Ever found yourself pondering if there's a secret recipe to lasting love in our swipe-right world? Kira Saban, a seasoned relationship coach, joins us to spill the beans on how to navigate the murky waters of modern dating and cultivate relationships that go the distance. Through our heartfelt discussion, Kira unravels her journey from the joys of singlehood to the nuances of marital bliss, emphasizing that the right mindset, sprinkled with practical tools, can indeed pave the way to partnership success. We get real about the online dating scene—its conveniences and its confusions, especially when it comes to the tango of gender roles.
Our candid chat doesn't stop at the surface; instead, we plunge into the depths of attachment styles and how these emotional blueprints shape our love lives. Personal tales emerge as we confront our own battles with anxious and avoidant tendencies, tracing their roots back to childhood and how they influence our adult relationships. This episode isn't about pointing fingers; it's about peeling back layers, advocating for our needs, and challenging the outdated scripts that have long directed the dance of dating. There's a powerful call to self-discovery and the quest to build stronger, more secure connections.
As we wrap up, the conversation shifts to the strategic plays vital in the pursuit of a love that lasts. We explore the emotional intelligence required to navigate the stages of relationships, especially in a world that often prizes fleeting connections over enduring ones. Kira leaves us with actionable dating strategies, urging listeners to choose with wisdom and engage in experiences that reveal true compatibility. Whether you’re a hopeless romantic or a determined pragmatist, this episode is laden with insights for anyone ready to embark on the intricate journey of love with eyes wide open and hearts poised for adventure.
Ever found yourself pondering if there's a secret recipe to lasting love in our swipe-right world? Kira Saban, a seasoned relationship coach, joins us to spill the beans on how to navigate the murky waters of modern dating and cultivate relationships that go the distance. Through our heartfelt discussion, Kira unravels her journey from the joys of singlehood to the nuances of marital bliss, emphasizing that the right mindset, sprinkled with practical tools, can indeed pave the way to partnership success. We get real about the online dating scene—its conveniences and its confusions, especially when it comes to the tango of gender roles.
Our candid chat doesn't stop at the surface; instead, we plunge into the depths of attachment styles and how these emotional blueprints shape our love lives. Personal tales emerge as we confront our own battles with anxious and avoidant tendencies, tracing their roots back to childhood and how they influence our adult relationships. This episode isn't about pointing fingers; it's about peeling back layers, advocating for our needs, and challenging the outdated scripts that have long directed the dance of dating. There's a powerful call to self-discovery and the quest to build stronger, more secure connections.
As we wrap up, the conversation shifts to the strategic plays vital in the pursuit of a love that lasts. We explore the emotional intelligence required to navigate the stages of relationships, especially in a world that often prizes fleeting connections over enduring ones. Kira leaves us with actionable dating strategies, urging listeners to choose with wisdom and engage in experiences that reveal true compatibility. Whether you’re a hopeless romantic or a determined pragmatist, this episode is laden with insights for anyone ready to embark on the intricate journey of love with eyes wide open and hearts poised for adventure.
Hey everybody this is Michelle and this is Julie. Welcome to a Blonde, a Brunette and a Mike podcast. What is our podcast all about, you ask.
Speaker 1:Well, we're 250-something women with life experience and, oh, bloody to say, which is exactly what we're going to do right now. We are here today with our special guest, Kira Saban.
Speaker 3:Hi guys, I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, she is an individual who we ran across when we were looking at all of our podcasting and the different individuals who are doing the same thing. We are, and she is good with relationship coaching, dating oh my gosh, right up our alley the things that we love to talk about. So thank you for being here with us today.
Speaker 3:I'm excited and there is nothing I like to dish on or spill the tea about the dating, because it is fucked up out there, right.
Speaker 1:Yes, ma'am, it is. So we I mean there's a plethora of topics we could be discussing, because I've listened to your episodes, as I'd mentioned, and I was like, oh my gosh, that resonates, oh my gosh that resonates, and I've sent it to a couple of different people where I'm like she needs to hear this, you know. So we would love to just chat about what you bring to the table and dating and just the things that you've uncovered recently in dating, and just share your wisdom and knowledge with us.
Speaker 2:And before we get started, though, kira, can you tell our audience just a little bit about your background and what brought you to all of this? Because it's amazing you have a long history and so much to offer with it.
Speaker 3:And you know there's. I wish there was like a Hollywood story behind this, because there's not really. I decided a while ago. I knew I didn't want to be a therapist, but I actually went to a friend who was a coach a life coach and said I think I want to change careers. I was actually working in youth and team development and we just started talking and she's like I kind of think you could be a coach. I'm like I kind of think I could too. And I literally sat down for about a year and said what do I want to talk about every day for the rest of my life? And like love came up, because it's this thing we are all wanting so badly and it just feels sometimes impossible. And I wanted to start understanding why some relationships work. Some relationships work, some don't. You know why some people meet their person in eighth grade and why some people never do or it takes a lot longer.
Speaker 3:And my own journey with just. I was single until I was 41. And and I was really happily single I was the type of person who was like I'm good, I travel a lot, I actually worked on cruise ships for five years of my life and there was a moment when I, when I turned 40, that my dad became very, very ill, and it was just a wake up call that I realized for me I had never prioritized dating relationships, any of it. I just kind of thought it was supposed to happen. And then, when it didn't happen, I was like, oh, this is scary now. So if it didn't happen by the time I was 25 or you know, I'm like, okay, well, that's success. So I guess maybe this is just not happening for me you know.
Speaker 1:and then, but were you, were you putting in the effort, yeah, the amount of?
Speaker 3:people who say to me and this is like. This is what I really believe is a truth is that or that I will say I'm gobsmacked about on a daily basis is how truly little thought we put into our potential life partner, Like how we do not have bigger discussions about this and, in fact, most of the information about love is about relationships. It's about how to fix what's not working. It's not about how to date and get something into something. That is and that's what I'm trying to do over here really loudly, really assertively and pretty swirly just saying like we can actually get into better relationships. We can do things, we can learn things while we're single and we can understand who we are, what we need, what healthy looks like and feels like, and do better getting into relationships.
Speaker 3:And in that time of starting this business, of learning all of these things, I ended up meeting Danny, who we got married in Mexico and 2018 or 19. I'm sure I'm supposed to know that and we it's our 10 year anniversary this year but we have created the most beautiful and stunning relationship that I could ever imagine, and so I know it's possible and I've just realized like we're so frustrated, we're so over it, but also we haven't put much thought and time in it. The thought and time we put in is swiping. The thought and time we put into it is mediocre dates where nobody really knows what to say or what to do or what they're looking for and honestly, I just think we can do better and I don't think we have to.
Speaker 3:It seems exhausting. It does seem exhausting, but it's also because none of us know what we're doing and for some reason, women think that there was like some film strip in fifth grade that guys got pulled into and saw and it told them all the wonders of the world and how to give women orgasms and stuff. And they didn't. They know less than we do and we keep giving our power away, our time away, our energy away to guys who are also confused and gender roles have shifted since you know what our moms or our grandmothers, the relationships they had. I didn't want the relationship that they had and we're not really talking about it or doing it very well. So dating feels awful because we have no intention. We have no like. This is what I'm looking for, this is what those qualities look like in real life and we're just trying to like holiday, shop for our boyfriends online and you know, in between scammers and, honestly, sex offenders that dating apps are not screening for, by the way, and doesn't like to talk about, don't?
Speaker 3:like to talk about right and just like, yeah, all of it. We're starting to believe that this doesn't exist anymore. And man, I am over here fighting for love. I think dating apps are a part of the problem, not a part of the solution at this point, because anything that's keeping us from love. So curiosity, I'm so excited. Where did you meet, danny? We met at a bowling alley in my hometown, so I will happily share this very unsexy, very unromantic story.
Speaker 3:So I know, so one of my good guy friends from high school had actually started dating somebody. He did a Valentine's challenge. So Valentine's Day is right around the corner and I did a challenge years and years ago and I just said I hate that Valentine's Day is like this, one day that we focus on romantic love. It's so stupid. Love is beautiful. It should be celebrated every single day. You know, we should not be like holding people up to some weird ass standard on one day of the year. Like let's raise the bar, people, right? Like why is that? Yeah, I mean, it's ridiculous, right.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 3:And then but if I'm not into things that are making things harder than easier, like I don't know, like I would much rather Danny and I find our moments together throughout every week than put so much pressure on one day or one weekend or vacation every year. Right, like that's so silly. But, my friend Rob, the challenge was tell everybody you know and love that you love them. That was it Like retell it to people a day and just say I love you, I'm so thankful you're in my life. And he did that. And one of them was a female friend of his who had recently gone through divorce and was like that's really, you know, touched me, that that meant a lot to me and they started dating and now they're married. By the way, they're totally, yeah, they're totally. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:So they were just friends before and he just like little challenge.
Speaker 3:he was like you know what? I'm going to take you up in this challenge today because I just like to throw a little challenges out occasionally to my single, to my single friends, and they started dating and so he wanted me to meet her. So he's like listen, I want you to meet Felicia. We're going to be at the bowling alley in my hometown this week and I was like I'm not fucking going. Bowling was the first thing I said. And then the other thing about the bowling alley is, when you're from a small town, like every time you go to Walmart is like a high school reunion that you didn't want.
Speaker 3:Or look forward to, or dress for and both this bowling alley was going to be the same way. I was going to see people from like my life that I did not want to see. So my first response was like I'm not fucking going and I'm not fucking going bowling. And he was just like, well, this is my schedule. If you want to meet Felicia and see me, this is it. And, by the way, you can stop.
Speaker 3:I have another friend who's a half happens to be in town and they're going to stop by too. I didn't even know if they were a male or female I had no idea and it ended up being Danny, and we ended up drinking a shit ton of Sambuca, which I can't even believe. They had a small town bowling alley.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But I had spent enough time, kira did you bowl? Horribly and it's okay Okay.
Speaker 1:And I fell on his ass, which he still.
Speaker 3:I didn't, I barely even saw it, he was so embarrassed at the time. But we were drinking, he had a good night and I just. He looked at me and he said I just think you're amazing. I was like looks like we're making out tonight. I literally said that out loud and then we made out by the dumpster in the back and I thought oh my God, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3:And I thought I'd never seen him again. So I did not know it. When I see a thought, there was a love at first sight. There was no. Like this is my twin flame soulmate. I was like this is a perfectly lovely guy, I really could use a make out. I'm kind of drunk, good make out, right. And then he had moved back to the area and I was spending a lot of time in my hometown because my dad would have been ill and we just started hanging out. I had no intentions, I did not see, you know, I did not think anything and there was just a point where I was like oh, this is a pretty good person, like I enjoy spending time with him.
Speaker 1:You were just doing what you normally do, which?
Speaker 3:is not commit to any fucking thing, which is what I normally did, which is not really try. So when I kind of started noticing like okay, this is a good person, this is a good guy, like I'm actually going to try, I'm going to have tough conversations, I'm going to ask for what I need which is something I never wanted to do because I was scared of coming off as is too clingy or needy and we just grew something that just I will say is on my, on my toughest moments in my life. I look at him and I say, if there is nothing else that good that comes out of my life, this, this is our good. Like we're that good.
Speaker 3:We are so solid, so secure, and we didn't start off that way. I'm I don't know if you guys know much about attachment styles I'm very anxious attachment he's very avoidant attachment. But we're here and we are each other's home and I spend my days trying to help people Find a way to build that with someone else too. I think there's a become a big.
Speaker 1:So cool push for.
Speaker 3:It's particularly women, I think in particularly women in a like in the Gen X generation. I was raised like be independent, don't count on a man, you know, because our mothers did not have the options that we had, or our grandmothers and so I was just like, if I don't have this, no big deal.
Speaker 3:But man, I'm really glad I prioritized, I'm really glad I did some of the tough things to get to this relationship, because I'm a better person, a better daughter, a better coach, a better sister, a better friend because of this person and I just I think that's possible for lots of people. I Like to think everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, it's just knowing kind of what to do yeah, yeah. Um, I would love to hear a little bit about attachment styles, because I think that is when I was listening to your podcast. That was really interesting to me and I think it might be good for Michelle too and our listeners.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would not say that I am a master of this information and you can like Google it. I even encourage people to check out the very short and easy quiz on the attachment project website. But Tell me, ladies, if you also learned this? I learned, I kind of remember this like 80s Kind of man, like a Bert Reynolds right, and it was our job as women to be cute and pretty and let men chase us, right? We didn't want to be too available.
Speaker 3:Let it, let them chase us and then you know, if they chase us long enough and kind of caught us, then you know, then we can all give in and everybody falls in love forever. And what I learned was I kind of believe these ideas that guys did this and girls did that or men are from Mars and Winner of Venus, and it just never really completely made sense to me because I knew guys that didn't act like that and I knew women who didn't kind of fit those stereotypes and what I realized was these stereotypes are actually attachment styles that are not gender specific at all. And I actually go back to our childhoods and whether we felt Really just safe and taken care of by our parents and how that first five years of our childhood can actually also affect our adult relationships and how Crazy that is. First of all, the think that you know. But I think it is very interesting that 80% of women are anxious and I think that's a lot of also how we're raised right, raised to be people pleasers, raised to. I feel like my whole Existence right now is shaking off shitty things. I learned that women were supposed to do or be my whole entire life, right like you know, things that I was supposed to allow from older men or things like that that I'm now like why? Why was I taught that? What? That's not okay and just you know. So Attachment cells are really looking deeper into how we attach or who we're attracted to and why and so anxious attachment 80% tend to be women.
Speaker 3:Ways that you can identify yourself as anxious attachment. Maybe you have a hard time waiting for that text, right? You get really nervous, you get really worried that they're not interested. You might go on social media looking to see what they're doing, right. You might get jealous very easily. You might also, if they aren't giving you enough attention, all of a sudden go out and reach out to your, your ex or somebody else who's giving you your attention. We tend to come out, tend to be a little clingy or needy. I know that. One of the ways it shows up for me is I'm constantly like in the first six months or so of our relationship was like Are we good? Are we everything okay here? Yeah, like you know, we good, we good.
Speaker 1:He's like Cuz you're expecting them for that, shooting them right my anxious attachment as in like.
Speaker 3:I am just waiting for that person to realize they don't like me and leave, and that's and that's.
Speaker 1:Do you think that the oh, no, go ahead, I'm sorry, oh Do you? Do you think that the Attachment style, like in this particular scenario with you, with your husband, that his attachment style was similar, or do you feel like he was that 20% that you know? You were saying anxious attachments when I was listening to your podcast. We were talking about, like, the healthy attachment styles and how basically nobody has that there's. You know, the anxious one, I think, is where I am. I don't know what Michelle would be we'd have to take the quiz but do you feel like his attachment style Directly impacted how you?
Speaker 3:So what you did? Avoid it. And here's the fucked up thing anxious are naturally attracted to avoidance and avoidance are naturally attracted to anxious, right so?
Speaker 1:but it all opposites attract.
Speaker 3:So yeah 80% of men are usually are usually avoided. In avoidance it's like it kind of hold emotions and emotional situations and people at arm's length. They never want to get that close right. They maybe want to be in what seems like a relationship, but not define it or Put labels on it right. They're kind of not willing to go there with you. They're, you know, emotionally go there with you and a lot of times both extreme anxious and avoidant are on some levels, emotionally unavailable because they're keeping their. What happened is avoidance. We're usually and why I think men tend to be Avoiding, and what they've proven about this is the fact that we've just told men don't have emotions, don't feel, don't cry, don't do this, don't do that. So when you keep shoving those emotions down, so much.
Speaker 3:You just stop feeling them and you think that anybody who is feeling them Well, it's just having some crazy emotional response. But that's because you don't know how to regulate your emotions properly. You know, we call it.
Speaker 1:Emotionally constipated. We call it emotionally constipated, or at least that's how we've defined people that you people I know that have that attachment style and I didn't realize that's what it was, but truly like not able to process, not able to share, not able to have the vulnerability. We're worried about looking weak absolutely sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Emotionally constipated not all men fit into avoidance, not all women I'd like. My sister is an avoidant like couple. My good friends and and I have my own theories that Anxious are attracted to having cats as pets because we have to work at it, to work for it. Avoidants like dogs they don't right because the dogs are just like happy to be there.
Speaker 3:But we aren't throwing those theories out too much, but it is very interesting when we stop taking these labels and saying men do this and women do that and kind of go. What's really showing up here? And the whole point about attachment style is using the self-awareness and going is this real or is this just my attachment style coming up, and is there something I need to say or ask for to feel safer so I can move forward with a relationship? Now what that came up for me is when Danny and I decided to be monogamous. One of the very first things I said is to him is I? I sat him down.
Speaker 3:It was a very awkward conversation, by the way, and I teach kind of a tough conversation template, but I just said, you know I mean anxious attachments. Oh, you probably don't know what that is. I'll kind of explain it for a second. But it means that when I don't hear from you, I make up in my head You're not interested. Now that may not be true at all. We might have just hung out yesterday, but that's what starts happening in my brain. So if you can reach out every day, we don't have to have the you know 17 hour conversations every day, but it just helps me know that you're still in this and he's like okay. So true, yeah, he's like okay, I can do that and I was like okay, and I'm just kind of and I also let him know. Like you know, this is gonna go better because I'm gonna be able to show up A little bit more secure. I'm gonna be able to show up not in that crazy like I have to Be somebody else's face, but just be myself.
Speaker 3:Which is a big thing with anxious is that we start people pleasing me, start bending over backwards. We don't want to ever rock the boat, but we can't be loved if people don't see all of us. We can't be loved if they don't see also the little nooks and crannies that aren't as good. We actually cannot, as human beings. Love perfection. We can appreciate, we can respect, but where we love people is how we take care of each other and support each other.
Speaker 3:So one of the ways that when we're extremely anxious, attachment styles that we make ourselves emotionally unavailable is by Never asking for what we need, never speaking up, and then sometimes we get resentful, sometimes we get angry, sometimes we get married and then years later we're like fuck you, but we never actually asked for those things and that's a problem. I'm like I said, I'm here for love, so I'm here into building every relationship as smartly and as well as possible, so that, because life is hard enough, we do not want all the other obstacles in our way. You know so. So attachment styles, I think, are such a genuinely short and easy thing you can learn to, even if you're in a relationship.
Speaker 3:I can guess what's a pop, what's called the power struggle phase. That is really just the anxious and avoidant showing up and and one person pulls away and then the other person roads closer and then the next person pulls away and then we don't ever get out of that that stage, unless we learn how to talk things through and learn how to communicate. We learn how to like actually solve conflict, and that's what I'm seeing now. I'm seeing we have a bunch of people who want love but don't really know how to be in a relationship that works or to choose partners that can be in that relationship with them.
Speaker 1:How we've talked about this before. Like married couples, for example, they're, you know, the divorce rates Obviously very high. Because I think that there's options, more options for people, they go into it. They don't necessarily go into it with the idea that this is my person, I'm gonna grow old with this person. It's more like this is what I intend, but hey, who knows if that's gonna work out. I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of options you know available and I think a lot of it has to do with the online dating and and Just that there's always someone else around the corner kind of family, maybe for people.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, Julie, I know that you have done a deep dive into my podcast lately, which that feels awesome to me, but one of the things I talk about?
Speaker 3:I did a whole series about online dating as the paradox of choice and they basically proven that one of the really negative outcomes of online dating is and that really is unhelpful to avoidance, and it is the fact that I'm sorry, my nose is running my allergies it is the fact that we just think that if this person doesn't work out or isn't perfect, next there's going to be a thousand more options out there, but that means nobody ever commits, nobody ever really goes all in, nobody ever really tries, and then we're looking for perfection, and perfection, once again, doesn't exist.
Speaker 3:We're not looking for real humans, and it's just another way that we sabotage ourselves and don't know it, because at some point you're going to have to choose the person. At some point you're going to have to. When somebody says to me and I know I'm going to piss off the world when I say this when I ask somebody why they're single and they say I haven't met the right person yet, I sometimes answer oh, are you Amish or did you live under a rock? Because you've probably met plenty of people that you could have dated and had a relationship with, but we have high expectations now Go ahead, Choosing.
Speaker 2:well, like you used the word choose, and it's choosing to your point to put in the work that it's going to take to make that commitment be long lasting.
Speaker 3:And that's the conscious effort. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think it's also. It's also your, your choices, like you'd talked about choices before, like your picker being off, and that resonates with me like crazy, because when you think about dating in the wild, if you will like, how you met your husband, or dating online, which is a lot of what's happening these days you you're looking at someone kind of the opposite way. You know their name, you know where they live, you know how tall they are, you know all these different things that all you have are photos to go off of. So it's a very superficial way of evaluating whether that person's right for you. You know, and then you get into a conversation. You're like, oh, okay, we're, I mean like we're completely on different planets or whatever.
Speaker 1:So it's a it's. It's really kind of eyeopening. You know, when you, when you think about the different options that are available to you or not available to you, or you know how are you getting out there for people who are single and meeting people that are when I say quality, I don't mean like quality in terms of like the money they make or anything like that, but people who have evaluated or maybe done some of that work. And, let's face it, we're at an age now where everybody's going to have some baggage If you don't, it's weird. You know life, so right like we're discussing, we're all in our 50s here.
Speaker 3:So listen, you are going to have had something that's not fantastic happen to you at this point, right, Whether that's an illness or a death in your family or, you know, a possible traumatic experience like that's just part of life and that's not, and I mean. But what we do want to see is has that person tried to work through any of those things? Have they talked about that with a professional? And where I think that we're seeing such a struggle is that we have an encouragement, especially of our age, to do that work right. We've kind of told them boys, don't cry and suck it up and love sports or whatever the book.
Speaker 3:And now we have a bunch of really emotionally immature men who have no idea how to be in a relationship, have no idea how to, how to not be just the only role that was that was carved out for men for thousands of years. Which is the main brain, the brain bread winner or the main? You know, now that women are now officially more educated than men and in fact, they recently just said there are more female attorneys in America than there are men as of this week, which I mean, I think is amazing.
Speaker 3:But we have to look at that's wonderful that impact is going to affect us and in the process of process of asking women to create careers, dig into our work, find our own passions, we haven't also told men explore sensitivity, explore like getting vulnerable, explore having better friendships. We haven't really given them that permission and I think that what we're seeing right now is just a really bad like clap back of just years of years of telling men that they needed to be this way and them not knowing how to be anything but.
Speaker 1:Or wanting to be, or feeling like they need to be. I mean, that can also be there too. You know, it's like I'm fine the way I am, and not having conversations works for me. I've been married for 25 years. You know what could be wrong? Well, that's like my point earlier. There are people that are in these long relationships that hate each other. They're staying in them for other reasons. They're not happy. I mean, that's why, when we're talking about the divorce rate, for example, it's like you know, 50% of divorce or of marriages and then divorce. Why?
Speaker 3:But why does it happen? How many, I don't know? Married and also unhappy. I believe I saw a and I can't tell you where I got the stack stat right now. I can tell you where I got lots of my stats, but I can't tell you this right now, but that about only 10% of relationships make it past what's called the power struggle stage.
Speaker 3:So one of the things I love to educate on it's just a simple idea of there's five stages to relationships and most of us have only heard of number one, which is the honeymoon phase, which is this fall in love phase. Right Is the excitement you want to have sex all the time. You think everything they do is like amazing, right, like that's what we have actively thought love is, and then we think that something bad's happened when that changes. But it turns out that is just a stage that our bodies go through, like to help us procreate. I mean it's really unsexy, right and unromantic. It helps us procreate. It helps us connect to a person to procreate with, like our bodies have evolved to do this and we have to be smarter than that evolution.
Speaker 3:So that means that after that happened comes a power struggle phase and about only about 10% or so, get past that power struggle phase, because most people never learned how to solve a conflict they didn't know. They never learned how to actually talk things through in a way that feels good. Right, we've never learned these skills and we certainly usually didn't see them. If my parents had a fight, it was never in front of us, right, it was behind closed doors. So we never got to see anything. Right, we had no idea it was happening.
Speaker 1:Mine just spoke Spanish, so we could hear them.
Speaker 3:Well, that's, but we don't learn these skills. And then we wonder why we feel like crap all the time. But I mean, we're in really dysfunctional relationships and we haven't learned how to it to change them or heal them. And, like I said, that's why I'm over here.
Speaker 2:I don't know what the other three are.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, so the power struggle phase.
Speaker 2:The other three, yeah, this power struggle phase, like she said, there are five.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, there's five. So, yeah, I mean, this is work by Dr Susan Campbell. So the first stage is the honeymoon period, which I think we all know and it's exciting and that's what we see in romcoms, right, we basically only see that stage. We never see what happens next. Isn't that how it is, yeah, and, but I feel like right.
Speaker 1:I mean there's another stage after that.
Speaker 3:It's a real awakening and a rough one for a lot of the population when we realize that that's only one part of love or one part of a relationship and not the whole thing is. Feeling like a 16 year old all the time right, Like that's a jolting reality that I don't think I learned until maybe my 30s or 40s and only because I was teaching this, you know.
Speaker 3:I still have clients of all ages going on dates and hearing from their date. You know well, I want to have instant chemistry, or it's not real, you know, and I'm like that just kind of shows me a little bit of the maturity of even understanding what relationships are. You know, because relationships take time, they take energy, they take a while to get to know each other, to see if this is a person you can like, grow a relationship with, because love can only show up when a relationship feels good, you know, like otherwise it won't stay, it just, it just is. So the other stages, the next after the power shuttle stage is the stability stage.
Speaker 3:And the stability stage is just a stage where you realize, like you've learned how to fight in a way that both people win right. Like nobody feels like and I don't know why we don't understand that. You know, if, if, if we're fighting and one person's winning, like, then the other person's always losing and then the relationship's losing. It doesn't matter if one person's winning, the relationship's losing right. So when you learn, like Danny and I it's not that we don't like squawk at each other occasionally, but if there's a real problem, we're sitting down, we're talking it out and I I say that that we collaborate right. Like we are both constantly tending to the relationship we have, not just to each other or ourselves, but to the relationship, because that is a priority, to make sure that that feels good, because when it doesn't feel good, the rest of the world doesn't feel good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nothing's going to feel good.
Speaker 1:So the step, so it's, so it's collaborate versus compromise.
Speaker 3:I don't like the word compromise. Compromise feels like somebody's losing.
Speaker 1:So, but you'd look at. So you look at like collaborate in terms of like the conversations and everything that you're having. It's just, it's a it's a little bit of a mind shift which actually makes sense. It's more positive than compromise.
Speaker 3:I think I'm going out the genius, ladies, I'm just kidding, no, but that is something that we use. I don't particularly like the word compromise because it feels like either one or both people are losing. But if we're like collaborating on, okay, this doesn't feel good to either of us. What do we both need to do or say or change or shift here for it to feel good? Everybody's on board, everybody's in there, we're a team and then it gets, and then you know, and then we feel good, like sometimes like we high five afterwards like God, we just rocked that out, but we never stay in it.
Speaker 3:We never like you know and I think that also yeah.
Speaker 3:Because, yeah good, or make it better. We're not sticking around in it. I don't think that we have Ever spent like the world, like, funny as it is, the worst that we've even fought in the last ten years Was not that long ago and we were just both really having a shitty, grumpy day. Just that's what it was. It wasn't anything to do with us. And finally I just looked at him and I'm like I'm gonna take my TV for my computer into the bedroom and I am going to just watch some shows that make me laugh. You sit out there and do the same and we're just gonna meet up later when we're both a little bit through this time Because we are just it was friction, just because we're both not feeling good, you know.
Speaker 3:You know, physically and emotionally, like he just been to the doctor, I just found out some stuff, and you know. And then we came together later and hugged and we were fine. You know, because sometimes you just have to realize, like this is a personal, there's nothing bad happening here, it's life, and you're experiencing life with this whole other person who has their, has their own dreams and their own goals and their own struggles, and we just we don't really discuss that enough. We just think it's supposed to be some kind of like working partnership that just magically works out. And I think, the minute that we think that Love is magical and it's not that it's not a beautiful thing but we take away the choice, we take away just to. Honestly, I think it's way more beautiful that this man chooses me every day, rather than us just Randomly falling in love ten years ago and he stuck with me, you know.
Speaker 1:I love.
Speaker 3:I love the fact that we choose each other every day. And then, in fact, when we got married, I got a couple of favors and and and they lived happily ever after was the Was what they put on all of their favors, and I made them change it too, and they chose each other every day, because that's what made Me. I'm like we didn't live happily ever after. We're working for this, but we're working for something that means something to us and we have something great because of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you think about like Michelle and I both had gotten married very, very young so I was 24 you were 21, michelle 22 21, yeah, and we get married.
Speaker 1:It's like I I really honestly don't recall having that conversation about what happens next. No, you know, we and I recall the very first fight that we had after we got married. It was like three weeks later and we were fighting about I brought he wanted to have a reception in Wisconsin and that was gonna be our honeymoon and I'm like I Just wanted to go away for the weekend. We never had a honeymoon, you know kind of a thing. And I go stomping out of the house and I drive down to 7-eleven and I get my diet coke and I'm like sitting in my car. I'm like god damn it, I have to go back.
Speaker 1:I was so. I was just like because I was so easy for me to just stomp out of the house, you know. But I realized in that one moment, when I was very young kid, it's like I got to go back and kind of try to figure this out because I couldn't just walk away. And that's something that I think people can do very easily is to just walk away or to think, oh gosh, this is the end when it's just a conflict, when you're that young and you're not really thinking about.
Speaker 3:What? I think that there are some people who are not that young and still think that it may be stay, but have just unattached years ago, right, like maybe they're still there, yeah, but they're not actually in it, they're not actually trying, they're not trying to solve the conflict, they're not trying to make things better. You know, I I Think that's a very normal story and I'm I'm I'm constantly Amazed by the fact that we have like literally a hundred brides magazines and not one on relationships are dating, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't call and I don't call Cosmo an expertise on, you know.
Speaker 1:But I mean, isn't that?
Speaker 3:interesting that that we focus on one day but we don't focus on all of the rest of it.
Speaker 3:We don't set any video up for these and especially, I thought Kind of like you guys. So my sister went to college and ended up meeting our college boyfriend homecoming. So homecoming night they ended up, like you know, making out and getting drunk after the dance or whatever, and then that's who she dated. So I just figured I go to college, same thing would happen. I probably meet him in the first one year and then we'd be married by 23, 24, because that's what everybody in my life did, you know. But a lot of those people aren't married anymore because who you are when you're 22, gosh, I didn't know anything about who I wanted to be when I was 22, or what was important to me or what I valued, and that makes marriage very hard when both people don't know they are.
Speaker 2:And so back to the five, because I think we were on, we got past three, we're in a number three, yeah, so we can help some of these 22 year olds that are considering.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. The stability stage is next, finally, the commitment stage, and this is kind of where we should be getting married and having kids. So once we get through the power struggle phase, once we start getting to a stable place, right, but everybody, we know, is getting married in stage one, when it's all glossy and fun and shiny.
Speaker 3:And then you wake up, you know, three weeks in going, oh fuck, I got to go back. This person's kind of my person now shit, what have I done, you know? And so the commitment stage is where we should kind of say this is the time we're moving together, this is the time that we're that we're we're gonna consider having children. And then, finally, the fifth stage is the bliss stage. And not everybody hits that stage, but it's just a stage where your you're good, you're maybe Collaborate and put something bigger out into the world. You know, but your relationship is not only good for both of you, you're like inspiring others with it.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm and so I don't think that every relationship gets there. I think that even if you get to a stability or commitment stage like hot dog, but you know, the fact that most of us still believe that stage one is the only stage and that otherwise were Just with the wrong person, is a problem yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just understanding what those other stages are. You know, having those discussions, I suppose, which we had never done. I mean we just, I mean honestly just walked into it going, I never even thought about it, we'll get a house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then, based on what I don't know, the dated name.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean faith and the fact that for generations before us, women didn't have an option.
Speaker 2:It's what everybody did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you had to like like one of, if I know, julie you've been listening, but I do a whole episode on Kind of the anatomy of modern dating and how it started only a hundred years ago, because before that your family picked out who you were going to marry. It was all about status, it was all about, yeah, land, it was all about nobody. You know, you didn't have an option whatsoever. But really that one of the most interesting things that I learned in the history of dating is that when so few men came back from World War two, there was this. There was this national Scarcity thrown on women, basically like that's where women who had been dating at 18, 19, 20 started dating at 12 and 13. So before that that didn't happen.
Speaker 3:Basically, when so few men came back, it was just being said everywhere women, if you want to be guaranteed a husband which, by the way, you had to, you couldn't even have a bank account back then right, you couldn't have any, you couldn't property, you couldn't anything.
Speaker 3:So they were basically told like, if you want to get somebody, you better nail that down, you have to get pin, you want to get a leather jacket, you want. All of that started earlier and early and earlier, because we told women that, since the war happened, that you were not going to get a husband or or a guaranteed kind of life If you didn't do this. And I think that scarcity is never, but never has never left for women. I think that I I still see women in their fifties, sixties like being with people that they shouldn't be with because they're just afraid that there's nobody else out there, and that doesn't actually make sense. There's like a hundred million singles in America alone, of all ages, but we do, we really live in that scarcity, thought it it helps or it it does not help us at all. It's unhelp, it's unhelpful and it keeps us in situations that we don't want to be in and it keeps us Allowing behavior that we shouldn't be allowing, and it's a real problem.
Speaker 1:It's settling.
Speaker 3:I hate the word I hate there were another word. You decide settling because I just think yeah.
Speaker 3:I feel like saying we're settling for them, another human being is really Awful. I'll be honest, I think that's such a like if I heard somebody across the room in a private conversation Saying that they worried they settled for me, I would be Broken. That that would feel so terrible to me. Yeah, but instead also, I think it's really passive which I think happens for women that instead of saying and what I like to replace it with Is choosing, because if you would say I chose that, yeah, that changes it right, mm-hmm?
Speaker 1:Well then, you own it, you own it. If you chose it, you own it, whereas if you say I settled, it's like, well, I just kind of went with what was available.
Speaker 3:At the end of the day, we choose every day to either be with that person, to either speak up or not, to tolerate or allow and and Choosing is the assertive, choosing is the I own my choices and then we do something about it, settling or believing that we're settling or might settle. That just keeps us in that passive space that everything happens to us and, honestly, yeah, that's not helpful, that's not, that's not empowering.
Speaker 1:That's a great way to look at it. Mm-hmm, that's a fantastic way to look at it when I see because it's everywhere.
Speaker 3:You know all of these women particularly screaming never settle. I'm just like, I'm just you know, and I'm like, yeah, okay, you're right, don't settle for shitty situations, but Understand your role. What are you choosing? Why are you choosing it? Yeah, what are you ultimately looking for? And are you dating that way? Like we're not asking bigger questions, we're not having better relationships, we just have people shouting things occasionally like never settle, and then all these women are like but then we go home and we watch our hallmark, you know, movies and kind of, are just lonely and you know okay, you were just describing me to a tee over the last like.
Speaker 2:never settle was my mantra, probably about seven or eight years ago. I have a tattooed on my foot hashtag never settle, sorry. No, it's okay, I own that it's.
Speaker 1:You weren't talking. You weren't talking. I mean it was about life choices.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're 100% correct, though. It's absolutely a choice, and, and the way you just described all that was is perfect yeah. Yeah so yeah, no, thank you for that.
Speaker 3:No, and I, just I, what I, what I'm seeing is women are becoming, like I said, more educated. We're trying to step in our power but and become more empowered. But if we then are, we've given men power for years but never empowered them so kind of you said, here you could, you can lead and you can run things, and maybe you don't even have the qualities or the Skills to do so. So we've kind of given them power but we haven't empowered them. And like the first time I said to Danny, you know, the first time I had that conversation of you know, would you reach out every day, just so I know that you're in this? At the end of that conversation I said and if you need something, you tell me. Like that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 3:And I remember this deer in headlights look that he said nobody's ever asked me, that Nobody's ever asked me like what I'm looking for or what I need in a relationship, and that really started something for us, so that he knew that he could come to me if he needed something, that I could come to him, and that that's what we were gonna be doing and we built the relationship on that foundation and it's changed things.
Speaker 1:But Well, you left a. You put a good platform there for him to realize that he could be vulnerable, could ask, and he's not gonna feel uncomfortable about doing it because you've said it. You've said hey, I'm here for you and tell me what you need, where you're right. He probably never heard that before. So he's looking at you like, damn, I scored with this one. Yeah, I did.
Speaker 3:You know what? Like so did I? Like we both feel like the luckiest people on earth and I think that that's kind of how you want to feel. I don't feel like either one of us did anything but show up and continue to show up and rock this out. But, you know, I think it helps. Yeah, I just I believe fully that we have worked for this and built it, because everybody is like how do we clone Danny? And I'm like listen, I'm a big fan. Clearly, he's my husband, I'm a big fan. However, I don't think it's him, I think it's us and I think it's what we've created.
Speaker 3:And I think that when women understand that they have that power to create something great with someone, when they ask for what they need, when they set boundaries, when they choose partners who could actually show up for us Because I can't believe how many times I hear women going well, this isn't working. And I'm like are you? You know they've chose somebody who is refusing to work, refusing to go to therapy, refusing to do anything that's uncomfortable or out of their comfort zone, and I'm like you know that's the problem. It's not. You know, we keep looking at things like is that person gonna pay for our first date Instead go. Is this person have a growth mindset enough to wanna work on shit if bad things comes up? Bad things come up, you know, like those are the things we should be looking for and asking about.
Speaker 2:So question In regard to online dating, because that is like I feel so much that that's kind of how everybody is dating now. What options do they have outside of that? What things do you coach in regard to that pursuing into those options to pursue? What is there more that they can do? So, absolutely Outside of online dating I mean I get that.
Speaker 2:I met my guy organically. We met in a bar up in Alaska, both from two totally different states. So you know, I know there's things Anchorage Awesome. Yeah, that's amazing Traveling on business yeah he was there a visit was staying in the same hotel I met in the bar.
Speaker 3:Love it. So, Love it. Yeah, in fact, meeting in a bar is about the same as success rate as online dating. People don't know that, Cause, for some reason, a multi-billion dollar corporations have let us believe that online dating is actually really successful, and I won't say that it's one of the main people that way that people are dating right now.
Speaker 3:But I will tell you, it is nowhere near as successful as people think it is and, in fact, if you're over the age of 50, I believe your success rate is less than 7%. Wow, so the average success rate is 10%, by the way, so it's a little bit higher for the LGBTQ, like 20 something, population, but otherwise, online dating isn't working and we're not talking about it and it's driving me fucking crazy.
Speaker 3:Cause everybody thinks that love and relationships and dating are broken and I'm like, no, we just have it. We just have these billion dollar corporations controlling our dating situation and not doing it very well, and then we're all thinking that it's over. I mean, I think we have to get back to basics. I'm like recently put up a post like let's talk about speed dating again. I know we don't love it, but let me tell you, swiping on your phone all night, every day, having kind of random, awkward conversations, isn't working either. We're gonna have to go back to meeting people in real life, where real love is, where real relationships are.
Speaker 3:I think that we like the idea of online dating because it feels a little easier. We don't have to be as vulnerable, right, it feels like we're doing something active by swiping or looking, but we're not. If we're not conversing and actually connecting, this isn't working. So if 10% is the success rate of online dating, I don't think I should be dating any more than 10% online. Get out, do things you love. The number one way that people still meet people is through friends. I ended up meeting Danny, and why I trusted him so easily and quickly? Because I knew he was my friend or a friend of my friend, rob's Rob was like this is a standup guy.
Speaker 3:We need to do that for each other more right. The number one way is still friends. So like grow your friend circle, grow your community. We don't love that answer. But even if there is all the singles in the world, if you're still not making connections with these hundreds or thousands of profiles, then it's not working. You only need one.
Speaker 2:You only need one and being open, I suppose too, like being open to going to the bowling alley and putting yourself out there and having a make out sesh with a stranger that you don't really know, but, according to your friend, as a standup guy, putting your foot in the door and then pursuing more. I think that if people are really interested.
Speaker 3:I A think that everybody should step back and go what am I doing and what's working, what's not? Have a real conversation. Are the people that I'm naturally attracted to actually good or healthy people, Cause sometimes they're not. Sometimes, who we're attracted to is familiarity right, Like a lot of attraction is actually what's familiar, and familiar is from your family, and that can always, that can't always. Is it always good, right? If we are really creating relationships that we saw our parents have? I mean, that's not what I wanted. I can't speak for you guys, but overall in general.
Speaker 3:I hear right.
Speaker 1:I didn't want that either.
Speaker 3:The overwhelming response that I hear. But I think that first of all, take a step back, take a pause. What am I doing? Who am I attracted to? Do I know what I'm actually looking for. Then admit it to yourself. Give yourself permission to say it's okay to want a relationship.
Speaker 3:I feel like, as women, we now are shaming each other for saying I kind of want to do this. But I'll tell you, I turned 50 this year and there's something to be said about. There's like a next chapter, right. There's a whole like a little bit of a mind fuck that goes on with like okay, I'm 50. Like the next 15 years are kind of my career time, like what's next after that, even, and how is Danny playing a role in my life and what are we doing, and everything else.
Speaker 3:So I just feel like it's okay for us to give ourselves permission to want this. It's okay to say that love is out there and I want this with somebody, and I think that we as women have kind of stopped doing that. We're like you be single girl, like you know girl power, and the thing is that I think you can find love and connection all over the place. But I think it's also okay if you're like I really want to try this, but do it better, do it smartly, don't keep putting yourself out there and hoping just somebody's going to choose you and it sort of work out.
Speaker 3:Be intentional. Don't spend time with people who are not looking for the same thing as you. I just did a podcast yesterday about eight questions that you should be asking everybody by like date three and it's just like what kind of relationship are you looking for? Because if we're not looking for the same thing, why are we dating again and again and again?
Speaker 3:If you're looking just for casual and I'm looking for more, or vice versa. Why would we not talk about that? We're so scared to talk about it. But we keep putting ourselves in bad situations because we're so scared to just say to somebody yeah, I'm looking for something longterm. What about you? You know like we have these weird mindsets over speaking up for our needs and our truths. But Time saving questions. Time saving questions. Why would we want to date somebody for six months and then find out they're not looking for the same thing as us Like, and after we're attached to them, after we've told them all of our secrets and we've shown them all our bits and bubbles on our bodies?
Speaker 3:and everything else right, like just you know we can do this so much better. I don't know if that answered the question you asked, but I hope it did.
Speaker 2:No, it, yeah, it did, it did, yeah. Time saving questions.
Speaker 1:So you were talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, knowing what you're going, yeah, opening yourself up, all of those things.
Speaker 1:But so, yeah, I do have a question for you. What you had mentioned something about like who you're attracted to, like you've, and so there's like a physical, I don't know like profile or whatever, of someone that you're kind of attracted to, and there's the physical aspect of it, and then there's the nuances about how they carry themselves, how they dress, all these things that you might see and be attracted to, but maybe they're not the right people for you. But how do you determine? Like you're saying you go through dates and or you meet somebody and you're like you know they're yeah, I mean, you're not feeling anything, I just more am like, well, I just kind of move on because I just don't feel it and so, but is that the wrong?
Speaker 3:way to look at it. I have to tell you that too late, but it is.
Speaker 1:Here's why no, no, that's okay, because I'm just like okay, yeah, because you're right, thank you. Next, it's kind of that thought process, but I've been going into very thoughtfully because my word this year is intention more intentionally, choosing to talk to people or to meet up with people who I feel like I might have that kind of a connection with. That's not a fuckboy. Basically, I'm staying away from the fuckboys. I had my fuckboy stage. I'm good now and I'm staying away from that, but I would like to meet, you know, someone who has that depth to them. But it's like finding that in an individual has been rather challenging, at least for what I'm doing. I maybe I'm just doing it wrong, I don't know. We have the other friend too same thing.
Speaker 3:Let me say, give you a couple of things that I tell people, right, cause we were kind of talking about how to meet people. One of my favorite things to do is activity date or action dates. Right, stop sitting across from each other and just telling each other about your lives, right, like it's not fine. Half the time people aren't even self aware enough to really tell you an actual, like clear, picture of their lives. Do things with them.
Speaker 3:You're going to connect more, you're going to see more about them if you are doing something with them, right? So I would rather somebody go grocery shopping than a coffee date. I would rather somebody go play bowling, go play mini golf, cause you're going to know more about their behavior when they're doing these things than us just in here talking about ourselves. We can't see that much and ultimately everybody gets nervous, so you're not really seeing the best of somebody. So the more that we kind of hack that system by doing things with them, we can see more, we can learn more, and if we're learning with them, that's actually a great connector. So let's say you take a cooking class, right, you are now learning together.
Speaker 3:As you're learning together, that is a vulnerable state and it's also going to create better connection and intimacy. When you're learning together and, by the way, you take a cooking class and it ends up being a, that person ends up being not a match. You got to learn something. You got to like cook, take a recipe home and maybe eat some good food. But we are really dating poorly Like.
Speaker 3:The way that we date actually isn't very smart. We don't ask helpful questions. We don't seem to. We end up doing kind of job interviews cause we don't know better. I like get outside, do things, plan things, like have insightful like.
Speaker 3:Go to an art gallery separate for 30 minutes, find your favorite couple paintings and then take each other to them and tell them why it means something to you. Do shit like that because you're going to learn so much more about that person than them telling you about their job that they may or may not even like you know and we don't. We're kind of trying to constantly date from this. I'm going to learn in the next 90 minutes whether this person is going to be my potential partner and we're not going to know anything in 90 minutes besides, maybe if they break any of their deal breakers or their super value differences. That's the only thing we're really going to see on a first date. But true love to but? Aren't those important things to know? Absolutely, yeah, I mean so if you so at the end of my.
Speaker 3:So what I teach my people is at the end of the day, you ask four questions, right, only four questions, not. Are this the love of my life? Is this going to be? You know the end, all be all person for me. But the question is the questions are these? Number one, from what I could see, are they emotionally and physically available to date me? Okay, what does that mean? Do they have time? Are they not in a relationship or getting out of a relationship? I'm pretty hardcore about not dating people who are divorcing, because it is an emotional fucking process and you become a support system and a therapist instead of a partner. Right?
Speaker 1:And I find it kind of interesting when you see people who are separated and they're dating and I'm kind of like when I was separate, that was like the last thing on my mind that I even remotely was thinking about when I was going through my divorce. It was like I was a train wreck. So I don't know why they can't be alone or something.
Speaker 3:So I have theories. It just seems like they have theories. I don't know. Number one, why I think we see a lot of men particularly jumping right back into dating A because most of them do not have emotional relationships out of their wives, Right. So when that gets taken away, they want to fill that very, very quickly. They also don't want to be stuck with their thoughts about what did I maybe do wrong?
Speaker 3:You know, one of the best questions that I think for a first couple of days to find out is to say you know, not like what happened or anything, but what was your role and not working, what would you do differently? We want to see how they actually thought about their role in this. That is basic, Like I don't care whose fault it is. Everybody's going to think it's the other person's fault, but what could you have done better? And do you even have you even taken the time to people in relationship to like, recognize that right, Like that? Like somebody who just says, like, what happened to your past relationship? And if they're just like, ah, my ex is crazy, that's all the information you need about the emotional maturity that they've actually spent thinking about their role in that relationship. If the answer is my ex is crazy. They may be actually certifiably mentally ill, but why'd you choose them? Why'd you stay Right? What'd you allow? How did we get here Right Like, why did nobody ever seems to want to own up to that right? They just want to be like, oh, that person was terrible, or I just haven't met my person.
Speaker 3:And really we choose people for certain reasons, Something that our attachment style. It can be our, you know, our childhood and many, many other things, but ultimately we can be dating so much better because just talking about ourselves isn't really that helpful. How many times I bet you both have done this. I dated for many years. How many times have you been on a date where somebody told you about who they were and then you started seeing them or spending time with them and you're like, no, you're not.
Speaker 3:You know they told you how kind or giving they are, or they told you what a, you know how socially just they were and you know what a good environmentalist and then you go to their house and they don't even fucking recycle. You know what I mean. Like people don't have a ton of self-awareness About. So 95% of people think that they're self-aware. About 10% to 15 actually are. So I'm much more into spending time doing things with people, because you're going to get more information from that than what they're going to tell you, and you're also, I think, going to get to see the better qualities that may not come out in that conversation. I think the kind of kind and good guys aren't selling themselves, you know, over the moon.
Speaker 3:They aren't you know what I mean. Like I don't think that as women, we really know what to look for. Because we're looking for the Jake Ryan's, because we're looking for the showy guys. A lot of times the showy guys are confident or cocky, but not actually secure, right, Is that helpful?
Speaker 1:They're actually really insecure, so it kind of yeah yeah, that does help a lot.
Speaker 2:Everything has been so helpful.
Speaker 3:Yay.
Speaker 2:I learned a lot today.
Speaker 1:We want to have you on as a regular. We love listening to you and hearing what you have to say. I think my biggest takeaway- is choice Choosing and choice. Yeah, that's a big one. It's and we do. We have lots of choices, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's kind of weird out here, gender roles aren't the same as our parents Like, dating is different. Now we have digital and texting kind of throws things off. But as women we have choices and you know, and I'll tell you like I actually get teared up when I think about how hardcore like my grandmothers were, or my great grandmothers were, and the women they had to be for me to be able to have my own bank account and run my own business and have a podcast that I can, like you know, check onto it on a Sunday afternoon. You know that they fought for us to be here so that we could choose our partners and wouldn't have to be with. You know, whoever our father picked for us? Because he had two, you know, sacks of grain and a goat. So you know, like I think I think these are really important conversations.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine, yeah?
Speaker 3:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. I'd be happy to come back anytime. Oh my gosh, I have a million questions. We're going to have to have you come back for sure?
Speaker 2:So, uh, so Kira's um, Kira's podcast you can find on Spotify. All of the the major podcasts, where, whatever your favorite one is to download from, make sure you download and listen to some of hers, If anything resonated with you today, even if it didn't, because she's just fun to listen to, right, but it's reinventing dating with Kira Saban. Yes, Saban, Is that how you say your last name? S-a-b-i-n? So, uh, Kira Saban is in reinventing dating with her. So, uh, just snippets. Uh, we were kind of all over because there was so much that we wanted to get from her today, but, uh, sounds like we may be able to pull her in again and get her back to spend a little, her little bit of time with us.
Speaker 1:She's totally like a girlfriend we would hang out with on the show. I know I like the one that gives really good advice.
Speaker 3:That's. That's the one, yeah. That's where I am yes, thank you. Yeah, love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for having me, ladies, but you can. Yeah, thank you, you, uh, people. Uh, as you know, there's probably many spots in this one that you might want to back, go back to and revisit, so be sure to download. You can find us on Spotify, Same thing Wherever you listen to our podcast. We're out of there on all the socials as well. So, kira, thank you again, uh, for taking the time. This was, uh, really time well spent for me and, I'm sure, for so many of our listeners. So, with that, until next time, everybody, peace out and see you later. Bye, one, two, three, four, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.