EP51 Carla Penn Khan's Story From Investment Banking to E-Commerce Pioneer

EP51 Carla Penn Kahn ,CEO and Co-Founder of Profit Peak
Ready to be inspired by an exceptional entrepreneurial journey? Join us as we sit down with Carla Penn Khan, the powerhouse founder and CEO of Profit Peak, who shares her remarkable story from her early entrepreneurial roots to her influential role in investment banking at Credit Suisse. Discover how working on the float of Australia's largest department store, Myers, sparked her passion for e-commerce, and hear about the lessons learned from her first failed venture that ultimately led to her success in the food and kitchenware sectors.

Ever wondered how to turn struggles into ground-breaking solutions? Carla reveals the story behind Profit Peak, detailing how her own challenges with profitability in the e-commerce world led to the creation of an innovative internal software. Originally developed for her own businesses, this tool now aids other e-commerce companies in navigating complex advertising landscapes and market shifts. We also explore the dynamics of co-founding a business with one's life partner, showcasing how complementary strengths and a solid partnership can drive a business forward.

Networking and self-care are key themes in Carla’s entrepreneurial playbook. She emphasizes the importance of stepping out of your comfort zone, sharing how mentorship programs like Australia's Giants Program by Blackbird can open unexpected doors. Carla also underscores the value of resilience and the power of sharing knowledge on platforms like LinkedIn, which has brought significant inbound interest for her product. To round it off, Carla shares practical tips on maintaining a healthy lifestyle to meet the demands of running a start-up, including the significance of regular exercise, balanced nutrition, and staying motivated. This episode is a treasure trove of insights and inspiration for aspiring women entrepreneurs everywhere.

Find Carla :
Linkedin  (2) Carla Penn-Kahn | LinkedIn 

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Transcript

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 0:13

Welcome to another episode of the Trailblazers Experience Podcast. If you don't know by now, this is the podcast where we have candid conversations with women across various industries and sectors sectors sharing their career journeys. My next guest is Carla Penn Khan, founder and CEO of Profit Peak. She's had an illustrious career, having worked and held various managing director positions across Sydney, Australia, and Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, over the years, most recently founder of ProfitPeak, which is described as an operating system for profitable e-commerce businesses.

Carla Penn Kahn: 0:54

Hello, Carla, how are you? I'm well. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 1:01

I am just as excited as you are, and respectable time as well. We're having this conversation from the comforts of Malaysia and the United Kingdom.

Carla Penn Kahn: 1:10

Original British colony and then, obviously, malaysia was a British colony as well scaling two businesses from 3 million to an impressive 30 million.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 1:27

I mean, these are stories that appear in Forbes and it's great to be able to talk to someone who's actually done that. But I think let's go all the way back and just really understand your remarkable career journey and what's actually led to this point.

Carla Penn Kahn: 1:39

Yeah, sure. So I grew up in a very, very entrepreneurial family, so I've watched my grandparents and my parents be entrepreneurs, so I always knew from a very young age I had similar aspirations and so after university I decided I needed some structure and some discipline and some foundational skills. So I continued working. My internship became a full-time role in investment banking with Credit Suisse, which is hard to believe it no longer exists because it was back then the place to work as an investment banker in Sydney, and during my experience there I got to work with incredible ultra high net worth individuals and saw them, you know, really seeing the fruits of their labor in terms of the businesses that they had built, and got really inspired about how I wanted to go about building my business from them, not just from my family perspective.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 2:34

That's really interesting actually. So I mean, we all have ideas, isn't it?

Carla Penn Kahn: 2:51

But what sparked then to say, actually I've got a business idea now that I can take from that early startup stage to be able to scale with my investment banking background. Yeah, so it all started. In Australia we have a major department store called Maya. Last deals I worked on was the float of Maya on the Australian Stock Exchange. So we were working with the Maya family office to roadshow the deal and I was part of a team that was working on the project and at that time it was about the establishment of an online presence for Meyer.

Carla Penn Kahn: 3:13

So we're looking back at a time when Meyer, australia's largest department store wasn't even operating online and we were looking at case studies on Macy's Saks Fifth Avenue and how they were trading online, how that was an opportunity, once publicly listed, for Maya to get into, which, incredibly, today it is their number one store, is their online presence. But back then it was non-existent. So I really dabbled in that whole e-commerce world back then and said, hey, is this starting to become more familiar and starting to become more popular in the US? There's no doubt that this is going to come to Australia. So that's when I started looking and researching into the e-commerce market and started my first e-commerce business shortly after, possibly even two months after. Like there was very little time, I like made the decision and I jumped ship.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 4:00

I mean that's really cool and it's interesting to tell the story about e-commerce because it's just had a massive growth trajectory, isn't it 15, 20 years ago? I mean, now you can literally start your online shop just on your phone, with a few clicks here and you're ready to go. Talk me through some pivotal moments in this remarkable journey from the businesses that you've scaled. What have been the challenges that you've had?

Carla Penn Kahn: 4:27

yeah, so my first e-commerce business was actually a failure. Um, which is one of the wonderful things about being an entrepreneur you have failures and you have successes and you have to learn to weather both. Um, and it's being an entrepreneur as well. It's really interesting how a certain day or a certain hour can feel like a failure and then, literally an hour later, you're like, wow, that was an incredible win. It's such an up and down world that we're in when we're doing business on our own and things change in an instance. Like one email can make or break my day literally. So my first e-commerce business was a digital farmers market.

Carla Penn Kahn: 5:06

But, um, so my first e-commerce business was a digital farmers market, um, and it was at a time when the freight systems in australia were really really underdeveloped, so it was really a flawed business model because it was very challenging to get perishables even non-perishables, but breakables around australia. Many people know australia is a densely populated country around the coast, but the middle of australia is a desert, and products got around the coast, but the middle of Australia is a desert and products got across that desert to get to customers. So it failed, but it led me to acquire a gifting business after that and then two kitchenware businesses and a couple of others along the way which I started to really enjoy. Building Anything around food cooking obviously gets me excited with the nature of the businesses that I did. So I really stayed true to my roots of what I loved in the product that I sold.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 5:50

It feels like there's a lot of vision that is required with all of these things, so not only the tenacity to say I'm going to start a business, it's failed, I'm going to get up and start again and do something different. How have you maintained your vision and drive? You know, during this time Because we see a lot of entrepreneurs who just are you know they might be going through some struggles. They may not be understanding that they have to pivot or change direction. How have you managed that over the years, especially with the successful businesses that you've scaled up?

Carla Penn Kahn: 6:25

It all comes down to resilience. I think anyone who wants to start a business. You really need a deep, deep and you really need to become very mission driven and you also have to run your teams in a really mission driven way, because you do have those ups and downs within the day, within the week, within the month, and it's almost like this fight to never give up, Like you just want to run through walls. And I feel like when you unite people and you stay true to your mission as an individual and starting the business, you bring your team running through walls with you.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 6:59

That's interesting and I guess it comes down to also the decade of experience that you've had as a CEO, as a leader. It feels like connecting all the dots from your educational background, then working in investment banking, then going into helping with the sale of a business transaction, and then, actually, one of your businesses was acquired in 2023, which was a pivotal moment. One of your businesses was acquired in 2023, which was a pivotal moment. How did you approach this transition and the decision to say, actually I think my business is ready to be sold. Talk to me about this.

Carla Penn Kahn: 7:33

Yeah. So for me it was more the opportunity of the new business. So we had developed an internal software, which is what's now called ProfitPeak, and we had started running the internal software and just having some casual conversations with other business leaders in the same space as us being e-commerce or D2C, and said to them, hey, we've built this internal tool, is this something that you would be interested in? And the response from every person we spoke to was yes, how soon and how much? And when I realized that, I thought look, I'm in the business today, being as an e-commerce operator where I don't own the brands that I sell. I'm a reseller of other people's brands. The market's only getting more competitive. Amazon's getting stronger in their distribution and brand portfolio.

Carla Penn Kahn: 8:20

In Australia, my suppliers who I've had relationships with for 14 years are now going direct to consumer as well, be it through Amazon or through their own websites, and it just felt like a culmination of events where it was the right time.

Carla Penn Kahn: 8:33

And so I literally picked up the phone to Kitchen Warehouse, who was my competitor for 14 years, and said I'm ready. And they said we did call you last year and ask you if you wanted to sell, and you said you weren't interested in talking, I said, well, look, a lot changes in 12 months. So it was a really frank and honest conversation with them. It was also an interesting thing to do the deal with what felt like the devil, because we had been competitors for so long so we weren't able to just open up books like a normal due diligence process. You know, we really had to negotiate all the terms up front. We also had to really make sure that any information we gave them up front was 100% accurate, because there were then exit clauses on the other side if we weren't totally honest with. You know financial position and you know the books of the business. So it was a really smooth transition for us in the exit because ultimately they were a bigger business than us and they were waiting to fire us.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 9:32

I mean very inspirational and just speaks to your knowledge about you know deal terms and making sure that the commercials are okay, the due diligence is done, so that you come out the other side knowing that A you've done a good job for yourself and for all stakeholders involved and now you are co-founder of Profit Peak and revolutionizing, I think, e-commerce using AI. What inspired you which you've talked about a bit to start this venture and now accelerate it as well? Which you've talked about a bit to start this venture and now accelerate it as well?

Carla Penn Kahn: 10:05

Yeah.

Carla Penn Kahn: 10:05

So the funny thing about Profit Peak is when I have conversations with other e-commerce founders, or even if you just look at the news on any stock exchange of any publicly traded e-commerce business or omni-channel retailer with an e-commerce arm, they all talk about profitability struggles, and they're not alone.

Carla Penn Kahn: 10:23

I had those struggles as well, and especially coming out of COVID, margin challenges, the complexity of the advertising landscape, increased competition online, as it obviously boomed during COVID, but then coming out of COVID, customers returning to physical stores and top line revenue not being as easy to achieve and then having to readjust your fixed expenses in your business because the revenue is not where it needs to be.

Carla Penn Kahn: 10:48

All these challenges were things that I knew and I had, and I managed to solve them using an internal software that we built with our incredible development team over here at ProComfort, and it just felt right time, right place for me to introduce the software to other customers, and so we started as an NFL custom for our own product and then, once we had sold the business, we then focused on finding customers to become our beta customers, our design partners, and really help us leverage the knowledge we had but also apply the principles that they were looking to solve in their business, to the existing software and bring together more minds than just our own.

Carla Penn Kahn: 11:25

So it's really funny when you build an internal software, especially as a data head, which I am, um and then you work with other ceos who love pretty diagrams which is also my husband, by the way. He's a co-founder you know love pretty diagrams and colors and visuals and I'm like I just want numbers. So we're going through a transition phase at the moment where we're really getting our software speaking to multiple different types of users, not just a number head like myself.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 11:51

It's really interesting. I was at an e-commerce summit yesterday and talking to one of the tech providers there and he said what's happened now is there's a big shift from technology companies that are coming up that are now just basing their recipe on fundamentals for business in terms of how can we support business, deliver the outcomes that they need. So, having the visuals, the insights to support profitability challenges, margin challenges, inventory, um. Whereas before it would, oh, we have now this shiny new gadget that's a widget on your website and it's really great, but actually how does it help the bottom line? The most important acronym is P&L profit and loss. All these others are great, but actually how are they helping your bottom line? So to see that you've developed a tool that is, I guess, solving the problems or challenges that you had as an entrepreneur, as a CEO of a business, wanting to actually see those insights, to make those valuable decisions, I think is really key.

Carla Penn Kahn: 12:56

Yeah, absolutely, and it even goes a step further is providing a lot of founders that we're working with the confidence to actually make decisions and know what the next best action is. So for a lot of like the power bi and data analytics tooling out there, it gives you the metrics, but ultimately the metrics aren't changeable unless you understand what's happening and the underlying problem behind each of those metrics. And then what is that next best action? So we found ourselves in a very unique place where we're not just giving you know e-commerce operators and their teams the data that they actually need. We're actually giving them access to the. So what? What steps do we need to actually take? And then the confidence to take those steps. Um, while bringing them all together and saying, hey, stop focusing on revenue optimization because you could get to $30 million revenue, like we did, and be less profitable than you were at $20 million revenue, which we were. Just because you've lifted your revenue doesn't mean your expenses aren't going to scale in line with that revenue uplift or even get out of control.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 13:59

Definitely. I mean, we've seen how and I guess I was going to say a lot of businesses are a victim of the overvaluations that we've seen from PEs and VCs, and it's now getting down to basics, isn't it? Scale slowly but be profitable is probably better than scaling fast and not being profitable at all. So to see that there is a tool that is going to help entrepreneurs, and at different levels of their businesses, is really amazing. Now you talked about ProfitPay that you've co-founded with your partner. How has that been working with you know, your partner for life, but also now partner in business?

Carla Penn Kahn: 14:43

Yeah, so we're Heist for the Sweethearts. So we have been together for over, but also now partner in business. Yeah, so we're heists for the sweetheart. So we have been together for over 20 years now. Um did university together, not just school, um, we also worked together in the e-commerce business. So he joined me a couple of years in on my journey when I could afford cmo. Early on I couldn't afford a cmo, so he needed to keep his job, um. And then when we started building the internal software, it just happened naturally that we continued to build together because we have such different strengths and also different weaknesses. So we really complement each other. And I was saying to a partner the other day I wouldn't be as good of a founder if I didn't have my husband with me on the journey, because he sees my blind spots, which I can't see, and I respect that he can see them, and equally I can see his blind spots, which he doesn't see. So we're almost like 110% together versus, you know, 90% individually.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 15:37

I think that's amazing and the reason why I asked the question is it's important also to show that there are different types of dynamics for business owners leaders. Some are doing it 100% on their own, some are working with a group of investors and some have dynamic partnerships which involve their partners. And it's unique as well and it can work, because you are navigating I guess navigating a few professional and personal challenges, but also leaning into each other's strengths and weaknesses. Do you want to share any memorable moments or challenges of working closely together with your partner, just to humanize the whole relationship?

Carla Penn Kahn: 16:19

sure the funny thing about both of us is we say we're just like our own parents. So my husband's parents worked together in furniture for many, many years and my parents worked together in fintech and packaging and still do today for many, many years. I think my parents have only ever had a career together. So we feel like we've just copied our parents. So we keep saying to our own kids you know, you better marry a partner that you can run a business with if you want to continue this journey. But equally, we have to set really firm boundaries.

Carla Penn Kahn: 16:52

We both can't be CEO, for example, and my husband's incredible in understanding that one of us needs to be the final decision maker. And I always say it takes a really, really strong man to let the woman take the lead and not feel like he needs to be in the driving seat all the time. And so in business, I definitely take the lead and often have the final say, but by no means does that mean when we get home and I'm wrong, he says man, you should have listened, remember. So we have a lot of those conversations because I'm never going to get it right all the time, but it does have to be a final decision maker Equally. I'm really good at setting boundaries, so when I'm being mum or wife, I don't want to talk about work. My husband is not so good, so sometimes I will literally put on noise cancelling headphones and walk around the house to signal to him that I'm not interested in talking about work.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 17:48

It's like if those noise cancelling headphones are on, just pretend I don't exist. I love that. And you've talked about your families and them being sort of the inspiration for your lived experiences and also how you approach entrepreneurship. Is it fair to say that those have actually laid the foundation for your principles and your ethics and your values? Do you want to just talk about what your core ethics and values are as a business leader and as a woman as well? Yeah, absolutely.

Carla Penn Kahn: 18:16

I tell my team all the time that trust and integrity is everything. If they trust me, um, and I can trust them, it's like the foundation to the perfect um relationship, whether it be business or personal. So for me, everything comes down to trust and integrity and I always say to my team it's so important for us all to be good humans because ultimately we spend more time with our work colleagues than we do with our loved ones, um, and so if we're not all good humans, we all don't love coming to work and then there's like a base level of, you know, conflict and in founding a business and being an entrepreneur, you have those ups and down moments all the time. So you really want minimal conflict, you know, within a business and you don't want competitive behavior that makes the team feel uneasy. So I've always thought it was really important to be good humans and also always strive to be customer obsessed.

Carla Penn Kahn: 19:13

That those businesses that really looked after us as customers. We were customers for 10 years and we were design partners and they would release early features to us. A great example is Fast Simon. We were with them for 10 years and they looked after us and they were obsessed with us as a customer or at least we felt that way and we just referred them to every person we knew because they were an amazing business partner, and so we really wanted to make sure that in this business as well, that we were customer obsessed, and my old businesses were the same. So we have a website in Australia called productreviewcomau and we always were ranked number one in our space in terms of independent customer feedback, and that was so important to us. If we ever slipped like 0.1% down but we're still number one we would have this moment of have we forgotten what customer obsession actually means as a business. So I've always really been focused on those three core principles.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 20:17

Yeah, I think, because when you're running a business, you can get so obsessed with what you think is actually happening. It's really key to understand really those core relationships between the customer, the business. What are the outcomes you're trying to achieve and, you know, having the customer at the core of everything that you're doing, but really living and breathing it is key, isn't it?

Carla Penn Kahn: 20:40

It is, and also for different stakeholders in the team. You know know, our engineering team, for example, sometimes probably look at me like why are we making this change? Or why are we doing this? We were so busy focused on this and now we're focused on this and because we're keeping saying to them well, that's the direction the customer wants us to go in, and remember that customer obsession. We're a mission-driven, values-driven business, um, and if their customers say that, this is how we can make them more profitable, and we say that we listen to our customers. This is why. So it makes it a lot easier conversation to have as a team when you change direction or do complex projects, because it's just about staying focused on the mission rather than being individual conflict of opinion.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 21:21

Carla, your journey is so inspiring and, I'm sure, inspiring to women in tech and business where you're based as well. How are you actively championing women's empowerment in the sector?

Carla Penn Kahn: 21:35

Yeah, really good question. I have to admit, my biggest fault at the moment as a new business founder my old business we had 70% female employees. This new business I am the only female employee and it is a real problem and it's something I've identified and I'm currently mentoring an incredible young lady who I hope one day will be able to join us. She's just finishing up at university and so that's one of the ways I like to give back is mentorship. I've also had a lot of other founders in the space e-commerce or not necessarily approach me and say hey, can I just have a 30 minute coffee and talk about you know your journey? I love that because I find I learn more about myself having those conversations. When I reflect on the information that I share with them, then I feel like I actually give.

Carla Penn Kahn: 22:23

And one of the other ways that I like to give back is just sharing my experience with other people. It's as simple as being on this podcast. I'm speaking at an AWS event in two weeks in Sydney where I'm talking to a room of 50% female founders about how we raised our capital and our pre-seed round, and I'm always happy to share and and I hope people feel that as genuine when I put out there on LinkedIn, for example, saying, hey, does anyone want to have a chat? I'm here, and so it's just about being there for other people and sharing your experiences as authentically as you can and remaining humble. I find that's really important.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 22:59

I mean, you've just hit the nail on the head. We know the stats are saying that less than 1% of all the funding goes to women entrepreneurs out there, so it's still a struggle and sharing the information that you have in terms of right, I'm starting a business, what are the things I need to consider? What are the different seed rounds that I might need to go through All this information? Yes, I know people can Google, but having someone experienced, that has been a leader, has scaled businesses, has gone through transactions and can say, look, I've been through this too. You are already helping so many just by doing that. So, Carla, just keep on sharing your knowledge I think you know, so important in the industry and the sector as well.

Carla Penn Kahn: 23:46

Thank you. I appreciate that. I just wish more people would do the same. There's some really great people out there who do share, and then there's others who, you know, hide behind the curtain and sometimes I think it's their confidence that they're not willing to share. It's not necessarily that they don't want to share. So I just pledge for all women to just say, hey, let me help one other woman by sharing my journey. And if we all did that, I mean we'd create such an amazing you know, group sisterhood in the community.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 24:14

I think one podcast, one networking event at a time will get there, I think, is really key. Now let's talk about networking. We all know it plays a crucial role. Sometimes cringe, sometimes it means getting out of your comfort zone. Speaking to people is really important, especially if you're building your professional network in the e-commerce and the AI space. I mean, AI is the buzzword, but it's seen as the next industrial revolution. Talk to me how you are networking and networking success stories that have led to meaningful connections for you personally in your career.

Carla Penn Kahn: 24:55

Yeah for sure. So when I was in my e-commerce businesses, not even a year ago, I didn't do a lot of networking, because I always found that when I was at a networking event, I had a target on my back like, hey, come sell to me. So I shied away a lot from networking and, to be honest, it was to my own detriment. I shouldn't have placed myself in a bubble. Now, post the transaction and being in a startup, I obviously have to get out of my comfort zone and network, and one of the first things I did was join a program in Australia called the Giants Program, which is run by Blackbird, which is a major venture capital fund in Australia, and what they did was host all these different networking events. They also allowed you to access a pool of mentors and ultimately, through that process, I would just have conversations for 30 minutes with different mentors in the network, and the conversation typically ended with are you looking to raise capital? And it was one of those funny moments where when you don't ask someone for money, they offer you money, and so that really spurred on the idea for me of going hey, why didn't you do a different journey this time? Last time, you did it all on your own. You bootstrapped what about this time? Considering de-risking a little bit but accelerating the process by raising early capital and hey, if these people are actually offering it, maybe take it seriously. So putting myself out there really changed the journey. The other thing that I did that was a big shift for me was I was inspired by an investor in Australia called Jesse Wu, who kindly offered to help me build a bit of a LinkedIn strategy, and I then said you know what? What have I got to lose? Just put myself out there, share my e-commerce knowledge for free, and if people listen and like it, great. If they don't, well, maybe they're too shy to like it. But hopefully I'm providing some value. And the result was us actually building a pipeline of 75 inbound demands from brands to use our product. So what set out as an organic journey to actually just maybe have some conversations and coffees with people and share my e-commerce knowledge was actually inbound demand to use our software. So it was huge for me to put myself out there.

Carla Penn Kahn: 27:04

And then something else that I always share with other founders female or male, just in general is I don't remember anyone I said no to when I was running a business and I was trying to sell to me.

Carla Penn Kahn: 27:15

But I do remember the people who have said no to me. So when they do say no, I try to remember that it's okay that no can turn into yes in the future, because there were people who tried to sell salt to me back five or six years ago and then two years later I would pick up the phone and say, hey, you know that product that you were trying to sell me. I think I need it now. So I think if when you try to remember that it's okay that people say no and they won't remember they said no to you and you keep a good relationship, when the no's do happen you start asking more. You get that confidence to just saying, hey, will you mentor me? Hey, I'd love to get a coffee and chat about your experience, and you tend to find that you get more yeses than you do no's. But if you don't ask, you don't get.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 28:00

You've just really summarized the approach. It's like a five-step process to networking. Networking going out just talking about your skill set and things that you're passionate about is the first step, and not saying no to anything, saying yes to more things and not taking the no's that you get personally. Isn't it Because it's about the journey, isn't it? Different phase, not right time, right moment, different chapter and it all. I always say you connect the dots later, isn't it In terms of what those interactions led to as well?

Carla Penn Kahn: 28:37

Absolutely. And I think it's also really important to not fear the no's, especially if you want to get out there as an entrepreneur, because you hit walls all the time. You get no's all the time, Even like my own team will sometimes say to me no, and I'm like no, no, no, we're going to push through that wall, Like we're going to make that no it yes, we just don't know how we're going to do it yet. So I think it's really important. In the same way that I embraced failures early on in my entrepreneurial journey, I still embrace the no's now and just kind of find that way around. You know, if I've hit a wall, what's the way around the wall? And so I think if there's anything I can have other people take away. It's like if it's a no, just find the other angle.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 29:19

That's amazing. Now, running a startup as you've described can be intense. How are you prioritizing self-care? Are there any practices that are keeping you grounded, or is it just one massive whirlwind?

Carla Penn Kahn: 29:35

I think keeping fit and healthy I mean, I'm an Aussie and for us, that healthy lifestyle of you know, getting a good dose of vitamin D every day, getting fresh air, trying to exercise as often as I can those are really, really important to me.

Carla Penn Kahn: 29:52

And I also find having a very healthy diet means that touch wood, get sick a lot less often, even with little kids.

Carla Penn Kahn: 30:00

And just simple things like that in terms of lifestyle really set you up for success and that enduring nature of being a founder and running a startup and always having to keep others around you motivated even if you don't feel the motivation at that exact moment.

Carla Penn Kahn: 30:15

But also my kids keep me really grounded. You know I make a conscious effort that at least at least four days during the week I am home by quarter to 6 pm and I'm cooking them dinner and I spend 45 minutes in the kitchen with them and I make sure that I can put them to bed and read them stories. That's really, really important to me and it's something I'm not willing to sacrifice on. Like I have a very hard stance on that. So if there are two events in one week, I will pick which one is better so that I can be there for my kids and that grounds me and it brings me back down to earth and even if I've had a bad day, just looking at their cute faces just makes me smile Like it's all okay, Like they make me know that everything's going to be okay.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 30:56

It feels like what I'm hearing from a lot of women is it's just setting those personal non-negotiables for yourself, for your family, for your kids, for your life, and sticking to them. And sometimes it's just really simple things. Like you know, I want to make sure that I'm able to read a story to my children, and that's a start, you know. The list can't be too long, don't you think, Carla?

Carla Penn Kahn: 31:21

Yeah, absolutely. You know the list can't be too long, don't you think, carla? Yeah, absolutely. And you know cooking's a happy place for me. All my businesses before profit peak were around food. So getting that down time at the end of the day in the kitchen making a nice healthy meal, and especially if my kids actually eat it, I'm even happier. Sometimes I see co in the bin and then I'm like all right, yogurt time, um, but I try again, focus on the positives and not focus on the bin. And then I'm like all right, yogurt time. But I try again, focus on the positives and not focus on the failure. And tomorrow night's another dinner and maybe they'll love it. That's amazing.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 31:47

I mean food comfort. Any particular cuisines that you'll go to. What are your go-to cooking meals?

Carla Penn Kahn: 31:55

Well, if it was up to my husband, it would be Greek, italian and Middle Eastern food, so those are his favorites. If it was up to me, it would be more Asian cuisines. I love Chinese food, I love Thai food, I love Malaysian food, I love Indian food as well. So pretty much five or six nights a week I cook, and every night is a different cuisine, because I've got to balance hubby's taste with my taste, and then the kids like both, but a very watered-down plain version not so much amazing an eclectic mix there, isn't it?

Carla Penn Kahn: 32:29

yeah, it's just a chili or curry powder toned down, basically for their portions love it, love it.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 32:36

So what exciting developments on the horizon for profit, peak um any expansion, any expansion plans, new features. It feels like there's so much to go for, yeah absolutely.

Carla Penn Kahn: 32:48

Our place at the moment in the market is that we're in beta, so we're building with our design partners behind closed doors, but we're getting to a really positive place in our confidence to say, hey, we're no longer a closed beater product, but we actually have the confidence to launch in the public market. And today was an amazing test case because we had a massive win with a major institutional brand actually self-onboarded. We were ready to white glove onboard them and they said, hey, we can handle this ourselves. To white glove on board them and they said, hey, we can handle this ourselves. And so that's again one of those wins that has given me confidence to say you know that, one more tick to being ready to be an open market platform and play solution. But in terms of features coming out, there is just so much. There is so much I want to build so much, I want to do so much amazing customer feedback and it's really a process of us prioritizing.

Carla Penn Kahn: 33:42

But one of the things I'm most excited about is giving brands the opportunity to understand the impact of discounting and discount campaigns on their P&L. So what a brand does is they run a 10% off or a 20% off discounting campaign. They run it for a couple of days and they see this great revenue trajectory. But what does that actually mean to customer acquisition cost? What does that actually mean to contribution profit and what customers did you acquire? So a lot of brands say you know, I need to do these discounts to acquire new customers.

Carla Penn Kahn: 34:13

But what if you look at that customer cohort you acquired and then say in 12 months' time, did they ever shop again? Or did they really ever shop again on discount? So was it really a worthwhile strategy for my P&L and my customer acquisition goals? And what inventory actually sold when I did this discount campaign? Did I just sell my everyday best sellers at less margin? Well, that was pointless, because now I've got less money in my wallet to go back and buy the same clothes again or the same furniture or whatever it might be. Or did I actually end up moving a lot of my aging inventory and, hey then that's a success because I'm more capital efficient now and I can invest in my best sellers. So one of the things I'm most excited about is being able to give these results to customers and have them armed and ready for events like Black Friday where they can confidently discount and not say I don't know if this discount campaign is actually going to be worthwhile.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 35:04

And also to help the circular economy, because ultimately, if we can have a grip on inventory and stock, then maybe, maybe, just maybe, brands may not have to produce as much, have too many categories and too many skews, and we could hopefully then become a more sustainable world as well. I think so. It's, you know, coming back to the customer, but also how can we be efficient and just contributing to that circular economy as well?

Carla Penn Kahn: 35:35

Absolutely. There's a charity in Australia that a very good friend of mine is head of marketing for called Thread Together. In Australia that a very good friend of mine is head of marketing for called Thread Together and what they do is they get brand new clothing that retailers would typically dump because they say it's not saleable and then they give it to people who are in need and under privilege. So, rather than them getting secondhand clothes, they create that sofa con with brand new clothing which makes people feel really good about themselves and confident to go get that next job and do that job interview or go to university feeling equal to your peers or whoever it might be. It's an incredible charity oh, that's brilliant.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 36:14

And also for confidence. You know, we still live in a world where a lot of people are struggling with with confidence. And how do you build that? Sometimes, for some, it's a simple thing is getting their hair done. For some of them, it's having that outfit to go to the job interview and then bringing their best foot forward. It's the little things that make the most difference, isn't it? Absolutely.

Carla Penn Kahn: 36:38

Just to have something new is really special for a lot of people. It Absolutely Just to have something new is really special for a lot of people, carla, you've talked a lot about your family.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 36:44

You've talked about your children, your husband Speaking to a lot of women, having your circle. Your tribe is really important. Who is your tribe, carla? Who keeps you going? Who calls you out on your bullshit when it's needed? And why is that important to find your tribe?

Carla Penn Kahn: 37:08

Yeah, absolutely Definitely. You know our family. Only the four. My four family unit means everything to me, and even my son will say, hey, remember, you said that when you get home from work you're not going to check your emails, and then he'll go and take my mobile and put it on charge. So he keeps me in check at eight years old, but equally, he's already talking to us all about the e-commerce businesses that he wants to build, and so that's definitely like my full family unit. But then my parents are incredibly influential in my life. I also have a sister who's five years younger than me. I feel like I'm a mini mom too. And then I have amazing grandparents who were role models to me as well, and then I have really amazing friends.

Carla Penn Kahn: 37:51

So similar to the relationship I kept with my husband through school as Heist for Sweethearts my closest girlfriend we've been friends since we were four. My closest girlfriend we've been friends since we were four. So we laugh that you know we've been friends now what, 34 years. And that's a really core, special friendship, because she'll often say to me you should not be doing that, or you know what it's like when you and I'm like, yeah, she does know, she absolutely knows, and it's just special because it's one of those friendships where you don't have to ever explain anything. Um, you just know absolutely everything about each other and you respect each other's opinions and also you can just be your authentic self, isn't it?

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 38:31

there is, you know, no airs and graces. You can just be you and it's. It's refreshing, especially when you're, I guess, in the in the rat race of of entrepreneurship and trying to raise money and managing people, etc. Just being able to come back to the core of who you are is is key absolutely, and to be able to raise money and run a business.

Carla Penn Kahn: 38:55

It all comes down to relationships, and so I'm very, very aware of the type of people I want to bring into my circle, and that even includes my investor circle.

Carla Penn Kahn: 39:06

So when we were raising our round, we were so fortunate to be oversubscribed and have all these different investors looking to join us, and we really sat down, my husband and I, and said, all right, if someone calls us out of this group of people, whose call do we want to take and who are we going to hide from? And because we really wanted to only be in business with the people that really made us feel good about ourselves and we felt were on the mission with us, and so we were very fortunate to be able to have choice. But I think if you can get yourself choice in business whether it be, you know, your co-founder, you know really make a conscious choice. Really make a conscious choice on who you bring into your team, who you bring into your inner circle, who you take investment from. It actually makes it a lot easier to weather storms, because there is no entrepreneurial journey, none that I know of, where you don't have storms to weather.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 39:57

I mean, that's very crucial, isn't it? You've talked about starting a business that didn't work and having to just pivot and start again. Have you ever had moments in your entrepreneurial journey where you thought, oh my goodness, if we don't secure this funding or we've run out of funding, or how do you even navigate that? Because sometimes it's a bit on that bell curve, where that's the point actually, where a decision has to be made which could accelerate the business, or it could just be the end. What tips would you give to, especially women, who might just think I can't overcome this in that moment?

Carla Penn Kahn: 40:38

I think if you have a really strong grip on your financial position, whatever business that you run, you can really avoid getting to that final moment where it's like I'm underwater, I cannot see a way out, and that definitely happens. But in general, when I've had conversations with people who have gotten to that stage, it's because they didn't have a good grip on their financials. They weren't watching cash flow, they weren't aware that they were negative in terms of the cash flow generation that they had for their business. They also weren't aware that they couldn't pay for the next shipment of stock that they just ordered. These are all the things that are really really crucial to a business, and I suppose my unfair advantage as a founder was that I came from a financial background, so I knew, setting up these businesses, that I needed to keep a strong grip on my finances.

Carla Penn Kahn: 41:29

By no means does that mean I never got myself into trouble where you know, I maxed out an Amex to 100K, and I did it a few times in COVID, because we knew that they were closing ports, for example, and we needed to land more stock because demand went through the roof and while we hadn't sold other stock, I needed to get more stock in. So the amex was getting quite pretty heavily um and it was scary um. But they ended up paying more for us because it obviously helped us gain to secure inventory that our competitors couldn't secure later on. But by no means were the decisions I took lightly and there were certain nights where I was like, how am I going to even pay for this? Like 20% interest rates, I cannot afford. But they definitely teach you to. You know, have a bit more grit and resilience and back yourself. Like you, I think, as women we sell ourselves short a lot and we second guess ourselves by nature, and sometimes you just have to say I'm backing myself, like I can do this.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 42:30

I love that and thank you for being so vulnerable and just sharing. You know there have been instances where you've just had to make decisions. Everything is a choice, isn't it? You have to make a decision and be prepared to live whatever the outcome is, but there are decisions that just have to be made at every stage of running a business, or even just being an entrepreneur, or even just your career journey in general, isn't it?

Carla Penn Kahn: 43:02

when I was working in investment banking a crazy salary too for my age and that was a huge risk to say, hey, I'm going to go and earn no money for the first year, which I didn't, and earn a very little amount in my second year and I'll slowly build up. That was also a huge decision and sacrifice early on, because I'd come accustomed to a much nicer lifestyle with no expenses really, because I was still living at home as well. So, yeah, it's a very big step.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 43:25

So we've come full circle, basically, isn't it In terms of talking about your career journey and your entrepreneur journey? Scaling businesses, selling businesses, starting a new business, which I see really, and have high hopes for, because it is the direction I think a lot of businesses are taking. Let's talk about trailblazer experience, takeaway tips. Hindsight is an interesting thing. What pieces of advice would you give to aspiring entrepreneurs, women CEOs, tips that you wish someone maybe would have shared with you in the early years?

Carla Penn Kahn: 44:01

Yeah, I think two things that I only learned recently in my career as a founder was being really focused on being mission-driven and taking conversations away from feelings of friendship or family. So I feel like that was a mistake I made in my old business, for example, where I called our team a family, because family is not really the best description for a dynamic team that's trying to push boundaries. So one thing I'd say is get really mission driven. You know you're going to have to commit to that mission for 10 plus years. If you're starting a business, or even if you're working in a business and you're going to be there five to 10 years on this journey, really know that you agree with the mission, think that's important and then get really set on your core values and what you're not willing to sacrifice. I think that's really, really important.

Carla Penn Kahn: 44:49

Otherwise you kind of just get lost in the noise and you don't make the right decisions when it comes to hiring. You don't make the right decisions when it comes to, like, product development or product buying, because you lose focus of what those core values are and who you need to speak to. And then I think, finally, you know, have people around you that you genuinely want to spend time with people who uplift you. If someone's pulling you down, they're not the right partner. And then you go back to those mission and values that are core to you and you can actually say you know, this is not really working. We're not on the same page when it comes to my mission and values as a human, as a business builder, as a manager. And then it takes away that personal element and it makes it a much easier conversation to have.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 45:36

Carla, this has been amazing. I've, you know, just having this conversation with you. You are rooted in family, in foundation. It's the heart of everything that you do and is seeping through and you're telling your entrepreneurial story and I'm really sure it will inspire someone, some woman, someone in the audience out there.

Carla Penn Kahn: 46:01

I so, and I wish everyone all the very best. And if anyone wants to reach out after and have a chat, if you're not based in sydney and you don't want to grab a coffee, we can do it virtually. I'm always open amazing right audience.

The Trailblazers Experience Podcast: 46:12

This has been the trailblazers experience podcast. You know where to find us. We are on all streaming platforms. Remember to share, follow, follow, subscribe and tell another woman about the podcast. Thank you very much.