Fatherhood & Finance: Parenting Insights and Social Media Strategies with Courtney Bryan

Get Ready for a Monday Morning Twist with your host Athena, as she welcomes her first male guest since the podcast relaunch - Courtney Bryan, also known as 'Courts'.

In this candid chat, Courts offers a fresh male perspective in the world of property, tailored for female investors. He opens up about the joys and challenges of parenthood within the property realm, shedding light on shared experiences between men and women balancing property businesses and raising children.

Later, Courts and Athena delve into a mini social media masterclass. Courts guides us through his proven tactics for using social media to raise finance and forge valuable connections. Tune in to discover the power of effective social media strategies.

DISCLAIMER: Keep listening for a hilarious moment when my mother interrupts our chat, searching for her lunch salad bowl!" 

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Transcript

0:00

Good morning, everyone. Happy Monday and welcome to the Girls in Property podcast. I hope everybody is having a fantastic Monday today. So for this Monday, I thought I would do something a little bit different for you girls and guys listening to the podcast and kind of mix things up a bit into the mix. So I actually have a gentleman coming on the podcast today, who is the first guy to come on the podcast since I rebranded the Girls in Property. So please welcome. Courtney or this is court onto the podcast. Bye. Thank you very much. I am honored to be on. I didn't actually realize I'm the first one to be on then from the rebrand. Oh, very honored. Thank you. you are and that is an honor actually because I don't get many guys on here onto the podcast because of course it is mainly to put a voice in front for women and to empower women but since coming on your podcast which I did which was absolutely fantastic I realized what amazing energy you had and what an advocate you were for women in property and so I just felt like I had to get you on the podcast just to kind of give a bit of a different perspective as well and just a And really just to mix things up a bit. I'm a person that likes to mix things up and get a bit of something, a bit of change. So that's why I thought it'd be really great to get you on. It's great. Like I said, honoured to be here and you know, I'm always happy to support you as well. So and it is something that I'm quite, you know, passionate about myself as well. So empowering women. So yeah, excited for this one. Right, well, let's go. So before we do our celebrations, would you first of all just like to introduce yourself, tell people what you're currently doing in the property world with some exciting projects, and then you take it from there and I will follow your lead. Yeah, so funny story about my name actually and why I just go by the name of court. So obviously my name is Courtney. Traditionally it's a girl's name. So I'm actually the second born and my mom wanted to have a girl and her name for the girl was always going to be Courtney. And then obviously I was a boy, but she still won that battle. You know, women always win the battle between the men of naming. So yeah, I was named Courtney. So that's just a bit of background about my name, but yeah, I go by the name of courts. Um, I am, I'm saying I'm quite new to property. actively doing it as in when I say actively I mean professionally taking it seriously for the last two and a half years So kind of focusing on HMOs But I did buy my first place in 2016 So and that was a buy to let Live in renovation buy to let but you know actively doing property for the last two and a half years Focusing on HMOs. So that's me in the property world Perfect introduction. Absolutely love it. Wonderful. And in regards to something you're celebrating at the moment, can you think of something you're celebrating? Can it either be now or it can be in the past? What is, what is it? Something fantastic we can celebrate together. Twofold. So I am celebrating the recent completion on my first ever commercial to residential purchase. So it's something I spoke about last year. Yeah, so it's something I spoke about last year. A lot of people that I've met in the property world and everyone talks about different strategies, but something that kept on coming up a lot last year was there's an opportunity and commercial conversions, the high street is dying, commercial buildings are coming up for sale. So I said to myself, I want a piece of this. I want to get involved in commercial conversions, spoke it into existence, and then the following year, we bought our first one. So that's what I'm celebrating. And not to jinx it prematurely, I'm celebrating the potential purchase of another one that we've got in the pipeline at the moment. So yeah. I am, I am, I am, yes. I love that. I love that. You know what's so fascinating about that is, so for the longest time on Girls and Property, I didn't have anyone really that came on to talk about commercial conversions. And the last episode that just went out before this one was with Ella Attrell, who was speaking about her commercial conversions that she did. So now I've got another person, which is perfect. So I'm going to be asking you. have two perspectives now. Yeah, you'll probably have two perspectives. I know she's a lot more experienced than I am. So I'm very much gonna be learning on the job whilst doing this. So documenting the goods and the bad, the highs and the lows, so. Yeah, but that I think that is actually what is so wonderful about you is that you're very authentic, you're very open. And I think people love seeing that because they love, they love almost watching you and you're almost inspiring them because you're, you're not new to the game that's the wrong word to use, but because you're just going into commercial conversions, people can say, well, if, if courts can do it, why can't I? So I think that is, I think that's fantastic. So yeah, I'm going to be asking you more about that as the podcast goes through, if that's okay. In regards to something I am celebrating, I am celebrating at the moment the fact that, well, the Girls in Property Retreat is effectively now sold out. Like literally gone. Which is amazing, thank you. So there are going to be 75 women coming to the retreat in April, which is crazy because it feels like it's literally round the corner now. But what I'm actually celebrating is that I launched today and released the sponsorship packs officially for the retreat. So if people want to get involved and want to actually sponsor the retreat, they can and get involved with this amazing event. And I've already had some inquiries. I've already got some meetings set up. So it's fascinating because if I thought a year ago that I would host an event for 75 women, get a sellout event and then also release sponsorship packs to get people to sponsor such an event, I probably wouldn't have believed you. But because of my growth in confidence and growth in my abilities. I'm like, do you know, I can do this. And actually so many people want to get involved with it. They're like, yes, this is perfect. I'm in. So I'm really celebrating that. So anybody who hasn't seen the sponsorship packs yet wants to see them, just DM me the word sponsorship and we can have a chat about it. But I'd like to celebrate that because I think that's a massive milestone for me. So it's great. yeah, amazing. Congratulations on that, yeah. Isn't it amazing though as well, when you look on the last 12 months or last year, what you've done to see how far you've come in the growth, it's just amazing to look back on it, isn't it? I think it's the same for everyone, I really do, and I don't actually think that people do look back. And I was speaking to Abigail Clarke about this, who's also fabulous, because she was talking to me about looking back and she's like, if you actually look at your camera roll of what you were doing this time last year, you'd be shocked at how far each and every one of us has come and you're probably sat there exactly the same thinking. Well, this is where I was and this is where I am now. And I think that change and growth is such a wonderful, healthy thing to do. And I'm just excited. Do you wanna hear something really funny actually? Do you know what a really good one that I do sometimes is? So this is something funny and this is a true story. This is actually something that I do. So, you know every time you go to the dentist, it's usually like a six month window until the next time you're going to see the dentist. So it's like half a year. So I always say to my dentist, who's the nicest guy, I always say to my dentist, I'll let you know what I'm up to in six months time because I guarantee you it's going to be different to what I'm doing now. He's like, I've got no doubt Athena. And so he almost is my... my half yearly check-in for my teeth and also for my life. Yeah, that's brilliant. I love that. Yeah, I think it's great. So anyone who goes to the dentist, please do try and go twice a year. It's good for you. Just do your half year goal setting with your dentist as well. It's a fun thing to do. I'm pretty bad when it, in terms of going to the dentist, I'll probably go every two years, only when I've got an issue as well. Cause it's just one of those things you just put to the, you know, to put to the bottom of your list, don't you? Unless there's a problem, you don't go. Same with my eyes as well. I had my first eye checkup in COVID, in the lockdown period. And it's like, my eyes were getting worse and worse. I was like, maybe I should go and see the, you know, I should go in and have my eyes checked. And yeah, turns out my eyes were fine, but even so just... I'm thinking you just put to the bottom of the list, don't you, when you're just busy with life. Well, it's funny to say that I'm not going to go too deep into this, but it just because you've just mentioned it there. I'm trying really hard at the moment to try and prioritize health and to put it more at the top of the list of priorities and teeth are included in that because It's very easy when you're in business and when you're starting a business to put yourself and your health and everything else as a lower priority because all you see is the business and it's almost like an obsession in a way. But then what happens is your health just deteriorates because of your energy levels and everything. So I definitely am more of an advocate. Only now I used to not be very good at this. I'm trying to change my ways and be better in my ways and be more of a... a role model for other women in business going forward where I want to try and prioritize my health and put it at the top. So, courts go to the dentist, go get your eyes checked, put your health at the top. We must all do that. I saw a post recently and it was basically talking about how we take more care of our cars than we do with our body. We get our car serviced annually or MOT'd annually, we get it serviced regularly, we make sure the oil is filled up and the water and things like that but we don't with our health. And it's actually against the law to not do it for your car but your health it's, you know, put to the side. Crazy. I am letting you know I'm going to be stealing that. I'm letting you know it wasn't my analogy, I just saw it on social media somewhere and apologies I can't remember who it was so just public declaration now I'm not stealing it I just saw it on social media somewhere recently so yeah. It's like a chain. It's like a chain. I'll steal it from you. You know, that's wrong words you stealing. Let's be inspired by the quote. Let's be inspired and to pass on the wisdom to others. So we are passing the wisdom on. Thank you, Mr. or Mrs. Person on social media. And so. and DM one of us, won't they? Oh, I hope so. Please do. Um, so let's talk about, um, well, there's a couple of things I actually want to talk to you about on this podcast, which is why I brought you on. So let's do things in, in a certain order and then we can, we can go on to other things. So I'll tell you what, let's start with what I really wanted to talk to you about actually on this podcast, which is we talk a lot about women in property and the construction world and being a female in the property construction world. And when I actually came on your podcast, it was so interesting to have that conversation with you because I felt that there was a lot almost that you had to say or wanted to say as well. And when I was speaking to you, I thought to myself, do you know what? I need to get you on my podcast because I think from a male perspective and for a male to speak, I think that you're a great representation for a positive change within the industry. And I really wanted to highlight that for you on on the Girls and Property podcast, which of course has this platform of incredible women, but also we have some amazing male listeners. And I just wanted to kind of have a conversation with you about that, if that's okay, just to start off with. Yeah, absolutely. So when you're thinking about women in the property industry and construction industry and things, one of the questions that you asked me, which I thought was really, really poignant was, you were asking questions, but then you asked one question, which was if you thought that men could do any more to support women within the actual property and construction world. And I thought that was a really interesting question as to why you asked it. So. And I answered you my answer of what I thought it was, but I never actually asked you what your thoughts were in regards to what you think men could do more for kind of women in the property and construction world. So I just want to really get your thoughts about what you think about the either balance or disbalance within the gender equality, what your thoughts were, what you've seen, and just go with a bit of a conversation from there really. Yeah, do you know what, it's a good question, it's a difficult question to answer as well, because, say it's all about giving women, yeah, I know, yeah, and I'm probably not gonna give you an answer, I'm probably gonna give you a politician the answer, so apologies in advance. But it's about giving women a voice and a platform, so, and that has to come from the women, so then by having men involved, is that detracting from the actual issue in the first place, that it's very male dominated anyway, so. Why should men then be a part of this platform or a representation for women? It's like with race or gender and diversity and things like that, you want people that are trying to be the representatives to actually be the representation. So it should be coming from the females. But at the same time, we all have an obligation as society and men to sort of be a part of that as well. So and that's why I asked that question, because I don't have an exact answer. I just know that we need to do something as men. So yeah, I'm struggling to think about what we can do. And so to give you an example of something else that came up many, many years ago, you talk about women at nighttime, traveling home from late night and it could be dark and things like that. And if you're a man and there's women ahead of you or there's one woman ahead of you, what can we do to make that woman feel safe? And there was a, I can't remember what the program was now, I feel like I can't remember the name of the program, but basically said as a man in that situation, maybe just call out in advance, let the woman ahead know that you want to pass or just cross over the road or little things like that. So that's what got me thinking, well, that's effective. But then what can we do in the sort of in the corporate world or in the property world or in any industry, which is very male dominated. So it's, yeah, it's a very, very tricky one. That's a long winded answer to your question, which probably didn't answer your question. So I answered your question much better on your podcast. No, I'm joking. No, no. Do you know what I said actually on your, on your podcast was, um, so for example, companies like the Savoy's property groups, who's a fantastic advocate for this, um, because they have Lauren who works in the construction industry, and so I think that they actually forefront it as a result of that. But Malke and Sanjay, who we've actually had on the podcast before. fantastic at doing this with their events is that they typically will do a 50-50 gender split event. They will ensure the fact that they have 50% men, 50% women and what's so fantastic about that is you can really see the difference in those events as well. You can see the energy difference, you can see the connections, the networking, you know, because men and women are completely different people I think and network in different ways as well and I think that it's so wonderful to have such an eclectic mix. Therefore I'm not necessarily saying that it's necessarily a right thing to just have a female only event or a male only event. I actually think that mixed events are the best events and I know I run the Girls and Property Retreats as well, but it's to support women who maybe want to just feel more connected with other women in the industry. But I actually think if we can move to more of a 50% split. sort of groups and events, I actually think that those are the best ones that I see for me. They're just so much fun, especially when there's a dance floor involved as well. We just have such a laugh. So, but yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, definitely. I've met some amazing women off the back of the subways events as well. You know, you and I obviously met prior subways event. I've met, you know, people like Rosalia who's been on my podcast. I know she's been on yours, but some great women that's come off the back of those events. And like you said, subways are, you know, they're leading in that space as well. So they're doing some great things. Championed by Lauren, of course. But I think it's great what they're doing. Absolutely. And then in regards to one of the other things that we spoke about, which I thought was another interesting conversation was I talk a lot of the times about mums kind of in the property spectrum. And I talk about mums being in the property world and trying to juggle things and how people perceive, for example, a person who is a mum. let's say. And then actually one of the questions that I asked you and I thought your answer was so interesting was in regards to the aspect of, well you're a father is what I'm trying to say, so you actually have two young children don't you? And my question to you was around, well do you feel like even as a male and as a father, people actually see you slightly differently so it doesn't matter the fact that you're a mum or a dad, it matters the fact that you have young children almost. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, everything changes when you have kids, by the way. So I don't know if you're thinking about having kids, but it absolutely does change, you know, the dynamic of your friends that don't have kids compared to the ones that do have kids, that all changes. Um, you'll probably start to drift away from certain crowds because of that as well. Um, but then also just the pressures on being a parent, not just a dad, a mom, it, you know, a parent is general, um, looking after kids, being present. being able to work and provide and build a business. It's a lot of work and it's hard. And trying to juggle all those plates, it's very hard. Yeah, but that's for both genders, isn't it? It's one of those where it's, yeah, it's being a parent effectively. Yeah, but I think personally speaking, it's a lot more pressure on the woman. Um, and the reason why, and the reason why I think it's cause there's an expectation that the woman has to be the one that stays at home or the main, the primary carer, um, and not to get too technical about this, but there's obviously biological reasons around, you know, feeding the baby and health and things like that, but there's a lot of pressure put on, on women from, from that perspective. I had Steph Cork on my podcast, I think it was last summer. She's got two kids from memory. And she used to work in the corporate world. When she came back off of maternity leave, she just realized that it wasn't, it just wasn't set up for her to be a business woman or have a career and be a good parent, a full-time parent. So she made a change and said, I'm going to build my own business. I want to be present for my kids. And, but the, the pressures that came with that was, was really hard for her. And I'm sure. a lot of women can relate to that. And I did actually have a lot of women reach out off the back of that podcast, actually saying how that was very relatable. So yeah, it's a lot on the woman. And do you know what happened? And I've noticed this more actually as times going on is I've been speaking to various people and I speak to a lot of couples now, actually, quite a few people who are in relationships and going into business in a relationship, which is a whole nother conversation, which I find really interesting. But when I spoke to them and I was talking to them about needing to get out to networking events, needing to do more in regards to getting themselves out there as people, they said to me, and I completely understood, they were like, it's really difficult when you've got a family with the kids. And I noticed on more than one occasion, because if it had just been one, I kind of would have just not said anything, but it was more than one occasion, the particular guy said to his partner, he went, well I'll go to the networking events and you stay home with the kids. And it wasn't a conversation, it wasn't a question, it wasn't a would you mind, it was a statement. And I really noticed it on these occasions, and I actually thought, you know what, I'm I didn't do on the first one, which I regret because it almost came as a bit of a shock to me, but because I was ready for it on the other ones, I was like, right, I'm ready for this. So I stepped in for her and I said, well, why should she stay at home? I said, why should she stay at home with the kids? Why don't you stay at home with the kids? So I questioned him and he was like, oh, well, I'm just naturally well, men never like to be challenged. First of all. You know men being challenged by strong by a strong female is always an interesting dynamic and always an interesting conversation And of course, it's meddling. It's their relationship at the end of the day but all I was doing was I was giving her a voice and I was questioning the fact as to Why it had to be that way if you'd have said because my wife works certain hours and it just makes more sense Then I kind of would have understood but it was more of just a conversation and I said well She also needs to get herself out there. She also has an identity within this business. This business is the both of you So why can't it be that one of you go to one, one of you go to another and you take it in turns and try it that way. So it's not so much a challenge in a disrespectful way, it's more of a challenge in a thought provoking way of why don't we try something different? Which I think is always a good way to be when thinking about partnerships. And then I think I also mentioned to you on the, on your podcast that I came on as well, is this wonderful, wonderful woman called Lorna, who comes to my Dorset Property Network event. and the last time she came she had to bring her little daughter called Ivy, very small. I can't remember how old she is, so shout out Lorna, I'm so sorry I can't remember how old Ivy is, but she brought her along and it was fascinating to watch because she messaged me saying would you mind if I brought my daughter who's very young to this event and I said yep that's no problem at all of course I would never say no and it was interesting to watch the dynamic all the women were holding the baby and talking to the baby and all the guys were just around the bar area just looking and mingling and chatting and I'm not sure if they were speaking about the baby or not but there was definitely a conversation happening there and I just thought wow this is I just stood back and watched and I thought this is so interesting to watch the dynamics of if you try and bring a baby into a networking event and I I absolutely take my hat off to Lorna for doing it and for saying, this is who I am. I'm a mum, I'm a business woman. I'm going to get out there and I'm going to bring my daughter with me. And I think that if we can encourage that more within the industry to say that it's okay for women to do that, I think that'd be a really positive, positive change forward. So I thought that was really cool. Really cool. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I tell you what, my daughter's just started to get into dancing a lot as well, so maybe I should bring her to the next Subway event. Honestly, do it. Oh my god, that'd be so much fun. Get her to bring her little dancing shoes. Oh my god, that would be amazing Yeah, I think that we should really try and do something like this And again, i'm all about when you want to see a change in the world try and be that change That's always been my motto So maybe I have to be the first person to try and do something with this and almost Make it about parents like not just women but parents within the property world let's network and do something with that, and maybe speak to some people. But I think definitely that would be a positive, positive change forward. And I think you've got a great platform to do that as well. Yeah, but for both men and women because I want to do it for men. For parents. Yeah, definitely. And I know when we spoke, also, I think what, what comes down to quite a lot of it as well as you were telling me a lot about your upbringing with your family and, you know, how you were raised and things like that. Um, I don't know if you want to share, happy to share that information with the viewers, the listeners. Um, but I think that's, that really proves and can really help with how you therefore approach things going forward, I would say, in business as well. Yeah, 100%. That's what's kind of shaped me as who I am now as a person and such a sort of strong advocate for females as well. And having a daughter now myself as well and being a father, it's just something that's a lot closer to my heart now as well. So that's where I was going with that. Yeah, I love that. And do you know what's so funny? So I have a lot of Caribbean friends. And when I was growing up with them, they were, you're absolutely right. They kept, I kept going over to their house and they were like, this is my auntie and this is my auntie. And I was like, you have such a big family. And they were like, no, they're just, they're just, they used to say to me, they're like, they're just auntie because they're close to me, but they're not actually my auntie. And it was so confusing. yeah, so you know, you know, yeah. I do. I love that. I love that. And the fact that you said at the beginning that your mum actually wanted a girl and the fact that she stuck to her guns and still called you Courtney, which absolutely is a guy and girl's name, I think is so, so funny as well. So I love that. And then the other thing I wanted to speak to you about, because you're, you're fantastic at it and you're, you're brilliant at it. You do it in a really healthy way, I would say, is I've been wanting to get somebody on this podcast. I'm going to do... almost a whole episode on it as well, because I think it's such an important thing to talk about, but I really want to talk about it with you as well, is this aspect of social media, because I think that we're all on social media, we all have this platform, we all have, we all put ourselves out there every single day, you know, as viewers do. And I talk to people about it and there are some people who are really into social media. They're on it every day, they post every day, they feel really confident on social media and they feel like they're really getting the most out of it and developing their brands in a really healthy and constructive way. But then I also speak to some people that either find it quite destructive, social media, because they don't use it in the correct way or they just don't want to go on it at all because they feel the fear of being judged. or fear of not knowing what to say. So I really kind of wanted to just get your view about what you think about social media and how it's really helped you, how it's benefited you, and how you've used it in a really healthy way compared to maybe some stories of where there are times where you've used it in an unhealthy way, just so we can kind of start a bit of a conversation about that. Yeah, absolutely. So for me, I've always said you have to be intentional with anything that you do. So how I use social media is very intentional. It's a marketing tool. It's a platform tool for building my brand and putting myself out there. If I look at using it in the wrong way, it's just, you know, when you're just sitting there consuming, and then hours go by and then you've just wasted a whole evening looking at it. reals or whatever it may be. So for me it's very intentional. So I started my social media journey probably about a year and a half ago, two years ago, and the whole objective behind that was to be just real with what I'm doing. You mentioned at the start that you know very authentic, I've always said that's what I want to be. I don't want to create things that's not me or doesn't represent me or it's not a true representation of me. So all the stuff that you see me put out on social media it's just real, it's what's happening you know. I've talked about my moon boot a lot. I've just had, I just injured my Achilles. I talked about that, but how I'm still getting involved with property and still what I'm doing, the learnings, the good, the bad, the ugly, just sharing all of that in, you know, in a real, as real as a way as possible. So that's what I would say from a social media, just be intentional with it. It's a great tool when used for the right reasons. So yeah, you have to use it for the right reasons is what I would say. What's your thoughts? absolutely spot on. I think that's perfect. And one of the things that I always say to people is always think about why you are posting. So what you just said about being intentional, what is the reason I'm posting this today? By the way, and this is what I say to people, right? The reason that you could post something also could just be to make people laugh. It doesn't have to be so serious. It doesn't have to be my intention for posting today is to get X amount of investors to get X amount of return to do this. how I'm doing it. No, it could be I'm gonna put a funny dog picture up because it made me laugh and I hope it makes someone else laugh. It could be I hope to put up my really yummy dinner that I made because I'm really proud of my dinner and someone else might think oh do you know what like I really want to make a yummy dinner that dinner looks good I might go and make that yummy dinner. It doesn't it doesn't always have to be so serious as well and what I often say to people is things such as so When I coach people, I always coach people about, of course, trying to get their brand out and social media, because for me, my background is marketing. That is my background, and I love marketing and all about getting themselves out there. And the biggest thing I say to people is they could honestly be the best kept secret because nobody knows that they even exist. And they could have the most amazing projects. And I mentor some people who have done the most incredible things. and I talk to them about these incredible things and I say to them, how, how have you not documented any of this? How have you not shown any of this? Because you would have investors and people flocking at your feet. And they're like, Athena, we just don't want to be on social media. And I'm like, do you know what? I respect it. And I respect it up until a point until they say to me, but we now need to get more finance. And I'm like, OK, there are ways that we can get finance off offline. And I'll show you how to get the finance offline. But if you're trying to broaden that, you're gonna restrict yourself geographically. You have to get your brand out there. You have to get people to know about you. And I say to them, and then they say to me, the second thing they would say, is they'd say to me, but I don't have anything to post, or today I don't have anything to post about property. And I'm like, it doesn't have to be about property. It could be about yourself. And they're like, but why would people want to know about me? And I always say it's because people buy from people, always. They don't just, they don't just buy a business. They buy from you. And I, and I've said it on podcasts again, but I'll say it again, just in case people can't haven't listened to those podcasts. It actually caught me. Let me, let me ask you a question actually. Okay. And I'm not going to say my opinion about it. I'm going to ask you for your opinion about it. If someone was to direct message you, um, reaching out. Direct messaging you and either asking for help or asking for something, but their, um, their, the profile that they, that they write from has a business logo and the bio has no name in it whatsoever. It's just about their business. So it might be like higher returns, rent to rent, whatever it may be, but you don't even know what their name is. How would you go about responding to that person on a direct message? Right, so this is quite topical. So I've had a few of those recently actually. And then what I would do first of all, I actually go onto their page, look at their page and see what they've been posting. So, and I'll try and find like an about me post or who I am post, look at their story highlights to see if they've maybe, you know, put that as a highlight. And if they haven't got any of that, I honestly don't bother responding. I know it sounds harsh and blunt, but it's, there's no person behind the logo. Who are you, you know? So I wouldn't respond to those. The ones that have got a face or a person behind it, depending on what they've asked, I'll generally respond. Brilliant. There we go. That's basically in a nutshell. about you then? So yeah, yeah. So if you get that then as well, do you respond to someone that's just a logo or? So this If it is a personalised message to me, I look to find their about me or their introduction or to at least in their bio see a name. Let's say I'm like, oh, it's Adam or it's Beth or it's Sophie. At least I can say, hi, Adam, thanks so much for your message because I know who I'm speaking to. So the very first thing I'll say is I'll say, hi, can you please tell me your name? That's the first line I'll write. Even if they write me like a really long message, I'll say, hi, can you please tell me your name? Because I don't want to be talking to somebody. where I don't know their name. I'm like, who are you? I can't see you. I don't know. Are you, are you real? Are you not real? Are you AI? I mean, you don't know these days, do you? So the advice guys I would always give is, is first of all, if you're asking me, I would always try and put your picture as your profile picture and not your logo. That's the first bit of advice I would give. And then the second bit of advice I would give is to actually, if you don't want to put your face in the logo, at least put your name so that when people, when you message people, people know who you are and know that you're a person would be what I would say. But I don't know, do you agree with that quote? Does that sound about right? 100% yeah no 100% you hit the nail on the head people buy from people you know I work in sales and yes you know your company has to have the right offering and service don't get me wrong what we're providing has to be relevant but it's still the person that they're buying into and they're buying from so we talk about a lot in our industry you know like and trust and it's so true it is so true yeah um, do you know actually an example that I was, I was given quite a while ago and it was from, oh my goodness. It was from, um, I think it was from females that invest or female invest. There's like a group called female invest and they said something. This was about a year ago, but it stuck with me for a really long time, which was if you think about in business, let's just say that a person ran a business and it was a sunglasses business. And I had built up my personal brand. People followed me. for dog spam, food spam, property spam, life spam, whatever it may be that I put out on my social media. And I've always run the sunglasses business. I then stopped the sunglasses business and I shut it down and I decided to move over to swimwear. Do my people stay with the sunglasses because that's the company that they are actually loyal to or are they actually loyal to the person behind the brand and so they therefore will move over to the swimwear brand. And it's a really interesting conversation to say, it's not the brand or the company that they're loyal to, it's the person. And I find that so interesting when you're thinking about how to brand yourself as it were. And it's like when people change from HMOs to service accommodation, they think to themselves, like just if we do this from a property perspective. They think, oh, but people have always known me as the HMO person. People have always known me as the rent-to-rent person. And now if I change my tactics, investors and people are gonna see me differently. And it's like, no, they're not. They're just gonna see you as a person that diversifies, changes, adapts, and does something differently. Like for example, if I use my own personal circumstances, I'm now moving away from the rent-to-rent sector, which is how I started my property journey. But that's what it was. The whole point was to get into the industry and start it. I now want to move into building assets and to, and to go into kind of the bi refurbished rent refinance and flips. And that's the direction I'm going in. It doesn't mean I'm no longer doing rent to rent. It just means that I'm, you know, going on a new journey as it were. I'm so, you know, so, but what I'm trying to say is that you're, the people still stay with you because. it's you at the end of the day. You're still a person who is doing it. So I think social media is a really interesting one where you can, it's all about marketing and portraying yourself in kind of the right way, isn't it? Absolutely. I mean, so the podcast I did with Rosalia, we spoke a lot about branding. So she's the branding queen, isn't she? Um, and it was something she said about, you know, I asked her the obvious question, you know, what, what is a brand ultimately? And her answer was just great. You know, she basically said it's a, how does she word it now? She said, it's a feeling. That's the one. Yeah. A brand branding is a feeling. It's what people say about you, you know, when you're not in the room, you know, how you make them feel, um, what what they buy into you about, so all those sort of things there. So it ultimately comes down to you as a person. So, and we had that debate around, you know, personal brand or company brand, you know, which is best. And she just hands down said, you know, personal brand, 100%, 100%. So I think it just reiterates what you're saying there, that if you then went on to something different, people buy into you. So they're going to be loyal and come and come with you. I love what you just said, which is a brand is a feeling. I know that was Rosalia that said that, but you just reiterated what Rosalia said. I think that is spot on. A brand is a feeling. It's how it makes you feel. I really like that. I think that's perfect. And just to go back to... So, I'm going to go back to the beginning. things that you buy, oops, sorry. No, no, go on, go on, what are you going to say? I was just going to say, if you look at the things you and I, as consumers, you know, what we buy, whether it's food, clothing, we've all got a perception of what that is. Whether we buy food from Tesco or Waitrose, there's a feeling that if we're buying it from Waitrose, it's more, or Marks and Spencers, it's more luxurious or it's more higher end, whereas Tesco and Sainsbury's is more like your normal sort of food. And the same with clothing as well. It's that perception of the feeling that gives us if you buy a designer brand clothing. So... Yeah, I love that saying that it's a feeling. I love that. I could talk marketing all day is what I love to do. Absolutely. And then if we think, just think about social media then. So just revert reverting back to this because so many people use social media because I get so many messages about how to use social media effectively and, and how to help with social media. I think it's just such a topical conversation at the moment. And I don't know if you agree with this or not courts, but I always think of it as like a portfolio almost of your work and to show your journey. And what would you, advice be to people if they said to you things such as... actually no, let me not ask you a loaded question, let me ask you a different question which is if somebody came to you who was completely starting out in their journey, no experience, but they're about to take on their first property, what is the right time that they should actually start going on social media, showing what they're doing, start getting themselves out there and getting themselves open to the world? would literally say straight away because again showing that whole journey of progression and growth people buy into that a lot more I wish I started off a bit earlier but I was always saying to myself I need to have at least this in place first before I start going public but then I look at other people that are documenting right from the start you know from the first post being hey I want to get into property don't know what I'm doing anyone help me and the amount of support they get straight away just from that because What you'll find in our community is everyone or a lot of people are willing to help and share their knowledge and be helpful. So you put your hand up right at the start saying, look, I have no idea what I'm doing here, but I know property is a good thing. I want to get into rent to rent. Use the example. I want to get into HMOs. I want to get into commercial developments. Is there anyone out there that can help me? They'll probably get flooded with positive comments and offers of support and help. So I would say literally document as early as possible. I love that, I love that. And that is literally a conversation that I had with somebody recently who reached out to me. They were just about to start their property journey. They were just about to go out and start learning about how to take on their first property. And I said to them, right, this is what you need to do. You need to launch a social media page. You need to physically start one. Think of a handle, think of a nice photo. And they're like, oh no, I can't do that. I haven't got my first. my first property, I haven't got my first, I don't know what I'd post, I haven't got my first, I haven't... they kept saying those words, I haven't got my first X, and they're like, I don't want to start until I know what I'm doing. And I said, why? And they're like, because I feel really silly, I feel really stupid, I don't want people to perceive me in the wrong way. And they were putting up all these barriers in their own head about how they would perceive people. So what I always try and do is I always try and ask questions to people to get them to think about the answers to their questions, as opposed to just trying to give them the answers. So I said to this person, so you're telling me that if you saw, like no, I said it differently. I said, so if you saw somebody doing this, who had just started their journey, and they were just starting out and posting and things, I said, would you judge them in a negative way for doing what it is I'm telling you to do? Would you do that? and they were like, no, I wouldn't. And I said, so why do you think that people would judge you in that way? I said, it's all in your head. And they're like, yeah, I guess it is. And it's really interesting because it's literally what you just said, Court, which is you didn't start early because you wanted to have all your ducks in a row, basically, and all your bits. You're exactly the same. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know. I don't get it wrong, I did start a bit earlier still though, I did start before I had the actual project, but I just still wish I started maybe six months before, for example, because I could have done six months worth of posting about the viewings or sourcing or area analysis and research and do diligence, all that stuff is useful. Someone out there is gonna find it useful, someone out there is gonna relate to it, so. I tell you what, let's do this. Let's be really helpful and useful on this podcast. Why don't you give three ideas of either story or posts that someone can do who is brand new to property, like literally brand, brand new to property, doesn't have any experience. What are the first three posts that they could do to get themselves out there? So I'd say introduction, about me posts, 100%. So do that and pin it to your, probably start a new page, it'll be at the front anyway. But if you've got an existing profile already which you'll just get a transition into a property one, do that post and then pin it so it stays as one of your, you know, your first free posts that you have on your grid. So yeah, I'll do an about me intro post. And then maybe the second post, which is a follow on from the about me post would be. what you're looking to do, what the strategy is you want to focus on. Um, and then the third post, maybe just, yeah, maybe what you're up to day to day stuff than what you're doing, you know, so whether it's, you know, what, what you're doing currently in terms of what you work as your career, um, and how you look at the transition into property, just so people know where you're coming from, where you want to get to and anything in between. That's what I'd say. And I'm just going to add my own, you've done posts, so that's what guys you should do for posts. Use Quartz as inspiration. That's great. I would also give advice, which is look for five other... social media's platforms that inspire you, it can either be property or it could be completely separate to property. So I follow a lot of gym goers and I get a lot of my inspirational posts from a lot of gym goers and I think that if you were to actually look at those Instagram pages, see why it inspires you, what you like to see and almost write down some nuggets or save it on your phone or save on Instagram directly and just use that as inspiration. and also interact and comment on other people's posts and pages. So for example, you know, if you, if you start commenting and start interacting, people start to notice you. So I give you a really good example of this is, um, lately I've been, I've been posting stuff for girls and property and this per and there's this person who I've never actually seen before her kind of her handle as it were. And she's just kind of come out of the, the the woodwork almost. I'm like, Oh, who's this person type thing? And then she actually sent me a DM and I responded to her and I was like, do you know what girl good for you? Like, I love this getting yourself out there. But before she DMed me, she was commenting, liking all the stuff, the posts I was doing. And I think that's really good in terms of getting yourself out there and noticed as well. So I think that do Quartz's three posts and also Engage, it's social at the end of the day. Make sure you're engaging and commenting. And don't be what I refer to as a lurker. I don't like lurkers who just watch your content and do nothing with it. So definitely do that as well. And also, when you are engaging, actually engage. Don't just put a fire emoji or a fist pump. Actually write something tangible. You know, help the algorithm, obviously, but just to show that you are actually generally engaging. Yeah, I do find that when people just put their fire emojis, I'm like, because I always like to recognise people that have taken the time to comment on my posts. I think it's really important to recognise people who take the time to do it. And I always think to myself, how can I get creative with the different responses to an emoji flame? It's quite, it's quite, it's quite tricky. I'll hold my hand up. I am guilty sometimes of just doing a fist bump or a flame, but I generally try not to do that. I am generally trying to engage with something, whether it's asking a question back to their post, depending on what they've said, or just commenting on what they've actually said. Now, well done for that, or great achievement, or congratulations on X, Y, Z. So, yeah. Yeah. And also my final thing I'll just say about... Thank you. Thank you. And I've just got one more thing to say about social media then in that case, because I do just want to ask you quickly about something else, which is, um, a lot of people sometimes get caught up with this whole idea of how many followers they have. So they're like, I need to have loads of followers and I need to have, you know, all of this. And I always say to people, it's completely just vanity. It really is, it does not matter how many followers you have or how many likes you have. What matters is how many people are actually engaging with you and how many people are actually consuming your information. And I try and say this to so many people, I mean, of course, you and I both know that we have seen many, many social media pages where they have, let's say, over 50,000 followers, just for argument's sake, and they've got, what, like 40 likes? Or, or like... 12 comments and I'm like that's not a healthy page. A healthy page is one of yours for example. I mean let me just ask you at this moment in time when the podcast was recorded do you even know how many followers you have at this moment in time? Honest answer is no, because I'm not really tracking those metrics if I'm being honest with you. So, yeah. I know I can definitely tell you it's less than 2000 though. I know that for a fact. But I don't really track followers. No, but that's a good thing. That's what I'm trying to, that's a positive thing, you know. No, that's a positive thing. No, I'd never dig you out. No, no, no. I was thinking of it in a way that you're not, you're not obsessed with the followers is what I was trying to say. But also the fact that you have less than 2000 followers, that, the fact you get such fantastic engagement. Like I watch your, I watch your engagement and I watch your bits that go on and I just think to myself how incredible that is with the way that you are. So it's just fantastic with it. I really, really just think it's brilliant. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I don't chase the vanity metrics, so it's not for me, not for me. It's all about, like I said, purposeful connections. And we didn't talk about stories, actually. The power of Instagram stories, we'll just speak about grid posts. A lot of my relationships and connections have come from Instagram, I say stories, so I meant DMs, I don't know why I said stories, sorry, I meant DMs. So that's where a lot of my relationships and connections were built and grown. developed, expanded on whatever you want to call it. They all came from the DMs and the conversations that I had. which is absolutely amazing. The fact that, like I said, the fact that you were able to have that engagement, have all of the direct messages. What I'm trying to say is, is it proves the fact that you didn't need all these followers. It was, you were able to grow it through just having that. So I think it's absolutely amazing. So well done you, I think it's great. And in regards to then what you're doing at the moment, so you've got your HMO conversions, you've got your commercial conversion. I think you were actually saying that you were literally, you've just... completed on one or something like that as well. Yeah, so we completed on one in February. So it's an office conversion. So commercial to residential, we're converting that to a six bed HMO. So we're probably halfway through the renovation now. Yeah, we actually are. We're on week five of a 10 week renovation. So that's going well. A touch wood, there's been no hiccups so far. So let's keep it that way. And we've got another one in the pipeline. So we've got another commercial. office building that we're buying in the pipeline. So we're hoping to complete on that end of, end of March as well. So it's going to be a busy, a busy year for us. Wow, well done, well done. I just think that's absolutely amazing. And I remember actually, often when we went for lunch actually after the podcast, and you were actually telling me all about how you managed to get like one of your investors as well on board. And you were saying about, you just literally were just telling everybody what you were doing. And then this person came forward and said, I think I'd be interested in that. And we talk about this all the time, tell everybody what you do. And I remember you mentioning that to me over a Nando's, which was lovely, I love a Nando's. And it was just so great because I think that was a clear example again of tell everybody what you do. And I think that was a really, really good example of that. So I hope it goes absolutely incredible for you, all of those. And then just to kind of finish up with those. And I think actually... one of the property disasters might actually be linked to one of these as well. Do you want to just give us an idea of like a property mishap or property disaster just in regards to something that might have happened to you either on one of these projects or a different project? Oh, you know, I'd probably have to say our first HMO conversion. So we took out a bridge to fund the purchase and the renovation. So a hundred percent finance for the renovation and, you know, obviously the percentage towards the purchase. We stupidly only took out a nine month bridge. So what happened was on the day the work was supposed to start, our builder pulled out and said, they're no longer doing our job. This was after months of negotiating, planning for the start date during the purchase, the conveyancing, sorry, he pulled out on the data job. So we had to go out and find another builder, which took another maybe what, three months before we could start. Now, by this point, we're already three months into a nine month bridge. We've got six months left. The renovation is a four or five month project and we were in a bit of a pickle. So we had to extend our bridge. for an additional three months, which cost us about seven grand to extend. So that was a huge, huge mistake, and a faux pas on our part. So advice would be going forward, always take out more than you think you'll need. And if you complete earlier, then it's a bonus. So that was a costly mistake. My goodness gracious, wow. I mean, when you said nine months for a bridge, I went, that's ambitious. Yeah, or foolish maybe. You can use that word, you can use the word foolish. No, I don't think I don't think any and I don't think anyone should ever say anyone is foolish I think it's all learning. I think it's all growth And I think good on you good on you for getting in the game clearly doing very well And you know what lesson a you're gonna do things differently next time. That's all we can do in life We can learn and grow do things differently Do you know I think I might do actually a whole a whole one maybe on getting another mortgage person in just talk about bridging and financing creative strategies because a lot of people actually come to me asking about what bridging is, how does bridging work? And of course I'm not a financial advisor or a broker and so I always lead them and tell them to go find a really good broker or I direct them to somebody that I know. But I think it might be really good to try and get somebody on about that because a lot of people now are using bridging as a way to get into property and development, aren't they? Would you agree with that? Oh, a hundred percent. I get a lot of my friends now seeing what I'm doing. Obviously I talk about it, I'm on social media and they're obviously interested in like, how are you actually doing all this? And I use the word bridging and bridging still has that negative connotations to people who are not aware of what bridging is. So it's almost like a dirty word, isn't it? And you have to explain it to them with the caveat, I'm not a financial advisor, so don't go out and do anything based on my advice, speak to a broker and all that sort of stuff. So. I think that would be a great idea, Athena, getting someone on to talk about that because it, you know, used effectively bridging is a great, great way to grow a portfolio. So, and I'm learning that firsthand. it is because I also get messages from people and I don't know if you're the same because obviously I know that you've got a really good following platform within your network of people saying, oh, but I've only got 10,000 pounds or 20,000 pounds or 30,000 pounds. And because I'm down south, and you're down south, they always say the same thing. They're like, it's too expensive to get into property down here. And I always try and say, well, why don't you think about other creative ways of getting into the property game such as bridging such as private finance, such as whatever it may be. And I always direct them then to go and find the correct financial advisors in regards to it. But I think it's just such an interesting one where people I think are still so limited with their thoughts if they're not in the property industry or surrounding themselves with people as much as we are, where they have this limiting belief that they think the way to get into property is to save up enough deposit, such as 25%, to then go and buy a property to do something with it. And actually that- That is such a myth that I would love to bust because it's like, that's such an old way of thinking and you don't need that. And you, you could start today and you don't, okay, you don't have to start with rent to rent. You don't have to start with deal sourcing, try and get some cash flow. You could start right. If you wanted to at the deep end and say, right, well, how am I going to get this creative finance to take me there? So it's a very interesting conversation that I would like to, to. take forward I think with an actual financial advisor and broker just so I give a bit of knowledge out there to people if they wanted to go down that route would be really interesting. Yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, a lot of people just don't know what they don't know. And that's the reality of it. You know, if you don't know about bridging, if you don't know about creative funding strategies, then you just don't know. So unless you're surrounded by that and around those people, then you're just never, ever going to know. I know. And do you know what? Do you ever feel like sometimes you could be a bit harsh with yourself? I know I can be because we often say, why didn't I do it that way? Why didn't I do it that way? And people will say to me, I think you didn't know. You don't know what you don't know and you didn't know. And it's like, you get really harsh on yourself. yeah, if I knew what I knew now, I'd have been a millionaire 10 years ago. Put it that way. I'm putting it out there and saying it. Do you know what? I love that. That's the way we're finishing this podcast course. You're like, if I knew what I knew, I'd be a millionaire. I'm like, yes, that is fantastic energy. But do you know what? Now knowing what you know, you're now going to be a millionaire going forward. That's how I see it for you. So fantastic. Ah. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I've absolutely loved it. I feel like we've talked about lots of different aspects through to being a woman compared to, well, being a parent in the property industry, I should say, social media, commercial conversions, bridging. It's been a real mixture, but hopefully you've enjoyed it. And hopefully it's been a vast conversation. yeah, I love the conversations which are just about anything. You know, it's not too structured and you're only gonna talk about X and X, Y or Z. No, this has just been a free-flowing conversation about all the things that we're passionate about. So I've loved it. And again, it is an honor to be your first male. So, yeah. are, you are, and you're a fantastic first male to have. Absolutely. And I always want it to be on this podcast that people, when they're listening, because I know that the people that listen to this are either on a run or they're going out shopping or they're doing the kids run or something like that, school run. And I want it to just be as if they were listening in to friends sitting at a table with a cup of tea or whatever it may be and just chatting all things, property and life. And that's what I hope that the podcast is for so many people. and going forward. So thank you for being such an incredible guest. I really appreciate it. I'm sure that people are going to want to get in touch with you after this podcast and get to know you more and get to know everything that you're doing because you're such an incredible guy. So how can people find you on social media? So Instagram is where I hang out. So my handle is this underscore is underscore courts. So that's the best place to find me on Instagram. Perfect, perfect. And if you wanna find me, I'm Athena Dobson, underscore official. We are Girls in Property on Instagram. And if you wanna email girlsinpropertypod at gmail.com. At this moment in time, and this podcast is gonna go out, as I said, it is a sold out event now for the Girls in Property retreat. However, if you haven't got your ticket yet, please do send me a DM, either with the word retreat, or just send me a DM in general, and I'll pop you on the wait list. And then if any space has come up, I can grab you a ticket to let me know. But. Quartz, thank you so much. Have an absolutely fabulous week. Thank you for coming on again. And well, I'll see you soon, which I know I will. So I'll catch you then. you are very welcome. Yep. Have a good week. Speak soon. Enjoy guys, bye.