Catching up with Ozzie Melendez, our second trombone player, is like being teleported into the heart of the music industry. From his musical beginnings in fourth grade to landing the big gig with Willie Colon's band, Ozzie shares the essence of a musician's journey, and why it’s crucial to seize every opportunity to prove oneself. We swap hilarious anecdotes featuring fellow musician Terry Nigrelli and reminisce about Ozzy's inaugural gig tour in Peru.
Striding onto the bigger stage, Ozzy takes us backstage, revealing his experiences with big band legends like Bruce Springsteen, Mark Anthony, and Blood Sweat and Tears. The essence of a good gig, he believes, lies in preparation and keen attention. The conversation takes a nostalgic turn as we compare the club dates of the past to the gigs of today and the unique challenges a trombone player faces.
As we move towards the end of our discussion, Ozzy peels back the curtain on his collaborations with various musicians, the challenges and the opportunities encountered as a free musician, and the four phases of a musician's life. Tune in to be enlightened about the music industry, the evolution of recording music, and how the industry has drastically changed over the past two decades.
Check out Ozzie's publication "Dynamic Flexibility" and his full bio at https://ozziemelendez.com/
Check out our collaboration at
https://youtu.be/yUqwLFUmg8g
Catching up with Ozzie Melendez, our second trombone player, is like being teleported into the heart of the music industry. From his musical beginnings in fourth grade to landing the big gig with Willie Colon's band, Ozzie shares the essence of a musician's journey, and why it’s crucial to seize every opportunity to prove oneself. We swap hilarious anecdotes featuring fellow musician Terry Nigrelli and reminisce about Ozzy's inaugural gig tour in Peru.
Striding onto the bigger stage, Ozzy takes us backstage, revealing his experiences with big band legends like Bruce Springsteen, Mark Anthony, and Blood Sweat and Tears. The essence of a good gig, he believes, lies in preparation and keen attention. The conversation takes a nostalgic turn as we compare the club dates of the past to the gigs of today and the unique challenges a trombone player faces.
As we move towards the end of our discussion, Ozzy peels back the curtain on his collaborations with various musicians, the challenges and the opportunities encountered as a free musician, and the four phases of a musician's life. Tune in to be enlightened about the music industry, the evolution of recording music, and how the industry has drastically changed over the past two decades.
Check out Ozzie's publication "Dynamic Flexibility" and his full bio at https://ozziemelendez.com/
Check out our collaboration at
https://youtu.be/yUqwLFUmg8g
What's up, john? Alright, so you ready? This is episode 11 of On Drums. I don't know why I'm calling this thing On Drums now, because it's been. You're my second trombone player Today. I have Ozzy Melendez. Wait a minute if this will help any. Oh wait, he's got. He's got some. He's running over to his drums. I see him. I need you to play drums, right, which is exactly why he could stick the trombone that was good man, that was very Latino. That was supposed to be a James Brown groove. Oh, it was okay.
Speaker 1:Anyway so anyway you might like. This is supposed to be a drummer's podcast. I don't know how it happened this happened, but you're my second trombone player, so what are the odds? You know who's the first Terry DeGrelly.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. I love Terry. What a great guy, what a great musician.
Speaker 1:He had some funny anecdotes, you know, and he does it for music. You know funny lines and stuff. You know. His best line was there's a fine line between being discovered and found out. That's good.
Speaker 2:He's like an intellectual. Yeah, Terry's a good guy.
Speaker 1:And he listens to these podcasts. So he's going to be like oh, you know, we planned that portal. I've known him forever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I do gigs with Terry, and you know he was. We shouldn't be talking about Terry, it's supposed to be the other things. But anyway, we're off the subject. Terry, I do gigs with him. He stands right next to me and because he was a band teacher and because I was a band teacher, I'll be playing and he'll lean over and go. Mr Simione, I forgot my clarinet. You're bringing back the trauma of what I used to go through day after day, there we go.
Speaker 2:Did you teach at high school, at ISEAP as well? I taught at.
Speaker 1:West ISEAP, west ISEAP. He was in Bayshore, anyway. So you, this is what's going on with this podcast, ozzy. You know it's evolved into like everybody's in a different place now, like success-wise and in their careers, and you know the idea is, you know how you got there and you know, give me your resume. Let's start with that. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, it's long right, it's pretty long how I got here. I would rather answer, and that's just from sheer stick-to-it-ness. I guess you would say Just keep at it. You know, I just I kept at it. Nobody told me that I couldn't do it, right, you know?
Speaker 1:and you know what I said. Billy had us at Hellison's the same kind of thing. He said he just showed up there every gig like it was the gig. Yeah, it was that gig.
Speaker 2:Totally. I mean, even to this day. It doesn't matter what kind of gig I do. I'm sure everybody will say the same thing. We give 100 million percent. Because why? We love playing, we love the music. You know, we're true to it. But resume-wise, how did you start? How about that? I started in fourth grade, Bauer School, Lindenhurst played trombone. My best friend was a year older than I was. I copied him. I was in third, he was in fourth. He got to pick the trombone first. I saw him walking to school, to bus stop every morning. So when it was my turn, when I became fourth grade, you know, in fourth grade, I said, well, I'll pick the trombone, and so that's what. That was it. And then he quit and he became like a big wiggit AT&T. But am I popping? Let me see if I put this better.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's probably going to help you.
Speaker 2:And so I decided to play trombone and I guess I had some kind of a talent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the third funk guy, the third funk guy I've had, had you Scarpaul and had Greg Slike too. Oh cool, nobody's drummers. All my brothers, yeah, all your brothers, that's right. So you started, okay, so you know elementary school, obviously. Then what was your first gig? Like the gig gig, I mean, the funk flow, harmonic was a big thing.
Speaker 2:Well, you're talking about the main professional gig, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whatever you consider like the big break, I think the big break.
Speaker 2:Well, I used to. I used to sub at the China Club on Monday nights in Manhattan and that was like that was a big not sub. What am I talking about? I used to sit in at the China Club. There was a house band there and it was like a jam night, monday nights, and everybody would play because that's where the beacon theater was. So whoever was playing at the beacon theater, inevitably they would come down to the beacon theater downstairs and they would jam. So everybody I read the Franklin, everybody would come down and play and since there wasn't really many bone players that would come, I was the guy. So I guess I got a lot of work from that and the very first thing that I got called to do was do an audition for Willie Cologne's band, which is he's like the I don't know James Brown.
Speaker 1:Like Ray Burrero. He's like a Ray Burrero guy, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he kind of started the salsa sensation he has. He produced, he also played trombone and sang. And that was my first gig. I went, I toured with him. My first touring gig was in Peru.
Speaker 1:So how old were you when? That was when that happened.
Speaker 2:Uh, I mean I'm really bad with time, but I think it was probably around 26. Maybe, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're a young guy you're a young guy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was a big break because he was super famous. He was already, you know, the fine old stars. He was already up there with the. You know he produced Celia Cruz. He produced a heck to love all, who are all big idols of my mother and father. I heard them growing up. I didn't know who they were, but that that music was played my whole life when I was growing up and so. But I never played it. I was always Mr Funk and and pop and some jazz and I was doing that kind of stuff. So my parents didn't think when I, you know, I told him, hey, I just got a call to us. They were really cologne. They're thinking, yeah, right, but I got the gig and that's kind of where it started. And then I went from there, went with a Mexican pop artist named Manuel and then and then I started getting some American stuff and then, and you know, we all kind of helped each other.
Speaker 1:You know about Scarpaula, we all but you did a couple of gigs with Scarpaula right, some big, some big venues, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did. Well, actually. Then I became the music. After a couple of years I became a musical director, Willie Cologne. So I brought John Scarpaula. Yeah, he loved it, he loved, he loves Latin music. I mean, what's not to love? Latin music is amazing, especially as a drummer, you know. The rhythms are just outrageous. And so we did those gigs together. And then he brought me along with Diana Ross years later, and so we've so John, wait, John was doing Diana Ross and he got you into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he, if I remember correctly, he, he got me in the gig and then we had to do the arrangement. So he came over like two nights before we had to go rehearse in LA and we did all the arrangements. We got hired to do all the arrangements for her, for her show, all of them, every trick and song we did in two nights. We would down here in my studio, here, and I would be banging stuff out and then sending it to him who was? He was right over here, you know, on the couch. I would send it to him and then he put it all into because I would write it down, right, I would do it that way and then I'd give it to him and he would poke it into the right.
Speaker 2:Okay, so now that he used something else. I can't, but we did that and then other stuff too. I mean, he, he got, he used to do Mary Wilson as well. He was the music director. Oh, I didn't know that, john, I didn't know that he wasn't a musical director, he was the contractor of the horn. I wish he came to play at BB Kings or any of those places. He would be the horn contractor. And so we did temptations, we did the four tops, we did Mary Wilson. Um, all those bands that came through town, somebody had a piece of it, you know, as far as horn contracting, and so we would do all that stuff as well.
Speaker 1:Uh, huh, so, um so, okay, so then that was so now. So now we're. Diana Ross was after Willie Cologne and the Latin guys.
Speaker 2:And then I did Mark Anthony for that. So that was a big one, right, mark? Yeah, that's 2002. I started in 2002 and I just left now, this, this, this year. I was there for 20 years and with Mark Anthony Mark Anthony, 20, just touring the world with him. You know I was I.
Speaker 1:I this is I don't know when this was. If you've been with them 20 years, must have been on an early seven years ago. But there was a you put. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I remember seeing you on Facebook and, like you, I guess you had your phone and you were on stage with with um, with him, yeah, and you were filming the audience like from the state you were on the gig. Pretty bullsy. I don't recommend that to anybody, mark Anthony.
Speaker 1:And that's the first guy I've noticed like the trauma got his phone out. But what I would do, is?
Speaker 2:I don't remember that I ever. I mean, I remember once I put it in my pocket maybe it was on your stand or something.
Speaker 1:That's what it was.
Speaker 2:And. But there was a lot of times when this, when the IG was happening, and everybody was saying, man, you need to get followers, I was trying to think of ways to do that. Oh yeah, and that's, that's a way, right. So I would put the mic, I would put the, the phone on the stand, but facing me, not the audience facing me, and I would just record myself playing. And I got a lot of followers because I guess his fans and then Trump player fans, right and like all that, just started mingling and so I remember them telling me find what it is that they like and keep posting that type of stuff. So that's what I did, and every once in a while I would turn the mic, I would turn the, the stand around and I guess it would show the audience. That's what I was like, wow, and they never reprimanded me, so I figured it was okay. You know, I mean I didn't deliberately, you can't see what.
Speaker 2:I'm doing now, but I didn't take the phone and, like you know, hold it up until you looked like looked like the state, the band was gigantic and yeah, it was a 15 piece band yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and was there a live drummer on that or what's it? Percussionists I know, but there was a drummer too, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, drummers, amazing Jesse Caravaggio. He played drums and when he wasn't playing drums because there was there wasn't very many songs that we played drums the introduction had some stuff, because he did that song I need to know. There was kind of like a rock cha cha, but the rest of it was for salsa. So when Jesse wasn't playing drums he would play team ballast. And then there was a guy that was playing con guy, there was a guy that was playing bongo and and there was another guy that was playing minor percussion as well. So there was four guys there just taking care of that's interesting, nick Mark Anthony.
Speaker 1:His big hit was I need to know, right, that's it.
Speaker 2:I'm his. His big crossover hit is Latin. His American hit, yeah, but he had a million Latin. I mean he's legendary, the guys just outrageous right.
Speaker 1:So you're doing a lot Latino crowds, I mean when you go, when those, those are all most mostly Latino crowds here.
Speaker 2:What's that?
Speaker 1:like man. It must be like a weird looking at all those people, right? I mean, it's um well now.
Speaker 2:It's even now. It's even crazier. I mean, I'm, I'm with Bruce Springsteen now, so I'm we're doing stadiums that are doing 78 80,000 people. You know, I think I just got an email from the head guy there saying that we just we played for over two million people in the past, I think four months. Oh shit, no, it's crazy. It's crazy he's.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean what that's got to be like. Surreal that you're standing up there, right people, the whole place Is going wild, probably, right.
Speaker 2:The whole place is going wild. There's a song that he does it's called Bobby Jean and the whole audience just yeah, left, right, with the hands up in the air, in time, and as far as you could see is just a wave of people Waving their hands at the same, in synchronicity with the music. Right, it's unbelievable, it's just, it's breathtaking for sure.
Speaker 1:So wait who else? Um, mario used to do that gig right, mario cruise did Bruce.
Speaker 2:Right, mario, way back when yeah, I heard that he had done it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so that's um, what's the schedule? Like, like with something like that, how does that work? I got me used to like you know club dates where you get, like you know this week is where you go on this weekend.
Speaker 2:But we started in january. We did january, february, march and april in the united states and then we went over to europe and we just did the last three months there. I just got home a few days ago.
Speaker 1:So so your schedule will give me, give me like a typical work week.
Speaker 2:Typical work week will be. We fly Um charter, thank god.
Speaker 1:You might as well find a commercial to find a band. That big commercial forget it.
Speaker 2:Oh my god. Well, we did it with margagani.
Speaker 1:Yeah, commercial, huh, all commercial uh, um.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we fly into a place we A lot of times will be off. Well, we will definitely be off that night. We might be off the next day as well, but typically we don't do two shows in a row. It'll be a show, travel, maybe another day off and then a show and then a travel. So there'll never be.
Speaker 1:When you travel, you traveling within the same, like a sort of proximity of where you are. I mean, you're not so traveling far, is it like?
Speaker 2:if you're like amsterdam, then we did germany, we did a hamburg, then we fly to munich and then we went to vienna, which, by the way, vienna, austria, my god, most I've heard good things about that. Oh, my god place is so beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, ridiculous. So it's a step up from like, say, the crest hollow.
Speaker 2:Oh, what are that? Maybe not lennards Leonard's a great neck?
Speaker 1:I don't think lennards are still standing, is it? I think it's burned down or something I don't know. Um what's the one that's definitely gone? The hunting town Um, the hunting town is just gone.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, what about you remember the narrowganza didn't in the? Oh yeah, I mean, that's gone too. That's gone, it is gone.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think it's a cvs now and I think it's.
Speaker 2:It's better than cvs.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna get in the cvs than an air against it in.
Speaker 2:You know, they all serve their purpose, all the place, that's true.
Speaker 1:That's true. I mean, I mean you did club dates right.
Speaker 2:I mean you did a lot of club dates and I worked for rick mango, who that's an amazing band leader, and I say I say this a lot to people to ask me about you know how, what does it like to work for bruce? I go, well, I think working for rick was kind of getting me Uh, you know, used to having to watch the band leader always, because bruce is always changing the arrangements, he's changing the set list, he's changing He'll In in the middle of any kind of song. He may point to you when you got to blow a solo, so you gotta know what he had saying, you gotta you know, you gotta be ready. And rick was like that too, rick, always, that's you know rick.
Speaker 1:I was. I worked with gust from long time. Gus kaledi, gus kaledi and goss and rick were similar in that way and they there was, it's not like it is now, man, it's like you go on a club date now and it's like there's like everybody's got their charts and they got they do that. They play the beginning of the song to the end of the song. There's no, you can't go take you know, go back to the court. Nobody wants to do, they just play the song. But with those guys it was like they just start the gig with like okay, swing, be flat, boom, and you start and everybody just played, everybody's like, and they and they same thing, like you know to take it around again or do a solo, and that was that kind of gig. You had to.
Speaker 2:You had to pay attention you had to pay attention and you had him. You had to know what, what you were doing.
Speaker 1:You had to know you had to be prepared for anything and that's what it was right. Yeah, so that that uh, that kind of was like a learn anything from me. I remember being with those guys. You know I I'm still doing it now. When I go on a gig and I'm looking around like you know, somebody cue me, somebody just point to me something, give me like they really know yeah, it's, it's different these days.
Speaker 2:We don't, we don't need to go.
Speaker 1:I've been on gigs with, like recently. We're like it's like nobody's even looking at you, like I'm like. You know I just I was guys. You know I'm the bass player. Well, once in a while they'll throw me a bone, like you know, maybe tempo or something. You know Tempo is my big gripe. You know I have a I got a thing with tempo, you know.
Speaker 1:The drummer gets everything's too fast, too fast. Well, I, I started doing a thing. Now, like I songs, I would count off and say you know, do you want me to count it up too fast or too slow? That's the way I started. Every so which which is it gonna be? Because it was never right. You know, it's like the singers wouldn't count their own tunes off. They'd rather you started a certain tempo and then correct you. You know that's Right. Right, although this is just me, which could also be the problem.
Speaker 2:That's hysterical.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so um. So now you're, you're doing Bruce Springsteen, yeah, and that's like your full-time gig.
Speaker 2:now You're just yeah, we really can't do much else. I mean, like now, like I said, I've been out for a while, so I just got home, I'm home for a week, and then I fly to Chicago when we play two shows at Wrigley Fields Check that out, yeah and then it just keeps going till the end of the year. With stuff like that. It's it's amazing to me, it's amazing in every way. I mean, it's definitely a gig that I think every musician Should somehow Experience, because not just musically right, he's iconic with his music but just how they, how we're treated. Um, you know, I heard you and and and who was the guest that you had? The drummer? Oh my God, uh, joel, joel, yeah, I hope you're not listening to like, couldn't remember your name.
Speaker 1:So who was in black? You know things.
Speaker 1:I'm going to call him after this and tell him to listen. I know, joel, how's he couldn't remember his name. Oh my God. Well, no, you know, that's one of the things Terry said. He said there's there's four stages of every musician's life. The first stage is I got to use my name First. Who the hell is John Simeone? The second stage is we got to get John Simeone on his gig. The third stage is we need a young John Simeone, right? The first stage is who the hell is John Simeone?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I forget a lot of stuff, but he was saying stuff like that. I just you know the treatment and the stuff that you have to go through always in the trenches. You know, as a free musician, we're in the trenches and so you put up a lot of stuff that you wouldn't normally put up with in any other you know field.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you are very, very, very good friends with Joel and Joel's great we played with.
Speaker 2:Buzz when he is together.
Speaker 1:I played with him and with.
Speaker 2:Bernie Williams as well. We played together.
Speaker 1:Right, and Joel did Michelle Camille for a while, I know.
Speaker 2:I did not know that until I listened to the podcast the other day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and with Anthony Jackson. Anthony Jackson was playing bass. Yeah, I had no idea. He invited me to see those guys you come down to. I forget where they were. It was like could it have been McKels? I don't remember. But I stayed at his house and he says just come to my gig. I had no idea what this gig was. There was no seat for me, so we stuck a seat two feet from Anthony's bass, like almost on his stages, where I was sitting by myself. No table.
Speaker 2:Watching a Broadway musician play here, right.
Speaker 1:And I was like like the two hours, like what the hell is happening here? I had no idea. I had no idea. For us it was a trio. You know, it's not like a trio because of those. You know, michelle plays like he's got 10 hands and Anthony Jackson, I mean, it was like it was ridiculous. I had no clue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the musicians there is you know, and actually it's funny because you know, I don't think you know Joel, the date was on that gig first, like that was Weckels gig, right, and he recommended Joel and and you know he's, you know it was like when Joel told me about it, he was like you know, tell me about the band. And I said, well, what's, you know, it's, it's. I didn't know who this guy was, so I was like it sounds like it's going to be great. I mean, don't worry about it, it's like a stepping stone he goes a stepping stone, he goes I'm, I'm this stepping stone to this stepping stone. When I heard the band and I was like I, I, I, you know still to this day.
Speaker 2:Imagine how big you have to be to sub out of that band Like Weckels. No, I can't do it. I have a funny.
Speaker 1:I have a funny story. I well, I don't think my kids are going to listen to this, but it doesn't matter. But you know, I'm, I'm, I'm married and divorced, right and remarried. So my, my first wedding, joel was the best man, oh, wow and um. He called me like a week before and he said I can't make it on my machine. I'm an answer machine. I can't make your wedding, I'm going to be.
Speaker 2:oh yeah, he said this on the podcast. I'm going to be in Bolivia or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I heard the story.
Speaker 1:I was like oh my God, I didn't call him back. And before I called him back he said he called me back and said, don't worry, I got a sub. I was like who the hell could you possibly get to sub for you? And it was Weckel. So they were probably like, yeah, go go, go to the wedding, you're good. We got a good sub man, we're good, Anyway, that's. That's just a funny story.
Speaker 2:Half. This is about Joel, by the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so. So tell me about, like, how does it? How does it work, like the three years, like to be local on the island and like be flying, like you're flying out a lot. How does that work for as far as, like, your life is concerned, like your personal life? Personal life, oh, I mean, you know your family got kids, right, you have a, you know I have kids, but they're both grown.
Speaker 2:They both live in Chicago, so I'll see them next week. They're both doing very, very well. I am divorced, so that was part of the the carnage from being on tour all the time. But having said that, super happy here, I mean I have my studio here. During COVID I said didn't we do?
Speaker 1:a thing, we did a thing together. We did. We did a L or a, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the song? Ain't Nobody, ain't Nobody, yeah. That's the stuff that we got to do.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, I had said to myself I'm going to try and come out of this thing better than when I went into it. And so, after I cleaned my garage a thousand times and straightened up the house a million times, I did some. I did a lot of practicing. I did a ton of studio work in my studio Right, a ton of it, because I guess everybody had songs that they wanted to record but they couldn't because they were all working or what, for whatever reason, and people just started sending files, and so I worked a lot here in the studio. I did some writing.
Speaker 2:We started a band that's no longer, but we started a salsa band that was I'm pretty proud of and did some singing on that as well and some arranging. And oh right, you sing too, you do. The project came out amazing, but it didn't survive. But but but a lot of great stuff happened, and so that's the kind of stuff that you can do when you are alone, when you know I hate this, to be like that, but it is when you want to get to certain levels. You have to, you have to kind of be, and you got to be alone, you have to be. You know, that was Whatever you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was some. There were some positives to COVID man and that was one of them. You know, I think that the studio thing was kind of going in that direction before COVID, like where nobody wanted to leave their own Studio and then you had no choice right, yeah, yeah now everybody's nobody comes. You know, I send my my files out, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm southern out, you know.
Speaker 2:I was lucky in that 20 something years ago, barry Denali and who's the trumpet player with with Bruce and I went to college with him. I went to Berkeley with Barry couple gigs at Barry's forever you did.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, we did a bunch of stuff together, yeah, a lot of studio stuff back in the day. But he's the one that told me that eventually the studios were gonna be shutting down to to get a computer and get your own studio together, and that was 20 something years ago, yep, yep, and thank God I listened to him because I've really done well with, especially in the salsa world, where a lot of guys are from South America, columbia, or they're in Venezuela or wherever, and they'll send me their tracks and I'll play. And you know, on salsa music at all, there's no guitar, it's all bones. There's three bone, three tracks of bones on every you know on on most of those songs, and so I get to record myself three times. You know, first, second and third bone I get to free.
Speaker 1:You run your own house. You can like you know we're in my underwear. All right, or you can, or you can punch in if you don't like it, oh yeah, yeah, fix everybody.
Speaker 1:It's about 20 years ago. Yeah, it was about 20 years ago that Joel played it with this. I forget what. The band was called Hemispheres. And they called hemispheres because nobody played Novel. It was novel. Back then he said check this out, man, this guy's in Australia and this guy's in the city and this guy's in New Zealand and this guy's in New Jersey, and we played together and it's, you know, and you listen, I listen. I was like wow, that's nobody played, it's unbelievable. Now, that's all we do. It's like we do the band that doesn't play together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's intensive. You don't know how to. If you don't know how to use logic or pro tools, your toast yeah.
Speaker 1:How do we?
Speaker 2:know each other. John, how do um?
Speaker 1:Was it through the funk band? Funk band, I think yeah, but then it was a couple of gigs I that I saw you at Um. I went to see billy with, yes, uh, david anison was playing right, right, uh, beluchi was playing drums. I saw you that gig, right, it was a couple, a couple of gigs I saw you at, and then it was the bill, the billy, heller pot and I guess, the um, the thing we did During covid with pan the list, that thing, right, we played on. So it's been like you know, the same kind of circuit locally here. I guess I don't know. I mean we've done a club date with you. I don't even do, I don't, I don't know I will play, I mean chances are. I remember seeing rick's band with you. I walked, it was like a, probably the townhouse where I walked in, I think matt miller was playing drums, that's all right.
Speaker 2:Uh, could have been. He might have been subbing all the jobs, because usually it was either greg pascucci or, later on, it was rich Capiteli, oh richie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so maybe it was richie, I don't remember. But I happen to walk in because you guys were playing um sledgehammer. Oh yeah and I could hear it three rooms down.
Speaker 2:We worked a lot with that band. I mean he, we get doing five weddings every weekend, yep.
Speaker 1:I was. I was doing the same with Gus and I was doing five a weekend.
Speaker 2:You know, even in december he did all the corporate parties all the court back back then right all the businesses, their parties and the only difference was that for me?
Speaker 1:I had to get up in the morning, go to work on monday morning, all my well, everybody else in the band is sitting around waiting to get paid and I was like I need to get my money and get out of here me. And I can't and they're like what's the problem? You know like yeah, you guys are all sleeping tomorrow, whatever, and I have to go to work and I did that for 32 ron, did it too ron, just for tart mind fox.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a million gigs.
Speaker 1:And and he finally retired also good for you guys.
Speaker 2:I was trying to see if I can, you know when, when cove it happened, I was like man, maybe I should try and check out and see if I can teach, you know, do some college stuff. But I didn't have the. Uh, you know, I left berkeley after two, some, after Four, three semester, the four semesters, three semesters. I left and I went on tour.
Speaker 1:So I never got. I would think that a college or how you're just on your credentials, just on your playing credential- that would have been a nice, but it didn't work out that way. You know, down the road, man, it could be that could be something I would love to I I would love to for sure.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's another thing too. I wrote a book while I was in cove. It Really yeah Well, we were in the lack that. I wrote a book on flexibility for trombone trumpet.
Speaker 1:Oh you kidding me yeah, get it something elated. I mean, I'll put it in the show notes. Oh, cool, cool, that's cool. So it's for four trombone players, or it's for trombone players and trumpet players.
Speaker 2:Yeah, flexibility. It's kind of like I sent my bone to Eric client today to get overhauled, so I have one back here, but the mouthpiece is not on it. But it's just basically, you know, moving around the horn without, without the slide.
Speaker 1:You know you're using your lips.
Speaker 2:You're just using your lips and that's, that's a big part of you know, like, uh, that's a bit, it's a big part of a brass players.
Speaker 1:Right, see, I don't want a brass player. It's supposed to be a drummer podcast.
Speaker 2:All right, we'll talk paradiddles.
Speaker 1:I'm in over my head with this no.
Speaker 1:So that's what's what's cool about like just trying to talk about this stuff is like the fact that this is this core group of musicians that all kind of know each other, like you and I'm, you know, billy, every all these people, we know each other and everybody has a different story that led to them to where they are right now. Right, and a lot and a lot of it's like like they're all success success stories, right. I mean everybody's, you know, achieved all this, this stuff, you know.
Speaker 2:Based on each other. And when, when I get asked how do you get these gigs I think you might even ask me now the answer that I have that I usually say is For me is making the guy to my left and the guy to my right happy. Those guys are happy. Then those are my calling cards, right? I mean, of course, you have to make everybody in the band happy, right, the drummer has to go.
Speaker 2:Wow, I really dig how the bone player plays. You know, if I play a solo, because you're not really gonna hear me if I'm playing in the section but the trumpet playing, the sax player, if I'm playing out of tune, if I'm playing out of time, they're not gonna ever hire me. So that's a big reason why I got into bruce right, because barry denilion Is the guy you know. I played with him a million times. So when, when a spot came up, he said well, you got to get Ozzy and the same with a lot of. That's how everybody has to get their work. It's not through it's very rarely that it's through our instagram or through facebook oh yeah, even your website it's. It really happens through each other. It really happens in the musicianship. You have to be on time and you got to play and people go around that way.
Speaker 1:I think that's what separates you got like your level of musicianship from that. That is what separates you, you know, you know, from others. Is that it exactly? What you just said is that you're playing. You're playing for the band, right? You play in a section. You're playing in a horn section. You like being on a team, right? You know it's everybody's got their part and they're playing what they're supposed to play to make everybody else Feel like they're together, right? I mean, that's that is what makes you guys sound. People go by people and listen and and even the people who are novices, who are not, you know, musicians, they can decipher, I think people can when they go to hear who in sections like the ones you play in, they can decipher. That you know. But you know, rather than going to, like the local bar, there's mistakes or whatever.
Speaker 2:Guys are drunk, I don't know, but you know, but, but it's true because we used to call the. We used to call the I'm after the first, We'd come back the second set. We'd be drinking. It wouldn't sound.
Speaker 1:I don't think it sounded bad, but we would say we're the drunk philharmonic no no, so called the drunk philharmonic, I'm not even sure, yeah, but but I'm glad you said that because I that's a real sticking point for me is that is is guys who were who play Like my whole thing is playing for the rhythm section and I'm supposed to be a team player in in some way shape or form, and I had to be listening to the what the bass players play on a guitar player and you know that that makes it a cohesive sounding thing.
Speaker 2:You know, like horn players and and if you overplay, then that gets tagged on to you, right? Oh yeah, john simulis a great drummer, but he overplays. So now, if it's between you and somebody else, you don't even know this. This is going on somewhere else. We need a drummer for whatever, and you know, oh, this guy.
Speaker 2:So this guy does that, you know. Or this guy he knew he comes and he drives you freaking crazy because all he does is practices, his you know arpeggios. Instead of warming up he's, he's noodling constantly. He's driving you crazy. Don't call that guy little shit like that. You won't get the gig either. I know you could be the greatest player, but if you're annoying as fuck, you're not gonna get hired.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's what makes that, that's what separates you guys from you know. That's what. That's what you're level up, right, I mean that's gotta be helpful. Yeah, yeah that's a good to package deal. You can't be an asshole. Play great and be an asshole.
Speaker 2:You gotta know a lot of great players and their assholes and they're not working there you go, man, there you go.
Speaker 1:and those are the guys are wondering why am I getting cold?
Speaker 2:you know, I'm so great You're always angry Left once in a while you get the gig, I promise. Yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. But like I always say, man, you if you got it, you got to make the guys around you happy, if not there, because they're your calling cards.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know with me, if, if somebody comes to me and says, hey, you know we need a trumpet player, well, the guy that makes me comfortable that I play with that's, you know, it's on my right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna recommend him right, right. So that's what happens, that's how it happens on the bandstand and that's how it happens. That's the whole thing in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:Cool, and if you can hang together too after the gig, that's.
Speaker 2:That's also you gotta be a good hang be social.
Speaker 1:You know, so cool man that was, that was good shit, man. I really appreciate you. You're doing this with me. Of course, I think it's gonna be, you know, helpful to Do some trombone players. No, it's, it's. It's almost like incidental that you that that what the instrument is. It's like that. It's like the message you know what I mean of what what you're trying to put out there, like how you get where you're supposed to be, happens in a certain way, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to stick it out too. Like we said at the beginning, you got to stick it out, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good things will happen, but but yeah, all right so cool man, we're coming up on the hour here and it's gonna, it's gonna cut me off. So I'm gonna just say thanks to Ozzie Mendes and, uh, you know, look for him If you go see Bruce Springsteen, yeah. I'm gonna put Ozzie's phone number in the show notes so you can call him directly.
Speaker 2:I am not ticket master.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 2:John, thanks so much. Good luck with this. This podcast is amazing and thank you to everybody's listening and I hope we shed a little bit of light on On musicians, and not trombone, but musicians and John musicians.
Speaker 1:All right man, all right brother, thank you, thank you.