on DRUMS, with John Simeone
This is a local Long Island Podcast given by a veteran drummer on the Long Island music scene. We have a variety of local professional musicians as participants. We joke, give insights and share stories about our over 4 decades of experience in the music profession.
on DRUMS, with John Simeone
Broadway Beats and Drummer's Tales: A Heartbeat with Legend Billy Lanham
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As a young drummer, tapping rhythms on school desks and dreaming of the big stage, I never imagined I'd be trading stories with a Broadway legend like Bill Lanham. Yet, here we are in a heart-to-heart, delving into the thrills and spills of his career, from the electrifying beats of Les Misérables to the high-stakes world of live theatre drumming. Billy's family tapestry is woven with threads of classical piano and doo-wop vocals, a heritage that beats strong in his passion for rhythm and sets the stage for our conversation.
Picture yourself in the orchestra pit, lights dim, the audience hushed, and the conductor's baton about to fall. Billy takes us behind the scenes of this pressure-cooker environment, sharing the laugh-out-loud mishaps and nail-biting precision required when subbing for another musician. Meanwhile, he reflects on the bedrock role of a drummer—less about the solos and more about the soul, providing the groove that keeps the musical world spinning. It's a testament to the unseen heroes of the band, grounding flights of jazz solos and anchoring the soaring vocals of Broadway stars.
It's no secret that the music industry's rhythm has changed, skipping beats as seasoned artists navigate the torrent of new talent. Billy and I muse over the evolution from bustling wedding circuits to the intimacy of jazz trio jam sessions with Al Quinn and Dave Segal. These are the moments that define a musician's journey, where the craft transcends performance and becomes a shared heartbeat between artist and audience. So, slip on your headphones and prepare to be swept up in the rhythms of a life rich with music, as I sit down with Bill Lanham, a drummer whose story beats with the pulse of Broadway itself.
Alright, this is episode. I think this is episode 16, but I'm not sure. I have my friend Bill Adam here today. My name is John Simeone. This is on drums. I finally have a drummer on the show. I usually get, like you know, drum bone players and sax players and it's weird. I'm gonna think I'm gonna change the name. Anyway, my friend Bill Adam, who I haven't seen in I don't know 110 years, is on the show there. Say hi, billy.
Speaker 2Hello, hello, hello, Nice to see you, John Nice to thanks for the invite and thanks for having me.
Speaker 1It's so good to talk to you again, man.
Speaker 2You know, nice to talk to you as well, too Nice to see you.
Speaker 1You know, I wanted you to have you on here because you got you have a very extensive resume, right. I mean you've done a lot of things, a lot of drumming things, you know I mean I guess, yeah, I mean you. Well, you, I mean you know, the the biggest one was Les Mis. Right, that was the your mainstay.
Speaker 2Yeah, I've done. I've done a bunch of Broadway stuff. That's been like the soul one of the major things that I've done. So yeah, I did the original run of Les Mis. I actually went on the first national tour.
Speaker 2I actually started subbing on the original production of Les Misarab and then that led to the first national tour and then, when the about four, maybe three, four years into the run of the original Les Mis, another show was opening called Miss Saigon, and the drummer and the percussionist who were doing the original Les Mis got asked to do Miss Saigon. So that left an opening in the Broadway chair of Les Misarab. I was on the national tour which was winding down and you got the seat man, you got the seat.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think I, you know, got very fortunate and got that seat. It was funny because I was about to make a call to let them know that I was interested and then, like I don't know, maybe a couple of days before, they're like oh hey, listen, you know, I wanted to ask you would you be interested.
Speaker 1I was like you would be the logical choice for that seat.
Speaker 2Well, you know because I've been on the other side of this as well too. You would say maybe I would be the logical choice because I know the music and I'm on the national tour. Yeah, however, every Broadway chair there are subs, people who sub on the show, and they sub there regularly, you know. So those guys are hopeful that they would maybe get the chair as well too. But the Les Mis thing worked out for me Great. You know, I was on the other side of that one time where a chair was open and I was being considered and you know, the guy from the national tour got it, which, hey, you know that he put in his time and he knew the music and that's where they went, you know. So I've been on, been on both sides of that decision.
Speaker 1You got that gig, so let's just take me back. Billy. Now I don't know. I think we met in the 80s.
Speaker 2Yeah, we met probably in the 1980s. Yeah, I want to say like around 83, 84.
Speaker 1Right.
Speaker 2You know we had that thing, with Nick Amprisino.
Speaker 1That's when I was just graduating college and that's right. So you and you sub for me and I want your gigs. Remember doing that.
Speaker 2Like yes, you recommended yeah. I think that may be how it, how we initially kind of hooked up because Nick, I think, recommended me to you because you had some club dates with Dave Farron Dave Farron, that's that's the date Dave Farron and his band and you couldn't make them and you recommended me and you had me sub and that was kind of like that was kind of my, that was my introduction into club dates.
Speaker 1Basically, you know, I don't even know how I got friendly, because I'm not friendly with any drummers really, because all my friends are play other instruments, because you're on gigs all the time with these guys, right.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's always a tough thing.
Speaker 1Yeah, my only friends who are drummers or guys that, like I did other things with you know. So it's weird how you and I like still like our friends somehow.
Speaker 2It's funny, I've been playing in a in a club date band for the last like 15 years and we've, you know, thankfully we've been fairly busy.
Speaker 1Now you're doing club dates. You still don't club dates, because that's.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, this is, this is actually this come this year, coming up as the first year, our band doesn't have any bookings and we're kind of like that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1Everybody's dying with club dates we went um.
Speaker 2when we first started we were doing at the time we were doing about 30, 40 gigs a year and then every year, just kind of like slowly, slowly, slowly dwindled. Anyway, what I was going to say is that, um, the guys who have sucked from me other than one person, uh, wait, other than two people, one who, which you know, brian Dunn. Brian was on the show. Yes, yeah, I saw your. I saw your link for that.
Speaker 2I didn't get a chance to listen to that one. But other than Brian, all my other subs I've never, never met them. Never met them personally because they came highly recommended from like Ryan or other guys. Like another guy, clayton Craddock I don't know if you know Clayton. No, no, clayton Craddock, he, um, he, um, uh. He turned me on to this this band and um, uh, yeah, other than him, that's so funny. I've never met and somebody I've, you know, given the guys like bunch of, bunch of work.
Speaker 2Oh I can't do this. You want to do this one. You know, especially when I, especially when I was doing a Broadway show, sometimes I wouldn't sub out because it didn't pay.
Speaker 1Why is it? That's what's weird about this, this industry. Right, it's like yeah, I know Bill Adam, but I've never met him before.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's so weird.
Speaker 1What other business has that going on you?
Speaker 2know what I mean? Right, right, yeah, cause we don't drummers, don't, drummers, don't, unless we're the doobie brothers or horn players hang out together because they're on the same stage. Most of the time you know and and rhythm section guys.
Speaker 1I guess you know drummers like it's only one, it's only unless you're in a doobie brothers trippie band hanging out with with some other guys, you know.
Speaker 2Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1So you know what Billy give me, give me, like, how do I start for you? Cause, like you know, I mean obviously like the middle school or high school or something you when did you become a drummer?
Speaker 2Like when did?
Speaker 1you want to do this forever.
Speaker 2When did I want to do this?
Speaker 1Well, did you want to do forever?
Musical Family and Broadway Drumming
Speaker 2Let's say, let's say when did I want to do this? And then we'll get into the forever, forever. So growing up in my house, mom was a classically trained pianist.
Speaker 1I think I remember this yeah.
Speaker 2But made most of her living as a school teacher, elementary school teacher for most for all of her life. Smart, but she still played classical piano, you know, and that was her thing.
Speaker 1Did she teach music?
Speaker 2Oh no, she didn't teach, she taught. She taught elementary ed. She's taught mostly second, third grade, fourth grade. She's taught junior high school English for a little bit, but mostly elementary ed. And her father was a jazz trumpet player. So that, so on mom's side there was some musical genes, on dad's side Dad was a singer. Do up singer.
Speaker 1Oh, so you have it all over the place.
Speaker 2And his oldest brother was a jazz piano player who played a little bit with Art Blakey.
Speaker 1So basically, you didn't have a choice, you just yeah it was kind of in the blood.
Speaker 2You know, it's kind of in the blood. So I my first instrument that I started out formally was piano. I took piano lessons and took piano lessons like maybe third grade into fourth grade. When I got into fourth grade I went to Lyndon Hurst public schools. That's when you got a chance to pick an instrument that if you wanted to play, and we went through a couple because mom's dad was a trumpet player, so always you want to play trumpet, dad was like, oh, maybe play the sax. And then I had an older cousin who was a drummer and every time I went over his house I always I was hearing him play. Oh, I said, oh, man, I want to go out and play on Doug's drum set. I want to see, you know. So that always impressed me and then I kind of just gravitated towards that.
Speaker 2And then, you know, started playing in the elementary school, taking lessons. Mom and dad, though, didn't buy me drums until. So fourth grade, um school, fifth grade in school, all through sixth grade in school. And summer of when I was in sixth grade, do you remember the bylines? I do, the newspaper, yeah, remember the newspaper, the violence.
Speaker 1That's what you got.
Speaker 2So all that's where I got my drums from, got my drums from the bylines. I remember the ad. It was um, what was it? You remember the ad? I remember the ad. It was oh wait, was it? Three piece drum set $80. $80. Bass snare, one mounted time. Yeah and oh, and one symbol. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, a symbol, and no, I have your hats.
Speaker 2You pay your hats. Okay, yep, $80. And so moms, my mom and dad, were like not sure you're gonna keep on with this. Yep, yep, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna keep on with it. So so they bought me that and I have a picture in my garage me on that drum set and I still have the snare drum. It was like an aluminum snare drum. The name of the drum company was called Prestige, prestige, prestige.
Speaker 1You know, you know what's funny about what you just said about the snare drum? There's a story with Weckl he when he was when, when, when he left school, when he was living in Mount Vernon, joel and I would go to his house a lot and he he, one of his neighbors in Mount Vernon had found out he was a drummer. At the time he wasn't that popular, I guess. And he said hey, I got this drum in my attic and it was Kent this snare drum, kent.
Speaker 1I remember it, kent, you remember that name, so he gave Dave the Kent snare drum and they've used it on a couple of records. And then all of a sudden, everybody wanted Kent snare drum.
Speaker 2You couldn't buy any more. They were just. You know they were just. You know they were just. You know they were just jump. Somebody was near the existence.
Speaker 1Right, it's like the same ideas, like if you, if you made that that name popular, it becomes like a popular drum. You know it's crazy. So, um, I it's funny because similar I had a similar thing with drums. You know I didn't. My parents didn't have a lot of money, that's the you know. They couldn't just buy drum set. So they did what you're you're saying they bought part of a drum set and then every year for my birthday I'd get something else.
Speaker 2So it took like 11 years to get a full to get a five piece right and two symbols, like when I was in college.
Speaker 1I was like this is ridiculous, man. I gotta be able to buy a symbol, like in a different month than my birthday, that's ridiculous. But that's what. That's the way it was, man.
Speaker 2Yeah, hey, they wanted to make sure. We both probably came from parents who were grew up like the depression age and they're like you know, hey, we don't waste money, you know, you know, if you're going to do this, you know they've spent money on food, and that was it.
Speaker 1You know that was it? That was it, yeah, so then, you went to what school after you graduated high school?
Speaker 2uh, graduate Lyndon Hurst high school. Then I went to CW, post L I U as a computer science major and music minor, even though my heart was more into music I was, I was into I. I joined the computer club when I was a senior in high school and I was like, oh wow, this is fun. You know, I think I'll check this out, you know. So that was like that was my major, even though I was, I was always up at the music department.
Speaker 2You know, I was in the jazz band, I was in the chorus, I was in the chamber singers, I was in the concert band. I, you know, I did everything, you know. But then I also started taking lessons with, privately, with a few people in school which gravitated towards. I ended up taking some lessons from some Broadway guys. One guy in particular, Michael Hinton, who, um, he was a drummer percussionist on Broadway and he got me in to go sit in in pits um, on Broadway and I started meeting guys. And then, long story short, michael um was the first one who had me sub for him. Um, I subbed on percussion for him, uh, for an Andrew Lloyd Webber show called song and dance.
Speaker 2I believe it was October of 87.
Speaker 1I think I subbed him.
Speaker 2It was. It was funny because I subbed for him, I did a good job. I mean, I was really really scared and I was doing, I was, I did so much homework, I did, I did well. And they said, and he and he said, yeah, I'm, you know, you know they want to have you back. And then, like a couple of days later I heard from, oh, the show is closing next week. I'm like, oh man, so. And then, and then fast forward, michael ended up getting the gig with the Les Mis Um and I subbed for him on there and then that kind of snowballed my introduction into the Broadway world.
Speaker 1So so let me, let me get your opinion on uh, because you're the only guy I've had so far who's primarily done shows. You know, like most drummers are playing I mean not most drummers, but everybody else I've had is like gigs. You know, just gigs, whatever kind of gigs aren't be, they're doing jazz, they're doing club dates, whatever they're doing, and and you know I did uh, some guys, most most guys, accomplished, you know, made a living doing this and so you're, but you're from what? What's your, what's your view on the whole, like the show route as far as drumming goes?
Speaker 2It's a different thing. Right, it's a different thing, but it's also you know what, john? Let me just close this blind here real quick. Yeah, it's a different thing, uh, different, and it's. Things have changed a lot, even since when I started. Um, you have to be versatile. You have to know how to play. I mean, you know, you think Broadway, and actually many people used to think Broadway. You think, oh, I'm going to play a two beat boom, chick, boom, chick, boom, chick all night long and swing to teach, teach, teach, teach. You know now, um, even even going back, things have have progressed a lot. You know, um, things are more contemporary now. Uh, you have to know. And even even back when I first started, you have to know styles. You have to know how to play Latin, how to play a boss, uh, how to play a song but you have to follow conductor how to uh, and yet, yeah, you know, I get into that boom chick, boom chick, two beat.
Speaker 2I mean, you got to know your styles, Um, you got to know your R&B, you got to know, you know, you got to know how to play a little hip hop thing, you know. And and then, as you said, you have to know how to follow a conductor. And nowadays, and and going this goes back to like even late, late nineties, um, mid nineties, you got to be able to play with a click.
Speaker 1A lot of shows now on click you know how does that work with a click, who's who's who's a click coming from the click.
Speaker 2So I'll give you a couple of scenarios that I've um, encountered um, and that I've that I've played with Uh. One of the shows I subbed on a lot when it was running Um, and I think Joel subbed on this show too is is is Mamma Mia. So Mamma Mia is all abattoons, it's all pop rock kind of stuff. You know Um and the click was generated by the drummer, the. The uh, the click was hooked up to an R8, uh M drum module with a pad. So the conductor would go like this one, two, three, and then when she gave the one, two, three, four was click, click, boom. The band's in every everybody in the band. Here's the click and everybody knows where to start.
Speaker 2So, you're all playing to the click. Yeah, and, and it's on some tunes. It was just this, just got a head nod.
Speaker 1He just saw it as it.
Speaker 2You had your you had your stick. If it was it was, it was a tune where you were probably playing eighth note, high hat, you know, uh groove. So you had one stick on the hat, one stick on the click pad and you were just looking for boom.
Speaker 1So then you can't, you. There's no room for for error here. You can't, no, no, you got to be like dead on.
Speaker 2You got to be dead on.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, so you know, because we went to see. Um, I took my family to see. Well, I can't remember the name, but wicked, oh yeah. And um, my kids are, are they're? I have twins who were 11. And if? They're aware, you know they're like uh musical and my daughter's asking where is the music coming from? I said no, it's coming from underneath the stage of pit there. I was trying to explain it she was like what do?
Speaker 1you. What do you mean? I said there's people down there, this, the musicians down. So what do you mean? There's people down, there's people with instruments and they're watching the guy and she couldn't not get the concept. It's that because it sounded like what canned music. It sounded like it was just coming off for, for you know, an mp3 or something. It didn't you know, I mean, the mix was so good, and so you know precise that she couldn't grasp the concept you know the of that of a pit orchestra following the conductor you know.
Speaker 2So it's funny you mentioned Wicked because I subbed there for the first four years that it opened and then again later on, and I'm in the process of probably possibly going back through the sub.
Speaker 1Oh cool, that's what's uh. Who's on it now? I talked to him um.
Broadway Show Pit Subbing Experiences
Speaker 2Matt Vanderen. Matt, yeah, yeah, yeah, so, um, um. So, in terms of click, there's some, there's some tunes on there on click there's some that aren't, aren't.
Speaker 1For Wicked, you mean, or in general.
Speaker 2For Wicked, for Wicked, yeah, and then stylistically that's a show. You gotta know how to play a reggae groove. I noticed that you gotta know how to play like a slow 16. Bobby Caldwell, what you won't do for Love Groove, that's right. You gotta know how to. You know, you gotta know how to lay some like Steve Smith journey stuff down. I mean it's really like stylistically all over the place there's like a little tune with little Steve Gad Caldwell thing. I mean there's like there's a bunch of stuff in there.
Speaker 1I almost missed part of this to show, because all that was listening to was that. I was listening to the drums and like and I was thinking exactly what you're saying right now. I was like, wow, this is like covering the gamut of like the stuff that I'm aware of as far as a drummer goes. You know what I mean. It's something else, it really is.
Speaker 1I mean it's something to be noted. You know like it's. We all think music is just like this creative thing. You go on a gig and then you get inspired to play, but this is not it is. It's the summing stuff, I think. But this is just something that's gotta be very precise, right, you can't mess up right, yeah, no, yeah, no, you can't.
Speaker 2I mean it happens. I mean we've all fallen into holes before it's like oh man, you know but yeah, I mean you try to keep those as minimal as possible. You know Steve Greenfield. You know Steve Greenfield. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1Steve. I did a million gigs with Steve and he told me a funny story on a gig where they were doing a show. I'll try to condense this story. They were doing a show and there was subs on the gig and the sub would go grab the book off wherever the books were and go sit in the pit. You know they'd like you say you call subs. He said there was one in this particular show. The books changed keys according to who was the lead.
Speaker 2Oh yes, so the sub came in and grabbed the book. They grabbed the wrong book, wrong book.
Speaker 1And it happened to be a cello player and one of the leads, one of the tunes in whatever show this was started with cello. So the sub starts playing the cello part and then the lead actor starts singing with the cello in that key he goes and then the orchestra comes in. I have to step away, because then the conductor had to stop the pit and say half a step lower. And then they go step lower from what? From where we?
Speaker 2were Everybody's transposing as their sight reading. Oh man.
Speaker 1You got any funny stories like that, anything weird happening in the pit.
Speaker 2Oh wow, anything you want to share? Yeah, I'm trying to think.
Speaker 1I mean, I guess that had to be bad news, whoever was playing on that thing, I'll put my yeah.
Speaker 2I mean this is not a big, it was funny when it happened. So the last Broadway show I did that I was that was my chair was earlier last 2023. It ran from like March to June of 2023. It's called Bad Cinderella. It was an Android Web show and it didn't. Unfortunately, it didn't do well and closed in like three months.
Speaker 1Anyway, at the top, by the way, how often does that happen? How often does the show come up? You play for a couple months and it closes. Is that a big thing? I mean, does that happen? Oh, it does it happens more than. People realize probably.
Speaker 2Than people realize. Yeah, because it costs a lot for a Broadway show to run every week and if it doesn't do well in terms of ticket sales, I mean you have people investing money in this. If the producers can't pay back their investors, they just close it, because then the producers are the ones shelling out the money.
Speaker 1It's like spring time for Hitler, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2So anyway, top of the show was a big symbol crash. It was kind of like the conductor would go shh and she. One night she gave a big prep for the and I saw the big prep and I was just like and I went shh. Oh, so you, it's funny, I came in like a bar, not a bar. I came in like a beat early with the symbol crash and her face. She just went like yeah, and then she started laughing. It was hilarious. Everybody, everybody, everybody was like it was See, that's a pressure man.
Speaker 1I don't know if I could deal with that pressure. It's like that's pressure.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's pressure. You know when you're doing the show, when it's your show, you get a lot, a lot of rehearsal, so you get a chance to really fine tune what do you mean If it's a show?
Speaker 1if it's a show, that's, I mean if it's a new show.
Speaker 2If it's a new show, yeah, there's a lot of rehearsal process that goes into.
Speaker 1But if it's a show that's running, you have to. You got to like.
Speaker 2If it's a show that's running and you're a sub, that's that's a lot of pressure, Because you, as a sub, most likely won't get a full rehearsal. I've been on shows before as a sub. I've subbed, where maybe the two hours before my first show, the musical director will get together with you and we'll run through some stuff. Oh, let's run through this tune or let's run through this segment. This is how I do this, which is great. You know another show I subbed on. They actually gave you a paid rehearsal but it was only for an hour and you ran through like bits and pieces of of of tunes, which was, you know, hey, as a sub, you take any right. Anything you take as terms of in terms of rehearsal is great.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2So but yeah, as a sub it's a little bit more scary. You have to, you have you're walking into. You're walking into a moving or you're walking onto a moving train.
Speaker 1Right, I remember you saying to me man, I just think I remember this, billy you, you said you know you should come learn. Come sub from me on layman, just you know, come into the pit come sit in the pit.
Speaker 1And you said to me you know? I said what? What do you mean? Come sit in the pit. You said come sit in the pit. You know, you just have to just learn the book and watch the conductor. It's not that bad. I was like what are you talking about? Like it's like man, I have to just well just watch the conductor. You know it's after a while, yeah, after like 600 times maybe. But like I remember I didn't do it because I was like so spooked by the idea. I just wasn't used to the idea, you know.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, that's that's that's. It's funny. I, I, I isn't. I feel old now because I'm doing this for a little bit. When we, when I first got into subbing, you know that's what you did and you still do. You go in and you watch the regular guy play. You get a chance to watch the conductor, which is great Nowadays, since so many things are done via video, like sometimes musicians won't be in the pit, they'll be in a different room in the theater, right. So there's a. So there's a video monitor that has the conductor on it. So over the years, players have gotten smart. They've made video of the conductor and shared it with their subs.
Speaker 1Oh, that's a good.
Speaker 2So now, a lot of times you can go in and watch a show Great, I saw the drummer play, I saw the conductor, I saw this. Oh, let me send you the, let me send you the video of the conductor as well, so you can be at home, work with the video and then help learn the music. Because back when I started it was like, okay, I go in and I watch, I do my homework at home, I'm going and watching the second time. Oh, this is how he does this little part here. Okay, I got it. I got it. Okay, go back home work on some. Oh, let me come in and watch again. Oh, is this how we did? Okay, I got to watch this part, this part, you know, third time, and you know you're a drummer, you're kind of the one holding the ground.
Speaker 2It's a big deal. Fourth time, go back and watch again. Oh, I got this. Fifth time. Yeah, okay, I got this. Okay, I think I'm ready to play Right, as opposed to and I'm not I'm not um, putting them in in any other or diminishing their role as well, but if, let's say, you're a string player and you're playing in a string section with six other people, maybe the amount of times you go to watch is maybe twice, right?
Speaker 2Because as opposed to a rhythm section player, bass player or keyboardist or the drummer you're going to watch. At least you know three, four times before you play the show.
Speaker 1If there was, you know, three other drummers there, you have less chance of getting, like you know, off track or or or being noticed.
Speaker 1I guess you know you know um, my friend Joel, who was in Blatt sub dawn Um, didn't he sit by my mama? Yeah, I think he did, but he did I. He did a bunch of shows, but he did Hamilton too, okay, and he sent me a picture of the set, his setup in the pit. Oh yeah, wherever he was it didn't look like a pit, it looked like I don't know like look, look like a drum shop, like a prison cell.
Speaker 1And and I got. He sent me this picture and I got nervous just looking at it. I mean, it was like it looked like something from from a space Odyssey or something Like I don't even know where he was sitting in that room and how he could reach all the all the stuff in there. It was like just scary to look at for me, you know. But then, hey, that's me, I don't know, I get nervous.
Speaker 2You know I get it though.
Speaker 1Yeah. So let me ask you this what the you know if you listen to some of these podcasts that I do? The the first one I do is with Frank Nostro. You know Frank Frank, who Nostro?
Speaker 1drum is a drummer, okay so. So Frank and I are like sympatico with a lot of drummer stuff. You know like, yeah, these, you like think a lot of like what's your opinion on? Like what's going on Like modern day stuff right now as far as drummers go like, I mean I'm not sure if I'm putting this right I, what the like me personally as an older drummer, that's what I feel like. I'm like an older decrepit, you know wanting to put in the grave drummer we grew up a different way.
Speaker 1We grew up a certain way, Having to not the resources drummers have today. Right, we had, you know, we had Walkman's with speed control on them.
Speaker 2Nobody knows what that is anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 1Um, but I'm feeling like there's a lot of now. This is just me. I feel like a drummers drummers not all drummers. Some drummers today are concentrating on the wrong stuff, like they're putting the cart before the horse in terms of what they work on. You know what?
Speaker 2I mean Like specifically.
Speaker 1I mean, like you know, like I don't know, like grooving in a band seems to be secondary these days.
Speaker 2So it's interesting you're talking about this. Um, have you, have you listened to any of a mere quest love Thompson's podcast.
Speaker 1No. Um any podcast, even my own decision.
Role of Drummers in Music
Speaker 2So quest love has, um has a podcast, and you know quest love from the, from the roots, the drum, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he has a podcast and I, yeah, I encourage you, um, you'll love it, you'll. You'll find episodes on there that are great. He's interviewed some really, really great people, um, so, and some some drummers some, some just musicians, some even politicians, just really really cool.
Speaker 2Wow. Anyway, when he talks to drummers, he his question is always this you know, what do you think about gospel chops? We think about gospel chops. Yeah, this guy's always playing, he plays, and all he says is gospel chops, gospel chops, you know, and totally not putting gospel drummers down because they are ridiculous. Some of those guys, like I, could never play that way and the stuff they play is just serious. It's funny, though.
Speaker 1It is funny, though, how they, they all play. That's the kind of very the same way, right, I mean they're grooving in there somewhere, but it's like what it's like it's like a thunder.
Speaker 2I mean it's like I don't know what it is Sounds like exploding drums sometimes. I mean, I can do it for sure, right, you know so technically it's a marvel, but yes.
Speaker 2Yeah, so so, to answer your initial question, yeah, you know, some people are putting the cart before the horse, I think you know, and you know, you know, we both grew up kind of around the same era. You know Jeff Piccaro, steve Gadd, Carlos Vega, you know guys who could play, you know, and they have chops. But the thing was, how does it feel, you know? How does it groove?
Speaker 1You know, I feel, like that's not a thing anymore. So much I think you could. You're, you're more again. This is like me being like a cranky person. I think that like you're more apt or you're more likely to get a gig if this flashy stick thrown up in the air and soloing shot you know stuff like that Then if you actually groove with a band right, I mean, I've seen a lot of that.
Speaker 1It's like I've you know. I see guys on YouTube, not YouTube on Facebook. They post every second of every gig they play. I mean, and it's like a weird angle, with the cameras pointed at their left hand, and what? Is this about. You know it's. To me it's like missing the point. You know what?
Speaker 2I mean it's like.
Speaker 1It's like I feel like there's a generation that's. That's kind of missing the point. We all will draw into this for some weird. I remember it was like being, being like a spell was put on me, right, you too, probably. Like you were like whoa, it's like a drug, like what is this man? It may, it went through you. You know, I'm trying to explain this stuff to non musicians Like it's not, it's not a career choice. You choose as you, the career chooses you, and you don't know why. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1So you, you're kind of sucked into this life and it's what satisfies you. But other people who don't have that don't really get that, you know, and I think some drummers don't get it either yeah, no, you're right, you're right, it's like you know. I mean, I think your job is it really is to make the band feel good. That's what I think, oh yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2I mean I.
Speaker 1I mean I'm just hyper critical of that. Like I hear stuff, I'm like man, I listen to stuff and I say in my mind I don't say it out loud, sometimes I say it a lot but I say in my mind, man, that is void of groove.
Speaker 2That is just doing nothing.
Speaker 1And then I hear stuff and I'm like it's the opposite. It's like wow, that's that guy's hardly doing anything and it is just killing.
Speaker 2Yeah, one of the nicest compliments I've gotten, that I'll always remember from someone, from another musician actually it was from a conductor which was even even greater. He came up to me Actually it was about, it was about a year ago. He said man. He said, man, I really enjoy having you in the band, you know, because you, just, you know, I love your playing. But you just give us like a gift all for all of us to kind of float on and see that's, that's just.
Speaker 1I was like but that is the ultimate compliment, right? I mean, that's that's where it's music Cause to me like music is it's hard to explain this against the non musicians. It's not a thing like being an accountant, right?
Speaker 1It's a feeling right, it's something that moves you, that's what's inside you and this is why it's like an upset. Billy, I'll tell you honestly like it's. Like you know, I have kids and yet when you have kids, you have a certain feeling about the kids right, cause they're, they're from you, basically right. So I feel the same about music.
Speaker 1Like I get on gigs sometimes and these guys like torturing the music and I get insulted by that, like, whether or not they mean it, you know what I mean Like, oh please, man, if you, if you are a dentist during the week and you just play on the weekends, please don't have me on your gig.
Speaker 2You know like I can't.
Speaker 1I can't, I just I. It's gotten like I'm as I get older, I get worse, I'm getting worse.
Speaker 2I really am.
Speaker 1You know what I mean Like this is why I'm doing the podcast. It's like voice my opinion on all this, so you sort of agree with me, right? It's for a drummer from.
Speaker 2a drummer's role is to is the kind of like, yeah, you got to give, you got to give support. You're the foundation. You know you look at a house. You know house has a Solid foundation that it sits on. You know that's you, that's your job, that's your role.
Speaker 2You know you get a chance every now and then to throw a little something in there, do a little flashy something, stick, twirl, or you know 32nd, run down the toms or something like that. A simple crash that Is over the bar and ends on the of one or something like that. You know great, yeah, but you know Whether it's whether you're playing group, whether you're playing the straight groove, whether you're playing something in odd time, you know it's got a feel, feel right. It's funny. I was listening to an interview with Simon Phillips Couple months back and he said you know the way I approach odd time, you know, is I just try to think of. It is like, if it's in four, you know, and I wanted to feel that way, even though it, you know, maybe in 17 or 13 or whatever, it's got a feel you know he means to me.
Speaker 1he means make it flow as naturally as forward flow, I guess.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah that's a cool.
Speaker 1That's a cool thing to say.
Music Industry Challenges and Changes
Speaker 1I like that idea that you know, yeah, yeah. So I mean at this, you know, this is, this is the thing that's on my mind constantly, like I hear cuz I, I guess, cuz we're Exposed to so much lately, you know you, every person who wants to be a musician can just be a musician. You know you, if you want to be a guitar player, you buy guitar. He said I'm a guitar player, you know, I mean, there's no, you know there's, there's no restraints on that. This it's, it's. It's bizarre how music is like, open to everybody, like anybody, that you know, the most of the guys who are Musicians, real musicians, are getting kicked out of places by people who will play for 20 bucks because they just, yeah, you know they don't really care.
Speaker 1You know, I mean, and that's I think that's like. I see that a lot lately a lot of my friends you know out of work or Just know where to go because, yeah, the club owners Nobody cares.
Speaker 2It's like you know, yeah, I mean, opportunities now aren't what they used to be when we were younger.
Speaker 1I mean, they've just gotten less.
Speaker 2You know, even even in the club, they feel like I've been, I've been, like I said, I've been with this club. They've been now for like 15 years and Places, just you know, places are closing down like places on Long Island, I know catering halls.
Speaker 1It's like you know some of them Should be closed down. I mean Bulldozed, you know.
Speaker 2But um, I did it for a long time.
Speaker 1I did it, man. I did it up until about Eight years ago. I stopped doing it eight years ago now. Even you know, the busiest bands are not doing what they were doing. You know, it's such a different scene now. Yeah, and the problem with that is especially on Long Island is, you know, like I got kind of pigeonholed. You know, when you're doing 120 gigs a year of weddings, you people don't call you for other gigs.
Speaker 1You know, yeah, so when you stop doing them you're sort of out of that loop. Do you know um? I Tell the story every podcast. You know Terry Negrelly? He's a trombone player that name is familiar. Yeah, so I work in a band with Terry now and he stands right next to me, so he leans over and whispers in my ears.
Speaker 1Sometimes, but he did the podcast and he's the funniest thing he said and I always repeated. He said this four stages of a musician's life and the first stage. I'm gonna use your name, for example. The first stage is who's Bill Lanham? And the second stage is we got to get Bill Lanham? The third stages we need a young Bill Lanham at. The fourth stage is who's Bill Lanham?
Speaker 2You go through the cycle. I'm getting towards that, towards that end.
Speaker 1I'm definitely not last. I'm in the last part of it, man. Yeah, so what else it got man? What else you want to share like?
Speaker 2um well, you asked me a little bit about the Broadway thing. Thankfully, I'm not even sure I shared this.
Speaker 1Are you doing it? You're still doing it, right.
Speaker 2Yeah, still, yeah, still doing the Broadway thing, not as much as I would like to be doing it, because, you know, things changed. It's like this the story you just said you know, let's get, you know, right, oh, let's get the level, let's get a young bill. And then, you know, now I'm kind of, yeah, getting towards that other part, you know. So, anyway, last, it's funny the first Broadway show that was my chair. I was one of the youngest.
Speaker 1Yeah, in the band.
Speaker 2I think I was 28. My last Broadway show that I did was last, which was last year I was. Was I the oldest in? The band I either I was the oldest or second oldest in the band right, and I remember those days, man, I would.
Speaker 2I had a, I was the in-house contractor so I was responsible for payroll and dealing with with, with people's problems and all that stuff. And the young flute player, bless her heart, who was on the gig, she came up to me I could pull her aside one time. I said, hey, I'd like to talk to you about something. She goes okay, okay, okay, yes, sir, yes, sir, please, please don't call me sir, please don't call me sir. Oh, yeah, so anyway. But now what I was gonna say Some of the other stuff I've done over the years is I had a friend who was Earth, a kid's drummer, and he used to play also with the Count Basie big band and when he would go on the road with Count Basie he would call me to sub with earth. So I've done a bunch of gigs with I dive. I did a bunch of gigs with earth, a kit, for many years and that was a lot of fun. Yeah, she was a doll sweetheart to work, to work with. Also, you do you remember Leslie Gore? It's my party. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2I ended up doing a bunch of gigs with her late 90s into the early 2000s. I did a, I did a stint with her, so that was fun. And then I've done a bunch of singer-songwriter stuff over the years.
Speaker 1You got a set up in your house. You got a recording set up in your house.
Speaker 2I do, I have. I have a set of drums in my, in my basement, yep and mics and stuff like that. So I Do and have done a lot of, you know, home recording stuff. Some you know people send you tracks or whatever and I want some drums on or I want some percussion on it. So I've, I've done my fair share of that and Still do it and so what?
Speaker 1what is your like right now? What's your kind of your main, your mainstay, as far as like income? I'm from drumming. What are you doing?
Speaker 2Right now just freelancing a little bit. Like I said, I'm trying to learn the the drum book again, or relearn the drum book at wicket, doing some doing I have a Couple private students I do and then you know, hopefully gonna get another show soon, yeah, and then you know just freelancing.
Speaker 1Is Matt leaving the wicked Matt?
Speaker 2No he's not leaving, no, he just. You know, just sub yeah, just I just called him to see if he, if he had any openings for subs, and when I first called him he didn't. But now he he. It looks like he says he may have some room.
Speaker 1So yeah, so we're supposed to come on the show, but you know he lives in the city, so, yeah, and he's doing five. I think doing five nights a week right with wicked, isn't it every night?
Speaker 2Yeah, well, they they're a night off. I believe is. Is man so? Broadway schedules eight shows a week. They're on Tuesday through Sunday, so they're night off is Monday.
Speaker 1Yeah, so what do they do? Doubles on Saturday and Sunday their schedule.
Speaker 2They do doubles on Saturday and Sunday. Yes, that they're one of the few shows that do that. Because they can. They can afford to do that. That Because a Sunday night show on Broadway pays time and a half for the musicians and the stage hands.
Speaker 2Oh so it's uh, yeah, so unless your show is making money, You're not gonna get that. You know so, and that's a show that A lot of regulars if you're a regular on a show, you don't sub out because that's you know you get extra, extra cash. So I remember I was doing, I did the cats revival and um Four or five years ago and there was a portion of that run where we had a, we had a, we had a Sunday night show. So that was. That was one show I usually tried not to miss.
Speaker 1It's funny how that's like the price stuff out like that, like somehow Saturdays are more valuable than a person's Tuesday night. You know, like it's so weird, like it's always it's just a way. You know, even with club day, with any gig, you know like Saturdays and Sundays always paid more than Fridays, or you know. You know, it was very weird the way that worked out. You know, yeah, like who ever thought of that?
Speaker 2I mean uh, probably somebody, probably some union. Yeah, you know yeah, you know, because if, especially if it's a Broadway thing, they, you know, they worked it out through you gotta have to be the in-unit for Broadway, right, you get it, yes.
Speaker 2Broadway is union. All Broadway shows are union. Most Off-Broadway shows are union, depending on which theater you're working at, um, some of the off off Broadway shows are not, you know, and then there are some theaters, um, that are not on Broadway that are union as a matter of fact, um, there's a some on Long Island that that are union. I actually, in um 2021, I was the hiring contractor for a theater in elmont that was union and it lasted. Unfortunately, the um, it only lasted for a year. But um, yeah, but yeah, so you can find union gigs, you know, outside of Broadway, you know, and there are some theaters. There's a big, there's a big, um, musical theater in, uh, what's it? Called Milburn, new jersey, called the paper mill playhouse, and they're a union theater. So, um, yeah, so there's, you know, lots of union theaters.
Speaker 1That's cool, man, different places, so good.
Speaker 2So you're doing it, man, You're you're, you're in the thick of it now I'm trying you like.
Speaker 1Good for you. I mean, I'm glad you are, because I you know, I always know you, you know to be a good musician and you know.
Speaker 2No thanks, man. You too, man. We always had fun playing with you in the band. We did the uh what?
Speaker 1street life. Oh my god, yeah, gee, yeah, that was like.
Speaker 2That was fun man.
Speaker 1That I'm telling you. That's the. That was like 1986.
Speaker 2Or something, yeah, oh yeah, that's unbelievable.
Speaker 1Dakota Rose, Dakota Rose and yeah that was a million years ago, man, I swear.
Speaker 2Yeah, that was a good band too, man, I enjoyed playing with you that would that really helped me get my percussion, my latin percussion and all that stuff together.
Speaker 1That was Danny and chris.
Jazz Trio Conversation
Speaker 2Danny Yep, chris, um, um, what was the guitar player's name? Um, chris carberry, chris, yeah, no, no guitar player. Um keyboard player. Keyboards. Yeah, the keyboard is.
Speaker 1Quinn was out queen yeah who I'm doing a trio way. Right now I'm doing a jazz trio without.
Speaker 2Oh, wow, you gotta tell him. I said hey, yeah, yeah, this is.
Speaker 1Alan Dave Siegel we got trio together. It's funny. Yeah, so cool man that was. Those are great. That was good stuff, man, Really good stuff. I'm glad you shared that like, I hope people get a lot out of that. You know, it's like.
Speaker 2Oh well, thanks for doing, thanks for opening up this platform.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, I, I, I want to get you know drummers or you know musicians I. Somehow we always separate drummers from musicians.
Speaker 2Are you a drummer or are you musicians?
Speaker 1Yeah, it's all the same you know.
Speaker 2I play drums man.
Speaker 1Drummers over here, musicians over here so cool man. Thanks for coming on, Uh thank you. Thanks to bill anum for coming in and, uh Uh, joining my cast of characters. Let's go All right, thank you.
