based therapists and of course like you need a nice place for them to work there shouldn't be like, well, your stuff is around the corner, you know, in a nook like no we've created this really great storage system that's really practical for you. to then feel really successful in your practice. So I think that's also part of it is like there is a practicality to where we focus some of our design elements, depending on the types of practitioners or the practice philosophy that As part of understanding the practitioners, do you or do you encourage the clinic owners to do some version of research or surveying their current team or the market to the degree that they can? Because it sounds like we're trying to really get in the minds and desires of the people that work with us. How do you figure that out? I'm sure lots of clinic owners have their own experience and they can share different things. I do hear that kind of skeptical, you know, beaten down clinic owner that says the younger generation of today, you know, they don't do this, they're entitled with that. And, you know, they probably don't want to empathize with them and get into their shoes. But how do you how do you go about getting into the shoes of the practitioner, Meg, what do you encourage that clinic owner to really do so that they can unpack this philosophy, this culture, this great place Yeah, I mean, I think it's a bit of a, you know, like, you can't beat him, join him sort of mentality. Ultimately, this is the, the success of your business hinges on the people that you hire. And if this is what the feedback is, then, you know, it's, it's silly to sort of resist that. I'll give you a more negative example is we had someone approach us as a client, um, as a potential client, we always do a discovery call to see if we're a great fit. And she goes, I hate design. I don't care about design, but I I have people quitting every three months and apparently it's because my clinics look terrible. So like, I guess I need design help, but like, I'm not spending any more than I have to. And we were like, this is somebody who's just not going to ever get it. Like it's sort of, you know, I don't know if it's a phrase in Australia, but like lipstick on a pig of like, what's the least I can do to dress this thing up. And you're really not getting to the heart of what the actual issue is. It's that your staff do not feel heard. They don't feel taken care of. They feel uninspired. It's their market. They can go anywhere. Like we have a shortage of practitioners. So if you want the best and the brightest and the ones that are going to stick around, it's no longer a nice to have, it's a need to have. And that doesn't need to come at a massive budget. It's just to Neena's point that you put thought and effort and intention into I love that point about it is their market to pick and choose. And there are certain things that we have to do to be able to attract that, to be deserving of attracting that quality talent to the team. I think, you know, if I'm a clinic owner sort of listening in and through a lot of conversations I've had with clinic owners over time, there's maybe this like default thinking that well, going down this road is going to cost me a lot of money and a lot of time. And so I'm not going to think about it because I don't have either of those right now. But what I'm really loving from this conversation is, you're actually not even starting there. You're actually saying, what is our philosophy? What is our culture? What do we want our clinic to represent? What are the messages, the feeling we want people to have, whether they're team members or clients when they come to this space? And then maybe from there, we can get to the logistics of, are there creative, cost-effective ways at least to improve what you've got without doing the tacky version, as you said, Meg, the lipstick on a pig type thing. But maybe with the intention of, okay, well, I've signed a lease and I'm in this space for the next two, three years. I can't get out of that for whatever reason. So maybe it's three to five, as you said, Neena, years down the track of, I actually have a much clearer idea of what the future clinic could look like, and it might be at a different location. But for now, there are things that perhaps I could do and be really intentional about that. I love that distinction of intentional design. Are there any resources, books, podcasts, talks that you would encourage people start to listen to? Because they kind of go through their learning journey of, all right, this is on my radar. No doubt having a conversation with either of you about this would be a tremendous activity for someone to do. But is there anything else that you encourage people if they want to kind of go deeper on designing intentional spaces I mean, I think there's a couple of different resources. In Canada, there's some really amazing coaches, clinician turned coaches out there. you know, and who have similar missions to yourself, right? There's some really amazing groups out there that, you know, our peers who really want, we want our peers to succeed. So I think just talking, networking with some of these people, you know, engaging in some of the retreats or conferences, I think those are amazing investments to make. I also think that like a business big or small should always undergo some sort of like branding exploration and I think there's some amazing talented professionals out there who can help with that. I think like when Meg and I take on clients either we're always saying right from the start you need to understand what your brand is and so you know it's nice when People have already done that and they have a really solid sense of the brand. And like, hopefully it jives with what we're thinking for the physical space, but otherwise we're collaborating with people's branding specialists so that we can create that seamless experience. But I think, you know, engaging in some of these other experts out there who are peers, so branding and coaches. I think that those are really amazing resources to just get a better understanding of the brand and the experience and the philosophy, um, Yeah. I'll jump in because I know, you know, this well, but. Um, we've really like kind of followed in close line with the experience economy by Joseph Pine. I mean, again, I think it circles back and, and we, I mean, I like to create a healthy amount of tension with the people we work with or the people who are curious to work with us to say. We get it. We understand that there's a million different ways to invest your money in your business and everyone's pulling at those. So I don't want to be tone deaf to that, but I do want people to be open-minded to all the ways in which really being thoughtful to Neena's point about a true brand articulation. And that's not just like making a logo and picking your colors. That's understanding your values, your mission, your plan, and then taking that and infusing it into your space. And it doesn't mean you need to work with us or even a professional designer, but putting that intention into the design and looking at it the same way you would invest in your EMR or your practice management. or your coach, or your accountant, or any of the vital pieces of the business people don't seem to question investing their money in. We just like to raise a flag for design and say, it's as important, and we think the return speaks for itself when people do go through that exercise. We just need to get better at collecting that data. But we see it, and we see the success that's just exponential. in places that just take the time and not rush it and. and do it well. And you know what, our favorite clients are often those that they started out a necessity of like, I made a logo myself, I picked my brand colors, I painted the walls, I've set up a place, and I'm five years in and now I really know myself, I know my practice, let's go to town. And that's like, that's just how it is for a lot of people. And we love that. And then they're ready to evolve and go to the next phase. And we're here for it. So I agree, I would be very interested in that data as well, the evidence to reinforce, but anecdotally, I'm with you. I see in our community, the clinics that have a premium, and I'll say premium in the sense, actually intentional is a better word, as you said, Neena, a really intentional design to their clinic. their experience, their brand. They're the ones that have no trouble recruiting. They're the ones that often have really full books. So anecdotally, I agree with you. I think those folks that do it, they see the results absolutely. And it's not overnight. And to your point, maybe there's that like, oh, is it going to work if I put all this time and money in? But Absolutely. I think we've probably all collectively got a number of clinics we could easily rattle off that said they've done this and you Yeah, we're often acting like the mom. to be clear of our clients to say, don't spend money on this. You know, it's not this, like, I think people think of designers, like everything's expensive. We're often saying like, okay, let's rein this in. You're just starting. And people are like ready to go. Um, so again, like to really hammer that point of design doesn't need to be expensive. It needs to be intentional. And even to that point, I know people listening hopefully haven't reduced it to have a great looking space and you'll attract clients and team members. I think the intentional design is even in creating a great place to work. It's like you said, do you have clear values and are you practicing those values? Do you have pathways for your team to grow with you? It's being intentional about how you actually create a business. So I really love that. That resonates a lot. We talk about the ASAP principle, which is as sustainable as possible. Everyone's trying to like do things really quick and find this hack and do this thing that gets immediate results. Sure, there are those things that you can do, but it's about playing a sustainable game. We believe at least, and to do that comes with great intention. I'm cautious to ask this question because it's so tailored, but I do want to know what are some trends you're seeing in clinic design at the moment? There's no doubt some timeless things that always play out. Some of those you've spoken to here about the intentional design, thinking about your practitioners and your clients and going deep on that and making it unique to that clinic. But what are some key trends? In what you're seeing in design, you spoke to the future of where things are going in healthcare. So just sort of cap it off, what are some key trends in clinic design I think one is technology. So having a more seamless journey from booking at home to checking in and receiving exercises and paying and your journey through a physical space. I think that's a huge one. I think also in our design, clinics seem to be trending, private clinics seem to be trending away from like communal open treatment spaces, unless they're attached to a gym and they're doing some fascial stretch and then kind of getting back into it. But I think there is definitely a desire for more private rooms. I think those are two trends that I have noticed. Everybody is saying to us that they want multiple Instagrammable spaces in their clinics. That is also like a very almost ubiquitous request is Instagrammable areas. Yeah. I'd say bringing the outdoors in is a big one, like a biophilic design. So plants, wood, stone, textures you'd find in nature. And there is actually a lot of great evidence to support that and how it really impacts health outcomes. So that's something we really try to incorporate and push for. Lighting, lighting's not really a trend. It's more of a soapbox we hop on, but I do think people are starting to also understand again from, you know, good quality research coming out about the lighting, how it affects people, how it affects our nervous system. And again, in a healthcare setting, this is just paramount, so important. So those are things that we really try to focus on within spaces. And then I guess there's the things we try to not focus on or pull people away from. And that is so many clinics are just carbon copies are kind of repeating the status quo. And I think we really try to push people, whether it's clients we're working with or what we put out into the universe for all clinicians to say, like, really challenge that narrative of like walking in and the feature wall with your logo and the big reception desk and the like five, you know, kind of plastic or vinyl chairs and the treatment rooms, like really, like let go of all of what you've seen and just spitball and be super creative and then you can rein it in but really challenge just doing what has been done The interesting part about the Instagrammable, I take that as more marketable spaces. If you saw this, you'd be like, I want to work there. That looks like a really cool place to be part of. I would say similar. We see a lot of that. And I've seen a number of clinics do it really quite well and connect social walls. with their brand and people posting. So yeah, there's some really neat ways to go about it. I found Pinterest as a really great, you know, place and space to find some inspiration. But I like that question that you mentioned at the top of this conversation around, you know, what are some spaces that you really enjoy going to? And how do they make you feel? For me, I love cafes. When you go to a really cool cafe, that's kind of my space. So I would definitely be going down that line of thinking and discussion. But even starting at that point, I think such a practical thing for people listening or watching in is to explore some of these questions themselves. And then, of course, to have a conversation with you, what does that look like? Talk us through if someone's like, yes, I just need someone to really help me out with this. You are the experts here. What People can get in touch with us through, they can go to our website, or they can message us on Instagram. I don't know if you want me to share that here now, but yeah, so our website's articulatedesignco.com. And there's a contact form there where you can give us a little bit of information or context. And we always set up a 20 minute discovery call. I will say that 80% probably of our projects are completely virtual. So we work all over the world. We're currently based in Canada. Um, but that hasn't sort of stopped us from, from doing projects everywhere. And really we just try to tease out if we're a good fit, if what you're looking for resonates with our values, right? If truly your intentions of what you want to create resonate with us as a company. And then we kind of take it from there. You can also follow us on Instagram, articulatedesignco is our handle. And we're not great at it but we try to stay on top of it and and at least hopefully post some things that will have you questioning or or you know um auditing where you're at in your journey and you know we we post a lot of the projects that we do do as we do them and a lot of people kind of sit in the weeds there for a while and we actually quite like that because you get to learn a lot about how we work and what we do and the places that we serve. So those are two really great options for anyone. Fantastic. That's really good. I have been following along and it's always good to see what you're working on. Many moons ago, when the Experience Economy book came out from Joseph Pine, we've had Joseph on now twice on the podcast. We kept getting asked about, you know, clinic designs. Is there any inspiration? So we created a very limited Pinterest board and would send people there and say, you know, go down the rabbit hole on, you know, related designs. But it's really cool to be able to connect in with what you do and see what you're doing. Some examples of how people are creating intentional spaces. I just love that. That's really cool. Well, Meg, Neena, thank you so much for sharing. I just love being able to cover how this is more than just a pretty space. It is about creating a great place to work and to heal or for wellness of patients as well and being intentional the whole way through. Yes, certainly resonates with the clink mastery values of being very purpose driven about building a sustainable clinic. Well, we will wrap the show. All the show notes will be over at clinkmastery.com. We'll put all of those handles and links to the company and the Instagram profile in the show notes here. So people, hopefully you get lots of people reach out to you and have a call and see whether they can turn their space into something really that fits their brand and their Thanks. All right, we'll wrap there and see you on another episode very Thanks for tuning in to the Grow Your Clinic podcast. To find out more about past episodes or how we can help you head to www.clinicmastery.com forward slash podcast. And please remember to rate and review us on