1.01 - When Presence and Connection Matter Most with Lauren Pla

Tina chats with guest, Lauren Pla, about the challenges of parenting when also trying to heal and grow from your past. Topics include perfectionism, honoring the souls of our children while not projecting onto them our own past/hurts, and how vulnerability plays an essential role in parenting.

Lauren is a certified life and empowerment coach who has a passion for supporting both kids and parents on their journey toward deeper connections with themselves and each other. 

Guest: Lauren Pla

• Website: https://www.hinenicoaching.com 
• Instagram: https://instagram.com/laurenpla/

Host: Tina Unrue

• Podcast Why: 1.00 Trailer
• Website: www.selfishmama.com
• Newsletter: Selfish Mama Insider
• Facebook/Meta: @SelfishMama
• Instagram: @realselfishmama
• LinkedIn: @tina-unrue

Transcript

Lauren Pla: I can do it sometimes when I remind myself, when I'm conscious enough in the moment to say, all right, this moment is sucking, but is it really sucking? Or am I making it suck because I'm resistant to it? 

Welcome to the Selfish Mama Matters Podcast with your host, and my mom, Tina Unrue. 

Tina Unrue: Hi Lauren. Thank you so much for being here and being a guest on the podcast. 

Lauren Pla: My pleasure. I'm happy to be here. I look forward to chatting with you. 

Tina Unrue: I am super excited you're here, and I know that we have been talking a lot already. I probably should have hit record beforehand because we had lots of wonderful things already to say.

So I think this is going to be a really wonderful discussion for all the listeners, but selfishly for me too. 

Lauren Pla: And Me too . 

So first of all, please introduce yourself, share your pronouns, and tell us how you show up in the world. 


[00:00:58] Guest introduction
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My name is Lauren Pla. My, uh, coaching practice is Hineni Coaching. My pronouns are she/her. , I show up in the world, as a perfectly imperfect human, slash um, constantly learning and evolving, parent, and, coach for teens and parents.

Mostly I would say that in my daily life, all of those things are constantly heaped together and you're always getting some part of that from me at all times . 

Tina Unrue: I love that. Thank you so much. And the reason that I love that is because you perfectly articulated what I believe is true in the world and what I suspect you believe is true in the world, which is we are who we are no matter where we are in the world, who we're showing up for. So I love that question more than what you do for a living, because some people don't... 

Lauren Pla: It's a great question. 

We don't get paid for being a stay-at-home mom. And that has really hit a lot of women, since COVID. 

Tina Unrue: A lot of women have left the workforce just because of either choice, because they've come to realize that they, just really didn't enjoy their job. Or unfortunately they lost their job or childcare, or any other systems for that matter, societally have not been supportive enough during such a difficult time that they weren't able to take care of their kids and hold down a job. 

Lauren Pla: Correct. 

Tina Unrue: But like you said, it all melds together. 


[00:02:31] Your life is your brand
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Lauren Pla: I love that you asked it that way because if you had just said, tell me what you do, you would've gotten one third of that answer. Yeah. Which is not a holistic view. I was listening to something earlier this morning, which I've heard before, but it just happened to hit home this morning, which is why it's on my mind. Your life is your brand. Like each person is a brand. When they say, oh, let's build your brand.

You already are a brand. And I really just love that you asked that question that way. I also find it funny that you said I articulated it well because as it was coming out, I'm like, am I making any sense?

Tina Unrue: Welcome to my world. I feel that way all the time. Ever since I had my daughter, my vocabulary is questionable, which you already got exposed to before we started recording . So it just is what it is. I feel like it's just the thing that will forever plague me for being a mom and that my vocabulary is shot. 

Lauren Pla: I make up words and people get it.

Get it. So I think we're all just gonna understand each other. It'll be okay.


[00:03:45] Imperfect perfection
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Tina Unrue: Exactly. And the other thing that I love that you also said is that not only do these different pieces and parts of you show up in your day-to-day, no matter where you are, but that you used a term that I absolutely adore, which is perfectly imperfect or imperfectly perfect.

I just love that. So share with me, ways in which you feel you show up, in both which ways, in what ways do you feel like you show up perfectly? And in which ways do you feel like you show up imperfectly?

Lauren Pla: That is a loaded and actually kind funny question, it makes me think about this is going to sound really philosophical and it could be its own podcast conversation, but it's making me think like, who am I to think about or say where I show up perfectly because it's subjective anyway, right?

Like, I might think I'm showing up perfectly in x, y, Z situation and the other person involved with me in that situation could have a completely opposite, perception of how I showed up. But don't let that scare you. You should always just try to be your best when you know better.

Do better. 

Yes. I think I now recognize that I'm constantly learning and even things that I thought that I knew really well, the universe has been gracious enough to call me on my bullshit and say, you're not done yet and you need to take another look at this thing. And it's been really uncomfortable and I can throw a really good toddler style tantrum when that happens.

And it happens alot. And so I think it's just embracing that. I really don't think perfection exists and I'm fine with that. But like who came up with, who's the first person that decided this is the standard of what perfection looks like. Especially if you're talking about existing on the human plane where there's billions of people and everybody thinks a little bit differently and we pray differently and we eat differently.

Lauren Pla: And tell me where the people are that have figured out the perfection part. Because, I just, to me it feels like, , it's like gaslighting. I don't know, like perfect? When you are showing up or when I am showing up in a way that feels, in integrity, with love, compassion, empathy, understanding, those are my core values.

Yeah. So when I show up in my core values, to me that's perfection. That's my perfection. I can't control what other people think about my perfection, and the rest of the time I'm learning. The human part is the part where the ego comes in and the emotions come in and we react instead of act or think, act before we think.


[00:06:44] Leveraging imperfection as a teachable moment
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Lauren Pla: And, you gotta have some grace with that. I have moments all the time where I'll say to my kids, I, I didn't show up as what I would say my best self is in that moment. And I hope that you can forgive me. That was, I had a real human moment. And it's, and I hope that my saying that to them teaches them that it's okay also for them to have moments where they quote unquote behave badly, and think it's the end of the world when really it's just because you had a human moment.

I really was interested in obviously dissecting your answer to, the perfect and imperfection question because I feel like a lot of times we want to make space as moms to lower the bar, right? Like we have set the bar so high. As have others, mind you. The, I'm not at all trying to imply that this is all our own self doing by any means. There are clearly structures and systems and really just legacy in place that have just set the bar so high that we feel like we are always striving to attain something that is unattainable.

Lauren Pla: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: And you said a couple things that I think are really important to hit on. Number one is that you didn't necessarily say it this way, but I took it this way, which is there's perfection in the imperfection, right? That in and of itself, in, in the attempt of doing our best, while it still will be imperfect, is still perfect enough. If that makes sense. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah, I like that. That's like . That is what I was saying, that it's, yes. And there's a Japanese, word for this too, which I, which is escaping me, but the idea behind it is the chip in the cup and it's, the cup is beautiful because of the chip in it. , I wish I could tie it back to the Japanese theory or phrase or whatever it was.

Tina Unrue: Is it Kintsugi?, It might be cons. Okay. 

Lauren Pla: I don't think that's it. I just, it's completely escaping me. But,you know what? I shouldn't say that that's not it. I guess it could be, but that's not ringing a bell. 

Tina Unrue: Okay. 

Lauren Pla: But anyway, yes, . Yeah, I agree with you. 

Tina Unrue: And so how incredibly, just peaceful can we all be, and live and move about in the world , if we redefine what perfection means to us and what that looks like? And you did it so artfully, which was really the perfection, is for me to decide because we can't control anybody else's perceptions and they're entitled to whatever the perception is that they want to have.

So we can only control ourselves. Yes. And for you, you have defined that as being in integrity with your values. 

Lauren Pla: Yes. 


[00:09:34] Looking at yourself through the eyes of your child
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Tina Unrue: And that is I think, just such a gift to give to yourself. And not just that, but then that, this brings me to the second point, which is, but then to also model for your kids. Because that's one thing that helped me break free from my, like lots of mom guilt, when I wasn't doing things perfectly and I wasn't juggling all the balls and keeping them up in the air and doing all the things. It at some point, and I don't remember when, probably when I was going through, coach training, it really dawned on me to take a look through the lens of my child.

Like, what is my child seeing? How is my child seeing me show up in the world? And while I did my best, I'm sure to cover my tracks and not have her see all of the, struggle and the hard moments. and you mentioned it I think before the recording that obviously the younger they are, the easier it is to, Make space, For, yeah. For those protections. but as they get older it's increasingly more challenging to do so. Yeah. and I thought, how am I showing her how to be a good human if I'm constantly setting myself up for failure? And then in essence, what, in, intentionally or not, I am giving her that framework in essence of, and yes, this is what motherhood looks like.

and I thought eff that like, what, and so that was one of the more profound moments for me for kind of shifting away from the model of perfection, and being. Yeah, just it was the thing that helped I think the most in shifting away from mom guilt for me, Without a doubt.

Lauren Pla: That's a really beautiful tool. That's a really beautiful tool that I wish I had access to when I was a younger mom and when my kids were younger, I didn't really start thinking about or figuring any of this out, until, my daughter, my first child was probably 16 years old. And that relates, I know now, not then, but I know now that relates very specifically to a traumatic time in my life when I was 16. So her turning 16 triggered me to start freaking out about everything, because until that point, I thought I was pretty chill. But the idea of looking at myself as a parent through her eyes,I think it is a pretty powerful way to take some of the, some of the judgment off of how we parent. Because it's really all about us, right? It's like I didn't do this well enough, or I could have done that better, or I didn't spend enough time. And I will now have conversations with my daughter who is 23, and I will still have some mom guilt and say, I wish I had done this differently or that differently.

And she looks me dead in the face and she is like, no, you were amazing. Like what you did made who I am. Like, I would not have wanted you to show up differently. And I'm like, but it could have been better , And she's like, no, I am telling you. So that, thing that just gets really stuck in us I think that we all just learn from society um, is really, uh, powerful stuff that it just makes us wanna hit these, unachievable standards. No matter how good you did something, you could always have done it better. Like it's never good enough. I read my child, three books a week for bedtime, but I didn't do it every single time they went to bed, so I wasn't as good as I could have been.

Tina Unrue: Yes. Yeah. 

Lauren Pla: Just, and it's all, I have days when I'm like, Ugh, screw this. It's all nonsense. But, it's nonsense that as moms we hold onto very deeply in our hearts and in the core of who we are. Being a mom, for most mothers changes us in such a way where you now have this being, and it's like your heart is on the outside of your body.

Like just everything in you is protection and love, and how do I make this little thing have the best life? And we don't, I know, I hate to say this ladies , but we don't get to have that answer. That's where we start in on the, okay, I'm gonna do this or I'm gonna do that. And we start creating this vision of what the perfect life looks like and putting that onto our, our kids, in what we think is a very loving way and then it's just, we just judge ourselves so harshly. And it's crazy when you think about it. I'm just thinking about it as I'm saying it, and it's just like, damn. We really set ourselves up. Like you said, setting yourself up for failure. It's like, my gosh. So I love that tool that you used for yourself, because I think it's a kind of a simple way to just reframe what's going on and to really be able to say like, how does my child see me? They see me as, being there for them when they're hurt and having someone to talk to and being silly and playing, Barbie dolls or doing a puzzle together, or whatever it is. And, my child knows that I've got their back.

What are the most important things, right? What boxes do you want your child to check? That they feel safe and loved and seen and heard? Or that you read them Goodnight Moon 57,000 times when they were, a baby? Not to say that is not something that they would remember and thrive from, it's, yeah.

It's learning as first time, parents and young parents. I don't wanna feel bad or have sympathy for, butI do sometimes just have those little tinges of, y'all are just trying to figure it out, and just, it's raising a human and there's just no guidebook. 

Tina Unrue: No. Even though we wish there were obviously.

Lauren Pla: I know.


[00:15:29] Beautiful and tragic part of parenting
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Tina Unrue: But I think that's, that's the beautiful but also tragic part of this, right? Is that we get to make it up along the way and have it be authentic for us. 

Lauren Pla: Yep. 

Tina Unrue: And, but again, beautiful and tragic. Yeah. Because we can barely figure out ourselves sometimes, let alone, have this little toddler 

Lauren Pla: Yeah.

Tina Unrue: Coming along for the ride and we're like, we have no idea what we're doing. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah. 

It's funny. A hundred percent you again, like when it's, you are given this task and we approach it as most parents do from this place of common sense. Keep them alive. They have to eat every few hours.

They, but the building and nurturing of the spirit, who the hell teaches us how to do that? Each child is different. So it's not a one size fits all. You, me, I could be talking about myself, you, the people listening and really me,could have a child where they're very different from you.

They have very different views than you. They don't like the same things that you, like, you almost feel like you have nothing in common with this person, and yet you are still the person that they chose. That's another spiritual thing that I believe in. That your children choose you to come and be with in this life.

So how do you navigate that? 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. Yeah. And I swear, I know I'm gonna have to like harness and focus all my questions because I could talk to you for hours. Okay. So lemme just get myself together. I love everything that you're saying and we definitely need to touch on the spiritual. Part, but I suspect that it's probably going to come through in your answer to this question, which is, you talked about your perspective of being a parent and your child's differing perspective of your parenting, and she sounds just phenomenal because she said just all of it, all of you who you were, was exactly what I needed to be in this world.

And you also brought up something wonderful that I don't wanna lose, which is, how do we tend to the souls and the spirit of our child when most of us can relate to feeling like that wasn't done for us? Right. We have no guidebook, , like you said, not just to raising a child, but yet doing it in a way that we feel is in the most kind of conscious and aware and loving of ways and spaces And so we have no model. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: for that. Take us through, you said that you didn't start to shift maybe your parenting methodologies or practices until your daughter was about 16.

Can you walk us through what your parenting felt and looked like, prior to 16? And then what was the catalyst for change around 16? 


[00:18:26] How parenting is shaped by our past
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Lauren Pla: So I was a relatively young first parent. I was 23 when I had my daughter. I was in a very unstable, unhealthy, and abusive relationship at the time.

And it was not until I knew when I was pregnant with her, that most likely I wasn't staying in the relationship, because I didn't trust that it could get better and, I couldn't find the strength at the time to leave for myself. I had tried, but it didn't really work because I'm an empath and a pleaser, and to me, leaving my ex-husband prior to having my child was like abandoning him in his time of need, which is a conversation for another time because obviously that's not what that is. It's healthy boundaries and, you can love someone unconditionally and also not let them take over your life and I had to come to terms with that idea. But, when I had her, we were, I left him and we were on our own. We were lit, literally running, homeless, at the time because I had to leave like in the dead of night. It was kind of that kind of a situation. Yeah, so I, uh, probably in a therapeutic sense almost had an unhealthy attachment to her.

Lauren Pla: I'm sure we, it was kind of probably codependent in a way, maybe because she really saved my life cuz she gave me the reason that I needed to leave my ex-husband, which was, protecting her. So I think that I developed, I don't wanna say it was crazy, unhealthy, but in terms of what the professionals would deem healthy and unhealthy, I probably parented her more from a place of protection than I needed to because we experienced this life based on our life experiences. So I had all of this unsafeness, that's my word of the day. Unsafeness. Yeah. This trauma, this this un holiness, you know, um, there were times, in my life that I wanted to be saved by somebody, but I didn't really articulate that and nobody ever knew, so nobody ever came.

So I was in these situations that I ultimately didn't really want to be in, but didn't get myself out of. And so I brought that to the table with her, but had totally unconsciously . Yeah. I had left my ex-husband. I had gotten a job, I had gotten a house, I had met my new husband. for, I was like, okay, that's in the past, we're done and I'm good.

And I'm the fun mom, and if my kid ever smokes pot, like I won't be upset at that, But I could tell you that was not how that played out because, the first pot smoking incident, I was like, oh my God, what? You know, I I literally fucking freaked out, pardon of my French.

But I was, it just, so at 16 it, came to, now she's of an age where she's, experimenting with some things and hanging out and doing, uh, probably not even half of the stuff that I was doing, but I was so trapped in a space in my life that started at that age with doing those things.

Most teenagers at 16, like they go in the woods, they smoke a joint, they get A's and they go on and they become whatever. And they're not traumatized. But I was traumatized. So when she turned 16, I brought all of my trauma into the relationship. I and really did not realize it. and I'll tell you exactly when it shifted, it shifted when, I am a lifelong and hardcore fan of therapy.

I legit think when we are given our social security numbers, we should also be assigned a therapist because, I don't know, dunno, I dunno how anybody does this shit alone. . But I was in therapy having a complete and utter panic attack breakdown over the fact that I think this situation was my daughter had, we have Life 360 and she's happy to have me know where she is. That has never been a problem. But, she had gone with a friend and shut off her location and that exposed a fear in me of just distrust and lying and why did she shut off her location and what is she doing that's unsafe that she doesn't want me to know about?

And I completely panicked. And she came home safe and happy and healthy. And I was so hysterical crying. Like I could not hide it from her. I could not. I feel like I was out of my mind. And I just came clean to her and I said, I'm not okay. Like, This is not your fault. The like, you did nothing wrong.

This is me, like I'm struggling to accept. And she said, oh my God, mom, I shut off my location because my other friend follows me. And I didn't want her to know that I was going here cuz I told her I was taking a nap or something, whatever it was, had nothing to do with me. And she was nowhere bad. And I went to my therapist and I was like, unable to get myself together.

And, she literally looked at me and she just said, have you not put the pieces together that you are freaking out because you are experiencing all of your trauma because your trauma started at this age. Like you are just, you're triggered, you're triggered. And it, I literally looked at her like, I don't know. I just remember think, and I remember I'm a pretty educated person when it comes to this, so of course my brain was like, yes, stupid. Like, why didn't you think of this? But I was like, holy crap. Okay. Now that we know that to the second part of your question, like how do you shift that?


[00:24:28] Challenges in reparenting amidst parenting
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Lauren Pla: And you've mentioned a few minutes ago when you talked about, how do we parent someone when we're still trying to like, work on things ourself? And I'll tell you like that is something that I am passionate about helping parents with and I'm doing it myself. This is not to say that I have all of the answers, but reparenting myself while I am legitimately going through a period within my child's lives where I'm also triggered out of my mind. And how do you do those two things simultaneously? So in that moment, she brought to light, why I was triggered. And understanding why definitely helped me because it, it was like the black or white.

There's a reason you're freaking out and it might not be because your daughter is actually putting herself in harm's way or actually doing the things that you were doing or didn't want to be doing. Yeah. She reminded me that I am a much more present parent than my parents were. My parents were lovely present people, but I, because of what I went through and because of my attachment to my daughter, I was just a little more in tune, which probably was good some days and bad other days. And she, this is pulling the bandaid off. This is where it hurts. She said, if the worst happens and we went through for me what the worst would be, it's probably similar for most parents, and I don't need to put words in anybody's mouth, but you think of what is the worst thing.

And, she looked me straight in the face, my therapist, and she said, and if that happens, what are you gonna do about it?

And I was like,I don't know, like nothing . And she said, you still have a life to live. You won't be able to control that outcome. If something bad is gonna happen, it's gonna happen with or without you present. And nobody wants to hear that. But it was a truth that hit so home for me and so hard for me to recognize that we are not in control. And I think as a parent, that is like our worst fear, to not have control over something.

That was the long answer to your question, but that was really how it, it happened. I just, it took years. I was in a space recognizing that I was not okay for probably two or three years. My daughter and I could not even have a conversation. I, no matter how hard I would try to approach a conversation in a way that would not feel attacking to her whatever she was hearing was not, she was not having me, she was not having it. We were like butting heads. And I would go in my bedroom and cry. Yeah. Because I was like, oh my God, like I just wanna talk to you. And she was like, Ugh, you know? And I was like, why is she so repulsed so, you know, navigating that was definitely a learning experience.

And then once I had that epiphany, it was like a light switch went on and I suddenly, it wasn't that I wasn't scared anymore, it's just that I accepted that I had no control, or a hell of a lot less control than I thought I might have previously had. And then also my husband reminded me that we raised our kids well and that at some point we're gonna have to trust that we did a good enough job, that they have enough common sense to get by and people are gonna make stupid decisions, and stupid decisions can get people killed. And that's true, but that's just something that's never gonna change. Yeah. And I know it sounds really like, it sounds harsh even when I say it, but that was the thing that really relaxed me,in a weird way.

Lauren Pla: It was like, okay, like, I've done the best that I can do and I'll continue to teach, but only when they are gonna hear me. So yeah. I hope that even answered the question. 

Absolutely did. 

Lauren Pla: Oh, good. 

Tina Unrue: Thank you so much for sharing that story. And I, one of the reasons that I love the direction of our conversation is because so many people, so many moms will be able to relate to how you were feeling. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: Whether they have a 16 year old or older or even younger. I think all moms feel like their children are literally a part of them. And so you mentioned that earlier, like it's almost like your heart is outside of your body and it is walking around. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: And it is in constant potential for danger.

Lauren Pla: I know. 

And we're like, no, that is my heart. Yes. 

Tina Unrue: And it's just one of the things that I love the most is when we can kind of start to shine the light on things that once were dark. 

Yeah. And and not dark meaning in some type of deceptive or nefarious way. I just mean subconscious dark.

Lauren Pla: Yeah.

And that's what you articulated, right? it wasn't until she was 16 and something then connected with you on a subconscious level that you were not prepared for. You did not invite you. Yeah. Did not know what was going on. And it feels very jarring when that happens because we, it's almost like we're being thrust into a world that we have no idea how to navigate.

Tina Unrue: Not that parenting itself wasn't already difficult. But then you have this other thing happening inside of you that is, running parallel to, trying to parent your kid and, sometimes they seem connected, sometimes they don't. Yeah. Yours clearly was connected.

And so I feel just through all of this, there's gonna be moms who resonate. And How going through this kind of shift or awareness and the realization that, control is a farce, really... help me and others learn. How then did you show up differently for your daughter?


[00:30:33] Adding vulnerability to the mix
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I can tell you right now, I think the biggest thing that I started doing was, rather than trying to read her mind and interpret and have all of the answers, I let my own guard down and just started questioning and asking and communicating. It sounds really easy, But then you're in it, and we don't really do it because again, there's that label of, moms know everything.

How many years did it take me of being a mom to have to live up to that farce of, I don't know, everything, like, stop coming to me and asking me like, I'm tired of pretending I know, or you're making me feel stupid because I don't know, like, let me just tell you now that I don't know, go to Google.

Lauren Pla: Google knows everything, um,and I think one of the most important questions that we can learn to ask our kids is, what do you need from me? What do you need from me in this moment? My daughter is not a hugger. I'm a hugger. I will hug you if I don't know you like I am, like, put me on a corner and I will give out free hugs.

I'm a toucher, I'm a feely person. Yeah. she would probably run a million miles in the other direction. So when she is having a challenging moment in her life, it's my instinct and my inclination to go up to her and wrap her in my arms. Not what she needs. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't think of it in those, we just don't think of it in those terms.

That's a very simple example. But asking our kids not only when they're struggling, but even when they're, when they seem happy or content right. What do you need from me in this moment? And starting to actually understand and let them think about how do they answer that question. Don't tell me what I wanna hear. Tell me the truth.

Tina Unrue: Yeah. 

Lauren Pla: And I think that also, hopefully establishes for them, a way for them to, um, effectively communicate their thoughts and feelings even in future relationships, right? Like, say what you mean mean what you say. Tell me what you need. Like, I have no interest in being a mind reader.

It's exhausting . 

And half the time, maybe more we're wrong. 

Lauren Pla: Exactly. And I know we have to do that when they're infants and they're crying. But we, but even when they're infants and they're crying, even when they are toddlers and they're throwing a tantrum, it is not our job to stop the tantrum.

By the way, I'll tell you, I should run a course. I've never been the parent that gives a shit if my kid is screaming in public. I'm like, if you all don't like it, like I would probably not take a screaming toddler on a plane if I could avoid it, just because I think that would stress me out. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. 

Lauren Pla: But if my kid is throwing a tantrum like in line at Target, I could care less.

Who looks at me, who judges me. My toddler who does not have the capacity to speak his emotions, is acting on his emotions. He clearly needs something. I cannot figure it out in this moment. We're taught to punish and we're taught to, like I, this one mom from, I wasn't there. It was a mom telling a story about another mom where the mom online with her kid was crying and she was saying it.

If for every minute that you cry, I'm putting back one of these toys. It was like Christmas time. Oh God. Like my heart just broke. Yeah. 

Like, oh God. Like that's so not an effective strategy. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. 

Lauren Pla: But it's not the mom's fault because the mom is stressed, because people are judging her and they're looking at her and she's just trying to be like, I'm a good mom.

I know how to stop my kid from throwing a tantrum. No, the throwing the tantrum is because he doesn't have words. Being unconditionally there for your kids, um, you know, boundaries are important. I'm not saying you're a doormat, you can't do that. Kids need structure to feel safe, all of that.

But, um, you know, being able to say like, what do you need in this moment? 

Tina Unrue: It's powerful question. 

Lauren Pla: I think that, yeah, I just, I, it's probably the easiest because I'll tell you, once I started asking that question, everything I thought they did need that I was doing without asking was totally off base. 

And then you're exhausted. 

Tina Unrue: Because arguably what you were offering was probably what you somehow, subconsciously wanted yourself. 

Lauren Pla: Hundred percent hun. probably not even subconsciously, consciously, probably. 

Oh, hug would make me feel better. Or this would, or I would do this. I would.

So that's where your ego, you don't realize it in those terms, but that's our ego. That's our ego, where we're addressing the problem based on what we need or what we think our children need. And we're just not bridge the gap and ask the question and be vulnerable, be open to saying, I don't have all the answers, but I will protect you.

I am here for you in whatever way you need me. That probably makes your kid feel even more safe.

Right? 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. 

So I'm really curious, do you have any stories or recollections? And if not, advice, any type of input as to how parents can navigate then the messy middle, because you know what you're talking about sounds incredibly wonderful and peaceful on one end.

We can hear how it transformed your parenting. 

Lauren Pla: So you, it was incredibly self-serving in the fact that realization came and it was like, oh my God, I don't have to control anymore. Because I literally cannot control it anyway, not unless I bubble wrap her or never let her leave the house and... 

chain her in the basement.

Tina Unrue: and that's just... okay. Just in case anybody's listening, that is not allowed. 

Lauren Pla: bad too causes its own slew of other problems. 

Tina Unrue: Yes, it does. 

There's this kind of logical understanding, like, okay, I can adopt the understanding or even practice it, let's say, of not needing to control as much. So I can see that I need to pull back, right? And I can ask my child, what do they need from me in this moment? But yet if I know that my child, let's say, struggles with device limitation or device usage, I'm just throwing that out there as a, an example, right?

We can't just say, what do you need from me? and have that child continue to possibly, struggle, with maybe an addictive personality, right? Because they are using the device too much. And maybe they would benefit from boundaries like you mentioned earlier.

So do you have any guidance and what would you tell a parent if they came to you and said, look, I don't, how do I, where is that bridge? How do I get from what do you need from me to , get the F off the device, right? where do I fall in the middle? Yeah. What do you say to that?


[00:37:37] Bridging the gap
---

Lauren Pla: So two things. First of all, it's, it's it's funny in a way,when you said the messy middle, ultimately what I want to say, as a mom as fellow human as a person, as a compassionate person, there is no way that I have everything figured out. Certainly, and , I can sit here and give really thoughtful, great feedback or advice, if you wanna call it that. I wholeheartedly believe and, 24 hours from now could be literally crying in the bathroom because I can't follow my own advice because my messy middle is happening and I feel completely unable to control anything.

I want to normalize that and like validate that because you made the point, Tina, where you said, you might even be able to adopt it, adopt the thought and practice it. I know a lot of things that I can't practice a hundred percent of the time. 

And then by the way, I will judge myself on the fact that I know better and I should be able to do X, Y, and Z.

And I will caution everyone right now that self-compassion in those moments, and I'm speaking to myself as clearly as anyone else right now, self-compassion in those moments is what gets you through the messy middle. Is just recognizing that some days you're gonna feel like a rockstar and a superhero, and like you're able to conquer the world and then two days later you're gonna be like, what in the hell is happening?

Tina Unrue: Yes. 

Lauren Pla: And you're gonna question, I thought I had it figured out and now I don't. Somehow we gotta not do that. If I figure out the answer to that, I will happily provide the how we do that. It's such a rollercoaster and the acceptance of the fact that it is a rollercoaster is really key to, it's like the more you release control, the more control you have.

Tina Unrue: So true. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah. It's just, it's funny, but it does work that way. Specifically when you mentioned like screen time, just as an example,I don't pretend to know the psychological answers, I guess to, specifically work with kids of any age who are, uh, screen dependent, or, you know, if you wanna say that they feel like they're addicted to the screens.

I, , I, certainly put my kids in front of screens, because parenting is hard and you need a break. And sometimes Dora the Explorer, you know, I was like, oh, great. they're learning something. it was when my kids started speaking fluent Spanish that I was like, maybe she's in front of the screen too much.

No, I'm just kidding. . . But 

Tina Unrue: I was gonna say, wait, my daughter watched that show and did not do that.


[00:40:37] Meeting our kids where they are to build connection
---

Lauren Pla: No, it's, it happens. I am a Dr. Shefali fan, Shefali Tsbary, who wrote Conscious Parenting, and I do like a lot of what she says, and her theories on parenting and of, becoming a more conscious parent. And I get all of that and I think it's really beautiful.

But she was only one of the many psychologists that I've heard, talk about, when our kids are really, um, performing any kind of a behavior in a, what's the word I'm looking for? Like a, a lot, trying to think of the word, like in an excessive thank you way. and you can think of this for ourselves too, right?

If we're doing something in excess, it's because we're craving something. We're trying to fill a hole. We're definitely, trying to feel a certain way, fill a hole, experience something. So not saying and not even believing that there's a 100% right answer to this. To your point, if your kid is on the screen or on the TV or the games, you can't go interrupt and be like, what do you need from me in the moment?

Tina Unrue: The kid's gonna be like, I need you to get outta my room so I can play my game. Exactly. 

Lauren Pla: So you do have to be conscious enough and aware enough to understand what is your kid getting from being on the game that they might be able to get from you. And this is not to say that you are ever going to be able to replace Minecraft or what is that?

Was that the name of it? Minecraft. 

Tina Unrue: I know that was a video game, right? Yeah. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah. Video game. The kids wanna play the games and that's fine. Like, mommy's not gonna take the place of these games. But, Dr. Shefali has just said like, there are certain things that the kids will be looking for, they wanna be seen.

And when they're, on with their friends and they're chatting and they're feeling, they're connecting in a way over this game. So they're feeling very seen and understood by their peers. Another aspect was that she said they wanna feel successful. If you're playing a game for eight hours a day, you're getting really good at it.

And when you beat the level, that's instantaneous success to these kids. 

Yes. So maybe they're looking at it because they feel successful. That's not something to turn your nose up at or like, disregard for them. Like, you might even wanna be like, wow, you're, you're on level 10? When did you start playing this game?

That's amazing. Tell me like, what did you have to do? How did you get, we have to be crafty as parents, and I have older kids now, but I imagine that with, anybody who has younger kids, like you have to fake interest sometimes. But the point of faking the interest in what they are interested in is you're not faking interest in your child.

So you, you just gotta be willing to be like, all right, like, you clearly love this game. I want you to be happy. I want you to feel safe and seen and heard and all of these things. Tell me what you love about this game. Can you show me how to play it? Can I play with you for a little while?

And you're, what you're doing is you're infiltrating their little world of what they've created for themselves, because that was the easy way for them to do it, because they didn't know that they could come to you and be like, Hey mom, I really want you to make me feel successful right now. Like, how? Okay, great.

Do the laundry, fold it. You'll be successful. That would be amazing. 

Tina Unrue: Right. It's so fascinating you said that. I think it's really perfect. Imperfectly perfect. Perfectly perfect. 

Because you're right, none of us has all the answers and we only know for ourselves what feels right and true within us and within our own families. 

Lauren Pla: Exactly. 

Tina Unrue: We, we know when we have that gut instinct that something might be wrong, Or that something needs some attention or something like that. So kind of like you, my daughter does, she does get, I wouldn't say addicted to screens, but she definitely uses them, more than I would like.

She uses them excessively at times. But she's also one who like, it'll be a lot of device usage for a while, and then all of a sudden she'll just go dark and she'll be reading books, Yeah. And then we go back to a device, right? So I see that ebb and flow as something that I'm willing to allow, and I don't put a whole lot of restrictions on it because I've seen her develop over time an incredibly responsible. healthy relationship with devices. And so it's like you're saying, right? Like even though I could see it in use in excess, yes. And I can feel myself questioning, am I doing enough? Should I be stopping this? Yes. I stopped myself because what you were saying that I'm gonna put language to, because this is what I also preach a lot.

I try to do it in my own home. I fail and I succeed all the time. but I wanna meet my child where she is. 

Lauren Pla: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: And that is not always where I am. We are not at the same place. And I want to model more support and interest and understanding than I do control or authority, or just obligatory following. Like, I want my daughter to be a critical thinker. I want her to question me, even though I hate it. , I, . it's just all of it, right? It is the messy middle. And so I, I think what you said was beautiful and it was important. It's like, you know, try to just tune into your child as much as you can. Don't jump to assumptions and then act act on the assumptions. 

Curiosity is where it's at. 

Lauren Pla: Curiosity. I mean, you could do that too, right? In those moments where she is on the screen and it's bugging you out a little bit and you're like, Ugh. I know that she ebbs and flows, but right now I'm bugging out.

Curious. You could go to her and say like, I'm literally just curious, like, what is it? Like you've been on here a lot. Like what are you getting out of this? Like, what are you playing like and open that communication. Even that is gonna be better than, not saying anything and never knowing.

Tina Unrue: Exactly. 

We wanna be curious and we want our kids to know like we're invested. Like what are you doing? This is, this interests you? Like that? Tell me why it interests you. Like this is so fascinating. I love that so much because we're giving our children the permission to show up, take up space.

Lauren Pla: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: And be seen 

Lauren Pla: Completely. 

Tina Unrue: No performance. 

Lauren Pla: And then the next thing that they're interested in, they're gonna come to you, and say, oh, you wanna see like, mom, I started a new game. You wanna see, and it's, that builds the connection. 

Tina Unrue: Exactly. 

Lauren Pla: When you have connection and you have communication, those, those are the things, if they can be built at a young age, when these kids get into their teenage years and they're programmed to pull away from us, they're going to have the foundation to be able to come to us when it's important, right?

Because, and again, these are things that I just don't think parents are learning young enough. I think the world is changing. I think it's definitely more, more now than it was when I was a young parent, but, ultimately most young parents, like you said, it's that, it's, we're raising these kids based on control.

Even though it's out of love, it's based in control, just because we think that's what we're supposed to do, , right? One person said, your kid shouldn't have more than an hour of screen time, and your kid is some days, four hours of screen time. So you're immediately like, get off the screen.

Meanwhile the kid is, I don't know, playing some sort of, astrophysics game where they're gonna, launch the next, it's like you just never know. That's right. But if you're involved and you're asking and you're like, show me what you're working on, show me what you're doing, then you have an in.


[00:48:23] Giving yourself permission to pivot and pause
---

Tina Unrue: Exactly. And this is something that I had to tell myself too, is you are not committed to the decision forever. 

Lauren Pla: Correct. 

Tina Unrue: So if I tell my daughter so far, yes, you can go ahead and use a device, yes, you can play that game, Yes. I won't put limitations on you, right?

Tomorrow I can say, you wanna know what I changed my mind. 

Lauren Pla: Right. 

Tina Unrue: And we have to accept that there will be fallout from that. And our children deserve to understand the change in rationale. 

Lauren Pla: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: And they won't always be happy. 

Lauren Pla: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: But at the end of the day, we are the parent, and when we tell ourselves and give ourselves the permission to make a change when we feel the need to possibly make a change, then I think it takes a lot of the pressure off. Because I feel like, again, we're at that perfection thing. Like we have to know all the right answers right now and we have to decide this thing like right now. And things can compound and things can build on each other. But if we ever feel like something's going sideways, something's wonky, even if we just wanna take a pause. 

Lauren Pla: Yes. I have done that, by the way. I think that's a great tool. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. 

Lauren Pla: In the moment I find it really hard to sometimes be rational or know what I wanna ha how I wanna handle a situation.

For me, again, my kids are older, like, for instance, like I, I'll found out, my kid drank at a party. , If I can't handle that right in the moment of finding out, like, I'm not in, I'm not on a sitcom where it's written out for me and I have the perfect thing to say.

Lauren Pla: So I will literally be like, okay, like I had, I have this information, I need to sit with it and I'm gonna come back to you and you're just gonna have to wait for me to come back to you. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. Yeah. 

Lauren Pla: I buy myself time all of the time. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. It's such a loving thing to do. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: Really 

Lauren Pla: For yourself, by the way.

Tina Unrue: And our kids 

Lauren Pla: Self love 

Tina Unrue: And our kids. 

Lauren Pla: Both. 

Tina Unrue: Even if they don't think so. 

Lauren Pla: Exactly. 

Tina Unrue: Because you probably don't wanna have to wait to hear what you have to say about their poor decision. But I promise they want us to wait. 

Lauren Pla: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: Before we respond. 

Lauren Pla: It is, but it's, it is, it's self-love and love for the kids to just be able, because you are taking a moment to regulate yourself and show up in the best way this goes.

This is a great way to circle this out. This goes right back to your personal product of perfection. Your personal perfect branding, right? . You take a pause and you show up to that situation in your integrity, in your core values and figure out what that is. And then you are doing, you are giving a gift to your child by showing up the most conscious way possible and a gift to yourself because you're not in fight or flight.

Tina Unrue: And you're giving yourself the per permission to be in the messy middle. The unknowing. 

Lauren Pla: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: While you navigate what the right answer is for you. 

Lauren Pla: Yes, 

Tina Unrue: for sure. 

Lauren Pla: Yeah, completely. 

Tina Unrue: I think that's the best way to human. And it's human. Just a human. Yeah.

Lauren Pla: I love it. I love it when human's a verb.

Tina Unrue: Me too. 


[00:51:40] What matters most in this season
---

Tina Unrue: So as we wrap up, tell me what is mattering most to you in this season of life? 

Lauren Pla: In this season of life. Woohoo. I personally struggle a lot with, like, I have real hardcore deep feelings about the biology of this situation that our kids are programmed biologically to hit an age where they pull away because they're supposed to become independent people. But parents do not have that same biological milestone.

And some parents deal with it a hell of a lot better than I do, which God bless. But I have found it excessively difficult to not feel, pain when my kids pull away from me. And I say this as vulnerably and authentically as I can just because it's been my personal challenge. Like, I am surrounded by parents, whether they are putting on a brave face or not, I don't know, but who are, who seem to me like they have just done such a good job at hitting all the milestones and having a good relationship with their kids and their kids are going off to college and they're just loving all of it.

Lauren Pla: And I find that completely amazing. I have struggled so much with it that sometimes I can't control my own emotions. 

And so when I went through with my daughter, what I did when she was 16, part of what was achingly difficult was just that I felt like I was losing her and that was gonna be the end.

And her perspective was obviously so different, but for me it was just my heart was breaking. I just felt like my heart was breaking and I couldn't fix it. And then we got through that, by the way, skipped to the end, right? She's 23 now, and she, we have the best relationship and it's, I, my husband will say to me, do you remember when you were going through that?

And I'm like, I do, but it just feels like it was eons ago. Now my son is 16 and, everybody always told me that girls were harder than boys. And I'm calling bullshit right now in my own life. Again, everybody's experience is different. So let's just take that myth right off the table because I am finding my son, and his, current, dramatic life, um, challenging for me at least.

Any who? So to answer your question,he now is at the age and he, by the way, was my sweet little huggable cuddly one. Where my daughter was never really cuddly, he was like, he would cuddle with, he cuddled with me until he was like 14. . But now he's a man and he's, six, six feet tall and muscular and he walks around half naked and he is got abs and I'm like.

And, so he's pulling away as he should and I find it, I just find that part of parenting really hard. 

And they do come back, but they don't come back the way that they were and I don't really know that there's an answer or a remedy for something like this. It's for me at least, recognizing that, in this season of life, that's what, how you worded it is what got me thinking about this, is, being really present, I have to remind myself numerous times a day to enjoy the crap. I don't know how else to put it.

It's like 16 and a half year old boy, blasting music that I don't like. And I like a lot of music, but he picked the one genre that like, I cannot and I gotta deal with it. Yeah. and just doing what I can to stay connected to him. Which brings me back to legitimately asking him how can we connect today. If I want some time with you, how are you willing to give me that time? Like, mom needs this, like, and being vulnerable enough to say to him like, I really need this. Like, are you willing? Like, can we figure something out? And being, enjoying all of the messiness of it cuz I'm in it right now. Like, I, it's messy every day and it sounds like such bullshit to say, enjoy every moment. And Tina, specifically with our coach training, right? Level six, level seven. It's like joy in the chaos. 

Tina Unrue: Yes. 

Lauren Pla: It's really, that's easier said than done. 

Tina Unrue: Yes. 

Lauren Pla: But I can do it sometimes when I remind myself, when I'm conscious enough in the moment to say, all right, this moment is sucking, but is it really sucking?

Or am I making it suck because I'm resistant to it? 

Tina Unrue: Oh my God, it's such a good question. 

Lauren Pla: I need post-its though, like all over my house to remind, like, let me be clear. Like it is not easy To do in the moment. It, this is really a practice. Yeah. and so I had some practice with my daughter. I'm having practice again with my son.

If I had maybe 11 more children by the 11th, maybe I'd have it down Really good. But, yeah, it's just taking a step back, and telling myself, reminding myself that he really is on his own beautiful journey and man, am I curious to see where it goes? What is he gonna be, what is he gonna do?

This is the alternate thought process. Cuz there are the days where I'm like, oh my gosh, what is he going to be and what is he going to do? You know, right. 

Tina Unrue: The inflection matters in the tone right there . 

Lauren Pla: Like, he will be living with me when he's 35 , and then parlaying that over to, wow, this is really fascinating.

Like, what is he into? So it's it's a lot of work. it's really a lot of work. It's a lot of inner work and a lot of mental work and emotional work and just that open communication. And I think the work that I've been doing and the learning that I've just been really embracing the last couple of years is,I know how much it helped me when I started embracing these ideas.

Lauren Pla: And so I believe that it will help other parents to start embracing these ideas and start thinking about these things. And it's certainly not universal, but I did find it,pretty profound. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. I personally believe that our lives are about ourselves, selfishly. 

At the end of the road and I'm spiritual very much I think like you are, even though we didn't touch on that today. Maybe I'll have to have you come back and talk about that. 

Lauren Pla: A second. Part two, . 

Tina Unrue: Part two. But I believe at the end, of this road, it's gonna be about us. It's gonna be about how we showed up and how we treated others and the lessons we learned and the work that we were willing to put in to maximize this life and leverage the opportunities that we had, right? Just all of it, our lives are about us. 

And so what I hear you saying is that what matters to you right now is really just practicing that, just really embodying what can I learn right now and how do I continue to practice presence and connection and just really be there for the people that I love?

And I absolutely adore that. So thank you so much for being so incredibly present and connected with me today. I literally,so appreciative you decided to spend time with me today and share your story with those who are gonna listen. How can people find you if they would like to follow up? 

Lauren Pla: Yeah, it's absolutely my pleasure really a deep pleasure to be here with you and to talk about these things. I think that, they've just, it's meant so much to me. So I think having these conversations is just so important. And having them, openly and vulnerably. And, so I very much, am in appreciation of you for, having this podcast and having this forum and allowing me to come on with you.

So thank you for that. Also, quick note to what you said about learning. Our children are our biggest teachers. 

Tina Unrue: Amen.

We have to be willing to be the student though. 

Lauren Pla: Correct. So that would be, I think you articulated back to me very well, that thought process. It's really reminding myself just to.

What, what is he here to teach me? What is she here to teach me? What am I learning? And then legacy wise, right? If, how can I, if I can even help another parent or bring that to somebody else. It just starts a ripple effect across the world with how we become one, right? Our community. And just that's for the spiritual conversation part two.

So I appreciate you. I, am I have a website, that's probably the easiest way to reach me. All my information is on there. It's, you'll have show notes, I guess you can spell it out, but it's Uh, www.hinenicoaching.com. Hineni is a Hebrew word that means I am. So selfishly, selfishly,I think it, like you said, it all comes back to us. What are we here to do in the world? How are we here to show up? What are we here to learn? Our personal inner power, I think, is, where the magic happens. So that's why I named it that. And I'm on Instagram, at Lauren Pla p-l-a, that is my husband's last name.

Lauren Pla: I take no credit for it. 

Tina Unrue: Well, thank you again. I will definitely put, your contact and your links, in the show notes. And, again, it was a pleasure. So thank you so much. 

Lauren Pla: Thank you. My pleasure. 

Tina Unrue: I hope that you enjoyed that podcast as much as I did. I found Lauren to be almost like my soul sister. We definitely saw eye to eye on spirituality and the human plane and using imperfection and vulnerability as a bedrock for cultivating deep connection, not just with ourselves, but with those that we love.

It's so important. And even though my daughter's only 13, You know, I can just see the beginnings of, her pulling away and doing the things that teenagers do in order to really find themselves and see where they separate from us. Where our ending is and where their beginning is. I believe that that's the whole process of, of becoming a teenager and their self-growth, journey is one that I know is not easy. I so appreciate Lauren explaining how difficult that pulling away is for her. And, I'm gonna be on the lookout, certainly for myself and how I show up when my daughter continues to do this more and more. And so, Lauren from the depths of my heart, I thank you so much for being my first guest.

I certainly am contemplating having you back cuz we have a lot to talk about when it comes to spirituality. And for all the listeners, what resonated with you? What did she say that stuck out? I would love to know. 

You can find me and Lauren on Instagram. I'll drop our contact information in the show notes. And if you enjoyed this episode, I would be deeply honored if you would leave us a review, share the podcast, rate the podcast just so that other mamas who might need to hear this message can find it and maybe get the same benefit that you did. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for daring to be selfish, and we hope to see you next time.