Acres of Wealth: Ella Hardy's Guide to Navigating Land Profits

Tune in to today's podcast where Athena is joined by Ella Hardy - a specialist in land development with a passion for maximising profits through planning uplifts. In this episode, Ella openly shares the highs and lows of her journey in the land sector of the property industry. Discover what it's like for her to wear the crown as the 'queen of land' while gracefully managing the responsibilities of being a full-time mum!

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Disclaimer: None of the content in our podcast is intended to constitute legal or financial advice. All interviews and statements are the thoughts & opinions of the hosts and guests themselves and should be...

Transcript

[Athena Dobson]: 0:00

Good morning everyone. Happy Monday and welcome to today's edition of the Girls in Property podcast. It is the first, well, it's the first of February today, but by the time that the podcast actually comes out, it is going to be the fifth. So an amazing start to the month. And today I'm joined by the incredible Ella Harding. Hi Ella.

[Ella Hardy]: 0:20

Hi! Hello everyone! I'm so excited to be on. Super excited. You'll have to bear with me, my cat may join us, so it may be me and Blue.

[Athena Dobson]: 0:32

Blue, I love that name. What an incredible name for a cat. I love that. And you know what? That's what life is all about, isn't it? It's like my cat may join me or someone else may join me and Blue is more than welcome on the podcast as well.

[Ella Hardy]: 0:46

No, it's great. I'm so excited to be on and to talk all of it about land and us women in property. I'm super excited to chat about it.

[Athena Dobson]: 0:56

Perfect, well this was the thing, I've been really wanting to get you on because I get a lot of different types of questions for the Girls in Property podcast and it's great for girls to hear from all different aspects of the property world and not just one or two. And what was important to me also was, was I didn't wanna just concentrate and focus on strategies that I know really well so I feel like within the podcast I can be really clued up. I wanted to bring in... bring in women who are empowered in other topics that I necessarily don't know as much about. And you're of course the queen of land

[Ella Hardy]: 1:28

Yeah,

[Athena Dobson]: 1:29

and you know, you're probably going to gain

[Ella Hardy]: 1:30

I love

[Athena Dobson]: 1:30

and

[Ella Hardy]: 1:30

this title.

[Athena Dobson]: 1:31

you're

[Ella Hardy]: 1:31

Can I keep that? Can I use that

[Athena Dobson]: 1:33

going

[Ella Hardy]: 1:33

one?

[Athena Dobson]: 1:33

to win. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. I officially knight you queen of land.

[Ella Hardy]: 1:39

Okay. I love that.

[Athena Dobson]: 1:40

But it's great. And within your sort of sector as well, I'm sure, and you'll tell us more about this, I'm sure it's very kind of male dominated and not so many women in the industry. And I think that's what's so great about it. I really want to hear from you. I want to hear, quite frankly, I want to learn as well.

[Ella Hardy]: 1:55

Yeah?

[Athena Dobson]: 1:55

And the questions I'm going to be asking you are me almost thinking to myself, I kind of want to know the answers to these questions because I want to learn about land. So let's

[Ella Hardy]: 2:04

Yes, well I'm here

[Athena Dobson]: 2:05

learn

[Ella Hardy]: 2:05

to give

[Athena Dobson]: 2:05

together.

[Ella Hardy]: 2:05

you all of the answers. I'll give you all of the answers today, anything land related and of course if anybody has any further questions then they can feel free to reach out to me.

[Athena Dobson]: 2:14

Okay, perfect. So let's get started. First and foremost, can you please introduce yourself so anyone who has not met you before spoken to you? Who are you? What do you do? And just tell us something interesting about yourself.

[Ella Hardy]: 2:28

So my name's Ella. I am really a land buyer. I've been a land buyer. That was my title when I was employed. For over 10 years, I've worked for some really big development companies like Bovis and Linden Homes. now known as a Vistri. I have worked for lots of smaller developers as well, being a land buyer, so anything land related. Before that I was an estate agent, so have been in property since I came out of college, so property is all I know. My partner is also in property and has done all of the serviced accommodations for internet and that type of thing. So we are a... property household. And yeah, so I now run land profits where we look at land and planning uplifts. And that's what I really specialize in is gaining planning on sites and selling them on to developers and making the profit in that. I'm also a mum of two small gremlins, I'm going to call them today. They are gremlins today. And they are gorgeous, but they are gremlins and they are three in one. So they are in the difficult stage. So I'm also running a business whilst being a mum, which is super, super important as well. So I try and spend as much time with them, especially as these years are short, the days are long, but the years are short, as we're told. And I remind myself every day. So I try and spend as much time with them as possible. That's why I do land because it creates me high profits whilst I'm able to spend as much time at home, which is brilliant. I think a lot of mums need that and want that and that's really what my idea behind this all was. You know that I wanted to have children, I was a land buyer, I was employed by a corporate company, I wanted to... I wanted to have the freedom. I wanted to have the money that I knew that I could have made when I was making them from someone else and getting commission, but I wanted to make that for myself and have the freedom so that I could spend time with my children and not be stuck in an office or stuck working from home and actually be able to take them out and do things. And yeah, so that's kind of really what that was. I don't think there's much more interesting about me other than that I love a holiday or five.

[Athena Dobson]: 4:53

Well, you know me, you know I could talk to you about that all day long.

[Ella Hardy]: 4:56

Yeah, I do love a plane!

[Athena Dobson]: 4:59

Absolutely. Do you know what? What a fantastic introduction. I was listening to that thinking, go on girl.

[Ella Hardy]: 5:04

No.

[Athena Dobson]: 5:04

Like I'm sure there were so many other people listening to that, you know, particularly women, but also, you know, the men that listen to this as well, the fathers

[Ella Hardy]: 5:11

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 5:11

out there. And thinking, do you know what? You're absolutely right. Like I am a female boss and I'm absolutely rocking what I'm doing, but I'm a mum. I'm a mum at the same time. And I think that's so important. And I want to, I want to talk to you about that down the line a little bit, because it's that whole element of really finding the right balance as it were between when do you put your mum hat on and when do you put kind of your business hat on. And I think that a lot of people listening to the podcast will really resonate with that,

[Ella Hardy]: 5:37

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 5:37

but what an intro. Go on, girl. Like love it. Love it.

[Ella Hardy]: 5:41

Thank you. Thank you. I mean, the biggest thing for me, and I know you're probably going to lead me on here, so I'm probably going to cut you in, but I'm super excited to share because I am very excited about this, that myself and my team currently have, and this is what's going to be celebrated for.

[Athena Dobson]: 5:58

I was just going to say, this is, I just like to say it's part of the podcast structure. This is your celebration. So what are you celebrating?

[Ella Hardy]: 6:04

I am celebrating massively that me and the land profits community from I've just been doing my KPIs, been looking at all the healthy deals that are coming in. We've got a profit of 1.4 million pounds this year. I know how

[Athena Dobson]: 6:21

that

[Ella Hardy]: 6:21

incredible.

[Athena Dobson]: 6:21

one more time.

[Ella Hardy]: 6:22

1.4 million pounds worth of profit this year.

[Athena Dobson]: 6:26

Wow, I mean that

[Ella Hardy]: 6:28

I mean

[Athena Dobson]: 6:28

pure profit?

[Ella Hardy]: 6:29

profit. That is net profit.

[Athena Dobson]: 6:32

Wow,

[Ella Hardy]: 6:32

Taking

[Athena Dobson]: 6:32

from lambs.

[Ella Hardy]: 6:33

away piano costs, that is literally net profit, which is incredible.

[Athena Dobson]: 6:38

Wow. And you know what? There is so much money to be made in land, like so many people who talk about land really do say how much profit is to be made.

[Ella Hardy]: 6:45

Yeah, I mean any of my deals currently that I'm working on, they range from, and I'm talking net profits here, you know, taking away that planning costs. They range from anywhere from £100,000 all the way up to kind of £700,000, which is insane. And we're not even stepping foot on site. We're not taking out any finance. It is literally just... paying for planning and then selling the headache on as I call it. Selling that stress, a headache, that time spent on sigh. I don't like the cold, I hate being on sigh. So I prefer to be at home, in the warm, getting the planning and selling that on.

[Athena Dobson]: 7:26

Amazing. So I'm going to touch on this massively with you because a lot of people, for example, don't even know what we're talking about. We're talking about, you know, planning gain and everything like that. So let's really address that before we do. So that's your celebration, which is a huge celebration. Like you should be so, so proud of yourself. Like celebrate that and know how well you've done. So well done. And it just proves

[Ella Hardy]: 7:49

Let's do it.

[Athena Dobson]: 7:50

how profitable land can be. Absolutely.

[Ella Hardy]: 7:52

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 7:53

Um, in regards to my personal celebration, and we mentioned this just before I came on the podcast. So as some of you know, I am, I officially launched my, um, property accelerator program last night, which is very exciting.

[Ella Hardy]: 8:07

Yay!

[Athena Dobson]: 8:08

Um,

[Ella Hardy]: 8:08

So

[Athena Dobson]: 8:08

I

[Ella Hardy]: 8:08

exciting.

[Athena Dobson]: 8:08

hosted a webinar, which was so lovely. I think we had about 72 people on the webinar, which was just epic. Terrifying.

[Ella Hardy]: 8:15

I think first one in 72 is huge. You should be super, super proud.

[Athena Dobson]: 8:21

Thank you. Yeah, it was amazing. It was terrifying, but amazing.

[Ella Hardy]: 8:25

Yeah,

[Athena Dobson]: 8:25

And what

[Ella Hardy]: 8:26

that

[Athena Dobson]: 8:26

was

[Ella Hardy]: 8:26

was the

[Athena Dobson]: 8:26

so

[Ella Hardy]: 8:26

entire

[Athena Dobson]: 8:26

lovely.

[Ella Hardy]: 8:26

point.

[Athena Dobson]: 8:27

Yeah. And, you know, a lot of the questions that were on the, on the webinar, and I just wanted to sort of say it on the podcast, cause I think it's so important. I really do. They were sort of saying, you know, why did you decide to, to create this program as it were? And the answer to it is when I really thought about it was in all honesty, I'm almost trying to create a movement within the property world and property sector. where for me personally, when I started in property, there were so many of these big companies that were trying to sell you this pipe dream of getting into the property world.

[Ella Hardy]: 8:59

There's

[Athena Dobson]: 8:59

Get rich

[Ella Hardy]: 8:59

a loop.

[Athena Dobson]: 8:59

quick in 90 days, buy my course for 10,000 pounds and I will solve all of your prayers and answers like an Aladdin lamp. And I bought into all of it. I bought into the dream, I bought into everything. I parted with, now in training, I calculated the other day, I parted with at least about 20,000 pounds worth of money to learn about property.

[Ella Hardy]: 9:19

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 9:19

And I thought to myself, do you know what? I want to make a change in this world. I want to do something different and have that value of it. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to create an actual genuine product, which is actually what people, um, could really use to catapult themselves within the industry and not needing to spend anywhere near that kind of price tag. And rather than actually just selling it. We have to buy this one course to buy another course, to buy another course, to buy another course, cause that's how they teach it. And that's how

[Ella Hardy]: 9:48

Mm-hmm.

[Athena Dobson]: 9:48

they sell it.

[Ella Hardy]: 9:49

Is

[Athena Dobson]: 9:49

I

[Ella Hardy]: 9:49

this

[Athena Dobson]: 9:49

said,

[Ella Hardy]: 9:49

sales

[Athena Dobson]: 9:49

no, I'm going

[Ella Hardy]: 9:49

for

[Athena Dobson]: 9:49

to,

[Ella Hardy]: 9:49

now?

[Athena Dobson]: 9:50

yeah, I'm going

[Ella Hardy]: 9:51

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 9:51

to do a one-stop shop. I'm like, do you know what? Here is everything you need. If you want to get into HMOs, buy to let service accommodation, raising finance, mapping out action plans. Here are the analyzers. Here's your toolkit.

[Ella Hardy]: 10:02

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 10:02

Here's your analyzers. Here's your contracts. Here's your templates. Like I just wish that almost if I had this option, when I first started, I could have saved myself 20,000 pounds. Um,

[Ella Hardy]: 10:13

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 10:14

and so that's what I decided was the reason I wanted to start this and to give everyone who wants. to start in property or even grow their portfolio and diversify their income, a chance to really do that. And that's why I created it. So hopefully I'm gonna do more webinars about it, teach obviously people as I go, and to really just create a movement. And I want people to come on the movement with me to sort of fight against those big dogs who think that they can just take all your money and do nothing with it and

[Ella Hardy]: 10:41

I'm

[Athena Dobson]: 10:41

create

[Ella Hardy]: 10:41

on this

[Athena Dobson]: 10:41

change.

[Ella Hardy]: 10:42

movement with you. I'm here. I'm here for it. I love it. I've been

[Athena Dobson]: 10:45

Thank

[Ella Hardy]: 10:45

showing

[Athena Dobson]: 10:46

you!

[Ella Hardy]: 10:46

about this for ages. I'm sick of people taking people's money and not saying, not doing what they say they're going to do. And it's

[Athena Dobson]: 10:55

Yes.

[Ella Hardy]: 10:55

actually just a sales funnel and they will con you for more money. And it's,

[Athena Dobson]: 10:59

Yes.

[Ella Hardy]: 10:59

do you know what? It gives people the wrong name. And I'm continuously fighting other people saying, no, you're just. you're just ripping us off and I'm like, no, I'm here to help. And I'm actually here to make you more money. And we make money together. And I think like that's something that I have done as well is I've created a program where I actually am the investor and that's a huge win for me is that because I feel like a load of people, you know, starting out on property is great and getting property education is great. Sometimes people don't have the money to get going and they don't have that money to waste. And I'm kind of here to give that. I will be your investor. I've got the cash, you know, I will teach you everything and then I'll invest in you too. You know,

[Athena Dobson]: 11:41

Yeah.

[Ella Hardy]: 11:41

and then it's a win-win for both parties. And I feel like there's so many educators out there instead of doing what they say they're gonna do in property, they are just an education company. That's all they are.

[Athena Dobson]: 11:55

Well, I think the question that people out there, if you're listening to this and you're really thinking about growing and diversifying your portfolio or actually just getting started in property is to really think to yourself, is the person who is going to be teaching me actually doing what they are at the moment? So for example, you're doing land. So you're currently showing that you're doing your land developments. I'm currently in the buy to let HMO and service accommodation world. I'm not there trying to teach you commercial conversions and I'm not there trying to teach you land because I don't do that as a strategy. I don't understand

[Ella Hardy]: 12:23

Yeah,

[Athena Dobson]: 12:23

it. So I'm not

[Ella Hardy]: 12:24

yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 12:24

going to... I'm not going to bullshit you into pretending that I know what I'm talking about. I'm just there to teach you what I have learned from my experiences and my, quite frankly, massive mistakes and teach you how to go forward. So that's what I'm here to represent. So I'm going to celebrate that today.

[Ella Hardy]: 12:37

Yeah, you celebrate that because that's great something I also saw about just a little bit off subject But something I thought about is I would love for there to be Property taught in schools in like maybe slightly

[Athena Dobson]: 12:50

Yes.

[Ella Hardy]: 12:51

higher education like maybe you know, you're seven year eight year nine year ten year eleven obviously early years, but you know maybe even like years 10 and 11, you know, let's get this conversation started in school. Let's talk about mortgages, let's talk about that type of stuff. I really feel like that needs to be in school and

[Athena Dobson]: 13:08

Yeah.

[Ella Hardy]: 13:08

I have looked into it several times about right, how am I going to start campaigning about this because I really feel like it needs to be taught in school for sure.

[Athena Dobson]: 13:17

No, I love that. And you know what, even just basic business acumen as well

[Ella Hardy]: 13:22

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 13:22

and profit margins and tax and all of that. Like I so wish that I would have had that option as well. So absolutely, let's get in schools, let's teach everyone and let's educate everyone, absolutely. So,

[Ella Hardy]: 13:33

You'll find us there.

[Athena Dobson]: 13:34

right. Right, so let's talk about how you've managed to make over a million pound profit. First of all, let's really talk about the basics so that everyone can get on the same page and know what it is We're actually referring to and talking about so for somebody who literally has no idea about land and they just see a piece Of grass and with a cow on it and that's all they know.

[Ella Hardy]: 13:54

I'm going to go

[Athena Dobson]: 13:55

Let's

[Ella Hardy]: 13:55

to bed.

[Athena Dobson]: 13:55

start with the basics So what is kind of how do you get into it? What is it? Like I'm even gonna learn my thing regards to planning gain and building. What do you do?

[Ella Hardy]: 14:05

What do I do? So what I do is I find in-fill development opportunities, and now that's a planning policy term. In-fill development opportunities means that you're in-filling land that's already allocated for residential use. Okay? So when we're looking at land that you've got a cow on it, that's not residential use, that's agricultural use. So we're not going to be looking at those types of land deals. We're going to be looking at the smaller land deals, usually back gardens. That's what they usually are. back gardens, side gardens, knockdown of one unit into multiple units. We're going for the infill development opportunities. And once you start to see them, you will see them everywhere. They have been going on for years and years and years. And what infill means is that means that it will go through planning a lot quicker than any of these larger big schemes that are outside of the settlement boundary. And what when I say settlement boundary. A settlement boundary is a defined area of a town. It's on your planning policy map as a defined settlement boundary of a town, which means inside of that is residential use, pretty much, or it could be commercial use, but mainly residential use. So that's what we look for. We look for sites inside the settlement boundary that are in-field development sites. We look to gain planning on the sites, planning permission. put them through the planning process, and then we sell them on to a developer. How we secure our sites is we secure them under what's called an option agreement. Now, I'm sure a lot of people, they always come to me, is it similar to a lease option? It is, yes, it is. However, you take the lease part away from the agreement. So you option the land, so what that means is that you have rights over the title. for an X amount of period of time, which means that you can go away and you can get planning for the land and then you can pay for the land. So you don't have to pay for the land until you've got planning. So it really takes that risk factor out of it, that you're not paying for a site that doesn't have planning potential. Because what you are doing is that you are securing it at X price without planning, and you are selling it with planning for Y price. And that is where you make your group profit in between. The profit is always worked out on a percentage of the GDV. A GDV is a gross development value, if anyone doesn't know. So we always look at the site's potential, which is working out the GDV, and then we work out a percentage of that for our profit.

[Athena Dobson]: 16:49

Wow, interesting, see I'd never been explained it like that before, so I'm learning as much as the listeners right now. I'm

[Ella Hardy]: 16:55

I'm not going

[Athena Dobson]: 16:55

with

[Ella Hardy]: 16:55

to

[Athena Dobson]: 16:55

the

[Ella Hardy]: 16:55

do

[Athena Dobson]: 16:55

listeners

[Ella Hardy]: 16:55

it.

[Athena Dobson]: 16:56

on this one. So for example, how long could planning take for

[Ella Hardy]: 17:00

Okay,

[Athena Dobson]: 17:00

something like this?

[Ella Hardy]: 17:01

so planning is a bit of how long is a piece of string question. No, it's not. You will usually have eight to 12 weeks timeframe when they give you a decision. So that's when you submit an application, your planning officer will give you a response time. That's usually between eight to 12 weeks, depending on your local council. Do they hit these timeframes? Absolutely not. They will completely overrun most of the time. So usually I say about 16 weeks to get planning, just to cover yourself. I always secure a site under a 12 month option. So then that gives us enough time for the application for if anything was to go wrong. that we'd be able to pull the application and resubmit if we needed some more consultee responses and bits and pieces like that.

[Athena Dobson]: 17:58

Wow, amazing and literally, so you're effectively like joining a, your role, correct me if I'm wrong in this, I'm just trying to understand it, is you're sort of, you're like, right, I'm gonna find a piece of land, do the work, gain the planning on it, and I'm gonna find a buyer and I'm gonna put it together, and you're in the middle.

[Ella Hardy]: 18:14

Yes, I'm in the middle. So for developers, and I know, sorry, let me just clear my throat. For developers, obviously the best type of deals for them are sites without planning, but a lot of these developers do not know what they're doing when it comes to planning. They will just purchase with planning and then build out and make the profit in the build. A lot of them do not want to risk and go into the risks associated with planning applications. So I have, you know, I've taught a lot of different ways of how to find, you know, buyers in terms of developers. It's actually the easiest part of the process is selling the deal once you've got planning, which yeah, is very easy. I always sell mine off market. Always.

[Athena Dobson]: 18:57

That was actually going to be one of my questions. But just before I come onto that question, because I kind of want to do it in a, in kind of an orderly fashion, if you like,

[Ella Hardy]: 19:03

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 19:04

so I don't forget anything, is you talk about needing to gain planning and everything. So what does that, what does that mean in regards to you? Like, what is it you're trying to build? You have to be like, right, this is what I've got planning for. I've got planning for, for example, 15 flats. I've got planning for three houses. Like, do you have to be quite specific? How can

[Ella Hardy]: 19:22

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 19:22

you be specific? Who do you, who's part of your power team to make that specific, how does it work?

[Ella Hardy]: 19:28

Okay, so I have a full power team. I have a full power team of planning consultants and architects and legal teams. I've got those all working continuously because we've got so many sites, which is great. So what we do is the process that we go through and the process that I coach with all my students is that we will take it in steps. So, you know, step one is getting out there using a software. or just simple pro maps. I do use Searchland. It is the best software out there. So any of the listeners, definitely you wanna be getting out to Searchland. Using Searchland to find sites, doing your letter campaign, sending out some letters. I average least say to send around about 50 letters per week. With that, you should have a 5% response rate. So yeah. With that, you'll have a lot of sites come back, you'll go through them, see if they actually do work, you'll be checking out the access point, checking for trees, checking for any constraints, conservation areas, floodplain, that sort of thing. And then we'll be going up to a site visit. After a site visit, we'll send it over to the in-house team, which is the planning consultants and architects, they will look at it, let us know, okay, this site is gonna be good to go for one bungalow. houses, gonna let us know they're gonna do us a nice site plan so we can easily see what the plan is. We're gonna price that up and we're gonna make the landowners an offer. Once we've made them an offer and they're happy to accept we then sign that into the option agreement. Once we signed into the option agreement we go and put the planning application through. Once we've got planning we... Let me take you back actually, sorry I missed a very important step. Once we sign into that option we also start to have very good conversations to our potential buyers and we start to say okay who do we think is going to buy the site? We then put the planning application in. Once we put the planning application in, a lot of people don't know this but you will see any planning applications will always have a notice because by law you have to let. People know that there's a planning application at that address. So it's public knowledge. So it's also put onto their planning portal on your local council website. And if you are a land buyer, you can set filters onto this planning portal so that when sites are submitted, you can get emails to say a site in your requirement has been submitted to planning. I know it crazy. And then people will actually come to you and companies will come to you saying, look, I'm interested in this site. Could you please let me know, can I make an offer? Can you let me know the details? And a lot of them do know the details because they're online and then they'll just make you offers. So that is really the easiest part of the process. You'll have your buyer lined up when you've got planning and then you'll do a simultaneous exchange and completion. And yeah, you'll make your profit from that.

[Athena Dobson]: 22:28

I mean you make it sound so simple but I know and we all know that it's

[Ella Hardy]: 22:32

Ehh

[Athena Dobson]: 22:32

not as simple as you know as everybody would be doing it um what happens it because this has happened

[Ella Hardy]: 22:38

I do

[Athena Dobson]: 22:38

to

[Ella Hardy]: 22:38

think

[Athena Dobson]: 22:38

me.

[Ella Hardy]: 22:38

it's more simple than people think. I

[Athena Dobson]: 22:41

Yeah?

[Ella Hardy]: 22:41

do really, really do. It's not super difficult. Your trust is in your power team. You know, the trust is in the planning consultants and architects really. You have that basic knowledge to go out and find and identify the right sites. That's really quite simple to teach, it really is. And then it's kind of just having your power team of planning consultants and architects to really. your trust in and then you will have all of your consultants like your ecologist, arborologist, you might have a noise assessment, all these types of bits and pieces that will bring the application together. But yeah it's not as difficult as it sounds to be honest.

[Athena Dobson]: 23:21

Okay, let me ask you this thing, so I think it's gonna be a really helpful question for the listeners. So you've been doing this for some time now, and what actually I should touch on also is the fact that, which is really important, I think, for the listeners, is you didn't just decide and wake up one night or one morning that this is what you want to do. You've actually been within the property world, working in the property world for some time. As you said, you started off as an estate agent. Like a lot of people sometimes, I feel, almost want to jump in at the deep end. And so what I don't want listeners to do is to listen to this, hear how amazing you're doing and suddenly go from zero experience to saying they want to get into planning gain and that

[Ella Hardy]: 23:58

Thank you.

[Athena Dobson]: 23:59

is you've got to start, it's like having a truck to in mud, you've got to start pushing slowly and then, and then go as it were. So what I think is fantastic is, is knowing that you started if you like within the world slowly and then grew this knowledge and then went from there. And I think that's quite important point to make. If you could go back and kind of know your journey. What was sort of one of the biggest mistakes maybe you made as part of your learning and things that you think do you know what if I'd only done that differently if I'd only known that it could have I could have really been helpful for someone.

[Ella Hardy]: 24:35

I think the biggest mistake, and my partner is Phil Anderson, and he is also in the planning uplifts and we've been together a long time. He, to be honest, I make the most mistakes, no, I'm joking.

[Athena Dobson]: 24:48

Very modest.

[Ella Hardy]: 24:49

The biggest mistake that as a couple, and actually I wish he would have told me more about, you know, because we was quite early on, he lost 250 grand in a development. which is a huge amount of money and for somebody that's a couple, you know, that we've, you know, have children, family, you know, making that type of mistake, investing in the wrong type of deal for you. That was a hard pill to swallow for sure. And I was like, you know, wish he had spoke to me more about it. You know, I was like, obviously he's his own man, he can invest his money in what he wants. But you know, a quarter of a million pounds and you know it is a lot of money and to lose that type of money is stressful. And you know that was put into a large development flat scheme in London into a planning application for a high-rise building and yeah we lost 250 grand from a high-rise building.

[Athena Dobson]: 25:59

Wow, wow, you see,

[Ella Hardy]: 26:01

I'm sorry, but

[Athena Dobson]: 26:02

it's

[Ella Hardy]: 26:02

it's gonna

[Athena Dobson]: 26:02

not

[Ella Hardy]: 26:02

take

[Athena Dobson]: 26:02

always

[Ella Hardy]: 26:02

money.

[Athena Dobson]: 26:03

plain sailing. It

[Ella Hardy]: 26:04

No.

[Athena Dobson]: 26:04

never is. There's always peaks and troughs to everything. So

[Ella Hardy]: 26:08

And

[Athena Dobson]: 26:08

just

[Ella Hardy]: 26:08

that's

[Athena Dobson]: 26:08

do...

[Ella Hardy]: 26:08

why I feel like I am really sensible and I am probably at times quite annoying to a lot of my students because I am really pessimistic when it comes to looking at sites. That's because I know there are so many sites out there, there are so many land deals out there. There is no point wasting your time and money on opportunities that are gonna be stressful and that are gonna be a high risk when there's so many great opportunities out there. Let's not waste our time or our money. Let's go find the good ones. So that's

[Athena Dobson]: 26:41

I think

[Ella Hardy]: 26:42

definitely something.

[Athena Dobson]: 26:42

that's a great approach, absolutely.

[Ella Hardy]: 26:44

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 26:45

What do you do if, for example, I'm just trying to think about different scenarios here. So for example, let's say that you've agreed this option with the person you're gonna purchase the land from, and actually the planning doesn't come through, or you have to appeal the planning, like what happens in that situation? So, what do you do if you're planning to buy land

[Ella Hardy]: 27:00

So I've had to appeal planning before. That can be rather expensive. That then puts your planning costs up. I mean, I've never had a rejected application. Fingers

[Athena Dobson]: 27:12

In

[Ella Hardy]: 27:12

crossed,

[Athena Dobson]: 27:12

this quest.

[Ella Hardy]: 27:13

I say that, yeah. I've withdrawn one application. So the last thing that I want to do is set a precedence for the land for a rejection, especially if you've taken that to appeal, once you take a site to appeal. And it's been... rejected. The chances of ever gaining planning are so small that I wouldn't want to do that to anybody's land, not to a landowner. So a lot of work goes into it beforehand. It is a very, very calculated risk planning. You know, we have a lot of reports that go into it and we really kind of make our judgments off of those reports. And if... planning doesn't go through, then unfortunately you lose that money. I'm lucky at the moment that I've lost some money withdrawing an application. I've never lost an appeal, which is great. I've only taken one to appeal. Other than that, mine have gone through okay. Some have dragged their feet and it's been longer than expected and I've had to have conversations about extending option agreements. I've had to have very difficult conversations about reducing an amount of an option agreement. But yeah, I've never had really, you know, it go completely nowhere apart from one withdrawal.

[Athena Dobson]: 28:37

Yeah, I love that. When you say like losing money, in terms

[Ella Hardy]: 28:40

Thank

[Athena Dobson]: 28:40

of a

[Ella Hardy]: 28:40

you.

[Athena Dobson]: 28:40

range to sort of, you know, gain the planning and things like, what sort of money is we talking about here?

[Ella Hardy]: 28:46

Oh, well, it depends what type of site. I stick and that's kind of refers me back to the loss of the high rise flats. I now stick to up to really 10, maybe 15 dwellings. The reason being is because firstly, affordable housing. Don't really want to get into affordable housing. It's a right ball ache. So I prefer to just stick with a smaller. up to five units, up to 10 units, depending what your affordable housing policy is in that area. And now I've lost my train of thought. What did you ask me again?

[Athena Dobson]: 29:25

No, it's just in regards to

[Ella Hardy]: 29:26

I'm sorry.

[Athena Dobson]: 29:27

when you're sort of having a look at, I think what it is I'm trying to just get out is when you're having a look at things, it's really important to understand the type of price that maybe, you know, type

[Ella Hardy]: 29:36

Oh,

[Athena Dobson]: 29:36

of

[Ella Hardy]: 29:36

I'm

[Athena Dobson]: 29:36

price.

[Ella Hardy]: 29:36

surprised. Okay. Yeah. So depending on the size of the site, that's where I was. So if it's really for like a site up to five units, you're looking at round a lot of 40, 50,000 pounds for a good application. And that's another thing that I do is I always make sure I have a bloody sparkling application. I want to see an absolutely amazing design and access statement. If you haven't got an incredible design and access statement. I like to see really detailed drawings, any reports that we think we may have, you know, may be asked to provide, I want those already provided when we submit. So that is for a really great application. I mean, like I said, my partner's lost 250 grand on an application, that's just the legal and planning fees. And that was for a high rise building of over 100 units in London. So it can, obviously, get very, very expensive depending on what sites you deal with. That's why I tend to stick to up to 10 units and, you know, it can be up to kind of a £100,000, £150,000.

[Athena Dobson]: 30:48

And when you're thinking about sort of your power team, so let's say that somebody is listening to this and they really wanna get started. Of course they can find you and have the conversation with you and you can help them on their way. But if they wanted to sort of have a look at their power team as it were, who are the key people in a power team they're gonna need?

[Ella Hardy]: 31:04

planning consultants, architects, and a good solicitor.

[Athena Dobson]: 31:09

Yeah, amazing.

[Ella Hardy]: 31:10

You need that good solicitor. They are really, really valuable. I've had, you know, people come to me with lots of queries of legal issues, covenants, drains, that type of thing, that solicitors haven't picked up and then is now costing them their whole site. So again, no. Do not spend money when it comes to having your consultants. You know, an expensive application will make or break an application. And yeah, and again, a good solicitor to

[Athena Dobson]: 31:46

Love

[Ella Hardy]: 31:47

make

[Athena Dobson]: 31:47

it.

[Ella Hardy]: 31:47

sure you're not missing anything. That's really, that's the three things that, you know, that I have continuously working for me. And, you know, especially if you're working on JV agreements with investors, because that's probably another really good point of actually how I started. is I actually started by using other people's money, not my own. I started by using investors and finding my own investors to fund planning applications and splitting the costs. That's really how it started. And it's kind of incredible that I've done a 360 and now I act as the investor for my students, which is amazing to me. But that's how I really started and then, you know, splitting the profits with investors. So if you are looking to start out, you need a really good JV agreement and find yourself some investors.

[Athena Dobson]: 32:39

Yeah, absolutely gain the knowledge. You know, we always say that you need money to start in property, but it doesn't have to be your own money.

[Ella Hardy]: 32:47

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 32:47

That is what people don't teach you. It's not a no money down, it's that you just need someone else's effectively.

[Ella Hardy]: 32:53

Yeah,

[Athena Dobson]: 32:53

I love

[Ella Hardy]: 32:53

yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 32:54

that. So whilst all of this is going on and you're being an absolute boss in life, you've of course then got your own family life with your two children, your husband, blew the cat. Okay.

[Ella Hardy]: 33:04

them. Blue and Alfie, there's two.

[Athena Dobson]: 33:06

No, and Alfie, I mean, what is that like in terms of juggling, trying to be a mom and trying to be a business owner? Like, what is what's that like?

[Ella Hardy]: 33:16

let's not lie ladies, let's not lie it's freaking difficult, let's be real about it, it is so hard work. Being a mum is the hardest job that I have got, the hardest. Both of my children have got big personalities, I have a boy and a girl, they fight like cat and dog, they love each other lots but they are hard work. You know it's got to the point where me and my partner, we do not take We're not doing them together because it's hard work getting on that plane. We spent all of this money on beautiful holidays and we just parent abroad and we don't even get to eat a meal together. So he actually flies off to Thailand in two weeks tomorrow, which still

[Athena Dobson]: 33:59

Yeah.

[Ella Hardy]: 33:59

burns a little bit. But we're doing them separately. I will be on a lot of girl trips this year. That's for sure. But I mean, being a mum and being a business woman is bloody hard work. It comes down to structure. And that's exactly what gets me for it. I have my structured days to work. I have my structured days to be a mum. I will try and do any bits of work whilst, you know, maybe one is napping or maybe I, quite lucky, I'm at a gym that has a crash, so that I can put them in there and get two hours of work done. But again, it's a juggle and I've got, you know, a lot of these luxuries, a lot of mums aren't able to. to have and I'm aware of that, but I still find it a struggle. You know, being a mum is really hard work, let alone without, you know, having some of the pluses that I have.

[Athena Dobson]: 34:50

Absolutely. But what I think is so important, and I really do think it's important that when people listen to this podcast, they also are inspired as well. Because I always say not everybody was just born with all of these skills and knowledge and wealth. These things are skills that are built over a period of time and you've earned your stripes, you've done your bit. And what's so important is that the listeners understand that they too can earn their stripes. They too.

[Ella Hardy]: 35:17

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 35:17

can be, for example, someone that goes, do you know what? I wanna be that one day and that's where I wanna be. And to move forward with that. And I think it's so important to hear and surround yourself with people who are currently doing it, to really put out there the fact that anyone can do it. I said last night when I was trying to, when I was doing my webinar, you know, and I said about, I've just been nominated for two HMO awards and one of my service

[Ella Hardy]: 35:40

Oh,

[Athena Dobson]: 35:40

accommodations.

[Ella Hardy]: 35:40

well.

[Athena Dobson]: 35:41

Thank you. And one of my service accommodations has just, you know, got a traveler choice award and things. And I said, and I mean it when I said it, I was like, there is genuinely nothing special about me. There's not. It's just that if you've just got that fire within you to

[Ella Hardy]: 35:56

Is it?

[Athena Dobson]: 35:56

know that there has to be more to life and that you are the only person that can take you there and that nobody is going to save you and let that be your driving force, that is what you need in life to take you forward.

[Ella Hardy]: 36:08

100% I turned up to my estate agent job with a voxel corset that was falling apart that sounded like it was falling apart as well. It had this horrible ticking noise. I was on 13,000 pounds a year, a year, and then I went for commission. I was a trainee and I had to work. I've worked and worked and worked and worked. I jumped at the right times. Don't get me wrong. I changed positions at the right times. which always really worked well for me and kind of like grew that way. But yeah, I had to work. And do you know what my biggest thing is that I have taken risks. And you know, starting land profits was a huge risk for me. I left a really comfortable job. I was a land buyer for a top five house builder on a really comfortable wage. I could have just stuck there and moved through the ranks and been very happy in life, but I wanted more. I wanted freedom. I did not want to have to turn up to work if I didn't want to. I wanted to be able to spend time with my children and be able to take them to school and nursery and be there for them at every single point instead of going through the ranks at a corporate company and being stuck to them. And yeah, so I took the risk and I jumped. And I'm so happy it worked, but you have to take these risks. And sometimes they don't work. all you have to do is brush yourself off and go again. You've got, like you've said, you've got to have that fire within you to go, do you know what, that didn't work, but the next one will. And this one definitely will. So that you go again. Because yeah, this hasn't been like plain sailing, but I don't stop. I will not stop. I keep going. And you know, yeah, are there days where I think I am doing a crap job at being a mom? I'm doing a crap job at being a wife? I'm at this at all. I give up. But no, I go to bed and I wake up and I try again. You know, nobody is perfect. And I definitely, there are days where I really feel the pressure and you know, being a mum is such an important job. And some days I really feel like I'm crap at it. And, but you just have to keep going. It's the same thing with business. Sometimes I think, God, my email's up to my eyes. I've got this to do. I've got that person to come back to. I've got this message. And I feel like I'm drowning. But take a deep And we go again. And that's all. You can restart your day at any point. And that's something that I tell myself all the time, because I'll wake up and I will have a crap morning. And I think, go have five minutes, some deep breaths, and let's restart this day. And come back out that toilet with a smiling face. Because I may be going in there in tears, but I'm coming back out with a smiling face, and we go again. And I feel like that... constant never giving up, the consistency of life just gets you to where you need to be. You just have to be consistent.

[Athena Dobson]: 39:10

I love that. What a wonderful, wonderful sort of way to say it. And I think, I think that everyone's going to really appreciate you saying that because, and I said this before, we're all human. We are not superhuman. We're not here telling you that everything's dandy. It's like, well this is what you could do. If you want to go for it, go for it. I mean, you know, the fact that you were a lamb by and then went, you know what? I could actually do this. I could do this myself. That just shows that you took that risk. You took that jump. and went for it. So kudos to you. And I think that anyone who wants to get into to land should, you know, should definitely get in touch with you, which we'll do at the end and we'll say about where we can find you. But I think that you're such, you've got such great energy, Ella, that I really think that you would be such a force of nature within this particular sector. And I think that everybody would be really lucky to speak to you about it if they wanted to get into

[Ella Hardy]: 40:00

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 40:01

to land and develop and growing. So, just on the subject of sort of profits and doing well in life and everything, let's bring it back down to reality once again with property disasters, which is always one of my favorite bits of the podcast. So it doesn't have to be like a property disaster, property mishap, could either be recent or in the past. And I used to already spoken about one of them,

[Ella Hardy]: 40:23

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 40:24

but is there anything else you can think of as some juicy, juicy gossip in the land of wealth for us?

[Ella Hardy]: 40:31

I mean, I could, I'm not quite sure. Other than losing two, a quarter of a million pound, I have been stuck in fields, heavily pregnant.

[Athena Dobson]: 40:42

Oh my god, really?

[Ella Hardy]: 40:46

I've been stuck in fields, heavily pregnant. I climbed over a fence, which I do not. tell anybody to do. I was reviewing a site and I was, you know, eight months, nearly eight and a half months pregnant, so really nearly, you know, nearly there. And I was quite small, you know, I got over this fence absolutely fine, however my welly slipped and I twisted my ankle

[Athena Dobson]: 41:11

Oh God, no!

[Ella Hardy]: 41:12

and I was stuck on the floor in a field, heavily pregnant.

[Athena Dobson]: 41:17

anywhere else for you on your own

[Ella Hardy]: 41:20

Yeah, somebody had to like, she's gonna help me up, but it was so embarrassing, honestly. And I was just like, this is so land, like getting stuck in a field with your wellies slipping on a fence. Yeah, so yeah, I have done that. That's a disaster. I've given everyone a bit of a giggle

[Athena Dobson]: 41:39

I

[Ella Hardy]: 41:39

out.

[Athena Dobson]: 41:39

love that you use that as your example. That is

[Ella Hardy]: 41:42

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 41:42

just

[Ella Hardy]: 41:42

Ha ha

[Athena Dobson]: 41:43

fabulous.

[Ella Hardy]: 41:43

ha.

[Athena Dobson]: 41:43

I love that you're like, this is the example I'm gonna use for a property disaster. Like, yes.

[Ella Hardy]: 41:47

I've been stuck in fields heavily pregnant after for twisting ankles and all sorts. I

[Athena Dobson]: 41:52

Love

[Ella Hardy]: 41:52

mean,

[Athena Dobson]: 41:52

it.

[Ella Hardy]: 41:52

you know, mine's always field related, like, you know, I'm land. So I've, I mean, I can do a, we had a serviced accommodation once where we had to, I think this is going back, God, probably like nine, nine years ago now, maybe even closer to 10. My partner had prostitutes. in its service to accommodation that

[Athena Dobson]: 42:16

Oh my

[Ella Hardy]: 42:16

got

[Athena Dobson]: 42:16

goodness.

[Ella Hardy]: 42:17

raided by police.

[Athena Dobson]: 42:19

You know what, this is a really common thing. So I was speaking to somebody the other day and she was telling me that her particular service accommodation properties are being used as brothels

[Ella Hardy]: 42:29

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 42:30

and that the pimps are taking on the service accommodations for months and using it as that, as like long-term bookings. And I'm like, this is actually quite a common thing. And she

[Ella Hardy]: 42:39

Yeah, it is.

[Athena Dobson]: 42:39

even went

[Ella Hardy]: 42:40

It

[Athena Dobson]: 42:40

on

[Ella Hardy]: 42:40

is.

[Athena Dobson]: 42:40

to tell me, she's like, yeah, the police are where in our particular area, that's what service accommodation is used for. Oh my goodness. So, and then it makes me think about my own long-term bookings. And I'm like,

[Ella Hardy]: 42:51

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 42:51

what is going on in my long-term bookings?

[Ella Hardy]: 42:53

Yeah, so just be aware, yeah, be a bit worried that I mean, we yeah, that was really, really stressful. And that was like middle of the night, like 3.30am, like, we like, what the hell is coming on? Like it was, you know, and yeah, the pimp was there. And the police were there.

[Athena Dobson]: 43:10

How did the pimp have a massive gold chain on and gold rings? Is it really stereotypical?

[Ella Hardy]: 43:18

No, he was actually quite a small Albanian guy, so no. No,

[Athena Dobson]: 43:23

I know. I'm not a good thing. Not like a movie then.

[Ella Hardy]: 43:25

unfortunately. But yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think of anything that's kind of like really interesting. Can

[Athena Dobson]: 43:30

No, I

[Ella Hardy]: 43:31

you

[Athena Dobson]: 43:31

think

[Ella Hardy]: 43:31

see?

[Athena Dobson]: 43:31

honestly, I'm gonna stick with those two. I'm gonna go with the Pimp service accommodations and I'm gonna go with you, heavily pregnant in a field. I think

[Ella Hardy]: 43:38

Yeah

[Athena Dobson]: 43:39

that's cool. I might write a book one day of all the property disasters of all my women in the girls in property. And I'll put you as like the front cover.

[Ella Hardy]: 43:48

Yeah, just imagine me on my back, like, you know, when you tiff it, was it called a cow tipping? And

[Athena Dobson]: 43:54

Yeah.

[Ella Hardy]: 43:55

that was like me, I was like stuck on my back.

[Athena Dobson]: 44:01

I love that. I love that. I've just got that image in my head now, literally. Do you know what? I've absolutely loved having you on. I think that, you know, land, as I said to you before, land is such, it can be, not always, but can be such a male dominated industry.

[Ella Hardy]: 44:13

Mm-hmm.

[Athena Dobson]: 44:14

And particularly quite frankly, I see a lot of, because I know quite a few people in the land world and they drive around in their flash cars and they're very sort of flashy with it. And I think to myself, you know, let's get some really inspiring young females showing how to do it correctly. You know, the fact that you said earlier, which I loved, you're like, you tell your students, no, don't go for that one, you know, that's high risk.

[Ella Hardy]: 44:38

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 44:38

You know, would other people do that? I'm not so sure. So I think that that's a fantastic way. And I think if you keep your morals and your ethics always at the forefront of everything that you do, you almost can't go wrong in life. I think

[Ella Hardy]: 44:48

Yeah,

[Athena Dobson]: 44:48

it's a good way to be.

[Ella Hardy]: 44:49

I mean in terms of and I love being a female in construction. I work for Vistri. Vistri are an amazing company to work for. They're very always pushing women in construction which I loved whilst I was working there and again being a land buyer and being the only female in the team, I can tell you now I got way more deals than the Blakes.

[Athena Dobson]: 45:11

Of course you did.

[Ella Hardy]: 45:12

Of

[Athena Dobson]: 45:12

Of

[Ella Hardy]: 45:12

course,

[Athena Dobson]: 45:12

course you did.

[Ella Hardy]: 45:13

way more. Way more. People way preferred talking to me than them. So I've always taken it as an upper hand, you know. It is an upper hand. I'm a female. There's one of me against six of you and I guarantee I'm going to smash it out of the park. I'll bet

[Athena Dobson]: 45:27

Go

[Ella Hardy]: 45:27

you.

[Athena Dobson]: 45:27

on

[Ella Hardy]: 45:27

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 45:28

girl, doing it for the girls. Absolutely love it. Love the energy, love the self-belief. And that is where you've got to start. You've got to start with that, have that confidence within you and then be able to just be a powerhouse and make over a million pound profit. Like

[Ella Hardy]: 45:40

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 45:41

fabulous and congratulations, that's

[Ella Hardy]: 45:43

And

[Athena Dobson]: 45:43

incredible.

[Ella Hardy]: 45:43

never give up. Keep going. Believe

[Athena Dobson]: 45:45

Absolutely.

[Ella Hardy]: 45:45

in yourself and keep going.

[Athena Dobson]: 45:47

So I think there's gonna be a lot of people on this podcast who are going to want to speak to you, who wanna get into. planning gain and land development and everything like that. So if people want to get in touch with you and learn more about, um, you know, your mentorship and courses and everything, and just have a chat with you, really where, where could they find you?

[Ella Hardy]: 46:04

So you can head over to Land Profits on Instagram. In my bio, I'm currently doing a free webinar that you can just watch at any point and it will take you through the whole process. I'm also gonna be in Stoke-on-Trent on the 7th of March and I'm hosting a networking event. So feel free to purchase a ticket and come say hi. I will have a lot of guest speakers on there and I'm gonna be doing further. networking events and I'd love to have you there as well, Athena, on one of my next events. I'm

[Athena Dobson]: 46:36

Oh,

[Ella Hardy]: 46:36

just

[Athena Dobson]: 46:36

I'd

[Ella Hardy]: 46:36

releasing

[Athena Dobson]: 46:36

love to.

[Ella Hardy]: 46:37

some of the dates, I'm just organising them for the rest of the year. Or you can email me at info at land-profits.co.uk

[Athena Dobson]: 46:46

Perfect, love that. And if you wanna find me, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official. We are girls in a property pod. And one last thing just to say is, when I was actually doing the webinar last night, I did a special launch offer for everyone who joined that webinar. What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna extend that to everybody who listens to this podcast. So

[Ella Hardy]: 47:05

Oh!

[Athena Dobson]: 47:05

it's a very special offer that I'm gonna put the link to actually in the podcast show notes. And also in on Instagram, if you just DM me the word lifestyle, I will extend that to you as well. So that's just going out to the girls and property. listeners and that's going out to the people who listened to the first webinar. So thank you so much everyone. Don't forget to grab your tickets to the Girls and Property Retreat which is on Friday 19th of April as well. We're nearly fully booked actually, we've got about 20 spots left so

[Ella Hardy]: 47:30

I need to

[Athena Dobson]: 47:30

it's

[Ella Hardy]: 47:30

grab my

[Athena Dobson]: 47:31

um

[Ella Hardy]: 47:31

ticket.

[Athena Dobson]: 47:32

are you gonna come?

[Ella Hardy]: 47:32

Yeah, I do wanna come.

[Athena Dobson]: 47:34

Well

[Ella Hardy]: 47:34

I just.

[Athena Dobson]: 47:34

I'm not being funny literally I in fact know

[Ella Hardy]: 47:37

You're

[Athena Dobson]: 47:37

that I lie

[Ella Hardy]: 47:37

asking to get it, you're telling me.

[Athena Dobson]: 47:39

there's 19 tickets left because somebody this morning actually purchased a ticket just before I came on this

[Ella Hardy]: 47:44

Bye. I will have a good look. Is it a Friday?

[Athena Dobson]: 47:49

It's Friday 19th of April.

[Ella Hardy]: 47:51

Yeah,

[Athena Dobson]: 47:51

Yeah.

[Ella Hardy]: 47:52

so I'm just gonna, I only work three days a week, so I need to find childcare for the Friday. So yeah, that's fine. If I need to work on that a little bit more, and then I'll definitely book my ticket.

[Athena Dobson]: 48:01

Honestly, the guest list is incredible. We've got three guest speakers, but then the people are actually coming, not even as speakers, but just to come and be amongst it. I literally, I look at that guest list and I'm like, that is like on fire.

[Ella Hardy]: 48:14

Good,

[Athena Dobson]: 48:14

That is,

[Ella Hardy]: 48:15

I'm so glad, I want to be there.

[Athena Dobson]: 48:17

yeah, honestly, like it's people's, I say this, you know, it's people like you who are there. Do you know what I mean? Like really inspiring, aspirational. But also there are people there who I really want to be there who are looking to get into property and I

[Ella Hardy]: 48:29

Yeah.

[Athena Dobson]: 48:29

want them to also be inspired by the women around them. So I think in total we're going to be, you know, including the guest speakers, including a couple of VIPs, be about 80 women. So, and

[Ella Hardy]: 48:40

Oh.

[Athena Dobson]: 48:40

it's at Penley Manor, which is the most gorgeous venue, gorgeous venue. It's got

[Ella Hardy]: 48:44

Uh

[Athena Dobson]: 48:45

a 24

[Ella Hardy]: 48:45

huh.

[Athena Dobson]: 48:45

hour bar as well. So we're just going to have a great time. It's going to be wonderful.

[Ella Hardy]: 48:49

Good god, that's the one thing I don't need to be around is the 24 hour

[Athena Dobson]: 48:54

Fair enough.

[Ella Hardy]: 48:55

bell.

[Athena Dobson]: 48:55

But

[Ella Hardy]: 48:55

I'll drink

[Athena Dobson]: 48:55

it's...

[Ella Hardy]: 48:55

you dry.

[Athena Dobson]: 48:58

Ah, but

[Ella Hardy]: 48:58

I've

[Athena Dobson]: 48:58

honestly...

[Ella Hardy]: 48:58

got two toddlers, I will drink that wine dry.

[Athena Dobson]: 49:02

It's going to be great. So if you haven't got your ticket yet, then do feel free to do that as well. But Ella, thank you so much. Like the energy you have brought has just been amazing. I love the fact that you're showing mums out there as well, that they can do anything. And also anyone who wants to get into land, not necessarily the usual techniques. I think it's great that you've come on to really explain how others can do that. So thank you so much for your time.

[Ella Hardy]: 49:25

That's okay, thank you so much for having me, and yeah, thank you.

[Athena Dobson]: 49:29

Thanks guys, see you soon, bye!

[Ella Hardy]: 49:30

Bye!