How to Handle Ups & Downs in Business with Jennifer Roach

Businesses face challenges and triumphs—it's all part of the game.

But how do you manage the rollercoaster of running a business without losing your momentum?

In this episode, I sit down with Jennifer Roach, founder and CEO of NextGen LLC, a company that excels in innovation and inclusion. Jennifer brings a wealth of experience from her expansive career, offering you tools not just to survive but to thrive amid business uncertainties.

She shares how embracing change and innovation is not just necessary, it's vital for long-term success. We also discuss practical tips on maintaining resilience, why adapting quickly matters, and how strategic thinking can turn potential setbacks into powerful comebacks.

So don’t miss out on these essential strategies and real-world advice from a seasoned expert. Tune in now!

Specifically, this episode highlights the following themes:

• Importance of aligning with trends and stakeholder expectations
• Managing business cycles and ‘S-curves’
• Innovative approaches to managing business growth and downturns

Other Mentioned Links & Resources

Visit NextGen LLC’s Website:
http://www.nextgen-llc.com

Learn More About Blue Sky Thinking
https://www.nextgen-llc.com/blog/blueskiesahead

Learn how to write your Marketing Guiding Statements:
https://www.treefrogmarketing.com/marketingguidingstatements

Learn More About Treefrog’s Small Business Marketing Resources & Services:
https://www.treefrogmarketing.com

Receive 50% Off Your First Year of HoneyBook:
https://www.treefrogmarketing.com/honeybook-coupon-code

Join the Priority Pursuit Podcast Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/179106264013426

Follow or DM Treefrog Marketing on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/treefroggers

Follow or DM Kelly Rice on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/treefrogkelly

Follow or DM Victoria on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/victorialrayburn

Transcript

Jennifer Roach [00:00:00]:
Part of innovation is to understand those trends and then chart saying, okay, accepting that, how do I chart a course for the work that I'm responsible for? I'd also say another reason innovation is really important is the changing way we do work. We're looking at changes in what is the work, as well as how do we do the work. And I think breaking that down and then being innovative and how we explore that for, you know, again, the areas that we have authority over, I think will create new opportunities going forward.

Victoria Rayburn [00:00:33]:
Hey, there. You're listening to the Priority Pursuit podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping small business owners and leaders define, maintain, and pursue both their personal and business priorities so they can build lives and businesses they love. I'm your host, Victoria Rayburn. And if you have been in business for a while, you know that there are inevitably ups and downs. You've likely experienced seasons where there's more work than you can handle, as well as seasons where you're hoping and praying another sale will come in. While much of this can be handled through effective marketing, ups and downs and business are completely normal. And according to founder and CEO of NextGen LLC, Jennifer Roach, you can actually prepare for your next x curve. Jennifer's experience in the business world is vast, so I am going to let her tell us all about her career path in just a moment.

Victoria Rayburn [00:01:28]:
But as an experienced entrepreneur, Jennifer now helps other businesses and entrepreneurs envision their destination, unlock their potential, and achieve their dreams. Jennifer, I am so excited for this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Jennifer Roach [00:01:43]:
Thank you for having me.

Victoria Rayburn [00:01:44]:
And guys, just a little tidbit of information. Jennifer does happen to be Mary's aunt, so, you know, Mary comes on the show regularly to share all of her organization and system systems wisdom. So we're just getting to hear from more of the family today. Funny coincidence. But anyway, Jennifer, like I said, your business background is super, super vast. Before we dive into today's topic, would you mind introducing yourself? And if you don't mind, please just share what you do at NextGen just to give us a frame of reference for this whole conversation.

Jennifer Roach [00:02:16]:
Sure. So I'm the founder and CEO of NextGen, which is a consulting, coaching and training company. I'm a keynote speaker and executive coach on innovation and inclusion. And I really feel like where innovation and inclusion are, including the minds of others, is really where the magic happens. That's why I founded this company. So my company specializes in helping both companies and innovators find their next s curve. And so that's a way of thinking about what's next for you? The next big thing? Some key talks and workshops that are included in that that I do for folks. Things like the signs and signals of obsolescence.

Jennifer Roach [00:02:54]:
You know, we're in a changing world. There's a lot of them out there leading diverse and disperse creative teams. I did a lot of work in global engineering teams and product design teams, and so have some insights from that, as well as doing workshops for innovators themselves and individuals to have more fulfilling lives and to be able to bring their full selves to work. And so one of those is, I call design for greatness, and another is dynamic balance. Dynamic balance is kind of my philosophy about work life balance. So I think we'll probably get into that from a background standpoint. I am a Purdue chemical engineer, process engineer. Lots of experience in process design and engineering, and then I'm also a certified quality engineer.

Jennifer Roach [00:03:37]:
I have 31 years experience in R and D at a major consumer products company, and there I led innovation in four different consumer product categories and probably more than seven major brands over that time. I am an industry expert in commercializing transformative process technologies. So, basically, how to change the game for the next decade or more and enabling breakthrough consumer experience, manufacturability, and proprietary advantage. So, yeah, I hope I can bring some of those insights to bear for the folks on this podcast today.

Victoria Rayburn [00:04:13]:
Yes, absolutely. And like I said, with your vast, vast business experience, you were just the perfect person to bring on the show, because I am sure you have seen a whole lot of ups and downs in various businesses over the years, and you obviously do an amazing job of preparing your clients for their next escrow curve. So, I do want to ask, Jennifer, before we get into the nitty gritty information, I'm super curious about your answers, because, again, you have a ton of business experience, and this is the priority pursuit podcast. So we're going to start by talking about some priorities. But can I ask, what are your personal priorities and what kinds of boundaries do you set to protect them?

Jennifer Roach [00:04:51]:
Yeah, I love that you start with this as a practice in your podcast. It's part of what interested me on coming on here. So my personal priorities are faithful family, friends, and purposeful work. So faith for me is about my relationship with God, and that extends, you know, my local church, my community, and it also informs the work that I do. You know, it's foundational to who I am. Family. I'm married 35 years together, three grown kids, son and two daughters. All of them are practicing engineers.

Jennifer Roach [00:05:22]:
So everyone's out of the nest.

Victoria Rayburn [00:05:23]:
Oh, wow.

Jennifer Roach [00:05:23]:
Yeah. And, yeah, my family's my heart, and we enjoy, you know, getting together often with extended family, lots of things, doing things together, travel, boating, cookout with pools, you know, all this good stuff, and then friends, you know, girlfriends, friends from college, colleagues, my community, and then purposeful work. So for me, that's helping people discover what their God given gifts are and realize their potential. And really, if you think about it, companies are like groups of people, and especially in a small business, you can definitely see it. And so this purpose can easily be extended to help companies and then, so boundaries how I manage this. My personal philosophy about work life balance is really, you know, that it's precarious. And so I call that dynamic balance. So if I can get a little nerdy with you, if you think about it, we have both static and kinetic dynamic forces acting upon us at any moment.

Jennifer Roach [00:06:26]:
So we have the kinetic, dynamic forces of inertia, gravity, and then we have the push and pull, literally, of all the demands in our lives. And we have to make a decision at every moment where we'll focus. And so being clear on priorities is super important to be able to do that. And I also think you have to reassess sort of like recalculating, like your gps does, recalculating limits every now and then to kind of refocus and train your eye on what's most important. So for me, those clear priorities and prioritization is critical. And one way that I kind of sift through them is I think about what can I uniquely do? What things can be done by others? You know, maybe I'm not the best person to do it. And some can be designed out from the beginning. Some could be maybe delegated, or you hire a person, and then other things are the thing that I uniquely need to do.

Jennifer Roach [00:07:20]:
Second part of that is I align with stakeholders, which is a fancy way of saying, you know, hey, if I need my husband in this, you know, you know, I gotta, gotta ask for his buy in. Kids, parents, in laws, you know, and in a corporate setting, it's whoever your boss is and the key partners that you need to deliver with. Maybe in a small business, if there's also a board or whatever, it's really who do you need to execute your plans? You need their buy in. And then I plan my calendar. So I literally take what's important to me and I build it into my calendar, and I go through the different roles in life that I have, you know, as a business owner, as a wife, as a mother, daughter, whatever. All the different roles that I have and I think about for each one of those, what does it mean to be who I aspire to be in that? And what are the key dates that are important? And literally, like, when I was in corporate world, you know, before small business, I would take my calendar at the beginning of the year and book those critical dates for the year. And literally, I would, you know, you can always take back, you can always give back a vacation day or a day off. You don't have to take it, but when your schedule gets booked months in advance, as I'm sure many folks who are listening do, it's difficult to clear the calendar.

Jennifer Roach [00:08:34]:
And so that's why I do it this way. I kind of protect those days, and then I also build in margin, so, and I know it sounds like, oh, must be nice, but we have to, we have to, we can't run 100%, you know, or we will burn in. And so building in margin, I mean, when my kids were little, I would make decisions about in that idea of who could do something versus what am I going to uniquely do. One of the things I chose to uniquely be the person to do was the time before school and tuck in time to make sure that I was there for that. And so you want to choose what's important to you and then build in those moments and build in margin for yourself to be able to rest and exercise and even just chill sometimes and not be scheduled. So you have to do that. And I had an experience recently where I had a. A conference that I really wanted to go to and really important material that I wanted to see.

Jennifer Roach [00:09:37]:
And I also have a really special trip that I'd planned with my husband for a key birthday. And it turned out as I got the flight plans altogether, I was risking missing a flight for what was most important to me, to do something that was important to me. And so what I did is I went back and looked at it and found a way to virtually do the event while still going on the special trip. So an example of building, I gave myself some room so that, you know, planes don't always run on time, and that way I'm protected there. And then the last thing I'd say about that is, as I've gotten older, I would say I have much more appreciation for what I will call linger. So linger, like, hang out, create special moments. I mean, things like, and I mean, I'll tell you, looking back, I'm so thankful for the times that I have done that, you know, plan a little extra time. Get brunch before you go shopping for the special event, you know, hang out, spend a weekend of downtime, you know, with, with people that are special to you.

Jennifer Roach [00:10:44]:
You can't get those times back. So do that. And then a subset of that. I'll call in. Linger is, as everybody's grown up and people are in their own lives and busy, we now have everybody's schedules to work with. So I'll say, enjoy the permutations. So if you think about a math class, you don't always get all of the, everybody together all the time. The permutations would be instead of five of us, maybe there's four, or maybe there's two, or maybe there's three different combinations.

Jennifer Roach [00:11:13]:
And enjoy that. Like when my kids were first getting ready to go to everything, go away to, you know, sleepaway camp where they go to college, it felt like it wasn't a family vacation if everybody couldn't be there. And I had to kind of embrace the season and just say, you know what, let's communicate fully. Here's where we're going to be. If you can make it, that's great. And then find ways to include people when they can't be there so that they're still caught up on, you know, the fun things that happen.

Victoria Rayburn [00:11:45]:
I love that we have very similar processes. And, I mean, it's really cool to hear somebody with grown children kind of their perspective on things because, you know, so much, so much changes. Well, Jennifer, again, loved everything, loved everything about that response. And when we are talking about priorities, can we also talk about business priorities? May I ask, what are your top three business priorities and why? And again, because you have all this vast business experience, I'm super curious to know your priorities are today. Again, as somebody with so much experience.

Jennifer Roach [00:12:22]:
Yeah, so, so my first, and it's really, I would just call it more of a driving force for me at this point in my life. It's to support others in their journey. So this podcast is, you know, right in my lane. And it's really to share wisdom to help people and their businesses create the next generation impact on the world. And this guides me in choosing where I spend my time. You know, what I carve out time for? The second one is about driving meaningful change with respect to innovation. And I like to say I can be technology agnostic. I don't have to be the expert in the technology.

Jennifer Roach [00:12:57]:
I understand what's important about the key strategic decisions of how to switch technologies or how to switch strategies. And so that's an area that I want to make an impact on for businesses. And I think it's important on a grander scale. It's important for our economy that businesses are booming. It's important for our country that we have the ability to make products here and, you know, have the services that we need. And then the third would be to drive meaningful change in the way that we do work. This is more the inclusion piece for me. I've been in industry more than 30 years, and I have to say the changes that I expected, or what I expected, you know, straight out of school versus what it is today, I expected better.

Jennifer Roach [00:13:39]:
And I'd like to be a part of changing that and making the world a better place, you know, more inclusive environment for women, more inclusive environment for people of color, people with disabilities, and different thinking styles. And if you think about it, you know, the problems that we have as a country or as a business or whatever have been there, and we haven't solved them the way that we're doing them. So we have to think differently to solve those problems differently. And I think that means including more minds in the process.

Natalie Franke [00:14:06]:
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Victoria Rayburn [00:15:29]:
Love all of that, and I'm so glad we took the time to discuss what your priorities are, because those were such great answers, and I can't wait for listeners to hear. Jennifer, I'm so excited to dive into today's conversation, which again, we are exploring how to handle the ups and downs in business. But you obviously help businesses foster innovation. That's a huge part of what you do. So if you don't mind me asking, in your experience, why is innovation important for small businesses, and what can small businesses do to stay innovative? I think it is really easy for a lot of small businesses to get so caught up in the day to day that they forget to innovate. They forget to what they're going to say, use that part of their brains or make that part of their business plan. So, yes, in your experience, why is innovation important for small businesses and what can they do to stay innovative?

Jennifer Roach [00:16:20]:
Yeah, so innovation is very important, I think, in the world, and it's accelerating. The pace of change is accelerating. I think we all feel that, you know, especially, like, if we think back, you know, everything we've been through with the pandemic and what's happened since then, the pace of change in technology, in healthcare, you know, geopolitical, economic, environmental data, you know, how you store data, how much data is flowing at us. All these things are changing so fast. Energy. So the landscape is rapidly changing around us. And so part of innovation is to understand those trends and then saying, okay, accepting that, how do I chart a course for the work that I'm responsible for? And so I'd also say another reason innovation is really important is the changing way we do work. So in the past, everything was face to face communication and so forth.

Jennifer Roach [00:17:17]:
There's been much more remote and hybrid work options. And so that's kind of changed the way we think about roles. And do we really need people in the seats sometimes? Absolutely, yes. Times, maybe there's other ways of doing the work. And so we're looking at changes in what is the work, as well as how do we do the work. And I think breaking that down and then being innovative and how we explore that for, you know, again, the areas that we have authority over, I think will create new opportunities going forward. So as far as how do we stay innovative? Again, there's these trends going on. I subscribe to all kinds of feeds.

Jennifer Roach [00:17:56]:
I think the fact that people are listening to this podcast is an example of, you know, of watching for trends and create, you know, listening for new information. I'll just say the future is happening now. I mean, it always is. There are spots in the world, somewhere where something is happening that could disrupt your business. And so the more you know about that, the more you can be prepared for that, and the more you can happen to, you know, the market. And I think that informs, then how do we show up? So, being aware of trends. Second part is, I would say, as far as how to stay innovative, one thing that I've done personally, I created what I call my board of directors. And so they're not necessarily, you know, paid board of directors, you know, whatever, but they're mentors, advisors, kind of almost sponsors, you know, sounding boards, people that I value their point of view, and people who challenge me to think.

Jennifer Roach [00:18:48]:
So being able to have people to go to when you have a question or you want to bounce an idea and get perspective can be really helpful. And, I mean, sometimes I know when they don't like it, it's a good idea. So it doesn't mean you do what they say. It means you take in and they help you make your ideas better. And I'll just add a shameless plug. I offer private team coaching. So if folks are, you know, in a spot where they want to turbocharge their plans, I can certainly help with that. And then the last part to me that's important about how to stay innovative, and it sounds super corny, is that I think you need to dare to dream.

Jennifer Roach [00:19:25]:
So we have inside of us, I think, ideas, and sometimes we have the solution, and if we just pull it out. So I think we sometimes we get so caught up in the activity cycle of how we do business today and how we make money today that it's hard to see other ways in the future. And it can be really scary to think about how to step into that. And so I coach that to do those as separate conversations, like create some space without judgment where you can zoom out and take a look at the whole picture. If people want to google this, there's a topic that's called blue sky thinking. I've written some on it. There's other things out there on it, but I would recommend doing some blue sky thinking, which means you literally take a step back and imagine what is possible. If it's okay, we could go through an example of that real quick.

Jennifer Roach [00:20:22]:
Oh, yeah.

Victoria Rayburn [00:20:23]:
Absolutely.

Jennifer Roach [00:20:24]:
Okay. So with blue sky thinking, you're going to want to imagine your relaxed and observing thoughts as if you're watching clouds float by. So imagine, you know, you're on this lovely green hill, you're looking up at the sky, and you're super relaxed, and you're not judging. You're just kind of watching things float by. And so I recommend having a piece of paper. And if you're assuming whoever's listening to the podcast, you are not driving at this moment. If you're able to safely, you can close your eyes, or you can stare out at something beautiful that kind of zones you out. And so the first prompt I'll give you is the future.

Jennifer Roach [00:21:04]:
So think about the future where you want to be 510 years from now with respect to your business. What do you imagine? What do you see happening? What are maybe some new products or services you'd like to be offering? Maybe it helps to get in that moment to think about where you might be personally in five or ten years, where you'd like to be. For me, it helped me to think about what's going on with the family. Are the kids grown? Are they little? What flexibility do I need in my job to be able to do that? Just jot those things down. You maybe have some goals for your business, some dreams you'd like to pursue. Maybe they seem like too silly to even speak. I'll tell you, still write it down. And it could come to you in fragments, like pieces of a puzzle.

Jennifer Roach [00:21:52]:
So a fragment, a thought, maybe a word. Sometimes I think in pictures, I mean, people have different thought processes, but sometimes I'll see an image and I'll think, well, that makes sense, but I'll just capture that, you know, why, when I'm trying to do this, do I keep thinking of this other thing? Write it down? And then diagrams. I mean, I would see charts, designs of things. So, so whatever comes to mind, just write it down. May not make sense. Don't judge. Don't, don't try to make sense of it. Just capture it.

Jennifer Roach [00:22:26]:
And then what I do is I kind of tuck that away and come back to it. And then some of you. So this is kind of a not for everyone kind of speech. Some of you may have heard that and said, what the heck is she talking about? I didn't see anything. And if that's true, maybe a different prompt would help for you. And I think sometimes people think visually, sometimes people think kind of right to left dream and then figure out the plans to get there. And some folks think, today, now, what's going on? What keeps me up at night? And both of those, there's not a right or wrong. Both are right.

Jennifer Roach [00:23:08]:
And frankly, I think you need a bit of both to get a balanced view. So the second prompt I would give you different piece of paper because it has a different vibe to it. I don't know, is to think in the present tense. So what's your self assessment of the business, what's working, what isn't, and think about. I mean, maybe you have a document, a report you write that gives that. So you already know where in your files go pull up. Oh, yeah, I already have that. But think about what those key issues are, and do you have a plan to address them? If you do, that's great.

Jennifer Roach [00:23:45]:
Just jot that down. Or maybe there's some things that are far away and you don't know how to address them yet. You maybe are a little concerned. And, I mean, people have different prompts, different motivations. One of my ways of innovating, for me, a huge driver, is the things that keep me up at night. So I think of it as my subconscious mind is trying to solve the puzzle, and that's why it's bothering me. And so writing down is beautiful because it takes it off your mind, puts it on a page. I tell myself, nobody's ever going to see this.

Jennifer Roach [00:24:17]:
And then, and then that helps me just go write it down. And by doing that, you get it out of your head so your mind can relax. You put it down. And I would just, you know, no judgment. Don't worry about any emotions. Don't worry about fear. You're gonna figure it out. That's why you're doing this exercise.

Jennifer Roach [00:24:36]:
And so by looking at it from different vantage points, you can get some valuable information about maybe what's working, what isn't, where you would like to go to in the future. And often you can design the solution or your next s curve. You can design based on the things that you'd like to be different in your business. And you can often connect those with your dreams if you're honest with yourself about what those things are.

Victoria Rayburn [00:25:04]:
So good. Thank you so much, Jennifer. And, yes, I mean, like we said, you know, a lot of people, probably a lot of small business owners, we know, like they just a lot of times don't have the capacity to be innovative. But I would argue that this is more important now than ever, especially with the emergence of AI. We have seen so much change for small businesses so quickly, literally, as a result of just that. So I love that you just, I'd.

Jennifer Roach [00:25:30]:
Like to add on that, on AI, I think what distinguishes us is our creativity. So the creativity of the human. And I think we need to bring our full selves into our business, and we have the ability to solve problems. So AI, often, it'll look at what has been done. And. Yeah, okay, maybe for research and stuff, and maybe it'll chart that out in front, but really, you have the capacity inside of you to do so much more than that.

Victoria Rayburn [00:26:01]:
Amen. Yes. AI is not replacing people by any means, but if it can be used to make your life a little bit easier and allow you to work more efficiently, I'm all for it.

Jennifer Roach [00:26:13]:
Yeah, well, that's also the piece that is, um, you know, maybe there's things that I uniquely could do, and there's things that can be done another way, and AI would be one of those. Maybe. Maybe there's a, you know, some routine work that gets much easier.

Victoria Rayburn [00:26:26]:
Absolutely. Well, Jennifer, we know that as you work with your clients, you recognize that there are ups and downs in business. We all experience it, and you actually use the s curve graph, or model to explain the situation. So, can you please explain what an S curve is in business? And are they good, bad, or are they just, you know, part of being in business?

Jennifer Roach [00:26:53]:
Sure. Yeah. S curves. I mean, folks may have remembered this from math class. It's a, you know, it literally looks like an s. I think we'll probably have something in the materials. S curves are a name given to a mathematical logistic growth curve. And this type of growth is found in nature in lots of different places.

Jennifer Roach [00:27:13]:
So this is a mathematical model that's used to predict growth and kind of, you know, analyze the behavior of a system. So s curves are used to predict growth rates, and in nature, they show up in things like bacteria and yeast and other biological processes. And for some time now, management gurus have been applying s curves to innovation cycles to kind of explain and also predict things like market growth and saturation, capacity, of how high the market will go, all of it. It's an approximation, it's a mathematical model. It's a tool that might explain what's going on and help you predict the future a bit. But there's a lot of factors that could go into it and control different things. So one thing is the growth. So if you think about the steep part of the curve of an S curve, another thing, if folks are trying to visualize this, think of learning curve as well.

Jennifer Roach [00:28:13]:
That's another one that uses the same s curve. So the ascent is the steep part, and that's where you're growing quickly. Things take off, you're selling more than you can make kind of thing, or more than your schedule can contain. Plateau is, as you get, you know, a more mature s curve will start to kind of flatten out it'll slow the growth and it'll start to kind of flatten out and become super predictive. That's kind of around market saturation, where you say, you know, the way I'm doing things, I'm probably not going to sell above this amount. And then the watch out for all of us as business owners is what comes after that, which is the descent. And in nature, what happens is these s curves, they die off, they start to slow and shrink. And so if folks want to read more on this, I'd suggest, and I think we'll put it in a link, there's a professor at Harvard Business School, doctor Clayton Christensen, who did a lot of work in this area.

Jennifer Roach [00:29:14]:
He's since passed away, but his work is timeless. He had many theories and wrote a bunch of books. There's a really nice summary that was done after he passed that just shows what his key theories were. And I think that's probably enough for folks in this. But one of the observations is that businesses can be at the peak of their success, the height of their game and profitability just before they fail. And when we say fail, that's like they go extinct or they never, you know, don't make, they're just a portion of the company they used to be. The reason behind this is that, and part of one of his hypotheses and theories is that the daily running of the business leads to incremental decisions, incremental financial decisions that then push out these possibilities for the future and the time to act on those possibilities. You know, they, they don't address it soon enough.

Jennifer Roach [00:30:14]:
So, yeah, I think that's useful information, and I hope it encourages folks to, you know, try some things, experiment a little bit. And I think there's a way to have a disciplined approach where you kind of do both. You can manage the daily while you carve out a little bit of space to chart a path for your business of what you'd like it to be down the road.

Victoria Rayburn [00:30:33]:
Thank you so much for breaking all of that down. And then, Jennifer, I want to ask too, you know, an S curve in business. Like, is it good, is it bad? Or is it just part of being in business? Like, is it just inevitable?

Jennifer Roach [00:30:44]:
It's just, it's part of, it's a natural process. The idea is that you would want to. So they're nothing to be afraid of, they're just something to be aware of, and it's a natural process. And so what you'd want to do is periodically, you know, boost your, your s curve by new offerings, new innovations, and extend the life of that. So the idea is, with an S curve, is that you, in terms of managing it, is that you want to maximize the growth and you want to sustain that growth, that capacity or saturation of the system for as long as you can and reaching a larger client base, larger saturation base. So my analogy for this is like surfing, like ride the wave. So if you imagine you're surfing, you want to catch a wave, but to catch as many waves as you can, you've got to train. So think about what you would need to be surfing.

Jennifer Roach [00:31:43]:
You would need time spent in preparation, increasing your skillset, testing your control strategies, your maneuverability, and then also gaining muscle memory so that when the big wave comes, you're prepared to succeed with that wave. And I think managing s curves is much like that. It can be worked into the day to day of how you manage your. So when you have a current s curve, that's your managing your current business. I mean, that's the way what you already do, creating a new one, is the combination of that deep dive into your current business and reflecting on any changes that you'd like to do, as well as building in some of the blue sky visioning work of where you'd like to go in the future. Like, what is that? Market trend analysis, landscape analysis? And how does that feed into your business? And then I think it's a full gut check to say, what do I need to be doing for the future to have the business that I want to have, and what is possible in running the business that I have, where I could start to carve out some in market experiments and learn about it and harness and own that future.

Victoria Rayburn [00:33:02]:
Okay, Jennifer, just because you kind of answered all of my next questions, which was great, just kind of in one fell swoop, which was great, just in case some people, I mean, I know when a podcast is audio and they can't necessarily see, some people are very visual. So if it's okay, I'm just going to kind of repeat back what you said. Just so again, so visual people might have a good idea. So essentially, you know, with an s curve, it's like we have this portion of the s, you know, if the s is sideways, just for the record. But, you know, there's going to be a point where people are building up and up and up. And maybe this is because this is the launch of a new product. You know, maybe it's the launch of a brand new business, but essentially, like they're just in that growth season, then they're going to get to know kind of the top of that, like that s hump and they'll plateau right there. Like, things will be pretty steady, but then inevitably they're going to get to a point where they see the downward portion of that s.

Victoria Rayburn [00:33:57]:
And so this, you know, it is inevitable, like you said, but this is a good time to be really be doing that innovation work, that deep work, and thinking about, like, okay, what is next for my business?

Jennifer Roach [00:34:08]:
Yeah. And I would think. I would think it, it could start sooner. Right. So before, before you hit that Max, maybe when you have, you know, you're excited and you've caught up in the growth and you're able to meet the capacity of whatever that is, the service. And as you get more efficient in running your business, you can carve out some of that efficiency and reinvest it. In thinking about the future and maybe trying some things, I think of a friend who's a restaurateur, and he has taken a location that had been through several different restaurants. It kept failing.

Jennifer Roach [00:34:46]:
He bought this place that we thought was a terrible location because so many people had failed. And he's had a thriving business for ten years. And so he would add on, add on special things, didn't have to change the menu that much, add it on buffet and whatever. So what are the new services that you're going to offer in addition to what you currently do?

Victoria Rayburn [00:35:04]:
Yes. And yeah, being able to do that preemptively is probably going to, you know, very much prevent giant, like, funky looking s and, you know, slowly but surely be able to even out over time. So, Jennifer, if somebody is listening right now, though, and they are on the downward portion of their s curve, and they're like, what the heck? What am I going to do? Do you have any advice for them? Like, we already kind of talked about the vision casting portion of this, but if somebody, like, tomorrow, they're like, we really got to, like, build a new s curve. We've got to get back on top. What advice would you give them?

Jennifer Roach [00:35:37]:
Well, I think, I think that's a powerful motivator. So the consequences of not creating the innovation is a powerful motivator and also can help inform what innovation you might need. Because you can understand if business is moving away, why, where are they going to? What has changed? And maybe you haven't changed, but maybe the world around you has changed. And so understanding what those differences are and then restating, you know, having a new launch, soft launch, whatever of your new packaged idea could bring them back. I would also recommend if there's kind of lapsed users, like maybe you have your most loyal customers and maybe you're not seeing them lately. That would be good information to understand why you always want new sources of, you know, new, new customer base. And then if it's a repeat business, you may depend on returners. Right.

Jennifer Roach [00:36:34]:
So it just depends on what the business model is. But I would go in and look at that and try to understand, you know, do some little focus groups, reach out and, you know, which is a conversation, just conversation. Hey, haven't seen you in a while. What's up? Anything I could do better? You know, part of what's hard about this is the more invested people are in their business. Like, the more they've built, the more successful it is, the harder it is to hear feedback. So, so, you know, there's a, there's an element of stay humble so that people will really give you the full story. And, you know, you can also send others out, not you, you know, to go get that information. If that's easier, maybe they'll tell someone else and they won't tell you.

Victoria Rayburn [00:37:20]:
And, you know, that goes back to the whole innovation topic because there are not businesses out there that started doing things one way and continued to do it the same way now and forever that continued to be successful. You know, I think about Amazon, for instance, you know, when they first started, and I'm going to show my age here because when Amazon, like, opened, like, and I was in college, like, they just sold books.

Jennifer Roach [00:37:41]:
That was it.

Victoria Rayburn [00:37:42]:
That was all. And, you know, they have slowly but surely become the place that we now just push two buttons on our phone and, you know, it's there within two. Whatever you want is there within two days.

Jennifer Roach [00:37:54]:
Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah. If you look at how many things the phone has replaced as well, it's, it's really something.

Victoria Rayburn [00:38:01]:
Absolutely. Well, Jennifer, thank you so much for this conversation. I have no doubt that as we wrap up here, people are both feeling at peace about the idea of having an s curve in their business, but then also feeling motivated to really manage their next s curve. And again, as we wrap up here, I do just want to ask, where can people find you, connect with you, and learn more about the resources and assistance you offer businesses. And we will definitely be sure to include all the links you've already mentioned in the show notes and all the places that they can find you in the show notes as well. But yes, please tell us, where can people find you?

Jennifer Roach [00:38:34]:
Sure. So they can. They can go to my website, which I guess you'll put in the links, but it's Nextgen dash LLC.com, and then we'll give them a little more information about me and so forth. I have a page on LinkedIn that's NextgenLLC, and they're, unfortunately, there's multiple next gens, but there's my face on there, so you'll know it's me. And on that, I also, I have a newsletter that I'm doing, and actually I'm starting to do some analyses more publicly about different strategies. And so there may be some things that people can learn. They can subscribe to it from my LinkedIn page. And then I also have a Facebook page because what I found is that some people don't use LinkedIn.

Jennifer Roach [00:39:17]:
Like, I mean, LinkedIn, LinkedIn is great, but. But it's interesting because I would just say people don't check it as often. Some don't. It's not in their standard thing. So I cross post and then always willing, you know, for folks to reach out, email me. My email and my phone number are all listed on there. People can reach out. We can talk about what's possible.

Jennifer Roach [00:39:38]:
And I do coaching sessions, so I'm happy, happy to arrange something for your listeners.

Victoria Rayburn [00:39:44]:
Oh, wonderful. Again, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for your time and just sharing your experience with us. It has been a joy to have you.

Jennifer Roach [00:39:53]:
Thank you very much for having me.