26: How Katie night weaned her 2 year old and re-discovered herself in the process.

Ever felt drained, tired, and even resentful while going through the demanding process of breastfeeding and weaning your toddler? Join me as I sit down with Katie, a recent graduate of Own Your Breastfeeding Story, who courageously takes us through her night weaning journey. Katie’s transformation is nothing short of inspiring, especially considering she had recently moved to a new province and got pregnant while she was weaning.

What if I told you that a crucial factor in Katie's parenting transformation was a healthy dose of self-compassion? Yes, that's right. Together, Katie and I delve into how her newfound self-compassion not only enhanced her breastfeeding journey but also improved her understanding of her child's needs. We also talk about how this compassionate perspective has helped her create a safe and trusting space for her little one, something that plays a vital role in the emotional journey of weaning.

We also reflect on Katie's personal weaning process, underlining the importance of emotional safety and, once again, self-compassion. Tune into our conversation to discover how finding hope and support can pivot your parenting challenges and provide you with practical and comforting insights. Whether you're in the throes of your own weaning journey or about to embark on one, Katie's story will certainly resonate with you, offering not just hope, but also practical tips to cope and thrive.

Wanna join Own Your Breastfeeding Story?  Spots are open - get all the details here. 

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Watch my free, instant access workshop: 
Designing Your Pathway to Toddler Breastfeeding Mastery

Grab your free guide to say "No" to the feed while still saying "yes" to the need at  www.ownyourparentingstory.com/guide

Love this episode?!  Shoot me a DM over on Instagram @own.your.parenting.story and tell me all about it. <3

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:28

In this week's episode, I interview Katie Bella, who is a breastfeeding mom like you, and she's also a graduate of Own, your Breastfeeding Story. We just talked about her breastfeeding experience, going from feeling like she was up all night breastfeeding her daughter exhausted, tired, bordering on resentful, and where she is now, which is, as she describes, night and day. I hope you enjoy this episode and if you have any questions for me, of course, shoot me a DM on Instagram. I love hearing from you. So, katie, when you first reached out to me, before you even enrolled in the course, can you tell me a little bit about what your family dynamics were like, because they've kind of changed a little bit. You're adding in another one, but then also just kind of what the dynamics like. What was it like in your house, who was in your house and what was it like in your house who was in my?

Speaker 2: 1:28

house. Well, it was me. I was there, my two girls four and two and my husband when? So this was in February, so it was before my youngest who is the one weaning. She was not two yet. She turned two in April and she just was still nursing quite a bit through the night, like three, four times, like oh, I was up every two hours Like not newborn stage, but bad enough, and I had been breastfeeding since my oldest daughter and I just had weaned her gently. She was OK, she was time once my younger daughter was born. So it had just been four years of no break. So boob in the mouth in the night and I was tired.

Speaker 2: 2:23

Also, we had some big transitions in this past year and it ended up with separating from living with my mother. So I was used to having her support and going from that to on my own with two kids and my husband working a lot and in a new province. It was just like too much and I just really felt like I couldn't be the mom I wanted to be, because I was just so freaking tired and I definitely was starting to really resent my daughter. I resent any time she needed something from me. I didn't have the patience and I just knew something had to change. And I remember that you have this course and I was like I like to think I'm a hopeful person, but when I'm really in dire straits like that, I'm like there's no hope. Yeah, nothing. Maybe I'll just reach out on the off chance that maybe Jenna can help me a little bit.

Speaker 2: 3:18

I was pretty heartbroken over the whole thing. I was really at the end of my rope and we just had that. First, we just video chat. What are the words these days? Zoomed, video chatted, zoomed. And you just really infused me with hope. You made me see that I'm not alone and that there are other people who have dealt with this and walked through this before me, which is just like as moms, that's just so important to hear and remember that we're not the first ones to do these things. Yeah, the others have gone before us and we don't have to figure it out all our own. So that's really what kind of triggered that whole thing. Like I had that thought of, like maybe Jenny can help me to. Within like 45 minutes, I'm on the phone with you and being like you know what, like I'm gonna take this course and I have hope again that I might sleep.

Speaker 1: 4:12

I think what I remember the most, too, about that time and about when you reached out is that you were like my life will be better when my daughter weans. It was definitely like a mindset of everything is bad right now and it will be better when we get to that point. You're like how do I solve this?

Speaker 2: 4:30

problem as quickly as possible, and it was like this.

Speaker 1: 4:34

she's taking my sleep Like you're a sleep thief, taking out that whole middle part of what you actually did in the course and everything. Where are you kind of at right now with sleep and with your-. Well, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Well, being the type of person I am. At same time, I got pregnant Cause when you're getting older and you think I want more than two kids, let's just do this. So my sleep is still, unfortunately, disrupted, but it's because I have to pee. So it couldn't be more night and day. Like as I sit here, I'm in my bedroom by myself. So at the time, audrey was sleeping on a little cot on the floor and Olivia was sleeping in the bed with us.

Speaker 1: 5:20

Audrey was your older and Olivia was the one who was still breastfeeding.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Yes, thank you. It's been over a month now. We have successfully transitioned both of them to a double bed that they share in their own room and they go to sleep and I've even actually phased out Olivia's nap. So she goes to bed at like seven o'clock and she sleeps until like six, six, 30. Like there are definitely nights throughout the week where she'll wake me up at like one, sometimes four, it all just depends on how she is. But like she just comes into my bed, we snuggle for a bit and she passes right out again beside me and then I go right back to sleep. My milk has dried up. I'm almost at 20 weeks, so my milk actually has dried up and I'm able just to reassure her and say you know what, when the baby comes, you can have all the milk you want. You can have all the milk. And sometimes, if she's really upset, I still will let her kind of nurse a little bit for like two minutes. It's mostly just before she goes to bed. She'll say mommy, can I have some milk please?

Speaker 1: 6:16

So what I'm hearing is that in February, so it's very beginning of July now, so you've gone from. She's breastfeeding around the clock every couple of hours of her night is just like draining me to. She is in her own room sleeping mostly throughout the night, sometimes waking up once during the night to come snuggle.

Speaker 2: 6:38

That's what I'm hearing, yeah yeah, my husband and I are able to have our own room again, just the two of us, as it's like a little mini vacation before another baby comes along, Cause we shared a room for the past four years. I mean, it wasn't just and so it's like having the light on and it's nine o'clock like oh my gosh, it's bright in my bedroom, Like I. Just, it's so liberating having that time in the evening and it's really it's nice. No, I hear that.

Speaker 1: 7:06

So, coming back then, if we're kind of looking at the course, what did you do to get your child to be sleeping in their own room?

Speaker 2: 7:17

So I am the type of person when I feel like I have something on my to-do list, I have to just get her done. So I looked at this course and then, of course, we had started in February and I was sick, like and my kids are sick, and everybody was just sick for months, it felt like, and so it was really hard for me because I felt like I wasn't doing this course, how you set it up. I was like I'm supposed to finish this weekly, I'm supposed to do this journal weekly and I'm not meeting it and I'd be messaging and be like it's been three weeks and I haven't got through this module yet, like I am such a bad client, like I'm so sorry and you're like Katie, it's at your own pace and it's okay, and I was like, oh, okay.

Speaker 1: 7:57

So for some people like this, their journey, which probably would look a lot different from mine, cause you got pregnant in the middle of it. Maybe, yes, just maybe.

Speaker 2: 8:07

What, what, yeah, so it was like things that were helpful, obviously boundaries. A lot of things were about my own inner thoughts. I didn't realize how hard I was on myself. I didn't realize how mean I was to myself. One of the biggest pivotal moments that I felt was so impactful in this journey with you was that session that we had about self love and that self talk and just giving myself grace, and it did open up a whole world of being able to give my kids and my husband way more love and grace.

Speaker 1: 8:49

I'm not perfect, right, but it's still like night and day, I remember that that was a really pivotal moment for you, that self compassion piece, because just in the talk it was like what's one tiny, tiny little piece of self compassion that you can give yourself. I don't think in that moment you had the self awareness to say I beat myself up for being on my phone. But like in the coaching call, we were able to be like whoa, you're being really hard on yourself about that. What if we just shift that thought to saying you're just giving yourself some space? Yeah, that it's wise that you're doing that. I remember that just baby step of like don't put the phone away, don't do anything, just send yourself permission to say, oh, this is just where I am right now and this is what I'm doing, yeah, Completely groundbreaking, just being able to build off on that.

Speaker 2: 9:36

And then even I think it was the same session that we did talk about boundaries that Olivia can be her own person. I'm my own person and just honestly, being able to apply that to other people, other family members in my life, has been huge for me, because I didn't realize how much I was giving not wanting to, but feeling obligated to to certain people in my life, not that they even asked for it, but that's how I was raised, it was a culture in my home and when I stopped doing that, I had more to give to my kids, way, more, way, way more. I had more to give to myself and it has been like so freeing and it's. It's funny because, even like stuff that you would, it has nothing to do with weaning, it has nothing to do with breastfeeding, but it's the same principle.

Speaker 2: 10:29

So say, I read something and it's this ground-making knowledge and I feel like everybody has to learn it. I just want to have to go shout it from the roof top. I'm going to call up my dad right now and and he's going to see how he was wrong and I'm right and this is if we're going to, and I literally feel this this kind of like slow self-talk. It's not your job to educate your dad. You get to just learn that for you and you get to just keep it and you don't have to tell anybody about that. You can just learn it and then let it go and I'm like wow, like wow, I feel so free and just this whole boundaries thing. I never realized how much of how many burdens I put on myself. For what? For what?

Speaker 1: 11:15

Just taking from me, exactly so, and I hear like all of that and you and I know how that has impacted your breastfeeding. But I'm wondering if you could explain a little bit for the people listening, because even just the self-compassion, right, like what did that give you? How did that change things in your breastfeeding relationship?

Speaker 2: 11:32

OK, yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1: 11:34

In that sense.

Speaker 2: 11:35

Yeah, yeah. So because I was having so much more compassion for myself, I had more compassion for Olivia. I was seeing her not as this needy little being who is adorable, but just wanted to take everything from me to that she just wants love and wants connection, and that's good. That's good and normal, and that she's seeking it from me, her mom, that she feels safe to want that from me, and so it just opened up my own compassion and empathy for her as well. I would get frustrated and she could tell I was frustrated, and then she'd want to connect with me more to try to fix our relationship and I would be like get away from me.

Speaker 2: 12:13

Exactly, yeah Right. Whereas this was able just to stop the crazy cycle, it was able to say no, she just needs reassurance and I can reassure her and I can use my words and it also was helpful. Like again, other people's strings are going to be different, but Olivia, she's such a bright child and she's really good at communicating for such a young age Like I'm like blown away. I wasn't able to talk like that when I was two.

Speaker 1: 12:40

Honestly, though, too, like I will say that so often, moms come into the course and they're like my kid won't understand this, they won't be able to do that, and then I'm like just wait, just wait, yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:54

It's exactly that and you actually say that. You literally said that to me and I was like mm.

Speaker 1: 13:00

Even the mindfulness pieces are supporting kids with some of the tools that I have, they're like that's not going to work for them. They won't be able to understand that and sometimes I feel like it's because we as moms are still struggling to understand that and implement that ourselves. So it feels like how could they even grasp that what you're saying? Like, if it's for you and me, how could it for you? I'm just wondering that boundaries piece of seeing yourself. You said it like you see yourself as an individual, like whole person and them as like their own individual person and with wisdom inside of them. All the things that they need are in there. So when you free that up, it's really cool to see how it blossoms inside. You're rushing development, but there's just things there that you didn't see before.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Right, and just something as simple as my tone of voice, because I wasn't feeling angst, I wasn't feeling hopeless or frustrated anymore. I was being kind to myself. I was meeting a need that I had and no one else was going to meet that need and I met it. So I met it and now it's met, and now I actually have a space to give. And so when I'm talking to her, instead of being like, no, are we done? Yet you know, like she could sense that and I'd be like you know what? Yeah, and even that your phrase of course, it's so handy, like it's such a reassuring phrase I was like of course, you want some milk. Yes, it's really nice. But you know what? Let's have a snuggle. Ok, you know what? It wasn't some like switch, it did take a few weeks. I was just reassured. I was like mommy loves you, I love you, I'm here, you're safe. And what snuggle, let's hold you. And then eventually she was, I think, believing me. I think maybe that that really was what it was, because she was probably afraid.

Speaker 1: 14:44

Katie, like I know you pretty personally too, so I know that there's intensity inside of you and it was just intensity inside of your kids and that's not always the case for everyone. So sometimes when we talk about that connection between mom and child, the unconscious level of them being able to pick up on your emotions, so even if you're doing your best to keep a calm voice and you're like trying really hard to like keep that calm voice and be that calm presence, and okay, I'm gonna do my deep breath and I'm gonna it needs to be authentic.

Speaker 2: 15:14

You really need to be able to get there.

Speaker 1: 15:17

Like, if you're just trying to be like I'm doing the thing, why aren't you listening? Why are you? Then it's not gonna work right. But what can happen too is. I love that you said like it took her a little while to believe it, and that can happen, especially when there was pushback, when there was a power struggle that was there. I don't wanna say it wasn't safe, because that's not what I mean, but you know the language that we use in the program is like safety and danger.

Speaker 1: 15:39

But yeah, for a small child it wouldn't feel safe.

Speaker 2: 15:41

Yeah, exactly. What have you?

Speaker 1: 15:42

said, and so it took some time for her to be like is mom really gonna be here for me? And not like a conscious thing, but it's like can I really trust you with all of my feelings, right, like, can I really? Trust you to show up here the way that I you know. So, I do think that that you know, like that's a real thing to say, like it took time for her to believe it.

Speaker 2: 16:03

Yeah, and I hope I answered your question because that was the thing. I just had to start implementing that boundary with her, but in a compassionate way and in like a genuinely compassionate way, and I think that's what's also hard is there's such a culture these days of this gentle parenting and I'm like it's like I'm trying my hardest to be gentle here, right, and then like my kids are like you're angry. I'm like I've gotta go calm down and I'll go and calm down. Then I come back and I apologize to my kids and I'm like you know I am not a soft spoken person, like that's just not gonna be me. No matter how many gentle parenting books or seminars or things I read, it's just not what I am.

Speaker 1: 16:49

And that's okay and that's the thing is that, like, gentle parenting is really about being gentle with yourself, like first, because you cannot give your kid anything you don't have. So if you want your child to feel safe, to feel loved, to feel free to be themselves authentically, which I think is what most of us really aspire to Like, that's why we're like I want my child to feel secure, I want my child to know how to feel loved and give love and feel that deeply. But then we don't have that ourselves. We don't treat ourselves that same way, right? So we can't.

Speaker 2: 17:32

Well, and it's also like we can't give that to them. If you don't really apply and look at the person itself, it can just sound like some abstract concept, like what makes one person feel safe and secure. It could make some other person feel turmoil. You know, you have to know your kid and then knowing yourself is so helpful, because obviously there's parts of you and them which is beautiful. They're their own person, of course, but it's just like okay, what looks safe for you and yeah, like that, what you were saying about that intuition and the mother's bond stuff, like it's wild, like just, and it's beautiful and it's cool and it's interesting and it's chaotic, yeah, so let's touch that for a second, because I remember you were like.

Speaker 1: 18:13

I thought you were going to tell me what to do.

Speaker 1: 18:16

Like the tips and tricks, the tips and the tricks. To give me the tips and the tricks to wean, right? I remember, in a coaching call with you, having just had a really hard day with my own kids, and feeling like, oh, I'm struggling myself, which just you know in full transparency. I'm not perfect, right, like I think, if a podcast listener doesn't know that yet, like I'm not perfect and I still have hard days with my kids, right, I mess up, but I scream at myself internally and occasionally that comes out, right, like there's those kinds of pieces. But I remember sitting there with you and you were telling me about what you were doing with your daughter and the strategy that you had come up with. And I just remember being like that was something I have never thought to do, nor ever taught to do, and yet it was inside of you.

Speaker 2: 19:08

It wasn't a tip or trick I could have ever given you right Like it was Wow, that's a good point, yeah, I never your own tip and trick right? So much of it stems from just this inner healing. Really, All you moms out there, if you're willing to do the work on yourself and it's hard work because it's painful to really be honest with yourself for what's going on internally and to admit that we got hurt along the way and we're learning how to get whole and healed, and it will always be a process, because this is what it is on this earth.

Speaker 1: 19:45

The process time. I feel like there's certain subjects like sex and certain things, that there's just so much cultural stuff around it. There's already stuff that we have from our own childhood and from our past, and then we have this layer of all these cultural pieces that come on top. And I remember, katie, when you came and you were like okay, I kind of stopped the course for a little while and I remember you were like well, she's too so she should have been. By now. There had been kind of an external voice right that it was coming in. And this happens. I kind of want to bring it up because it happens to everyone in the course. There's always a point at some point in the course, somebody comes to me and they're like well, I kind of stopped doing what you told me to do and I'm just ready to like use the tips and tricks. Now.

Speaker 1: 20:25

It's partly because it gets painful, right, like we're touching on something and it's just a point in the course where you're about to kind of hit a breakthrough inside of yourself, and your body, your mind are just protecting you, like I don't know if we can touch that yet, and I always trust it. I don't push on it, because just by creating the safety, just like you were saying, like when you create the safety inside of yourself, you can create that safety for your child, and so I see my role as just creating a little bit of safety for you. It's okay.

Speaker 2: 20:53

I'm here for you.

Speaker 1: 20:54

I got you Like we'll get through this, and then it's like oof, a new level comes, yeah, like.

Speaker 2: 21:01

I think that that was actually the session. That was the pivotal session, because that's what it really you did create a safe space for me to talk and share that's gotta work.

Speaker 1: 21:13

I think that it's like this is the idea and it's really the whole process that I bring and own your recipe and story. Is this idea of emotional safety right? Because really the weaning is an emotional process. It's emotional for you, it's emotional for your child and if you don't feel safe around those feelings inside of you, then you're just going to be kicking your body into a state of fight or flight which gets your child into a state of fight or flight right.

Speaker 1: 21:43

And that's when you end up with these false starts around weaning. It's really common for moms to come to me that I've been trying to wean for like a year.

Speaker 2: 21:50

Oh wow, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:52

Things right, like or doing all the things or you know, or feeling hopeless in the process, right. But that's the cool piece, is that the emotional safety. It's just feeling safe enough to move through it. So that's.

Speaker 1: 22:05

I mean, of course, inside of the program I talk about the neuroscience and the attachment theory and like all the reasons why these things are happening, and do my best to support you to walk through that slowly and really, really understand your body, your nervous system, your child's nervous system, all of those pieces that are at play, so that you're not just like you know whatever Like it's.

Speaker 2: 22:26

Yeah, you're intentional right.

Speaker 1: 22:28

But at the same time it really is. Yeah yeah, I mean, there really is like a moment where it's like I feel safe enough to do this right, like, and sometimes to do this is to wean, sometimes it's to night wean, sometimes it's to actually I feel safe enough to keep going and to not make any big changes. That's an outcome that happens.

Speaker 2: 22:50

Just to also interject, like now that I'm remembering. Actually I thought I was done but I realized that I don't even want to be done and I'll be done when she's done and I can. I feel comfortable milk first thing in the morning when she's waking up, milk at nap time and then milk before bed. And that was my goal and you're like that's a wonderful goal. And I was like, yeah, it is a wonderful goal.

Speaker 2: 23:14

And then it, just because of how, Olivia was it just ended up turning to like, okay, well, actually you don't have to have a nap anymore because you're staying up till 10 o'clock at night. Small child, what are you doing? No, so then I didn't even have to wean her for a nap because she just was done having naps. And then, obviously, just because my milk has dried up and she has felt safe and can trust me we've had it enough and we've practiced enough and we've built that trust enough that when I say, oh, honey, the milk is gone and but it'll come back and she just goes, okay, right, I can feel my body just the tension release, because I definitely, like, would be afraid that she's just gonna scream and shout and fight me, you know, and I would build up that.

Speaker 1: 23:57

I think you, yeah, and you got to that place too, that safety where it was like, because she kind of was when, even when you were starting the weaning process that you were like I have the capacity to be the grounding place for both of us, even if there is some tears and there is pushbacks, like you found that within yourself, to say like I can hold all of this sweetheart in like a real, genuine way, right, like authentically.

Speaker 2: 24:23

Yeah, yeah, exactly Like not taking it at all or whatever, but and it also just really helps, like even with my four year old, like when she's like freaking out not always when I remember to, but I really love it when I remember to, because it's wonderful and powerful and I grab her hands and I say honey, look at me. And I say feel my hands, because she's just freaking out right, her mind's going all over her place. And I just said I'm like feel my hands, feel my hands. Do you feel my hands in your hands? And then I kind of say like, oh, you know, feel the seat under your bum, like, feel your feet.

Speaker 2: 24:53

And I just tried to get her into her body again and it is marvelous, like how, how different of a life I would have had if someone would have told me that, you know. But I'm trying now with them and it's just exciting for me to see the instant results of calming yourself down that way. And you know, and yeah, the biggest thing I think that I actually still struggle with is just remembering all these beautiful tools, because sometimes in the moment you still get triggered and you forget.

Speaker 1: 25:26

Yeah, and on one hand, you're going to get triggered until you die because you're human and that's just going to happen at some point. But it is a matter of your brain rewiring, right, like. So it takes time to be able to hold more space in those moments to make conscious choices, because sometimes we do get stuck in a reactive state. But the more you practice, the more your brain wiring is literally changing. Okay, so, as we're kind of like wrapping up what was your favorite thing out of the course itself, I'm just curious.

Speaker 2: 26:00

There were just so many good things. I favorite One thing, the most helpful thing, was the thing about boundaries, because it had so much more of an impact on my life than I ever could have imagined. So I had learned about boundaries, I had taken things like this, I've taken courses, but for some reason, because it had to do with my child and then dealing with my inner child, that boundary piece finally stuck. It was like I have read about boundaries for over a decade and I never seemed to be able to really implement them. And I think that that's it's gotta be my favorite thing because it was the most crucial thing for how healthy and I just need to keep build.

Speaker 1: 26:40

Is it a common thing?

Speaker 1: 26:40

Yeah, it's common that people say that afterwards. I think I feel like I was in a very similar situation to you, that I did not get boundaries, Like, even though I learned about them for so long. So once I kind of really synthesized it inside of me and I feel like my approach to boundaries is just a bit unique. I'm not trying to be like oh, I'm so special, but it just makes sense in my brain, right, Like it's like. I explain it how it makes sense to me and I do find that it really resonates with people. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:07

I think that's what is beautiful about the course is it can appeal to so many different styles and types of people. You covering the science stuff and then, but you also going into relatable emotional stuff and then it's just because there's some people who that makes them tick, learning about that things that could help them click. Like I think about my husband. Like he wouldn't get a lot out of the way that I would get it, but how you explain it using scientific terms and stuff, he'd get so much out of that part of it. You've made it a course and you've gleaned from so many different resources and to put together to give it for like a buffet, so that it's like there's something for everybody and they're gonna get something out of it. Like I really don't think that someone can genuinely take your course with an open heart and get nothing out of it. Like I just don't think that's possible.

Speaker 1: 27:57

Well and it is true, because sometimes just understanding that you are impacting your child and your child is acting you like that first module is enough for people to have the shift that they need. Just having that kind of awareness around it will shift things where their child will literally start sleeping through the night because it shifts things inside of them. It just click, it just mindset shifts right. It clicks that was the thing they needed. And then for other people it's around like needs. It's like, oh, understanding my needs, understanding their needs. And then for other people it's boundaries, where it's like that's the thing I needed for this to really solidify inside of me and all the rest supports it.

Speaker 1: 28:33

But that was kind of like the key for you, right?

Speaker 2: 28:36

Yeah, like it really yeah, like where it's I like that term a key right, because it does it opens up all the other things, because the other things have wonderful fruit as well, like it's useful, amazing, important content. But there's just some things that just kind of helped unlock it, where you can be like easily implement these other things because you've got that one piece. So, yeah, that was definitely my favorite part.

Speaker 1: 29:02

Yeah, If there was like one kind of piece of advice that you could give to a mom who is where you were at the beginning. Maybe is considering the course, maybe not, but what would be something that you would offer to them?

Speaker 2: 29:17

Yeah, I would just tell them that it's going to be OK, that there's hope, that Jenna is a deeply caring and loving individual who is passionate about research. So if you're on the fence about doing this course, I would say you know what do it? And, oh, my pregnancy hormones are going to make me a hormonal injury. I'm crying. Oh, that is rotating. It will change your life and you will never be the same and you will feel more like who you want to be, who your true self is, and I think that that was what's the coolest thing is that I've been able to embrace who I am even more because I've taken this course it was so much more than a swinging and embrace my kids. There is hope and there is a way out and you're not alone and you don't have to do it alone and you shouldn't do it alone. Yeah, especially when you got this right in front of you. You got options.

Speaker 1: 30:16

It's right there. I remember when we were talking and I was like, ok, katie, imagine that you were watching that happen on a TV, like if you're watching yourself interact with your kids. But it wasn't you, you're watching somebody else. What would you say? And you were like I'd say they were an amazing mom. And I remember how you had literally called yourself a horrible mother a few months before. I mean, it's a privilege to just be able to witness that too. Right, I love what I do because I get to witness moms just meeting themselves, meeting their bad ass self. You know, yeah, pleasure having you on the podcast, katie, my love. It was also a pleasure having you in the course too.