The Artsy Dudes Podcast
Embracing the Joys of Hyper-Femininity: Art, Identity, and the Power in Vulnerability with Alice Asphyxia
Ever wondered how cute culture intertwines with femininity in the world of art? Join us as we sit down with Alice Asphyxia , a hyper-feminine artist who has turned her passion for feminine fashion and decor into a multifaceted art form. Alice takes us through her many changes in life to finally embracing a hyper-feminine identity. Influenced by her experiences this lead to her commitment to creating joyful, inspiring environments she refers to as "dopamine decor." This conversation invites you into Alice's enchanting world of pink and plush, where every corner of her home and art studio embodies her distinctive hyper-feminine style.
She opens our eyes to the unique blend of strength and vulnerability that comes with expressing your hyper-femininity. Alice shares personal stories about hosting a hyper-feminine booth at a comic expo, creating a protective bubble that celebrates femininity while deterring unwelcome attention. We also delve into societal expectations and power dynamics, discussing how traditionally feminine crafts like sewing and embroidery are often undervalued in the fine arts. We also touch on the darker aspects of femininity, such as objectification and infantilization, however her brilliance in her craft to reclaim her power shows when she shares her vision for a toy line featuring relatable and true female characters.
We also touch on the supportive and inclusive nature of the burlesque community in Calgary, which parallels other creative outlets like open mic nights, Cosplay competitions and queer events. Alice's journey through burlesque has not only enhanced her confidence but also inspired her artistic expression. We explore the emotional impact of colors and the empowerment found in performative gender expression, offering keen insights into the complex relationship between personal identity and art. Don't miss this deep dive into the enchanting, challenging, and ultimately inspiring world of hyper-feminine artistry with Alice Asphyxia .
Ever wondered how cute culture intertwines with femininity in the world of art? Join us as we sit down with Alice Asphyxia , a hyper-feminine artist who has turned her passion for feminine fashion and decor into a multifaceted art form. Alice takes us through her many changes in life to finally embracing a hyper-feminine identity. Influenced by her experiences this lead to her commitment to creating joyful, inspiring environments she refers to as "dopamine decor." This conversation invites you into Alice's enchanting world of pink and plush, where every corner of her home and art studio embodies her distinctive hyper-feminine style.
She opens our eyes to the unique blend of strength and vulnerability that comes with expressing your hyper-femininity. Alice shares personal stories about hosting a hyper-feminine booth at a comic expo, creating a protective bubble that celebrates femininity while deterring unwelcome attention. We also delve into societal expectations and power dynamics, discussing how traditionally feminine crafts like sewing and embroidery are often undervalued in the fine arts. We also touch on the darker aspects of femininity, such as objectification and infantilization, however her brilliance in her craft to reclaim her power shows when she shares her vision for a toy line featuring relatable and true female characters.
We also touch on the supportive and inclusive nature of the burlesque community in Calgary, which parallels other creative outlets like open mic nights, Cosplay competitions and queer events. Alice's journey through burlesque has not only enhanced her confidence but also inspired her artistic expression. We explore the emotional impact of colors and the empowerment found in performative gender expression, offering keen insights into the complex relationship between personal identity and art. Don't miss this deep dive into the enchanting, challenging, and ultimately inspiring world of hyper-feminine artistry with Alice Asphyxia .
Transcription by ESO. Translation by I'm going to go get some food. Hello everyone in YouTube and podcast land. Welcome to the Artsy Dudes. I am Ryan and our guest host is Casey. Welcome, casey.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm Casey Williams. I'm a local independent filmmaker, writer and behind closed doors secret femme. And behind closed doors secret femme. Today, we are so honored to be able to sit down and hang out with Alice Xfixia, a local hyper-feminine artist.
Speaker 1:And she's brought us into her amazing home. We're in another dimension of cuteness and hyper-femininity. And if you'd just like to tell us a bit about yourself, and your art and, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3:So my investigation into cute and hyper femininity came about because I'm obviously a participant in that aesthetic, Like I enjoy the aesthetic of the fashion and um decor and all that and that kind of what led me to reflect on why I was interested in that and why are other people interested in that and why is it popular and trending and like, um, what, what does that say about people and society right now? So that's kind of where that all started was, yeah, with some serious reflection on that topic, which led me to do a lot of research during my degree about, uh, acute culture, um, and its relationship to the feminine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Was it um more of a gradual thing, or was there a spark moment for you that kind of led you on this path?
Speaker 3:or I think, um, it came about like really naturally, cause everything I was doing creatively like had that already being brought in, those elements being brought into it, um, and so I was like I need to like think about why I'm making these choices in my work and what about it interests me? Um, because I I do like conceptual work, because I do like conceptual work, so I like to, you know, think about that in my process of what I'm making.
Speaker 1:What mediums do you usually deal with? Is it mostly painting, sculpture? A bit of both, everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, super multimedia I do. Lately I've been doing a lot of oil painting. I actually just picked up oil painting a year ago, so I was doing acrylic painting for years, switched to oils because I figured you know it's well, I think it's superior to acrylic paint anyway, but it's helping me achieve the look that I want. With the blending and stuff. Like a lot of my paintings people ask if it's airbrushed, but it's not. They're oil painted and they're just blended very, very softly.
Speaker 3:I was kind of trying to achieve this blurry effect sometimes, um, and yeah, so I do. I do a lot of painting but I also like um, mix multimedia into it with like different materials that I think evoke a sense of like femininity, like lace, ribbons and stuff like that. And then I do sculpture as well with like needle felting and I've been getting into like installation and yeah, I'm just kind of dabbling in a lot of other areas like, but those are kind of like where I put most of my energy into yeah, it is very dreamlike, it's like so soft, it's just, you know, just very, it's like cotton candy, yeah, just very at ease.
Speaker 1:I guess like what inspired you to take the full tilt into, like you know, living the life with your apartment and does like I guess I'm just fascinated being in here. It's over stimulating but it's so calming as well, like I mean, I'm sure you started with the arts and then you just did it gradually, just happen with your living space um, it didn't even start with the art.
Speaker 3:It started like when I was a teenager. I bought like a pink skirt. I had like a phase where I was very tomboy and like I had a faux hawk and stuff. I didn't wear makeup, I wore baggy clothes. And then I like kind of had this guilty moment of buying this pink frilly skirt and I didn't wear it for years but I had it and you know, and I just felt like I was like I don't know.
Speaker 3:I like slowly kind of got in touch with my feminine side. I like got into burlesque and working in an industry that's really sexualized, so it kind of led me to be like well, I should probably learn how to do my makeup, I should probably learn how to do something with my hair. And then I kind of found my feminine side more and then started really enjoying it. And then it just got to this very extreme point, which is like what I call hyper femininity. It's like on the very extreme end of the spectrum.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it started with clothing and like toys. I would say Like I have like this, like peanut rabbit somewhere in here. That's like it was made at an art market, some local artist. I wish I knew what her name was. But she made these like rabbits that look like peanuts, that are like dead Anyways, it's like with pink faux fur and stuff and something about it. I really liked it and I bought one and then you know, I think those are like yeah, but the skirt and the peanut rabbit or just like kind of where it started. I just snowballed from there and started to grow more and I, you know, when I had my own place, like I remember having a boyfriend and being like is it OK if I buy this pink shelf?
Speaker 3:Like you don't mind, right, and it just you know, and it just was started with one item and then it just kept growing and I just leaned into it more and more because I really enjoyed it. And then it just kept growing and I just leaned into it more and more because I really enjoyed it. And I kind of recently heard about people talking about like dopamine decor and I was like, oh well, I've been doing that for years because I really think having my environment like this helps me feel more like happy and like ready to take on the day. Like I kind of designed my life to be more, um, to make me feel better, because like I struggled a lot with like mental health and stuff. So like this was like a way for me to help, um, deliberately change my life Um and, yeah, just make me feel better on a day-to-day basis when I wake up.
Speaker 1:Well, I think when I was looking up the color pink, um, I read that they like used it in some institutions or even prisons just to like for mood levels and stuff like that, and just you know what it symbolizes. I guess you know purity and uh. But yeah, you were, you were talking earlier or before this. When you get home at night, you like to get hyper feminine yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% true, and I think that's so interesting that you also had like the tomboy era. I'm still stuck in mine very clearly, and the pink suit, that's where mine really kind of kicked off and I started leaning into it. I was like, oh, I love this. I mean, it's a man's suit, man's cut. But I never really felt comfortable being like I'm going to put this on and leave the house today. But how I present myself to the world is very aggressive and tough and I kind of use the tomboy image as a sense of armor. But when I get home behind closed doors, like that's when the femininity kicks in and I have, you know, the plush robes and I paint my nails and I have little tea rituals and there's something so inherently important and impactful about leaning into your femininity when all that you are able to showcase to the world is the fact that you're not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's interesting to me, the association with femininity being like weak and powerless and you know, like eroticizing that and aestheticizing this like powerlessness and like frivolity and like the cute and feminine like just is people just don't take it seriously, right? And that's what kind of led me to want to investigate it more is I'm like I think there's room for serious exploration here conceptually, there's something going on why people are interested in this and I can get more into that. But what was I just going to say? Oh yeah, so with femininity in terms of like power, like I think when you take it to this like really extreme end, you're almost taking something that's so soft, it becomes hard again because I don't know what you guys think. But when you see a girl like me, decked out and like you know, in public, like very frilly, super colorful, like the other girls that I know that do this kind of stuff, like you're gonna have freaking balls to like go in public like that like you're, you're presenting yourself as this very soft, um, like sweet, like um person, but like you gotta like kind of have tough skin because everybody's judging you like crazy and commenting on your appearance.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of interesting to me how it yeah, it takes that softness and like on the extreme end becomes, yeah, hard again and I think in a way that actually repels like other people like that, like it's not for the male gaze at that point because they actually find it like too intense. So like um, for example, I had this booth at the comic expo recently and the booth is decorated like this, where it's got like the glitter, you know curtains and like it's all very pink and sparkly, and I found it really interesting because we were in a public space where we had this little girly bubble the amount of people men specifically that would kind of walk by and they kind of looked like they wanted to come talk to us, to hit on us or whatever, or whatever creepy thing was going on their mind, but they didn't have the confidence to enter our bubble because it was so girly. They were like, well, I don't want to seem gay if I go in there. So it kind of ended up being this like protective space in an interesting way. Yeah, Very cool.
Speaker 2:And especially like, given the fact you were at Comic-Con, which you know that kind of realm of individuals has historically been very gatekeepy on. You know, like hyper-femininity doesn't really have a place but here, like, let's watch all this cute anime and we all have Hello Kitty and Sanrio and all of that, but it's you know up to them as to when it kind of has a place in it. So I find, and I can only assume that in your position, that there would kind of be like an undertone of this isn't your place and you don't belong, and almost like being offended.
Speaker 3:Maybe some people.
Speaker 2:yeah, I could see that because it's you know, it's not Marvel, captain America, and you know, obviously, like in terms of comics, there are really sexualized women displayed in the artwork and stuff, but a lot of it is, I guess, portrayed by men and so, like, taking something like this is like hyper femininity, I feel like, is by women, for women for the most part, and enjoyed by other women and celebrated by other women, and it's less for less for men yeah, I was so eager and so excited to be able to just sit down and get to know you just because, from you know, in your website bio you say that our environment and the way that we're raised really shows how we kind of develop and process that femininity to the world and, and so, while I go around looking all tough with all my tattoos and my short hair and, you know, holding myself in a certain way, I think that it's so much more powerful, as you were saying to you know, be able to go out hyper-feminine just because, like thinking of past situations that I've been in.
Speaker 2:Because, thinking of past situations that I've been in, if I look a certain way, I'm not a part of the male gaze and I don't seem as much of a target when being able to be that vulnerable, being able to be that in touch with your femininity, seems like it would just make yourself more vulnerable. But when you're expressively going out there and being like this is me and this is who I am, that's like a level of strength that I wish that I had within myself.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of guys probably were intimidated too.
Speaker 3:Totally.
Speaker 1:I mean not so much, just that it's a feminine bubble, just like oh, she looks so amazing and everything looks so amazing. Like it's just too much for me, like it's.
Speaker 3:I've literally had men run out of this apartment no for real.
Speaker 3:I'm not even kidding because they're just like you know. Like you know say, like years ago I went on a tinder date and had somebody come in here and he was just like sitting on the couch and looking around and was just like I gotta somewhere to be and, like you know, like I was just like sitting on the couch and looking around and was just like I got somewhere to be and, like you know, I was just like this guy like literally ran. Like when he first met me, I think I was wearing a black dress, so he didn't see this side of me yet. So I actually deliberately try to. I like it when people their first impression is like this. So because then they're not, because I'm like I need judgment, get it in now. Like you know, like let's just rip this bandaid off, but like this guy wasn't expecting this and he just like yeah, fled the scene Like he was afraid.
Speaker 3:But I also understand where you might not go on a first date dressed like this specifically Well, now I Not that I'm dating, but I think it's better that way, because I'm like well, you might as well see what the whole thing's all about now, and if it's too much for you and it scares you, then you're not True.
Speaker 1:black is the total opposite of all of this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wearing a form-fitting black dress is a very different presentation than what I'm doing right now. So, yeah, it gives people a different message.
Speaker 1:I would have liked to have seen that on video, this guy run out. But yeah, getting back to your art, I guess just art in general, like you know, what did you start doing, like, when did art just happen for you as a child, or when you got older, and what were your first dabblings in art?
Speaker 3:um, my first dabbling. Like I've been interested in so many different areas of art, like dance and music and yeah, but um, what got me into the visual arts is because you didn't need lessons to have like a pencil and a paper and to explore that as a child. So, you know, I had I just if I was left to my own devices, which I was a lot as a child. Um, that, you know, I just if I was left to my own devices, which I was a lot as a child. That was just something that was accessible. So that's kind of what led me in that direction, even though later on I did like get into, like other art forms, but like I kind of always just had this like love for visual arts, I think that ended up taking precedence, like over all the other art forms.
Speaker 3:It's hard to choose, though though, yeah yeah, true, and I'd love to learn new crafts and skills all the time, but yeah, there's not enough time in the day.
Speaker 1:I guess I kind of wanted to get into. You did discuss the kind of darker aspects of all this in a weird way and yeah, you mentioned it earlier even stuff stuff with, uh, I mean the trap, the felt trap and you know how it is this cuteness, but there also is like kind of a darkness aspect to it. Um, yeah, if you want to touch on that a bit, uh, even elaborate, I guess, yeah, um, yeah.
Speaker 3:So uh, I might ramble a bit oh, it's a rabbit hole.
Speaker 3:So two things, I guess. One comes from my personal experience as a woman and being sexualized and objectified, and then the other thing in my work is the cute and feminine have a lot in common. They're very parallel, in fact. What we consider to be cute is feminine and what we consider to be feminine is cute. And cute is different than pretty, like or beautiful. Those are different aesthetic categories in my opinion, because the cute doesn't even have to be attractive. The cute can actually be ugly. It has more in common with the grotesque, because we pity things that are pathetic or injured or weak, and so things that are cute don't actually have to be attractive in any way. Like an old man or grandma that's got a cane, you're like oh, they're so cute and small and helpless. That's not because we find them fuckable, that's not where that comes from, right.
Speaker 1:Depending on what you're into. I mean, depending on what you're into.
Speaker 3:But it doesn't have to be that way. It can be sexualized and I think it is especially in terms of. I'm very interested in this power dynamic with the cute because, on the one hand, it's appealing to people because it's really easy to dominate it. It seems because it's inherently easy to dominate it. It seems because it's inherently like helpless and weak. I think people feel like they have a sense of control and power over things that are cute, but then also, at the same time, if you're displaying like cute behavior on purpose, like and you're aware of it like that can be very manipulative. So like if I'm, for example, being like oh, I can't open this jar because I'm just a weak girl, and then somebody comes over and does it for me, I'm like thanks, you know. Like I don't have to lift a finger right, like you know, just as, like a small example, but like of how the cute can be very manipulative. And then in that case, where does the power lie in that dynamic?
Speaker 1:That's a very good point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because.
Speaker 1:I imagine it attracts kind of that domineering type of masculine attitude like oh, I'm saving the helpless cute.
Speaker 3:It can right Like um.
Speaker 1:But yeah, with that comes power too. No sorry, go ahead. It was just very interesting.
Speaker 3:I guess we were talking about the dark side of my work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I was like I know I'm going to ramble down this rabbit hole and then forget what we're talking about. Um, so I'm kind of so, on the one hand, I'm interested in this like kind of, yeah, the violence and sexuality that I think come um with exploring this subject, um, and like, because, uh, like the feminine and cute being, um, like that kind of uh, despondence and helplessness and helplessness about it that people find appealing. So, for whatever reason, like things that are very like cute and feminine are appealing for people, but why? So I guess, yeah, part of that is that it is like, I guess that subjugation and just being, yeah, like more helpless and then making people feel like they have some power, and so I guess, in my work to like to try and answer that I'm there's a lot of ambiguity I feel like that I'm trying to express, because I feel, on the one hand, you know, I really want to celebrate femininity and I think it's really powerful and and and stuff, but on the other hand, I kind of see the problematic side of it and you know, like perpetuating these, these ideas of being feminine, being like helpless and weak and frivolous and naive and um, um, and also like infantilization, um, is a big part of that, like youthfulness and like the way that women are, um, feel more invisible as they age because, like, society wants women to be like young in order to be desirable, and then so, at the core of that is, I think, at the core of wanting to be cute, for women is to feel valued and lovable, and that's what society has told us in order that we want to be shaped that way in order to be considered valuable.
Speaker 3:And that's just a sad part of something that women have to deal with coming to terms with, um, yeah, what makes them feel feel worthy. But like we, you know it comes, it comes to us like we have no choice, we're like forced into this environment. That makes it seem like, yeah, being being attractive is a strength, being cute as a is a strength, and like that's what makes you good as a woman. But then so, on the one hand, there's that which I think people feel frustrated about, and then the objectification, really sexualizing women. But then, yeah, on the other hand, the celebration and kind of wanting to take that back and being like, well, I'm going to, you know, like it almost feels like you can't win either way.
Speaker 3:You know, like they you guys probably watched the Barbie movie, and there's that speech at the end where I'm like I'm like this is exactly what I'm talking about. It's like, no matter what I do, you can't win. You're still doing it wrong, and it's just and I find that very frustrating. So I'm both celebrating as well as kind of critiquing these things, and I'm so I'm trying to find this um, this um, this fence and like this double-edged sword, and trying to find a way to depict that in my artwork and explore that in my artwork, because, yeah, I think there's a lot of um, there is a lot of darkness and and frustration and but as well as joy and pleasure and celebration.
Speaker 2:I think that you have managed to find that perfect mix with such expertise. Thank you. When I look at your artwork, I just think of cute aggression personified through personal experience.
Speaker 2:And I love the subversive themes in how you create your art, like your oil paintings, and the softness and you look at it and at just a passing glance you're like, oh, that's just cute and dainty and you get into it. Or just misery and pain that's brought out once you actually take a moment to sit and look at the context of these beautiful, well-done works of art and the felted bear trap To have something that's historically just so aggressive, like it's only meant to cause pain, but to have it worked through with these soft textiles. Something about it just spurs the secret femme in me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Thank you, yeah, I liked how that one turned out and you're right, you totally hit the nail. Like I want the work to be very appealing and alluring and like those undertones to sneak up a little bit and not be so overt. So I think that makes them more approachable and digestible by being so soft and um and appealing and like using materials, like you know, like glitter and stuff that people just find like, yeah, like fun and pretty and and whatever, um, and then yeah, and then, but then, upon like closer inspection, kind of questioning more about, like, what's actually going on in this situation here. Yeah, like the bear trap is, um, I intended it to, yeah, be very alluring and I thought, you know, like um, in a way it's trapping you, um, but not the way that the trap is expected to work by, like you know, closing in on you and capturing you, but instead by being appealing and drawing you in. That's how the trap is working. Is kind of the idea that I had with that.
Speaker 2:And I love the fact that, even though you have such hyper-feminine artwork and you have those dark undertones, you don't see it too frequently where artistic expression doesn't shy away from the reality. Like there's a lot that women are expected to do and how to act and present themselves, but underneath it all, we all struggle with the same sort of things. Like I can look this way and I still get the male gaze. I still get groped when I'm out and, you know, hit on and like don't Look at me, man. Like you must be very comfortable in yourself. But to be able to be hyper feminine to the public eye as well as have that be such a heavy focal point in your art is refreshing. And as someone who struggles with how to present themselves in their femininity unless it's behind closed doors, like in your beautiful, beautiful apartment, and have that be the sanctuary where you feel safe to express that, I think that's just so huge and I'm going to be following you for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 3:Thank you, it's a journey You'll see where it goes.
Speaker 2:You started with a pink skirt.
Speaker 3:I'm starting with a pink suit. Yeah right, I'll be a cute girl. I have a pink suit too, do you? Yeah, I'll show you sometime.
Speaker 2:We'll hit the town one night, okay.
Speaker 1:I just can't believe how yeah, it's been an eye-opener just on, like it touches all again. That's like the darkness, the cuteness, and I love the whole fact of like owning it and basically throwing it back in everyone's face. I mean, I think you discussed this before when we first talked Just like digging behind it all, like you know, how did pink and how did all these so-called feminine objects and aesthetics become related to women somehow? Like if you dig behind the history of everything, like I don't know if you could speak to that at all like why did some things really become so assigned to just, I guess, feminine art per se, or I guess, like in terms of the color pink, like um, that was marketing, um, and depending on what culture you look at, it's not even necessarily feminine.
Speaker 3:it is, I would say, now, but historically it wasn't like, for example, in in j, historically the pink represented the cherry blossoms, which were the fallen samurai, so it was actually very masculine. But I think probably marketing of products especially targeted at women is kind of where that started.
Speaker 1:Sorry, repeat your question. Oh, I guess I was just wondering me, like you know, digging behind it all, like you know, just the you know, why are some things considered feminine? And you know, um, I guess it wasn't really a question, but yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, I think also some things that are like associated with being feminine, like, for example, like craft in the arts is like more associated with women's work, like which is funny because you know it's still art, but like we call it craft and then you know so like some things like sewing or or embroidery are considered to be feminine, um, and I think it's interesting that craft is also taken less seriously in the fine arts. So there's this, these, this correlation between things that are kind of like feminine being taken less seriously than other things that I guess are more like masculine dominant. It's a big question. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of different points you could talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a pretty general kind of question.
Speaker 1:But I guess the other thing I was wondering about in your art specifically is you know, besides the colors that are reoccurring and certain things like, is there any, I guess, characters or type of animals that just have a certain meaning to you, that you use in your art? You know, just I guess, do you have any characters in your art that are just personal, where you know it might be a specific character to you or someone you're thinking of, yourself, obviously, but um, in terms of that, I actually am working on my own character designs because I want to get into like having a toy line okay, and stuff um, but in terms of like, um, pre-existing characters, I like using hello kitty because she's such an icon.
Speaker 3:Obviously there's problems with licensing and things, but I'm trying to look at it in a critical way of being like she's this really powerful symbol and I think people know they feel like it's a girly thing, right. So it's kind of like a symbol of girl culture and cute culture and that's why I kind of like to use, because people would ask me they'd be like why do you keep throwing hello kitty into your paintings or whatever? And I'm like well, I want to, because everybody knows hello kitty and they know what that symbolizes and that's like she's like the epitome of cute culture. She's like this, this feminine girl culture symbol. Um, and I can, so I can talk actually pretty in depth about hello kitty, because I did. I ended up going down a rabbit hole of research about that. Um, it's really interesting. But, uh, yeah, where was I going with this?
Speaker 3:you're asking about characters just like yeah, reoccurring characters in your art, I guess, uh, elaborate on the toy line if, if, if you don't want to give anything away, um, yeah, it's just like something that's in kind of in the brainstorming phase right now, but I'd really like to either hand make them or produce toys, but have it be my own character that's kind of like a girl in the shape of a toy, like a doll, and then have it be a character that's relatable for girls. Today is kind of the angle I'm going, because I want to explore a lot of different avenues and that's one of them.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess it does reach the gamut. Yeah, you could go darkness, cuteness, kids, adults, everywhere. Actually, one thing you were talking about earlier is just you know how this aesthetic kind of gives people the feeling of, you know, youthfulness, do you find, even like a lot of people who are like older adults kind of get into it because they just it makes them feel more alive and youthful at all.
Speaker 3:I think, yes, I think that the appeal of youthful products which are actually enjoyed a lot by adults, so like Sanrio, for example, products or I think the demographic is mostly from like 18 to 40.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, like female customers is mostly like from like 18 to 40. It's like female customers. It's like the biggest demographic, and I think there's something to be said about enjoying things that are childlike, because, on the one hand, that's when we experience, like for most people, like a lot of joy, lack of responsibility, like, for most people, like a lot of joy, lack of responsibility no-transcript. I think that's like a really large part of that, that like, yeah, life is just so stressful and hard and sad and all these things that, like, people just take a lot of joy in. Like this really frivolous, cute object that just makes you feel good, and I think it's like a distraction from like a lot of the problems in the world.
Speaker 3:Like, and I think that there's something to be said about the popularity of cute culture, um, products, in the sense that, like, is there? There's all this fucked up shit going on in the world and people just want to look at, look away from it and look at something that makes them feel good and something that is so frivolous and and and stuff that like like. What does that say, though, about? About how people are feeling, like how society is feeling if there's like, if it's so, so popular right now. I feel like the popularity is just increasing lately. Like I don't know about you guys, like I'm biased, so I'm like looking at it more, but I just feel like like the popularity is like huge right now.
Speaker 1:No, I've thought about that quite a bit and even like, in a you know more generalized way, like our parents or grandparents, they never like, collected anything or, like you know, dabbled in any type of, I guess, cuteness or you know oh sure they did. My grandma collected tons of trinkets you know, like when you go to like an antique mall, like it's just.
Speaker 3:They just look different than the products we have now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually that's a good point, you know like little small ceramic.
Speaker 3:I don't know what are those things for?
Speaker 1:so yeah, or whatever yeah like, just like um I guess I never really associated it because I'm yeah, I guess they did collect a lot of trinkets, especially grandmothers, yeah, so so I think there were trinkets.
Speaker 3:Just the trinkets look different now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:When we go shopping and see the products that are available.
Speaker 1:And their trinkets weren't at stuff at Comic-Cons or events like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of wonder if right now having that uprising in that 18 to 40 sort of demographic is kind of like a snapshot of where we are in modern time and the fact that so many of us really lean into the Spice Girls coming in and bringing the Riot Grrrl movement into modern households and making girl power just be really palatable and consumable. And everybody got on board and after that brief two and a half year era it was okay to be feminine, it was okay to have girlier toys and wear more pink and still play sports. You were able to explore that a little bit more frequently versus. You know I've held these conversations with my sister who grew up in the early 80s and you know hers was very much like you had to be dainty and sweet or you were just unappealing. Where that whole era of you know, the early 90s Riot Grrrl movement, the Spice Girls bringing it in and being such like a powerhouse in society, opening that door to just make cute things cool, where they didn't really have that historically.
Speaker 1:I guess, yeah, the Spice Girls, I mean, yeah, I think of them. It's like what was there five of them Like sporty, scary, like it was all like different types of a girl, any kind you can be, I guess.
Speaker 2:But it was still like every identity was still heavily formulated in these stereotypes that they tried to shake up through their marketing essentially, and I feel a lot of that has still remained as such like a staple today and why, you know, the hyper feminine parts of society are like so in your face as opposed to, you know, trying to stay hidden and, like I do, keep behind closed doors opposed to, you know, trying to stay hidden and, like I do keep behind closed doors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's great that to express it. But also I think it's important to notice that it's also being like taking something that's like girl power and repackaging it as a product for us to buy. So I think about that as well and I think a lot of people aren't really aware of that. Like we're also being manipulated at the same time as consumers. So, yeah, I think there's two sides to it, because, yeah, I think it's great and, like Legally Blonde, for example, great movie, because it's taking somebody that's like totally girly bimbo but being like but she's smart and capable and like. So I'm like this is what I'm talking about. Yeah, okay, like you know, like that movie is like a great example of like, kind of like part of my work and but yeah, I think also like companies are like aware that it sells and so they're also taking advantage of that and then selling it back to us they're also taking advantage of that and then selling it back to us.
Speaker 3:Oh, 100%, and you see that in any off-the-cuff sort of subdivision, like having banks sponsor pride events.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Anything that people are drawn to as a source of comfort has now just become something to raise capital as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's just good to be aware at the same time, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's deeper meanings behind everything.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah.
Speaker 4:Hi Ryan hey Tay. So have you ever considered doing a residency in an art studio?
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 4:Excellent. There's a place I want to tell you about. It's called Sparrow Art Space. It's located in Bridgeland, here in the lovely Calgary, and they do a monthly artist in residency. Every month it changes. Go to their website, you can sign up and if you ever want to show your art, whatever forms of art it is, check them out. Would you be interested? Absolutely, perfect, excellent. The great thing about Sparrow is that I love their motto. It's creativity, community and collaboration, kind of like what we do. We're all on the same page here. So if you want to be an artist in residency and you want to showcase your artwork, check out Sparrow Artspace. You can check them out at sparrowartspacecom and hopefully one day we'll see your work there.
Speaker 1:And we're back with the artsy dudes. I guess now I want to discuss you know more of pop culture and what you've really grabbed from it, whether it's films or you know paintings, any kind of art and pop culture like or are there some specific things that really stood out, that have stayed with you for a long time?
Speaker 3:Um, well, my hero growing up was Sailor Moon. I think, uh, I think a lot of women can, um, relate to that. I mean, uh, she's totally like a feminist icon because she's one of like, you know, a hero, like somebody that's powerful, but also like a normal girl. That's relatable. So I think a lot of girls growing up just loved her and I identified with that, because, you know, she's clumsy and like, cries a lot and a lot of very like human things, but also, you know, at the end of the day, saves the day and is a powerful girl still.
Speaker 2:I thought it was really cool growing up and being young and being able to see this girl gang that was all powerful on their own, had Tuxedo Mask come in but was such a side player. Sailor Jupiter was my personal favorite.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I love those tough girls, but she's so feminine though that's part of her character, it's true.
Speaker 2:It's true, yeah, yeah. With that being said, like you took inspiration from Legally Blonde, and I think that there's something so immense about that era of film, particularly, which I'm a big dork on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess you would know yeah.
Speaker 2:So we had that era of Legally Blonde and Mean Girls and all of these brilliantly oversaturated pink, delicate films showing the different strengths of femininity strengths of femininity. Is there anything, aside from the main staple points and Sailor Moon, while you were growing up and being young, that you saw these strong women being portrayed that way instead of these cute, delicate characters that needed saving, and did that influence how you kind of went through your formative teen years? Did that influence how you kind of went?
Speaker 3:through your formative teen years. Hmm, I think in my teen years I kind of like I think like most like angsty teens I rebelled and like wanted to, like I was like I don't like any of that stuff and like I started wearing like a lot of black and it's like you know, like wanted to be tough and stuff. And then it kind of kind of kind of back around later where, when I got like back in touch with you know the things that brought me joy growing up and and my feminine side and and stuff like that nice.
Speaker 2:So were you a little pop punker too, going to warp tour.
Speaker 3:I was like I never went to warp tour. I was a little punk rocker though and yeah, going to local shows and stuff, and you know trying to be bad, but it's such an illusion.
Speaker 2:Um, when you had said earlier that you really started to embrace your femininity getting into burlesque, what was that journey like for you? Did you, you know, start off by going to see burlesque, or was it something that you were just immediately drawn to? You had said that before. You were always interested in, you know, like dance and other forms of expression. I'm just wondering how you got your start in there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny, I'd never seen burlesque. I went with a friend to a show and at the time I saw this girl trying to do a show basically all by herself. She only had two other dancers and I was. I think the first thing I said to her um, that started our friendship was I think it looks like you need help, um, and I had no experience dancing, but I I found that like using your sexuality, um and looks was a way to like get on stage and like get experience dancing and stuff without having any of the training.
Speaker 3:Essentially that like I was able. That was like the doorway into it. And then my my learning experience with performance art and burlesque and like wanting to be a better dancer and performer and um, as another creative outlet. But yeah, that's what kind of um. I think what started me really like getting more into like makeup, because you know you'd want to wear like big eyelashes on stage and stage makeup and and stuff and sparkly outfits so that you know that catches lots of attention from the lights and um, and burlesque is obviously super like, yeah, like um feminine sexuality and you know there's all different body types and and stuff. Um, it's very creative the way people use it. So, yeah, I think that kind of was what helped me transition into being more comfortable with my feminine side and then being like, well, if I want to be girly, why don't I just be that way instead of being afraid to? I think, maybe at a younger age.
Speaker 2:I think that's super interesting that you know to break you out of the shell of having that hardened exterior was such an intrinsic part of being a female, by seeing somebody and being like you need help and we're in this together yeah, and it totally was like um, yeah, that like um, what are they?
Speaker 3:what do you call it? That like bond between girls, like the, the sisterhood, that's the word I was looking for. Yeah, that's like a part of that. That is really enjoyable 100%.
Speaker 2:It's like a very female dominated safe space to just kind of explore yourself in that as well. I've done some live event videography for burlesque shows and I've got a few friends that are performers and it's always just so inspirational to me to be like I don't know how you can get up there, be so vulnerable and be able to move your body like that when I can't move my hips, my entire body with it.
Speaker 3:I think the subculture is really inviting also to amateurs is one of the strengths about it, because a lot of people get into burlesque that like don't know anything about dance or performance and like they're not maybe that good, but like the the community is very like being like you're doing a great job and like you know it's, it's a. It's not like going to the strip club right like the audience is totally, totally different, um, where, but yeah, it is actually like encouraging people to like have a space to like explore that and like be encouraged to, without being like um, overly judged or um yeah, like put down about, like their body or like their dancing skill or whatever.
Speaker 3:Like that's almost part of the charm about it, the subculture, is this amateur aspect to it yeah, and I think that there is not to say there isn't like really great burlesque dancers that are professionals and travel and stuff, but like in local scenes, like I feel like, yeah, it's a really safe space for amateurs to like get into performance art and explore their sexuality and stuff yeah, I think there's such a demand for young women to have those spaces to be creative and not be worried about you know what's the backlash going to be?
Speaker 2:yeah, when I was growing up, I hosted open mics in a little coffee shop and it was very much the same. We had a lot of male talent that would come through and it doesn't matter if you picked up a guitar the week before. You could get up there and everybody would cheer for you because you're doing something so brave and vulnerable. And that coffee shop closed down and I think a lot of us are still out there trying to figure out Was it the house? It was the house, I knew it.
Speaker 3:I used to go Sweet we probably know each other.
Speaker 2:I probably saw you at some point, absolutely Small world.
Speaker 1:As well as being supportive, the thing I always liked about burlesque is it's all body types, it's not just this specific model type, because, let's be honest, people like all different people in different shapes and sizes and yeah, it must be. It's really supportive because, yeah, some people like someone who's bigger, somebody likes someone who's skinny, and it's just. I love how the confidence they have getting up there and just doing it like it must just feel liberating too, like I don't care, like you know, sometimes when I've gone to a beach and you don't want to take off your shirt because you're like, oh, I'm too fat. But that's that feeling of like who gives a shit?
Speaker 1:yeah, there's a there's an aspect of it about loving yourself and embracing that yeah and uh and yeah the support in the community for that um, one thing, I guess, getting back to the pop culture and movies stuff, one thing that really stood out in my mind when I first visited your home was just this movie that really, I mean it kind of woke me up to, you know, the feminine aspect when I was a teenage boy, not knowing much about it, and also just you know, good films and the fact that a film can be artsy, and that was kind of my whole doorway to it was the Virgin Suicide.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And just kind of, when I walked in here and I saw like the clouds I mean, in that painting, and you know just the cuteness of it all, it really reminded me of that film and, yeah, if that makes sense or maybe it doesn't, it does yeah, I haven't seen that film in years, but I do know what you're talking about. Yeah, is there any uh films that uh really drive it home to you, I guess?
Speaker 2:There is this one German film that was made in 2002 called Big Girls Don't Cry, and it's about two teenage girls finding one of their dads having an affair and they go and vengefully seek out to harm the woman he's having an affair with by going after her daughter and leading her into sex trafficking. And to have something so visceral and dark be portrayed by, you know, young teenage girls was something that was just so shocking but impactful. It's worth a watch.
Speaker 3:Yeah, interesting Check it out. I should check that out.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, any music that stands out to you, that really influenced you.
Speaker 3:So when I was younger, I didn't get a lot of music or pop culture exposure actually in the family that I had Like to some degree. Yeah, like I watched a lot, like I was watching cartoons and stuff, but like we didn't have a lot of music in the household for whatever reason. So I um actually got into music by going to the library. You know, like that movie um Matilda, where she goes to the library and spends that was me actually, but I was doing it with like also with like cds and just sitting there and listening.
Speaker 3:And that's how I discovered punk and I got really into punk at a young age and actually I thought that like I kind of feel like this, like you know, like like what I'm wearing now is like more punk rock than like the what I thought you were supposed to wear as punk rock when I was a teenager, trying to be friends with other kids, that I was like you like punk, I like punk, you know, like um, but uh, yeah, so I got interested in punk, which obviously led to like bands like Bikini Kill and, you know, like Pussy Riot and stuff like that. So there is definitely like, yeah, that like Riot, grrrl, yeah, female punk bands that are very like. I mean, how would you describe it In your face? Yeah, like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Aggressive femininity, like taking up your space in such a prevalently male dominated area of music. Like it's not singer, songwriter, you know, every female seemed to only have a place in music at that time if they were, you know, jewel-esque uh.
Speaker 1:I was thinking of Jewel, yeah.
Speaker 2:You have like this wild movement that started off like in the 90s and completely, you know, skyrocketed my favorite band is Paramore and Hayley Williams being like this 5'2" like absolute tornado of passion and talent, and you know constantly being at grips, grips. You know going out on the road and doing, you know warp to and everything. And you know you're the first show that I saw. I was one of eight people and they were on like this little stage called the Shira girl stage, off to the side, tucked away in the corner, and then two years later they came back and were headlining the main stage and that was so inspirational to me because it was like girls can do this and they can do it right, and I also had that same library experience. That's funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like a teenage runaway and I was homeless in Vancouver and they released their third album and that morning I woke up and I ran to the library and I sat down and just it was like a safe space for me. I was like okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you could be there all day and just you know, one CD after the other. Yeah so, yeah. So I found Bjork. I love Bjork, portishead, yep.
Speaker 1:Portishead, love Portishead.
Speaker 3:Hole. I have a Hole album on Preston Pink wax and vinyl Amazing, yeah, I love me some Courtney Love. Madonna. You know, like you know, yeah, lots of stuff I discovered.
Speaker 2:Thank you, library Her last show, like at her age was in the Copacabana and there was three million people that showed up for one woman. Like, how impactful, impressive, yeah.
Speaker 3:I just saw that yesterday it was wild. Yeah, so for music, I mean I like all kinds of music, but yeah, I think like I got into punk, but I like electric. You know a lot of other stuff like electronica, like bjork, for example, and um, all kinds of shit. I played classical music oh, you did.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, at one point. Yeah, what'd you play?
Speaker 3:I played a piano viola and um tenor saxophone. Oh, I was I was like a band nerd when I was in in school but like all that got abandoned, uh, when I graduated, because when I shifted more into like, yeah, the visual arts and I just kind of, yeah, that got set aside are there?
Speaker 1:I mean, besides like films and music and stuff, is there any visual artists that, uh, have really been inspiring as well?
Speaker 3:yeah, lots. Um, where do I start? I mean like, in terms of like what I relate to my art practice. Um, there are, like right now, like I wish I could be in la right now for, uh, sebastian masuda has um an art show that has like an installation piece in it and stuff like that would be really cute or cool. He does cute culture in his work. So I think the exhibition is called Kawaii is Art or like yes, kawaii is Art.
Speaker 1:So there's like Kawaii, is that like the Japanese term for cute culture? Basically.
Speaker 3:Kawaii means it means cute, but loosely. There's a lot of other cultural implications in um in japan. But um, but yeah, uh, it does um, but uh, yeah. Where was I going with this?
Speaker 3:oh, um other visual artists story yeah, so there's a lot like I, um, like I really liked, uh, like. Mike kelly, for example, was an american artist that used like. He used like stuffed toys and like kind of um, these like abandoned objects, like he would like. They were all um like found, like thrifted, and they're like dirty and soiled but they're like stuffed animals and stuff and he would make these like big sculptures and stuff with them, and that I really identified with because I was like I go, like I like that aspect of thrifted objects is that they're already unwanted, so they're kind of like inherently a little bit sad just because of like where you've obtained it from. Um, yeah, I'm like like off the top of my head. I'm like like, no, I'm stumped. But there are lots of artists and I have a big collection of art books. There are a lot of Japanese artists that I like because they're really good at exploring the cute, because it's so prevalent over there in their culture there and their culture.
Speaker 1:How about the community in Calgary itself? Do you have much of a community, I guess, as far as your specific genre or other artists doing similar things that you, I guess, sometimes even collaborate with?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would like to have more like be part of more of like a community, like maybe find a collective or something that's like exploring some of these themes, because I think there are a lot of other artists that are interested in it or at least have taken notice of it. And I have some people that I do collaborate with, um, like my friend erica. She, she is going to do like an installation piece with me in the fall. We're doing um the sparrow residency, um, so we're gonna build something for that, and she does like jewelry and photography and she also has like a metal band, so she does like a lot of her own different art stuff. But we're gonna get together and collaborate because she's on the same page with, like the aesthetic and she she likes what I'm exploring. So, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna get together for some of that.
Speaker 3:Cat simmers I'd love to like, do like um, do like a feminine piece together, like a mural piece one day or something, because I think, like our color palette has similarities and our interests, so in interests in art. So I think there's like a potential for collaboration.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's such a talented visual artist in like the graphic novel sort of realm and tells these really impactful stories that I think, yeah, the two of you combining yeah One day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think there's a lot of artists I'd be like interested in exploring with because, like everybody brings their own thing to the table, you know, like with a band, how you have, like you produce a product that, like otherwise, could never be accomplished, um, on your own. Like it's a special mixture of everything, um that then creates this result, but like um, it's just like all the different ingredients coming together to have this like one one thing, um. So, yeah, I'm interested in doing more collaboration like in the future, because I think I just like to see what could come out of it oh, mural would be crazy cool, yeah, yeah I.
Speaker 2:I find that interesting too, like I've taken it as a big step in personal growth, instilling myself in the local independent filmmaking community, because filmmaking is so inherently collaborative. Like right now, we have a ton of people that are all combining just to work on this project, and historically I've always been very introverted in how I present my own art, and to have to let go of these pieces of you and have someone take over is so scary, but the outcome's always so worthwhile. So I'm really looking forward to your artwork is amazing, as is, and collaborations. Your artwork is amazing, as is, and collaborations. I'd love to see what a mix of people would do with how you present your artwork as well.
Speaker 3:I think so many visual artists are accustomed to doing everything solo, and I spent most of my life definitely doing everything solo, but yeah, so I think that's new territory that I want to explore more 100%.
Speaker 1:And you were recently at this year's Comic Con, or so I think that's like new territory that I want to like explore more.
Speaker 4:A hundred percent.
Speaker 3:And you're recently at this year's Comic-Con or Comic-Fest, or I think. Comic-con, comic Expo, okay, comic Expo, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you sold quite a few pieces there. And how was that for you, like were you kind of one of a kind there, or Our booth, I would say, was one of a kind.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, there were some other artists in Artist Alley that they're doing cute jewelry and stuff like that. So I did meet some other people that I was talking to them a little bit and I'm like oh yeah, I see what you're doing here.
Speaker 3:You might like to see what we're doing over here. There's some similarities, but ours was definitely one of one kind in terms of how like intense everything was. Um, but yeah, I mean super, you know hyper retail environment, you know it's its own experience, like uh, but so it's a learning curve, but it was good.
Speaker 1:It was good um was this your first year there, or or have you gone for it? For me, yeah, it was my first year doing Comic Expo.
Speaker 3:It's a pretty intense four-day thing, high traffic. I was interested to see how it would be received and taking something like prints and stuff that is different than original pieces and just seeing what the response would be like.
Speaker 1:Do you do any other markets around town or any ones you're interested in doing soon?
Speaker 3:I'm going to do the Taboo Convention in the fall, because I actually think, because of the sexuality in my work, it might be a really good environment for that, so I'm going to try that one next, which is a totally different demographic from Comic Expo. It couldn't be more different. Basically, which is a totally different demographic from Comic Expo. It couldn't be more different.
Speaker 1:Basically, I'm curious to compare how that's received and what that's like. You'll probably get less men that are shy to visit, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think it's going to be interesting. Yeah, I'm excited for that one, just to see how that goes.
Speaker 1:I've always wanted to check it out. I've never been to the Taboo Fest, but I've heard's like really cool. Yeah, it's naughty but nice sex show. Yeah, yeah, have you been. Mom don't listen. Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:It's like a wild environment and that first time that you go there's so much anticipation and nervousness surrounding like, oh my god, like it. It took me until I was like in my adult years to stop faking phone calls, like I was picking up tampons for my sister and I was like actually getting them for myself. So to walk in to that environment not knowing what you're going to expect and then having it just be like this really open community and and things to explore, and there's, you know, great people that you just meet who are just kind of interested in exploring their selves and society as a whole too. So I think that's going to be like right up your alley. I think you're going to do really well there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I hope so.
Speaker 1:I haven't gone in the last couple of years, but I think they've expanded over the years and like they have like like stage performances and like all kinds of stuff going on, so should be good yeah, no, it's just amazing how your art kind of touches like on it's like a gamut, because I don't think there's a lot of visual artists that could also break into the taboo sex show as well like uh, naughty but nice, um, but yeah, yours just explores so many themes, from the dark to the sexual, to the cute and innocent. Um, it's just kind of amazing, um, I mean does. Did it ever kind of blow your mind like when you kind of thought like, oh, I can't explore so many avenues like through what I do?
Speaker 3:um, um, I guess like um, when I started like questioning it and exploring, because I noticed all the connections between the different areas I was exploring between, like you know, pink things, feminine things, cute things, sexuality and, um, objectification, like all these different things, and like, yeah, seeing how they were connected, there was, I guess, like a moment where I was like there's like something here that I need to investigate more because I keep coming back to these things. So I want to, I want to understand why am I interested in it and and what that means.
Speaker 1:No, you can definitely go down a rabbit hole with it, like even when I was trying to do a bit of research before this. Just you know, even researching the color pink, kawaii, hyper femininity, it's just one thing leads to another all the time. Yeah, just very fascinating.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there are a lot of connections between all those things.
Speaker 2:I like the ability for that intersectionality to be not only something to produce the world, but for self-exploration. When I write, I write to understand myself better. You can slap down a story, but it's like what parts of me are on these pages. And it's much in the same, like looking at a lot of your paintings. The women in them look and seem very similar to you, and I think that that's your kind of way of putting your story down on paper.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd say it's very much self-exploration as well as like society, and I've been trying this thing where I'm simplifying the women and their faces and stuff because I want it to be more identifiable to other women as well. So I'm like the more simple that they look it can be any girl. It's kind of where I'm going with that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's very cool. You tackle a lot of really introspective and important subjects but even just having that forethought of being like I want it to be every girl, because every girl has these experiences totally and some just don't have the braveness to go and throw it into art that other people can take in and and seek within themselves where they fit within this.
Speaker 3:So I think it's relatable for like yeah, like every girl, like it's very current. I think for what I see like happening in. I think for what I see happening in society and relatable for what's going on right now.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I just love how visually stunning it is. I mean, as a guy I can't. There's a lot of things I can't relate to, obviously, but it's just been very interesting. I'm just yeah, maybe I should paint my house pink. It's just good for the mood, maybe.
Speaker 3:I suggest soft pink instead of like hot pink. That might be a little overwhelming.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, when I was like doing some research on pink. I think hot pink is a little more fiery, but yeah, soft pink is very soothing and yeah, just, I guess the mixture of red white. Well, obviously, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the pink tones as well, like your hot pink. Okay, so I said the suit was like my, formative, like I'm gonna dive into femininity here. But uh, I have this hair dye brand that I absolutely love good dye, young and they make very, very popping colors. And immediately I was like hot pink is my color and I need it. And for like years it was shaved right down hot pink, very vivid, or like the half and half split, with like orange or yellows, and trying to embrace that pink aesthetic. That makes it like, okay, like that's, you're actually a girl, aren't you? And it's like, yeah, I am, but in a way that's like you know, know, you still got the shaved head, you're still tough and seeking to embrace that within just self-expression, the way you present yourself. You can either do it to appease others or take those leaps and find what fits within yourself. And that was like a huge one for me.
Speaker 2:I ran out, otherwise my hair would have been pink today. Oh too bad, that would have been sick, but you've got it for me. I ran out, otherwise my hair would have been pink today. Oh too bad, that would have been sick, but you've got it for us. Yeah, next time you see me, I think I'll go back to my pink.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, I think, like when, like women are displaying like femininity, or even like because there's something to be said for like performative gender as well, when you're like because there's something to be said for like performative gender as well, when you're like presenting super feminine, I think it just depends on, like, how the woman regards herself, like, how like people feel about it, because it can be really empowering and depending on, like, are you doing it for you? Are you doing it for other people? You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was something that I had to try to come to terms with within myself. Like I had this point when I was 27, where I was like I'm done with looking like a teenage boy, like I want to be a pretty girl. You know I want to be soft, I want to express that part of myself, but trying everything like growing out the hair, trying to find more feminine fitting clothes. You know, going to Sephora and crying and begging them to teach me how to do makeup. No matter what I did?
Speaker 3:I walked into Sephora not knowing at all what I was doing. I'd be like please tell me what the first step is, because I'm lost, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm like I love skincare and I'm like that's, you know, tapping into my femininity in a way that doesn't feel inauthentic to myself, tapping into my femininity in a way that doesn't feel inauthentic to myself. I still struggle with trying to find that way of showing that I'm not actually this scary, butch, aggressive person and I'm actually soft and dainty and secretly very feminine. So instead now it's shave the head, diet pink. I have a little jean jacket I wear that says femme on the little button, cute.
Speaker 2:And it's just like little tidbits that don't make me feel so out of place in an aspect of society that I intrinsically belong in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, on that topic. So there's this book I read called or have read, called Pink Globalization topic um. So there's this book I read called or have read, called pink globalization, and um, they talk about how, like, um, um, it's about hello kitty, essentially, but also they talk about like all these other themes and um kind of how, like, whatever, no matter how you look like as a girl, like if you say, just have like a little hello kitty notebook you pull out, you know it's that, it's that thing, that one little thing that really you know lets you keep in touch with that like feminine cuteness and and yeah, it could be something like a little keychain or something on your back, like it doesn't have to be so overt, like some people can just have these little hints of it and be like. That makes me feel like a girl you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. I've been like trying to dive in a little bit more with you know like painting my nails and wearing more jewelry and trying to find something that isn't so over the top.
Speaker 4:Like well, I'm rough and rugged because those days are behind me.
Speaker 2:I'm getting old. Now it's time to really lean into the authenticism behind it. Speaking on books have you ever read Dr Clarissa Pinkle's Women who Run With the Wolves? No, that book is just a jam-packed critical view on femininity.
Speaker 3:Oh, I got to read it.
Speaker 2:In a self-embracing way.
Speaker 3:It's just a bunch of short stories, like the story of Bluebeard and locking and killing all his wives until this one discovered what he was doing just these really analytical bits of fiction really that really well depict embracing your soft side okay, I'm going to have to write that one down after this so I can get a copy.
Speaker 2:I think I have an extra. Oh sweet, when you show me the pink suit, I'll bring you a copy. I think I have an extra. Oh sweet, when you show me the pink suit, I'll bring you a copy. Okay, sounds good.
Speaker 1:It's just so interesting. It makes me think of those whole teenage years where you kind of abandon a part of yourself. You go through the teenage years where you're like fuck everything and then you kind of return to it, and I mean, even as a guy, you know been through the same thing. Well, I guess, guy or woman, it doesn't matter um, but uh, yeah, what was I gonna go? Lost my train of thought there. Um, but yeah, even now I find um with like even masculinity, like men are a lot more open than they used to be. Like, it's even just how they dress colors. It's changed quite a bit. Um, you know, just you talking about uh, just doing whatever, and um, I mean hello, but it's um, uh, yeah, I kind of lost my train of thought there.
Speaker 2:I think there's like a weird breaking point that you hit. I want to say like as soon as you hit 30. Like 20s are still messy, late 20s are, you're kind of figuring yourself out, but once you hit that 30, it stops being so much about, you know, like the parents' perspective of you got to keep up with the Joneses and like what will other people think? And I think something very unique about our kind of generation is that we shed that kind of thing early, like where our parents and their generations above them were kind of coming into themselves and stopping caring so much about how they are perceived by society, like late in their 70s, when you know they've experienced it all and they just don't care. Our generation's kind of just fighting back and it's like no, I'll feel good about myself the way that I want, and why do I care if a stranger down the street thinks that I look ridiculous?
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally. I think, at the end of the day, like people should be able to express themselves however they want and not feel guilty about it.
Speaker 2:We have such like a guilt and shame presence in our society and how everybody conducts themselves in everyday life. It doesn't matter if it's coming through in their work or how they treat others or how they perceive themselves. I think, inherently, when it comes to the female experience that's rooted in us at such a young age Like you, have to be pure, you have to be obedient, and everything, every part of your body tries to fight that for so long that eventually you just hit the point of no return where you're like no, I'm in this. For me, all these people that I worried about for so long, they're not even a part of our lives anymore and I think that that's like a really cool part about where we're at in society. I'm curious to see what the Gen Zs and the Gen Alphas do when they're embracing themselves and their self-expression.
Speaker 3:I'm curious too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be wild.
Speaker 1:It's really been nailed into us so much like thinking of old disney movies where it was always the prince and the princess like things have changed quite a bit is where you don't see those stories as much anymore and, um, yeah, it's just, it's actually uh, like sometimes I look at it and I'm like, oh, it's really like poisoned our minds a lot, because I think we all kind of grew up on that. I mean, I guess it's how you take it. But, like you know, if you're taking it as scripture, like you know, no, you don't need to find a prince, you don't need to get married, you don't need to do these things that we've all been shown in these old movies as kids, like do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. On the one hand, like you know, like hyper-femininity and stuff, it's like perpetuating some of these stereotypes, though right, so there's two sides to it, that I think it's good to be aware of both of them and still be critical of that.
Speaker 1:No, I struggle with that too, where I do like tradition and I kind of embrace it, but I'm also not taking it so seriously. In a way, if that makes sense, you don't need to live by it per se, but you can still. There is still a way to appreciate it, I guess, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 3:It's part of what shapes us. It's not like it didn't happen. I think this comes by very naturally.
Speaker 1:You have to come by it honestly, of course.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't be like this if I lived in a different country in a different time period. Yeah, true, the environment totally shapes us.
Speaker 2:Self-expression and survival. And, yeah, being able to tap into these hyper-feminine aspects like having a fully pink apartment and going out dressed super, super feminine, that although there is a converse side of it where it does panner to the male gaze, and that sort of experience in this kind of aspect, it's like women are able to use that to take that power back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's one of the things I like about it is at that point, yeah, it's no longer for the male gaze, it's really for women and celebrating femininity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, thank you so much to Alice as asphyxia, thank you for having us in your home. Um, amazing experience. Um, yeah, I feel we're all over the map, like touched on so many things. Um, it was quite a lot for me to absorb. Um, but yeah, very thought-provoking, your art, hyper-femininity in all its aspects, just cuteness, culture, it's like, as I said before, just covers the gamut and there's so many places you can go with it. But, yeah, just thank you so much. I really appreciate having you on the Artsy Dudes. And thank you to Casey, our guest host. It was a privilege having you here. Um, yeah, thank you everyone for listening thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:If anyone wants to reach out or follow your work. Uh see where you're going next. Where can we find you?
Speaker 3:um, I have a website, um, all one word alice asphyxiacom, as well as instagram. I aliceasphyxia or pinkasphyxia. Yeah, and that's where I'm at right now, and I'll be at the Taboo Convention in the fall, in November, and at Sparrow Art Space doing a residency in September, where I'll be working and showing some work as well. See you then. Yeah, thank you.