From Badge to Author with Jim McNeff

What happens when a decorated law enforcement officer decides to trade his badge for a pen? Join us for an intimate conversation with Jim McNeff, who shares how his early dreams of becoming a cop, inspired by a mentor at Anaheim PD, paved the way for a dynamic 30-year career. But the journey didn't stop at retirement. Jim's venture into breeding and training German shepherds quickly turned into a surprising second career in writing, where he found solace and purpose by connecting his professional experiences with biblical principles.

Balancing a successful career and personal life can be challenging, and Jim's story is a testament to that. We delve into a period of his life marked by marital strife only to witness the transformative power of faith and repentance. Jim opens up about overcoming work addiction and rebuilding trust within his family, sharing a powerful narrative that underscores the complexities of grace and forgiveness in the church. This chapter is an emotional rollercoaster, highlighting how faith can restore even the most broken relationships.

The demands of news reporting in the law enforcement arena are relentless, and Jim offers a behind-the-scenes look as managing editor at Law Officer. We discuss the struggle against media bias, the importance of fair and accurate reporting, and the dedication it takes to provide an unbiased voice in the industry. Lastly, Jim shares his retirement plans and love for travel, emphasizing the joys of family and new adventures. This episode celebrates courageous leadership, unwavering faith, and the enduring strength of love. Don't miss out on this heartfelt journey with Jim McNeff.

You can purchase Jim's books here. 

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Transcript

Jim McNeff: 0:00

a lot of cops. All of a sudden, you know the drinking, the carousing, they became a real part of my life. I became and unlike people, a lot of people. When you go through the personal problems, that has a real negative impact on your life. Mine was just the opposite. I became a workaholic.

Speaker 2: 0:15

There was no better employee at my police department than me, although my personal life was complete shambles and welcome to courageous leadership with Travis Yates, where leaders find the insights, advice and encouragement they need to lead courageously.

Travis Yates: 0:35

Welcome back to the show. I'm so honored that you're spending a few minutes with us here today and I have been waiting for this interview for quite a while. On the show is Jim McNeff. He has over three decades in law enforcement, long retired from that career, but he just recently stepped down from almost a decade in publishing, working for several publications from law enforcement, ending his career at Law Officer Magazine lawofficercom. And there's just not a better guy to talk about career life, law enforcement, publishing, all things news than Jim. If you've read anything online about law enforcement, you've no doubt ran across something Jim has written. So we're very excited, jim, that you're here. How are you doing? I'm?

Jim McNeff: 1:25

doing well that you're here. How are you doing? I'm doing well, travis. Good morning. How are you?

Travis Yates: 1:29

Doing great man. So I just kind of wanted to get you on here because I mean, the knowledge you have over the last decade for sure of what's going on in the profession is unprecedented and of course what a decade it has been. But before we get there, just kind of walk us through your career and how you ended up going into obviously one day writing, and of course now you're trying to enjoy more of your retirement years, but before that, before you were a police officer. Kind of walk us through that life.

Jim McNeff: 2:00

Yeah, well, I tell you what. From the time I was in junior high Travis, I knew I wanted to be a cop. I was that junior high kid. I rode my bicycle around the neighborhood pretending to be a motor cop and, of course, unlike most motor cops, where they're stopping you're writing a citation. Of course, every every time I made a stop as a junior high kid it was a foot chase right, foot chase right, and so I just knew I wanted to be a cop from the get-go.

Jim McNeff: 2:24

I grew up in Anaheim, california. I had a mentor in life who worked for Anaheim PD. Matter of fact, he was a helicopter pilot of what they call Angel One, and I just remember one day at a church outing, he shined the light down on us at the church out there playing at what we called Boys Brigade it was like a Christian version of the Boy Scouts. He shined his light down on us and said over the loudspeaker he called each one of us out by name and I just said man, that is exactly what I want to do. I want to be a cop. And so I just set my focus on it, and he recommended that I get some military under my belt. So I was in the best civilian organization in the military that's the Air Force, and of course that's a joke for all my Marine friends, since I worked with a majority of Marines, it seemed like I had to say I was in the military Air Force. But anyway, so that started it. I enjoyed thoroughly my career in law enforcement. As far as assignments went, I was very fortunate. It seemed like I had a different assignment every four years and you know, most of the time when you get done, when you've done 30 years or 30 plus, whatever the case may be it feels like you've done everything in the department right, like you've done everything in the department right. And so that's kind of the way my career ended. It felt like I had done everything. I didn't feel cheated. Very, very satisfying career.

Jim McNeff: 3:55

When I retired, my aspiration actually was to breed and train German shepherds. So as my kids were going to college and getting married and going different places, my wife and I trailed our oldest child, a daughter, and her husband to Texas, because at the time we had two grandkids and so we wanted to be near the grandkids. So we moved to Texas, built our retirement home up in a town called Salina in North Dallas, and I was going to breed and train German shepherds, and so I had two pups from different litters. They were going to be, they were going to start my new adventure and I was probably two or three months into training them. Every day I would go out and train with the dogs, exercise the dogs and train with the dogs, exercise the dogs and doggone.

Jim McNeff: 4:52

If God just didn't continue to put vignettes from my career into my head as I was out training the dogs, and each one of these vignettes, it wasn't just a time to reflect on my career, but every time God put a story in my mind, he took me to Scripture somewhere and I felt like what God was telling me was okay, you can use this illustration to teach this biblical principle. And I ignored him for a couple months. I'm thinking well, this is a nice stroll down the memory lane, god. But you know, writing a book to me looked like David going up against Goliath. God, but you know, writing a book to me looked like David going up against Goliath. And it's like, if you want me to be victorious here, man, you got to give me those five.

Travis Yates: 5:31

Have you written before that, Jen? Had you enjoyed writing. Had you done any of that before that?

Jim McNeff: 5:37

I was probably the rare cop that actually enjoyed report writing. You know how it goes Writing reports. For most cops it's cops, it's not their number one thing that they enjoy.

Travis Yates: 5:48

But that's really the extent of it. You just enjoyed report writing. You didn't write anything official or anything. Now, before you go, let me back you up to your career, because you did do a lot of different assignments. By the way, that helicopter story never gets owed. I'm impressed to this day when I see that helicopter and I had the honor of commanding that unit at one time in my career and I still couldn't get over the awe of that. Of course, canine and all that is the same. You have this love of dogs. Did you do canine at some point in your career?

Jim McNeff: 6:18

I was not a handler, but for five years I managed the program. Once I made lieutenant at my department. You wear a bajillion hats it seemed like.

Jim McNeff: 6:27

So one of the hats I had to wear was I was the manager of the canine program and yeah, that's when I fell in love. I mean, I'd always had a love for dogs, going back to my childhood, but I never realized how much I loved the German Shepherds and the Malinois and I think I kind of freaked most of the handlers out because I was the lt out there with the bite sleeve on. I'd take bites at training and of course you need to know that when all the lawsuits land on your desk you better know something about the way I was in a similar position.

Travis Yates: 6:58

I had those units as a commander as well, and to your right. You don't actually have to know a lot about it, but a good leader wants to know a lot about it, right?

Jim McNeff: 7:07

Yeah, you better if you have to, because sooner or later you're going to have to defend what you do, and you can't defend what you do if you don't know how to do it. So anyway, yeah, so no, that's when I really fell in love with the dogs, was the period of time that I managed the canine program, and so, yeah, I just decided, going into retirement, that, wow, yeah, I want dogs by my side and so I'm going to train and breed them in retirement. But, like I mentioned previously, god kind of had other plans for me.

Travis Yates: 7:39

So he puts on your heart to write a book, kind of talk about that process. We have a lot of listeners who may have that thought themselves, and it is funny how we have our own plans. God sometimes derails those plans, but you listened, even though you were probably stubborn like most of us at first, and you moved that way. So kind of talk about that process of that first book Because I know you're involved in three, I believe but talk about that process.

Jim McNeff: 8:03

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think every cop has a book in them. I mean, you can't do this job, you know, and have more than one cup of coffee for any period of time where, and so my journey that that eventually the writing was. I had a. A mentor of mine said you know, just start to journal all of the, all of the high-risk stuff, all of the storytelling stuff that you get involved in, Just start to write about it when it happens. And this guy told me this about eight years into my career. Well, I didn't more than write about it. If I was involved in a situation that made the newspaper, I collected the articles. So at the end of my career I had three 8x11 manila envelopes, absolutely stuffed with news articles oh how we all wish we would have done that, Jim.

Jim McNeff: 8:52

How we all wish we would have done that.

Jim McNeff: 8:55

So when it came time to so. Anyway, now fast forward. I'm a couple months into retirement, I'm training my puppy German Shepherds. I'm training my puppy German Shepherds and I come back, and at the time our house was being built and so we were staying with my daughter and son-in-law and grandkids. So I come back from training one day I open up my laptop and my granddaughter says what are you doing, papa? At the time she's five.

Jim McNeff: 9:26

I said well, dakota, I think God might want me to actually put my police stories into a book. Oh, that's nice, can I read it? And I'm thinking, yeah, part of it. And uh. So what happened was over the next four hours I did not touch a keystroke, I did not type a word. All I did was cut and paste stories, top stories that I've been involved in and I'll have to insert here. For four years.

Jim McNeff: 9:52

I actually was a lay pastor of a ministry called In the Dirt. We were a group of dirt bike riders. Once a month we went out to a retreat in the high desert, we rode dirt bikes and then I preached every Saturday night at the campfire. So I took my cop stories and I connected them with notes, my message notes, and after four hours Travis, I kid you not cut and pasting for four hours, I thought I had 19 chapters to a book and I had not written a thing. Thought I had 19 chapters to a book and I had not written a thing.

Jim McNeff: 10:26

And so once that happened, I thought, okay, this is not me having indigestion, this is not me having anything other than this is God's direction for me. So I thought, okay, god again, I felt like David in writing a book at the time, felt like Goliath. I said I'll be obedient, I don't think I have much to say, but I know you have a lot to say. So here's the deal I'll take good notes when you're kind of talking to me through Scripture and through my own prayer life and through the mentors in my life. So that's kind of how the first book was born.

Travis Yates: 11:07

You speak about your faith and kind of talk about the importance of that through your law enforcement career, because obviously you have sort of two or three different camps in law enforcement. You've got true believers that are in this job and there's always kind of a tug and pull with that. You have people that think they're believers because they do a job. That's obviously not true and you have people that just don't believe because of the job they do and what they see. Kind of talk about the power of that faith you had in your career, Jim.

Jim McNeff: 11:37

Yeah, it's real. It was something I had growing up. I had it through my upbringing, through my military years, through my entry into law enforcement. But then it really got tested. I had probably not, unlike many cops. You know, we hire the type of people that will give you the shirt off their back when we hire them right.

Jim McNeff: 11:57

And then, after a couple of years worth of working graveyard shift weekends, it's so easy to get detached from your support network, and that absolutely happened to me. I mean, matter of fact, I've got three brothers who pastor churches and so in the early years of my law enforcement career I'm working graveyard I tried to go to church after graveyard shift. It got embarrassing when I'm falling asleep in church and my brother's up there, you know, delivering the message. And so I told my wife at the time. I said I'm not going to church after I work in graveyard. It's too embarrassing for me. I'm not going to church after I work in radio. It's too embarrassing for me. I'm not going to go there, fall asleep in church, it's just I'm not going to. So I actually I quit going to church for several years and I blamed it on the schedule.

Jim McNeff: 12:49

Well, what happens is when you detach yourself from the things in life. That will sharpen the sword, so to speak, that will keep you accountable. That will be your community to help you through those rough times. All of a sudden, I put all of those things to the side and guess what? I'm not unlike a lot of cops. All of a sudden, you know the drinking, the carousing, they became a real part of my life. I became, and, unlike a lot of people, when you go through the personal problems, it has a real negative impact on your life. Mine was just the opposite. I became a workaholic. There was no better employee at my police department than me, although my personal life was a complete shambles. This is part of my first book. I just appropriately titled the chapter Prodigal Son because I did.

Jim McNeff: 13:32

I had five years where, again, my professional life spot on. I mean, I couldn't do any wrong, but my personal life was just in the toilet. And so it was during that point in time where, during that five-year period, we had our first two children and man, I just remember just breaking down and bawling one evening and I just knew I'm about to lose a great woman in my life. Matter of fact, the only reason she even stayed married to me through that five-year period was. It was not out of weakness on her part, it was out of her own testimony and strength.

Jim McNeff: 14:11

And God kept reminding her that well, you don't have to like him right now, but I am commanding you to love him. And that's a concept people are going to wait a second. You have to love him when you don't have to like him. Well, yeah, because we should never like anything. I don't want to get too preachy here, but of course the Bible calls it sin, the world calls it a lot of other things, but, matter of fact, we're actually commanded not to like that stuff and still love the person who's engaged in it. So that's kind of a hard concept for a lot of people to understand.

Jim McNeff: 14:44

But my wife understood it and she put it into practice and finally, one day I just broke down just bawling and I knew I was about to lose my wife. I was about to lose my wife. I was about to lose my children and the thought of someone else raising my children broke my heart. But it actually wasn't until my wife told me that we were unexpectedly pregnant with our third child. That that convinced me that I got to get my personal life together. I got to get my act together. I got to surrender my life to Christ. I've got to get back on track, and so that was a turning point for me.

Jim McNeff: 15:17

So it's kind of about year nine, year 10 in my professional life that my spiritual life turned around. And you know, the sad thing is is when you're living like hell and you're living for the next, what we call a debriefing at the bar right after work. At the time I was working narcotics and being a narc, it was not unusual. We could be at work two, three. There's one point in time I didn't come home for a week, and that wasn't from a deep undercover assignment, that was just we were all rabid dogs in my small unit and if the case meant we had to sit on a sit on a moat because he just crossed the border into mexico, we were going to sit at the border.

Travis Yates: 15:59

You're on doper time. At that point there's no telling when the day is going to get over oh yeah, so, uh, so, yeah, that's so.

Jim McNeff: 16:06

Anyway, I finally said, god, my life is yours again. And so, once that process began, we started to attend a church that had a great recovery program for anybody who has any kind of an addictive vice, and people and that's one thing about cops is we don't view anything that we're doing as an addictive vice, when in fact, the reality is man, even if you are married to the job, yeah, that's an addictive vice. So I had that going on. I wasn't an alcoholic, I just like going to drink with the guys.

Jim McNeff: 16:45

Right, yeah, and during that period of time this is a man uh, yeah, I was unfaithful to my wife. I mean, I was involved in a series of affairs. It's like I was a bachelor, I lived like I was a bachelor, it was horrible, did horrible things and uh. But that's the beauty of God's redemptive, uh, or God's redemption in our life is he can take what we have messed up. And because my wife stood with me, stood by me, and then I chose to turn from all of that and to become a new man, god has used our marriage and I mean that was gosh, what was that? That was almost 30 years ago.

Travis Yates: 17:31

Well, and non-believers? This is where they really get stuck, because you actually just described the Bible right Repentance, faith and that's the story of the Bible is what you described. Not everybody has that story, but everybody has a story to where they got away from it for a while and had to be brought back. Almost every Christian you talk to has that story, but everybody has a story to where they got away from it for a while and had to be brought back. Almost every Christian you talk to has that story, including myself. But that's where unbelievers really sort of use that against Christians. I love it when nonbelievers want to preach to Christians about the Bible. That's awesome to me when I hear that, right.

Travis Yates: 18:06

But that's actually the story of the Bible and it's a beautiful although it sounds odd. It's a beautiful picture of what Christianity is to so many people and I'm sure today you're who you are today, in your faith, in your family, in the jobs you've done because of that. That's also the beauty of Scripture.

Jim McNeff: 18:25

Yeah, and if I can even just input this, because I know, because there's been people who knew me before my prodigal son years who still, to this day, they have a very hard time offering grace and forgiveness to some. What's interesting here I found this out about the church, if you will, and that is they're very good at extending grace to someone whose life has always been a mess. They're not very good at extending grace to someone who was scored away. Their life became messy and then they turned back to God, and I've experienced a lot of both of that.

Jim McNeff: 19:04

But as my wife and I have now been involved in various ministries over the last 25, 30 years about 30 years now and my wife has been very involved in counseling women whose husbands have been unfaithful and what's interesting is that people want to blame the church as the institution of the church. They want to blame the church for the problems of sinful people. Well, and so whenever someone is hurt, they're not mad or angry at the person in the church that hurt them, they're angry at the church. Well, it's not the church that hurt them, it's the sin of the individual person that hurt them, and that's a concept that more people would do better if they came to understand that the institution of the church didn't hurt you. It was the individuals in that institution.

Travis Yates: 19:58

So you end your law enforcement career and God sends you to write this book. You write two more books. At what point did you get involved in writing for law enforcement?

Jim McNeff: 20:10

Yeah. So after the first book came out, then I was just reaching out to different publications to say because you know, that's how you market yourself, is you just continue to write articles? So I had reached out and so I started to write a lot of articles for a publication and after writing for them for about a year, the owner asked me hey, I'm looking for an editor. And I just kind of laugh. I'm going well, do you want an editor who knows anything about editing, or do you want an editor who knows about? You know, cops and robbers? I know a lot about cops and robbers, I don't know jack about editing. And he goes yeah, no, I want an editor who knows about police work and we can deal with the other. I said well, if that's your criteria, then yeah, I'd be open to that. So I started to work there and I was there for nearly three years as their managing editor and some things came up that I was just in disagreement with.

Travis Yates: 21:06

Well, let's talk about not exactly the disagreements but the work time. Let's talk about not exactly the disagreements but the work time, because I think people don't understand that as a managing editor it's not exactly a nine to five easy job. You probably had all sorts of hours, probably were working more than you wanted to write in retirement.

Jim McNeff: 21:25

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I can't underestimate. I mean, unless you've got a team somewhere. Yeah, it's a seven. The news business it's a seven day a week, 24 hour cycle. It never goes to bed, never sleeps, and so, as you know, most law enforcement news organizations that have propped up or cropped up in the last decade, that's kind of the way they're run. They're run with a skeletal staff with a minimal amount of overhead and income, and so people work like a dog.

Jim McNeff: 21:58

And so and I'm really not saying this, not over-exaggerating it, but essentially for the last eight plus years that I've been involved in editing for the most part, yeah, I've worked seven days a week, not 24 hours a day, but I would routinely put in 12 hour days and on the other hours when I'm not working, like if I'm watching a ballgame or something on TV, where I've got split attention. I've got one eye on news stories. I've got another eye on the ballgame game. Something pops up and it's a, it's a breaking news story. All of a sudden, you're no longer watching the ball game, you're, you're writing an article.

Travis Yates: 22:36

I can remember super bowls with family. Boom, the laptop has to come out because something popped up. I can remember at a beach house with the family one morning when the laptop had to come open and you missed two hours with the family. I've been in that rat race a little bit nothing compared to you and that's why, obviously, five years ago you came on board at Law Officer and we'll attach the article here to this video.

Travis Yates: 23:00

But you gave me a call and you wanted to come over to Law Officer and of course my only promise to you was I'll try not to work you as hard, but I can't promise anything else, including money, and you said sure, which was to my surprise. You were willing to do it, because the article will explain that I was trying to prop this brand up. That had been around since 2004 and nobody else seemed to want to do it. And I'm just kind of stubborn enough to think to myself well, it needs to stay up for the profession and it's still here today because of you, jim. Just kind of talk about walking into that process and kind of the last five years.

Jim McNeff: 23:36

Yeah, you know, travis, what really motivated me? Once my days in uniform came to an end, I retired in 2012. Ferguson happened in 2014. We got Baltimore shortly after that. Then, of course, we have the George Floyd thing in 20.

Jim McNeff: 23:56

And law enforcement as an institution was just lit on fire, and so I felt compelled, like man. We need a voice, because mainstream media they're not going to give us the benefit of the doubt. We're getting crucified, we being again the institutional law, we're getting crucified and it's not. We're not afraid of the news stories. We just want a fair shake. It's all we want, and if the evidence takes us one place, all right, let's go there. But the way it was being manipulated again I'm going back to 2014 in Ferguson I just thought, yeah, I'm motivated to try to put not to put the blinders on, but doggone it. Yeah, people that know how law enforcement operates. We need to be writing not just our perspective from writing editorials and op-eds, but we also just need to be covering the news stories so that way it's actually reported, as opposed to being just another article that's going to slam those filthy cops who are out there just beating up people.

Travis Yates: 25:06

Well, I mean people owe you a lot of thanks to this, jim, because I don't think people understand that when you look at a police story on your social media feed, or especially the TV, that's not law enforcement people. We all know. Everyone listening to this understands the bias of the media as a large. If you don't, then you are the media. Everybody knows that. You're not reading stories that just tell you what's happening. This tells you the facts. You're reading a slanted story, and your work has been one of the few, if any, in many of these stories that actually told the true story.

Travis Yates: 25:44

And I'm even including many police organizations that don't do this because they have funding coming from different sources. They don't want to offend people Corporate run websites. Even police websites are run by corporations. They're very careful in what they write because of sponsors, and so Law Officer is truly one of the only outlets that, quite frankly, could care less about sponsors, and they just want to tell the truth. That's why you didn't make a lot of money at Law Officer, but people need to understand. That's the importance of having that type of publication around.

Travis Yates: 26:17

I'm not saying there's not a few blogs out there that are trying to do this, but as far as a large media source that's not slanted, because there are some, even slanted far on the right side, right. You always try to come at it from the middle and just tell the truth, and then, of course, letting officers have a voice. One thing I've always been impressed with you, jim if somebody wanted to reach out to you to write an article or to even promote their book, you said, come on, let's do it. You would give them that voice, because I myself can't contact most mainstream outlets, even though I've been doing this for many years. They're not going to pay me any attention because I'm not going to say what they want me to say.

Travis Yates: 26:51

You, doing this for many years. They're not going to pay me any attention because I'm not going to say what they want me to say. You took yourself out of that which at one time was called journalism. It seems odd to me that you're not a trained journalist, but your ethics and integrity align with what journalism should be Be skeptical, tell the truth, give the facts, give it the way it is and let the reader decide. You are one of the only ones out there, especially in our industry, doing that which is sad about the industry, but, man, I'm very thankful for that.

Jim McNeff: 27:17

Yeah, you know what's interesting too now, being on the other side, being on the journalistic side now for several years I don't want to say this too loud because I don't want to be missing it it's given me a little bit of understanding, compassion for journalists, true journalists who are actually trying to write a legitimate story. And there's a handful of them out there not very many, but there are a handful. And what's interesting is when you are writing something from you're now a civilian, you're not in the loop, you're not in the information loop, and all you have are just a press release, a snippet here I mean, holy cow, a snippet can even be amazing just to help your story, because you just don't have details. You know, as cops we're used to having all the information. You know you sit down and write your arrest report, man, you've got it all, you've got all the details. Now, when you're writing a news piece, man, you don't have anything. And so what's interesting is when you get done writing, it's like I've got more questions on the story than I had before I started writing it. But that's all the information I have. So I have to.

Jim McNeff: 28:30

I can't make it up, and there are clearly some news organizations. Oh yeah, they'll make it up, uh, and they'll make it up in a way that's not flattering and uh, you know, sadly they don't get enough egg on their face and if they do, it comes way after the fact and anyway. But yeah, it's a tough business again because you're kind of you're handcuffed with not all the information that you would. And I tell you what else I had to fight against Travis is because I spent three decades in the business. We can read between the lines based upon what is being released. You can't write what's between the lines If they didn't say it, if they didn't confirm it. You know it happened because you were on that side, but you can't write it. And boy I tell you what that side, but you can't write it. And boy I tell you what. That's probably one of the biggest challenges I had. Man, I knew it happened, but I couldn't have asked you to write it because it was not confirmed.

Travis Yates: 29:30

Yeah, you look at the George Floyd incident and of course, the coverage there was unlike any other. I mean, it's kind of funny. I see Liz Carlson's great documentary, the Fall of Minneapolis, yeah, and everyone goes oh my gosh, look at all this new information. Well, you were writing that three or four days later, three or four days after it happened, all those articles are still online. Of course, social media didn't like it very much, but it was all planned out to be true. That's why I was looking at Fauci's testimony yesterday and I'm thinking to myself well, he's saying the very things that you all canceled, everybody for on social media. And now it's true, right, so you, you were far ahead of that, but you're right. You knew and I knew when Minneapolis wouldn't release the body camera. Read between the lines, but you can't exactly write that Right.

Jim McNeff: 30:14

Yeah, and you know what I appreciate that, Travis, but I had a lot of help with Minneapolis. We had several people that were contributing on that and, yeah, and Law Officer, as an organization we went matter of fact, so many of those facts that were in Liz Collins' piece, the fall of Minneapolis yeah, go back and look at the Law Officer man. We reported that stuff yeah.

Travis Yates: 30:42

I actually questioned her why we weren't cited in her references, and I did it all in fun because she knew they existed. She had done the research. I saw those back in the day. But you know, I think people need to understand that that's not easy to do, right. It's easy to be comfortable, it's easy to write what everybody's writing. And what I've always appreciated about you, jim, is you could tell you put the work in, because law officer is different than others, and that's something I think to be proud of.

Travis Yates: 31:12

And, of course, you've been doing it for such a long time. It's time to just sort of move on and spend more time with your family. And so what plans do you have? I mean, first off, I think people can tell by looking at you. That's why I wanted to film this. You're a, you're a good looking man. You're in shape. You know, 10 years retired, better shape than when I. You know that I was even on the job. So you're, you're a guy that likes fitness. You like to stay active. Um, I'm going to just guess this, no offense I think you're in your early 60s and, uh, 62.

Jim McNeff: 31:48

So so kind of tell me what your days are going to look like and what your plans are moving forward. Well, recreation has always been a big part of my life. Uh, some people, they, they, uh, they deal with the stress you know, through uh, through music, through other men I do, I deal with my. Not only do I deal with my stress at the gym, but the gym is also that's my prayer room. I don't like working out with anybody because I get in a zone when I'm working out and I do a lot of praying when I work out, I listen to my podcast when I work out and I don't like interruptions, so I very rarely even talk. People at my gym probably think I'm anti-social because I just I put the earbuds in, I don't talk to people, uh, but that's just, that's the zone I'm. So that has always been a part of my life. It will continue. Continue to be part of my life, only probably even more so now, because I just love outdoor sports.

Jim McNeff: 32:42

I'm a huge cyclist, a huge motorcyclist. I love paddleboarding, kayaking, doing all those sorts of things. But you know, my wife and I we had our 40th anniversary last year and we did a road trip. That just got me thirsty for more road trips, because there are just so many places in this beautiful country that I haven't seen. So for our 40th anniversary we did a three-week trip. We hit nine destinations and it was just one of the most relaxing things that we had done. So that's on the map for the future is annually we want to take, and they're expensive. I mean, you know you take one, you think, oh, I'm driving, it can't be through, oh yeah yeah, have you done the rv route or you just take the car?

Jim McNeff: 33:27

well, we, we've done the rv in the past. Matter of fact, when I mentioned earlier that we were involved in that, uh, that in the dirt ministry, uh, we, we had an rv, we had a toy hauler big truck, you know, took our motorcycles everywhere. Right now I'm going back and forth on buying a coach or just doing it by hotel, and there's a lot of opinions on how to do it. I actually think it's more economical, believe it or not, to do hotels than an RV. A lot of people would argue no, no, no, you're not seeing. You see all the exact same places. Only you get to sleep in a comfortable hotel and when you're just don't stop in a hotel in a big city, you stop in the hotels between the big cities and, holy cow, the price is like 75% of what it would be in the big city. So we're still determining whether or not we're going to buy a coach, whether we're going to do hotel, but we are definitely going to be doing a lot of traveling by road here coming up in the near future.

Jim McNeff: 34:31

Along with the fact that both of our boys, who are still in California when we left there they were in college single young men. Now they're both married and they both have two kids. So, yeah, there's a lot and we haven't convinced them to join us in Texas yet. You know, obviously work is a big factor, so you got to go where the employment is and right now they're all employed in California. So we're trying to get them employed in Texas is what we're trying to do. But in the meantime, yeah, there's a lot of travel to and from California as well.

Travis Yates: 35:04

Well, man, well-deserved Jim, and it's been an honor to know you, to work around you and to see what you've done, and all the best man Any any parting. Oh, by the way, before we get going, where can they find your books? Where are they? Where can folks find you? Where can they go to see all that?

Jim McNeff: 35:24

You can just Google my name on Amazon or just go to Amazon and just type in my name, jim McNuff, and it will have all three books there. Just a quick overview. The first book is just a series of war stories that are connected to biblical principles. The second book, that one, is called the Spirit Behind Badge 145, kind of a personal memoir with a lot of. I've made 31 chapters, so there's either 28, 30, or 31 days in every month. You pick it up, do one chapter a day. It's a good study book for cops who like to have war stories with it.

Jim McNeff: 36:02

The second book it's what I call bathroom reading. It was born out of when I was trying to market the first book and I was doing some a lot of daily journaling. Again, these again when you've had a long career, these stories continue to pop up. So what I did was kind of a similar version of the first book, only shorter, quick, little law enforcement vignettes with biblical principles behind it. That book is called Justice Revealed. And then the third book is Jurisdiction.

Jim McNeff: 36:31

A cop and a pastor talk about life. That book took both myself and a brother of mine who's a pastor. He retired after 44 years in the ministry. He and I wrote a book on the sovereignty of God. I wrote the illustrations, he wrote the theology, and so I almost shouldn't even take credit for being a co-author in that book, because the reality is now, that book was a graduate program. It was a four-year graduate program for me where, again, I supplied the illustrations. He wrote the theology and it's all about.

Jim McNeff: 37:06

You know, everybody has those difficult questions about God, like does God even exist? If he exists, where is he? If he's somewhere, how did he communicate with us? How do we know he's real? How do we know there's a heaven? How do we know there's a hell? How do we know there's a hell? How do we know how to get? Why do bad things happen to good people? So we take those difficult questions in life. Everybody wants to have them answered.

Jim McNeff: 37:29

I don't care if you're an atheist or if you're a diehard believer. We all have those questions. We all are looking for answers to those questions. And so my brother John McNuff and I we walk the reader through 16 of those difficult questions and 16 chapters that will take you all the way from the beginning of time, why the Bible was canonized the way it was, why we can have faith that that is in fact the ultimate authority all the way into the glory of heaven. So that book again, it's like I just went along for the ride. On that one I'm the co-author of the book, but that one it's all about God's sovereignty. And what exactly does that even mean?

Travis Yates: 38:18

Yeah, it's amazing stuff. We'll link all that up here in the show notes. Jim McNeff, I can't thank you enough for being here. I can't thank you enough for your lifelong service to others. Thanks for being here.

Jim McNeff: 38:28

Travis, thanks for the time. I appreciate it, my friend.

Travis Yates: 38:31

And if you've been listening, thank you for doing that. Thank you for your time and just remember lead on and stay courageous.

Speaker 2: 38:39

Thank you for listening to Courageous Leadership with Travis Yates. We invite you to join other courageous leaders at www. travisyates. org.