Open Comments - Episode 22: Round Table Talk: The Open Group Professional Certification (Open Professions) Program with Andras Szakal, Deborah Schoonover, and Tony Black

Unlock the secrets of career progression with the Open Professions certification program, as we sit down with Andras Szakal, VP CTO of The Open Group, Deborah Schoonover, Director of Certification, The Open Group, and Tony Black from Kyndryl. These industry stalwarts take us through a journey that's less about textbooks and more about triumphs, with a certification path that respects practical skills and real-world projects. Listen closely as they recount their own career advancements, illustrating the transformative power of the Open Professions program. It’s a session filled with personal success stories and insightful tips on how you can standardize your skills and showcase your professional journey like never before.

The labyrinth of certification can often be intimidating, but our guests map out a clear and structured pathway for you to follow. From the introduction of a new milestone-based approach to the unveiling of an associate data science credential, this program ensures that regardless of where you are in your career, there’s a stepping stone waiting for you. As we dissect the shift from informal networks to a merit-based progression system, you'll be empowered to take charge of your career trajectory. Promise yourself a future where your achievements are recognized and validated, and let this episode be the compass that guides you there.

Resources:
https://certification.opengroup.org/open-professions
https://www.opengroup.org/certifications

Copyright © The Open Group 2023-2024. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Open Comments with myself, ash Me Oliver.

Speaker 2: 0:05

And me Irene.

Speaker 1: 0:06

We are joined by Andras Zakal, vp CTO the Open Group, deborah Skunova, director Certification the Open Group, and Tony Black, healthcare Live Sciences Technical Leader Kindrel.

Speaker 3: 0:19

So please could you tell all of our listeners individually just a bit about each of you and what you do and what your role is when it comes to open professions.

Speaker 4: 0:31

Hey, this is Andras. Thanks guys for having us on. Well, I am the vice president of technology within the open group and I also have responsibility executive responsibility of working with folks like Debra, who helped leads our certification, and I helped shepherd the development of the standards side, and I've been, you know, participating in the development of, and I was the profession leader within IBM and have at least a couple of certifications that I can recall. So I think it's a fantastic program and I'm happy to be here to talk about it.

Speaker 5: 1:17

I'm Deborah Schoonover. With the Open Group, I'm director of certification. I have responsibility for the kind of implementation and operation of the Open Professions program, and so that will build the program based on the requirements that are defined by the membership and then we run the team that operates the program on a day-to-day basis.

Speaker 6: 1:38

This is Tony Black. I am the current chair of the Open Professions board, as well as a member of the board of directors on the Open Group. The Open Professions Board actually oversees the disciplines for, namely, technical specialists, architects, data science, data scientists, and I happen to be the global leader for the technical specialist profession at Kindrel, which is my day job, where I am involved in healthcare, privacy and digital transformation.

Speaker 2: 2:08

Thank you all for being here. So can you give us an overview of what the Open's profession certification encompasses?

Speaker 4: 2:15

Tony, since you're the chair, why don't you go ahead and take that first?

Speaker 6: 2:18

The Open Professions Board itself oversees technical specialists, architects, data scientists, discipline. Technical specialists, architects, data scientists, discipline. Each one of those have their own certification paths that we go through and their own levels of attainment. So it's really about it's really a career focused type of certification where you would build upon gradually as you get involved and get engaged in various types of projects, various types of initiatives, and obtain various experiences as you navigate through different types of roles and responsibilities. And that's just one aspect from it. I'll pass it over to Deborah now if she wants to actually talk about it some more.

Speaker 5: 3:00

I would say the Open Professions Program is a skills and experience-based program. So we're not looking at somebody's kind of specific knowledge in one area, but we're looking at what they've done in their career over time and having peer review, evaluation of their experiences, their work experiences in the various areas.

Speaker 4: 3:20

Yeah, that's really good guys. I mean Tony did forget that we have open, trusted technology practitioners as a group also in the program. Obviously, supply chain security is a new and growing field, so we're looking for folks that are interested in getting certified there. You know I think Debra said it really well that you know there is a difference between having skills and taking knowledge-based training courses. Those are really important to teach you these.

Speaker 4: 3:59

You know skills that you need, but what this program does and what an employer often asks their prospective employees is tell us about your experience. And that's also the question that employers ask as you move through your career into different job levels and levels of responsibility. So this program kind of grew out of a group of members and companies who had similar programs but were looking for an opportunity to standardize and have an open kind of level playing field, recognizing what it actually means to, from the conformance criteria point of view you know, become certified at the different levels within open professions. So this helps answer the question you know not only what skills or classes have you taken or university degrees you have, but where are you actually been successful in applying that knowledge to real life successful projects?

Speaker 1: 5:17

And on that note, can you provide any examples of success stories from the application of the Open Professions program, tony, I mean, you guys are a walking success story, right. Examples of success stories from the application of the open?

Speaker 4: 5:25

professions program. Tony, I mean, you guys are a walking success story, right but with the open professions program.

Speaker 6: 5:33

I mean, when you, when you talk about the talk about the various successes, it's all about building, it's all about building upon one another. Right, you start off. It's a combination of obtaining the skills, obtaining the, obtaining the knowledge, gaining the experiences and then cultivating that with various credentials and certifications. So you build, so you do build upon it. And, yes, I am a walking success story. As Andra said, I've actually obtained level three thought leadership in both technical specialists as well as architect architect profession. So it's a combination of the skills, the initiatives, the experiences, but, more so, understanding the different types of certifications and credentials that I that I want to actually collect and build upon so I could actually deliver a message and have a certain persona and what I want to illustrate to prospective employers and other colleagues about how I want to be represented, what are my skills and capabilities and what types of accomplishments and achievements that I've received. So that's really how I've built upon it and that's how I encourage others to do the same. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 6:45

I mean for me, I actually joined my previous company, ibm, which is an ACP, an accredited organization, and I became level one and level two certified.

Speaker 4: 7:00

That helped me, you know, kind of grow and become eventually a highly banded architect leader and then ultimately enabled me to become a distinguished engineer and vice president. So for me it was really, you know, all about gaining the cachet and recognizing in your own way, you know because you're forced to actually write this down and make the case right what it is you actually did and why you did it case right, what it is you actually did and why you did it. And that makes you think in the future about like well, I better have a good reason for being involved in this project and what is the outcome going to be and is it going to be successful and is it impactful to the organization and business. But I think a really great example of this will be Deborah, talking about the growth especially of the direct certification. Deborah, I mean, you've seen this thing grow from you know all the way at the ground level yes, we have seen this grow a lot.

Speaker 5: 8:09

In fact, we launched what we call our milestone-based certification program in 2020. And since then we have seen the number of applications coming in each year double. So it's growing at a very good pace. And going back to the bit about kind of success stories, I have talked to two different organizations recently who value the fact that this is a global, internationally recognized certification and so they are interested in having people get certified so that it's not just saying, well, yes, they have experience or they're recognized by people within their country or, you know, within a limited space, but that the certification they get is portable and recognize that they're meeting the same criteria that people across the globe are meeting, and so that I have seen multiple organizations find value in that.

Speaker 4: 9:04

When you say portable, you mean like, if I get a certification, for example over at Kendrell with Tony, I can take it with me after I leave or go somewhere else, right?

Speaker 5: 9:17

Absolutely. You talked about our ACP model. So that is where a large organization will run a certification program internally to certify their people and we accredit the organization to make sure that their program meets the same requirements as our open professions direct certifications, and so we will recognize and award an equivalent certification to people in those organizations. Now that certification is specific to the individual. It's about their work experiences and their career, and so it's useful within the organization that they're in, sometimes for promotions and development opportunities there. But it is also useful as they transfer to other organizations within the industry. That certification goes with them and has the same value and is recognized in their career development as they move their career through different organizations.

Speaker 2: 10:17

Deborah, I heard you mention that it's a global certification, so do you know off the top of your head how many countries are currently within or have that certification? Yeah, excuse me.

Speaker 5: 10:29

So we have over 7,500 active certifications right now, and by active I mean these are people who are getting certified and maintaining their certification through recertification, so they're current. We have those in 76 countries, and so there there is testament to the fact that this really is a globally, inter, internationally recognized certification wow, 76 countries.

Speaker 4: 10:57

Yeah, I mean I've been on boards, for you know people in faraway places, you know even in emerging countries in Africa. So it's certainly a way by which people can show their credentials and grow their career credentials and grow their career and look it just grows the community itself, because now part of the certification conformance criteria is actually your responsibility to grow the community itself in which you're part of.

Speaker 3: 11:33

It sounds like having this open professions certification is such a valuable method of obtaining certification whilst you're working or showcasing what you're doing. So what was the trigger for the creation of this? Because, if you compare it to other certifications of the open group, they don't have the same format. What was the trigger point that led to the creation of this?

Speaker 4: 12:01

So originally when we came together it was a discussion in the architecture forum in the you know late, you know like around 1998. And this program has been around for a while. So it's been growing and maturing. But around 2000, 2001, we had some of the larger companies and service organizations begin to believe that it was good to create a standard that mirrored some of the expectations that they had within their company. They called it different things, they called it credentialing, they called it certification, they called it professional accreditation, all sorts of different things. But when we came together and we signed the NDAs to work together and, you know, kind of peeled back the onion, it was very similar across many of these organizations and we took all those similarities and we turned it into a formal program for both, you know, large organizations to be accredited and for individuals to be certified.

Speaker 6: 13:15

You mentioned that it's different than the other certifications in the open group. It's also different than other certifications that you're going to find out and you're going to find in technology and in various industries as well. Right, Because all certifications are not created equal. There are a sea of certifications out there.

Speaker 4: 13:34

There certainly is a sea of those certifications out there.

Speaker 2: 13:45

But not all of them are. Are, you know, evaluating experience right? So when in someone's career would you recommend them to start looking at the certifications?

Speaker 4: 13:50

Early right, debra, I mean early.

Speaker 5: 13:53

Yeah, we, we have kind of certifications at three different levels so we recognize people throughout their career. So once someone starts working and starts getting some real work experience as an architect, a technical specialist, a data science or a trusted technology practitioner, they then start gaining enough experience to fill out, you know, a milestone application that describes that particular work project that they're on. So, like I mentioned, this milestone-based approach, this is something that was introduced in 2020 as a way to break the overall application process down into small, consumable chunks, and so we used to have this kind of monolithic application. It was like filling out this massive 50-page resume that people did. We've broken that down to make it easier for people to get started and to do a little bit.

Speaker 5: 14:49

So there's people earn, say, four to five milestone applications, depending on the level of certification they're going for, and then they have their final peer review interviews for certification.

Speaker 5: 15:02

But it allows them to get feedback as they go through the process.

Speaker 5: 15:08

So they'll they'll submit a professional communication application which just talks about different ways that they are delivering communications, both verbally and written, within their organization on the projects that they are delivering communications, both verbally and written, within their organization, on the projects that they're already working on, and the criteria for someone at our lower levels is that they may be doing that with support and mentoring from more senior people.

Speaker 5: 15:32

As they go through to level two, the focus is on leadership, and then you've got executive level, more strategic thinking at level three, and so the requirements, kind of you know, increase as you move out, but certainly as people start out, there is an ability to get certified early on in your career with a couple years experience. And then, within the data science area, we have recently introduced an associate data science credential that is targeted at people who may have taken a kind of capstone course in college and had some real work experience or, are you know, early in switching into their data science career and have just started working on, you know, their first project. They should then have enough experience to go for this credential. That will kind of be the first step in their career journey, and then they would, when they get a little more experience, they'd move on to their level one certification and so on so it's not to overload someone right at the start.

Speaker 5: 16:36

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 16:37

Well, we're not trying to overload them with how the program functions, but we do have a really good idea of what it means to progress through your career, defined by the conformance criteria or the expected experience at each level. So that's really what you know, deborah, and everybody is saying is that you know that's how you actually have a career path. You know this is a really great way. Some companies call this technical ladder um, and you know they don't have any real criteria behind. You know that. Or open, visible criteria. It's about whose buddy. You know what manager you get along with best. I mean, the companies that embraced this program, of which there are many, realized that you know kind of, especially in this day and age, there has to be a level playing field for how you evaluate people, and how you evaluate technical people from a business point of view is how successful are they in contributing to the business through their capabilities? And that's exactly what Open Professions is designed to do, and that's exactly what Open Professions is designed to do.

Speaker 2: 18:02

How long does the I know? Since it's a milestone journey, it's probably I'm assuming that it's up to the specific person on how long it takes them to get certified. So how long is you know, or on average would you say it takes for someone to reach that first certification?

Speaker 5: 18:21

To reach the first certification. We say that they should have kind of two to three years experience in their career to, you know, practicing in their profession in order to get certified. But they can start as soon as they've, you know, worked on one project. We have something called an experience profile that will look at, you know, a given work project and go into detail on what you've done in that, so they can start to earn these milestone badges prior to being ready to go for certification. In fact, we've seen a lot of people now who started out with a couple of applications and are now kind of getting to the end stage and going through certification and, you know, achieving their certification after having started a while ago in earning their bids. But there's quite a few people that are now coming through to fruition on that.

Speaker 6: 19:18

And I would add, once they get started in their career, then you start to see different paths, right, you start to see some folks, the aggressive ones, they really take off right, Because as soon as those initiatives, those projects come your way, you jump on those, you get these, you get the badges, you get the certs and you keep running. Others, you know, may sit back and wait on the projects to be to come to them or wait to be asked to be put on a certain initiatives and certain teams. So after the first couple of years, after like maybe year four, they start to spread out a little bit.

Speaker 4: 19:54

Tony, I guess one of the things you're saying is that it kind of sets the pace in some of these companies that have adopted open professions, of what's expected you know and how you actually move forward. I mean, before open professions, tell us you know what, what it's like, what it, what it would have been like, you know, uh, in your organizations had it not been there exactly, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1: 20:24

Now, before we wrap up, we'd like to ask where can everyone find more information about Open Professions and beyond, and what resources would you recommend to?

Speaker 5: 20:41

them if they want to learn more about this program. I mean, we have information on our website, obviously for under certifications that describes the program and the requirements for each certification that help people understand what is expected in terms of skills and experience for each of the certifications and at each level and kind of the depths of skill and the specific requirements. That's a piece of it.

Speaker 4: 21:22

And we have some really good videos on our youtube channel of some folks who have including you, tony uh having, uh, you know, kind of presented at several of the con, uh, you know, conferences on this subject, so go check those out yes, there are some good testimonials on there, uh, spewing some good information, talking about everyone giving their perspective, their history, their experience of how they went about it, and you'll notice that everyone takes a different path.

Speaker 6: 21:55

You know what's meaningful, what's relevant and what and what works for them right, and that's really the great thing about about laying this, laying out a plan and going along this journey. You can set the pace and you can take control of it and you guide yourself. But it's good getting others' perspectives so you can understand and see some examples of how others went about it and did it, and there's more than one way to be successful, and that's really what we're and that's really what the what the end goal here is. It's not we're not creating, we're not. It's not a factory and assembly line where we're just chopping, chopping it up and creating a lot of, a lot of mini me's. It's not it. It's. It's an opportunity here to grow, to strengthen your acumen, to make yourself professionally, technically attractive and give yourself the opportunity to grow, and you can do it in many different ways and you can customize it in a way that's meaningful and useful to make yourself successful.

Speaker 4: 23:02

And evaluated by your peers. Somebody has to do that assessment right, so peer review is one of the best ways of making that happen.

Speaker 6: 23:13

So that's one of the program's hallmarks, some new offerings, some new ways to assist and mentor and have office hours and have and just really assist and guide and advise and consult candidates as they go through this journey, because it is a journey. Right, we're talking about career focused, career based certifications. It's not the only, and when we talk and when Debra mentioned that number of people who had those active certifications, you gotta remember those folks have multiple certs. They have ours, but they have other certifications as well. We're talking about some very, some pretty aggressive, highly motivated individuals out here, right, some really strong learners who really are taking their taking their career and taking their growth very seriously. Right, and we're part of that.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Thank you. We'd like to thank you all for coming on the Open Comments podcast and we hope our listeners enjoy this episode as much as we did in learning about open professions and beyond, and we'd also like to thank all our listeners who've been tuning into open comments. Stay safe and see you soon, thank you.