EP19 TALIA SHANI :The brainchild behind Amazing Women in E-commerce & celebrating Women in Tech

Episode 19 :My next guest is Talia Shani , Director of Marketing at Yotpo and Amazing Women in Ecomm founder .
 In our latest podcast episode, we navigate the chaotic, exciting world of startups and e-commerce with Talia, the marketing maven at Yotpo and founder of Amazing Women in E-commerce. Talia shares her unexpected journey from aspiring restaurateur to e-commerce specialist, providing revealing insights about seizing opportunities and being in the right place at the right time.

This conversation also brings to light the stark gender disparities in the job market, a topic often swept under the rug. Talia shares her experiences and invaluable insights into the art of confidence, tackling new challenges, and the vital role of a supportive team. A day in her life at Yotpo reveals what she finds most fulfilling about her role -- it's all about the people she works with.

As we pivot towards Amazing Women in E-commerce, Talia's brainchild, we discuss the importance of setting boundaries for work-life balance and the power of mentorship. It's all about asking the right questions and getting valuable answers. We wrap up the conversation with a thoughtful discussion on parenting, resilience, and Talia's strong belief in helping others. This episode is a riveting blend of career growth, personal development, and entrepreneurial spirit. So, if you're ready to understand the world of e-commerce through the eyes of a pro, this episode is just for you. Tune in, sit back, and let Talia's story inspire you.

0:00     Introduction

0:13    Trailblazers Experience Welcome Talia

8:17    Gender Differences in Job Positioning

18:15  Amazing Women in E-Commerce

29:20  Setting Boundaries for Work-Life Balance

40:51   Belief in Fate and Helping Others

44:17    Trailblazer takeaways

47:17     Designing your Life & Having a Mentor

https://youtu.be/FM_zXKuU-ko

Mentions :
Amazing Women in Ecommerce  
https://womeninecomm.yotpo.com/   
Designing your life  - Bill Burnett

Talia Shani
Linkedin:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/talia-shani-39018189/
Instagram : @womeninecomm

Listen : to the audio version Apple Spotify .Amazon Music Google Podcasts
Watch and subscribe to my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@Thetrailblazersexperience
Follow Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/thetrailblazersexperience/

Transcript

The Trailblazers experience: 0:13

Welcome to another episode of the Trailblazers Experience podcast. And happy, happy July, no, have you been enjoying?

Talia: 0:21

Wimbledon. Oh we, okay. No, first of all I haven't been watching it, but I'm a colleague. We had an event there and a colleague of mine got to go and was setting us the most glorious pictures. He was having a very fancy day and he he said, well, we've texted him, how's it going? He said, well, we've just finished lunch And I guess we're going to go watch some tennis. Now I heard there's some tennis on or something.

The Trailblazers experience: 0:43

So I know.

Talia: 0:45

Wimbledon, I hope.

The Trailblazers experience: 0:47

Yeah, well, it's the summertime, So that's a good thing. So happy July is what I can say then.

Talia: 0:52

Yep.

The Trailblazers experience: 0:53

Happy July, definitely, and happy to welcome you as my guest, talia. I think this has been a long time coming And I will just introduce you to the audience so that they know who this badass woman is. So Talia is director of marketing at Yopo. So Yopo is a platform which creates seamless e-commerce journeys for customers, delivering tech stacks to support retention marketing, from reviews to loyalty, referrals, etc. But what makes Talia amazing, apart from her years of experience in this sector, is she's also the founder of amazing women in e-commerce, which looks as a platform to amplify visionary women in the e-commerce industry. So I'm really excited to talk to you about your career and how you got to where you are right now. But also talking about these, you know, personal achievements starting amazing women in e-commerce is brilliant, especially in this day and age where we need to amplify women's voice. So, talia, welcome.

Talia: 1:53

Thank you so much, ntola. You are an amazing woman in e-commerce And usually this is so funny because usually this has flipped And I am interviewing you because you've been such an excellent part of the community and done different events and stuff like that for us, so this is funny to be on the other side of this.

The Trailblazers experience: 2:09

Yeah, i mean, someone has to acknowledge you know what you are doing and sharing on this platform. The aim was obviously to inspire women, young women, older women, next generation women so we can continue this. You know having this suite of women coming up in the industry, so let's take it all the way back. Tell me about yourself, your background, where you're from and how your career sort of started leading you to this point.

Talia: 2:33

Sure, oh, word of the game. Okay, so I grew up. I'm obviously American. I grew up in, i grew up in New York City And I have like, how far back do we want to go? I went to.

The Trailblazers experience: 2:46

I started teenage years. That's always like you know. It forms you, isn't it? It shapes you and who you are.

Talia: 2:51

Okay, yeah, so I was. I loved restaurants and food And so I went to hospitality school with the goal of I thought I wanted to open a restaurant And I mean I was. You know, yeah, when I was 18, i started university, so I thought I wanted to open a restaurant And I think very quickly learned that that is a very scary line of business to be in, but I was still really passionate about food. So actually, after graduating from university, my first job was as a cook. I worked as a line cook in New York City for maybe five years, i think. Just yeah, cooking in professional kitchens, and I loved it.

Talia: 3:28

But it's a very hard line of work and a job where I felt like it would be really hard to. It's hard to maintain a social life and, you know, have a family and things like that, and so I knew I sort of wanted to get into another line of work. So I decided to go back to school. I got my master's in organizational behavior, admittedly something I wasn't super interested in, but it was a master's program that was available in Israel And I wanted to move to Israel, where my parents are from, so I did that master's And there that's where I had this.

Talia: 4:04

I got this idea in my head I want to work at a startup. And I don't even know if I knew what that meant. I just said I want to work at a startup. And so I remember, after I graduated, i would literally just I was like I would get in touch with incubators and different startups And I didn't even know what they did. I just said I want to work at a startup And you know, i didn't have that much experience at that point. I also started working in marketing, sort of like B2C marketing, but I still had this like startup, startup, startup. And yeah, i guess one day, like 10 years ago, i applied for a job at Yoppo. I got a call And, yeah, i was hired. I started. I was like the 20 something employee. Now we're like 900 or 1000 people. So it's pretty wild. And I've been here for 10 years, ever since leading our content team And then six years ago, moving to London to be part of our founding team for our UK office.

The Trailblazers experience: 5:03

So that's interesting because, is it true? I think I read some research that Israel is one of the top startup industry sectors, so it's it's really, you know, funded and advocated by the government there. So you were sort of in the right place, right time to go for that as well, because I think it's important also to highlight that for women out there that I'm not saying your circumstance determines how your career goes, but if you'd said you know, i want to work with a startup and you went Antarctica, for example, where I'm sure the startup percentage is really low.

The Trailblazers experience: 5:39

You know, that dream maybe would not have happened. You probably would have been working in organizational sciences. So the fact that you said, wow, this is interesting. I want to be part of building businesses from the ground up. Where does that come from? Because something must have been sparked, you know, in you growing up. Saying this is, you know, this is the thread of what makes me and what, where I'd like to go with that. Yeah, i think.

Talia: 6:04

I wish I knew at the time what drove me. So I'll say first of all what you said about sort of being in the in the right place. I think I really I was informed by the place that I was right. I don't, if I was not living in Israel, i don't think I would have had this startup dream. Oh, this is an interesting industry. Yeah, it's obviously huge, is everywhere there. So I said let me get involved. And where did it come from? I don't, i don't know. There's a, there's a whole book about why Israel is a center of like a startup, like of the, why Israel is the startup nation. And maybe because I have Israeli parents that I felt that same need. But I did, i think feeling need to be a part of something. And I think the Something about the work culture of a startup really appealed to me. I think a corporate was not something that was going to sit well with me.

The Trailblazers experience: 6:50

So the fact that you were in Israel and it was already there, that helped shape the trajectory of where you were going as well. Yeah, so at the time you joined Yotpo I mean small business and then did they then suggest that you come to the UK and head that up? And what was your response? I mean initial response.

Talia: 7:11

So I am So from the time I joined Yotpo and then I was there for four years before we opened our UK office, And in that time I was focused specifically on running the content team. And then this opportunity came. Basically, we had opened our US office, and when we opened the US office, it was only sales on the ground. We only moved a marketer there a year or two later. So we learned from that mistake And we understood, when we opened the UK and me office, we need to have marketing on the ground from the beginning.

Talia: 7:45

And so my boss thank goodness, my boss at the time, somebody who always had a lot of faith in me and always kind of encouraged me came to me and offered me and said you know, do you want to do this? Now? it was completely different from what I was doing at the time. I don't know how much I understood that, or he understood that or anyone understood it. But I said, sure, I've always been one for adventure And I was with my I wasn't my husband yet, but we were together and we thought, yeah, it'll be an adventure, We'll move to the UK, Maybe we'll be there two or three years. And yes, six years later, we are still here.

The Trailblazers experience: 8:16

Yeah, that's really interesting. I think we were talking about it at the beginning of the podcast, so about how men and women position themselves differently for job roles.

The Trailblazers experience: 8:27

So, you just went in and said, look, we're just going to go for it, which is not a typical way that women sort of react. As women, i think, we tend to be calculated and find out what the risk is. Do I have the qualifications, do I not? And you were like no, i know, this is a new job, it's a new country, it's a new role. We're just going to plunge ourselves into it. And that's interesting, i think to say at least.

Talia: 8:52

I've never thought about it like that. It's so interesting that you bring that up, natola, because I think I struggle with the same thing of feeling like an imposter syndrome and feeling like you know, can I do it. But I think that's part of the thing about being at a company for so long which I'm so lucky to have here at Yotpo being here for 10 years is I always wanted more and I always felt comfortable asking for more and trying to do more. I think partially because I feel so comfortable here at such a familiar place And, like I said, the business has always been so amazing about having faith in me and giving me new challenges. And it's also just kind of the culture of the company. It's kind of everyone is encouraged to take on new challenges. If you see something wrong, if you see something that needs to be done, go ahead and take care of it. It doesn't matter where you are. But yeah, it's really interesting that you put it that way, because I always I never saw it that way.

The Trailblazers experience: 9:45

Yeah, no, there are statistics that say so. Men will apply for a role or go for a challenge if they meet 42% of the requirements of the job role, whereas women will only apply for it if they meet at least 60. So we're oing and oing more than just going for it. So if there's any lesson there is. Sometimes it's just to take the plunge. And what's unique is also, Tali, is that you've been in an organization for 10 years, which in this day and age that's considered very long. Most people stay two years and then move on. So for someone who's trying to understand, director of marketing, what's a typical day for you? What is it you do?

Talia: 10:27

Oh my gosh, there's no typical day. I'm sure if you ask that question you get that answer. A lot The main North Star is I'm responsible for me and my team Sorry, i should say there is a team that are responsible for bringing demand from the EMEA market, and I got to say that job changes. What it was six years ago when we got here on the ground was nobody had heard of Yotpo. There was a very strong, and at that time Yoppo was only doing reviews and there was TrustPilot in the market. That was all over the place. I remember when I moved here there was literally like every ad on the tube would have their little TrustPilot star rating, and so we moved here and people just didn't know who we were. So it was a lot of brand building and awareness, trying to just get a foot in the door, get people to talk to us. That was what it was. What it is now is entering new markets. I can't believe I can say we have built a lot of momentum in the UK market And now the question is where can we go next?

Talia: 11:27

Where are we seeing? And it's not even It's what's the smart place to go next, because we're seeing demand from the rest of Europe. But it's like where can we support this? Where is it most interesting for us to go? And so, yeah, now a big part of my job is at, during the French market And I don't speak any French before you ask and figuring out how we're going to do that. And so I guess, at a nutshell, it's this idea of building, establishing us in a new market, building that momentum and then maintaining it. And so now, like kind of repeat, Yeah, Yeah.

The Trailblazers experience: 12:03

And what do you love? What do you find fulfilling about your role? You know you've got 10 years to look over what excites you about the business and the role.

Talia: 12:11

That's an easy one. It's the people. It's the people that I work with. It's I could be doing anything working with these people. We could be shoveling shit. Am I allowed to curse? We could be Girl for girl.

Talia: 12:25

This is Yeah We could be doing anything And it's with this group of people. I would be happy and engaged and enjoying it, and I think that's one thing that has kept me at the company for this long is I couldn't do this work if I didn't love everyone I worked with, and I think Yoppa was so amazing at that amazing, having created and maintaining a culture I hesitate to use the word culture because sometimes it seems like people are cookie cutter or that it feels. I mean it literally has the word cult in it that there's some kind of sameness. I wouldn't say that's what happens here, but it is a group of people with, most importantly, take the work very, very seriously. Do not take themselves too seriously.

Talia: 13:10

That is like a key thread And like the kiss of death is someone who takes themselves too seriously. That makes it so much fun. So, yeah, it's all about the people. I have also the utmost faith, like the product, the company, the leadership. It's great. You could say it's easy. I have an easy job because the R&D and the product people build something so amazing. It's easy to market. But yeah, it all comes down to the people, from the leadership to everyone that I work with.

The Trailblazers experience: 13:46

Yeah, and probably some of the positives of starting in a business that was a startup. So you're there from the ground up, seeing the milestones and seeing the technology develop, evolve. Like you said, every day is a different day because it's something else we're talking about, isn't it? Who knew that AI would be the biggest conversation of this year, when actually you have been using it a lot in your tools and things like that, but now that it's coming at the forefront, who would have known that this would have been the year of? I've seen so many AI businesses sprouting up that you sort of think where is this actually going?

Talia: 14:25

Yeah, I mean we Watching the company evolve like I can talk. I don't even Where it's going. Where AI is going to go for e-commerce is like a whole other topic, but even the way that I, in my day to day, i now use chat GBT every single day, i will actively think of things to say. Let me put this into chat GBT and see what happens. It's so useful, it's so amazing. It's really transformed how I work And I just was using an AI tool for clipping videos. I'm just so excited about all of the prospects And I know there's a lot of talk about will it replace me one day? Maybe it will, but for now, it's making my job more interesting, more fun.

The Trailblazers experience: 15:11

Yeah, and also easier Before we would be looking at Google Scholar or, i hate to say, the heyday of going through encyclopedias and so on. So it's actually another way of you getting information at the tip, maybe to validate and let you do a bit more research on things and, just like a sense, check. So there should already be a sense of intellect when using chat GPT. Otherwise, it's a bit challenging. Talking about challenges, talk to me about some challenges that you have experienced in your career, and then I'd really like to talk about starting amazing women in e-commerce.

The Trailblazers experience: 15:48

Sure Challenges of experience in my career, i think it's so Especially as a woman, talia, especially as a woman.

Talia: 15:58

Yeah, yeah, it's so funny to have the perspective of so much that you all have been in exchange over 10 years, but there is a standardization 10 years have been in the same place, right, and so the challenges they really feel and also the perspective of looking back and being a mother now also has completely changed my perspective of everything. So many of the challenges I faced were really internal. At the time. They seemed external. Right At the time it seemed like something was unfair. But only now, with all of this time and being at the same place, do I understand like, oh, that was me, that was my bad, those were my challenges. And again, like being in a place that has been so, it's just been an amazing place to grow and always sort of encouraged me and looked out for me. I've been able to learn from that.

Talia: 16:53

But I think biggest challenge is my own confidence, like knowing that I could do something, which is why I said it's funny You read me agreeing to do the job in London as confidence, because I didn't feel confident at the time.

Talia: 17:09

I know it'll be interesting, but you're right, it is a form of confidence And I think my own, something I struggle with every day, so I hesitate to say that this is something that's solved. Great, the way that I saw things in the past as like happening to me, when they were just things that were happening, like I want to go back and like shake myself, like I thought I was the center of every decision, like if I didn't get a promotion, i thought that people sat in a room and said, why shouldn't Talia get this promotion? You know what I mean versus what happened, which is like, oh, we have this role. Who do we think might be a good fit? Oh, this other person could be a great fit, and so this idea that I was at the center of everything was such a challenge and again, something so internal. At the time, like I said, i thought it was external. That's probably it, i think. Yeah, i understand, i guess maybe that's probably called perspective, to sum it up, but yeah.

The Trailblazers experience: 18:15

So that lesson about, as you get older, realizing that it's not always about you, so it wasn't really about you as a person in terms of you not getting the role You know it was. I understand you. I feel I've had that experience before where you haven't gotten that role, you haven't gotten that promotion, you haven't grown in that business And you think is there something wrong with me? Is it something I'm not doing? What skill set? you start researching, what did the other person have? But it's not, it's not about you. Yeah, that takes maturity, growth, the courage to accept yourself and appreciate also what your skill sets are and what you offer at that time. And sometimes, if you're a spiritual person, what's not for you at that time is not for you. Yeah, but that takes a lot of growth, isn't it?

Talia: 19:03

Oh, so much, like I said so much, and being able to track that growth. Look back at myself and kind of laugh and say like, oh my gosh, i can't believe how I acted. That was so crazy. Yeah, it's been really it's been a lot. And you have to realize how much of that was was me, was it wasn't anyone else? So it was so easy to point the figure at the time and blame others, but really it was me.

The Trailblazers experience: 19:29

Talk to me about amazing women in e-commerce, how you came up with the concept, the idea, what it is and what your mission is.

Talia: 19:37

Sure, So amazing women in e-commerce is a program to highlight, honor and acknowledge amazing women working in our industry. Every year we collect nominations from the entire e-commerce community. We get thousands of nominations. The best part of my job is reading through those where people nominate the women that they work with. From those nominations We choose. It's not. It's not the same every year.

Talia: 20:01

I think we've actually tried to grow it every year but let's say, around 20 women to honor and profile on our site. And the best part of the project is, for every nomination we get, we donate money to a charity because it's originally a US focused project. Most of that money has gone to Girls Inc, which is a US charity that works with girls to kind of give them skills for later in life and hopefully kind of build up the next generation of amazing women in e-commerce. In the UK we work with Girls Network, which is a mentorship program kind of does something similar And yet to date, since we started it, we've raised wait. I actually literally just asked someone for this number. I don't want to quote you correctly. Yeah, we've just passed donating $150,000 to these charities.

The Trailblazers experience: 20:47

I mean, that's amazing. If that's a milestone to begin with, what drove you to even start this or come up with the concept? Because I know a lot of women have got ideas in their head or they're writing it down or they've got mood boards or they're manifesting things But the fact that you've actually put it into action what advice would you give to someone who's thinking of doing something similar? Because I think it's brilliant And also, secondly, for the men who might be listening. They'll say well, why women Why not?

Talia: 21:22

I don't want to exactly Why not. That would be my answer to that question And I came up with it because we Okay, i'll start with the personal. I wanted to do something meaningful and I felt like I love my job so much, i love what I do. But I thought is there a way to combine what I'm doing marketing Yopo with doing something great and outside of Yopo, which would be raising money for charity? So it kind of started from there and also acknowledging women, of course, like honoring women at the space Organically.

Talia: 21:54

I remember at the time, within the company, this was like the time of the DTC explosion, so companies like Glossier and Away Travel were just coming up and really big And those were all women-led companies And so all the women in the marketing team would be sending each other. It's like, oh my God, this is women-led. Look at this woman, look at this woman. We start to understand like there is a. I mean, it's not a perception, it's a reality. That's kind of tech is not. It's a male-dominated industry, but we kind of found this pocket within tech, of e-commerce, that was actually Seemed to be like a lot of the leaders, a lot of the success stories were women. We would. Of course, i would always meet in my job like Yopo clients and things that were amazing women, and it started with this idea of if I can interview these women, they'll be very, very interesting interviews, and that was just like a feeling. That was just like a gut. All I can say is a gut feeling And I'll say that this is where I get to someone else starting this project.

Talia: 22:53

The first two people that I share this with, which were two close friends of mine, told me that it was a terrible idea. They were working at Yopo. They were like friends of mine on the marketing team, and I went to them and I said I have this idea for this thing I want to do, and they both said What was a man, what was a woman, i should say? And they both said this is an awful idea, like, don't do it And why? They said who cares? No one's going to care about this. Who was Yopo to say? They just thought it was a bad idea. They just really they didn't understand. And I was sitting there thinking, how can you not see this? How good this is, because I knew at the time like it was going to be something that the community really wanted, right, i knew that people were going to respond to this And thank goodness, thank goodness I didn't listen to them because I would have right, like and I think that's a you know, speaking of problems and challenges that I faced this need for external validation, and like having someone tell me that's a good idea, even if I know it is like it's something I'm really challenged by. So, thank goodness I didn't listen to them And I kept pushing and I did this thing of like getting internal buy-in and kind of talking to a couple of people in the org and saying, what do you think of this, what do you think of this?

Talia: 24:00

And like getting that buy-in and enough people getting interested in it. And then what I did was I actually created an entire marketing planning framework to push this idea through, because there wasn't a way really I didn't know how I was going to go to my boss and say let's do this idea, let's donate thousands of dollars to charity. You know, i couldn't. I didn't know if I could sell it that way. So I actually went to my boss and I said let's do an ideation like a marketing hackathon where everybody can pitch creative ideas for marketing, and then we'll vote and pick the best ones, and I did that knowing that my idea would win. I was like, if I can do that, and then what can he say to me? What can anyone say to me, because we did this whole ideation and things like that.

The Trailblazers experience: 24:45

And so it was a way of being inclusive. Isn't saying I've got an idea, but let's let everybody else throw their own ideas in there and may the best woman, man, win. And if I win, brilliant. If not, then I'll know it's not for now, it's for later Or I need to find another way.

Talia: 25:01

Yeah, yeah, and I think and we did write we didn't just pick one idea, we picked a few ideas from there and we planned that way for ages. So, yeah, even though I said I created it for my idea, that was the way that we did our marketing, our creative marketing planning for a really long time And I actually recommend it. It's for certain organizations at certain sizes, but it was a. It was a great thing. We did that for, yeah, tons of quarters planning that way And and it was because I had done that internal groundwork of talking to a lot of people and getting a lot of buy-in early on, that I knew, okay, enough people like this that they will vote for this idea and they'll push it through. And that's what happened. By the time I was presenting the idea, there was already a bunch of people who were excited by it, and so it was thanks to those women that that this even happened. It was having that network of women that, yeah, that helped this happen. That was such a crucial part of it.

Talia: 25:58

And so I think back to your question of what, what advice would I give to somebody? you know this project was easy. You know that's saying like if you, if you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life. This project was easy because I just I mean it wasn't easy, but it was easy because I loved it so much and I believed in it. So if you can find something that you love and believe in And find a way to make that happen. And it made business sense right It had to pitch a business case for why it made sense for us to do this right. It broadened our network. It's great for brand awareness. It helps us be a part of these conversations Like find a way to smartly, you know, organize your interests, what you're passionate about, with your job's interests, or something that makes sense commercially for you, and then, yeah, run with it. Don't let people tell you it's a bad idea if you know it's something good.

The Trailblazers experience: 26:47

Yeah, and essentially you're talking the talk. You know, a lot of organizations say they want to be inclusive, say they want to amplify women, say they want to empower women and give back, but it's all just a square. They're posting on Instagram or something for their marketing campaign And you're actually, you know, doing something about it and giving back. You know that money is going to help bring up a generation of women who are empowered, inspired, and I think that's great. And how long has it been going for? just for the audience to? I think since 2018.

Talia: 27:20

Wow, i think it's 2018 was the first year, maybe 2019.

Talia: 27:26

I can't remember.

Talia: 27:27

Yeah, yeah, but we've been doing, we've been collecting these nominations every year, and I think what that's what excites me the most about it is that every year, when we do the call for nominations which we do typically, i think, in October, it's such an exciting time, and what the team has done with it now, so that when you get a nominate, you know when we were first doing it, it was very basic, right, and so now it's like very exciting.

Talia: 27:54

When you get a nomination, you get an email telling you that you're nominated and you get like something you can post on social media and seeing those conversations happen is so fun. And the idea that people are having their day made I mean, i created the project and when someone nominates me, i'm so excited and happy, right, like I think it's so, it's so cool. And so the idea that, yeah, there's all these women out there that are having their day made by their colleagues acknowledging that And, even if it's like a really simple thing, it's just yeah, it's just my favorite thing I've ever worked on And, yeah, i'm immensely proud of it.

The Trailblazers experience: 28:29

As a trailblazer in industry. Talia, talk to me about the key people in your professional circle, even personal one, and how they add value to your life and influence you as a woman. Sure, the tribe Who's?

Talia: 28:43

your tribe. First of all, i can't, i would not be able to talk about this without talking about my current boss, my manager Yulia, who is the VP of Demand Gen at Yalpo. She is I'm going to tear up. She knows that I feel this way about her, so it's, i can just be totally embarrassing. Dushy, she's just one of the most amazing people I know. She is so fucking smart, but also so, so kind and cares so much about people.

Talia: 29:20

And I would say the biggest thing that I've learned from her, which is something I work on and struggle, going back to the challenges, something I work, i'm working on and that I struggle with, is like the value of giving really direct feedback, and that's something that she always does with me, and I think I think this is a woman thing, but I do think people of any gender can feel this way. Sometimes you feel it's unkind to give people feedback, when the reality, of course, is that the most unkind thing you can do is not give people that direct and valuable feedback if you have it. And so I think one of the things I've learned from her just from watching her do it with me is like the way to give people that feedback in a way that makes them better, that keeps them motivated and happy and not shy away from that, and that's something. That's a culture that she's really created on the team. That has really, i think, changed the team since she kind of took over a year or two ago, of a culture of direct feedback and accountability.

Talia: 30:19

And, yeah, we talk to each other about things And when there's something wrong, you should just go to that person and talk it out with them. Let them know has been really amazing. So she is a great member of my tribe. I have all my one of my oldest friends from high school, she we talk on text constantly, on WhatsApp constantly. I don't know if people do phone calls anymore. Do you talk to people on the phone, nathola?

The Trailblazers experience: 30:49

Well, it depends. So if there's a really long story that I just don't want to talk about on a voice note, or if I, it depends Two types of conversations where I'm spilling the tea with my girl and, like girl, i need to tell you this right now And I want her reactions and we're laughing. And or sometimes with my sisters, where they'll be doing something in the kitchen baking, cooking and we're having a conversation. Or I think WhatsApp conversations, i think are great because now you can use memes, now you can share, you can just be in the moment and engage with someone, which sometimes is easier because maybe you're in a, maybe you should not be doing this.

The Trailblazers experience: 31:31

You're in a meeting and you know you're, you're not feeling great about, you're not feeling great about the message that is there, and you send something to your best friend and say, oh, this day is just going to be a really long one, and they just send a meme. I mean it can just lift up your spirits in a way that maybe a phone call would have been. You know, you have to get out of the room, et cetera. So I think it's you need to find your communication style with your tribe If it's WhatsApp messages, if it's voice notes, if it's memes, if it's an actual FaceTime call, whatever works for you to get you engaged and communicate. You know, don't be a slave to tradition saying I have to pick up the phone and make a phone call, otherwise you never talk to anyone.

Talia: 32:12

Yeah, that's a good point. So, yeah, so, to that point I was going to say one of my oldest friends from high school. she called me her pen pal, or we call each other pen pals because we're just texts all the time. I would say I have a lot of pen pals that you know, one of my. it's so funny. One of my close friends yesterday was texting me and I bless her. She was driving me crazy, but it is the cutest and sweetest thing. She was like Talia, she, she. I had asked her a question about investing because she like invests. and then, you know, she was like, basically understood that I don't know anything about it. And she was like Talia, we got to get your finances in order, like, and she was sending me a list of things that she needs me to do, and she and she, i was like. so I was like, can you leave me alone right now? Like, please, but the idea that she cared enough to do it. she was like, okay, we are working on this right now, we are taking care of this.

The Trailblazers experience: 33:03

Are you doing a financial audit on you?

Talia: 33:04

Yeah, Yes, and was sending me and, and you know, asking questions and going back and forth And like those are the conversations that I have with with my girlfriends and with my yeah, with my tribe. I think another important person to mention from work is Ruthie Berber, who, who has taken over. I mean, was such an insurance apart of the first amazing women in e-commerce I'm creating those initial profiles and things like that but she really took it over. She runs the opposite community And so she's like now in charge of amazing women in e-commerce.

Talia: 33:34

So everything I said about how women now get an email, or the fact that we continue to raise money, because in that first year we gave 20 K, but the rest of the 150 K, that's all. Ruthie So creating the programming, running our Slack channel, all of that stuff. She's such a, such an incredible woman And she was someone who I texted right before this to say how much money have we raised. So, yeah, a lot of, a lot of the pen pals and, yeah, a lot of amazing women at Yoppo that I'm so lucky to work with.

The Trailblazers experience: 34:07

That's brilliant. Let's talk about work-life balance. So you're a mother, you're a wife, you're a friend. Yeah, you are a leader, a thought leader in your organization. How do you find time for you? and what does work balance mean to you? Because there's a definition. I mean many definitions out there on podcasts, books, etc. But what does it mean to you and how do you take care of you?

Talia: 34:35

Sure, thanks, Rhiannon, setting boundaries is so important. It is like I say one thing I have been good at in my job and I've seen friends and colleagues struggle with And, by the way, i've not always been good at it, i've certainly made mistakes but setting those boundaries like I do not, or very rarely take work meetings outside of work hours because that is my time with my kids, right, and I have blocked off from my calendar. this is something that's amazing at Yalpo, because many moms and dads have in their calendar kids pick up, right, like block off two hours picking up kids and like that's a weekly recurring thing, right, that happens three times a week or something like that, and that's in my calendar. like picking up kids, dropping off kids, that's in my calendar. I don't schedule then And yeah, i'm super open again like if somebody schedules something during my kids' time, like I'll say, hey, let's move in. I think sometimes people don't wanna do that. They feel like, especially women. they feel like, oh, they're gonna think you gotta do it. I mean, if it's important to you, you gotta do it. right, it's something that I do for myself.

Talia: 35:40

Another thing that I do, which gets sometimes get some funny stares, but both of my kids are. they're young my oldest is three and a half and my youngest is 16 months, so they're in nursery and nursery runs 51 weeks a year. So it's only off between Christmas and New Year's And they're too young or like we don't really wanna deal with traveling with them at this point. that seems really, really hard. So for the past few quarters what I've been doing is once a quarter I take a week off.

Talia: 36:11

I call it mom week. I stay in London. I don't go anywhere because I also don't wanna travel I'd be away from my kids yet And I just have a week to myself in London. I don't do life admin. that's like one of the rules of mom week. it's not a time to like, i don't know, do my taxes or dry cleaning or something, and I try to plan little adventures for myself within London. or also, if I feel like it just stay at home and like, sit on the couch and read all day And that has become such an important part of my life And it's so revitalizing, i come back from that like just really, really energized And so, yeah, i think that and that's something like where people say oh, where are you going for your holiday?

The Trailblazers experience: 36:55

And I say oh, i'm just staying in London.

Talia: 36:58

I get some funny looks, but it's been so important and something I really enjoy.

The Trailblazers experience: 37:03

Yeah, but that's so empowering. I mean, let's normalize not having a holiday and having to go somewhere. There's so much pressure where people are saying, well, where are you actually going on holiday? Well, i'm spending time with me. Oh, so you're gonna do a bit of renovation around the house, i got? no, i'm just I'm gonna spend time and take time for me. And, yeah, taking holiday when your kids are in school or in nursery brilliant, that's like you need to own that. Otherwise, how do you get back to you your core values, things that matter to you, and how can you be the best version of yourself or your partner or your friends, and operate excellence at work? So, yeah, let's normalize that Taking time for you and you don't have to go anywhere out of your burrow to do so.

Talia: 37:51

Yeah, I really really recommend it.

The Trailblazers experience: 37:53

Yeah, what are some of your core values and ethics? I think I've been hearing a few things permeate or come to the top. Tell me about them. What are core values, ethics, things that drive you, steer you?

Talia: 38:05

I'm curious what do you think that you've heard, or what are your? I don't have an answer, so I'm gonna steal. You don't have to tell me what you think.

The Trailblazers experience: 38:13

I know well, i'm sort of hearing things about. I think you are loyal, you're dedicated to people, you invest in people, invest in your team. You want to be involved in worthy causes. I can see you taking notes there.

Talia: 38:32

I'm just writing down what am I gonna say?

The Trailblazers experience: 38:35

Yeah, this is me just out to listening. I think those are some of the things that are calling out to me as I listen, but you might say well, my core value is something else. I don't know.

Talia: 38:47

I think you've definitely yeah, you've picked up lots of stuff. You're really good at this, antela. You've definitely picked up on some stuff that I don't know if I would have said. I think for me it's a blessing and a curse. I can be extreme, like I'm in or I'm out, i love you or I hate you I could and I think that that, like I said, there's upsides and downsides to that. But actually what's really the most important, and probably something core I hope is core to me is this idea of like a growth mindset And actually, even if I do feel on one extreme, i can change, i know I can change if I want to change, or I know like something.

Talia: 39:32

I'll give an example the other day we met a candidate for a role and on the initial meeting they were in my cup of tea but other people said no, no, no, this was a great candidate and things like that. And so I had a second meeting and I fell in love with this candidate. I mean fell in love like absolutely. It was like, wow, hire this person right away, like we should bring them on. And my manager, julia, said to me I love that about you, i love that you can do that And I said I mean, i guess it's not something I put effort into, but I am open to that happening for sure. And yeah, i've seen it in myself. I've changed so much, like in small and big ways, and I think that everyone can. And so, yeah, hard to pin one thing down, because I guess I'm saying yeah, can always change.

The Trailblazers experience: 40:22

Yeah, yeah, what valuable lessons. So, talking about valuable lessons that people and relationships and connections bring to you, what are some valuable lessons that you've learned And what have they taught you in your journey career journey, personal journey- My mom is a brilliant woman I should have said my mom when I talked about my tribe And she has some great nuggets of wisdom.

Talia: 40:51

One thing that she told me that I find very comforting is if something's meant to be yours, it'll be yours, and that's something that I have to remind myself, but it's something that I really believe in And I guess it has to do sort of with, maybe fate and destiny as well, which I also believe in, but you obviously have to work hard for things and fight for things when you want them, but also understand that if it's meant to be yours, it'll be yours, and if it's not yours, then it wasn't meant to be.

Talia: 41:26

That's key. Another piece of advice from my mom is you can be one of the people that's freaking out or you can be one of the people that's helping the people that are freaking out. That's your choice, and I've been both of those things. It's not to say I'm always the one helping, but I think that idea that you can control right Your response and things like that, and you can choose to take something that might be scary or hard and choose to kind of find the strength in that And, instead of focusing on your own shit. Look for, oh, i can actually help somebody else. That becomes a way of helping yourself.

The Trailblazers experience: 42:06

Yeah, your mother's so right about if something's meant to be to be. I'm struggling with that in terms of relationships or personal ones, and I think it's a good one to have, because before I thought, oh, this relationship hasn't worked out because it's because of me, but actually it wasn't meant to be. That person is not for you, and similar with a job, with a promotion, with this, you need to take a step back and say this is not for you, let it go and keep it moving. Is they strengthen that? because most of the time, we're just in the moment and thinking of everything that you could have done to make things work.

The Trailblazers experience: 42:47

And the thing about intentional luck, it's said fate is one of those things, but sometimes positioning yourself, aligning the dominoes so that when it drops it lands in the way you want to, and it might be little drops of things in your life each year, each month. After five years, you'd be like, right now I understand what the intention between all these learnings were. So it's a really big thing And it's comforting, but, yeah, when your kids are teenagers, it throws it all out the window, because you're like, oh my goodness, they're testing me on all these levels.

Talia: 43:23

Oh my gosh, I was hoping it was gonna get easier the older they got.

The Trailblazers experience: 43:27

Yeah, i think for me it's understanding now my son's a young adult is that they can now make their own choices and I have to respect that. That's been very hard, but that's part of the right of passage, of him becoming a young man.

Talia: 43:41

So that's been tough. If you're doing that, it sounds like you're a great mom, because I don't think that. What do moms do? that and understand that.

The Trailblazers experience: 43:52

So it's tough but, yeah, worthy of doing, based on your experiences. So what advice would you give to the audience And we're coming down to you know, trailblazer takeaways, lessons you've learned along the way, your highs and lows What advice would you give to some young lady woman out there listening?

Talia: 44:18

Like so many pieces of advice. One thing my boss said to me like pretty recently she noticed that I was sort of like hesitating in certain meetings, like I wasn't contributing, and it was like it was very dependent on who was in the room, right? So let's say like if it was a meeting with like more senior people in the room, i would be a lot quieter And I would write to her and I would say, oh, you know, i didn't understand that. Or what do you think this meant? Or did you know, did they mean this and this? And she would say, just ask why are you asking me? Ask you know what I mean? I'm writing her on Slack on the side.

Talia: 44:59

She's, you know, asked a question. Or the classic thing is you have this question, you think, oh, i'm not going to say it, i sound stupid. And then somebody else asked the question and I'm really, oh, good question. And you say, oh, i had a moment. And so something she said to me is like the cost of not asking the question is greater than the cost of asking it and maybe looking a little stupid. Always ask the question, always, always ask the question.

Talia: 45:20

I think that is, you know. That can be put into so many different forms. But I think part of that is like, like, go ahead and make mistakes Like it's okay. It's okay to look stupid, like we talked about I think it was maybe before we were recording but there's a lot of value in making mistakes and you're allowed to make mistakes And often you know you look at someone else and you think, well, they made a mistake and they're not an idiot, but if I make a mistake, i'm an idiot.

Talia: 45:52

And so having that awareness that it's okay that no one's looking at you that closely, that no one cares about you that much, that they're looking at every little mistake and tracking it Yeah, and also I think this is so cheesy, but like having like practicing gratitude is so is like so crucial and it's been such a game changer for me. And even you know, when I talked earlier about, oh, you know, when I was upset and I thought, why didn't I get that promotion? And for so long I was mad about getting a promotion, and then, when I was able to do that, switch and think, wait, what are the things that I have that are really great? instead of that, focus on what I didn't get and what I don't have. Those are, yeah, those are just like a bunch of pieces of advice I would say to younger me and I hope would help, like a younger someone else or anyone of any age.

The Trailblazers experience: 46:48

Yeah, that's amazing. Always ask the question. That's a really good one. Yeah, i wanted to touch on mentor mentorship, but I think through the amazing Women in Ecommerce platform, there is the Girls Network or Girls Inc, that does provide mentorship. Have you ever had a mentor and how important is that to you?

Talia: 47:07

Yeah, i had a mentor at Yoppo. He's since left Yoppo and I guess, like he said, he would still be my mentor, but I think at that time and place it was great to have access to him at the company. It was somebody called Casey Burtwell who was our SVP sales at the time. Such a great guy. I absolutely love him to bits And he what was.

Talia: 47:29

So I think at that time in my career I wanted a mentor. I didn't know what a mentor was, right, kind of like I wanted to start off, you can see maybe, a theme. I wanted a mentor. I didn't know what it was My colleague at the time. I spoke to another colleague and I said, wow, you know, it would be so cool to have Casey as a mentor, But I, you know, i couldn't ask him. I'd be too embarrassed. And that colleague went and asked Casey for me I'm well enough thinking about it And Casey got in touch and said I would love to be your mentor And I kind of said, okay, great, let's have our first meeting. And I sat there and I said you know, sitting here waiting Tell me everything.

The Trailblazers experience: 48:03

What is the meaning of life?

Talia: 48:05

Yeah, like do you know writing with life, with my pen, taking notes, and he was like, okay, so what do you want to get out of this? And I was like what do I want to get out of it? What do you mean? Just tell me things, you know what. And he was very clear And because he also is a very experienced mentor, so, right, i wasn't the first person he's done this with that He was like you have to drive the bus. What do you want? What do you get? And even that conversation, having that conversation about what I want, which at the time, i was so focused on a title I was like I want this title And he was like that's not a thing to want, like that's just a word, you know, and to have this idea of what, what do you want.

Talia: 48:44

He recommended this book to me Designing Your Life. That like talks about sort of what are the things you know, challenging you, what are the things that are important to you? not what's the you know, what do you want to be, what are the things that are important to you, that you want to have as being a part of your life? And so that was a that was a really fruitful and amazing relationship. And then I have mentored like I gotta say informally mentored like some people, some women at work, something I really like doing, and I have brought the same energy that Casey taught me, which is like what do you?

Talia: 49:16

you know, it's funny because I think, especially for me, if someone comes to me and they're like can you give me advice, i would be like sure, and just like go, you know what I mean, and they wouldn't have to tell me advice on why, like who, why no, i'd be like yup, take some notes, and so to have that approach of saying, okay, what do you want advice on, what do you want to do, and let's work on what you want to accomplish, versus just like you know, putting my opinions all on somebody Was that was the energy I've tried to bring through those relationships. So, yeah, it's been. I really recommend it. I think at this point in my career or like it's not about my career, it's just at this point in my life it's like not something that I'm really looking for, but I could definitely see myself wanting it again in the future.

The Trailblazers experience: 49:58

Yeah, but that's really a good tip to throw out there saying, before you seek out a mentor, you need to, even if it's writing it down What's your why? what's important to you? What are you trying? how are you trying to design your life? I think is key because once you get that opportunity, it's like no, what's it going to bring to you in the long term? So that's interesting. What's next for Talia? I mean, we've talked about a few things pre-podcast. You want to touch on those What's?

Talia: 50:28

Oh man, you're putting me on the spot. Yeah, i am putting together a podcast. I'm staying tuned, i'm still. Yeah, maybe you're going to hear Ntola on my podcast, hopefully. And what's next? I mean I'm going. Yeah, in December it's going to be 10 years at Yoppo, which is so crazy, such a crazy milestone for me and I think, in general in the tech business, and it's just always new challenges. I guess I should say it's another thing that kept me here, and I'd even talked about my transition from being a running a content team to now running a demand-gen team. It's like constant new challenges and the thing is I kind of don't know what the challenge will be in two months, and that's what makes it fun. So no specific plans, i guess, but I'm super excited to see what the future holds and sort of what will be the next problem to solve, next thing to take on.

The Trailblazers experience: 51:23

Talia, this has been brilliant. I mean, you are an amazing woman in e-commerce yourself. You're a trailblazer, and it's really good and refreshing to have conversations with women in the industry. You've been in the same business for a very long time, so that's also a good thing to be able to stand tall. You started with a startup and just your lessons along the way will hopefully inspire someone out there listening to the podcast. So thank you very much.

Talia: 51:54

Thank you so much, Natola. You are an amazing woman in e-commerce and it was very. You're a great interviewer. It was nice to be on the other side and being interviewed by you this time. So, yeah, thank you so much.

The Trailblazers experience: 52:05

Brilliant. So for everyone listening, this has been the Trailblazers Experience podcast. We are on all streaming platforms and we've also joined threads. So please follow, let's engage, let's expand the conversation and hopefully we can bring more amazing Trailblazers to the Trailblazers Experience podcast. Thank you so much, Talia. Bye. Thank you, Ntola.

Talia: 52:29

Thank you.