on DRUMS, with John Simeone
This is a local Long Island Podcast given by a veteran drummer on the Long Island music scene. We have a variety of local professional musicians as participants. We joke, give insights and share stories about our over 4 decades of experience in the music profession.
on DRUMS, with John Simeone
From Backyards to Big Stages: Brian Dunne's Drumming Legacy
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Ever dreamed of jamming with some of the music industry’s most celebrated icons? Picture yourself backing up the likes of Chaka Khan and Patty LaBelle? Brian Dunne, a renowned drummer, is living that dream, and he's here to share his incredible journey. As he walks us through his early days of jamming with his brother to his experiences with world-famous artists, Brian’s tale is a testament to the power of dedication, practice, and an unwavering passion for music.
Navigating the unpredictable music industry is no easy feat. Imagine waiting on tenterhooks to find out if you'd be called back for another gig or dealing with overzealous fans. When we shift gears and delve into Brian’s career progression and his experiences in the Long Island drum scene, it’s clear that camaraderie and support can make all the difference. His candid tales reveal the exciting and sometimes challenging life of a professional drummer and the importance of friendship within the industry.
In an industry steeped in tradition but continually evolving, understanding the fundamentals of drumming and their application to different musical genres is key. Brian sheds light on the evolution of drumming, the rise of modern drummers, and the impact of technology on the music industry. Whether you are a seasoned drummer seeking inspiration or a newbie fascinated by the world of drumming, this conversation with Brian Dunn will leave you with newfound insights and a renewed passion for your craft.
All right, welcome to episode. I think this is episode 13,. I'm not sure of On Drums. My name is John Simione. Today I have Brian Dunn, who's a drummer. I'm used to like not having drummers here. It should be called on whatever you play this podcast. So how are you doing Brian? I'm good, all right. I just before. I don't normally do this, but Brian has a crazy resume, so I'm just going to read some of the people that he's been affiliated with. So I'm just going to start from what I highlighted here. So, average white band Patty Austin, chuck Loeb, alana Davis I recall well Ariana Grande, special Effects, jeff Lorber, michael Franks, willie Cologne, bob James, jay Beckonstein, dave Samuels, corey Glover, kiley Manucci, paul Jackson, jr. Right, and that's a lot. That's not even all of them right. And then you did some backing for Patty LaBelle, chaka Khan and Vogue Sting, michael Brecker, randy Brecker, bob James, jessica Simpson, bb Winans, and there's way more right.
Speaker 2You're like a busy fucking guy man, how do you? A lot of that, but a lot of that stuff is is scenarios where I'm a house drummer for an award ceremony, you know where?
Speaker 1where Chaka's being or.
Speaker 2Patty LaBelle's being honored, and then we play a couple of songs with that artist and it's that kind of thing.
Speaker 1So it's, it's you know, but they're still like looking back on this fucking guy's killing it back there.
Speaker 2Right, I mean they are yeah.
Speaker 1They definitely are Right. I mean, that's, that's a long resume, right? And how old are you? I'm just turned 53. 53, see, yeah, all right. So I did meet you then when you were. Is it possible, 14, 15?
Speaker 2You were okay, Let me just tell the story.
Speaker 1Okay, this, this is how I met Brian Dunn. I met him at his brother's wedding Kevin Dunn, who's also a drummer, and I have questions about that and our friend, john Visconti, introduced me to Kevin. Kevin, who was, was the groom and he he happened to be, brian happened to be walking up and John said to me this is Kevin, kevin Dunn, he's a really good drummer man. He's, you know, he's this, he's that, and he was, and, as he was saying to Brian walked up behind him and he said but this guy is killing drummer man. He was like, you know, like four foot two or something. I was like what are you kidding? And then he, then you sat in and, as he was right, he was right. So that's, that's how I met you.
Speaker 1Yeah, so, so so just the thing was cause I want to talk about Kevin for a second. Two drummers in one house, right, three, Three. My brother John too, oh my God, yeah, yeah, how, how did that work?
Speaker 2man, there was, always there was. I mean in the beginning there was two drum sets set up in the basement, right In the basement. Yeah, the basement helps you know, but our parents were amazing. You know, the racket was insane. No headphones either, by the way.
Speaker 1Everything was played to loud speakers, so imagine how loud the stereo has to be for young people to be smashing, and the music is leaving louder they must have been saints man, your parents, and let me ask you this, cause I'm going to get right back to that but this is a story I heard from Tim Lawless. You know Tim Lawless, right, so he just passed away, you know, but, tim, he always told this story about you guys, you and Kevin. Um, and and correct me if I'm wrong, this is the story. I'm nervous. He said. He said the the funniest story I've ever heard about you guys was your one of your parents. I think your dad said to Kevin Kevin, do me a favor, go downstairs and check on Brian, because he's been playing the same thing over and over again. I think it's wrong. I don't know if that happened but that would be that yeah.
Speaker 1I was doing that. Kevin told Timmy this story.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, no, I was one to do that. Yeah, I would go down.
Speaker 1Right. So you actually put put the time in when you were a kid, right.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean I put more time in. When I was just around I was leaving high school, I didn't. I wasn't that serious before that cause a lot of stuff came. I shouldn't say it came easy, but like when I was in sixth grade I was putting on the Rush Hemispheres record and practicing to that stuff and I didn't know any better and I had because I had Kevin. You know he got my hands together at relatively early age. I could read music, but his thing was always just dropped the needle on the record and usually ears Right. So I would do that. But it wasn't until I was a senior in high school that I then I started. Then I went crazy with practicing, especially my first couple of years in college.
Speaker 1So that's so. Was that at that point you knew you were going to do this right?
Speaker 2I guess I there was no plan and I never actually made a conscious decision to say I'm going to make a living playing drums.
Speaker 1Um, I just yeah, but you had to know that you were like you had something going on that's other people didn't right.
Speaker 2I think, yeah, I mean, I think when I was in high school it seemed as though I could, you know, I could play, but, like I said, I still wasn't really crazy about practicing.
Speaker 1It took?
Speaker 2you know what it took for me? It took me getting my my butt being kicked by going into the city and seeing, uh, zach Danziger play, actually when I was a senior in high school. Wait, zach, he didn't need to.
Speaker 1He did the Michelle Camillo at that point. After Joel, after Joel, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2Probably in it, probably in and around that time he's like a red-haired guy or something.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, and he's about the same age as me. So imagine imagine like I knew about Joel and Dave, of course, right, I, how do you know who? Who? Someone like Zach, especially when I was 16, he was the same age as me, but I live out in the suburbs of Long Island, so I come into the city and my brothers are like let's go see Michelle Camillo, and we go to see this, this band at McKels. And here's McKels, right, and here's a kid that's like me, only infinitely better. So when I saw that, I was like, oh my God, that's a, it's a turning point, because it's like does it, does it inspire you to get better? Or do you say, oh my God, this is like another level.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And cause he wasn't a great. He wasn't. He wasn't a great player for a 16 year old, he was just simply a great player. So that's it took that to make me say whoa.
Speaker 1To get your you mean to get your ass kicked out? Yeah, it's funny. This is how. This is how sheltered and behind I was. I saw Michelle with with Joel and Anthony Jackson and Joel he looked you know New York, upstate, whatever, wherever he was and he'd say come to my house, just sleep over and I'm doing a gig with Michelle Camille. I'm like who the fuck is Michelle? I don't know if that is he says, but Anthony Jackson is playing and knew that it was. He said I get there at McKels and I I'm. It's. At that point I realized Michelle is a man. I'm like where's Michelle? Where's?
Speaker 2this kid Michelle.
Speaker 1I didn't even dawn on me. Michelle was a guy. You know that seriously. And speaking about getting your ass kicked, that happened to me Like I was the best and you know, when I was a senior in high school, being a drummer kept me from like getting beat up because I was like the best drummer in high school and that was the thing that kept me alive. And I went from the best drummer in high school to the absolute shittiest drummer in in Connecticut.
Speaker 1When I went to school Cause like Joel was there, dave was there, I didn't even I went to the first the audition for the bands, for the jazz band, I didn't even walk into the room. I looked through the little window. Dave was playing. It was about a four or five drummers behind him. Joel was one of them and I was like there's no way. I just walked back to my room, I didn't even audition. And then the second semester I was in the B band with Joel. So it was just three of us. It was just Dave in the A band and me and Joel in the B band. So I guess I in hindsight I should have, but I just got too scared. I said fucking guys are intimidating, I mean you think about it.
Career Progression and Camaraderie Among Drummers
Speaker 1It's like Dave Wuckel. You don't even. He's not even Dave Wuckel at that point. He is, but he was playing like that then. Sure, you know, like crazy. Anyway, getting back to you, man. So so the reason why I do this podcast is is because I think that the general public like looks at people like you and whatever people big who play big venues, and they just like how did they get that gig? You know, like, how did that happen? And it's not about you. You don't really get that gig. You get the million gigs before that gig, right. So so how did it happen for you?
Speaker 2Um, I don't man, I don't it, just just uh, you started playing locally, I guess Right. I played locally. I again my brother's you know my brother Kevin would would had the guts to just the confidence to put me on gigs, to get me to sub, talk people and saying, use my brother and to sub for him. And so club dates were first for me. That was but I was doing. I was doing club dates when I was 14, 15. My father was driving me on the weekends.
Speaker 1Yeah, my dad too.
Speaker 2So, but it's a good, it was a good, uh it's. It's good because it grounds you. It makes you realize, like in real life, you have, you have to play, you have to create, you got to think on your feet.
Speaker 1Yeah, especially on a club date. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, and you're the, you have to hold it down. I mean, it's a good lesson right out of the gate in real life, like you need to be if you're going to be the drummer. There's people counting on you, right, um? I mean, unless, obviously, this is music that's not conversational, straight ahead, right, but, but generally speaking, backbeat oriented music. You have to hold that thing down, and that seems to be changing nowadays too.
Speaker 2I'm sure we'll get there, We'll get to that but but yeah, club dates, and then in the club date world there's so many great players that do it and they're in and out, and then you just start meeting people. So I met Dave Mann that way, um, and and I met, you know, just it kind of started with him, I guess, you know, and and then you meet different kinds of people though too. So I met, I'm, you know, an important person for me was Ted Kumpel.
Speaker 1Oh, Ted, he's great yeah.
Speaker 2And and you know, Ted did club dates but, like Ted was wasn't living in that world, right, you know, and he was a, he's super creative and and he was tied into the whole other group of musicians that I would never have known living where I lived, right. So because of an open mic that I went to, he called me shortly after.
Speaker 2And then next thing I know I'm playing with Tony Shear and Andy Middleton, with Nome St, with Ted's band, oh yeah, um. And when you play with a band like that, you know you play in some little East village club and now you're meeting other musicians that exist in that world. So you wind up just living in all these different pockets of players.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2And it just one thing keeps leading to another.
Speaker 1So what you're describing is like part of what I what, because this is what I think, and then people take this wrong when I say it, but I say it all the time. Long Island drummers, I want to say they're like their own thing. You know, almost like separate, like you. You have to break out of that, right, I mean because you know long, I don't know this is the long, like the. Nowhere else is there a long. You know there's no Idaho drum center. You know there's long islands rum center where guys go.
Speaker 1I hate me. I love the store, I love Jerry, that I buy stuff there. But sometimes I go in there and get trapped by some other drummer who wants to talk about what stick size you use and I, you know, and I'm I just I never could do that. You know I, I just again, I don't. I always thought there was like a long island drummer mentality and then like a real drummer and the guys who crossed over like yourself, you know who like started here and that was a helpful thing, and then realize that there's other stuff beyond where you know where we are.
Speaker 2I mean, I guess the with that whole, that whole scenario, there's a camaraderie that I guess drummers have. So that's, that's what's good. But you need. You can't just live there. You got to constantly be.
Speaker 1You have a lot of drummer friends.
Speaker 2I don't, I don't really have I mean I kind of do, but I one thing I've never gotten a lot of is gigs from drummers, and that's something that my brother, my brother, because who wants to put you on a gig?
Speaker 1cause then nobody's going to want the like a. You suffer me, then they're not going to call me anymore.
Speaker 2I mean to me there's some truth to that man.
Speaker 1I mean there's, well, there's there's a?
Speaker 2yeah, I think there are. There's the type of player that will wants to call a sub. That's good enough for the gig, but not better than them Exactly but then I feel like, I feel like how would rather get someone who's really great, because you're really great.
Speaker 1You know what I mean. You're all you'll by yourself a great drummer. You know what I mean. Like who's going to be playing better than you? Really, I mean, think about it, Ah well.
Speaker 2I guess I have a different perspective.
Speaker 1I just lost my train of thought because of my phone, right. This happens to me all the time, like I subbed out a gig and then it was wait. Like you know the gig, I know what that is supposed to be on the gig and I'm not. And I wait the next day if anybody calls me. If nobody calls me, that means the drummer was good. And if I get the call, first thing is like oh man, we missed you last night. That means all right, I got the right guy because they want me to come back, so I would never. I'm like I'm gonna send Brian none on the gig. Oh yeah, no problem, don't worry about it, man, you're good. And then nobody would ever like want to play with me again.
Speaker 1You know, it's I know, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but that's part of it, that's part of what, probably what you experience. You know you're a different kind of a brand or breed at this point. Anyway, right.
Speaker 1Yeah, I know you're a modest guy, I appreciate that, yeah, I mean, but you are, you are, you know, and I have to tell you honestly there's a lot of drummers I hate. I mean I don't really like a lot of drummers. I can't name. You know certain guys who I listen to, but you know you're one of the guys I like.
Speaker 1You know which is which is an extreme compliment, cause I usually listen to guys and like, oh my God, please just stop, stop. You know, part of my gripe is like I think maybe it's cause I'm weak at this, like my weak suit is soloing. And then I think there are a lot of guys on Long Island who's too. That's what their strong suit is and that's what they do. They just solo, which is a weird thing for a drummer to concentrate on soloing before you actually get your your grooves down and your other stuff. I think it should be like a that should be the kind of the last thing you know. Yeah, I mean, you should be able to do everything Honestly, but there are some guys, I think, who focus on on that more.
Speaker 2Yeah, I guess it's enticing to once you start progressing technically, it's, it's, uh, it feed at that part of your soul gets fed, but it's, it's super dangerous.
Speaker 1I know and I hear it on my own stuff, like I. Sometimes I listen to my like playing back tracks, what I've stuff on playing on. I'm like, oh my God, it sounds like like a drama. Who just like had too much caffeine or something like too many fills, and you know. So I do it, I do it. I'm criticizing myself as well. That's what I'm saying, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2I mean, that's, that's for me, that's the part we were talking about earlier with my again, because I was lucky enough to have brothers that are they're really great musicians, like the whole word music. You're, you're a brother, I know. Your brother, Kevin, is a really great drummer. He's a killing drummer, and and so was my brother John. They just they don't do it for a living.
Speaker 1I didn't know you had a brother, John.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I have four sisters too. I'm the youngest, oh my God. But yeah, but they were. They were all fans of music and like they you know they were I had. I had older people in my life when I was a teenager saying don't worry about having four drummers in the in the corner, high fiving each other for the fill. You just did that, lost the band versus having a bass player or a guitar player turn around like yes.
Speaker 2Yeah, and that's what that's. I had that kind of pummeled into me from when I was a kid and, no matter how much facility I had or was able to achieve or attain, that never left me.
Speaker 1Right, and I'm so with you on that. I mean, like there are times I'm on a gig and it's again it's the bass, usually the bass player who's making eye contact, and there's something going on that works. And then there are times I'm on a gig and the exact opposite is happening and I'm like where am I? Like I'm playing, you know, boom pop, boom pop, and it doesn't sound right, you know, and nobody cares, it doesn't? It's like listening.
Speaker 2That's the worst, that's the biggest culprits to me, If people, even mediocre level musicians, if they just listen right, really listen. I'm not saying don't concentrate on what you're doing, but like almost you know what, Almost don't concentrate on what you do.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Just listen to everything that's going on.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2And you're going to partake in something that's much bigger and then it's going to sound collectively, just automatically, will sound better, the kind of vocabulary you, vocabulary you choose to use. It's dictated by the tune.
Speaker 1Yes, it's simple, yeah, and that and that to me makes perfect sense and I don't know why it's not inherent in every person who's inspired to be a musician's sense. You know what I mean. Like it doesn't admit it. Not, I shouldn't say recently, but I've been on gigs where the tune starts and everybody just is in their own thing. Like it's bizarre, it's like anti music. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1And this is why I get pissed off, because I was trying to explain this to somebody I forget one of the people who did this show. Like I think you probably feel the same way. Like music is almost like your child, right, it's inside of you, right? I mean, it's like you didn't you said this to Joel I remember you guys talking about this.
Hall & Oates
Speaker 1And there was an interview with Weckel and Dom Familaro that I watched like not too long ago, where Dave said you know, I didn't use drums, drums chose me right. So it's personal type thing and I agree with that. And then if you're on a bandstand with somebody who's like slaughtering the tune, it's like somebody hitting your kid in front of you, right, I mean that's how I see it. I mean I know I'm like so over the top with this shit, you know, but but it's that's the way I feel. You know, it's like I want. I want I will play anywhere, I'll fly anywhere and bring my drums and play for free If it's the right thing. You know what I mean. If it's like happening because it's, inspiring yeah.
Speaker 2I mean you're very much like my brother in that regard.
Speaker 1Kevin. Yeah, because Kevin, if, if, if it's, if, all the joy of it's going to get sucked out what's the point of my joy? What's the point.
Speaker 2What am I doing? What is the point? So, yeah, it's, it's, it's soured him because he's a pretty deep musician, yeah, at his core. So it's like, if it's that, if you, if you're going to be miserable, then like, if you love music, then like I'm going to step back now.
Speaker 1Right, right, so it's, and I really should go for anything. I mean, if you're just doing a bar or a wedding, I really feel like it's. You know, I've been in bands like club they, bands where this, the musicians were all great, and then it started. We started to be playing it to him, right, and the stuff starts to go somewhere and you know, people start reacting to each other playing and it's oh, this is starting to go and it's, you know, I feel like a little thing happened and and ultimately the club that leader would turn on go, oh, let's bring it down. Bring it down Meaning stop grooving on this gig. This is wedding. I swear that's happened, man. That has happened on club dates. I've been on too many club dates. That's the problem. That really is the problem. I'm going to club date it out. I'm kind of glad it's behind me now.
Speaker 2Yeah, so, so dangerous.
Speaker 1Yeah, they are dangerous. They're money makers.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1You know you sell your soul. It's like being in a mafia, but that's kind of weird ends, I think you know, for club dates. So tell me about, tell me about you You're doing. You're doing Daryl Hall now, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's really Hall of Notes, but, but lately, it's. John Oates doing it. Yeah, I mean we haven't done an actual Hall of Notes gig in over a year, but like those guys have two separate careers.
Speaker 1Do they?
Speaker 2They always have to, they always have. I mean, if you, if you look, actually look at their records, it never says Hall of Notes, it says Daryl Hall and John Oates, for a reason, cause even in the seventies they were completely two separate entities. That's interesting. That would come together to make these records. Yeah, cause John has John's like a constantly writing songs and same thing with Daryl. So but now it just so happens that that John's doing his own thing, daryl's doing his own thing and Daryl's basically using the uses the same band Right, Luckily for us.
Speaker 1So what's the the Daryl's house thing?
Speaker 2That's just a venue, right, well, now it's a venue, but it it and it's still a show. We have six episodes. We just did, we didn't just do, but they're about to be released. But no, it used. It started out as a TV show. That was. It was a webcast actually.
Speaker 1That was done in his house and then his actual house, his actual house, yeah.
Speaker 2And for I don't know I think maybe for seven or eight years it was done in his house. Then he sold the house, oh Right, Then he bought the. He bought a club that used to be called the town crier and now he calls it live from Daryl's house. It's as a. It's a restaurant and live music venue, and it happens to be where we record the TV show ever since.
Speaker 1Okay, you know what I remember seeing you at, literally at his house. I remember that now it was like a great room or something with there was a bunch of equipment in one big room Right. So how did you get that particular gig?
Speaker 2Um, mostly because of it's a few things, but I used to play with the average white band and I and and um. So average white band was before.
Speaker 1Before.
Speaker 2Yeah, before, and average white band was around 2000. And, uh, and I was there for maybe almost six years, but at that point we opened for Hall of Notes and T-Bone Walk, who was the MD and bass player for Hall of Notes, um, I hung with him the night we opened for them and he sat right behind. He watched the whole set and I knew that he liked me, right, like and and uh, and so sometime went, went on and I was always aware of T-Bone just being a New Yorker and, um, he called me up one day and he's like Sean, sean Pelton couldn't make a uh.
Speaker 2Sean Pelton was the drummer for live from Daryl's house. Everybody else in the Hall of Notes band is that band, except for the drummer at the time, because he lived in, I think, uh, portland or something. So Sean's a New York guy, he's T-Bone's guy, so it just made sense and, um, so he couldn't make a taping, t-bone called me and I did it and I saw, I saw I subbed and um, which was awesome that he remembered me.
Speaker 2And as a bass player. That got me a gig, not a drummer. And uh, he, uh, it went well. So I was fresh in Daryl's mind, so I was. I became the sub for the TV show only, and then shortly thereafter the drummer for Hall and Oates couldn't make a run or something, two week run or something. And I was fresh in his mind and I wanted to subbing on Hall and Oates and then I knew that they dug me there and then that turned into me being the sub for both gigs the TV show and the Hall and Oates touring band Okay.
Speaker 2And then some time went by, and then they just offered me both.
Speaker 1So see that this is my point exactly right. Even Sean Pelton gets you and he's like you take the gig.
Speaker 2I got. I will say this, and it's important he, darrell, loves the way Sean plays, as we all do. He's great. And what happened with that was once I was the Hall and Oates drummer. It put Darrell in a really in my opinion anyway a really tough place because in his mind, life in Darrell's House is a completely separate entity, right? But it just so happens that everybody in the Hall and Oates band happens to be in that in there right.
Speaker 2So that makes it so that how can I not have Brian be the drummer for the thing? But the flip side of that is well, sean has nothing to do with Hall and Oates and he's the original drummer for Life in Darrell's House. How can I take it away from him? So what he did was he gave us both the gig and we shared Okay, if there were eight, if there were eight artists coming, sean would do four, I would do four, okay.
Speaker 1That's cool.
Speaker 2And then over time, it just eventually just started to make more sense to just give it to me.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2But it had nothing to do with this Right.
Speaker 1Oh no, no, it had something to do with drumming Right. I mean it had to. I don't think so.
Speaker 2I think it was just I think it just made more sense since I'm in the band. I'm not saying I don't deserve to be there, but I always think.
Speaker 1I always say I always think, like people who have their their act together, shit together, musically, would be the ones to do what you're saying, which is like this, makes me feel good and this is why this guy should be here, not because he's like the appropriate sub, because he's been subbing. You know what I mean. Like like you know it's. It's always like. To me it's like the singer who turns around and goes that was that felt good. You know like I get it. Not. You know that. It's like a feel thing, like you said right, so you're playing, made that band feel, or Darrell Hall feel right, right, I mean it's it because it does sound. It sounds like sounds right to me. You know it's the band. The band is great, yeah.
Speaker 2Everybody's such a pro man, everybody is. Uh, that helps. Everybody can do so much more, yeah, and if you go to see the, if you see the band play, you would think like you know you watch. You watch the guitar player, shane Terrio, and you're like you think you could think you'd be wrong. But you could think like that's his shit, that style of music, that's it and it's like man, there's so many layers of that on you.
Speaker 2There's so much stuff that guy can do and which is makes him even better because he plays the gig he's on.
Speaker 1Right, and that's another thing.
Speaker 2And same thing with the bass player and the everybody in the band.
Speaker 1It's just, you know. Well, those are the great guys or the guys who play for the gig. Someone like like John Robinson, you know he, just what is it about him?
Speaker 2And he's like on everything and he's, you know, he's not like, uh, you know, flashy drummer, he just sounds right, you know it's just guys got that thing, you know I think you can tell when someone it's it's well, it's like the difference between someone who decides I'm going to play less fills, so now I'm a pocket drummer, and it's like man. It has almost nothing to do with how many fills you play. Actually, it's like do you really mean it when you're playing the body of the tune, exactly Like every measure that goes by? Are you sinking in even harder? You should be exhausted after the first four bars of any song you play Right, because that's how much of yourself you're putting into it. And then you're on your way to being what I would consider a pocket drummer.
Speaker 1You know what I mean.
Speaker 1So it's so see, that whole mentality you're talking about. It's like I think something that's kind of void Island drummers not all. I'm not talking about all the long drummers, if you're listening. I'm just talking about a few of you who are. You know, you know what's going on.
Speaker 1It's like I don't know who I was telling this, but like I hate Facebook, but of course I go on. It's like a car accident. You have to watch it, you have to see it. So. So I swear I love these bands that put their entire act on, like their entire set, in video on Facebook. So what I do is I scroll through and I stop. My stuff's muted, I don't hear anything on my phone. I stop at the, at the video of whoever's playing, and I can just watch for like three seconds and know that this band sucks just by looking at them. And then there were times like I scroll through and it looks like, oh, these guys look like a good and I'm always right.
Speaker 1I turned to buy them. Okay, they are there Good. Oh, yep, they suck. You know, I can just buy. Looking at them and it's bizarre. It's like this thing I've. I could like this talent I have. Now, I know I'm like negative with this shit, but I can't help it. I'm like you know, I'm I'm at the end of my rope, Anyway. So, um, what was I going to ask you? Um, so, the lead up to all this, you, so you just basically on the road with, like I mean, these all these other people, you backed up and, you know, kind of got you pushed in the right direction. Yeah, was it like mostly on the road thing, or you know you.
Recording and Performing in Unique Situations
Speaker 2I mean generally I it most of my living is made from touring, touring. But I've never, I, never, really I. I did most of my touring like right out of the gate, like going out with Alana Davis, you know. We'd go out for literally like a couple of months straight, like I don't do that anymore. I haven't done that in years. I'm in a very unique situation where we never go away from more than you know. Three weeks is max, three weeks, you know.
Speaker 2And and where you're where you're away from home, where I'm away from home, yeah, so, which to me is beautiful? Yeah, I would, I would, I love that.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2I don't want to go away for four months and come home for 10 days and go away for another six months.
Speaker 1It's hard to be married and do that, yeah, and have a kid.
Speaker 2It's like no, no, I mean, if it's life changing money, you have to then consider it. But I mean I'm happy doing this and, like I'm, I'm a fan of too many different kinds of music.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2So I like to be doing different things. I don't want to just do one thing ever, if I can help it.
Speaker 1So that's because because if you do, then that doesn't that kind of pigeon holes you in. And this is what I recall from I hate going back to club dates but like I always was just like doing club dates for money and what happens is every band I was in was crazy busy, like 120 a year every, every band since I'm 16, and what happens is nobody calls you anymore because I go. Well, he's tied up with that, you know, and that it could be. I mean the same idea, right?
Speaker 1So I can't you know can't call Brian because he's, he's, he's out with whoever all the time.
Speaker 2People think when you're on the road. Yeah, I mean, but I keep the. I always. I've always tried to grind. When I'm home, I try to operate as if I don't like this gig. I can lose it tomorrow, and I can like my phone was flashing. I could have lost my gig.
Speaker 1Oh sorry, no, who knows right.
Speaker 2So to me, I'm still going to play in clubs. I don't care, and I'm going to play in clubs because I like. First of all, I like playing in clubs. I hate huge PA systems and giant arenas Like.
Speaker 1I'm like clubs. I want to hear.
Speaker 2I want to hear the. I want to hear someone's bass amp and the guitar amp knocking my head off. I'm okay with that, but and I feel like I have control over a room when I'm not the, you know, controlled by a sound man.
Speaker 1You know what I?
Speaker 2mean so, um, and I like the intimacy of people, like being like this, you know, so it's, it's a yeah, I mean, but I mean the recording thing has been something I've always wanted to do, a lot Right, and that's why that's and I have, like this is a great setup I have a set up in your house.
Speaker 1It sounds great. Also, is that your basement? It's my basement.
Speaker 2Yeah, and the whole social media thing is like Again, I think I'm old enough, I think we're close enough in age to I think I can say this Like there's a certain age group where this whole thing feels weird to people like us. Yeah, and I think it has to do with what, the way and when we were brought up as part of it. Um, and For younger people, I can't, you can't fault them, because it's this is what they're growing up in, so I can't say it's good or bad, it's just, it is what it is and I can't blame them for taking partaking in it. But for me, I I was like when, around pandemic, um, I had been doing remote drum sessions I'm doing it for 18 years now, so I was doing it way before pandemic and and and that's because of chuck lope, um, and thank god he was, he got me into this whole thing. But having said that, during the pandemic, I was like I see all this posting going on and I'm like does anybody actually make money with this right?
Speaker 2Yeah and I decided as in it, literally as an experiment. I'm like I'm gonna try to do this, I'm gonna see if this can help my recording situation. I'm not gonna put, I'm not gonna use software that Takes the drums away from from a tune and play a drum solo over over a funk tune. We're not gonna do that Right, but I am gonna. I'm gonna if I have a session that's, I think, is worthy of putting it out there, and and and the artist is okay with an actual session, with people, an actual session.
Speaker 2I've never put a single thing on there that's not an actual session, right and, and sometimes that's hard, it's hard to do right, I know, especially for a drummer. Yeah, so so for me, and you got, and sometimes you do, great stuff that the artist is like well, I don't want anybody to hear this yet.
Speaker 1Yeah right.
Speaker 2So then, and you have to honor that right. But at the end of the day, I tried it and it actually, for me, a hundred percent works. Yeah, well, because it sounds, and the workflow was like awesome, yeah, but I'm not gonna lie to this day when I when I take that phone, by the way I some people will record themselves doing the session live right and use that footage. I don't do that. I will do the session. Get this thing accepted.
Speaker 1Oh, so you're not one, so you're not putting this. You record. You do the video after the fact.
Speaker 2I'll go back and I'll do another take. Yeah and it's just gonna be you know, 16 bars or something, because it's not, because I feel like I don't like, unless, of course, part of the part of what I'm being paid for is to video myself, and I've done that too right.
Speaker 1But to me, the artist deserves my my concentration to be on their music, not on what I look like when I'm doing it so that I can use it on social media.
Speaker 2That's insane to me so I go back After they have they. They have their stuff and it's been accepted. Then I'll show the people what I'm doing. I guess right, and even that is like vomit inducing to me. I feel so awkward doing it, but at least it works right.
Speaker 1So you, you do the set, the actual session, no video, and you maybe do punch-ins or whatever. You fix some stuff if you have to, and they send it off to the artist and then you redo it for the video sake. Yeah, after the fact.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a great idea, that's a really good idea because I feel like then they're getting Actually getting all of me right, whatever that is, and and then I can still you, I can still utilize this session as something to help me To further my little business venture, right.
Speaker 1Well, I'm glad that's working out for you, man.
Speaker 2It really has, yeah.
Speaker 1I mean I did a couple of them over the pandemic that we're just messing around with Billy Heller and, you know, sam powell, bass player.
Speaker 2I know the name he's a great bass player.
Speaker 1We did a thing, we did a trio me, him and Tom bows. Nice, and sam played everything except drums. He's like a freak, he just plays every day, man.
Speaker 1You know he's playing guitar, he's playing bass, he's playing keyboard. I think he's like, he's crazy. I mean, he really is a talented guy but like that was that was just born out of the pandemic to play. Yeah, you know, that was the only way we played. You know I'm that's. I don't remember who was telling me that. Oh, was Joel like, uh, like everything I canceled, you know. So, every you know he actually this I don't know if I should tell us, but it doesn't matter Um, he was telling me he was at a closing for buying his new house in 2019 and, as he's signing the house papers, the phone is going off like gig canceled, gig canceled. And then happened everybody, yeah, everybody was just, I mean, a lot of my friends Did it do his full time and they had to work. You know, yeah, yeah. So I mean that was. It was a tough time for musicians, man.
Speaker 2Yeah, it was, it was. I was very fortunate in that I had those the sessions coming in, but I had you know, because of hauling oats, it was we, we were, they were paying into Uh, unemployment. So I was getting unemployment like full unemployment.
Speaker 1Oh, that's, if I had a nine to five job.
Speaker 2That's cool. You know what I mean. They just do everything right. Yeah they're awesome that you're lucky with that man.
Speaker 1Yes, so I mean you guys. So your stuff was canceled. Also everything, everything was canceled, right?
Speaker 2Everything was canceled and then here's another thing where I was happened to be lucky. They're a legacy act. They're huge right. So when, when it looked like stuff was going to come back, who do you think promoters are going to Put out the first?
Speaker 1them first.
Speaker 2They're not going to put up startup acts, they're going to put up the guaranteed commodity that people have money to pay to see those particular shows. So you know, soon, as people started to come back, we were, we were one of the bands that get to jump right back into work.
Speaker 1That's, that's great. That worked out for you like that. That's, that's very cool. So what, um, is he doing? He's not. You'd say he's not doing big venues right now, or he's sort of doing big venues.
Speaker 2We do. We do anywhere from like 1500 to I don't know 5000. I mean we just did. We did Hyde Park in in England with Billy Joel, 65,000 people 65,000.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's a lot of people.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, it's crazy, that's great.
Speaker 1That's, that's great man what's? What's that like playing for 65,000 people? I'd rather play in a club.
Speaker 2But it's cool. Yeah, it's cool, yeah, it is, it is. I mean when you yeah, when, but when, when I'm, it's not. It's not like you know what it is. We're not lead singers, right?
Speaker 1I'm not in the front of the stage.
Speaker 2So I'm just kind of still no matter what's out there, I'm still worried about the guys around me, right?
Speaker 1so it's, I'm immune to that, yeah see that's, that's very cool, that you can do that, man. A lot of guys get see I, this is what I get under my skin also. These guys get caught up in themselves. You know, like it's they become whatever. They start to think more of themselves. You know, I mean, I mean we're all just humans, right? I mean it's, it's the weirdest thing, man, that that there is.
Impersonators and the Impact of Technology
Speaker 1You know it's like it's, it's I have to say it's like an ego thing, I guess you know I you know, I guess it's cool having people come up to you and say Whatever you know you know and I'm not used to that At all, because club they do, club they say people ignore you. You're like a, you know you're like a wallflower Right, but but since I've been doing clubs, it's different.
Speaker 1It's kind of it's strange to me because you'll play and this is you know you experiences and then people standing on watch you like other drummers, I guess yeah, guys with the zilgen hat on. You know he's 107 Staring at me like he's gonna kill me. You know I swear this happens. And then of course, you try, I try, like I see him staring, and I try to get off the bandstand and he follows me. You know it's like I'm not used to that man, I'm just.
Speaker 1This actually happened to me on a gig and I was like, oh my god, it's guy either loves me or wants to murder me, and I still don't know which it was. But he did attack me. You know, like With. You know like I'm a drummer too and I, you know I play with whatever Woody. Herman I, you know like who knows.
Speaker 2I, you know, I'm like, I just want to go to the bathroom, man. Oh yeah, I mean, it's not used to that dangerous, because some people are coming up and then telling you how wonderful you are Right, which is it's a nice to be on the receiving end of that, but too much of that creates a monster. Yeah, okay, and then the other.
Speaker 1But but you've got it, got you. It seems to me like you've got down in control, like you know you, you understand where that's coming from and you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you don't, you, you know, you know, you don't get like egomaniac.
Speaker 2No, I know too many people that are so great at what they do, so that yeah so you're like a humble guy. I'm worried about my wife and my son like right, of course, it's like it's like yeah.
Speaker 2I'm not worried about any of that, but the other. The flip side of that, though, is sometimes those compliments come and it's like Watch what you believe, because a lot of times, the same guy that's coming up to you to tell you how wonderful you are, he was in the audience scratching his head like Be willed as to why is this guy have this gig? I can do this gig better again.
Speaker 1True, that rings true for a long island. I hate to say it, but it does look. I did a gig. I swear this is the truth. It was, must have been, a, I don't know where. It was some club, I'm not gonna say well club playing drums. And I noticed a guy you know again staring at me from the bar and he was very distinctive looking just remember his look. So, okay, cool, but he didn't come up to him, which is great.
Speaker 1So did the gig get in my car? Now? It's like two in the morning or some shit. I'm sitting there just like Exhausted because I'm fucking old and I shouldn't be doing gigs till two in the morning. So I just happen to go on facebook right, of course, because that's what you do and your car, while you're waiting for it to warm up and this is like 2 am. I just left the club.
Speaker 1There's a friend request from this guy who I recognize. Like that's fucking spooky man. That's just isn't that weird, is it? That's just like I was like oh my god, that's just like. Like what's the motive behind that? You know? Like I don't. And then, and then I think for a little while I accepted the friend request and then it was like, inundated with videos of him playing drums, and you know that goes oh god, here we go. You know, like I this is well. This is really why this podcast was born, out of me being pissed off at the the swath of society who buys an instrument and then claims that they're a musician, right? Yeah, you know, I bought a guitar, I play guitar you know you just go to salmon.
Speaker 2You get to record and put it out to the world. Right, I'm a guitar player.
Speaker 1I'm a guitar player because I have a guitar. That's just the way it is. You know, let me get. And there's, you can't tell who's who. Like you know, I have people say, oh, this is my friend, joey plays drums. I don't. Okay, joe could be great or not. You know what I mean. It's like you know you don't like work in a hospital as a surgeon and you meet another brain surgeon and go oh, I wonder if he's a good brain surgeon. I, you know he is, but with music he's like you don't know.
Speaker 2You don't know what's gonna happen man, it's just like the wild west. I don't know, it's a little bit of the wild west, it is, but I I think that I still think that somehow the the cream rises, mm-hmm, it makes it harder. Yes you know it's, the world's become really tiny, um, so there's gonna be this, there's gonna be imposters. Yeah but I. There's also a lot of people that get to be heard that people never knew would ever know about. Yes, that is the one thing.
Speaker 1I like about, which is awesome. Facebook man. There's some people on there that that especially singers, blow me away. Oh, I think where is this? You know who is this person? Yeah there's some of this. You know, the, the, the Italian guy, this guy who lives in Italy, the drummer, he's like a let go Heavy metal drummer the guy that like flip the sticks.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, he drinks coffee, he drinks coffee.
Speaker 1He plays with one hand. It's amazing. He plays with one hand faster than I can ever play with three hands.
Speaker 2It's insane Like where did he come?
Speaker 1from Like it's just so bizarre, and and Joel sends me clips of that- like it's just because it's almost funny.
Speaker 2It is almost funny, it's elevated humanity. These guys are these guys?
Speaker 1Yeah, see, and I think you and I are sort of the same generation. You're younger than me but, um, I think when you're born into, like the exposure, right, if, like, I didn't know what was out there, I didn't, there was no internet. When I was a kid I was just practicing and I played in a stage band, who know you know. But now you can go and google, like you know whatever, and see these guys, and then I think it could raise the level it so raises the level, especially that you can see it.
Speaker 2See it, remember. I remember putting on an Al Jarrell record and to hear Steve Gad play one of his little one of his like snare drum hi-hat you know like the roll thing and like figuring that out.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2Right, which is great for your ear, but like that could have been figured out way faster if I just saw it once for a second Right. I don't know if one way is better than the other, it's just, it is what it is, but it definitely helps when you can see it.
Speaker 1When you can see it, it definitely helps.
Speaker 2Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1Yeah, I the here we go back to. Club is the club I was in in 19. I guess it's like 79 or something played. Let me see if I get this right. If we played Liberty De Vito's wedding at the Narragansett in and Billy Joel was there and you know he was just the way you are I just come out, I'm not sure what year that was and you know it was Liberty's wedding but as soon as Billy Joel came in, the people like all over him and stuff. It was kind of weird and he sat in and he played just the way you are, and Liberty played drums and I that was the like I saw Liberty do the brush thing, the one stick, one brush thing, and I was like, oh, that's what he's doing, like I actually saw him do that at his own wedding and it, you know, and like you said it's, it was like that's how I figured it out.
Speaker 2It makes sense.
Speaker 1I was like because you listening to it, like what the hell's going on in this record, you know, and. But if you like, you said, if you see it, which I did it makes a world of difference. You know, and these guys, now, the young musicians, now that could see anything.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Right yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean. One good thing about not seeing it actually is, sometimes you hear something and you think you're playing what's there, but you're playing a hybrid of it because your ears steered you wrong and now you've, now you, now you have, you have some vocabulary that's yours, now you know what.
Speaker 1I mean yeah.
Drumming Evolution and Drummer Abilities
Speaker 2But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, the world is smaller, so it's amazing that people at a very young age can see. You know, like this guy that Joel sends you the videos of he's. That's freakishly talented, right. But if enough people see that that's, that's going to be the new right norm eventually.
Speaker 1Where does it go from there? I mean the drums in general it's always.
Speaker 2I've always felt this way, like the, the, like how many people, how many people, how many saxophone players, for instance, physically, are playing the horn that much better than Charlie Parker was 70 years ago. I get what you're saying, yeah, but with drums I mean, maybe there are guys right.
Speaker 1It's physically, yeah, but like now with drums.
Speaker 2What drummers can do, what drummers can do, can you imagine? Can you imagine someone in 1970 seeing Chris Coleman play?
Speaker 1No.
Speaker 2This is, it's not even. I have no words Like what do you? How do you deal with that?
Speaker 1Right, right. How do you deal with that?
Speaker 2It's crazy, right, and he's not the only one, but it's like it's amazing. Now we can have an argument over. Is it is our, our drummers in particular, better than guys? Then, and that's where my attitude completely changes. I don't know what better means either, but like it's not about just what you can do, it's what you. What are your, what are your choices?
Speaker 1What choices?
Speaker 2are you making Right. So that's, that's a huge part of it, and sometimes, when the the the technical side of things gets so monstrous, then the choices some people are making to me are a little go, a little bit in the wrong direction. Oh yeah, I agree so but man, the de-instrument, physically, is still changing at a fast rate.
Speaker 1It's a physical, definitely a physical lunch man. It's funny you should say that because I here's another peeve of mine Like I, I have some. I am very aware of what facility I have and don't have. But I lose all my facility when I have to play, play a certain volume, like sometimes I'm playing in a band and I'm like it's like I just I can't eat, I can't. You guys, you win you, you beat me into submission.
Speaker 1I just can't, I can't even play, I can't even play a role anymore, like it's just like smashing as loud as I can, like I don't even, I don't get that. I think guys who can do that are way better drummers than me, like, because there are guys that can play, like that guy that metal guy.
Speaker 2Yeah, how, how well. Chris Coleman is a perfect example of that. Yeah, Such power with all that facility. Yeah, finesse, but big, sounding Like. There was a time that I remember, like in the 80s and 90s, a lot of metal drummers. It got to the point where they were playing with incredible speed, but then when I started to realize they were barely moving.
Speaker 1They're not hitting the drums Right.
Speaker 2Like that, that Italian guy? He doesn't move at all. Some of these gospel drummers are playing from here and they're doing all that as well, Right? So, it's like whoa. It's crazy.
Speaker 1Did you see the drummer video of the guy who's it's like famous now he was playing, you know, I guess he was playing the guy who was throwing his sticks up in the air and then, yeah, that guy Playing sharp dress man, that's the one sharp dress man. Yeah, like what, like that? 20 years ago that would not exist. They wouldn't know that guy, they would think that guy was insane. The people at that kid would say this guy's just out of his mind, try to go lock him up. And now he's a phenomenon on that guy. Oh man, that guy was on an episode of give us, uh, see the office. Yeah, there was an episode where they joined the forms, a little office band, and he's the drummer. Yeah, it's like, oh my god, there he is.
Speaker 1Oh my god man, crazy, crazy, crazy man.
Challenges in Musician's Career
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean. For me, I will tell you this at the end of the day. I mean I was lucky enough to have brothers that play drums, but probably the some of the best advice I ever got Playing for this stuff has been from non drummers, like having a bass having a bass player that really knows what they're doing and what they're talking about. Turn around and say that that's what you're doing. There it's like everything you're doing is right, but you know what it's all wrong. Yeah, it's not working.
Speaker 2Yeah and like, you know, like playing, you know playing, playing like something that was of the time anyway, like a little rmb, maybe a little touch of hip-hop, playing a groove, and you, you, you learning a song for a club date and you listen to it and then, if you know, say the kick and the snare part is like boom, the don't Like that right. And you hear eighth notes on the hi-hat. And here's where 99 percent of people are going to get this wrong. They're going to play that beat and they're going to get the kick drum right and they're going to get the snare drum right. They're going to play eighth notes. But that's where the problem is right, because they're going to do this, because we're taught to play musical.
Speaker 2Right right, it's like it has, I think.
Speaker 1I do that on that record on that record.
Speaker 2If we actually listen to really what's there, there's zero dynamics and it's so. If you don't do that, then that flavor is gone, right, and any bass player worth his salt is going to feel like, well, that doesn't feel right. And a drum, like a drum teacher, is not going to show you that. Yeah, necessarily some will, if you're lucky. Yeah.
Speaker 1Because you can't teach that kind of intuitive drumming or musicianship. I think I don't. I don't, you know, you, that's like, that's like a thing, that's like you said. It's like it's almost cerebral the way you have to approach the playing part of this. I mean, it's like you really have to, you know, think like what you just said. You have to have to kind of like Analyze it, but it's got to come out right you know, yeah, you have to be able to.
Speaker 2You have to be able to identify what is it about, the flavor of it and not the part. And sometimes it means Taking the musicality out of it, because maybe the guy who programmed that doesn't even a drummer, yeah right. And if you don't, you have to. You have to have the ear to hear that and have the guts to say, okay, my drum teacher would shoot me right now, so that's what I'm going to do. And then, wallah, all of a sudden you're funky Yep.
Speaker 1So for you it's the, it's it is it the bass player like that's kind of like the Key musician in the bands, tart to say. For me sometimes it is sometimes it's now, it goes around.
Speaker 2Yeah yeah, when you I mean, if you know how often do you do you play in a band where the singers it's like you're basically a human karaoke machine, like they're out front and you're back there, right, and the only time they look at you is to tell you to pick it up. Right, because that's the fixes all problems in musical life play faster, right.
Speaker 1Wait, I did. This is, this is, and I have an awesome story for you. Okay, okay.
Speaker 2Okay, but go ahead. We sometimes, if when you're lucky, you come around, you get around singers that they base everything they're doing on what you're doing, and now you're talking about a real musician and real singer, right, and when you're lucky enough to be around those, it's awesome, right, so it's anybody and I have been around those, those, but for the most part.
Speaker 1I always get the guy, girl, whatever, this just gets up my ass. Man, I gotta tell you this this is makes me want to quit music. All together on a gig and, like You're so I'm almost always a sub it's like, all right, we're gonna do blah, blah, blah, get it off. And I'm like I don't, I'm subbing man, can somebody just count it off for me? No, no, no, you know this. You, I'm gonna count it off. Okay, one, two, three, four, boom, but no, no, no, speed it up, like what? Why can't you just count off your own tune? Why, if you think that should be faster, why can't you just count?
Speaker 1This is what I get all the time and I want to shoot somebody. Man, I swear to god, I swear to god, you know it's like, or, or like, if it's not grooving or something. Like you said, pick it up, just play faster. You know, ultimate white guy, just just play fast again and then that'll make it groove. Of course, you know, I swear, I've been in all these these situations. You know I'm sure you've been in less because you're in a different circuit. You know that probably happens less in your circuit.
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, but I've done thousands of club dates. So yeah yeah, I mean it's really bashing club dates the day I know. I mean, hey, man, I did a club date. I did a club did in saturday night with an awesome band. Yeah great musicians.
Speaker 1So there are some guys, uh, j prince does that, he hires all players.
Speaker 2They everybody plays you know which is a it's a rarity, I think, greg schlakesband also.
Speaker 1They hire guys, most people. You know, like the way he started this, this whole thing, when I was the first podcast I did, let's talk it about. Like you know, four years, five years of college, practicing incessantly, listening to people learning technique down, studying steve gad right, and then there I am in a tuxedo in the huntington townhouse elevated next to an open vat of sauce With my drums, like how the sh. You know, man, I it's like this cost me like 60 000 to get this degree. And all this time, and here I am next to like this, you know, veal parmesan going up the elevator. You know it's just not, it's not funny, it's like it's just a Like who else could say that? You know, I mean you pull this time in, you know, and and you wind up like that. You know it's anything to the best guys.
Speaker 1You know it can happen to you know it's a yeah you know, I, I mean you you must have had some shitty gig going on. I mean, now you're doing great gigs, right yeah, but you must have had a bunch of Shit going up, right.
Speaker 2Or something. Yeah, yeah, it's still still peppered in there, here and there.
Speaker 1now, too, of course.
Speaker 2I mean it's, it's just, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm fully invested, though. So it's yeah my am I, I have a. I think I have a pretty good tolerance for, for you know, if something is, if, if something you can.
Speaker 1You can roll it. Yeah, I can roll with it.
Speaker 2I'll look, I'll try to find some redeeming Goodness and what's going on at the moment and be cool with it.
Speaker 1Yeah, you know there are times I mean I'm surprised on every gig, so like sometimes I had to get like oh man, this is gonna suck. And I get there and it's like wow, this, it's felt pretty good, it was good. And then sometimes the opposite. I'm like oh, I can't, I'm getting psyched, so I get them like it's just a disaster for whatever reason I mean it's not, you know it's.
Speaker 1It's such a like this is such a weird thing. Being a musician is not. It's so vague, almost you know what I mean Like yeah, it's it. There's so many different levels of it. Like, no, there's no other like this is how we say this. No other career where You're exposed to so many different levels of what you do, right and and you really don't know until you hear or play with the person.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, I mean. The thing is, it's also like someone you mentioned someone before, I forget who it was that said it chooses, chooses you. I mean, I was wacko who said it definitely does, because no one in their right mind Would take a look at this how this whole thing is right and decide Okay, that's what I'm gonna do. That's crazy.
Speaker 1Dave was pretty adamant about it. I remember him being like that always, like personally, I mean, he's he's like. You know, I'm sort of outspoken about how I feel about this and he's, he's outspoken too. He's like look, man, if this is not happening For you, like if you're not, if you're not Experienced since this correctly, or you're not achieving what you want, or you're not, it doesn't feel right to other people around you.
Speaker 2You just move on you know, this is not for you.
Speaker 1You know it's like he. You know he's really. He's like the consummate drummer in that he he's got everything aspect of it covered, even tuning the drums and buying the drum, everything you know. He just always had everything together. He's super thoughtful. He is pretty awesome. He is he always. Yeah, he's like he was like. He said he was born.
Speaker 2For this he was. I mean, we should all be that way. If you, if you're gonna do something, it's it's hard to do it to the best of your ability.
Speaker 1You know, I said the thing I believe you, you play, everybody plays a personality, right. So, um, I play my I'm like I'm like a Gemini, so I'm like Some days I'm great, some days I suck, you know, I mean, it's reflected in my playing, I think you know let's uh, ignore that, um, but but, like you know, joel plays his plays, his personality. He's Joel's like an easy-come guy and he plays great, but he's not as um no, choose my words here he's, he's, uh, he is different. You know, he it's like he sounds different because his personality is different, it's different. That's what I believe, you know. You know Totally totally.
Speaker 2I mean, for I know, for me I try to be a nice guy and and and I'm I've always tried to be a like a team player. I mean With music, I feel like it has to be that way, right, um, and I don't feel like I play. I'm not you generally playing an instrument that I view as a. It's not a solo instrument, it's I'm there to, to, to to create a time feel and move things along and if I have my moments to step out, great.
Speaker 2And if I can put my flavor on things, it's great, um, but I'm a, I want, I'm a supporter first right, among other things. But one thing that over over time that I definitely have gotten In front and I got this from other players around me is, especially with certain kinds of music, but generally in anything, when you're the drummer it's like, man, you are driving the bus.
Speaker 2Yeah if you don't, if you don't have that attitude like I am, I'm like everybody. Check it, hello everybody. This is where it's at right and you have to believe it. If you don't believe it, even if you're good, you're an impot, you're still an imposter right.
Speaker 1If you really have a good, a good drummer can make a break a situation. Yep, I happen to feel personally uh, to me, like a bass player. It's extremely important too, because I don't have a lot of good records with just a drum machine playing and a bass player is just pushing this, push like a bb Wine's, his stuff is like drum machine man and he's got you know who? Um, who plays bass on his stuff?
Speaker 2I don't know Any bass player on a wine's record is gonna be, and they're killing it right there they're making a drum machine work.
Speaker 1You know when it's not even, it's like a michelin digger cello's record plantation lullabies.
Speaker 2That's most mostly programmed.
The Importance of Drummers in Music
Speaker 1Yeah, that's like some of the fun stuff ever, yeah, so so to me you could get by with it With, like a mediocre drummer not mediocre a fair drummer and a great bass player. That's me. I don't know, you know I. I do know a bad drummer couldn't wreck a gig, though oh yeah, I've seen it happen, you know yeah.
Speaker 2I'm, yeah, the big the thing about like, with, with humans playing, like, if the drummer is really on point, the bass player is even going to be better. You know what? I'm saying it's like you know exactly a great bass player Is going to shine with the drum machine, because the drum machine is perfect. And now they're there, and and they're going to just make it even better. Right, because that's going to be that human element. But if you have a guy or a girl playing drums at that level, then the then it's even better.
Speaker 2It's like you know yeah.
Speaker 1Cool. That's good stuff, man. Yeah, it does. That was great great stories, man. So I I think we have to wrap it up because it's it's an hour, um, but I appreciate you coming in. It was great great stories. Like you know, I'm very cool. You did this. It's people are gonna appreciate it and they're gonna comment and they're gonna say Brian's great. I heard him play two weeks ago in San Francisco, whatever you know. But thanks a lot, man Cool, thanks, dad Cool.
