When the threads that bind family together start to unravel, how do we navigate the space between love and letting go? That's the question Michele and Julee examine, as we share not only our own journey through the heartache of estrangement from our parents but also the poignant tales from our circle. The complexities of these relationships come to light as we discuss the many reasons why adult children may choose to cut ties, such as conflicting lifestyle choices and the delicate balance between parental guidance and control. With raw honesty, we peel back the layers of these decisions, considering both the hurt and the necessity for some to find their own way.
As life ushers our grown children onto diverse paths, it sometimes means redefining what family looks like, especially through the holiday season. The dance of maintaining bonds while respecting newly set boundaries by our children and their partners is a tender one. Michele and Julee offer an intimate glimpse into this journey, sharing stories of evolving relationships, the emotional toll of changed dynamics, and the challenge of staying united with our partners amidst family conflicts. Join us as we tackle the tough questions and seek a deeper understanding of the threads that hold families together, even when they stretch and change.
When the threads that bind family together start to unravel, how do we navigate the space between love and letting go? That's the question Michele and Julee examine, as we share not only our own journey through the heartache of estrangement from our parents but also the poignant tales from our circle. The complexities of these relationships come to light as we discuss the many reasons why adult children may choose to cut ties, such as conflicting lifestyle choices and the delicate balance between parental guidance and control. With raw honesty, we peel back the layers of these decisions, considering both the hurt and the necessity for some to find their own way.
As life ushers our grown children onto diverse paths, it sometimes means redefining what family looks like, especially through the holiday season. The dance of maintaining bonds while respecting newly set boundaries by our children and their partners is a tender one. Michele and Julee offer an intimate glimpse into this journey, sharing stories of evolving relationships, the emotional toll of changed dynamics, and the challenge of staying united with our partners amidst family conflicts. Join us as we tackle the tough questions and seek a deeper understanding of the threads that hold families together, even when they stretch and change.
Hey everybody. This is Michelle and this is Julie. Welcome to a blonde, a brunette and a mic podcast. What is our podcast all about, you ask?
Speaker 2:Well, we're 250 something, women with life experience and oh, plenty to say, which is exactly what we're gonna do right now.
Speaker 1:Alrighty people, today's topic is a good one.
Speaker 2:It is a good one. Not that we have personal experience with it or anything. Yeah, this one we did for a friend, yeah we're actually speaking on behalf of so many people we know not us, but we want to talk about. Well, let me ask you, michelle, do you feel like? Have you run across situations with people you know where they're just so over the top with their kids that their kids just 86 them?
Speaker 1:I don't know that I know anybody personally. I think there are those that definitely will distance themselves. I think that, depending what, there's been certain points in my own life that I've done that.
Speaker 2:Distance yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:From your children.
Speaker 1:From my parents.
Speaker 2:Oh, from your parents, yeah, from my parents.
Speaker 1:So, I suppose, let's say so, the topic everybody is reasons why adult children cut ties with their parents. So I didn't cut ties with my parents, but there were definitely times in my life and as I'm talking about this, I'm thinking about other scenarios. It's very interesting actually, scenarios it's very interesting actually I didn't actually cut ties with them, but I think there were times in my life where I felt that my parents probably wouldn't approve of my lifestyle right and so, therefore, I was the one distancing myself, and to them they might have felt like I was the cutting ties is so well.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's different levels of severity.
Speaker 1:I think yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, if you've got a situation where, let's say, you're spanked your kids or was giving them corporal punishment or something and it's didn't talk to you about it and was just saying, hey, they were misbehaving and that's what's going to happen. When they're around me, it's like that actually kind of happened to me when you mentioned that in an episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I mean he, he, I mean Andrew was not, he was. He was little, maybe eight or something. I mean how bad could he have been Right? But my dad didn't have a lot of patience and definitely was more discipline related.
Speaker 1:I think.
Speaker 2:So he just chose to discipline him and I was like oh hail to the no, that's not happening. And it turned into a whole other thing Because he clearly had some opinions about parent our parenting right. So I did not. I don't think I talked to him for over two years when that happened and I finally kind of talking to him because he was retiring and there was a party that my mom needed help planning and so I ended up planning the party and doing all of that, but I did it for my mom, I didn't do it for my dad.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, but yeah, so that would be a big one, I would think. And you know, there's the whole neglect and abuse, different types of abuse and things that you could run across. But I think a lot of the time, like in our society and again, we're raising our people, our thoughts and ideas and experiences. Raising our kids is generationally different, obviously, than what you might see today. We were not super punitive with the things that we did. As a matter of fact, I would say we were very opposite. Like Brian was much more of a disciplinarian and I was kind of like the polar opposite of that, that, almost to kind of offset it a little bit, or soften it up.
Speaker 2:I would say a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it was more so with the oldest, and then you know if you get to the I mean you're the youngest by the time that you're kind of like they're not they're not waiting up for you or anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I think when you think of that bond that parents have with their children or that you envision parents having with children, it seems like it's this close relationship. It's an unbreakable bond, irreplaceable all of those things.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting because, as children do grow up into adulthood, I think that there's some simple yet many varied reasons why it might seem like ties are somewhat cut. And I don't think in some cases it's a matter of, you know, kids not wanting there's going to be all the cases but I think sometimes it might be that they're just trying to spread their wings, move into adulthood excuse me, adulthood and figure these things out on their own based on the things they learned throughout their life.
Speaker 1:So, as parents, there comes a point where we have to trust what we've done, and I think that's challenging at times because of what we learn throughout our life and on our journey and as we've gotten older. Of course, hindsight is 20-20, and of course now I'm speaking you know for from my own experience and how it at times is for me. So you look at your children and some of the decisions that they're making and it can be hard to to let that be, but it's not our place.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's where I struggle with that a little bit. So I agree with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I also think, if they ask for our feedback or they want our opinion, Of course. Or we see that they're doing things that are really hurtful to other people or they're detrimental to their personal growth or whatever. I mean, there's a real fine line about being kind of Nelly nosy person and getting in there and giving them your opinion when you're not asking for it and being judgmental, and that's that's where I I struggle a little bit because I'm really I really feel good about my kids. They asked me for my feedback feedback they ask me what I think they ask me.
Speaker 2:You know what I would do, kind of a thing, and I know they do that with their dad too, and it really does depend on the topic yeah because you know, maybe they'll get.
Speaker 1:They're going to get a different answer, obviously, from either one of us, but well, it's just like when they were little mom, can I spend the night just? No, ask you, you know, yeah, and then they know who to ask, because they know, yeah, what answer.
Speaker 2:They're not, and that certainly does not change at all as you get older.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah but I, you know, as an adult myself, it's like I feel like there are these. You know, I don't say trauma, bonds or things. Maybe I've got that word trauma in my head, but that happened to you as a kid, where now we are grown ass women and you know there's things that come up that I'm just like I didn't ask for your opinion, I didn't ask. You know, like with my mom, I didn't ask for your opinion, I didn't. I I'm not interested in hearing what you have to say, because I know it's going to be something that I am not going to feel good about.
Speaker 2:And it's like I'm not doing anything wrong. It's just, everybody has their biases and the things that they believe in, have grown up with. And, to give you kind of an example, not long ago there was a circumstance where I had been seeing somebody and I, you know, just had different friends and stuff like that that were around and my, my mom knew some of them, not all of them, but she made some reference to my trashy friends and I'm like what.
Speaker 2:Like it was kind of like we were in the driving in the car and I'm kind of like, yeah, like Michelle, yeah, michelle's my trashy friend, yeah, no, I really honestly was kind of taken aback because I didn't really know what she meant. But she was being kind of evasive and passive-aggressive a little bit about how she was saying that and I kind of it came full circle to me that she was really talking not about my girlfriends, she was talking about whomever in her head she had this idea that I was seeing, or so I don't even know. It was like probably even old. Some of it was maybe old, old information yeah, like a guy and she wouldn't approve for whatever reason, and I'm thinking to myself.
Speaker 2:I am like a grown woman. Why I mean? Why would she even care? Why?
Speaker 1:you know what I mean it just seems so odd to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So my response, which I felt was a really good, and I put some thought into it, some boundary, where I just said you know what, you have different experiences, I have different experiences, we grew up differently and I am just going to choose to love you the way that you are and I'm going to leave it at that. My personal life, or the things that are happening in that part of my personal life, are my personal thoughts, feelings, experiences, and I'm just not going to share them Because I don't really see the point. I'm not, you're not getting joy out of what I'm telling you. There's a lot of judgment there. So it just, I think for everybody involved it's just easier if that stuff stays off the table. And she was not super happy because, because I put a boundary up and she was you shouldn't have boundaries with your family, and I was like, really, I kind of disagree there, you know.
Speaker 2:But I expect that you know, like, for example, you know, you know my oldest is getting married and you have you have daughter in laws. So you've experienced this too and there's a shift. It's not that it's not that he is not involving me in things he absolutely is but there is a different woman in his life now.
Speaker 1:That's not me, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I don't obviously hold the same place as his girlfriend or his fiance now does, but you know we're pretty tight, so it's there's things that he and I have, you know, had conversations about or what have you, but ultimately now the decisions that he's making, it's like he has his own little family that start well.
Speaker 2:He has his two dogs and he has Amelia, yeah there's going to be a bigger family down the road probably, but I guess my point is is that that's now Amelia's role as his soon to be wife to be the person that he is like, bouncing a lot of those things off of that he maybe would have been bouncing off of me before, Right, and you know, like, for example, this whole move to Texas that they're doing, I mean, my initial response could be like no, I don't want you to go. No, of course I don't want them to leave.
Speaker 2:I mean truthfully it's like, but I also know that that's going to be what's best for them. So of course I'm supportive, of course I'm excited for them and everything. But if I, if I wanted to be narrow about it, I could not be supportive, I could not be helpful, I could not be overjoyed. You know about the steps that they're taking and I could be a big curmudgeon about it. Yeah, and what would that accomplish?
Speaker 1:You know, I think it's hard, though sometimes for people. Good that you recognize that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But for a lot of people that's not easy to do and I think that's why you know some of these things we're going to, we're going to dive into them because we I found some. You know, like you know, 20 reasons why adult children cut ties with parents, so not necessarily anything that we've personally experienced Some of them. As I was reading them, I was like Whoa.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, cause I think there's times where you just don't realize some of the things that you do as a parent, right, and I could say as a mom, and uh, oh no, you don't have a clue sometimes. I know I don't mean to cross lines or boundaries in anything. If there's anything that I've ever done to make my children feel a certain kind of way to where they want to step back and not be close, I would never intentionally do something to cause a rift like that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So now, though, you have grown children who have spouses who have opinions about things, and do you find that your role with your boys?
Speaker 1:you've had to really think about that role with your boys has you've had to really think about that. It's been a very careful thought process on many different levels for all of them, married or not. I have these beautiful women now in my life. It's a blessing and because I know my sons the way that I do, I am able to empathize sometimes with some of the things that might be the dynamics that might be going on.
Speaker 1:At the same time, it's not my place to insert myself in a way that is not welcome or that shouldn't be. I'm not there to your point.
Speaker 2:Welcome, or that shouldn't be, I'm not there to your point.
Speaker 1:They're married. Now their wives are the ones to work through things and do those. There were a lot of times when I was married I did feel like a parent to my spouse and I just think that you know though I you know. I just think that you know, though I you know, people that know their children and are able to empathize on certain situations and, on certain levels, to throw out opinion, and I learned that by experience.
Speaker 2:Throwing out your opinion. It is not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does not help.
Speaker 2:Well, especially if nobody asks for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah and it's yep. It was not the right thing to do and I I learned that immediately and I had to step back and reevaluate how I was handling some things I was.
Speaker 2:I was talking with a really good friend of mine who has um four children, all grown kind of similar ages and stuff as ours, and two of of them are married now, and the oldest.
Speaker 2:When the oldest got married, there was a child that was already involved and my friends were like grandparents to this child, you know. And then there was another child that came into the picture, so now there's a sibling to that child, and the wife was really upset because she felt that my friend and her husband were not giving the same type of attention to the first one that's not their biological grandchild as they were to the second one. Now, my friends did not feel that that was happening at all. As a matter of fact, they were trying to create circumstances where they could spend time, you know, with the, with the kids, and the wife put the kibosh on everything for them.
Speaker 2:They're not, they haven't seen them, they haven't talked to them, they haven't been able to spend any time with them. And here's a great example of perhaps the son is not, hasn't developed that experience or maturity level yet to be able to have a really good conversation with his wife to find out exactly what's going on. Or maybe he agrees, I don't know, yeah, but he's going along with everything and there's just so much hurt.
Speaker 1:That's there because well, and at the. At the same point I don't mean to cut you off, but at the same point I want to lose my thought, at the same point that we said earlier. This is now his wife.
Speaker 2:Right. And so so then, do you stand. You stand in solidarity with your spouse, even if you don't agree it's a. It's a private conversation that you have with your spouse.
Speaker 1:Let's just. Let's just talk about that, not in this particular case. But I think that for a married couple, you do stand in solidarity, whether you agree or disagree, because personally, together you might agree to disagree, and I'm just putting myself in that situation. So if my husband were to be feeling this way and didn't want the child and cut all ties, okay, I support you If that's how you feel. I'm not saying this would be easy. This is a total easy say, hard do. But I think that really, what alternative do you have?
Speaker 2:Well, but that impacts your relationship with your family too.
Speaker 1:But that's where I was going to say it doesn't mean that I can't spend time. So then you start doing everything separately Not everything, but you might have to go out of your way, I'm speaking from experience here you might have to go out of your way to come up with scenarios or situations. So if my husband's off with their child now our child, not biologically, but doing something you know, maybe with their family or something that you don't necessarily have to be involved in, then maybe that's when I go spend time with my family.
Speaker 1:Yeah it would definitely have to be a creative situation that you would have to really maneuver.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's kind of sad when you think about those types of scenarios taking place, because there's all those little cracks in the family structure, and then you start thinking about the get-togethers and the holidays, and this is where families start, not really getting along because there's different perspectives.
Speaker 1:But can we just talk about that for a second?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:What does the holiday have to do with the family dynamic? What is controlling what now?
Speaker 2:Now, the holiday is controlling how I'm feeling about my family.
Speaker 1:But you're absolutely right, it happens all the time.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying that because that's usually when people will get together, but honestly it's like that's painful for a lot of people.
Speaker 1:They don't see a lot of the people in their family.
Speaker 2:For you know it is and it happens all the time go out of my way and I guess I just kind of look at it differently. It's like it's not like you have these close, close ties with people that are distant relatives maybe yeah but it's nice to have those connections with your family, you know, even if it's not you know, a day-to-day interaction yeah but you know you could be at the family picnic and you know uncle So-and-so doesn't love the way that you discipline your child, and you know, here we go.
Speaker 2:You know, so you're probably not going to be around, uncle So-and-so much, because there's too much controversy, or who the hell is he to tell me his opinion on something that I didn't even ask?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know that kind of thing. So but yeah, to your point about the holidays. I was using that as an example because that's when you see a lot of the time people getting together or it's more obligatory, whereas during just regular Sunday, saturday afternoon kind of thing, people aren't just hey, let's get together, unless they're close, you know, or unless they, you know, have that desire to spend time together and at the same time with holidays I don't know have that desire to spend time together and at the same time, with holidays.
Speaker 1:I don't know I'm just thinking about, because I know quite a few people who have an opinion about holidays like that and the things that it can negatively do, like that. There's so much pressure, this is we're going down a rabbit hole right now and kind of getting off topic, but there's just so much pressure to commit and and, to your point, be obligated to do the to do those things, whether you wanting to or not wanting to.
Speaker 1:And, honestly, if somebody is not wanting to come, why would you make them? Well, it could be. It could be for a variety of reasons.
Speaker 2:I mean we've talked to people and had different episodes on the podcast about like social anxiety and things where people are just they dread the idea of being in a room with a lot of other people. It just drains their energy. So there could be a lot of different reasons. It maybe is nothing personal, yeah, you know but there's. There's a circumstance that I had, I had read about on I think it was Quora where there was someone who had a new partner and that new partner wasn't kind to the kids and so, as you know, the kids have grown up. The new partner's, not the mom chose the new partner over the kid. Basically is kind of what I mean, just in a nutshell and I.
Speaker 2:I had this. I had this conversation at one point when I was I was in a few years back in a nutshell, and I, I had this. I had this conversation at one point when I was I was in a few years back in a relationship and uh, there was discussion about, uh, moving in together and I was just like I was not feeling it at all for the reason that my son didn't feel comfortable with this person at all, didn't? He just felt like there was something wrong, which he was right. There was something wrong. He, I think, when I maybe wasn't present, there's these little weird passive, aggressive things that were happening, kind of a thing, and my kid was saying I don't feel comfortable, you know. So, not about moving. We were just saying, just, generally speaking, didn't feel comfortable. So when the conversation came up, I was like you know what? I really don't know. I don't think this is a good time for this.
Speaker 2:You know, our boys are teenagers kind of a thing, and they're in the midst of a lot of change already and mine doesn't feel comfortable and the response I got which was very telling was so let me get this straight you're going to have your teenage son dictate and make a decision about our living situation, and my response was yep. I'm not going to put him in a situation where he doesn't feel comfortable. So I chose my kid and he was pissed.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know which, in hindsight, was the best decision, of course, I could have ever made. I did try to get a little bit more detail as to why he, my son, was feeling uncomfortable, but bottom line was that he was, his instincts were good and he and I made a good decision. But that's what I'm saying. Some people women, men, whatever they get into these second or third relationships, they put those relationships, in some cases maybe before what their children are feeling, and so there's a lot of resentment that can build up.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, and as they do get older, that's, you know, can be one of the things that they're going to be like well, yep, now she or he can go off and do that now, and I'm just gonna do my own thing.
Speaker 2:Right, and so you don't see those, those uh connections being strong you know, they're not.
Speaker 2:There's choices being made. Yep and I. I have a really hard time with that because you've got to balance those things out. You can't you can't have a kid dictating your direction, but at the same time, it's like there's pretty clear black and white things that you don't want them to be exposed to, or you don't want them to feel uncomfortable about. You want them to feel supported, and it's like isn't that kind of our job as parents, when our kids are under our supervision, is they have to be our priority? They have to be the ones that we are thinking about first, before we're making big decisions in our life? I would think I mean, that's how I'm looking at it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, until they're 18.
Speaker 2:You kind of have a responsibility, or even longer honestly, these days, these days they can be on your insurance until you're 26. Yeah, that's kind of crazy. So that's one of the items that was in this list that we were talking about.
Speaker 1:Let's kind of move through some of these. Yeah, Because I kind of want to touch on all 20. We don't have to talk about all 20, but I just want to throw them out there because I think, though they might not be relevant for either one of our situations, I think that any one of these can be relevant for anybody that's listening.
Speaker 1:You know, bring up a hmm you know a thought for them to think so one of them is not acknowledging that they're capable of more things Now, once they become an adult you know you still treat them like a child. Yeah, and I think as parents, we worry, we feel that anxiety for them. It's scary to see your children going out on their own. As adults and again I'm probably going to say this more than the second time again but trusting what we've done into play, I you know, and I learned that Rick told me that once he was like which Rick.
Speaker 1:Rick, Rick, my.
Speaker 2:Rick. We've got a lot of Rick's in our world, I know your construction, rick there's.
Speaker 1:there are a lot of Rick's in in our life. Your ex-husband, my husband is Rick, so so okay so my baby doll now, your baby doll now. So he's the one that one time I was, of course, having anxiety and worry about something and he was just like babe, you, there comes a point where you have to trust what you've done.
Speaker 1:And he was so right that hit me so hard and it's so true. You know, and that's you know as far as knowing that they're capable of more things when they're an adult and of course, you're going to see them fail.
Speaker 2:You're going to see them struggle. That is hard, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it is hard, but that's how they learn and grow. So we have to let them do those things, okay. Another one is holding on to grudges too much when it comes to your children.
Speaker 1:Or them holding grudges too much when it comes to your children, or them holding grudges Well, as far as them cutting ties with parents and we may hold grudges on some of the mistakes that they've made, and they might just be like I'm tired of it, I'm tired of hearing about it. I don't, yep, I made a mistake, I was wrong, I screwed up, and we're, you know, parents sometimes who just keep bringing it up.
Speaker 2:Well, they haven't gotten past it, clearly, obviously. You know, or it's, or it's like the the, the one thing that they have, that they kind of hold over their kid's head. You know, whatever it is, yeah. Maybe they got in a couple car accidents and wrecked the cars, so now and to eternity they're going to be shitty drivers right in their parents mind, you know so they'll never get past that yeah it's just like I'm.
Speaker 2:I am known for being quote flighty and quote generous, and those are not intended to be used in really positive ways. Yeah, the flighty, and you know I mean maybe I am.
Speaker 1:But do you see right now what you're saying? Some of those things.
Speaker 2:I think, self-fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 1:Well, no, some of those things, though, in how you feel, tend to maybe have you create a bit of a distance, because who wants to feel that way?
Speaker 2:all the time, or have it pointed out? Yeah, you're so generous.
Speaker 1:So anyways, so there could be another one. Yeah, watch that. And then there's the divorce thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sure there's adults out there that might think that if you went through a divorce that it didn't affect them as much. Maybe if they were a little older and were thinking it's okay, they're older, or you think you're handling it, you know the best way, or whatever.
Speaker 2:I think, how parents come out of those very traumatic experiences. For the most part, I would say it's a traumatic experience that they're just a lot of the time thinking about themselves. I mean, we've been through it, so I can you. It's like you don't. You do not realize how much impacts them, even at any age yeah you know, and it's really how the delivery is on a lot of those things, and and that will determine how they believe, how they think about it you know later, and at themselves and society or even if they would ever want to get married themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because they may not, because they're. The experience that they have or the relationships that they see around them are not positive or not healthy, and so they just choose not to, or they become emotionally available, unavailable themselves for people. It's so, you know. So that particular trauma or whatever that they witness is something that they carry on into other places. Now do they hold grudges about it? No, I think sometimes the kids, adult or otherwise they expect perfection, put their parents on some sort of a pedestal. When you're little, of course, you think your parents are all knowing, you think that they have the answers for everything and we all know that's not true, right, right. But as they get older, they realize that their parents are just human, and that's where a lot of the forgiveness comes in for the things that had taken place when they were young or you know when, when bad things were happening, whatever those things were. And so when you get older, it's like they might have a tendency to be more forgiving because they're doing the same thing with their kids, they start going through it.
Speaker 1:They start going through the shit, man, yeah.
Speaker 2:They were like oh man, how did you guys even handle this? Well, not very well. Sometimes. You know you do the best you can, but even as a parent, it's like you think about it. I'd never parented a kid and then you'd never parented a baby and then never parented a four-year-old.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're learning every step of the way. Yeah, every step of the way.
Speaker 2:And all kinds of new stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know along the way as well, what's another one Taking sides.
Speaker 1:Taking sides. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's a tough one because you know, when you have kids, kids that are wanting to get your feedback, sometimes they're like you were saying they want, they want to go where they think the answer is going to be what they want it to be. And when you have I mean if the kids are fighting, or I mean there's different stages obviously my kids always say, well, you favor so, and so you know. I kind of laugh about that because I'm like well, my standard response is I favor whomever needs me most at that time. So sometimes it's the same person for a while, and other times not at all for some other people, you know, and so. But definitely there is there's this whole favoritism thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's, that's true and I can feel that way, I think, for kids.
Speaker 2:Did you feel that way when you were a kid?
Speaker 1:I was just trying to think about that. There were eight of us, you know the oldest. When I was young there was 15 years, so I mean we were all eight around at for a while yeah and I don't know that I ever because I was the baby I think I kind of was the favorite, so I was the one that the other kids were probably feeling like. Shelly's your favorite, you do everything for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know, and I think babies always kind of get that rap. They're spoiled, they're the baby, they get everything. We never got that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you know, when it comes to multiple kids and if there's, you know, quarrels and fights going on, yeah, I can see where it might seem that you might be taking sides.
Speaker 2:Well, the one who fights the dirtiest or fights the meanest is the one that I'm not taking sides with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, even as they're adults.
Speaker 2:You just have to break it up, as they're adults too, oh, they can be mean.
Speaker 1:I mean as far as taking sides, you kind of, because there continues to be family dynamics even as they get older.
Speaker 2:As you get older too. I think that members of the family know where the weak spots and know where the vulnerable spots are, and so the ones that really want to get into it, they have the ability to do that. I mean, I'm no angel by any means, but I absolutely, 100% will not tolerate them being cruel to each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and I don't have that experience with my own siblings my siblings are great I've never had cruel experiences or cutting experiences or anything like that really at all. But there's definitely. I mean and I'm saying this with a smile on my face, but it's like there's totally favoritism in my family and but you know it's okay.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm kind of, in some respects I'm good with it, just because it's like it's so much effort for my sister and it's her personality. Yeah, she's just much more nurturing than I. I'm pretty nurturing, but not that nurturing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know I'm less patient. Blah, blah blah, so she can be the favorite Works for me.
Speaker 1:So another one of these is gosh and I don't withdrawing support if you see that they're doing something that you disagree with. I can't recall that I've done that. I always try to be there to support my kids, even through, I mean, cause they're gonna.
Speaker 2:Well, there've been circumstances just in the last year where you're just like what the fuck? I don't even know what to think, I don't even know how to feel about this, I don't even know what to say.
Speaker 1:I I just I need to process and you just, and you continue to support them in a different way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's so. Supporting them doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with them, of course not. No, you're not. You will not always agree with your children.
Speaker 1:And they will not always agree with you, and they, they won't always agree with me and they haven't always agreed with me. So it's just finding different ways to support through those those times. You know, even if they're making decisions that you don't understand or that you don't agree with, it doesn't mean you're pulling the rug out from under their life and like, well, I'm not going to support you as a parent. That's fucked up.
Speaker 2:It is but. But I also think it's important to I definitely let them know. Yeah, share your thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:About what you're. You know what you're seeing, what you're concerned about.
Speaker 1:In the room and it's not swept under the rug. There's definitely conversations.
Speaker 2:So maybe to the other siblings it looks like you're cool with everything. Yeah, Because they don't necessarily have.
Speaker 1:It's not everybody's business, right? It's not all in their conversation.
Speaker 2:They just think mom's cool with everything you know and they're going wow, that's really fucked up, because depending on what it is.
Speaker 1:So many family dynamics I know that can come up.
Speaker 2:I mean, I have a friend who has a son that's dating a young lady who has a child has a son that's dating a young lady who has a child, and there is a lot of concern.
Speaker 2:I guess you could say about that, and I and I look at that and I'm kind of like, well, it could, it could just be a phase you know too, but I guess you have to. I mean, do I want that as a parent? Would I want that? No, I want my kid to have experiences that are different, probably, but then I'm not the one making those choices and I don't know that person might be a really good person for them. But do I I mean? I don't know.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking about this with my friend and I'm kind of like, wow, that's a tough one, because you don't want that person to feel like you don't support them, that person to feel like you don't support them, right, and or ignore them or pretend like they don't exist. When I was, you know, 20, whatever, I had, uh, dated a couple of different guys. One was half black, the other one was mexican, and they were not well received in my house, you know, and and. But now I understand, like my one of my cousins had written this thesis on there's a whole nother topic that we should have him on for it Cause it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 2:but on my mom's family and how she grew up and where they were and what the I don't want to say caste system, but but the she's from south america you know, but the um hierarchy yeah you know, of people that were, uh, of different descents, and it's like this big light bulb went off in my head because I mean, obviously there is, there is time or circumstances taking place which has generated thought processes and and she's 90. So, you know this is going back a long ways, but all of a sudden I'm just like okay, this is where this comes from. Yeah, it helped me understand her a lot more. Do I agree with her? Of course not.
Speaker 2:I don't agree with how she does that, but at the same time, I'm trying to understand. You know that that's how she learned, and so it's not. It's not. She's not bad, a bad person or anything like that. She's just in her mind. She's looking at it like I can do better.
Speaker 1:Yeah which sounds terrible, but that's that's what it was, you know, at the time, yeah.
Speaker 2:So and of course I push back because I, I, I don't like that. So there we go. There's, like the little so the differentiation between that parent-child relationship. At that time you can see how it would have progressed over time. We're still close, we still spend time together and do stuff together, but there's just components that were just so different and it's just easier sometimes to keep those things separate, you know, just for lack of just anything else than saying you don't want to be fighting all the time or disagreeing all the time or feel bad all the time you know, so some more of these and maybe try to think of the context around some of these and and maybe try to think of, um, the context around some of these.
Speaker 1:You as the adult child, yeah, and in relation to your parents and and how you feel so, um, you know, or as a parent, were you always, are you are, your jokes and teasing are you doing? You know, sometimes families have that dynamic where they're joking and teasing a lot and maybe some of that really was hurtful at times and it went unnoticed and undiscussed and so as they got old, you know, it's just like another one of those things or being dismissive and critical that can cause.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know or like a like a father treating his daughter differently than he treats the son, where he doesn't allow the daughter to do the same things that the son is doing because she's a girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think that is that would be. Yeah, I didn't have any girls, so I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I know like I'm thinking about Mary. It's like she had brothers and all that kind of stuff, and it's like they were awful to her. I mean, they were really really cruel to her in a lot of ways. And it was just all in fun, right.
Speaker 1:You know Right.
Speaker 2:It's like the dad didn't really think two things about it. And I think a lot of it was happening, maybe when he wasn't around, but there's no way in hell she was going to tattle on her brothers because they would have gotten their butts beat, you know. So yeah, the dynamics sometimes can be really interesting when we're thinking about our kids or any kids growing up and starting to become adults. They probably don't even realize that they're setting boundaries with you, but they might be setting boundaries with you.
Speaker 2:And I mean there's already boundaries If you think about there's things that they don't tell us, there's things that we don't tell our parent. You know it's like there's just some things you don't need to talk about with your parents, you know. Talk about them with your girlfriend, or you talk about it with your boyfriend or whatever. But when those boundaries are ignored, which we've talked about a little bit, sometimes hopefully the child has been raised to have a voice and they can actually speak respectfully and just say I'm not comfortable talking about these things, this is, this is private or whatever, and and basically put that boundary right back up and some parents will take a big offense to that yeah but they never should have been in their, their kids business anyway, their kids an adult as an adult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and is what I'm saying as an adult now, when they're not, when they're kids, it's like those boundaries are different.
Speaker 2:They have to be because you have responsibility, obviously, to them. But I think sometimes the things that people in a family think are endearing are kind of cruel. They can be cruel the things that they say or do or you know. I'm thinking of, like, the nicknames that kids have given, or kids have given their siblings, or whatever, and they're really hurtful, like you had a few, didn't you, I was just shelly belly, shelly belly yeah, yeah, mary they were.
Speaker 2:They called her, uh, buffy because she she was a gymnast and she had very strong legs and they equated her to being fat, so they called her buffy. Now, other people outside of their family might not have understood what that meant.
Speaker 1:Buffy the vampire slayer.
Speaker 2:Well, that didn't happen there was nothing like that. But it's like but she knew what they meant and so they would make that comment and it would be really hurtful, but she would play it off because the more that they knew that it bothered her, the more they would do it. You know, it was that kind of a thing as a kid, but anyway, the more they would do it.
Speaker 2:You know, is that kind of a thing as a kid, but anyway. So I think, going back to the boundaries, I think it's really important that as as kids, they start to learn that sort of thing. And I know, for us as adults, I know I learned those sorts of things with circumstances that came up where I felt like I needed to put a boundary in place. Maybe I didn't even know that's what it was, what I was doing, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, and as far as boundaries go, just there have been boundaries I have recognized when there have been some boundaries set for me. And it may be in the moment I took offense to it or maybe got a little defensive. But stepping back and understanding the reason and really coming to recognize things, I respect that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I do respect that.
Speaker 2:So I just I like it when people are. They can be kind, but they're direct. I don't like like talking in circle kind of shit, and it's like if you've got something to say, just say it, or yeah, you know it's like there's something that's bothering you or something that I said that hurt you. I want to know.
Speaker 1:I don't need it. I don't need you to avoid me.
Speaker 2:I know I don't need you to avoid me.
Speaker 1:Because I'll go up to you, go, what's going on.
Speaker 2:What's wrong? I mean, then I, the person who's breaking the boundary, can even learn from that if you don't know what's going on. So there's kind of that to think about. And yeah, people are. People do, as a general rule, what I'm finding have a lot of difficulty with being direct, because they're worried about hurting people's feelings or yeah they're uncomfortable about speaking their mind or whatever. You know triangulate. Oh yeah, so I was one of one of my friends and another one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she, it would be where the parent would go to the sibling and then the sibling would come around to the parent.
Speaker 1:Now I've never really had that. Yeah, you're. You're utilizing your family like a chess game.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So to speak, and using one child to do something with another, because maybe you can't do that for that, you know, and that would just get messy that gets messy and where it seems like that kind of thing would be more prevalent in larger families.
Speaker 1:I would imagine yeah.
Speaker 2:Because when you obviously if you have less kids in your family, none of that stuff's probably happening. My brother does that to me all the time, actually now, but he's mentally ill, so we give him a break. He goes, he goes to my mom, who goes to Angie, who goes to me, who goes? And I'm just kind of like I, I get so pissed. I'm just like I being ridiculous.
Speaker 1:But so I just shut up because he can't help it. But but yeah, so that can get messy. Yeah, it gets very messy. That recognize that if you can yep um. And then there's taking liberties that you're not entitled to.
Speaker 2:So whatever that could be, but don't do it taking liberties like infringing upon their life in certain scenarios or like just showing, just showing up at their house and, yeah, using the emergency key without their knowledge yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:And then just showing up and, and yeah, inserting yourself right in regard to or inserting yourself in disagreement, making it seem like supporter opinions or some you know where you're. Not necessarily you have been invited right, okay, yeah, all right, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:You don't allow them to be independent or to live or some you know where. You're not necessarily have been invited, right, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:All right that makes sense.
Speaker 2:You don't allow them to be independent or to live their own lives. I think sometimes that's more about the parent, certainly, than it is about the kid, like the parent's having trouble letting go, and when they can't let go, then that's what ends up happening. Yeah, because they don't. They've invested all of their energy in this human who's now an adult and is trying to do their own thing, and they don't know what to do with themselves. I really think that's what that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't have that problem, but I have no people that, do you know, because their, their lives or their world is kind of small, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They don't have a lot of outside interest. Whatever, their kids are their main 100% focus, which isn't a bad thing. But it is a bad thing when you don't have any ability to develop as yourself or have your own thoughts opinions, hobbies, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, that's a broader scope. I kind of really in the last six months have had to let my youngest I know.
Speaker 2:It's actually hilarious to watch.
Speaker 1:I think we've gotten to a place where it's much better.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know there's a lot of factors involved there. He still does live in my home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's still in school, you know he is an adult.
Speaker 1:He hasn't quite graduated college yet, but he's still in school. You know he is an adult, he hasn't quite graduated college yet, but he's almost there.
Speaker 2:And but I was cracking up. It was it wasn't that long ago, maybe a couple months ago, where you were like where were you? What time were you gonna be home? Who are you with? And I'm like michelle sometimes I just do it to because I know it gets them going oh yeah, but well, it's like you can't get a word out of the kid and no matter what I think some of that is my older kids they always told you there was a lot of dynamics.
Speaker 1:No, I constantly have had to worry about all my children a lot yeah and and there were a lot of dynamics in our family and, and so sometimes, unfortunately, my brain goes to uh case scenarios.
Speaker 2:Well, that's pretty normal, isn't it, you know?
Speaker 1:like if he's taking the train home from Tukwila. I'm like, and I haven't heard from him or I don't know what time he's going to be where, and then he's taking the bus from the end. It's 10 o'clock at night.
Speaker 2:There's things that I worry about. I mean, he is a grown ass man, I know.
Speaker 1:I know, mess with him, I mean worry about he's formidable, you know he's, yeah, and maybe.
Speaker 2:Maybe he got tired of taking the bus and took an uber.
Speaker 1:I own that. I own that yeah, so it's this, but I've definitely gotten better.
Speaker 2:I've, but I've had, I've actually had a big chuckle on that one because I'm just like michelle. It's like, seriously, you're being a helicopter, leave him alone, for god's sake but then it's like but if he? Spoke a little. I mean if he actually had a conversation with you about some of these things. Hey, mom, I'm heading out with so and so blah blah blah, I'll be back tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Whatever he said good night to me last night.
Speaker 2:Oh so yeah, I think he knows, he knows it's like he, he kind of probably senses that it's like that time is coming for him to be yeah, more independent, and so he's trying to figure it out, and Mama's not loving that he hasn't said Mom, I'm figuring it out. That's why I'm being so evasive with you.
Speaker 1:Is that where there's another one here treating them like kids?
Speaker 2:even though they're adults.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's probably more for ourselves.
Speaker 2:But, I mean, I think they'll always be kids to us, Just like, you know, our parents think about us as kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my mom says you'll always be my baby, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like we're still children to them. Yeah, my mom always says, oh, you're so young. And I just look at her and go what? Yeah?
Speaker 1:Well, compared to her, I am, I suppose, yeah well, compared to her, I am, I suppose, yeah, and I. I remember my mom years ago said even when you're old, shelly, you'll still be my baby, oh I love that it's so true and I never I think about it. Is very true, it'll always be that for her. So anyways, comparing them to others, comparing our adult children to others, not a good thing. I know, I've done that. I've done that before I've done it before.
Speaker 2:I know I have where it's kind of and I, and I've caught myself. You know where it's been. You know, like the golden child, the, the, we won't even say which one it is, but the golden child, like we don't know, because I don't think I. I mean he, he had it probably the hardest because he had probably the most discipline. The youngest, I think, was the one that had the most handed to him on a silver platter really, but differently. But yeah, I, yeah, never mind yeah we just won't get into that one yeah um, but they think, they, they definitely think that he's the favorite.
Speaker 1:So not recognizing who they are now as adults. You know, refusing to to, sometimes they might refuse to meet up or speak with you. They just don't want to deal with it. They don't think you understand them or know who they are as an adult, and it's probably hard for them to to find you know, a playing field will that is comfortable, so they just I think they end up living a lot of the time the kids.
Speaker 2:They're living like a completely separate life and you don't even know it they've left your nest and are building their own right. But I mean, there's there's just a lot of stuff that's going on with them that you, you're just not a part of yeah, you know, and for sure and you have no clue what's's happening.
Speaker 1:And it's hard because for their whole lives you. Yeah you were there and you were part of all that. It is definitely. I can see where it's hard for parents sometimes to separate that step back. Let them be and I'm speaking for myself right now and just let them be and have what they have and do what they do, and be who they are and support them from afar.
Speaker 2:Okay. So on the flip side of that, there are parents I know that are our age, that have children around our age who have, like, literally said, I'm done, I'm, I'm. My kids are grown, they've flown the nest, I'm out out of here and they're literally living their own lives, to the point where the kids are like what about us? What Don't you want to hang out with us? There's a lot of speculation on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah there is a lot of, I think, conversation and differences of opinions on that. And, yeah, there are those out there that do that and that's what they want to do and, and you're right, that's got to be hard on to the flip side, for the kids like what the heck? Yeah, for whatever reasons they're doing that. And then there are those that say you'll always be a parent to your children. So I think that's true you'll always be a parent to your children, but it doesn't mean that you will always parent them, right.
Speaker 2:There's a difference. There's a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can support and be there for them emotionally. You can talk to them and give them advice if they want it, if it's being asked for, if you know they're listening. If it goes to deaf ears, there's no point. So a lot of different scenarios there.
Speaker 2:I think what it really boils down to is that if you have any semblance of a relationship with your parent or with your child, you know, depending upon what role you're playing and there are riffs that are created because of some of these things we're talking about here. I think everybody's in pain. Everybody is really, whether they show it or not, they're struggling with it and I know myself I would have a really hard time with my kids distancing themselves from me because of one of these things. I mean, I would try to fix it. Communication.
Speaker 1:Like if I think sadly there's going to be those things that we might not know, If there is communication, as parents we need to not get butthurt about things. We need to recognize that we're not always right. We need to genuinely apologize for things that may have hurt them that we didn't even realize were going on when they were younger.
Speaker 2:So or you know their living situation is maybe not great, or they're like terrible housekeepers, or you know, whatever. And so you walk in and it's like it's not the way you have your house, so you have to shut your mouth yeah and just like not pay attention to that because, what good is it going to do to say your your kitchen's not clean? Right it's like you ever wash your dish. I mean, it's like what good would it?
Speaker 1:be to do that kind of thing, something like that yeah, obviously there's reason.
Speaker 2:It's like either they are super overwhelmed or they're just they don't care.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know there's probably or something in between. Yeah, or a combination of both. Yeah, for whatever reasons, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. Audience, when we're talking about this, it's like if you're the kid or if you're the parent, it doesn't really matter, or if you you're not a parent yet, it's like these are things to kind of think about, because everything we're talking about here directly impacts the, the depth and the uh legacy of your family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, and your your relationship with the little people or you, the grown people that nurtured you. You don't get those. There's not that many of those types of relationships around that you can really cherish. So if you're able to stay close and you're able to work through some of these things. What Michelle said earlier about communication, I think it's really critical. That's probably the healthiest way to approach it.
Speaker 1:And again Kate Schroeder, who is a phenomenal counselor and therapist. Her website information is still on our Instagram page. So, there's that too, I think you know. I was talking to my sister-in-law who her daughter is a therapist. I had no idea. And she is licensed here in Washington. She lives in Texas, she's licensed in Texas and Washington. But you know, I kind of made a joke about needing therapy and she just said, you know, we all do to a certain degree, and it's very true. I think everybody can benefit.
Speaker 2:I think therapy is just getting outside of your head and having things be.
Speaker 1:you're trying to look at things more objectively you're trying to look at things more objectively and taking the step to acknowledge and be able to communicate those things to someone who has a non biased opinion or you know, feedback to be able to objective. Objective to help you. So, anyways, that that's a whole lot to unpack and obviously we're not going to do it in the little time that we sit here and chat together.
Speaker 2:I think we should do another episode down the road where we maybe bring somebody in to talk about their experiences with their adult children or their experiences as a child with an adult, just because obviously we have our own and there's a lot of circumstances like I've shared about, just like conversations with friends and things that are on here, but I think it'd be great to hear some other folks on it too, because we can go deeper on the topic In the meantime.
Speaker 1:If there's anything you liked about this, just download the episode, because you can always refer back to that. And, of course, you can find us out on all the socials Instagram, facebook, and we're still on TikTok, as long as they don't censor it or ban it, one of the two. We're there for now, so, in the meantime, everybody have a wonderful, wonderful day.
Speaker 2:We'll see you next week. Peace out, bye, bye.