Embark on an auditory expedition with me, John Simeone, as I sit down with the inimitable saxophonist Jeff Lange, whose musical tales are as rich and varied as the notes that flow from his sax. Picture, if you will, a young Jeff grappling with the strings of a guitar and the keys of an accordion before the saxophone’s siren call captured his soul. Our conversation dances around the mirthful realities of club date gigs, where the glamour of jazz intertwines with the joy of weddings and corporate shindigs, all while debunking the mystique surrounding those unsung heroes of the squeezebox.
Turn the page to a chapter where the classroom and stage cross chords, and Jeff and I reminisce about the educators who moonlighted as gigging pros, leaving their indelible grooves on us. Jeff's own odyssey from the echoes of private school hallways to the rhythm of public education unfolds, revealing how networking in music can be as serendipitous as a perfectly timed key change. Amid the sharing of these anecdotes, we honor the craft of teaching, the ebb and flow of musical styles, and the fondest memories of those lessons that transcended notes and clefs.
As our session nears its coda, Jeff and I muse on the symphony of life changes post-retirement, finding solace in the jazz haunts of Stony Brook and the company of fellow musicians. We transport you through the soundscapes of a versatile career that's skipped from rock gigs to Broadway's spotlight, all while savoring the idiosyncrasies of aging in music. Jeff's journey, peppered with laughter and learning, invites you on a nostalgic riff through the joys, challenges, and sheer unpredictability of a life dedicated to the art of sound.
Embark on an auditory expedition with me, John Simeone, as I sit down with the inimitable saxophonist Jeff Lange, whose musical tales are as rich and varied as the notes that flow from his sax. Picture, if you will, a young Jeff grappling with the strings of a guitar and the keys of an accordion before the saxophone’s siren call captured his soul. Our conversation dances around the mirthful realities of club date gigs, where the glamour of jazz intertwines with the joy of weddings and corporate shindigs, all while debunking the mystique surrounding those unsung heroes of the squeezebox.
Turn the page to a chapter where the classroom and stage cross chords, and Jeff and I reminisce about the educators who moonlighted as gigging pros, leaving their indelible grooves on us. Jeff's own odyssey from the echoes of private school hallways to the rhythm of public education unfolds, revealing how networking in music can be as serendipitous as a perfectly timed key change. Amid the sharing of these anecdotes, we honor the craft of teaching, the ebb and flow of musical styles, and the fondest memories of those lessons that transcended notes and clefs.
As our session nears its coda, Jeff and I muse on the symphony of life changes post-retirement, finding solace in the jazz haunts of Stony Brook and the company of fellow musicians. We transport you through the soundscapes of a versatile career that's skipped from rock gigs to Broadway's spotlight, all while savoring the idiosyncrasies of aging in music. Jeff's journey, peppered with laughter and learning, invites you on a nostalgic riff through the joys, challenges, and sheer unpredictability of a life dedicated to the art of sound.
Okay, improv man, welcome to episode. I think this is episode 15 of On Drums. My name is John Simeone. Today I have my friend Jeff Lang, who's not a drummer. I can't seem to get drummers on this On Drums, I've noticed. Yeah, it's like it's become on whatever you play, but the ones you have are really good that I have to say. So Jeff and I go back like how many years Jeff so?
Speaker 2:you know one name that I have because I've listened to all your podcasts oh, you've listened to all them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, I haven't even listened to them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's where I like go out. I do my walk outside. And you know I check them out. One name that I haven't heard you mention of, like your old gigs, is where, I believe, if you correct me, we met a guy named Dave Farron. Oh sure.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Dave.
Speaker 1:Farron, you look like 1978. Okay, so, dave. So you want Dave Farron gigs.
Speaker 2:I did Dave.
Speaker 1:Farron gigs with you, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like you know we're so old.
Speaker 2:No, I'm older than that. You know. When you say old, I went from being like the youngest guy on the bandstand to the oldest guy. So now, now I don't really work with any guys that were older I was.
Speaker 1:I was there. There aren't many left. I used to every band I was in. I was the youngest guy. In fact, I had to get a ride there. I'm from my dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how young I was. I remember that you said you know your dad was big into getting you to play the drums.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was. He was like you know, actually he screwed me in a way because he he started me with club dates. He didn't know any better, you know, and then and then the club date thing is what I kind of stuck with, you know, and I in some ways I kind of I think I missed out on all these other gigs because they were all consuming, like you know how it was in the 80s it was a million gig, million clock dates, Everybody was working, but I actually did a lot of stuff before I did club dates I mean you listen into that, your podcast like it's.
Speaker 2:that's such a common theme that everybody does, does club dates Right? And of course, you know the average show. They hear club dates and think you're working on a club, but you know, I got the word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:But you know we're talking weddings and bar mitzvahs and corporate parties and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1:And those were the. Those were the funny stories. Anyway just start me with like had you like? How did you start out? What did you so? Um give us the Jeff Lang history. Yeah, I mean um you don't know, you forgot. I do, I do.
Speaker 2:Actually I had two failed attempts. Uh, miserably um first at um guitar.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, which I don't know how I even got that. I think my mom just took me to the music store and my mom. My son gave me an instrument and to this day I have, like I can play almost any instrument, but I have zero aptitude for strings.
Speaker 1:Oh, the guitar yeah. So anything with strings is like a real challenge for me, but anything else, but you're talking about like, what, like middle school or what, what age? Elementary school, elementary school, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And then I tried the um, the accordion, you know.
Speaker 1:I've been dying to get an accordion player on the podcast.
Speaker 2:You know that joke about the guy who leaves the, the accordion and then backseat of his car downtown Manhattan. Of course you know what happens when he comes back. No, I have to tell me there's two accordions, you know.
Speaker 1:So my grandfather played accordion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean look, when I first started doing the plug dates, they were still guys playing the quarter box, which was, uh, you know, an accordion and box, that's right. And some of these guys were fantastic. I mean Richie Domeno do you know, Richie? Nope, he was a great keyboard player and uh, but I remember like he played the, the accordion or the quarter box, whatever they call it.
Speaker 1:I went to school. They had an accordion. Ensemble University of Bridgeport had an accordion and they were killer. They weren't just doing, like you know, italian songs, they were doing like hard shit, they were like great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it was definitely ethnic. So on some of those early Italian gigs or, uh, um, certainly polka bands, you know, you heard the accordion. There was a guy from Long Island who was a terrific writer, a ranger, who played ridiculous the good jazz accordion, a guy named Angelo de Pippo I know that name. I think he was from Garda Jazz accordion. No, that's interesting he was. This guy was like a virtuoso player.
Speaker 1:So what did he do? How do you? They did like a left hand bass, Like I don't even know what's the left hand for and I don't even know what that is on the accordion.
Speaker 2:I'm not an accordion player, but you know, I think some of the bass, I think some of those, uh, they're like court stops, you know, press a button.
Speaker 1:See major, see seven okay, right, whatever, but I'm not sure. So anyway, you didn't you, you played accordion.
Speaker 2:So, so. So those two things pretty much failed.
Speaker 1:And then, you're lucky, the accordion failed.
Speaker 2:And then a friend of mine, um, who, uh, he's a retired neurologist now but I'm actually going to go visit him over president's week down in Florida. He had gotten a brand new saxophone and a really good one, selma Mark six. Right from the get go His dad was kind of like a semi pro and his older brother also played, so they got him a good sax right out of the, you know, right out of the barrel. And I just remember like he opened the case and it looked like a bucket of jewels, like gold, you know. It was like all shiny and I was like, okay, I want to do that.
Speaker 2:You know so how old were you, then I was um, I guess nine or 10.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's starting edge yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, between fourth and fifth grade, I guess. And um, so my mom takes me to the music store and um, fortunately for me, there was a guy there named Pete Mandela who played in Benny Goodman's band and he was like teaching in this local store. So my mom said you know, my son would like to play the saxophone, like to rent a sax and get him a sax. And they said okay, great, All right, here's your clarinet.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep Wait a minute.
Speaker 2:I can't get it, isn't?
Speaker 1:it funny how long ago that was and that still goes on today, where people don't get that connection, and why you really let it. Not a lot of people started on sax right.
Speaker 2:Nowadays people start on sax. They do not get that connection. Well, I mean all days. It was a given. You played the clarinet and then you learn how to play the sax. They start.
Speaker 1:I mean my kids. My kids are doing this. They start on sex because of the way the dynamic is shift, I think with the parents. So it used to be no, we don't start sax players. We start on clarinet, and then that's you or Woodwin player, and now they're like no, my kids. Mike, he wants to play out the sax. He started on a TV. He wants to play out the sax.
Speaker 2:Of course Well yeah. I mean, you don't really see the clarinet on TV unless you watch it.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying, and my kids don't get it either.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing you know back in the day, you know if you think of like what's popular at top 40, benny Goodman, harding Shore you know, guys in the Glenwoods. You know, guys, in the Glenn Miller band clarinet was a big instrument that was, you know, very popular. So anyway, I mean it turned out to be a great thing and it's really considered old school now, but I'm convinced in my mind it's really the right way.
Speaker 1:What is what? Is it Just start on clarinet? Yeah, that's why I started my kids on clarinet. It's the right thing to do. I don't know. I mean I the kid, the 10 year olds even know oh, you did, but that's. I think there's different generations today. They don't know you give them a bunch of things that they don't know what to start on. Drums always want to start drums, you know, play drums.
Speaker 2:Everybody want. I mean, I taught elementary bands so, like you know, I have the people that sign up to play. They want to be drummers, Right?
Speaker 1:You know I used to say this at my concerts because I would have, when I first started teaching people would complain because my kid won't sign up for drums. Why can't he get drums? My kids, why can't my kids play sax? I used to say at the I used to give a speech at the concert about just to all you people who wanted to start your kids on those two instruments with, which are the most popular, you would be sitting here now watching 20 saxes, 15 drummers at 30 flutes and that's it Right there, and then have to put a على when they teach people a microphone. So I would be pushing for that dink. You know it's true, they don't get balancing a band, you know, as music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean, I'll get back to how I got into it, but I would just say that I was really pretty good at manipulating them without knowing that they were being starting kids yeah. Being manipulated like. I could size them up pretty, pretty quickly and you get kids kids.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden they'll take to something that comes easily to them. So you know, if the kids can get a good good buzz on a trumpet or something and you know they want it to play whatever you know flute or something, then all of a sudden they're like oh wait, yeah, no, I like this you know I liked, so I was pretty good at guiding them.
Speaker 1:So you and you know what you just struck me just really thinking something. You're one of the few guys is not a lot of guys like you who you taught what, uh, what level.
Speaker 2:Uh, well, for my public school. Public school, yeah, I taught elementary, elementary school. I was there first, you know. So there are not a lot of guys.
Speaker 1:There's more out there than not of music teachers who don't play, which is weird. And play well, I mean, I have to play obviously but look at it now.
Speaker 2:There's so many.
Speaker 1:I mean, but they have to teach us. I worked with that they don't. They don't. I mean you should be doing gigs. You know I mean you should. If you're especially a read player, you should be doing gigs. Right, a drummer, especially to should be working. But a lot of people like, nope, I just teach the flute player in it and I go home. I don't know how that works. Like, I just think they're not, as they could be better teachers if they were players. And I think there's a handful of guys you Joel's one, joel Levy's one, um, a bunch of guys come to my computer and Dazzo.
Speaker 2:There's so many guys now that that are in the education field that are great players. You know there used to be that added.
Speaker 1:You know those who can do and teach, or whatever. I guess that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've been, I've been exposed to a couple of them. Yeah, but you could put a band together now. Um are you familiar with, like interplay. They're a big band and they wanted a big bands to place Thursday nights at the jazz loft.
Speaker 1:Does Matt Miller play with them? Um no no, no, I'm thinking something else.
Speaker 2:No, so a lot of the guys are, uh, graduates of Hofstra, but not all of them, and a lot of the guys in that band are school teachers, and that is a hell of a good band, I mean, you know, great, great players.
Speaker 1:I mean John Marshall plays, oh John, yeah, John plays in that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know they're, they got some serious.
Speaker 1:I think it's sick. The only part of education where the teacher should be actively involved in the field me personally, you know what I mean. Like if you're a math teacher you're not on weekends, you know doing math, but but when the creative part of it you should. I think you should be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my um, my elementary band teacher was a guy named Robert Dillman. He was a drummer, but he was a great teacher.
Speaker 1:And when I got to uh.
Speaker 2:I went to a junior senior high combo. You know you went to the school from seventh to 12th Elm Elm Memorial um our junior high band teacher guy named Sal Scala. He was a gigging trumpet player Right and eventually, like when I became an adult, I actually wound up doing club dates with him and his wife. She was a great piano, you know it's funny about that too I'm doing.
Speaker 1:I do gigs sometimes with former students and it freaks me out because a lot of them can't call me John. You know it's just so weird. You know I'm on the. You know, like, uh, mr Simi, the next song, like it's just it's you know, no, mostly.
Speaker 2:I mean, I do tons of gigs with former students now and uh, no, they were. They're well trained. They can call me.
Speaker 1:John. Okay, well, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I I was a flick stickler with that, with, like the, you know, strict teacher and I don't want to take any credit for any success they've had or any talent they have Like. I'm glad I didn't screw them up, you know, but you of course you, you definitely had to have some role.
Speaker 1:I mean I, you used to help me out at the middle school with with uh, with jazz band rehearsals at night. You come down and do sectionals.
Speaker 2:I did want to do one of two sections, In fact you.
Speaker 1:You discovered a couple of things in my section. A kid, some kid. I wasn't a sax player, but you found that the kid who was playing lead alto had a really good vibrato I wasn't aware of. She just naturally had that and you got it out of her. Yeah, how about that? For remembering something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean and that's a whole other thing you know how styles change over the years, like now in a contemporary band, like a lead alto player can play with vibrato but the other guys don't.
Speaker 1:Right. But you know, you go back to Duke Ellington and Count Basie right, those guys play together like for a half a century and they, they could do it.
Speaker 2:You know that was like uh, it was like a living organism that they could all do it together at the same time.
Speaker 1:But that's not the way you know no, no, I'm just saying that was something I remember. You as, as a professional player, picked that out that I never would have got. I never learned.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, you were in a good district. You had a really good department, a lot of good guys working there, you know man, we had fun.
Speaker 1:I was just trying to explain to my kids the way I used to do. Um, it's so weird, like I didn't mean to talk about music education, but we are so, uh, it's like I. It's funny Like I have a lot of kids who remember me and then some of them are I mean, they're all adults now and some work with my wife. You know which is weird. She is one of my former students, is in her department, and we ran into them somewhere. She was with her family and her parents or mom, and her mom made a point to say something to me Like I remember you like used to be so funny at the concerts, like I'd make jokes, that kind of like. That's what they remember, like it's just weird to me out, you know, it's like it that that she must have been under 80s or something and she remembers me from that, you know. I mean, did you?
Speaker 2:teach long. I mean near the end of my public school teaching Korea. You know, before I retired I was actually teaching the kids of students that I had.
Speaker 1:Oh, I had that. I had that.
Speaker 2:I couldn't stand that, so you know that's that means you've been doing it for quite a while.
Speaker 1:Anyway. So so you, you say you you went to school, where'd you go to college? So I went to Queens college.
Speaker 2:Oh, my wife went to Queens college.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I went to Queens college and then you got hard right of college teaching.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no. So I mean the way the story goes is you know, I got that clarinet at the music store and I mean this is kind of, kind of strange. But it was a kid living across the street who had an older brother who played the sax and his older brother was like a way and like I think a guy went to med school or something, and I was an old, an oldeen child at the time I'm like 12 years old and my sister so I had like two English races, you know, and he didn't have one, so we traded.
Speaker 2:A sax for a bike he gave me his brother's sax and I gave him a bicycle. Of course, when the parents found out, we had to but.
Speaker 2:I taught myself because I had played the clarinet so I knew how to read the music and how to put the read on. You know there was a book in the case called A Tuna Day had a fingering chart. So I pretty much taught myself. On the saxophone and I didn't really take a saxophone lesson until I was 20. And when I took that was with Joe Allard at Julliard.
Speaker 1:So you just were a natural, that was your thing, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, it came pretty naturally to me. And then in college I started off, you know, as I got out, as a political science major, even though I had more credits in music than I did in political science. But they had a you know a sequence and I didn't start right away, so I wasn't a music major. So out of college you just started doing gigs. So while I was in college I met some other sax players and one of the guys said you know, I'm going up to the Cascals for the summer and we're looking for, you know, another sax player. You're interested in doing it. And I'm like yeah.
Speaker 2:And he said well, you got to join the union. I'm like, oh wow, the union, the union, yeah, the 802. You didn't have to go into the city. They had a branch office in Freeport.
Speaker 1:I remember these to send guys on gigs. They just send up the union.
Speaker 2:So I used to. Uh, I went down there and I joined the union and, uh, you know, I collect a small pension from the union and based mostly on those early gigs, cause a lot of the gigs I did, like I said, I came to the club dates later, so I was doing different, different kind of.
Speaker 1:So you, you started teaching you gig like what's the timeline?
Speaker 2:You. I did my first gig at age 15. It was at a place that still exists called the Plattdeutsch oh my God, when I know that place. It's on Hempstead Turnpike, like in Franklin.
Speaker 1:I know that place.
Speaker 2:It's still there and it was actually like a I think it was a a political party like the local Republican club or something. And there was a guy from my high school he was a little bit older than me, he played guitar and he put a band together and, uh, you know, he asked me to do the gig and what I had to do was just read tunes out of a fake book. But I had to transpose. But you know, that's pretty easy transposition tenor, you know, you just read up a step.
Speaker 1:So I couldn't do that, so I couldn't reach a step. I can barely read concert. Yeah, yeah, no, I guess you get used to it, yeah.
Speaker 2:It was pretty easy. But you know those old fake books, you know they the way they were written. They were written. Concert. I didn't realize that. Yeah, it was all written in the piano key, most of them still are, though they've you know now they make bass clef and they they do. Do you know B flat and E flat books? But in those days everything was just in the piano key. So you had to, you had to transpose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Um, you just made me think of a funny story. You know, Joel Levitt no uh, steve Greenfield, Of course Steve's a great player. I've done a million gigs with Steve, so you, in fact you and Steve I think that was the same amount of time that you guys were playing on the same gigs that I was playing on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, steve, steve and I um, I'm a little bit older than Steve, but we were the youngest guys on the band and Steve's- well, Steve always looks like he's 10,.
Speaker 1:You know, he just always looked so.
Speaker 2:so we're still playing together. We play together in Richie Iacona's band. We've been doing that since like 1979. Oh, I can't believe that band is still on.
Speaker 1:So you got to tell us, tell. Tell him that this, tell him the story, because I remember him telling us this story on a gig that he was doing shows. He was doing, he's still doing shows, right, he still does a brother shows.
Speaker 2:I think he subs occasionally, but yeah, he had a lot of runs on Broadway.
Speaker 1:He had a captivated one day on a break and he was telling us he was doing a show and it was like you know, for him it was second nature you go in, you get the book and you play the show. And he said there was one, whatever show it was, there was one song that started that they would be a. You know, you go in and get your books and then the subs will come in and they'd take the book and they would just site read it, the little subs. There was one sub that came in and they had for different leads, different books and different keys, because some of the leads couldn't sing as high so they would. So whatever lead, you had to know what lead was on the on the play that night and grab that book. So the sub comes in, grabs the wrong book and it's a cello player. So the tune, of course.
Speaker 1:One of the songs starts with cello and she's reading it and she starts in the wrong key and he so Steve's telling it like this she starts the tune right, it's a solo cello. He goes and then the singer comes in and the singer is singing in that key. He goes and then the orchestra comes in a half step away from where she's singing, he goes and they had to like stop the stop the you know song and a conductor had to say, no, I have stepped up. And then, there you know, there was confusion, because it was like hilarious to me that that could actually happen on a Broadway show.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah Well, I can tell you personally my most you know, I'll share, share on this podcast my absolute, devastating, most embarrassing moment in music. What's that, ken? To what you're just saying, I was subbing Annie on Broadway.
Speaker 1:Also, you've done Broadway shows too. That's cool.
Speaker 2:So, um, in those days, this is before days of those. This is before finale. Yeah, and these books were handwritten. The book never left the theater, right, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Okay. So if you were a sub, the way it worked is you came in one night. You sat next to the guy, you watched him play the show and then you basically come in and you're basically sight reading the show.
Speaker 1:My friend Bill Lanham does, or did, lay mis for forever. He wanted me to do that Go sit next to him and watch the show and then learn the book.
Speaker 2:So they still do that. But now you get a PDF, you get a recording to practice along with and, and you know, hear how the you know whatever like how long it is between these two. So I go in, you know, the first time, and I'm like um, I'm not only counting every beat, I'm counting every fraction of every beat. Meanwhile, guys are playing checkers.
Speaker 1:Right Cause it's done a million times.
Speaker 2:They're reading paperback books or the newspaper or something you know. And so I did well, thank God. And then the you know the second time they say oh, you know, sophomore jinks, man, don't worry about it, like everybody screws up.
Speaker 1:The second time because you get, so you get kind of overconfident yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm like this is not, that's not going to happen to me, and it didn't. I did, fine, go in. You know, third, fourth time I got this thing knocked. So I go in and, like I said, the book never leaves the theater. Well, nobody told me there was. It was Annie, the Broadway show, annie, nobody told me there was a new kid singer, right. So there was this, you know, cold of vote J thing where you, you play along with the kid. It was kind of like a clarinet, so right, and it's on a page turn, of course, but it was, you know, in the key of C for the clarinet, so user friendly right.
Speaker 2:Very user friendly. So playing the show it's going great. Turn the page seven chops.
Speaker 1:Why would they do that? Why would?
Speaker 2:they do that. Nobody gave me a heads up. All these things that you were playing are now a half step higher, which that's a little clunky.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know I, you know I hit like a half a dozen clams before I settled in there and I was devastated, mortified. I mean I was. I was gun shy for the longest time, like I was really right, especially since you're exposed like that.
Speaker 1:See, that's, that's nerve wracking to me. I don't know how you guys do that.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, Terry had the best line about being exposed on your podcast. I'm still laughing.
Speaker 1:What was it?
Speaker 2:What was the one he said? Well, it's a fine line between being discovered and found out. Wait, no he. That was like one of the best lines.
Speaker 1:No his he had he had a better line. That I, I repeat every single podcast and that's the the four stages of being a musician, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, first stage Right, it's a little I tell it on every gig. Now I think that's great. John Simeone Right, I'll do it again.
Speaker 1:The first stage is is who the fuck is John Simeone? And the second stage is we got to get John Simeone? And the third stage is we need a young John Simeone. And the fourth stage is who the fuck is John Simeone?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah, no, terry's, he's got his finger on it now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He's definitely identified it correctly. Yeah, terry Terry's. Like he could, he could. He should write a book, I think. I think he should write a man, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, yeah, he's so. Anyway, you know, I mean I, I got started basically doing, doing shows.
Speaker 1:So when did you get, when did you get into public education, like how far along.
Speaker 2:So a friend of mine was teaching at a private school, the Greenvale school.
Speaker 1:Oh, Nassau County. Yeah, and we had very, you know, wealthy kids. Yeah, the kids. Yeah, I stood in a district like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, helps Ridiculous, you know. You know the double days, the FIPS, you know just big the posts, like legendary golden, you know right, golden Golden's musted, yeah. I think, it became a headmaster there, anyway. So I was there um literally 10 years.
Speaker 1:So was it was a public school? No, no, it was a private school.
Speaker 2:It was a private school, um up to ninth grade, okay, and after these kids graduated they would go to like a private uh academy, like Exeter or something like that. You know uh, all private schools. So, um, it was a part-time gig, um and part-time band band gig. Yeah, well, we gave lessons at the end of the day, so there was no school bus taking these kids home.
Speaker 1:It was like chauffeur driven oh yeah, I was looking up the kids. I love that. It's great yeah.
Speaker 2:But the last year that I worked there I did work full-time.
Speaker 1:At that, play at that school At that school.
Speaker 2:So I was working with my friend, Mike Matteo, who is the band leader.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know.
Speaker 2:Mike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he passed away. I know, I know, and it's funny.
Speaker 2:John was working with the Marshall work Right.
Speaker 1:We, when you, at the beginning of the podcast, we started talking about being the youngest in the band, mike used to call me young John because I used to do I was the. I was like I don't know, you know 17 doing gigs with him. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, we used to do gigs with his father, mike senior, who was like a big time society club date. He was such a good guy, mike, absolutely. I like Mike, you know, because of the varied skill level and the instrumentation of his band, which was not always balanced, because these rich kids, basically, you know, my kid wants to play for me, they played the right, that's.
Speaker 2:I'm now coming back to me right Rather than buying the published arrangements, he would write all the arrangements customized for his kids ability and instrumentation. So you know it was a big task.
Speaker 1:I was a trumpet player, right yeah.
Speaker 2:Play trumpet and keyboards and also play some, some drums.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, so that's fun, I didn't know. You know, mike, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, I knew Mike. Like I said, I worked with him for 10 years and the last year full-time, you know was doing general music classes besides doing the instrumental, and I was like you know, I'm doing the work of a public school teacher, I'm getting paid nicely but no benefits, right, that's the thing, right.
Speaker 1:I mean you know, no retirement system.
Speaker 2:So I was like, yeah, I kind of like doing this, you know, so you got into public school late. Yeah, yeah, it's age 35. I started teaching public school. I went back. I had enough credits, you know in New York state, to be certified as a teacher but I had to do my student teaching. So I went to the now defunct uh Dowling College and I got a master's degree in education and they did my supervised student student teaching and music. I got certified Um and so how many?
Speaker 1:so give me, give me the scenario. So you did that, and then you got hired. Where and how long?
Speaker 2:So um I got hired right away mid year, january of 1985, in middle country Um the director, there was a tenor player that I knew from playing gigs with Clem DeRosa's band, a guy named Al Longo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So now it's funny how we know these people. So, al Longo, what district was he in? It was middle country, okay, so middle Al Longo was the. This is bizarre that he said that he was the director of the McDonald's All-Star Jazz Band. Correct, I was in the band, wow Me. I was the only. It was two drummers, me, and who was the drummer?
Speaker 2:who's great, um don't put yourself down. No, this guy was killer.
Speaker 1:I think he passed away also, so he was a great big band player Um Joe Asiyoni.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Joe Asiyoni.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know Joe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we were the very first McDonald's All-Star Jazz. I have a picture of us in front of McDonald's, all of us, al's in the picture. I got a, I got a finite, but it's, it's hilarious and and we did some kind of cool gigs too, you know, like they, yeah, yeah, that was, that was a fun band, yeah so.
Speaker 1:So Al knew me and he had a teacher, took a leave mid-year and there was a woman doing this the elementary band, who was really like a chorus teacher, like instrumental was not her thing, I just keep the whole thought I was on a gig and Al was on another gig and we were talking and we were bullshitting and they were bullshitting with the band and Al said he was director of music at the time and he came up what you're talking about and he said, yeah, I only hire players.
Speaker 2:He said that that's right.
Speaker 1:I only hire players. That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's exactly what I was talking about before.
Speaker 2:Hiring players Exactly so. He, he, he knew the secret back, back then.
Speaker 2:Um, you know. So, um, anyway, this woman who was doing the elementary band said look, can I take over with this guy that took the leave? I'd like to do his chorus, general music, music thing. And Al was more than happy to let her do it. And this way, so he contacted, contacted Mike Richardson, mike Richardson, trombone, uh, cause we all played together in Clumsby and Mike Mike was on a similar path, he had just gotten certified or whatever. Um, so Al asked him and Mike said he'd just gotten a leave replacement in Roslyn, so he was doing a middle school band in Roslyn. He said no, I already got a gig. But you know, jeff Lang is graduating this month, um, from Dowling. He's going to be available. So Al called me at home and I believe the words were there's going to be a job in the New York times this weekend. Apply for that job. You know, he was funny, yeah.
Speaker 1:He really was funny.
Speaker 2:So, um, you know it came down to to, uh, myself and a drummer, um, dave, um, um, cause last name escapes me, but you know we interviewed with the two principals and Al is the, the director, and, um, so I'm talking to guy, a nice guy, and he had one year experience, public school, which I didn't Um, but you know he was a drummer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what's a drummer, so they asked.
Speaker 2:well, this is the question they asked like at the interview. So you know, mr Lang, you know why should we hire you over the somebody who's got a year experience?
Speaker 1:I'm not a drummer.
Speaker 2:Basically I said look um, you know, I played a flute, clarinet and saxophone professionally, like that's half the half your uh, you know, wind section.
Speaker 1:Hey, nobody was more surprised than me. Then I got hired, but I got hired in a different situation, like I've got hired.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he and I had players Bernie he did he did?
Speaker 1:Bernie didn't hire me. Um, I was the year before Bernie was Axel Norton. Um, and, and the reason I hate to say this, but my, my uncle was a guidance counselor at the high school, so he was well known. So, my, I graduated college and I was home for like a month doing a resume and my dad said, okay, that's enough with the resumes, go down to the high school, talk to your uncle, he's going to set you up. And I went down and my uncle said, okay, go down here, make a left.
Speaker 1:The assistant, the assistant, the pretend it's right there, I go in there. His name is Fred Bubba Bly went and I started talking to Fred nada, who's the? It was the assistant superintendent. And then I didn't even. It was an interview. So we bullshitted about nonsense and then at the end of it he said okay, so when do you want to start? How about you want to start today? I want to wait till Monday. I said I'll wait till Monday. And then I I was hired. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like they didn't, it was none of that. And I turned out I was, I did a good job and then Bernie was hired the following year, Axel retired.
Speaker 2:So this is um the same thing I've always said to my grandkids.
Speaker 1:You know, it's like who you know but then you got to be able to deliver. Right, you got to be able to. That was kind of sad. That was made clear to me. Like you were going to, you know you got an in here and if you screwed up you're not going to be there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So you know, um, I didn't really start doing any teaching until about 1975. I started doing some private teaching only because, uh, uh, a college acquaintance of mine, a guy named Bill Goodwin he was a trombone player and he was a band teacher out in Riverhead I was living in Greenland- at the time and he was where I stood and taught, I started Harbor Fields.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, harbor Fields.
Speaker 2:Well, I told my daughter last night I saw her for dinner and uh, that, um, I was going to be seeing you and uh, she remembers you because what she went to, she went to Harbor Fields when I was student, teaching when you was. So that's 1984.
Speaker 1:The girls really liked you, john, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was young. Yeah, you know well, they all it's like I was. You know, all the teachers were decrepit, you know, like a million years old, and there was me. I was 23 or some. You know who knows exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Harbor Fields my cause.
Speaker 1:my sister taught at Harbor Fields High School. That's how I got the the. By the way, you know who was in that class with my daughter was Mariah. Carey, yeah, yeah, I got a. I got a picture of them.
Speaker 2:Was she? Was she, in course, mariah Carey? No, no, she wasn't Right.
Speaker 1:That's not funny. She was in the building when I student taught Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:And uh, yeah, but I got a picture of them. I think it was the junior prom.
Speaker 1:Oh them together and they went in the same yeah.
Speaker 2:Pretty.
Speaker 1:I loved Harbor Fields. Yeah, my, you know. By the way, my friend Billy Alexander says hi and he lives in Northport. His kids go to Harbor Fields right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, uh, a small, but a good, good district.
Speaker 1:Oh man, the music department, bob Donocetti it was, it was killing.
Speaker 2:So so Donocetti's the guy and, uh, I go to the. My daughter wants to be in a band, you know, and, um, she wants to play flute. And she actually got a really good sound because when she was a kid I was really working the flute hard, like four hours a day, hard, yeah. So so, um, she had a good sound. But you know, I'm at the parents meeting and I'm noticing for what we were discussing earlier no saxophones, Yep, they didn't start, so I said to us, you know, I said to them at the parents meeting I happen to be a you know, professional musician.
Speaker 2:I play saxophone. You know. I noticed she not starting anybody and it was the same old school advice that I had gotten way back in the in the day, like no we, no, we, we, we start them on clarinet and then they can play sax or bassoon.
Speaker 1:They had a whole thing in place that I'd learned from how they they constructed the music department, the instrumental department, because they had a guy at the elementary who did all the elementary. It was a rich district. They they would bring the parents in at night Say, your kid wants to play an instrument? We have a deal at Sam Ash. It's a buy rental. Exactly. Every kid got a Yamaha trumpet, yamaha clarinet. Every kid played the same instrument. They bought them, they, they or they rented to buy. And then I was there for the recruitment. He would show me how you do it. You know what are we down this year? We need French horns. Okay, so when the kids can remember, we're going to put a brand new French horn out and a brand new baritone out and then that's what we're going to push the kids. And they had a bounced band, you know five to biz.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the way to do it. Yeah, that's. That's exactly how you kind of manipulate, motivate, you know they had it down.
Speaker 1:They had it down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and and I don't know any other district that that did that. I mean, some districts have instruments they give out, but they're generally beat up. They're like oh no. So all these kids started on new shiny, right, right, and it got a homogenous sound.
Speaker 1:That's the other thing I mean. No matter how big bad the kids play, they're all playing the same instruments.
Speaker 2:You know brand new versions of the same instruments you know, like any elementary band teacher, maybe middle school teachers, you know like your flute section is always sharp, yep, yep, and I hope my theory was always like the kids didn't want to pull the head down now because it turns a different color. You know it's. You know what I'm saying yeah.
Speaker 2:So so they they'd be sharp, so he would get them. They all got um G'minehart flutes, g'minehart flutes right, which were 435, not not A440, but 435. So they were pitched low and they were. They were not sharp to the rest of the band, like most of these orchestras. Now I think they tuned even higher. They tuned it like A442.
Speaker 1:I remember staying in front of that band it was TJ Lehi elementary school and I could see it my mind's eye, like literally at rehearsal, like 150 kids you know, like 40 trumpet players, 35 clarinet. I mean it was just a juggy. It was so intimidating and I thought that story was always. It was all districts were like that. And then when I went to West Icetub they did it a different way. They still do it a different way because they didn't have that demographic that that Northport has.
Speaker 2:You know, they had that kind of like little more money there, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:So um so. So how many years did you put in the public school system 27.
Speaker 2:27. So I went out at 62.
Speaker 1:62. And you didn't get. Did you get, you know, pension on it.
Speaker 2:I got pension without penalty.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, that's cool.
Speaker 2:So you know I mean when you're in, you know how the game works you're in for 20 years that it becomes the 2% multiplier.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So you know, 27 years, 54. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I remember them telling me about the pension when I first got hired, like oh you're going to get a pension. Like what the fuck is a pension?
Speaker 2:You know, I don't like it.
Speaker 1:You're 27 years old, okay, great. You know what? 2016. I'll be like the Jetsons I'm not going to make 2016. You know, and here we are. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, look it, you know the money in teaching is very good. I don't know if I would be able to to operate under this post COVID world. You know in the schools the way things are now. I don't know if I could could have done it, because I think when I started, you know back in 85, elementary schools were not that different than they were when I was a kid.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, now, yeah, now, they're way different yeah.
Speaker 2:They were different by the time I got out. But the money it took me several years, john, to take home more money as a public school teacher than I was making doing gigs on the weekend. You know, by that time in the 80s that's when I started I was doing a lot of club days.
Speaker 1:I think it took me man, I think 15 years before it was even something doable. I think I had to live in a department I mean, I was, you know, young, but the money was just. I think my my starting salary in 1984, or 85 was I'll take exactly what it was because I got two offers. I got one from LaSalle Military Academy. Lasalle offered me $15,000 a year West. I said West. I said well, if it'd be 16,000, so I took West. That's the only reason I took West. I had no idea what I was doing. $16,000 a year to start, yeah 85 middle country.
Speaker 1:I started for that's like $256 a check, $15,000. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:You know I mean, and then we used to say, me and Lena, we used to stay, coming early, leave late. We do young guys. You know we were there every day to like four o'clock teaching kids.
Speaker 2:We had that kind of thing, you know. Yeah, somehow Lenny wound up there as your union president.
Speaker 1:He was in the. He was a rep. I don't think he was a president.
Speaker 2:How many, I don't know Pretty sure he was the president, lenny, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, Lenny, if you're listening, clarify.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. No, I know he was a rep. I can kind of hear Lenny say it like yeah, I negotiated a pretty good deal for myself. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that sounds like Lenny.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:I love Lenny man. Great player, yeah. So so, um so. How long have you been retired now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, can you believe it? So I retired in 2011. So this is going to be 13th year.
Speaker 1:Wow, I went into 2016. Yeah, so for me it's seven, eight years. Now you know it's, I feel like I never taught.
Speaker 2:you know it was doable, because I got that pension, I took Social Security right away.
Speaker 1:Me too yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, right, right at age 62. I didn't take it right away, but they, they almost twisted my arm to take it. I took my pension from 802. I felt guilty about taking it on you know I had so many friends that this is what they do you know, and their financial leader went up there but I got like a like a nasty letter. They said like if you don't take it by such and such a date, we're going to reduce the amount, yeah, so then I'm like okay, you're making me take it.
Speaker 2:So I took it and then you know, I figured I would supplement it doing, doing gigs which I did for a number of years we work with.
Speaker 1:Now you're doing gigs, now I am easing my way out. Yeah, I feel like that too.
Speaker 2:So um look, a half a century of missing weddings, parties, birthdays you know, I don't do that anymore, so I I don't really work week. I might work one or two Saturday nights a year.
Speaker 1:Okay, Well, that's.
Speaker 2:I think that's kind of like everybody now I think nobody's so, but I'm in a really lucky spot, um, I basically work just better every Thursday night. Where's the Thursday night? Um, so the jazz loft in Stony.
Speaker 1:Oh, was that they had it's their big band night. Not Leon's band, is it no? No?
Speaker 2:no, though Leon's band did do do one Thursday night there. No, they so they have, um, uh, the guy who runs it, tom manual. He has a big band. They do it a first Thursday. Um, what's the name of the band? It's just a jazz loft big band. And then then on the third Thursday, richie Iacona, where Steve and I have been playing since 79, they do that you gotta tell Steve.
Speaker 2:I said hi, absolutely, I'll see him pretty soon. And then, um, the last Thursday, which is mostly the fourth Thursday, but sometimes, bringing on a month, could be the fifth Thursday, they have that band into play.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So, um, I'm a regular with Richie, and then you know, the other two bands have five saxophones. There's always somebody can make it. So you know, I play alto 10 a baritone so swing big bands? Yeah, yes, so um I I wound up doing, you know, most, most of those gigs um just by that's cool. And then on the second Thursday um, I played with the Steely Dan cover band.
Speaker 1:Oh, Steely Dan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, now it's called FM.
Speaker 1:FM. So that's okay. We don't know everybody in that band. Yeah, joel John.
Speaker 2:John Marshall's doing it too. Okay, john Marshall's, joel, I mean myself.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't realize Joel was doing it, yeah, and, and is it who's playing drums? Um, jim, jim, yeah, jim, yeah. Took my place in code blue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, and it's Sam playing bass on that, yep, yep, and I'm doing a gig with Sam in March, sam's very talented.
Speaker 2:He's a freak.
Speaker 1:What's he playing? He's playing bass, which is weird, right.
Speaker 2:Because that's his instrument. He plays everything. Yeah, Sam plays everything.
Speaker 1:I mean, uh, I'm on if you look up there you can see see the B still record.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I played.
Speaker 1:I did all the cuts on that. I played all the drums on that. You know, because his stuff is so, his writing is so for me it's playable as a drummer. Yeah, and on that record it's me and Sam. He played every instrument, sang every tune, and the only thing he didn't do is play drums. Yeah. So, sam, if you're listening yeah, I think I did.
Speaker 2:I did one recording from Sam for Sam, because he wanted to bury sex and he didn't have. He couldn't. He could play it but he didn't own one, so I wound up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're doing a gig with a guy named Alty Clacouris, a Cuba player, and we did run rehearsal already. Good, good band, yeah. And I feel the same way, like you know, and just think about this next, next time you're going to a gig and like, oh man, I don't want to go, you carrying one, what one sex I'm still carrying, how many I mean.
Speaker 2:So when I'm still carrying a list. No, no, no, no. And I would not do this now for anybody else but Richie. I had come. So, rich, if you ever listen, I love your man, but you're the only guy. I do this phone so I can. And, depending on what, what charts we're? You know he look, everybody reads off an iPad, so we get the set list ahead of time. Everybody.
Speaker 1:So sometimes you only have to bring a 10 or something.
Speaker 2:So most of the time with Richie it's multiple, many things. So in Richie's band I played a flute, the alto flute, clarinet, bass clarinet and baritone saxophone. Oh okay, it's a lot.
Speaker 1:So is that one trip from the car? That's three trips three trips in a car Still it's not. It can't be as bad as dropping Anybody who knows me, knows that I'm clicking my heels anytime.
Speaker 2:Uh, I can just do one, one, one trip, you know that's the worst part of it.
Speaker 1:I was moving junk, yeah, but you know, so you know.
Speaker 2:Somewhere along the line I've developed spinal stenosis which makes it tough to stand, like a four hour standing gig.
Speaker 1:Well, you don't stand on that gig.
Speaker 2:No, it's a sit down gig, but now when I play with these bands, even when I play with uppercut, you have to stand. I started bringing you know my own stool. Yeah, this guy's all brings tools, so I'm still waiting for the clever guy to come up with the punchline to like man walks into a bar and he brings his own stool, like. It sounds like a setup for a joke, but that's me, you know. It's funny is.
Speaker 1:I, I have a retractable stool in my car. Everybody does that. Now, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know. So you know. I mean, look it's as you get older. I mean I went to see the Funkville Hormonic you know, they just did a gig yeah. And um you know, there's Scott Pula.
Speaker 1:I had Scott Pula on the show. I know I listened to it.
Speaker 2:It's great, you know, and uh, but he wears glasses to read now.
Speaker 1:I know John, forever young, john Scott Pula. Yeah, yeah, he's like, uh, he's like um, oh, what's his name?
Speaker 2:Well, he still looks young, he looks great, yeah, yeah, but you know what I'm saying? He's Benjamin.
Speaker 1:Button. He's like reverse aging all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know I mean stuff changes. So you know I do that, um, but I, I mean I did a lot of theater. My, my wife, um, was a music director at theater three in Port Jeff, where I live, for 30 years, oh, wow. So you know we get the regular Broadway books in and, um, you know what I used to do? Because they couldn't hire a full pit, I would sit there like with the read books and like cover what you could condense it.
Speaker 2:Like you know well, in this number of guys got to play piccolo on this one he's got to play flute and and then like, distill it down to like two or three books.
Speaker 1:And um my friend Joel, um subbed on, or subs, I guess, on um what's the on Broadway thing now that the um Hamilton? Yeah, and he sent me a picture of where he sits and I got nervous just looking at it. It didn't even look like a like a drum set. There was like five screens, it was electronics, it just I got nervous just looking at where he had to sit and do that. You know it, just I cut, I couldn't do it. I know I couldn't do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's. It's a completely different thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's different.
Speaker 2:And I think part of that is the Broadway producers would like to acclimate the audience's ear to sound coming through a speaker as opposed to like acoustic, acoustic you know, and um. So now, yeah, they got. They got pits where people are off site and they're looking at the conductor on a monitor, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean I we took my kids to see a wicked and the questions from my tour musicians were where's the? Where's that sound coming from? It's coming from down in the. What do you mean? It's coming from down. They're playing that. How are they? What do you mean? You had no idea how it could buy some if they thought it was like a seat. You know like a seat. You know like a pre-recorded thing.
Speaker 2:But you know that that brings me back, you know, to like how I got into this whole thing as a kid we, we. I guess it was about 12 years old and it was a a field trip to see the sound of music on.
Speaker 2:Broadway and you know, come in with the class and you know we're walking by and before the show we're getting our seats. And I look down into the pit. I see guys and hear guys warming up and I'm like that's pretty cool and I was like I think I could do that. I think I could do that you know like and you know so I mean I really did enjoy that because you know part of the attraction to the whole music thing, just like making the sounds. Yeah, like I went to school you know.
Speaker 1:Play the flute, play the clarinet. I've heard it put really well lately. I went to school with, you know, my friend Joel Rosemont, and Dave Weckel, they were roommates.
Speaker 1:And I happened to watch an interview with Dave from like six years ago or something and and he said it. I mean he hit it right on. He said you know, it's talking about drums and all that stuff. You're like, oh, it's about drums. He goes listen, let's get this straight. I did not choose drums. The drums and music chose me. It didn't give me a choice. You know that and that's really true for a lot of us, right Like it's like a switch right.
Speaker 1:It turns you, it turns on and you can't turn it off. You know what I mean. If you do and you do something else, you have that life where you feel like you're not doing the thing you're supposed to be doing. You know, I mean most of my friends are. Are they like that switch is on and that's just it. That's just the way it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would have done anything if I hadn't met this guy in college who you know next thing I know I'm in local 802.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's. It's funny how that works out, because I wasn't going to be. I didn't start playing drums till I was 12. I wasn't in elementary school band, but you know what? The money was great.
Speaker 2:I just the thing In those days, like I chose to like live off the hotel grounds and give you a stipend for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I was making like 350 bucks a week which is a lot, which was a lot of money in those days, and it gets sucked in by that too. So yeah, I mean you like playing.
Speaker 2:But and then you know, there was the glamour. Yeah, Like you know backing up Jerry Lewis. You know a lot of great comedians and you know.
Speaker 2:You know people that you saw on television, you know, and there you are, like you know you're playing, playing behind. It was great, you know. And another thing you know, like Al we mentioned Longo before he used to contract the saxes for a Clim DeRoses band and Clim used to do over the summer Tuesday nights at Hecture Park in Huntington and it would be done in conjunction with the music performance trust fund and also, I think at that time A&S was in the like Huntington mall. They were sponsored and the Huntington town arts council, you know. So they would hire, you know, phil Woods you know, Clark Derry.
Speaker 2:You know big name acts and you know we'd back them up. So that's how I got to to meet Al. Well, al got more involved. You know he became the director of fine arts, a lot of things. So he he didn't want to do the contracting anymore so I became Clems contractor. I used to hire the rhythm section, the drummers, you know, and basses and the sax section and Mike Richardson. He would contract the trumpets and the trombones.
Speaker 1:That's cool. So who you know, right? I mean it's part of it, it's definitely part of it.
Speaker 2:So you know I mean for me I would always try and hire like the best people I can and like what's left to play, like I, if I couldn't get a, you know, an alto player, I'd play alto. If I couldn't get a great tenor, play tenning, you know, and I just like whatever it was.
Speaker 1:It's a good life.
Speaker 2:You had a good life there, jeff, it was fun A lot, a lot a lot of good time, you know, clem, we had some good, and so a long ago also, clem got a gig playing at the Copa Cabana when it was on whatever 63rd street in those days Not, it's on like the West side now, but it was the East side and you know, got to play with some some good people really good people there, and Al wanted to do the gig. He had the gig but he was busy during the week, so he used to do the weekends. I used to do the Copa during the week.
Speaker 2:So there would be like a paid rehearsal on Monday. You know whoever came in, you know Dakota State and Chris Conner, you know a lot of great, great entertainers would come through there, and then I would, I would do, you know, the gig during the week and then Al would come in, do it on the weekend and I would do club dates which actually paid me one more.
Speaker 1:So it was like a like a good thing. That's how club dates get you like a poison. That's how they rope you in.
Speaker 2:I kind of remember like 1982 being I was that's when I was doing it the Copa, and it was like I was making teaching at the Greenvale School, you know playing gigs and you know it was a good year because I was now working like weeknights not only you know, weekends, so that's a Feast of. Famine profession. You know I remember I got a new car, new washer and dryer.
Speaker 1:But I bought a, bought a.
Speaker 2:Selmer Barry.
Speaker 1:Sax. That's how I got sucked in. I regret some of that, because I always kind of went for the money and I I removed myself from from a whole part of music that I could have been more involved in. You know, because once you're when you're doing five gigs a weekend, people don't call you anymore you just they give you busy you know, yeah, and you are.
Speaker 2:And you know, look, I mean if you were doing those gigs in in 84, 85, djs weren't a thing, no, no, it was a different world.
Speaker 1:Everybody had an affair had a band Yep, so you know it was a, it was a different, different, it was more of a.
Speaker 2:you know, like you got a gig that paid 50 bucks more, You'd try and sell out that other gig and try and make an extra 50 bucks.
Speaker 1:My friend Bill Lanham. My friend Bill Lanham was doing Les Mis at the time and he used to sub out Les Mis to sub for me on a club date because it paid more.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And now in the nineties, whatever that was.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Absolutely. I mean, I used to do a lot of gigs.
Speaker 1:But it's combat pay. For sure you get paid more because it's combat pay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know I I don't know if the rule is still that way with on Broadway, but it used to be like a 51% attendance. You kept the seat.
Speaker 1:You kept the chair.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I had no idea and you could sub it out 49% of the time and I know, guys, that did that, they do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that literally liked to a penny.
Speaker 2:You know like exactly enough gigs. Right, you kept keep the gig.
Speaker 1:And yeah and then yeah, cause you know and look.
Speaker 2:I mean, there was a time in my life where I um, I felt like my self worth, you know like somebody call you. Can you do the gig and say no, I'm sorry, madam, I'm already working because, like as long as you were working, you felt like you, you know you were legit, you were like a real thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, you know. All right, so we've been talking for a while, jeff. Yeah, she's wrapped us up. That was, those are good. That was good stuff, man. I'm glad you, I'm glad you did this, man, it's, it's good.
Speaker 2:It's fun. I didn't know where we would uh.
Speaker 1:I didn't know who knows, who knows, you know yeah we we'd kind of shotgun that. Yeah, always.
Speaker 2:But that was, that was what it was. You know I mean a broad. You know it wasn't like I just did rock gigs. Yeah, you know, went from band to band. You know, did rock gigs, jazz gigs, big bang shows recordings. Like you know, went on the road, did hair on the road, cruise ship gigs Did it all, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right. So we gotta wrap it up. I want to thank my guest, jeff Lang. Thanks, jeff, I appreciate it. All right, man.