They say time flies when you're having fun, but never so quickly as when you're jamming with an old friend like Mark Newman. Our laughter echoed through the studio as Mark recanted the time he salvaged a guitar from the trash—a fitting prelude to his remarkable journey from a wide-eyed kid enthralled by '50s rock 'n' roll, to the seasoned guitarist we know today. This episode peels back the curtain on the music industry, presenting tales of bands formed and friendships solidified, all against the ever-changing backdrop of the world’s sonic landscape.
Imagine auditioning for the very instruments you play. That's just one of the humorous ideas we toss around while discussing the peculiarities of music scenes and the nature of musicianship. Mark's narrative, woven with the threads of influence from The Beatles to The Rolling Stones, captures the essence of creative evolution. From high school gigs to the brink of record deals, our discussion navigates the complex interplay between ambition and the pure love of music, highlighting the soulful detours and career-defining moments that can only be appreciated by those who've lived it.
As the chords of Woodstock's legacy fade into the acoustics of New York's vibrant scene, we traverse the industry's tides alongside Mark. The episode crescendos with his stirring recitation of "Running Hard in the Rain," echoing the perseverance and passion emblematic of a musician's life. Whether it's navigating the murky waters of club date gigs or cherishing the unexpected call from John Oates, this symphony of stories is a testament to the tumultuous yet triumphant life in the rhythm of music. Join us for an unforgettable journey through the melodies and memories that define a true artist's path.
They say time flies when you're having fun, but never so quickly as when you're jamming with an old friend like Mark Newman. Our laughter echoed through the studio as Mark recanted the time he salvaged a guitar from the trash—a fitting prelude to his remarkable journey from a wide-eyed kid enthralled by '50s rock 'n' roll, to the seasoned guitarist we know today. This episode peels back the curtain on the music industry, presenting tales of bands formed and friendships solidified, all against the ever-changing backdrop of the world’s sonic landscape.
Imagine auditioning for the very instruments you play. That's just one of the humorous ideas we toss around while discussing the peculiarities of music scenes and the nature of musicianship. Mark's narrative, woven with the threads of influence from The Beatles to The Rolling Stones, captures the essence of creative evolution. From high school gigs to the brink of record deals, our discussion navigates the complex interplay between ambition and the pure love of music, highlighting the soulful detours and career-defining moments that can only be appreciated by those who've lived it.
As the chords of Woodstock's legacy fade into the acoustics of New York's vibrant scene, we traverse the industry's tides alongside Mark. The episode crescendos with his stirring recitation of "Running Hard in the Rain," echoing the perseverance and passion emblematic of a musician's life. Whether it's navigating the murky waters of club date gigs or cherishing the unexpected call from John Oates, this symphony of stories is a testament to the tumultuous yet triumphant life in the rhythm of music. Join us for an unforgettable journey through the melodies and memories that define a true artist's path.
all right, here we go. All right, this is episode 19 of on drums. I'm john simeoni, I don't know I have today. My guest is mark newman, but I always say this mark, you're not a drummer, you're a guitar player and it's I don't know why it's called On Drums, this podcast, it should be called On Whatever the Fuck you Play, it should be called. Anyway, my guest is Mark Newman. He's a great guitar player and an old friend. Say hi, mark, how's it going? John, good, good to see you, man. We were talking before this. I, we were talking about how long we know each other and how we met. So let's figure that out. That was, uh, how many million years ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, more than I can remember what has got to be at least 10 years, no more than 10.
Speaker 3:More than 10.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think maybe 20.
Speaker 3:Maybe, Maybe, 20.
Speaker 1:Maybe, yeah, it sucks maybe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it sucks, it's like that's like that's, the 20 years is like you know I used to laugh at that.
Speaker 1:Come on, we blinked and here we are, we blinked. So so, mark, just you know what, just what I like to do to start these things is like, like you know, um how did? It? How did this whole thing start for you? Like, this whole podcast is supposed to be about really everybody's take on on this industry, right?
Speaker 1:so I got a lot of gripes about music oh actually particularly long long island things we were just talking about, like the bar scene and and the, the jams and how it's like there's this weird demographic of people who are not musicians, who kind of say their music, they buy a guitar and they're a guitar player, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's how we refer to people that are terrible, Terrible. You know, somebody's name comes up and somebody says oh yeah, he owns a guitar.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he owns a guitar, right, we said you should have to audition for your gear. That way, if you show up on a gig, right, you get a nice guitar, all right, this guy can play. Or nice drums, all right, he can play. If he shows up with a shitty kit, well, he sucks.
Speaker 3:Every so often, like, I'll show up at a jam session with a squire, which is for those of you who are not guitar players.
Speaker 1:I'm not a guitar player, so that's a giveaway, right? Yeah?
Speaker 3:but and there are some um, there are some epiphones and um and squires that are really good. Yeah, in fact, um, I was on my way out of town for a weekend, uh, had to go to chicago for a gig and I had a very early flight and I walked past my car and there's a. There's a guitar laying in the garbage and it's a squire, and my girlfriend says that there's a guitar on the on the ground there. It's covered with, you know, morning dew and everything.
Speaker 3:I look. I said have another cup of coffee, you're crazy enough. I pick up the guitar. It was a Squire and I said, all right, I threw it in my trunk, went to the airport, came back after the weekend. Well you kept the guitar. Was that keepable? I still have the guitar and I restrung it and I think I used it on one of Mimi's gigs. Oh my god.
Speaker 2:so that's the neck needed to be straightened.
Speaker 3:I did replace the pickups, I think, because whoever owned this guitar didn't take care of it, and you know laying out yeah you know the moisture got in. Yeah, and I changed the pickups. The neck hasn't moved in over 10 years wow, it's that old and yeah, this was a while ago, but I'll show up at a jam with that guitar just to throw everybody off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this guy's gonna a squire this guy's gonna suck so, so, give me, give me, like, give me your, how did you start? And all this stuff. Like, when did you start?
Speaker 3:uh, you know, that's what's your story well, my story, um, I think watching tv when I was a kid and seeing people like duane, eddie and you know I'm giving my age- away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because you're like how old uh, I'm in my 70s at this point. Everybody who brings up the name Mark Newman is always followed by man. He looks way younger than he is. Everybody, everybody says that they're all still drinking. Yeah well, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. Everybody says that You're like timeless or something Like we just keep your house cold, or something that preserves you like Walt Disney.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a rumor. By the way, I don like wolf disney. Yeah, yeah, that's a rumor.
Speaker 1:By the way, I don't think so. Um, yeah, I mean, you know so, but what year are you talking about?
Speaker 3:with uh oh, we're talking about the 50s. You know, um dick clark would have people on and he had a show on friday nights called the beats nut hour, because that was his sponsor and of course they were all. None of them were playing live, but I remember seeing different acts and I got drawn into the guitar right away and I actually asked my parents for music lessons.
Speaker 1:For guitar lessons.
Speaker 3:Yeah, specifically, and back then it was like parents would try to get their kids to play an instrument For me. I asked for it, I wanted to do it and I dropped it for a while. You did, you dropped it. Well, I studied for four years with a local music teacher and then I kind of you know, I was just doing other things. I was in junior high school and then my mother saw an ad in the massapequa post you know, those, those, yeah, those local doesn't exist anymore by I'm sure it doesn't around so, um, she saw an ad abandoned.
Speaker 3:Massapequa was looking for a guitar player, so I hadn't picked up my guitar for two years and, um, I I called them my father somehow found a Japanese electric guitar from somebody he knew and an amp, and, uh, I went and got together with these guys and I got the gig.
Speaker 3:I guess I didn't suck as much as the next guy. Uh, the other thing was you know about, like, and I got the gig. I guess I didn't suck as much as the next guy. The other thing was, you know, I became a lead singer in that band because, again, it was like whoever sucked the least as far as being a vocalist wound up, but see, that's the thing you don't suck.
Speaker 1:So that was my next question when did you realize you could play and sing? Because you do both. That's kind of an odd thing for somebody who plays the way you play. Usually it's like somebody plays great guitar, doesn't really sing, or they sing and they suck at guitar. You know, I mean, it's the.
Speaker 3:You have both going on well, like I said, I had, I, I had to keep singing because, uh, nobody else in the band could sing. So I guess, from just doing it over and over and over, and I'm sure.
Speaker 3:I wasn't very good. But you know, and when you become a singer, well, for me, not only did I listen to Beatles and Stones, and I also listened to a lot of R&B and those people were really skilled singers. So you try to copy that and you usually fail in the beginning. Yeah, and I mean the singers I came up listening to as far as like Motown and all the stuff that came out of Memphis. You know Sam and Dave. Yeah, you know Otis Redding. And then you know, then you go to Detroit, and I mean David Ruffin, marvin Gaye None of us could sing like that.
Speaker 1:But it was the influence. So you have a lot of different influences from different perspectives.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was hooked on that kind of music from day one, even as late as like 66, 67, 67. You heard sly and the family stone and great singer yeah you know, all the vocals in that, in that genre, are always, you know, ridiculous yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, what, um, where'd you go from? So that was your first, your first, like I guess, playing gig. Was that? Yeah, who those guys were? So what? So how did you? You're full-time, you're a full-time musician, so what, how did you? What? Where'd you go, what happened for you from there?
Speaker 3:well, I wound up being in several bands in high school. I'm still in touch with some of those guys, yeah. And then again I put it down for a while because I was going to stony bro Brook trying to be a psych major. Oh really, yeah, you went to school. I did graduate with a degree, surprisingly.
Speaker 1:Well, a psych major is good if you're going to be a musician, because everybody on the band stands out of their minds. True, yeah, so being a singer can be the first one to analyze everybody.
Speaker 3:You know I mean my favorite answer to people. You know people be whining about you know, why they're not famous or why they're not getting certain gigs. And my answer was uh, the one from super chicken, the cartoon.
Speaker 1:You knew the job was dangerous when you took it you know, unfortunately that's part of my my I don't want to get off track here, but that's part of my gripe in general is the people who I I don't know how to put it. So some people do this, I think, solely because they want to be recognized and they need that attention, like they crave people saying to them great job you're. Oh, you're great, you're that. And then there's people who just can't, can't not be musicians because it's inside them and right, you know, like you have no choice. You you're just, you're born to it. You have to do it.
Speaker 1:Like I went to school with I was just saying I went to school with dave weckel and and joe rosenblatt and I watched an interview with dave about two months ago and dave said that and I couldn't agree more. He said I didn't choose drums, they chose, they chose me. I had no choice. You know what I mean. So there's those people and then there's people who just want to get a pat on the back. I think Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.
Speaker 3:What do you think? Well, you know what's funny Most full-time musicians that they feel like it's a calling. They're the worst at promotion, yeah. Stalling yeah, they're the worst at promotion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and the people that you know want that pat on the back. They're the best. That's exactly right that's exactly right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so um for me, I was hooked on guitar as soon as I, you know, as soon as I got past the pain of get developing calluses, I uh so you have to have calluses, right?
Speaker 1:I don't?
Speaker 3:I mean, I know nothing about guitar well, yeah, I mean certain occupations, like I always heard, like people do, certain have certain occupations, develop certain calluses right. So on guitar, if you're playing like a righty, on your left hand, your fingertips are going to get harder yeah.
Speaker 3:They're going to develop calluses. Yeah, so, uh, once I got past that, which took about six weeks, um, and back then you usually went to a music teacher and you rented a guitar from them and the action was like way off the neck and you know it was a battle, yeah, um, and it wasn't until I got an electric guitar, which still had terrible action but was better than the acoustic, um, but, uh, I guess I've never really stopped playing for any.
Speaker 1:So so let me so you. So you want. You played a couple bands in high school, and then what? What happens? When, after you were, you graduated from stony brook, you said yeah. So what happened after that?
Speaker 3:um, I wound up. One of my friends, uh, that I've known since kindergarten, was writing songs kindergarten kindergarten? I've? No. I met this guy on the bus stop. Uh, when I went to kindergarten and we, you know, we were friends all through elementary and high school and he was starting to write songs, and so was I, and he started booking gigs at colleges. So we wound up doing a lot.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you met him in kindergarten and kept in touch.
Speaker 3:Yep, we were friends all through school and I think he was going to CW Post and I was going to Stony Brook and he booked some gigs and he said, hey, you want to do the gigs with me? I went, yeah, sure, and we played a lot of his original stuff and then a lot of mine, and then we started writing together and we had an acoustic trio. His sister was a great singer and uh, we would, you know, play local bars and uh, you know, just the three of us right, mostly acoustic. And then then we got a record deal offer from somebody in atlanta I don't even remember what the hookup was, but you mean atlantic atlantic atlanta georgia atlanta, georgia.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it doesn't mean atlantic in Atlanta. I don't even remember what the hookup was.
Speaker 1:You mean Atlantic, atlanta Georgia, atlanta Georgia, it doesn't mean Atlantic.
Speaker 3:Records. No, that would have been better because we would have stayed in New York. Right, my friend knew somebody, a family connection, that was involved with a record label that had just gotten off the ground, and we moved down there, the three of us of us, you moved yeah, and we were working with this label and what year are we talking about now?
Speaker 1:because you know, anybody who's like born after 2000 won't know what a label is. Labels, that's true.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean yeah, there used to be this thing called record labels and you had a deal and you get a record deal.
Speaker 1:He's calling it record deals.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you had to deal with the A&R guy and they'd stick you in the studio with a producer. So whoever probably whoever needed money at the label- Right.
Speaker 1:Whoever needed money at the label.
Speaker 3:So we were. I don't know if we ever signed a contract with them, but the label went under. Yeah, Probably within that year. They just didn't, I don't know. They just couldn't get off the ground.
Speaker 1:So those were the days actually got. If you got a record whether they call a record deal quotes yeah, um, you actually did have a record coming out. And now I hear I did a kick saturday night and like four or five people were talking to the guitar player at given times and everybody, everyone said, yeah, my next, my next, uh album's coming out. It comes out in your house. You know what I mean? It's like they just make them and now, yeah, I got an album out. I just did it yesterday in my studio yeah, I.
Speaker 3:I have friends that are dentists yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, dentists. My dentist has a new label.
Speaker 3:Yeah a new uh record coming out. Um, yeah, I've. I've done so many sessions for people that are not full-time musicians.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're the ones with the money, usually too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to pay for the session I used to run into my dentist at Sam Ash and he would go in there and I'd be walking and go, hey, what's a good amp to buy? Yeah, I'm thinking, okay, this guy's got money, I'll steer him towards a good amp.
Speaker 1:So you're doing gigs Now, where are we as far as your age goes?
Speaker 3:Okay. So my friend and his sister wound up moving back to New York later that year.
Speaker 1:Because of the label thing. Yeah, it didn't pan out.
Speaker 3:And they had a few acts that were signed um. We were the acoustic act. They had an r&b act. That was great um and uh a few others, and then, uh, nothing happened, right which?
Speaker 1:which was, I think, a common, pretty much common, you know. Yes, people get signed and it falls through. Don told me the same story. Don Olson told me the same story. He had the record deal. It looked like it was going to go. They had the whole thing and it just went nowhere.
Speaker 3:The hard thing was tour support. They want to put you out on the road and it costs money. Even the Stones, they get sponsors for their tours.
Speaker 1:I mean even the stones. They get sponsors, right. Uh, think about that. They get sponsors, the stones get sponsored of course they.
Speaker 3:You know, you see, they have a booth set up yeah I know one year jovan sponsored the the stones and they had a booth at their uh, at their concert, so, um, so anyway, they moved back to new york. Um I I was still living in atlanta, probably for the rest of the year. I was playing they moved, you stayed I stayed and because I was starting to get calls for sessions and um in new york the really the music scene really wasn't, wasn't really happening at that time.
Speaker 1:Which time are we talking?
Speaker 3:about 72, 73. Al Cooper moved to Atlanta and he wound up producing Leonard Skinner and maybe a few other people. And I mean I spoke to him when he was down there and he even said and New York just reared its ugly head and I had to get out. That's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I never heard that before.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he was. He moved to Atlanta and because there was some I mean the Allman Brothers had come out like a few years before that Leonard Skinner was around, who else? There were a lot of bands in the Southern Rock thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I stayed there for the rest of the year. I wound up and I was mostly doing acoustic gigs and I ran into. So you were surviving doing gigs.
Speaker 1:You were doing gigs, yeah, and um, that must have been a lot of gigs, right?
Speaker 3:um, a decent amount, yeah so I don't know if you remember the artist Oliver who sang Good Morning.
Speaker 1:Starship.
Speaker 3:I do remember Oliver, yeah he was after he was really famous. He was doing acoustic gigs and he came through Atlanta and he was playing the club that I used to play. Sometimes I wound up getting in a conversation with his bass player, and Oliver was a great guy.
Speaker 1:That was a big tune, that was a big hit.
Speaker 3:Huge yeah, but he didn't write that, oh God. I didn't know that either. No, that was from Hair. That was from the play Hair. I didn't know that Good Um.
Speaker 1:no, that was from hair that was from the play hair. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3:Um good morning starshine, I'm pretty sure, Um, anyway. So I got in a conversation with his bass player, Um, and I think I might've even opened up for Oliver one night and his bass player. Uh, it turned out that his bass player was in a band called Sweetwater. They were the first electric band to play Woodstock. So we're talking Woodstock is 69. And it turned out, I saw them, I was at Woodstock, you were at Woodstock, I was at Woodstock.
Speaker 1:Playing at Woodstock. I wasn't playing. You were one of those naked people under the blankets Yep, I lost all my clothes, my sleeping bag.
Speaker 3:I recently ran into a friend of mine in Florida and we were talking about that. She was there. We were all hanging out together. That's funny. I think we lost almost everything. I think I kept my jeans and a t-shirt. That's all I came home with. That's great, anyway. So I remember seeing him and we were talking and he, he heard me play and he said hey, you know, um, I'm starting up a band. Um, he told me he was in sweetwater, I'm starting up a band in la, if you ever get out that way. After a while nothing was happening for me in Atlanta and I stayed in touch with this guy and somebody I saw on a board somewhere looking for somebody to share the expenses with to go to LA. I called the guy up and I went out to LA and I called the guy and said hey, I'm in LA, see that's interesting because that's just that whole time period.
Speaker 1:That would never happen. I know exactly what you're talking about with a board People used to see it was a bulletin board. They would post things like that was the Internet. You'd go see these boards and they would have this shit on it that you could, you know, like you just said, share a room or whatever. Share expenses.
Speaker 3:Yep. So I drove cross country with this guy and I'm pretty sure I told the guy from Sweetwater that I was coming out, but I don't think he really expected me to come out and luckily my uncle lived there at the time in LA. So I stayed at his place for a couple of nights and then I found other people I could stay with. So I stayed at his place for a couple of nights and then I found other people I could stay with and and so you're like a music nomad.
Speaker 3:I was, you were yeah and uh, and then Warner Brothers wound up paying for our demos. Well, they were, I mean.
Speaker 1:For the demos for the this, this Sweetwater band yeah, we, we this.
Speaker 3:Sweetwater band. Yeah, it was called Avalon.
Speaker 1:Avalon.
Speaker 3:And they paid for our tapes.
Speaker 1:Basically they weren't just demos, I mean we were in Paramount Studios for like six months recording. Did you get paid for those recordings or no?
Speaker 3:No, that's just part of the deal. No, Paramount Studios gave us the time. I don't remember if they gave us a time on spec, which was a common thing back then, or if Warner brothers, because spec meaning that if it, if the album hit it, they'd get a percentage or something, yeah, and you'd go back there and record the rest of the record. I don't remember if Warner brothers was. I think they were paying for part of it because the bass player and the keyboard player were in Sweetwater and they were signed to Warner brothers.
Speaker 3:I'm not bass player and the keyboard player were in Sweetwater and they were signed to Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1:It's been a while so we put that out.
Speaker 3:That's been a while, well, so we put that out, Just so you know.
Speaker 1:1970 was what?
Speaker 3:Don't even tell me how many years ago was that?
Speaker 1:50 years ago.
Speaker 3:Right At least yeah, oh, my God, yep. So we were looking at management, we were looking at an agent. The whole music landscape changed All of a sudden disco, and five minutes later the new wave thing came in.
Speaker 1:Yep, I remember that.
Speaker 3:And now nobody's returning phone calls.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:So I'm getting frustrated. I had a young kid at the time. He was six months old and I finally decided to move back to New York.
Speaker 1:Oh, so your son was just born.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I moved back to New York and it was pretty much the same thing here, but there seemed to be more venues that I could play at acoustically, like on bleaker street.
Speaker 1:Kenny's castaway is a bitter end, um, and there were a whole bunch so that must have been when those, because those places started to come alive.
Speaker 3:I, I guess in the the Bitter End was alive in probably 70, 72. Yeah, yeah, but I came back to New York in like 78.
Speaker 1:78. 1978, not 1878.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, so. Yeah, that would have definitely been like cryogenic territory. So anyway.
Speaker 3:So all disney yeah so I I started playing acoustically all over the city, and and then I ran into a drummer by the name of john michelle oh, I know, john yeah, on a corporate john's great yeah, and we're still best friends and we were talking and we got together to play you know just jam with some friends of his and we put a band together and then we were playing out both acoustically and electrically and you know it was still part of the game about submitting songs to labels. And we had a lot of interest.
Speaker 3:And again, the landscape would keep changing yeah so, um, so in the 90s they became, uh, quote, well, there was a thing where every band had to do an acoustic, you know, like a stripped down version of what they did. Even the famous bands were doing it. So we had that. You know, we, we had an acoustic version and an electric version, and john.
Speaker 1:So what do you mean? That was a requirement of the record companies. They said no it just. It just seemed to be a trend it was a trend yeah, and then um, I think I remember that also where, where there was also what did they call that um?
Speaker 3:it was a strip unplugged, yes, unplugged.
Speaker 1:There was everybody the mtv unplugged, the whole thing now so we did that in the 90s.
Speaker 3:We played in a place called jack the ripper in the west village. We played every thursday night for four years wow and it was a stripped down version of what the band did yeah and um, you know, and then it was the whole seattle thing before that where you had to be grungy, so the landscape kept changing and to me, one of the worst things you can do as an artist is play catch-up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So there were all these bands out of Seattle. So now all these bands were wearing flannel shirts in New York and trying to sound as grungy as they can. Yeah, now all of a sudden, everybody's disguising their chops and everybody's, you know, trying to just sound real dirty and down and dirty. And some of these guys are ferocious players, but they wouldn't share that with the public because they wanted to sound like the bands in Seattle.
Speaker 1:That's so weird, man.
Speaker 3:I know, to me one of the worst things you can do is is try and sound not be true to yourself anymore, because you'll just be chasing that carry the rest of your life, yeah I I had, I had a couple of friends who it's in like the, it's got to be like the 80s or something studios.
Speaker 1:I had a couple you know, a friend from college who, rich, had a great studio and used to produce these girls singers, and then I would go there and I'd listen to the song. I remember one song they had was good, you know all good stuff, whatever you know, not my stuff, but not my type of stuff. But then there was one song I listened to and it made this weird modulation, like it jumped to this different key quickly and I was like, wow, that. I said. I said that sounds weird. Man, is that was that intended?
Speaker 1:And he said to me well, whitney houston just did that on her last record on this whatever tune, and I knew this song, whatever it was, I knew the song. I was like, yeah, but I, it worked for whitney, like this is like it was just it was only done because she did it and that sold records. So we're doing it too. You don't think it's so anti-creative, you know what I mean. Like that's just a different mindset, you know Like. You know it's not like you said not being true to yourself. You know, just do what everybody else is doing and see if it works.
Speaker 3:Well, you know what's funny? Diane Warren, the famous songwriter. She had a huge couple of huge hits with Aerosmith. And she who was it? Oh, milli Vanilli covered one of her songs Milli Vanilli.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did they cover a song they couldn't sing?
Speaker 3:Well, they didn't sing on the records.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm saying. Oh, so Phony Baloney is what they were, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:So. She had a song I'm trying to remember the name of it. It's Sam Moore covered on his. He name of it, um, it's sam moore covered on his. He had an album out called overnight sensational. So we would, we were doing that song live and and the rumor was that the verse was in one key and then I'm trying to remember if went up or down a half a step. She made a mistake while she was recording it and then said oh, I like this, and she left it, um, where it changed key, right, and it was really cool yes, so see, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:That's that it was a happy accident yeah right, happy accident, right, so, um. So now, all right, so you're back in new york. Um, when did the john oats thing happen? Um what's funny is, you know, Kevin Dunn was here.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Like I don't know four months ago, when he's with John.
Speaker 3:Hall oh with Daryl.
Speaker 2:Hall.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, daryl Hall.
Speaker 3:John Hall's, the guitar player in Orleans.
Speaker 1:He was with Daryl Hall. You were with John Oates, right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Well, I went out to Colorado and Oats, wait, this is when I was going out to Colorado every year from 2003 on to go do some gigs with John Michelle, so he would put me on some gigs and in the winter here hardly anybody's working.
Speaker 1:I know, isn't that weird, yeah, seasonal.
Speaker 3:You know, know, you get two bad years of snowstorms yeah, I know you know nobody's nobody's booking gigs anymore, so, but out there, the snow storms work for you right so anyway, um oats was at one of these gigs and John was already working for Oates.
Speaker 1:Oh, he was playing with John Oates, yeah on his solo stuff.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, when did they split? By the way, they never really split totally.
Speaker 1:Actually, brian told me that it was never really Hall Oates, it was always, he said. If you noticed, the record said Daryl Hall and John Oates. They never said Hall Oates.
Speaker 3:Maybe I don't know if that's it used to be Hall and Oates, and then they were billing it as Daryl Hall and John Oates.
Speaker 1:Daryl Hall and John Oates Okay so they were kind of separating.
Speaker 3:I guess. Well, according to Oates in an interview, when they felt like they were at the top of their game, they both wanted to try and go solo Right and it didn't really pan out to the extent of Hall Oates.
Speaker 1:Well, it did for Darryl Hall.
Speaker 3:Well, he had the show, you know, darryl's House, which really helped, but isn't that a recent thing?
Speaker 1:Isn't that like fairly recent?
Speaker 3:Yeah, fairly. Because they broke up in how many years ago A while ago, but then there were rumors they were going to be inducted in the Rock Hall of Fame. You know Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and so they started doing gigs again as Hall and Oates.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But the whole time, oates was trying to reinvent himself as an Americana singer-songwriter Because that's really where his heart is, I think songwriter and uh, because that's really where his heart is, I think.
Speaker 3:And so he was writing with jim lauderdale and vince gill and, um, uh, he wasn't really writing pop tunes anymore and and daryl hall was yeah, so anyway, uh, oats was at one of these gigs I I did with john michelle and he came over to me and you, you know, said, hey, you sound great, blah, blah, blah. And you know we were talking for a while. So he was releasing solo albums and he had people on there like Jerry Douglas, who's probably the best dobro player in the world. And I'm trying to remember the other guitar player who passed recently, mike Henderson, I think was his name. I'm trying to remember the other guitar player who passed recently, mike Henderson, I think was his name.
Speaker 3:Another great slide player, and Oates was really trying to lean in that direction. So, anyway, oates wanted to do a tour and he was telling John he says yeah, I got to get like a really good slide player and you know, jerry Douglas isn't going to leave town. You know, he's like the number one guy as far as being a studio guy. So John said hey, why don't you call my friend Mark? You heard him play. He's actually a really good slide player. In 2011, oates called me on my birthday and said and don't ask me how old I was Anyway. And Oates said hey, mark, it's Oates called me on my birthday and said and don't ask me how old I was Anyway. And Oates said hey, mark, it's Oates, you want?
Speaker 2:to do some gigs.
Speaker 3:It's.
Speaker 1:Oates.
Speaker 3:He said you want to do some gigs with me. So I'm trying to act cool. I'm going yeah, I guess. So I think I was jumping up and down when I got off the phone, I guess.
Speaker 3:So right, I got off the phone, I guess. So right and anyway. So he sent me, you know, like one of those. He sent me a copy of the CD before it was released and I put it on and I heard some of the solos and I said to my girlfriend I went, I got to call him back, I can't do this yeah yeah, but I didn't leave the apartment for probably two weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's what you just saw. It's like that's a typical musician reaction you hear somebody else play something great and you're like oh no, man, I can't.
Speaker 3:And then you can. I was terrified.
Speaker 1:And I Now, let me ask you just to interrupt you for one second, that's all right. When he called you, you, I mean did you have any doubt? It was him.
Speaker 1:him I mean because, because I had john scarpula on here and he told me he told me the story when the guy from I forget his name from tower power called uh, oh shit, I should know this. Anyway. He called him up and john thought it was somebody pranking him so he like fucked with him for a minute and then hung up on him and then he called back back and he said what's up, man? And he said you know really what's going on. And then John went oh my God, it's not a joke. And he apologized, but he thought somebody was messing with him.
Speaker 3:Well, I knew that Osu was going to call me, because John called me.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you had an idea, so I knew he was going to gonna call okay, um, that would be a cruel joke to play on somebody so anyway.
Speaker 3:Uh, that happened to me with somebody else. Um, the guy the bass player from sweetwater ran into this guy in the bank. They were both using the same guy to administer their publishing. And this is. This was in the 70s, so 1970s. Yeah, yes, yeah. So, um, the guy, sam the sham, said, yeah, man, I'm looking for a slide player. And uh, I can't find it because it wasn't really like a typical thing to do at that point. So, uh, people weren't really you know, uh, in la, anyway, there weren't a lot of slide players at that time, or at least sam couldn't find one right so my friend called me up and said hey, sam, the sham might call you.
Speaker 1:And again he was doing so now I I this. I'm excuse my ignorance, sam. The sham is, guy did wo.
Speaker 3:Okay, right, you just said that it was in like 30 movies, right.
Speaker 1:That was his one. No, he had Little Red Riding Hood and he had a couple of other hits after that.
Speaker 3:Okay, and he was touring the world right before that and he wanted to get out and play again and he was still writing. And he actually wrote some great stuff, some great blues songs with great lyrics, anyway. So I thought my friend was kidding. And sure enough, sam called me up and he had this deep voice. He says hey, mark, this is Sam. I thought it was my friend.
Speaker 1:And I did the same thing, so right, same thing.
Speaker 3:I did the same thing and I don't don't think I hung up, but I went. All right, fred cut it out, man, and but you know I I'm not sure if I hung up, but it turned out to be sam. I went to his, I went to his house, we played guitar for about an hour and he I was on the bandstand with him next night yeah, that's cool yeah, but with oats I knew he was going to call and I wound up playing with him for a couple of years.
Speaker 1:So not anymore. He's not doing a.
Speaker 3:No, Oates moved to Nashville and I think oh, he moved to Nashville. Yeah, he's in Nashville now and I think he wanted to use a lot of the Nashville guys.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Because, again, they have that sound and he thinks of me as a blues player because I play slide right. So he wanted to get some of those guys that were like more, you know, in that genre and and they were local guys right so um you know I get it, I you know it was. It was great while lasted um but it's great on your resume.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's you. You know it's cool to say you did that for whatever. How long? However long you did it right.
Speaker 3:I mean, I did it for two years. It was a great gig. Oates was a great guy to work for. Oh, that's cool, totally cool.
Speaker 1:Because Brian was saying the same about Darrell Hall. He says it's a great gig. Right In all ways, not just that, the way they're treated, but the benefits they get health insurance, I think. Right, you know they got paid during COVID, even though they weren't working. You know, so that's a good gig. That's a good gig, I mean, who could say that you know Not many.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Not many, so that's. When was that?
Speaker 3:That was 2011 and 2012. 2012, so okay, and before that I was working for Sam Moore.
Speaker 2:Sam and.
Speaker 3:Dave.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, I worked for him for 10 years Right okay, so give me like your resume. You have a bunch of other people you've worked with, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was another one of those like who the hell is this Jim McCarty? Well, actually, hell is this Jim McCarty? Well, actually, he emailed me. Jim McCarty from the Yardbirds sent me an email asking me to do some gigs with him in Canada, in.
Speaker 1:Canada.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was staying in Toronto for the summer and he wanted to do like five or six dates up there and he wanted to do some recording. And Carol Kay the publicist, not the bass player gave him my information and you know we spoke and he asked me to do a tour with him and I did it.
Speaker 1:It was a lot of fun so it's funny how those things happen, like you do gigs and then you know somebody sees you and somebody knows, like, like it's you do gigs, and then you know somebody sees you and somebody knows somebody else who's doing a gig. And well, that's kind of how it happens, right? The?
Speaker 3:other one. That was really weird bobby whitlock from derrick and the dominoes posted on facebook. Um what oh? He was looking for a guitar player and I I'm going. One of my friends called me up. I said go online right now, get on facebook. Bobby whitlock's looking for a guitar player and I I'm going. One of my friends called me up. I said go online right now, get on facebook. Bobby whitlock's looking for a guitar player. I said you mean, he's just posting on his page that he's looking for a guitar player, so now I don't know who that is.
Speaker 3:That's um derrick and the dominoes was eric clapton okay bobby whitlock, call radle and jim gordon, the drummer, and so Bobby Whitlock was the other vocalist, the other singer in Derek and he co-wrote everything. So even when I was, you know, even when the Derek and the Dominoes album first came out in the 70s, I got hooked on his voice right away. He was just an amazing singer. And so I'm thinking, why would bobby whitlock post on his page like not go through?
Speaker 3:yeah, that's other channels yeah um, I guess he wasn't as active, I don't know, but so so I I messaged. What he was looking for was a different. He was touring with his wife, coco Carmel, who's also a great songwriter and acoustic guitar player, and she plays alto sax. So they were touring just the two of them, and they were looking for a different electric guitar player for every gig.
Speaker 1:They wanted to use a different electric guitar player on every gig. Yeah, why would they want that?
Speaker 3:Just to break the monotony of you know yeah, I don't know, I wouldn't call it monotony but just to add a different flavor on every gig.
Speaker 3:So anyway, I messaged him and I gave him some links to listen to. He got back to me 10 minutes later and he said I got an opening on this gig at Bull Run up somewhere in Massachusetts. So I was so excited I went yeah, I'll do it. I was very excited to be working with him and I drove four hours. I never asked him what I was going to get paid I never asked him anything. I just got in the car and went yeah, you know, that's funny.
Speaker 1:It's funny how, when it's when the gig, is you something you really want to do? You don't. I never ask. If it's, if it's like certain players and stuff, I said oh yeah, I'll do it. Yeah but, then. But then then, if it's not that, I'm like, okay, wait, okay wait. What's the pay and how long does it take to get there?
Speaker 3:Well, I went through that with other people, but with this I was so excited to be working Because I heard him sing. Probably a few years before that I was playing South by Southwest and he was on the bill and I heard him sing and I went, I went, my god, I said he's still got that same voice. Yeah, anyway. So I, I went, I drove up to I think it's shirley massachusetts, which is four hours from my house yeah I did sound check with him and I asked him.
Speaker 3:I said you know, I was listening to, you know the derrick and the Dominoes version of all these songs and I listened to a lot of the acoustic stuff that was on online and I said which direction do you want me to go? Do you want me to lean more towards those guitar parts? And he looked at me. He goes make it your own, Just don't fuck up, Layla.
Speaker 1:There you go man, that's very specific.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so anyway we get. We get to the dressing room at the sound check and again, I never asked him if I was being paid. Right, and he hands me. He said, let's take care of business now and he hands me a big wad of cash oh, cool and it was well worth it to drive up there and my girlfriend said to me after the gig she came with me and we're still in touch with them by the way.
Speaker 3:Bobby just had a birthday recently and he just got inducted into Memphis. He's on the Memphis Walk of Fame where they give you like a musical note, you know, on Beale Street. And again she said I've never seen you smile so much, since I know you yeah, and it's funny.
Speaker 1:This is right. This is the only job. If you think about it, whatever any other profession, you, when you're working, you get paid. Yeah, but if you're a musician and the gig is good enough for you, like I don't care if you get money or not. You know, it's like that me, that's the way I am. Anyway, yeah, I'm like if it's, I don't care what, I would have done the same thing. I did a gig saturday night. I didn't ask what the pay was, it was just I wanted to play with those guys, right, you know.
Speaker 1:So well it's weird right like, right Like, if you're a bricklayer you don't go. Oh no, I love working with this guy, I'll play bricks for free, right, exactly. I mean, it's weird how music is like that.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, one of my friends, this bass player, Rob Jack, who, by the way, makes great, great basses and guitars. Anyway, he gave me the formula because I was complaining.
Speaker 1:There's a formula, yeah, so anyway, he gave me the formula because I was complaining.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was complaining about a gig that I do. That pays very well.
Speaker 1:So I know exactly what you're going to say.
Speaker 3:And he said it's two out of three. He said if the music's good and the pay is good and the hang is good, if you get two out of three, okay, yeah, keep the gig right so two.
Speaker 1:So you have to have two of those three. So yeah, so it could be a shitty hang, good pay and good music, right. Or it could be shitty music, good pay and a good hang, yeah, or it could be. What was the third one? Uh, I know, that totally makes sense to me, man. That's, that's just crazy. Matt Miller's got a different one. He's got like it's got to be either your buds or the bread or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if one of my friends calls me, hey, I'm doing a bar gig, what are you doing? If I'm off, I'll go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but then there are people who call you, you go, no, what does this pay?
Speaker 3:I do it all the time. If it's a gig I really don't want to do, I'll price myself out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that's the only way to do it is you price yourself out.
Speaker 3:I rarely do that, by the way.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what Club Date's, right? It's battle pay. Yeah, that's what it is. You get paid because you're going to ride on a smelly elevator in a tuxedo up to the third floor of some bullshit catering hall that's probably going to be knocked down in 10 years. Right, I mean, that's what it is. We've all done that before. We just, like you know, hold your nose.
Speaker 3:I'd like to be driving that bulldozer actually.
Speaker 1:Well, the Huntington Townhouse. They leveled that place. I think it's a CBS now.
Speaker 2:It's a Target, it's better as a Target.
Speaker 1:I'd rather play at the Target than at the Huntington Townhouse. Oh my God, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know what's funny? I did a lot of gigs there, like when I first started doing those kind of gigs.
Speaker 1:At the Club H, you mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they used to have these guys that were probably in the motorcycle gang, the Pagans, but I'm not sure what. The townhouse, the townhouse to park cars?
Speaker 1:Oh, do you know that's what you had to pay a dollar to park. Yeah, I used to throw the dollar out the window. I didn't stop my car. I used to throw the dollar out the window and then watch them all scramble for that one dollar as if it was something.
Speaker 3:Well, one time I pulled up and I said he goes, give me a dollar. And I went I'm gonna need a receipt. And he goes, I ain't got no receipts. I said, yeah, I'll see you later.
Speaker 1:Three of them got on a jeep.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they followed me up to the top and I had to make an example and I said uh, is this going to get ugly? I said get me a receipt. And they, we don't have no, and they're surrounding me and I said look. I said on my first break I said I'll give you the dollar, but on my first break I want a receipt. I'm coming out and you better have a receipt for me and I'm not going back to finish the gig until I get that receipt. They scribbled something on a napkin.
Speaker 1:You know, I remember just thinking of this they did a gig there one time, remember? They used to have driving up. They sometimes have brides taking pictures and stuff out in front of the place, sure, so I was driving up one time and I had a I think it was a 69 Cutlass. I'm driving to the gig and as I'm driving, you know, I'm in traffic. I'm in a line waiting to go up the ramp and traffic, I'm in a line waiting to go up the ramp and people looking at me, like me and my car in particular. I had no idea why. I said what's wrong? Man, it's not a great car, but what's the problem? And I drove and there's brides and there's people walking and I drive up the hill, I get out, I get out of the car, bring my first load and I come back to the car. And when I'm coming back to the car I realize there's a pigeon stuck in my front grill like, I Like it must have flew into my car on the way to the gig.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know, and all was like blood everywhere and feathers. And I'm driving as Bride's taking pictures and there's this pigeon with his liver hanging out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny because while I was doing those kind of gigs because, look, I was raising kids you had to do them yeah. Yeah, and I didn't have another job and we all had to.
Speaker 1:It was all. Yeah, it was a money thing.
Speaker 3:So, um, I, I remember, like if you worked pretty steadily for an office, like I would get calls to go out of town every so often for the club dates. I mean, no, I mean for you know, like backing up, oh oh, artists with you know that had you know actual recordings out there and I, you know, call up that office and say hey, yeah, they don't want to hear that.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, I have to. I have to cancel. On what do you mean? Um, I'd go. Um, look, I've got a gig with so-and-so, doesn't matter they go. No man, this is the most important gig. Yeah, this wedding is the most important gig of the year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this wedding is the most important wedding ever.
Speaker 3:Really. Well then you better double my salary. I can't do that. Well, listen man, the gig I'm going out of town for is paying me three times what you're going to pay me, and could lead to other gigs like that, so fuck you.
Speaker 1:It's funny how I say fuck you on this.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, you could just, you just did.
Speaker 1:So it's yeah, yeah, it's fine, but, um, it's funny how the club date leaders the club dates are the actual opposite of music. Yeah, if you think about it, right, so you're on. I mean, I this happened for forever on a club day for me. With a few exceptions, there was a couple of good ones, but most of the time it was okay. You know, you had your can't, you had this. We're gonna start. This is the opening tune. This is the next thing, that blah, blah.
Speaker 1:And I remember there were times when they were good players in the band keyboard, like player, bass player, whatever, really good and we'd be playing one of our tunes and all of a sudden it would start to go somewhere. It would start to like you'd, you'd, you'd react, like some that keyboard players like doing a thing and you react, I would react as a drummer. And then it would go and it would start to build and every time the club leader would turn around and go whoa, whoa, yo, let's keep it down Meaning, none of that grooving shit, let's not get this out of hand. This is not that gig. This is the people are eating their cocktail hour shit gig.
Speaker 1:It's the opposite of creative music. It's the opposite of creative music.
Speaker 3:It's the exact opposite. I was on a gig with some amazing horn players and this was like a corporate gig and it was.
Speaker 1:I love those corporate gigs. Those are great.
Speaker 3:Well, the three guys that, like these guys, play on Broadway a lot they do a lot of jazz gigs and the leader. This was a total like society type gig and the horn section started to get a little too hip for the room yeah the leader stopped the band in front of the clients and he's screaming at the horn players screaming too much jazz, no jazz.
Speaker 3:And I'm thinking these guys are like three of the best horn players in town. Are you kidding Yep? And he turned to me and said I need you to turn up, which nobody ever says Turn up. I've never heard that, no one ever says that to me and I said I'm sorry. There were three horn players that are friends of mine sitting right in front of my amp and he said I don't give a shit about them, you turn up. I went put a mic in front of my amp. I'm not turning up.
Speaker 1:Oh good for you, man yeah.
Speaker 3:You know I was blackballed several times from certain offices because I just wouldn't play by the rules. John Michelle and I had a very bad reputation in that.
Speaker 1:But that's actually a good reputation. I've never, ever been fired from a club date band, except for the last one. And you know Phil Magalanis? I don't think so. He's a keyboard player. He played with Arturo Sandoval, he played in the band with me, great musician, and I was like I got fired at kind of an untimely, I needed the money type thing. So I was telling people, yeah, I just got fired and I called phil. I says, yeah, I got fired and phil was like congratulations, yeah, he was the only guy who said that to me. Oh yeah, like that's the your life starts now. You know exactly yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, look, all those gigs definitely served a purpose, like you said.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the money thing, it was money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you had to do them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was, and the problem was it was too much money and you got used to the $100 bills and you know it you that?
Speaker 3:yeah, well, I, I always let them know anytime I would start to work in a new situation um.
Speaker 1:I would tell them okay, look I'm a transient.
Speaker 3:I work for this artist and this artist and they tour yeah and I said I'll take the gig. If I tell you I have to go on tour, I don't want to hear any whining. I don't want you to tell me it's the most important gig of the year. I don't give a shit. I got a call. I was working with this woman, Kathy Tricoli, in the 90s.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know, Kathy.
Speaker 3:Tricoli yeah, and she had a major pop hit out at the time.
Speaker 1:What was the hit? Do you remember?
Speaker 3:Everything Changes. Yep, and my band. She basically hired my rock band to back her up on the road. We got the gig through. The keyboard player was Spiros Poulos, who, Richie Cannata, gave him the gig and then he called us. Anyway, we were on tour with her and then it was the middle of that season where you know it's a million gigs in New York.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:We were going to play the Tonight Show.
Speaker 1:You have to skip the Tonight Show because we have a wedding at the Westbury Manor and I said I called the leader and I said look man, oh my God.
Speaker 3:And I said we're playing the Tonight Show.
Speaker 2:I said we're playing the.
Speaker 3:Tonight Show. He's going, yeah, but you don't understand. I went. Should I call Jay Leno and tell him that we're not available? I don't even know what to say about that?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. The thing is, there's maybe one or two club day bands, offices that work a lot, that pride themselves on having guys who are on the road Like, hey, this guy just got off the road with Whitney Houston and this guy, you know, they do it and they have always these A players and they rotate them because they're out on the road. Well, don't you?
Speaker 3:think the leader videotaped the performance from the Tonight Show and when clients would come in.
Speaker 1:So that's just my guy. These are my main guys. Yeah, oh jeez, I don't know what to say about that Honestly, man, I just don't get it with these guys. Well, I do get it. I do get it, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, I was lucky as far as that goes, those kind of gigs. I wound up working with the guys from the Uptown Horns. They do a lot of corporate gigs as well as backing up everybody under the sun, right, um, they call me to play guitar for them and it's almost all motown or all all you know stuff out of memphis, a lot of rock, um, and some you know some really cool jazz tunes. But these are the guys in the uptown horns. They played with james brown.
Speaker 2:They play with the stones and um.
Speaker 3:They call me for most of their gigs and know it's a thrill for me to play with them, Right of course it is and I you know, so I never mind going to work. Right yeah, I haven't been. They haven't been that busy lately and I've been too busy to, you know, do a lot of their stuff anyway.
Speaker 1:It's good you're busy man, so look, we're winding up here. You want to play a tune? Play something. Sure, I've never had anybody play on this podcast before. You are the first, oh my. God, you're the first and you're the first guitar player.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's because you're a drummer, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, there you go, Tuning Chinese song tuning that's.
Speaker 2:Oh man you couldn't tune before you got here. This is bullshit.
Speaker 1:It doesn't have to be in tune. Just play anything. There you go.
Speaker 3:A lot of guys say you know when they're tuning they go. We tune because we care and I use that line. I just played the Montauk Music Festival. I said we tune because we care and I said it's a lie.
Speaker 1:We really don't give a shit. Yeah, that's right, that's true. What do we got? What do we got here?
Speaker 3:I wrote this song, believe it or not, with Sam the Sham.
Speaker 1:Sam the Sham.
Speaker 3:I did it instrumentally with my old band and I needed lyrics and he came up in the Delta doing gigs. I said, Sam, I'm a white Jewish guy from Long Island. I need help with these lyrics.
Speaker 1:I see, I didn't know you were Jewish. Oh, now I know, so does that change everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now I can't put the podcast on the air. Some of your best friends are Jewish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a racial podcast, okay.
Speaker 3:Anyway. So I said I need some help with lyrics on this one song and he helped me. We figured it out over breakfast and I recorded it on, I think, my first solo CD.
Speaker 1:Let's hear it, man.
Speaker 2:I'm into it, running hard, but the rain won't. Let me see. See, got my past and my memories chasing me, trying to get to the wrong turn that I took. They're too close and I can't afford to look. It ain't the rain, it's the tears from my pain. It's a cry in shame running hard in the rain. I need to rest, but I can't afford the time if I lose you, so let me lose my mind. There are things that soldiers can't forget. Cut me loose from the things that I regret. It ain't the rain, it's the tears from my pain. It's a cry of shame Running hard in the rain. Kitten tired, been running for so long, good Lord knows it didn't mean no one wrong. I know that I got my cross to bear, didn't wind up here cause I didn't care. It ain't the rain, it's the tears from my pain. It's the crying shame Running hard in the rain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, very cool, that was great. All right, man. Thanks, mark. Thanks for being a guest, hey thanks for having me. I appreciate it, man. It was great. Good job, man.
Speaker 3:Thank you, good seeing you Likewise.