From Borneo to Branding: Amy Goodall on Disruptive Design, Adventure & Transformation

Imagine embarking on a daring adventure, a journey that transforms you from an ordinary individual to a confident and successful leader of your own life. That's the journey my guest, Amy Goodall, a renowned brand &. visual identity designer, has embarked on. She turned things around with courage, transformation, and a spirit of adventure. From leading an exciting youth development expedition to Borneo, to switching  from retail to a design account, Amy's path has been lit up by her readiness to take risks and embrace the things that truly bring her joy.

Amy's approach to visual identity design isn't just about aesthetics; it's about helping businesses stand out, leaving a lasting impression. She believes in injecting personality, quirks, and humour into work to make it more enjoyable and attractive to potential clients as well as the importance of investing in ourselves and our businesses. But Amy's life isn't all about work and success; she also shares her experiences with motherhood—how it taught her the significance of joy, connection, and fun in life. Let's reimagine what life can be by approaching it with a sense of play...

Connect with Amy over on Instagram or go to https://www.madaboutthebrand.co.uk/ for free resources and more info on how to work with her.

Chapters

• 0:00 Adventure, Transformation, and Taking Risks
• 13:19 Discovering Leadership and Personal Growth
• 23:27 Business Coaching and Value-Based Pricing
• 27:44 Empowerment and Personal Growth for Women
• 35:55 Embracing Fun and Play in Life
• 43:34 Approaching Design With Fun and Purpose

Transcript

Amy Goodall: 0:00

Even though I'd found it hard to adjust to being in the jungle, I found it way harder to adjust coming home, because I felt that my outlook had changed quite a lot.

Zoe Greenhalf: 0:15

Hello, it's Zoe and welcome or welcome back to the Mischief Movement podcast, your weekly inspo for people looking for more hell yeah in their life. Consider this you're one way to get out of mid-life mediocrity towards fun and positive impact via playful disruption. Wouldn't you love to wake up and feel like a total badass? How about breaking some rules, throwing two fingers up to society and doing more of the things you love? I'm talking full-on freedom, adventure and those meaningful connections I know you've been craving. Stop waiting for your amazing life to happen and go get it.

Zoe Greenhalf: 0:53

I'll be picking the brains of some true game changers and mischief makers so I can share what I find and hopefully inspire you to shake things up, do more of what makes you feel alive and boldly rebel against the ordinary. I have no idea what I'm doing, to be honest, but I've got a mission and I'm here to start a movement. It's going to be quite the adventure. Care to join me? Okay, here goes. In today's episode, I'm joined by the bold and adventurous brand visual identity specialist, amy Goodall, also known as Mad About the Brand. Amy believes that true transformation is an adventure and knows that the journey is just as important as the destination, so we are going to dive deep into her world, where travel, self-confidence, taking risks and following your heart defy conventional logic. Buckle up as we traverse the landscapes of brand identity, delve into her time as a project leader on a youth development expedition to Borneo and discuss the significance of saying yes to the things that light you up and figuring them out later.

Amy Goodall: 2:10

Hi, hello, hello, yeah, there she is. She's so far. It's so funny. We've known each other for so long and yet have never spoken.

Zoe Greenhalf: 2:22

I know, and now you said that. I just kind of wonder why I know?

Amy Goodall: 2:28

Yeah, I don't know. I think we've always just kind of watched each other, enjoyed each other's kind of posts and stuff. But yeah, it's funny, isn't it.

Zoe Greenhalf: 2:39

I wanted to show you this. The listeners won't be able to see it, but look.

Amy Goodall: 2:43

Yes, good girl Love it. I should have worn mine.

Zoe Greenhalf: 2:48

I've got my stranger, my H&M kids, stranger things oh it looks good though, but yeah, I thought I'll dig out my t-shirt, because I think that was my first sort of like interaction with you. Is it where?

Amy Goodall: 3:03

Yes, yeah, when I was, I should be.

Zoe Greenhalf: 3:06

Yes, oh yeah, because you changed.

Amy Goodall: 3:08

Yeah, I just realized that I didn't want to be selling goods Like. That wasn't my passion and I never. I always was doing the design in the background and I kind of thought I was telling myself, oh, I want to be in big stores and John Lewis this, that the other. And then I thought I don't know if this is what I really want to do. And it was also very difficult managing two Instagram accounts and obviously it was ironic because I built up the following on that. So I knew that there was probably going to be some drop off when I changed it to a design account, but actually not that much. I just think there's loads of people who never see my contents. They probably don't know that I've changed. But, yeah, I'm happy where I am now.

Zoe Greenhalf: 3:59

Well, that's quite a nice segue for me to ask you. In that case, what is your, your main mystery for Amy?

Amy Goodall: 4:07

Wow, there's a question. I mean I would say I was. I kind of have adventure in my heart, and certainly in kind of maybe the last decade. I just have felt that, maybe even longer ago than that, just saying yes to things that you know at first kind of thought, if I, if I let myself really think about it, I'd be put off and scared and just think, oh, no, no, no, no, I can't do that. But I just think I've got this kind of like just say yes, figure it out, and it will become clear whether that's something that I really want to pursue and really want to do.

Amy Goodall: 4:50

But I've always had a bit of a kind of like when I went travelling back in 2007, after I'd done my rally expedition, my friend came to meet me and we had this plan and we had our ticket and it was kind of set which countries we want to go to.

Amy Goodall: 5:10

And then someone else had been to the Philippines and I just was like enamoured and fell in love with the pictures and I just thought I've got to. Whilst I am out here doing this thing, I have to just make it happen and get out there and we did it and it was absolutely just mind bogglingly amazing. And I've done other stuff, like dark things, where I kind of thought you know that wasn't a particularly sensible thing to say yes to. But again, it's just, it was a complete adventure and I lived through it. There was one particular one that I nearly didn't actually live through, so I can tell you about that if you want. But yeah, I think it's just saying yes to stuff that when I then start to think about it afterwards I'm like actually this is quite scary, but I'm going to do it anyway. Ok, I think I've.

Zoe Greenhalf: 6:02

I think I've found why we have this kind of mutual appreciation for each other, Because I think it is that kind of adventurous streak of just saying yes and then going with it. It's like wherever it's going to go, it's going to go.

Amy Goodall: 6:17

Exactly and not kind of necessarily needing to have it all figured out at the beginning as well. I just think everything I do, whether it's in my kind of personal life or work life, you find a way to navigate your way through it. And I realize that once you have that confidence in yourself to kind of believe in yourself, you know that you can and you will navigate through anything thrown at you have you always felt like that, or is this something that you think is kind of developed over time?

Amy Goodall: 6:51

Yeah, definitely haven't always felt like that. So when I was at school and at university, actually I was very timid and I just didn't think that travelling was for me. And I remember my first boyfriend saying you're not a kind of well rounded person unless you've travelled. And I was so fearful of travelling anywhere that I just took that to heart so badly and thought, well, ok, so I'm not, I'm not a kind of valuable person because I'm too scared to travel, and I kind of, you know, brushed that aside. But I think it was always kind of inside me. I just think that I needed to go through my own process to get to a point where I felt ready to do it. Not everybody is ready to go and start kind of doing business development in a third world country when they leave university. We all have our own kind of time plan. But yeah, I would say that up until even when I was working in tennis. So I did 10 years working for the LTA. It was an awesome job, I really loved it and it was very you just felt part of a family. But whilst I was there, I was very, very safe, in my comfort zone and I just I kind of thought, you know, this is, this is for me. I love it. It's what I always wanted.

Amy Goodall: 8:20

After I finished uni I kind of didn't relent until they gave me a job. I was just relentless in my pursuit of getting a job with them. And then, yeah, I just think I had this real kind of mischievous moment where after 10 years, we went through a big redundancy situation and I fought tooth and nail for that job and I got it. I won the appeal. And the day I won the appeal I also got the email from Raleigh saying do you want to come to Borneo? And I just remember thinking, oh, no, okay, so I'm not going to do Borneo. Then that's such a shame.

Amy Goodall: 9:01

And then I just went for a walk around the car park and I paced around and around. I made one phone call to one person and he just said do what's in your heart, just forget about what your boss might think, forget about what your parents might think. And then I just came off the call with him and I just walked back in and I walked into my boss's office and he went no, no, no, no, not you as well, because loads of people were handing in the notice. I said I'm really sorry, I've just got to change, so that was the point. But yeah, I think I feel like I've lived my life in two stages. There was the fearful me and then the adventurous me.

Zoe Greenhalf: 9:45

That's really interesting. Was that the defining moment, do you think?

Amy Goodall: 9:49

that was the biggest decision I've ever made in my life. That, yes, did define the rest of my life, because I think the experience I had on Raleigh, it was so fundamentally life changing. And you know, I went through so many emotions and I remember when I got out there I just had this absolute freak out where I was crying a lot and I just felt incapable. I felt like the whole thing was a mistake. I was like, how did like? Why did you say yes to me? Because I can't cope with this, I can't do it.

Amy Goodall: 10:29

And someone said are you joking? You are one of the most capable people here, isn't that funny? And you are the person that keeps everyone's energy up when you know we're doing the really hard stuff. And I just kind of thought, well, all I've got is my sense of humour and everyone else. There were medics there, people who just looked like they could trek through a jungle, and I was a city girl, you know, who read Heat Magazine and loved lip gloss and shoes. And I just thought how have I ended up here? Seriously, like what is going on? And then, when that person said that to me, I was like, oh, okay, well, if you think that and I really respect your opinion. Okay, maybe that's okay then.

Amy Goodall: 11:15

But also what I realized was and I think I started trying to be this kind of, I just started trying to be someone I wasn't really inside. I was trying to pretend everything was okay and come across as like someone who was totally capable of doing it. But when I let go of all of that and just was myself and pretty much had a bit of a meltdown, then that was again another little defining point where I just thought you know what they all still really seem to like me, even though I am acting a little bit. You know I'm quite emotional and yeah, I don't know, I just there have been several defining moments, but yeah, that's handing in my notice. In that job was the first time that I just went. I need to go and grow and invest in myself, and that was it was a big investment in my own self development.

Zoe Greenhalf: 12:08

What was the catalyst to making that decision? Do you think had you got to a point in your career, with all the changing management and reorganization, where you were like it's just not doing it for me anymore? Or was there something a bit deeper going on?

Amy Goodall: 12:20

I think I could almost so if I'd stayed. I could almost see each day and each week and each month and predict and just know what was coming. And I think it was a decision of I don't want that anymore. Even though it feels super scary to leave, I just I want to be in a situation where I just can't predict what's coming. I don't even think that was a conscious decision. I think that's what I've realized looking back on it.

Amy Goodall: 12:55

But there was definitely an element of and I think also where I worked, there were a lot of people who kind of are in it for life. And I think again, without consciously recognizing it at the time, I knew I had it in me to do more and make my own way Again, what I didn't recognize whilst I was out doing rally was I actually am. I think I'm a leader and I think I'm only just recognizing now being able to say that but I am and I did, I did lead that you know there were some moments where actually how I was kind of relied on the end goal, like we got there because I was the one who was just able to dig deep somehow and kind of find pull this like mental strength from somewhere.

Zoe Greenhalf: 13:48

Yeah, I mean, I have also done a rally expedition. I did one two years before you.

Amy Goodall: 13:54

I didn't know that Did you know that.

Zoe Greenhalf: 13:56

Where did you go? I went to Costa Rica and Nicaragua and for me it was quite healing, actually, because my trip came off the back of not getting into Sandhurst. I wanted to be an Army officer and I didn't pass the selection board. Oh wow, I got this trip already lined up and I just kind of went there thinking I don't know what I'm going to do now. What am I going to do? And I remember having a bit of a meltdown while I was there going. Well, you know, I didn't get into the Army, the Army didn't want me. I'm not good enough. Am I good enough to be here?

Zoe Greenhalf: 14:34

And I think while I was there I realized that I did still have stuff to give. I think a lot of the feedback that I got was about my character, my personality, I think, and I really took it to heart. I really felt like, well, I'm not out to be a leader, so it's sort of like you, that's not what they're looking for. And so, because I'm not what they were looking for, I'm clearly not enough. And then when I went through rally, I mean I wasn't in a leadership position, I was there on the expedition and some days, like they get the people in the groups to be the leader for the day and you know you're kind of map reading or oh yeah, so you were a participant.

Zoe Greenhalf: 15:16

okay, yeah, yeah but yeah, I think the thing that I noticed, kind of touching on what you were saying, is that I set off with this idea that you know, being a leader and being confident is all about sort of exerting your authority and this kind of thing. And what I learnt then, and what I've been building on ever since, I think, is that, you know, confidence isn't about being the loudest person in the room, it's about being able to trust yourself and you can be a very confident person and just do it quietly. And you know leadership doesn't just begin and end with getting people from A to B. It's how are you going about that as well? Exactly, how do those people feel when.

Zoe Greenhalf: 16:08

Yeah, it's looking after people, it's having that sense of humour, it's having the determination, being able to dig deep when everybody around you is throwing their toys out the pram and you know I'm not walking any further. So I can really draw a lot of similarities with your journey.

Amy Goodall: 16:26

Yeah, that's so funny. I didn't realise you'd gone.

Zoe Greenhalf: 16:29

But it's interesting how you described earlier this kind of before and after. So if there was kind of one version of you up until the travelling moment, what was the version of you after that?

Amy Goodall: 16:44

I just had more belief in myself. But there was an element of validation, actually, I think, because so everyone wrote in each other's books at the end of it, and all the participants. So we had three phases and each phase I had I don't know 15, they weren't kids, they were.

Zoe Greenhalf: 17:08

Perhaps I ought to jump in and explain, or you can explain, like, what rally is for people who don't know.

Amy Goodall: 17:14

Yeah. So I think they started out as Operation Rally. Famously, prince William did an expedition, didn't he? And now they're rally international. They go to sort of far flung places to.

Amy Goodall: 17:31

I would say it was dual purpose. One of the purposes is to go and help people who need I don't know stuff built and they don't have the money and the funding to do it. And then the other side of that is to give youngsters from not just well, you know, kind of well off middle class people who can afford it, but they have a lot of charity spaces as well, and some of them will be local to the plate, the expedition country, some of them will be just other countries and then some, but a lot of them are British and it's, I suppose, youth development, team building, you know, for a lot of these kids to just kind of, as for some of them, realise that the world doesn't revolve around them. And actually that was something that I needed as well, because I think I had a very kind of insular, not quite self obsessed, but when you are like it was pre, pre marriage and babies, and you know, you are all you, just all about you, aren't you?

Amy Goodall: 18:41

And I really, really loved the fact that as one of the project managers I was kind of bottom of the pile. We were last to eat. That was a thing you would always be the last to eat. As you were project manager, I had to kind of. We literally washed in a mud river that had crocodiles in it. So appearance out the window and again it just kind of put everyone on a similar level. But yeah, essentially they are expeditions with these two purposes of getting helping where help is needed and then youth development for the participants who grow on expedition.

Zoe Greenhalf: 19:20

And when you came back, what did you do next? Was this the time when you kind of started thinking about starting your own business, or did that come along later?

Amy Goodall: 19:30

Yeah, no, it didn't happen right away. So when I got back I went through another mini crisis. It was even though I'd found it hard to adjust to being in the jungle. I found it way harder to adjust coming home because I felt that my outlook had changed quite a lot. So to my family, I was quite different.

Zoe Greenhalf: 19:53

In what ways can you think of something?

Amy Goodall: 19:59

I think I was probably just like much more open to relinquishing control and trying, because I think before I had been very because I was quite a fearful and probably quite insecure. My tendency was to want to control every situation and always know exactly what's happening. And then afterwards, I think, because you just had to kind of go, like one day you might want to carry on digging in the reed bed, but it's monsoon overnight, so it's full of water, so you have to completely bail out all that water. You just didn't know what was coming. So I think I got so used to dealing with the unknown.

Amy Goodall: 20:47

I like to think I was a lot more relaxed and chilled, and the reason I'm saying this is because for a little while I had to go back home and live with my parents and we both always found that just very, very difficult because I don't know I'd been through this crazy, crazy life-changing experience and people who hadn't been there. I found it hard for that reason as well. I just wanted to kind of be with the people I'd been with. So it was a really difficult adjustment to come back to. And then when I was thinking about, okay, what do I do next? I kind of didn't have a clue. But I had this other weird feeling of I'm out of the loop now and all my peers are kind of in this, quite you know, doing really well for themselves, and they haven't had this break. And I almost felt like, well, who am I now?

Amy Goodall: 21:46

You know, I used to think I was tennis girl. I worked in tennis and I went running. So what I did do was right, what do I love? And exercise was always kind of like that's just been a seam, a key kind of part of my life and my being. I love exercise. How can I get a job that gets me close to that but also kind of uses some of my skills? So I approached a gym and I did. I was like kind of membership retention If there were any events I would do those and I got free gym membership. So I was a bit like how can I make it work for me but also get back into, you know, having a job?

Zoe Greenhalf: 22:32

That's a really good point. How can I make it work for me?

Amy Goodall: 22:35

Yeah, which almost sounds a bit like selfish, but I don't think it does.

Zoe Greenhalf: 22:40

I think it's the right approach when you're going to work for somebody else, because it's got to be mutually beneficial.

Amy Goodall: 22:46

Yeah, yeah, exactly, and there was an element of it that was familiar because it was events, okay, not quite the same. It was still in a fitness world and yeah, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like each kind of step since then has been really like it needed to be there for a reason to get me to where I am now.

Zoe Greenhalf: 23:09

Yeah, I'd really like everybody to know where you are now. So.

Amy Goodall: 23:14

Where am I now? So I have. I've just celebrated my five year anniversary of running my own design studio. Congratulations, thank you. Thank you very much. It's very exciting and it was funny. So I'm having business coaching at the moment and it's really tiring because I'm having to think about everything I'm doing in a different way. But again I got to another point where I was like, are you actually going to do this like really properly? Because I know I'm capable, but I didn't know a lot about how to get to a point where I'm consistently working with the right kind of people and I feel that you have to invest to get to that next level. So I'm doing that at the moment.

Amy Goodall: 24:01

You know, what I do now is visual identity design. So working with business owners to go through their brand strategy, really get that in place and then do the visual identity afterwards. And I tend to just buy. I guess who I am attract people who are kind of mischief makers themselves and who are disruptors and which I love, yeah and who are potentially in an area that could be perceived as quite corporate and dull.

Amy Goodall: 24:32

Like I did a small project the other day I've just finished it logo design and said, oh, I'm a marketing, a virtual assistant and it can be quite dry and very corporate and I just want something that completely stands out and says fun. And I just love those kind of projects where I'm like, yeah, great, good for you. You know, and if the kind of their mission and their values and their brand business personality kind of backs all that up, then when you then design that visual identity that completely stands out in a sea of kind of same stuff, that's really powerful and that's when they begin to grow and, yeah, it's really exciting. I feel like I'm kind of on this bit of a precipice at the moment, where I'm about to take off.

Zoe Greenhalf: 25:31

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Amy Goodall: 26:43

So, okay, one of the big changes is realizing that I have a choice in my business, because I still have a tendency to be, I would say, a people pleaser, and that translates to my work.

Zoe Greenhalf: 26:58

Yeah.

Amy Goodall: 26:58

So there was nothing I would say no to, even though I knew it was potentially going to mean working till one, two in the morning, affecting the amount of time I'm with my daughter, my family, agreeing to discount my rates, and that's one kind of area where it's a real battle for creatives. Yes, I know, yeah. So I would say that you need to be able to charge your value and not charge your worth, because that's not quite the right way to go about it. It's charging the value that you are bringing and thinking of what you are going to be doing for their business. That will allow them to kind of grow from there.

Zoe Greenhalf: 27:44

Yeah, I think what you're doing when you talk about value is you're facilitating somebody's transformation, exactly. That's really powerful. It's not about how many hours it took you to create a logo. It's so much more than that, because the visual identity itself is so much more than that, and I know you feel very strongly about this when you're communicating to people. It's not just the logo, it's so much more than that Exactly. But yeah, I think, really, in your design world, you are helping to transform people and I think that's amazing.

Amy Goodall: 28:17

Yeah, and it's not just even transforming their business. They start to become a different person themselves as well. Yeah, and that's something that, again, is only just. It's funny, isn't it, how pennies drop for you at all stages of your life and that one is just kind of clang for me. And again so, the coach I'm working with, rachel Pearson she's just incredible, she's a really. I mean, a part of her appeal as well is she's so calm and nothing phases her. And I would say I've been quite emotional through this and again, it was really funny. I got to a point where I just realised I'm at that moment I'm back in the jungle, where I threw my toys at my pram and said I can't handle this and had a meltdown. But it was the kind of at home business equivalent and it's growth, and growth isn't easy. It's very, very I felt high as a kite and I felt absolutely the worst I've ever felt, and when I think back to other times that I felt that that was, it's the same thing. And again it's because I'm changing.

Zoe Greenhalf: 29:30

Yeah, and it's exciting. It's scary, but it's exciting as well.

Amy Goodall: 29:34

It's thrilling and I wanted to teach my daughter like I want her to kind of see that, because I had some experiences when I was younger where I felt I had people just trying to put me in my place and one of them was at school with some girls who weren't very nice, and then then with the boyfriend, who nice person, but he just believed he was a better person than me and had more value to give.

Zoe Greenhalf: 30:01

And I think no you just brought up there your daughter and I wanted to ask you if seeing you doing what you're doing is a big part of why you do what you do.

Amy Goodall: 30:16

Yeah, definitely. I feel I want to be this example to her that I feel quite strongly about not sort of pushing her to go through. Like when I was growing up, all the decisions I felt were made for me. I think it's a way that I regret any of them because I think they probably were right for me, but I was very much kind of I felt I had to just follow the rules and that was what you did and there was no option to do anything else.

Zoe Greenhalf: 30:46

Yeah, I'm nodding along in agreement, because I know, I know what you mean and I think that's where a lot of my rebellion has come from. Now, in later life, it's just the sense of I didn't do it. I didn't do it earlier on and so now.

Amy Goodall: 30:58

I don't want any. I feel exactly the same and I think I want her to feel that if she has a particular kind of passion, that is super valid. And I don't really believe that the path of school, university, find a vocational career is the way forwards. Because if you're not that kind of person who's going to be stimulated and happy in that, then that's a really sad thing if you're forced into it. So I want to teach her that she's a really valuable person Right from now.

Amy Goodall: 31:39

She is already like and I want to really give time for her opinions and her point of view because, okay, she's only eight, but she has some incredible insightful stuff to say. She's just an absolute little legend and I know she's very, very strong-minded and strong-willed. I can't think where that comes from. So I just want her to kind of use that and I want her to probably try and be her own boss a lot sooner than I did. I mean, sometimes I kind of think I wish I'd done this all sooner.

Amy Goodall: 32:14

But again, I always come back to I had to take the steps I had to take to get to it. You can't force that and rush it. I think if you do, you'll probably have a lot more bumps in the road. So, yeah, I want to teach her to stand up for herself, not feel that she has to conform and follow convention. I want to give her all the opportunities. I would like her to go to university because but not in a kind of I want you to come out with a first in law or medicine. I want you to just go and have an absolute blast for three years because, again, I think that's part of just like fun of growing up. I loved my time at university.

Zoe Greenhalf: 33:00

Where did you go? Which university were you at? I was at York. Oh, what a lovely city.

Amy Goodall: 33:05

It was amazing. Yeah, it was really lovely, and I met two of my closest friends there. We're all going camping. Please say prayers. I think it's going to be wet. We're going camping with all our kids next week.

Zoe Greenhalf: 33:17

You're talking about the drinks, obviously not the weather. Yeah, exactly.

Amy Goodall: 33:20

Yeah, definitely it's going to be messy. We haven't seen each other for a long time and I don't know. We've had a few WhatsApp questions, conversations recently where we're like is it meant to be this hard? Like, is it, are we meant to have this much stuff to handle? Was it like this for our parents?

Amy Goodall: 33:39

I just and that's another reason why I kind of feel like I'm doing a really good job of running my own business, because the amount of pressure like I you know, I have a full-time job and that's my own job, so I have to, and it's great that I can work it around school and pickups and my daughter that is really awesome. But it also brings other challenges. Like I can work late, like the switching off, the mental load is real, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I just think that, because we've had so much opportunity and choice, the downside of it is that you can get very sort of, I don't know, it's a lot of pressure, but then, on the flip side, I just kind of think, well, that makes me even more of a badass, because I'm doing it.

Zoe Greenhalf: 34:30

I was just going to say I'm so glad and so happy that you can recognise your achievements, because so many people get bogged down in the sense that they're not doing enough. You know, dedicating time to their business means they're not being a very good mum. Dedicating all their time to their children means they're not being you know, they're not dedicating enough time to themselves. And it's just this constant battle, isn't it? So I think anybody who can stand up and say, actually I'm doing a fucking good job, I think is fantastic.

Amy Goodall: 35:00

Exactly and again, that's something I've learned through working with Rachel. She's so celebratory and she says celebrate everything, even if you know the teeny tiny moments, because it's it then brings about a mind shift. And I think because I also spend quite a lot of time on my own because my husband works away, so it can be very easy for me to kind of sink into a bit of a everything's very hard right now.

Zoe Greenhalf: 35:29

Yeah.

Amy Goodall: 35:30

And to be able to have these kind of little tools to go OK, look back through today and pick out all the wins and write them down and look at them again tomorrow morning. It's a really useful thing to be able to do, to just kind of, because, when it comes down to it, the only person you can really rely on is yourself, so you need to be able to yeah, to do that and celebrate yourself.

Zoe Greenhalf: 35:55

I was just going to ask you actually what you do do when, when things feel hard. Is that one of them? Writing down your, your wins?

Amy Goodall: 36:02

Yes, so that's something I've started doing, really, really celebrating the tiny things, but also just exercise. It's always been exercise swimming, running, and also I'm really conscious to keep in groups of stuff. So I don't just go out for a run solo anymore, I do exercise like. I go to circuits, boot camp, I dance on a Tuesday, dances like another non negotiable. So my dance teacher, georgie, she is a human ray of sunshine and we kind of I stopped going because after having a baby I was like because I did burlesque which is something.

Zoe Greenhalf: 36:39

I always wanted to try so it's so fun.

Amy Goodall: 36:41

Find it, find it, go and do it. It's amazing. I don't do the burlesque anymore, although I did for a bit. But I do the kind of commercial dance and I wouldn't say I would say I was probably the most wooden person in the group and it takes me much longer than everybody else, but the joy is phenomenal. And the group of girls, they are all walks of life, all shapes and sizes, all ages and it's just such a lovely, lovely group.

Amy Goodall: 37:09

So, keeping in groups of things where you know, every Tuesday I'll you know when I'm having a bad week, I might feel I just don't want to go tonight I'm so tired and I've had a really bad day. And then I go, I just forced myself, just get in the car and go and I have the best hour. And then I come out and I'm like I'm so glad I went. Yeah, so often the case, isn't it? Yeah, I mean I listened to I'm not going to be able to remember the name of the guy now, but I can find it a podcast and it was with Dr Rangan Chatterjee and the person he was interviewing.

Amy Goodall: 37:44

He was saying about how community is a social vitamin and that sentence I just loved it and it's so true you need. And when you work for yourself at home on your own, you have to force yourself out there into places of connection. Yeah, because otherwise just wither away. Like connection is one of connection and community is one of my value, like brand. Yeah, mine too, absolutely. And yeah, you're doing that with, with this, you know your mischief movement.

Zoe Greenhalf: 38:14

I hope so. I'm definitely feeling the benefit of connecting. I love having these conversations so much. So, yeah, I totally, I totally understand about the connection value and and having that sense of community. It's so special. It just gives you another layer, I think to, to life.

Zoe Greenhalf: 38:37

Yeah, you know, this whole movement thing for me is it's come off the back of being in a phase of my life where I just felt like I was taking everything too seriously. I think it was a combination of becoming a mum and having that whole new world of responsibility and sort of reevaluating who I was and what I wanted and all that kind of stuff. But then I started taking it all too seriously and then one day I just kind of woke up and like what a bore you have become. It's all a world of responsibilities and trying to find your purpose, blah, blah, blah. I'm boring myself.

Zoe Greenhalf: 39:15

I think what I'd really like to do is just have more fun and that's it. Yeah, and not worry, not be that person who's like I've got to get an A in this and I've got to be the best at that, and if it's, you know it's not linear, I'm not doing it right. I think what I've learned is just follow the fun and you'll get wherever you're going, and it is a whole new concept for me. So how do you think I'm embracing? Yeah?

Amy Goodall: 39:42

I would totally agree with that, and I think motherhood is a real shock in a way, isn't it? I mean, it's a shock in so many ways and I felt like I had an identity crisis after I had my daughter and when I started I wasn't obviously doing graphic design. I started I should be and I was. That was my way of trying to have fun, because I just felt this social pressure of right, you need to get rid of all your nice clothes and you'll be covered in vomit and you know you'll never sleep again. And it's like, is there anyone out there who's got some good news for me? Because, like, that all sounds quite boring and yeah, that kind of there's a stubbornness to me.

Amy Goodall: 40:30

I was, I was kind of thinking I'm not doing it like that, and it's one of the ways I approached my relationship with my daughter as well, and my husband's the same. He's got this brilliant, wicked sense of humour and it was why we got connected and we both just try and have as much fun with her as possible and if she wants me to do, I know I used to find the days where I had to be Elsa for hours on end really not not going to lie, that was a struggle. But if she wants me to get my roller skates on and go out for a skate, I will try as hard as possible to say yes, unless there is something burning the urgent going on. And yeah, I just kind of I think we forget how to play, don't we? So you just have to kind of keep going into their world, rather than them just sort of just always seeing you at your computer.

Zoe Greenhalf: 41:31

Yeah, I need to do that more and I'm the first one to say that, but it is happening. I mean, I do remember reading something when I became a mum that said children are our teachers, not the other way around or worse to that effect and I didn't quite understand at the beginning.

Zoe Greenhalf: 41:50

But I see it so much clearer now, and especially when we talk about having fun and learning to play and sort of shaking off a lot of that seriousness. I do like to lean into what they want to do or what they're kind of instigating in terms of, like, playing games or doing activities and that kind of thing. So yeah, I think just trying to incorporate more fun and more play into daily life is really helping me a lot.

Amy Goodall: 42:21

Yeah, it just reminded me. When I worked at the LTA, I had to email the entire organization with the results of the tournament at the end of each day and I always, I just wonder. I remember thinking, oh, this is all a bit boring, isn't it? And it's kind of regards, blah, blah, blah, and I wonder I put a joke at the end and then I got so much lovely positive feedback I started doing it and I became the person who always put a joke at the end. Oh, I love that and it's that kind of just adding just a little bit of fun to something that could otherwise be a little bit dry.

Zoe Greenhalf: 43:03

I love that because I've been in the same position. I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but just that idea of taking something that's dry, as you say, and then adding that element of fun and personality is everything to me. And if I have to follow it and conform to what's you know how something's expected to be done, then I'm disappointing myself because I'm like there must be something I can add to this just to make it a little bit more interesting. And it seems like it seems like you you are having exactly the same thought Totally and I just kind of think, why not?

Amy Goodall: 43:41

Yeah, why do we have to do? Approach everything with so much seriousness, and actually it's something that I sometimes see in designers. It feels that a lot of designers take themselves very, very seriously. That's not to say that what we're doing isn't serious, because we're doing something that's going to help a business. Yeah, but I always try to approach it with fun. And I had a great client recently. We did a full kind of visual identity project and I can't remember how it started, but he started calling me Dave, but then he would always call me a blokes name but change it up, so I was calling him like Sandra or whatever. And again, it was something so tiny and so silly, but it just meant that the project was really, really fun to work on. Yeah, and I just think that if you can just add a little bit of your personality in that way into something, then why the hell not? Like you know, it doesn't all need to be so serious in kind of regards.

Zoe Greenhalf: 44:47

Yeah, well, I mean, I think your own branding is really fun and cheeky. I mean that's how I would describe it is cheeky. Thank you, yeah, I like that and I think, as you said, if you've got your brand on point, then naturally you're going to start to attract those brands, those kind of people, back. So it seems to be working for you.

Amy Goodall: 45:09

Yeah, I think it is. It's doing good, because he I didn't even know he existed. He literally just sent me an email. I said I've just been seeing some of your posts on LinkedIn. Actually, again, people talk about standing out. Standing out isn't the goal. It's attracting the people who needs to know about you. Hmm. So standing out, yes, but you could stand out for loads of wrong reasons. You need to stand out in a relevant way. Yes, I just think it's a line that I see trotted out quite a lot. Oh, I'll help you stand out, I'll help you stand out, but that's not giving the client the full information. It's like standing out to the right people in the right area for the right reasons. Yeah, there's just a bit more to it than that.

Zoe Greenhalf: 45:55

Yeah, so to give me your, your mission or your sort of elevator pitch for what you do, what would it be?

Amy Goodall: 46:05

My totally putting you on the spot. Now.

Zoe Greenhalf: 46:07

That's so funny because my business coach wants me to do a live talking about this, because it is really hard to whittle things down into something that's so succinct and I know this because I've been trying to create a business card this last week and it's just been like ridiculous. I would never believe that that it would take so many hours to come up with a tiny phrase for the back of the card. Yeah, what you might because you're in this kind of environment. Yeah, but the amount of, like headaches and revisions and just over one sentence. But it's so important.

Amy Goodall: 46:46

It is important and it's, believe me, it's so much harder to do it for yourself than for somebody else, because that's essentially what I get paid to do. Yeah, and that's what I do. I do it for my own brand strategy. That's what we're aiming for to nail down the purpose and the mission. So I just adore design. That's one thing.

Amy Goodall: 47:10

I am passionate about it, but that's from my perspective and, I think, because I feel like I have been through a fundamentally life changing journey. That's what I want to do for my clients. So, with my love of design, I help them on their fundamentally life changing journey and I help them with their transformation, their business transformation and their transformation as who they are, as a business founder. And I do that by nailing their brand strategy and designing a flexible visual identity, which means that everything they do, everything they say, everything they put out into the world is going to find their ideal customers. And I do all of that with just this kind of locked in feeling of team team, we're a team, you're amazing, so am I, we're going to absolutely boss this and a sense of humor that's beautiful. That wasn't one sentence. Let's do another podcast in a month and I will have it nailed.

Zoe Greenhalf: 48:30

No, but it was lovely to hear because it just sums everything up that you're doing at the moment. Thank, you.

Amy Goodall: 48:38

You're so welcome. I feel like I'm in a really good place. I feel really like I've definitely found my, my passion and my purpose and, yeah, I just kind of think I want to be that play, that part in helping people, with people with their own purpose, and the business that they're running is for a really, really good reason. They're not just making money. They've got a product or they provide a service that is changing lives.

Amy Goodall: 49:13

So, that's, and I want them to build their community, because that's when a brand can be really successful, when they have their own community. The design work I do is with the goal of them taking their customers along for the ride, so they're part of it. So I just like I have this. Really, I don't do well when I'm on my own. I love being amongst other people and I want to kind of just inject that into every project I do.

Zoe Greenhalf: 49:44

Yeah, I feel that I feel that so much because I also really want to be facilitating somebody's journey into being a change maker. Ultimately, I mean, I could I have I've used all these different adjectives trying to come up with the kind of person that I feel like I can help. Essentially, what it boils down to is I want to be out there being a change maker and that's exactly the kind of person that I also want to help, because if we're out there making the world a better place, exactly Everybody benefits.

Amy Goodall: 50:21

Yeah, and if you've helped just one person make a change. It's funny even when I go and I do my circuits, I just find myself naturally kind of. If someone's struggling, I'm like come on, you've got this, you can do it. Come on, yeah, come with me. And yeah, it's just, it's, it's part of my being.

Zoe Greenhalf: 50:39

Yeah, yeah, I get that. I get that too. What's the big vision for where you'd like to to go with your business, do you think?

Amy Goodall: 50:49

so I think, because I'm all about the journey, I haven't actually thought about that recently Because another kind of word, a phrase that just ricochets around in my head is and it sounds really cliched but the journey is the reward and I just I see what I'm doing now is taking me into a next stage of my journey. But I suppose I just, you know, want to just lean in more to that confidence of saying I'm a leader, I'm an expert in what I do, wait and see what happens. I think that's the best way sometimes.

Zoe Greenhalf: 51:31

Yeah, oh, amy, it's been lovely having a chat with you.

Amy Goodall: 51:34

Thank you Really lovely. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's been an absolute honor. Honestly, Again, for so long. I just and back to old me. If you said one day you're going to do a podcast, you know, even if I don't walk, podcast was bad, then I would have just laughed in your face. So it feels like I don't know, it's, it's just a chat, isn't it? But it feels again like another kind of little. Yeah, take that. That's another thing to celebrate. Exactly, I will be celebrating this big styling.

Zoe Greenhalf: 52:08

That's brilliant, thank you. Thank you for giving up your your time to talk to me. Oh, how many good things were there in that episode. So before I run out on you, I thought I'd just give you a quick run down of 10 of my takeaways from this episode. So, number one say yes to things and figure them out later. Number two we all have our own time plan. We have to go through our own process where we feel ready to do the things.

Zoe Greenhalf: 52:41

Number three comfort zones are great but predictable. Sometimes you just need to take a chance on that thing that's going to make you grow. Number four don't underestimate what skills, qualities or personality traits you bring to the table. There's just as much need for a sense of humor as there is for being the strongest or the smartest one in the room. Number five when you surround yourself with the right people and can allow yourself to be your whole self, they won't dislike you for it. They will probably love you even more. Number six you may not be born a leader or even have demonstrated leadership skills in the past, but that doesn't mean that you don't have them and that you're not cut out to lead. Leadership can be learned and leadership also comes out given the right circumstances.

Zoe Greenhalf: 53:41

Number seven having any sort of identity crisis is completely normal. If you feel stuck, start by asking yourself what do I love? And it will open new paths that you probably wouldn't have even expected. Number eight we all have a choice about what we agree to do. It's just a question of setting boundaries. Number nine celebrate everything as it brings about a mind shift. When you write down your small wins and read them again the next day, it sets you up for a much more positive day. And number 10, motherhood doesn't need to be boring. Having fun, bringing a sense of humour and remembering to enter our children's world and be playful can give it a whole different perspective. Same can be said for bringing fun and personality to a boring, dry work situation. We can still be serious and approach these things with fun.

Zoe Greenhalf: 54:55

Anyway, amy would really love it if you would like to join her community. She sends out email newsletters with tips and tricks to achieve visibility and growth, and the vibe is you know. It's very much a continuation of this discussion about journeying and adventure. All of Amy's clients are doing their something a little bit differently and, of course, therein lies the mischief. So it's not necessarily mad or bold or fierce. It could just be that their approach to a corporate environment is embedded with fun and creativity.

Zoe Greenhalf: 55:34

If that sounds like something you'd be interested in, then I will put Amy's information in the show notes and you can sign up to her newsletter or find out more about how to work with her from there. All right, my friends, for more inspiration on living mischievously, you can sign up to my monthly newsletter or jump into my DMs on Instagram at mischiefandhide. Obviously, if you enjoyed this podcast, then please do tell a friend or leave me a review wherever you download your episodes, which, of course, will help my mission to inspire and empower more people like us to choose mischief over mediocre. I will catch you next week and in the meantime, welcome to the rebellion, ciao.