Mary Adkins [00:00:00]:
For those of you who are listening, please remember that your employees are your small business's biggest asset. And if you fail to respect their boundaries, that's only going to lead to burnout. That's going to lead to them not being capable of doing their best work, and it might lead to a high turnover rate as well. So, basically, when you fail to set and respect team boundaries, you're limiting your business's ability to grow.
Victoria Rayburn [00:00:24]:
Hey there.
Victoria Rayburn [00:00:24]:
Your listening to the Priority Pursuit podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping small business owners and leaders define, maintain, and pursue both their personal and business priorities so they can build lives and businesses they love. I'm your host, Victoria Ravern, and as I have shared in many past episodes, I am a recovering workaholic. Now, I am sure that many of you listening can relate, because when you're passionate about what you do, it's easy to let your work become your top priority, all consuming and even your identity. And if you aren't careful, it's also really easy to make your team feel pressured to do the same. With this in mind, I am so excited to have Mary Treefrog's operations director on the show today to break down exactly how small business owners and leaders can set boundaries for both themselves and their teams so they can prioritize what's most important. Mary, welcome back to the show.
Mary Adkins [00:01:19]:
Thanks so much for having me back. This is one of the few places where people are actually excited to talk about scheduling tactics and organization and protocols and everything. So everything that I love. So definitely excited to be here.
Victoria Rayburn [00:01:34]:
Okay, well, to be fair and 100% honest, we might not be quite as passionate about developing systems and protocols as you are. But few people are. It's your zone of genius, but it is also necessary in running a small business. And I'm just really excited to get to have this conversation with you today. But, Mary, before we dive in, for those who haven't had the pleasure of meeting you, would you mind introducing yourself and telling us how you serve small businesses in your role at Treefrog?
Mary Adkins [00:02:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. My name is Mary Atkins. I am the director of operations at Treefrog. I've been helping Treefrog serve small businesses for more than nine years now. I'm essentially the person who determines the project schedule within our agency. I keep all of the projects organized and running smoothly, hopefully from inception through implementation, both internally and externally.
Victoria Rayburn [00:02:24]:
Yeah, we're going to have to figure out something exciting to do for your one decade, because it's coming up. But guys, in other words, Mary runs Tree frog from determining client timelines to literally figuring out what we all need to be doing on a week by week or even a day by day basis. Mary makes sure everything gets done and that we all stay on track.
Mary Adkins [00:02:46]:
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say that I run tree frog, but yeah, I make sure that everything gets done and that every team member knows what they're responsible for so that we can serve our clients well and have the capacity to offer resources for other small businesses like this podcast. And to be fair, I do use a lot of different automation tools, such as ClickUp, that help me make that possible.
Victoria Rayburn [00:03:08]:
Yeah, no, y'all, regardless of what she says, mary runs Tree frog. And that's why she is the perfect person to have on the show to discuss how to prioritize and set boundaries in your team's daily and weekly schedules. Because more often than not, Mary is the one who decides what the agency needs to be prioritizing and when so that we can serve small businesses well within the boundaries that we have set for our team. And we'll get into what some of those boundaries are in just a little. I mean, Mary, is that fair? Is that your job description?
Mary Adkins [00:03:39]:
Yeah, I mean, I wear a lot of hats, but that's pretty much my job in a nutshell, yes.
Victoria Rayburn [00:03:44]:
And a quick note. As we've mentioned in past episodes, this is exactly why we recommend small businesses hire an operations director or an integrator as soon as they are able. As small businesses scale, small business owners and leaders and upper management typically just cannot tackle all their responsibilities and manage the production schedule. It's just too much. You just get to a point where it becomes a full time job. Now, when this happens, it looks very different from industry to industry, but you truly do need somebody full time to oversee logistics and timelines and all the things. Even with the help of automations and other tools, it's just a full time job. So, Mary, if we have not said this enough, thank you.
Victoria Rayburn [00:04:26]:
On behalf of our whole team, thank you so much. You're amazing. And yeah, like I said before, I'm so excited to get to discuss this topic with you.
Mary Adkins [00:04:34]:
Well, thank you so much. Know, that organization and working with Truefrog brings me nothing but joy. So I do love my job and I love getting to do these things.
Victoria Rayburn [00:04:43]:
Okay, well, I'm really glad you do, because as I've told you multiple times, I could never do your job. I mean, I consider myself an organized person, but it's just a different level. Oh, man. Okay, so, Mary, before we do get into tactical stuff, though, let's start with the big picture. When we say boundaries, what do we mean and why are boundaries so important for small business owners, leaders, and their teams?
Mary Adkins [00:05:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. Let's start with the what and the why of boundaries. Put simply, boundaries are just guidelines that are put in place to protect everybody's time, protect their energy, resources, and reputation. And boundaries are important because they help prevent burnout, they help prevent missed deadlines, and they prevent, basically letting work negatively impact our lives outside the office. Victoria, I think you've done an absolutely amazing job of breaking down what boundaries are and how to set them up throughout the history of this podcast. I mean, this podcast literally exists to encourage small businesses owners and leaders to define and maintain and pursue both their personal and their business priorities, which cannot happen without setting boundaries. So, listeners, if you struggle to set boundaries, I want to encourage you to go back and listen to specifically episode three on how to set boundaries in your business and get your clients to respect them. While it's framed from the perspective of a photography business, Victoria's insights are just so helpful.
Mary Adkins [00:06:08]:
So definitely go give that a listen if you haven't already. That being said, for the sake of this conversation, I want to say that it's important for small business owners and leaders to establish and respect boundaries for their teams. Because they're passionate about what they do. They're often tempted to work around the clock. And without realizing it, really, sometimes they can expect or pressure their team members to do the same kind of you do what you see kind of situation. So I know that we'll get into this a little bit later, but for those of you who are listening, please remember that your employees are your small business's biggest asset. And if you fail to respect their boundaries, that's only going to lead to burnout. That's going to lead to them not being able capable of doing their best work, and it might lead to a high turnover rate as well.
Mary Adkins [00:06:55]:
So, basically, when you fail to set and respect team boundaries, you're limiting your business's ability to grow.
Victoria Rayburn [00:07:02]:
Yes, Mary, that is such a good point, and I'm so glad you brought it up. Like you said, we'll get into a bit more of that later, but really quick. I do want to note that you do an incredible job of setting our team up for success. I mean, I'm always thankful for you, but I've literally never been more thankful for you than I was as I prepared for maternity leave, y'all. Mary had my schedule so clear and prioritized that I knew exactly what needed to get done. And that know I could fully, actually disconnect during maternity leave without letting anything fall through the cracks. I didn't have anything to worry about. And this was such a blessing to be able to sign off knowing that everything that needed to be done had been taken care of and also to have a team that respected my time with my family.
Victoria Rayburn [00:07:47]:
So, Mary, thank you so much for that. But on the note of teams. Well, okay, so on the note of before I left from attorney leave, I think I said, don't hesitate to contact me if you need anything at all, about ten dozen times. And Mary nicely kept telling people, like, no, don't do that. But this is most definitely because, again, I am a recovering workaholic who honestly panicked about the thought of not working for so long. With this in mind, Mary, in your opinion, why do small business owners and leaders tend to struggle with setting and keeping boundaries?
Mary Adkins [00:08:20]:
Oh, my gosh. During maternity leave, you popped up every once in a while in a chat to ask a question, and we would be like, victoria, what are you like, we don't need you. Go away. We were just trying to get you to relax and have your time. That was so well deserved. So I get where you were coming from, but I'm glad that we were able to figure that out in a way that you could focus on what you needed to focus on. Yes.
Victoria Rayburn [00:08:43]:
Even if I wanted to break my boundaries, you guys wouldn't let me.
Mary Adkins [00:08:46]:
Yeah, we shut that down.
Victoria Rayburn [00:08:47]:
It was a great maternity leave.
Mary Adkins [00:08:49]:
But your question is a great question. Why do we struggle with setting boundaries? And I think it comes from two kind of positions. The first is that many small businesses are like tree frog. I mean, Kelly created our agency because she saw a need and she wanted to help people. Our mission literally includes the phrase, helping others succeed is what we are called to do. So small businesses want to help people. And that often incorrectly translates to wanting to say yes to every project request or making ourselves available at all hours a day, or not asking for and charging for what we're worth. And just so many other instances of failing to set those boundaries that are good for every single party involved.
Mary Adkins [00:09:32]:
Basically, when you're passionate about what you do and you feel called to serve, it can feel really counterintuitive at first to set and stick to those boundaries. The other reason that I think that small business owners and leaders often struggle to set boundaries, and I think you talked about this in episode three, and I experienced this personally in my own life as well, is because we're scared. We're scared of upsetting clients and customers. We're scared of losing business or of not being enough. And those are all valid feelings. But we're here to tell you, and we're still learning ourselves, that by not setting boundaries, you are even more likely to upset people. When you can't meet those deadlines and you aren't producing your best work and your employees are getting burnt out, those boundaries are there to help. I know I already mentioned that I recommended going back and listening to episode three, but I'm going to encourage you just one more time, because in that episode, Victoria does a really good job of covering how to communicate those boundaries in a way that serves your customers and your clients well and makes them feel cared for.
Mary Adkins [00:10:36]:
And that's just, I can't emphasize how important that is. But basically, in my experience, small business owners and leaders fail to set boundaries because they feel called to help others or they're scared, or maybe some combination of both. But while we absolutely empathize with this, it's a problem. Because when you fail to set boundaries, you and your team will inevitably become burnt out. Miss this deadline and experience those negative impacts on your life outside the office.
Natalie Franke [00:11:04]:
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Victoria Rayburn [00:11:49]:
Many small businesses don't have an effective marketing strategy, and because of this, they try one tactic after another without seeing results. This not only prevents consistent business growth, it makes managing marketing efforts more difficult than it should be. As a marketing agency for small businesses, we understand how frustrating it can be when hard work doesn't deliver the results that you want. Because of this, tree Frog has developed a proven four step marketing system that will help any small business grow. On our website, you can also schedule a 30 minutes discovery call to discuss working with Tree Frog to build a marketing strategy that will allow your small business to finally see the growth you've been working so hard to achieve.
Victoria Rayburn [00:12:27]:
I feel that in my bones and a little called out while I.
Mary Adkins [00:12:31]:
Me too, though.
Victoria Rayburn [00:12:34]:
The saying that it's like you teach or you talk about the lesson you need to learn, like, yes, guys, this is always a lesson for us. But setting boundaries is still something I struggle with. I know a lot of our team does. Like Mary said, we're really working on. Yeah, I mean, I often struggle with this because I feel called to serve small businesses, and I definitely fear not performing well enough, doing enough, or just being enough. And I know that so many of our listeners can relate. So, Mary, on that happy note, now that we've shared our inner thoughts, what are practical ways that small business owners and leaders can set boundaries in their daily and weekly schedules?
Mary Adkins [00:13:18]:
This is where I thrive. This is my little happy place as far as being at work goes. So I'm so happy to get to discuss this. Setting schedules, to me, is like putting together a puzzle. So, when you're putting together a puzzle, you know, the first step is that you want to find all of those edge pieces, and you want to connect the porter or the puzzle boundaries, if you will. So you've got your boundaries with all of those edge pieces. That's your puzzle border. And then you have just enough puzzle pieces to fit inside of that border, and you don't want to end up with extra pieces.
Mary Adkins [00:13:55]:
So if you treat your schedule like a puzzle, you know, you only have a certain amount of work hours in each day, each week, each month, et cetera, and those are your borders, and then all of your business tasks are your puzzle pieces. So what you have to do is you have to figure out how to fit all of your work tasks into the puzzle without having those extra pieces laying around. Victoria, I know you and Zach got into puzzles a little bit during COVID right? Does this make sense, or am I starting to sound like a schedule puzzle fanatic?
Victoria Rayburn [00:14:24]:
No, it definitely makes sense. I mean, you told me that you had a puzzle analogy coming, so loving it. And, yeah, we definitely got into puzzles during COVID like so many people. Puzzles and this podcast are literally the results of the wedding industry shutting down during COVID when I was still working in the wedding industry. But, yes, that makes perfect sense. Let's talk more about puzzles.
Mary Adkins [00:14:43]:
Okay, amazing. I'll keep going, but stop me if I start to sound like I should be in the loony bin. Okay, so here's one way that small business owners and leaders can define those tasks or puzzle pieces, if you would. First, you want to make sure that you're listing all of the projects that are on your plate, because if you don't know what you're doing, then how are you going to put it all together? You want to break each one of those projects down into individual tasks that make up that project. Once you have that, you can estimate how long it's going to take to do each task, what resources you need, everything that's going to be involved with that, and then you'll be able to see that that's how big that puzzle piece is. Then from the project deadline at the end of the project, you know what it's due. You can work backwards by knowing when each project needs to be completed, how many steps each project will need, how many tasks are involved, and how long each step you are going to take. You know how big each of those pieces is, and you're going to know when to start, where to start that project.
Mary Adkins [00:15:49]:
Sometimes just determining a timeline for a project is enough, but small businesses often have multiple projects or on their puzzle table, if you would. There's just so many things going on. As a small business, we're in charge of HR and sales and marketing and invoicing and all kinds of other things. We have to have space for it all. So we have to figure out what do we prioritize. And this can get very easily overwhelming, which is where a project management system like ClickUp becomes a huge help. Through a system like ClickUp, you can easily plan those project timelines, set priorities, delegate the tasks, and communicate with your team and anything else that you need, honestly, to keep your projects running smoothly. To keep along with the puzzle analogy, this is like grouping those puzzle pieces by color or by shape and working on just those sections first instead of trying to do all of the pieces at once.
Mary Adkins [00:16:47]:
Okay. I could go on and on about schedules and setting project timelines and everything for hours, but I am starting to run out of puzzle analogies, so it might be best to kind of move on from now. So good.
Victoria Rayburn [00:17:00]:
Yep, definitely lived up to the hype. I was really excited to hear. You know, I really love the puzzle analogy just because whether you are a solopreneur or you have a team, you're able to look at the schedule like a puzle. You've got to figure out how it's all going to fit together. So thank you so, so much. I do just want to note really quick, I know Mary has mentioned ClickUp several, several times, and even if this does sound a little bit overwhelming, guys, once you start diving into something like ClickUp, you can set up templates like chances are, if you're, chances are you serve your clients the same way. Like at Tree Frog, if we have a flywheel marketing client, come on, they're going to get all the same things. So then as a result, it's not like every single time we have to figure out like, oh, this piece is going to take this much time.
Victoria Rayburn [00:17:44]:
It's like, nope, Mary has it all ready to go and we add a new client and she is able to plug those pieces in. I mean, is that fair, Mary? I guess I say that because I've never been on that side of ClickUp. I just look at ClickUp and do what you tell me to do.
Mary Adkins [00:17:55]:
Yeah, absolutely. Between templates and automations and just projects that you are an expert at and you know you're going to do over and over again. It's so easy once you've got that initial set up to kind of just hit go and then kind of just maintain it as it does the work for you. So absolutely, you're the right with that.
Victoria Rayburn [00:18:15]:
Yes, but you need the integrator or project manager to handle those things for you. Okay, so just quick recap and just so nothing gets lost within puzzle jargon. Essentially, in order for small businesses to set boundaries and priorities, they need to determine how much time they have, determine what tasks need to be completed and how long they will take, and then determine a project timeline working backwards from the desired completion date. Is that fair? Yeah.
Mary Adkins [00:18:45]:
And this works for, I would say, most projects. There's going to always be a few exceptions, but this is a really great way to make sure that you are hitting those deadlines every single time. And I know that it sounds like it can be a lot, but I promise you that this can be a really simple process. When you use, again, a system like ClickUp or there are multiple ones out there, it doesn't have to be ClickUp. It could be Asana or Monday or Trello, even though I love ClickUp and I think that it does all things a little bit better than those other services, you have to find what works best for you. Right. But a project management system like this is going to allow you to see what every team member schedule is, all of the project schedules and how each task can fit into that and how it all fits together.
Victoria Rayburn [00:19:30]:
Yes. Okay. And on that note, and not to show our age, but I very much remember when you were having to manually determine project timelines and spreadsheets or like project management systems at the time that did exist, you were still manually having to input things and it just looked miserable. Yeah.
Mary Adkins [00:19:49]:
When I first started tree frog, which we've already determined was about a decade ago, we were actually using a combination of a whiteboard with magnets that clipped onto postit notes, and we would just move those around based on where the project was. And you know what, to be very fair, we made it work at the time. It allowed us to function. But I'm not going to lie, it was not my favorite. So I'm so thankful. There are now really great project management systems out there, and they continue to grow and change. We could probably do a whole other episode on switching from ClickUp 2.0 to 3.0 and all of the AI and all of that can be involved. But yeah, making manual timelines for our team in this season of business, it would not be, I think, quite as possible at this time, for sure.
Victoria Rayburn [00:20:43]:
Mary, I'm just waiting for you to design your own project management system. As many as you've touched. It would just be great. But anyway. Okay, so you talked about teams. On that note, it's so important for small business owners and leaders to establish and support their teams boundaries. We touched on this a little bit before. But, Mary, how can small businesses establish cultures where their teams have healthy boundaries? And I'm really excited to talk about this just because I think it's not something that a lot of small businesses think about.
Victoria Rayburn [00:21:13]:
Even when they're establishing company cultures, setting and protecting, you know, they can protect their family, their employees'lives, outside the office. It's just not something that really gets thought about enough, and there's not enough intentionality in it.
Mary Adkins [00:21:26]:
Yeah, and I think that that's a really good word, and I'm really glad that we're getting into this, because in all honesty, it's something that we witness in small businesses a lot. They fail to intentionally prioritize this kind of thing. And it's not out of maliciousness, it's out of really just care for the business. And so that's probably why we see it so often, is because small business owners are so passionate about what they do. That isn't something that is a priority, but definitely needs to be. There are a lot of different choices that small business owners can make to establish a work culture with healthy boundaries. And I think the most important thing to remember is to respect your team, give them the autonomy to advocate for their own boundaries, and most importantly, honestly, is just to communicate. More specifically, I think small businesses can set determined working hours, communicate them, and most importantly, stick to them.
Mary Adkins [00:22:20]:
At Tree Frog, we work ten hour days Monday through Thursday, and we are not in the office on Fridays. And I love that so much. There's a bunch of different reasons we decided to do that, but with where we are now, externally, at first it was really hard to say no when clients were asking for meetings on Fridays or asking why we weren't available on Fridays, but now we communicate when we're available. And not only is it easier to redirect those clients to a time when we are in the office, but we're also getting fewer and fewer requests like that because we've communicated that boundary ahead of time. And then internally, we do our best to respect office hours. We don't over our schedule. Our team members, we don't expect them to work late or on their days off. And any emails received over the weekend can be addressed on Monday.
Mary Adkins [00:23:10]:
I know that I've personally always really appreciated the boundaries that have been set and respected by not just Kelly as the owner of Tree Frog, but by the whole team as well, and in a ripple effect, the clients too.
Victoria Rayburn [00:23:24]:
And y'all, just for the record, our team isn't over scheduled because Mary controls the schedule and she has done the work to determine how long each and every task our team has to complete takes. So as a result, we aren't over scheduled and even have buffer room for the unexpected. Just want to make sure credit is given there.
Mary Adkins [00:23:46]:
Yeah, I mean, that's always the goal. And it does take a lot of practice to get there, and we are always learning, but we want to do that because we need to have those boundaries set. Because if we don't have those boundaries, and if I'm over scheduling people, then we're going to experience burnout. And as you know, as we've said this whole time, I'm super into all about systems and protocols. So something else that small businesses can do to establish a culture that has those healthy boundaries is to document those protocols and for communication. I mentioned the emails earlier by kind of setting that boundary in writing ahead of time. As you're onboarding new employees, they know from the get go what to expect. For example, do you know who to go to in your organization if you need help? Say it.
Mary Adkins [00:24:40]:
Be a client name or a certain file or whatever it might be. Where do you go if you need help? And what is the best way to communicate with them? Is it email? Is it slack? Is it the water cooler? For example, if someone has a job position or a project that requires their full attention for an extended period of time. So in my mind, I'm thinking about Jen our web designer, she has to really kind of focus and sit down and do a big chunk of the website at one time. And if she's getting distracted, to have to reset and come back into that is just really hard for her to do. So it's nice if she can kind of sit and have uninterrupted focus to get that done. Well, that's so important because we don't want to communicate with her in an intrusive way. So we don't want to be sending her something that's got a noise notification. We want to send her maybe an email that can be addressed whenever she is out of that focus time and has time to address our question.
Mary Adkins [00:25:45]:
You would know through protocols and communications, just by looking at blocked time on the calendar or by just kind of seeing what tasks are on their schedule, you would know if they're available, if they're not answering maybe why that might be. And just by setting these protocols, that's going to prevent so much frustration and that's going to prevent project flow disruptions as well. And it's so important for small businesses to set these rules for conduct and other expectations as well, through an employee handbook, because an employee handbook is going to set clear guidelines, including what steps to take if boundaries that have been set are broken. With a small team, it feels like it might be easier at first to simply just tell employees to live by the golden rule. And we all wish that we lived in a world where that was always going to work, but it's too ambiguous and it's going to lead to trouble down the road, unfortunately. So setting those expectations in clear guidelines is so important with small business culture, it's important to listen to the team and know that it's okay to adjust those boundaries when necessary. I mean, not every small business is going to be able to offer extensive benefits, or arguably, every small business can serve its employees well by creating and setting those boundaries and helping those team members thrive.
Victoria Rayburn [00:27:03]:
Yes, that is all such good advice and a lot of stuff just really sit and think about. And I hope everybody listening really does think about it, because, man, there are just really great ways to serve their team. Like you said, even if they can't offer extensive benefit packages, the least they can do is have boundaries that allow their team to. Yeah, Mary, like you said before, it is so important for small business owners and leaders to establish and respect boundaries for their teams, because again, a small business employees are its most valuable assets. Now, Mary, as we wrap up this episode, I'm going to do a little mind reading of our listeners, if that's all right. If someone listening is thinking like, yeah, that all sounds great. I would love to just have this puzzle that fits perfectly together, but there is just too much on my plate to possibly set boundaries now. What advice would you give them?
Mary Adkins [00:27:56]:
Yeah, that's a good question. And to be honest, brutally honest, there is too much on your plate right now because you didn't set boundaries in the first place. I know that's a little hard to hear, and it is absolutely fine to deal with those consequences now. But I would encourage people to kind of take note about how bad that feels, how stressful it is, and to make plans and set boundaries so that you can avoid that in the future. If you don't start to set boundaries, then nothing is ever going to change. So as a people pleaser, I get it. I get it so much. And it's something that I'm continuously practicing at and it takes a lot of practice and you're not going to get it right every time.
Mary Adkins [00:28:40]:
There have been a few months where our content team has been so overwhelmed and I felt like I failed doing my job and they ended up stressed because of that. So it takes practice and you're going to make mistakes, but the key is to keep at it. The key is to be organized and persistent and to respect those boundaries. And that will lead to healthier business relationships, happier, more effective team, and better project results.
Victoria Rayburn [00:29:09]:
Yeah. And we're just going to end there because that was a beautiful, honest answer that all small business owners and leaders should take to heart. Mary, thank you so much for coming back on the show and for sharing even more scheduling boundary and prioritization wisdom.
Mary Adkins [00:29:25]:
Yeah. If you need any more puzzle analogies, I'm more than happy to come back.
Victoria Rayburn [00:29:32]:
We will happily, happily have you back. Now. To those of you listening, thank you, y'all for so much for tuning into another episode of Priority Pursuit. If you enjoyed this episode, we hope you'll take a moment to share it with your small business friends to leave us a review on Apple Podcast, and that you'll join us next week for even more marketing boundary and priority driven tactics you can use to build a life and small business that you love.
