EP50 Ellen Harkin : Transforming an Environmental Science Degree into Global Product Leadership at Lego

What does it take to pivot from a degree in environmental science to becoming a Global Product Manager at the Lego Group? Our guest Ellen shares her remarkable journey from the west of Ireland to leading global product initiatives at one of the most iconic brands in the world. Discover how Ellen transitioned from her initial ambition of teaching to navigating the complexities of business operations, quality management, and procurement, which all culminated in a pivotal role at Farfetch during the tumultuous onset of the pandemic

Chapters

0:12 Career Journey of Global Product Manager

12:08 Navigating Challenges and Achievements With Neurodiversity

21:09  Navigating Social Situations and Networking

25:41  Building Connections and Empowering Women

34:54  Empowering Women in Logistics

39:44 Self-Care and Work-Life Balance

46:08  Sustainability and Career Ambitions

48:46  Trailblazer takeaway tips

Join us as Ellen opens up about the unique challenges and unexpected achievements throughout her career, particularly through the lens of neurodiversity. Learn how quick decision-making and strategic problem-solving during the pandemic accelerated her professional growth and led to significant milestones like a successful packaging change at Farfetch that improved customer experience and bolstered sustainability. Ellen's journey underscores the importance of leadership, self-awareness, and creating long-term value in one's work.

From effective networking strategies within the retail industry to maintaining a healthy work-life balance, Ellen provides invaluable insights and practical advice. She emphasizes the importance of mentorship, structured networking events, and self-care strategies, such as the concept of a "fake commute." Ellen also shares her passion for sustainability and offers actionable tips for applying to roles, celebrating achievements, and redefining success. Tune in to be inspired by Ellen's experiences and the lessons she has learned along the way.

Find Ellen Harkin
Ellen Harkin | LinkedIn 

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Transcript

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 0:12

So welcome to another episode of the Trailblazers Experience podcast, the podcast where we have candid conversations with women sharing their amazing career journeys. My next guest is Ellen, who's the Global Product Manager at the Lego Group. We all love Lego and I'm really excited to have Ellen here today to tell her story, because we met at a dinner, isn't it, ellen? How are you?

Ellen Harkin : 0:38

Yeah, that's right. We met at a dinner a few weeks ago. It was so nice to connect. I think we matched over our glasses game recognized game and the glasses.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 0:47

I see you, I see you, I'm good. Thank you, how are you? I'm all right, I'm all right. And, by the way, so which? Which I mean? I'm wearing Tom Ford's. What are you wearing? Glasses, wise.

Ellen Harkin : 0:57

I am wearing these are called furmoo. It's an online service. It nuts.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 1:02

It seems like it shouldn't work, but I have to match all of my glasses to my outfit, so I need to have you know multiple pairs yes, so do you just put in your prescription and then really good pricing so you can have different colors, different this and that, exactly right.

Ellen Harkin : 1:19

Yeah, so they've got like a virtual try on that I use. I know that I've got the widest face. Also. They've got like a virtual try on that I use. I know that I've got the widest face, so I look for the widest lenses and then we go from there.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 1:29

Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, my goodness. And, by the way, audience, we're not being sponsored or paid by. We're just, you know, sharing, sharing tips of where we can get um affordable frames as well. So that's always good, definitely. Well, let's start really from the beginning, because you know, I always looked at people's LinkedIn profiles or you look at what you see, or you see someone's title and you say how did they get there? So let's just really go all the way back and just talk to me about your early years in your career journey and just about what's actually led you to this point in reflection.

Ellen Harkin : 2:02

So it's definitely been a journey. I would say that I'm from the west of Ireland. I'm from Sligo, from the west of Ireland, where, when I was growing up, things had certainly progressed from you're a woman so you're going to be a nurse or a teacher. We had gotten a little bit past that, but definitely people still were talking about very tangible careers like being a doctor, being a teacher, being a lawyer. So my go-to was I was going to be a teacher. I did a degree in environmental science in order to do so. So I wanted to be a geography teacher and an agricultural science teacher and for anyone who doesn't know what agricultural science is, it's exactly what it sounds like it's the science of being a farmer. And at the time I did kind of seek information from one of my teachers to say, well, what did you do at university? How did you get here? And he said I did environmental science. You shouldn't do that, you won't like it. But the easiest way to get me to do something is to tell me don't do it. So obviously I was like well, I'm going to do environmental science. And he was right, I didn't like it.

Ellen Harkin : 3:12

But that was my degree and when I finished, I think there was certainly an absence of those corporate roles that you see today around sustainability, around kind of that circular business operation. So you very much were going either for really, really competitive rules within corporate organizations that looked like that or you were going to be an actual scientist, like you were in the river, you were in the lab. Neither of which appealed to me. So I went back to the drawing board a little bit. What that culminated in, I think, was me landing as an operations administrator in a business which was a small business. Definitely wasn't going to be long term, but I think it was definitely an entry point for me to say, oh, this is like an interesting avenue that I didn't even really know existed. This is an interesting sort of career that I could build around, something that makes sense to me. So, just like, how does the business operate? How are we getting things where they should be? Is there a way that all of this is written down? Is there a way that everyone is following the same process? That all really made sense to me.

Ellen Harkin : 4:20

So I thought, okay, operations, this is the safe space for me, and from there I kind of into. So I did a little bit of time in quality management. I did some time in procurement and pricing, all for a distributor, so kind of still within the realm of business operations and I came to, I think, just about my three-year anniversary of that, which is when I joined Farfetch, about my three-year anniversary of that which is when I joined Farfetch. So I went fully back into operations management and project management for Farfetch, where I stayed for three and a half years Three and a half really good years.

Ellen Harkin : 4:55

And going into Farfetch, I knew that it was going to be a very steep learning curve. From where I had been, I'd probably just I'd say, got my feet under the table and thought to myself, yeah, I know what I'm doing here, this is okay, this is groovy. And then suddenly it was March 2020, and it was COVID. And then nobody knew what they were doing and it was hi, how are we going to keep the doors open? How can we keep servicing these customers? How can we keep everything on an even keel?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 5:22

It challenging, I was gonna say, from the environmental science journey where I'm sure there were lots of transferable skills which have sort of helped you in the operations and fulfillment um sphere attention to detail, understanding process, understanding something from a to b but now landing at farf, which is a tech company that was doing fashion I mean, and then COVID, where obviously everyone was at home who had copious amounts of money just ordering things they didn't need or ordering things they needed to escape to other countries where there was no lockdown. How do you navigate, even being in that space?

Ellen Harkin : 6:03

It was definitely very challenging, but I think I'm always sort of the person that doesn't really realize the building is burning down until the end.

Ellen Harkin : 6:12

I'm like this is fine as long as we can get one foot in front of the other. We can kind of keep this moving. And, like you say, there were, you know, customers were sitting at home. They still had birthdays, they still had anniversaries, like all of us. They still thought, oh, when this is over, I'm going to take up surfing. And so they were still making those purchases and luckily we had a really fantastic team behind us that helped us to facilitate a lot of those changes.

Ellen Harkin : 6:39

But it was a huge amount of change over the course of 18 months. So within that, I think I kind of took on I'm a big side mission girl. That's like very much what I'm all about is taking on all of these little side projects. So I started to take on, you know, bits and pieces outside of the J2C running of the operation, looking at our e-commerce packaging example. So was there a way that we could make that more sustainable and still really maintain that luxury feel, that luxury experience for customers? We opened warehouses, we closed warehouses, we moved stock around and I think while we were sort of in virtual meetings, brexit happened as well. So we talked a lot about how we were doing that. Is there a more intelligent and more sustainable and more cost-effective way of getting our stock where it needs to be or having it in the right place. To begin with. And all of that was chaos, but in the best way. I absolutely loved it.

Ellen Harkin : 7:40

But it kind of came to the point at which I said, okay, I've learned. I think all I'm going to learn definitely was a baptism of fire, but I got there and so I looked for a new role and I think this role at the mega group came up. It was just exactly the right time. I'd heard the white role at the right time. It had some specific initiatives, like like channel growth, that I had worked on within Farfetch. So I thought, yeah, okay, this aligns quite nicely with my experience.

Ellen Harkin : 8:12

But obviously, coming from where I was a project manager at Farfetch into what was then the global e-commerce operations manager at a legal group, it's quite a gap. But I was like, okay, okay, let me just send an application, let's see what happens. What's the worst? They're going to say it's going to be a no. And then, sure enough, they came back to me. I was delighted to even have an interview and I think as soon as I started to have that conversation with them, I kind of found that this was the right place for me. It was the right culture. It was the right. It was looking at the right things in terms of what I wanted to do next in my career and I think I had the right experience to offer them and in return, just in hindsight.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 8:54

So obviously you were at Farfetch and would you say you actively sought projects to to get involved in, because a lot of it, when I'm talking to women who've had more experience in their career, they're saying you have to put yourself out there, you can't wait for the opportunity to come to you. So was it one of those where you saw some projects happening and you said actually, hi, I stand out, I love these kinds of things. Or was it you were thrown into it and you just took it as it came?

Ellen Harkin : 9:22

I think it was probably 50-50. To be honest, at Parfetch there was a very entrepreneurial spirit with it being kind of we were just coming out of that startup mentality. We're going into a little bit of a bigger organization. So there was still a lot of opportunity for me personally to say, hey, this seems like a good idea and a good opportunity. Can I run with this? Hey, this seems like a good idea and a good opportunity, can I run with it? But similarly, I think my certainly my leadership recognized it in me as well and would pass the ball back, I think, when they would have conversations with other areas of the business to say, oh, we're looking for someone to represent that though, we've got just the girl. She only does strange projects that are seemingly unrelated.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 10:05

There's always one who's saying would you be interested in this? In the room and someone's lifting up their hand saying I'd love to take that on. But I guess that's how you grow and mature and, you know, develop your toolkit of skills that you are now utilizing at the lego group and you know it's not a fashion brand. However, you've found a business from what you've just said, where your skills and experiences align, but also the direction they're going as a business is aligned with what you'd love to do as well.

Ellen Harkin : 10:35

Absolutely, and I think there's all of these projects. At the time I'm thinking how am I going to turn this into anything? How am I going to turn this into a learning experience? How am I going to turn this into anything? How am I going to turn this into a learning experience? But I think even the most nebulous connection that I can come up with has always come back around at some point or other. There has always been an opportunity for someone to say how should the choir go on? This time we're being legal. Do you know what? Actually, I know, so I've got a piece of information, and so I do think that all of these little side projects that I've been taking on have all contributed to a really random but really well-rounded mix of experience and skills, which makes me, I think, a little bit of a unique concept when it comes to looking for her next role.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 11:19

Yeah, I remember when I was, uh, working predominantly in the fashion industry and we had to um, sign off trade show stands and what size and working with a very good friend of mine who's in VM and she was teaching me all these things. She was like so what do the fixtures need to look like? What's the square footage, what you know, what do we need in terms of assets? Is it MDF, is it? And I'm just looking, wow, all of these things that I did not know that actually now I'm utilizing them in ways in my own, you know, renovating a home. So if someone was to say, right, we're going to a trade show, I understand what you know a shell scheme is, or something that you have to build yourself. It's all those things you know. You connect the dots afterwards, not while you're, you know, actually doing the do as they say.

Ellen Harkin : 12:06

Yeah exactly, and afterwards not while you're, you know, actually doing the do as they say yeah exactly. And that's what I love about it is kind of putting together, looking back and sitting back and saying, okay, I can see how all of those knit together so throughout your career, you must have had some challenges that you've encountered.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 12:18

Um, is there a particular you know scenario that you love to describe them? What do you think are the things that helped Ellen in in the back of her mind and had to say, okay, I'm going through this and this is how I've gotten over the other side?

Ellen Harkin : 12:32

definitely, I like I can think of countless challenges, particularly when we look at that period of COVID where everything was new. No one really knew the answers as to how we were going to get it, so it was an opportunity to kind of take a punt on quite a lot. Um, in terms of how I navigate challenges, I think it can be a little bit chaotic. I'll be totally transparent. I very much am a case of okay, we can only know as much as we can know. So I've been known and I have to often warn my team that this is how I do things is I just do quick fire questions to understand what do we know right now, what's our current status and how can we take in as much of that information and put it together in as cohesive a way as possible and then just sit and take 10 minutes to digest all of that, which I have been known to freak people out for going yes, okay, but can you get there a little bit quicker? I'm going no, I need the full 10 minutes to sit and just kind of digest. And in the moment, I think that's the easiest thing that we can do is to have all of the information that's available to us and make a decision based on that, and I think that make a decision and go is another key aspect of how I manage things and how I operate.

Ellen Harkin : 13:47

I'm not necessarily someone who can kind of take all of this information that I go to.

Ellen Harkin : 13:52

You know this person and this person and this person. We get eight people all to come up with their thoughts on the matter and come up with a consensus. I'm very much driven by my thoughts. I will just say, look, this is what we're working on, let's go for it, let's try this and we'll see what happens. And it's either going to work and in which case great, we've got away with it or it's not, in which case we're going to learn from that and readjust what we can do. But I think having those really open lines of communication when you are in a challenging environment is absolutely key, and having those really strong relationships with the people that you're working with, so that there's no fear of saying we're not sure this is going to go right or oh, this is, this has already gone wrong and we don't know what to do about it. We just want to know what is the status and we can go for a new can based on that, but we can't do anything with what we do and also something about you know.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 14:45

Everything is a choice, isn't it? You make a decision and there will be an outcome and it was a choice to make that decision. I guess the thing about leadership and leading teams or being in different positions is actually then acknowledging okay, I'm going to accept that this is the decision we've made and the outcome we'll do. We understand.

Ellen Harkin : 15:05

You know what the risks, what the challenges are, what the opportunities and being able to live with the results at the end is is really key exactly yeah, and I think, no matter what like we can have conversations till the cows come home, we can digest all of the possible things that could happen based on a decision. But I think and I've experienced it quite a lot across the course of my career even if you're in a smaller group of, say, two or three people who are trying to make a decision, most of you know from kind of the first 15 minutes of getting all of the facts out, what is the right thing to do. So I often just think, look, we've made this decision based on the information that we have. We know the risk of what happens if it goes wrong and we have usually an idea of what we can do if it is going to go wrong. But I think we should just go and see what happens.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 15:56

I mean totally agree as well and on the flip side as well, are there any unexpected achievements? Because, girl, we're celebrating you in your career so far and I'm confident there's more to come in terms of what you're going to achieve what are some things that you're proud of so far?

Ellen Harkin : 16:13

I definitely think I've been kind of looking back and reflecting over the last couple of weeks. I try to do it semi-regularly but I have been not so glad I did it wait. But looking back over the last few weeks, I do think that the packaging change that I implemented at Farfetch was huge and I think at the time it was something that I started kind of the wheels in motion and then it happened and I saw it tangibly with my own two hands and went, okay, this is great. But even then it was six months before I got to sit back and think, actually, you know what I've just changed. The packaging has been received for one of our biggest boutiques.

Ellen Harkin : 16:49

I've just changed the experience that a lot of our customers repeat customers, very loyal customers are having on a day-to-day basis and, really importantly to me, I've just changed it in a way that makes this company more sustainable and makes what we're doing easier on the environment, which kind of can alleviate some of the pressure within the overall company, but also the pressure on yourself. I think everyone is always trying to do the best job that they can do, whether that be in terms of quality of their work or impact of their work and being able to look back at that and say this is a sustainable initiative, but it's going to be there for years to come.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 17:45

I mean, farfetch is going through a lot at the moment, so it'll be interesting to see how they come out the other side as well.

Ellen Harkin : 17:54

Definitely Well. I hope to see them still thriving in years to come. Certainly, I hope to see my packaging still come into my hands when I place an order through the door.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 18:09

It still gives me a little shiver now when I get it. So, ellen, you've openly shared that you have autism spectrum disorder. So we're talking about neurodiversity now, and some view I'm one of those that neurodiversity is a superpower, while others you know there are lots of naysayers out there have seen it as a challenge. How do you personally perceive your neurodiversity and how has that influenced your career journey?

Ellen Harkin : 18:27

Mine has been quite a challenge for me, I'll be totally honest. And so I was diagnosed as an adult with autism spectrum disorder. It was around this time, two years ago in fact, and I think it's probably taken me two years to really get my head around it. I was obviously aware, I think, in the way that we all are, of how having autism spectrum disorder can impact your day-to-day life and your routines and things like that. And I can remember when I was told this by a mental health professional, being horrified that she was telling me this news and just feeling like this is something that's so out of my control, this is something that's going to go on for the rest of my life that I'm going to have to manage. Um, but it really took me quite a long time to kind of come to terms with it. Um, in hindsight, the the thought that the control is what I went to straight away is absolutely laughable, because the control, I think, is how it manifests itself most prominently in my life and my father, who was never diagnosed but extremely likely to have autism in the same way. So you know when she said at home school and me, whose father is definitely autistic and his brother has been diagnosed with autism. You think me she was like, yes, you're joining the club, yeah. So I think once I recovered from that reaction, I did spend a lot of time reading about being diagnosed with some adults, about autism generally, about autism in women, and I think it really opened the door of saying to me Ellen, well, this is something that you were never going to have control over anyway and it's something that you were going to have forever anyway, but at least now you've got kind of more resources available to you to help you understand how you navigate the world and how you navigate, particularly when it comes to work, which has been really really helpful in different ways.

Ellen Harkin : 20:23

I think I've been seeing it. Certainly, I've seen the benefits and the downsides of it, and so, for example, there have been instances where someone has definitely been trying to kind of take me down to pay and that is just not registered at all with me. I'm like, well, they're just being helpful, they're trying to share helpful information instead of trying to be a little bit maybe passive, aggressive or trying to kind of put me back in my place, which is very I think I can. But also I think I'm seeing instances where I have been able to be more forthright and more honest and possibly a little bit overly brave when it comes to having conversations with senior leadership and having conversations with management, which has really helped to kind of progress that conversation.

Ellen Harkin : 21:09

As for kind of the superpower conversation, I see it both ways. So definitely there are extremely significant benefits in the way that I kind of process the world, in the way that I look at things. Similarly, there are downsides to that, so there are things that should be really straightforward. Like I'm extraordinarily challenging, like just recently I was speaking to. I have this wonderful group of friends. We're big huggers and only recently have I been like guys, this is we need to cut this out one per interaction, please. Like that's all I can manage and I think little things like that.

Ellen Harkin : 21:48

There are definitely things where, when you're networking, when you're in a business environment, are they go without saying for neurotypical people, but the neurodivergent in me is going crazy, like my brain is buzzing over. These should be simple things and so I think it does go both ways. But I have seen it certainly, and now that I'm starting to understand the way that I'm perceiving the world and the way that my brain is kind of operating a little bit better. I'm starting to see how I can leverage that and use that to my advantage, which has been a really exciting journey for me.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 22:22

I mean, ellen, it's. It's amazing. We we're all unique, we're all individuals. Everyone has got something different about them, and I think the difference is you have identified that and you've developed a high level of self-awareness and are then tapping into okay, this is what I'm good at. This is where I need more help, support, which is with any human being out there. There is no one that is 100% in some way, shape or form. So thank you for even sharing that and being vulnerable to share that story, because some people see it as something negative or something that they can't even talk about. But actually you need to embrace every part of your armor your armor and and who you are as an individual. That's really important absolutely.

Ellen Harkin : 23:09

I couldn't agree more and I think that's something that I've really started to lean into. Within kind of my work is being that full 100 myself as like, as cheesy as it sounds being your most authentic self, because I just think it's. Even there have been instances in the past where I've been masking or where I haven't necessarily brought my full self to the table, and it is exhausting, it's so tiring that you're able to put in, you know, 70% of yourself into your work and that is absolutely all you can give, because that other 30% is being used up trying to respond correctly in social situations and trying not to cry because someone shook your hand, whereas if you can bring that 100% of yourself to the table, it means that you're able to give so much more to your work and kind of throw yourself into it a lot more, which is what I found.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 24:03

So let's talk about social settings. So you know, we met at a networking event and networking plays, I think, a significant part, not just in career growth, but I think, just getting out there and speaking to other people who are in similar industries, sectors, and sometimes taking away the madness that you're what you're going through in your organization, others are going through too, or maybe they've come out the other side. How do you approach networking and do you see it as something important in your life as well?

Ellen Harkin : 24:35

Absolutely, I definitely. I think I'm in a much better position in terms of knowing different people in the industry, but also in terms of just knowing what's going on within the industry from having those conversations, than I was, you know, five or six years ago and my approach to networking has been a little bit slow to start, but I think I'm very much getting into it now. I am, contrastingly to what a lot of people think about autism I'm very confident and very outgoing, so I can go into most social settings and kind of get the ball rolling at the very least. My mother says that she doesn't know what she did with her three children to give us all of this confidence, but it frightens her as adults. But I think that's part of it and I will just go in and get the ball rolling and start having conversations because I've realized that anyone who's going to those networking events, or even if it is just that you meet someone sort of by chance and begin having a conversation with them, they're there to do the same thing. They're also looking to meet people. So no one is.

Ellen Harkin : 25:41

Well, there are an extraordinarily small number of exceptions.

Ellen Harkin : 25:46

I have yet to meet one. No one doesn't want to talk to you just because of who you are or because of what your position is within a company, and I think being able to start those conversations has been really valuable for me to understand what's going on a little bit better within the industry and within retail as a wider sort of conglomerate. A sort of key thing for me certainly has been to get involved in more formal networking groups. So, for example, you and I met at an internet retailing dinner, which has been really invaluable for me. So I think if anyone was starting and looking at how can I kind of branch out and how can I start networking a little bit better, I would say that's a really good place to start is looking for more formal networking groups within the business that you work in, within the sector that you work in, so that you can start to have those conversations. But maybe someone else is putting in a little bit of the work to get a little bit of structure before you go in.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 26:43

Yeah, I totally agree about going into events where there's a bit of structure to it, because I think I remember a few years ago my first ever networking event. It was where you showed up and they gave you badges and then you were supposed to start talking and I was like, what do I say? Do I run through my CV and people would talk about. They said, what university did you go to? And I was just like, oh my goodness, this is not me at all, whereas I appreciate where there's a bit of a structure, but also loose and realizing, actually you're just getting to know people and that is the first step. So you know, you're talking a bit about yourself, not divulging too much, but getting that conversation sort of icebreakers, isn't it? And then taking it from there as well, I think is a is a good approach.

Ellen Harkin : 27:29

But yeah, exactly, I love that and I think it's so nice to make those initial connections at a formal event like that and you can then see who are you going to have challenges in common with, who are you working on similar projects to, who works in a similar industry to you, so that you can start to then branch out and kind of deepen those connections. And then what I do personally is just do exactly that reach out and say, hey, it was so nice to meet you. It's really interesting to talk about this project work, this initiative that you're working on. I'd love to hear more, and you know I often think as well that I go with a little bit of a scattered approach because so few people have got time. I think at the moment particularly, I'm speaking to people in retail and everyone is underwater. So if they ask me, fantastic. If they don't, we'll catch up, I'm sure again in the future, but it's always worth it to reach out and make that initial connection afterwards. I think that's it the networking is.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 28:24

It's an ongoing process where you reach out and make that initial connection afterwards. I think that's it. The networking is an ongoing process where you reach out. You may have to reach out a few times. It might be you're just liking something that they posted that is in your industry, or you need to get in another event. It's something that builds up over time and that's sort of you building your tribe, your circle within your industry, isn't it where there's similar values, interests or projects that you're working on? It's a slow build, slow burn. Have you had mentors, so mentors who've influenced you in your path? How is that impacting your development, if any? Or are you saying, oh, Manintola, that's not for me. I don't believe in mentorship.

Ellen Harkin : 29:10

No, I do. I have a mentor at present, and so I actually heard Sarah Russell talking with you about mentorship and that it's difficult to know what you really want from a mentor, and I think that really really resonated with me. I've had mentors through formal company programs in the past and I really don't think that I knew what I was looking for or what they knew what they were looking for to get out of it, and so without that bit of direction, I think it didn't really catch fire. I then kind of started to progress a little bit in my career and I had started to attend networking events and started to kind of build up my network within retail, in the toy category, within fashion, when that's where I was and when I was making these connections and thinking to myself I really should buckle down and get myself a mentor and kind of do this the right way, which I was telling to one of my former colleagues, who very promptly pulled me up and said I'm already your mentor, so sure enough, annoyingly, as she always is, she was right. So I have had her by my side for the past probably two years.

Ellen Harkin : 30:17

I think what was missing for me in the past was in my head, there is no formula for if you do this and you do that, then you're going to become the head of where you're going to become a director, you're going to become the chief. So without that magic formula, I didn't really know what I was supposed to be looking for from a mentor and but with my current mentor, she's someone whose career and her inherent success as a result is fantastic and obviously extremely admirable. But I just think that what I really get from having her is the way that she conducts herself, so she really moves with the curve, as she's very transparent, she's very clear with her expectations and her communication and all of those skills that I'm not necessarily learning from someone else. I'm able to kind of love it her putting all of those and that I'm not necessarily learning from someone else. I'm able to kind of love at her putting all of those and putting her integrity at the forefront of her decision making and her actions.

Ellen Harkin : 31:14

I'll be able to say, okay, this is what I should be getting from a mentor being able to kind of emulate the way that she's doing business not necessarily the business that she's doing and I think it's just been really exciting to have someone like that because I think when I was younger there was a certain view, I think, of women who were at a certain level that were you kind of had to give up the fact that you were a woman and it was all a little bit hollow, you weren't necessarily a whole person, whereas she's a whole person who's got personality and a sense of humor and kids, but she's also operating at a really high level and doing so in a way that's really clear and really concise and really engaging, and I think that's what I really look for and that's what had been missing for me as a mentor in the past. So I'm hoping that I'm taking some of those skills and some of those traits from her and operating in my own business in that same way. But I hope she just continues to help me grow.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 32:20

But that's very interesting the traits, the characteristics, the principles, the foundation of what you want a mentor to be and bring to you. Because, going through it the other way and saying, actually I'm looking for a mentor who's gone through this career step head of director, et cetera no path is the same and it's actually it's the foundations that will get you to where you're going, and your mentor is, um, defining that as well. But you've also been able to clearly articulate what it is you're looking for as well yeah, definitely, and I think that took me a really long time to understand that.

Ellen Harkin : 33:01

I don't necessarily just want to talk to someone who's the CEO, because exactly that, like my own journey, has not been day-to-day, it's not what I expect, let alone kind of. When I look back at five years ago, I'm so understanding that if I'm putting in place the ways that I want to operate and putting in place the ways that I want to come across within the businesses that I'm in, that will help me to get to wherever it is that I need to go, not necessarily just by going director head of CEO. So I think that's been a really exciting revelation as well for me. To be honest, it took probably longer than it should have, but we got there in the end, you got there, and still more to come as well.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 33:44

Definitely, let's talk about women's empowerment and breaking barriers. So, as a woman in a leadership role, how do you champion women's empowerment, and what changes would you, ellen, like to see in the industry, because we've all faced, I'm sure, gender-related barriers, and if so, how did you navigate through them as well?

Ellen Harkin : 34:05

Sure. So for me personally, the gender-related barriers question I had to take a little bit of time on. I wonder if that is something that I just bypassed. I think probably people have been trying to impose those barriers on me, but because I just can't recognize those social nuances you're just bulldozing through.

Ellen Harkin : 34:25

Just good luck. Yeah, I'm just going right ahead, but I can see that there are, and having conversations with other women, I definitely know that there are challenges within the industry. If we look at supply chain, if we look at logistics but even going further, it's still looking at retail there's a certain expectation of where women plateau within that industry, which is just A absolutely false and B really crazy to try and perpetuate for the next generation. Um, so what I do is try to make time and I do make time, often at my own detriment to have conversations with women who are coming off.

Ellen Harkin : 35:03

So, whether that's looking at cvs, or whether that's discussing roles that could be right for them next, or how they're putting together their collection of achievements because I think as well, people can be quite critical of themselves and don't necessarily look back at their own achievements with the same glowing sort of vision that other people do.

Ellen Harkin : 35:26

So helping people to see know what you did there was fantastic, it was really cool, it brought in this element of it, brought in your management skills, and you were dealing with different stakeholders and helping people to see that the thing that they just achieved within their job was not just something to say, okay, great, that went fine, take that off and then we're on to the next one. But to be able to look at it with an outsider's perspective and have a little bit more excitement about some of your achievements, which will then obviously correspond to how you are communicating those within your own business or within a new business if you're looking for a new role, and so I think that's a huge part of what I do is just to make time to have those conversations with friends, with colleagues, colleagues, with peers, and I think in doing so I've become and one of my friends has very recently told me is the ultimate hype woman which is for me, go girl, we love that.

Ellen Harkin : 36:20

But I think for me that's such a compliment and such a goal that I want to be the person that can help people to see how excellent their own achievements have been and how amazing their journey has been so far and to make sure that they're not having sort of limiting beliefs about where it goes next, because that can quite often be the case, particularly within logistics and supply chain, for women is having conversations and they're saying, well, you know, like all this far is warehouse manager. That's probably where I stop when I'm going no, no, no, like let's go further, let's think bigger, and just kind of having within works of women, within, whether that be peers or employees, having those conversations to say where do you want to go? Like let's pretend that anything is absolutely possible, where do you want to go next and how can we facilitate?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 37:07

that happening. I think that's so amazing to be a champion and cheerleader for other women, especially in the sector. I was at an event last week where actually a woman was talking about supply chain and operations and how it's very male dominated, and one of the responses she got is you have to find other events or other women who are not in the same company, who they do exist. I mean there's you, there are a few others I could name as well and just share best practice or find your tribe within that industry where you can champion each other and celebrate each other's accomplishments and then also know this is actually the direction my career can go, because when you're insulated within your day-to-day you, you don't see the possibilities, isn't it because you're just getting the job done, getting through the next project and being able to have someone else see the value and the opportunity that you could achieve within your career and moving forward, I think is so important. Exactly, I think that's a huge within your career and moving forward, I think is so important.

Ellen Harkin : 38:10

Exactly. I think that's a huge part of it, and certainly I had women when I was kind of starting out in logistics and distribution modeling that for me to say this could be somewhere where actually I go really far, where I build my career within logistics and supply chain, which isn't often offered as an option, to be quite transparent, and I know that within that I've had women that have worked in warehouses for me that, as soon as I met them, have been like okay, you are gonna be the big boss here. This is a big, exciting opportunity for you to really take the reins on something that has been so male dominated for such a long time but that you have such an affinity for. I think it's just helping to get that visibility of those options and those opportunities out there, which is what certainly I've been trying to over the last couple of years and also big up to all the women working in logistics, supply chain and distribution.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 39:05

I have worked with so many and they're the ones who actually get the product to the customers.

Ellen Harkin : 39:11

I don't want to take all the credit, but they are the ones getting the stuff done. The women in our houses are running the whole show.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 39:18

Yeah, let's talk about self-care and work-life balance, or just balance, according to Ellen. We know, and we've been told, that balancing your personal life stress levels is crucial. You know you have to take care of you first. What rituals or practices keeps you grounded, ellen?

Ellen Harkin : 39:40

I am not so good at this, but I have gotten better, I think, over the last few years. So there's a couple of things that I do all the time that I do find really help me, and one of them started when we were locked down in COVID and that's to do a fake commute. So I used to drive maybe like 20 minutes to get to my work, or if I was in the office I would be on the train, and then it's about a 20 minute walk from the station to our office and I said why don't I take those 20 minutes, instead of, you know, just sitting on the couch and watching whatever is on TV? Take those 20 minutes and do a fake commute. So I go out, walk around the block for 20 minutes, I've got my tea in my hand, I get some exercise, get some fresh air, and I think that really detaches me from being in my house. So I'm no longer just living in my house, I've gone out the door, I'm on my way to work and I think that once I get back, I've got a little bit of exercise in, I've got a little bit of fresh air. I'm ready to kind of take that step into work mode, because I think it can be quite difficult to delineate your life from your work life, particularly if you're working at home or if you're hybrid, so you're working at home a couple of days a week. I find that to be really invaluable and a strange practice, I will admit, because I am like properly stomping, like I would be if I were walking from the station to the office, but it really just gets the blood flowing that. It gets my brain into that space of ready to turn on, and similarly I do the same thing at the end of the day. So literally a 20 minute stomp around the block where you've left work, you are officially sort of logged off and you can start to kind of put all of those posts that are the grace to bed, whether it be just for 20 minutes or whether it be for the night, and then you go back up and tomorrow morning. I do think that it's been really, really helpful from that perspective.

Ellen Harkin : 41:35

The other things that I do are to recognize within myself what my brain is doing, and this, I think, has been a lot more challenging, a lot more work intensive, but during sort of 2021, where the world was starting to get back a little bit to some steadfast of normal, we were starting to go into the offices again. I did get to the point at which I thought I actually can't even lift my head off the floor, like I've gone, I've done too much, I've put too much pressure on myself and now the whole thing has come crashing down. And at the time I was thinking why do I just suddenly or like this has happened seemingly overnight why do I feel so bad about this? Why am I just not able to cope with any of this anymore? But looking back, there are definite signs that you're starting to kind of go down that path and you're starting to reach the limit of what you can take, whether that be in terms of work or whether that's in terms of everything just going on all around you.

Ellen Harkin : 42:35

And I started to really recognize those signs in myself and to say, okay, we're getting full now. We're almost at breaking point here. Why don't we just take a step back? Have a little bit of an easier day, communicate what's going on to your team and just say, look, I'm gonna take a step back. Have a little bit of an easier day, communicate what's going on to your team and just say, look, I'm gonna take a step back. I'm gonna have a lighter meeting day today.

Ellen Harkin : 42:55

I'm going to just take a couple of minutes to figure all in this out and hopefully it won't all snowball, and I think just recognizing those signs in yourself has been a huge game changer for me, as well of understanding when is the time to say I'm gonna take a little break now so that I don't need to take a longer break in a week's time when everything goes crashing down. Um, and those are the two that I've put in place. I know that there are a thousand things that I should be doing, like mindfulness, like cutting a tiny desk, like all of this different stuff, but I think those are the only two that have worked for me with consistency, and I think that's part of it, as well as finding what genuinely works for you. And what are you not just doing because someone else has told you that it's a good idea?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 43:40

But also you've identified two things and even just you know working hard on those two is very important. Chris Williamson, who does a podcast, modern Wisdom. He talks highly of and recommends sunlight before screen time. So that thing of getting out the house, not being on your phone, embracing nature, just taking that walk before you get sucked into your meetings, the work, et cetera, and then the same thing in the evening so that you can separate and differentiate, you know, day and night, and just taking the space to embrace that time with you is really key. And I loved what you said about dialing up the dials. Or you know when to dial up in terms of okay, let me give a hundred percent, and when to dial down and say, right, it's time to take a step back and it might be a lighter day, it might be a lighter meeting week. Just making sure that you can come back to being your full self and be at your full potential. Isn't it to keep going?

Ellen Harkin : 44:39

yeah, absolutely, and I think recognizing it in yourself is one thing. The communication piece, I think for me has always been. The harder part of. That is to say to someone I'm having a little bit of a challenging week, so I'm going to do x or y. But I think people's expectations have changed a lot over the few years as to what you're going to put up with and what people are able to actually manage. So not only in doing so can you manage people's expectations in terms of what they are going to get from you that week, but I think as well, just having that more open mind of communication, it helps build the relationships within your team, whether that's your employees or your manager. It helps just keep the whole system operating. If everyone has got an idea of where you're at in terms of is it a 10 and you're feeling great and you're going to absolutely smash the zone today, or is it a six and you need to quite take a little bit of a step back?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 45:34

Looking ahead, what exciting developments do you envision for your career? Are they specific goals you're working towards and sustainability is a very big part of what you've discussed your purpose, I think, and your vision. How do you plan to make an impact in your current sector?

Ellen Harkin : 45:53

Tell me a question. This is the one that you know. When you get to an interview and they ask, where do you want to be in five years, I always say I have no idea.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 46:01

Girl, you might be thinking about just the next five months, and that's okay. You know, you don't have to have a five-year plan. No, I think so.

Ellen Harkin : 46:08

Definitely, sustainability stays at the center of everything that I'm trying to do. Had you told me that when I finished my degree, I would have said I never want to speak about sustainability again, but it's knocked its way in and I think it sneaks its way back out into the work that I'm doing. So I definitely have got some exciting projects and some exciting initiatives in mind for the LEGO Group, which is, I think, even to say that is such an exciting thing for me now as to say I'm looking at exciting sustainability opportunities within the LEGO Group, within such an iconic brand, within such a well-known, reputable global brand. So, no matter what you deliver, it's going to be huge, even if it's tiny. Global brands. So no matter what you deliver, it's going to be huge, even if it's tiny. So I do definitely have some exciting initiatives coming up over the next few years or so with the light book group and then for me personally, the answer, as always, is I have no idea. So I had no idea that I was going to be in this role 18 months ago. I had no idea that I was ever going to work for Park Veg, if you would have asked me five years ago.

Ellen Harkin : 47:10

I want to continue to grow and to learn, and I think that's what's really exciting about where I am now is there is so much to learn, and so it will be quite some time. I think that's going to get bored, but that's always. My ultimate opportunity is to keep pushing myself out of my comfort zone, keep making sure that I'm growing, I'm learning and that, alongside that, the things that I'm delivering for my employer, whoever they may be, are exciting, are sustainable, but are something that's maybe a little bit sexy. I always like to have something that people are going to recognize and be like oh, that's cool. So those are, I think, my overall ambitions and how they manifest themselves. Who knows what that looks like over the next couple of years?

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 47:54

well, you've already set the foundation by being open to learn and being curious. That is the biggest part of it. Having, you know, interviewed I've interviewed 49 women on this podcast. Interestingly enough, that's really crazy, yeah, so so it's actually going to be episode 50. So we're getting that halfway mark and everyone has said be open to experiences, being open to learn, being curious, is what has been a big catalyst for the direction that their career has taken. So you're already in the right right trajectory. Then there their career has taken, so you're already in the right right trajectory.

Ellen Harkin : 48:30

Then there my final thoughts. So I think so. Every time, though, I kind of take a pulse on and I think we're definitely moving in the right direction. We're still learning, we're still growing and we still have something to offer.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 48:39

Everything's, everything's going on there, exactly so we're now down to what we call the trailblazer takeaway tip. So I asked the guests to share three tips that they would share with their audience. You know what they would tell their younger self or someone who's listening right now, who's inspired by your journey, your story three trailblazer takeaway tips for them to take away.

Ellen Harkin : 49:03

Sure, my first one, and I think I tell myself this all the time, I tell my friends this all the time even if you're not qualified, go for it.

Ellen Harkin : 49:14

There is a study it's been relentlessly quoted over the last 10 years or so that men will apply for a role if they've only got 60% of the qualifications, but women will do so if they've got 100%. I think we need to take a leaf out of men's book which I don't say very often and just go for it. The worst thing that's going to happen is that they say, no, you're not the right fit for this. But the best case scenario is that you end up outside of your comfort zone, which is always a nice place to be. You end up learning a lot, you end up growing and you end up getting all of this experience that you would never normally have had if you waited until you met the criteria exactly. So I would say, even if you're not qualified, to go for it. Um and I can show you an email where I applied for a ceo position when I was 26. That will attest to that being my motto you need to frame that, Ellen.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 50:09

You need to frame that.

Ellen Harkin : 50:13

So when you are CEO, what was the role? It was CEO of a small. They did like makeup boxes delivered to your house, but it was way before Glossier or anything like that. It was this tiny company. I'd say it was a startup which is why I company.

Ellen Harkin : 50:29

I'd say they probably had eight employees, which is why I thought, well, I'll just be enjoying all of them, I love it, I love it. My second one, I think, would be to look back at your achievements regularly and think about what you would say to a friend if they were their milestones. So, like I mentioned, I think we can be so critical of ourselves and so desperate to move on to what's next. What's next, what's next, that we don't always take the time that we deserve to look back and say that was really great, we did a fantastic job on that, I did that and it was badass, and I think that we need to do more of that.

Ellen Harkin : 51:05

And then I think my final one is and this has been a long time coming for me personally is to recognize what success looks like for you. So had you asked me five years ago, it would have just been money, money, money, money, money, whereas now I'm looking at things and saying, okay, maybe that you're living a happy life and you've got a good balance, you're excited about the work that you do. Maybe all of those things are what success really means. And maybe it's not always just one thing, it's not just the money that you make, it's not just your title. It can be how excited and how passionate you are about your work um, which can be a little bit nebulous or, I think, is equally, if not more important than some of those other more tangible things.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 51:49

Love it. Ellen, this has been an amazing conversation and good to delve into your world, to see what has shaped your career so far, especially in the logistic distribution sector, which I think is really important as well to shine a light on women such as yourselves, and I've been inspired and I hope that you have, and I'm sure you've inspired a woman out there, young old, there is no barrier to which you can learn. It's been a pleasure.

Ellen Harkin : 52:19

Gosh, I hope so. It's been so nice to talk and thank you so much for having me.

The trailblazers experience Podcast : 52:24

Such a pleasure Right for the audience. This has been the Trailblazers Experience podcast. You know where to find us, but please, I'm going to ask a favor, because I never ask for favors. I'd like you to follow, subscribe we are on all streaming platforms we're also on YouTube as well and tell another woman about the podcast. Until then, thank you.