Ep. 24: Faith Away From Home: An Expat's Experience with Lisa Mbayo Nsungu

Join us in this episode as Lisa shares her experiences of growing up in a multicultural environment, feeling like a 'stranger,' yet finding strength and purpose in her differences. This captures the initial struggles of adjusting to new cultures, facing doubts, and ultimately finding her place and purpose.

Learn the significance of trusting God's timing and assignments, planting seeds of faith without always knowing the exact outcome. ✨

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✨ Episode Key Points ✨

(0:11:23) - Lisa's Multilingualism and Belgium's History
Lisa speaks multiple languages and discusses Belgium's three national languages, her life growing up in Belgium, and leaving to pursue music.

(0:15:06) - Living Life in Belgium and Beyond
Growing up black in Belgium, Lisa's parents' move to a different city, and the impact of religion and race on her music and view of the world are discussed.

(0:27:17) - Moving to New Country, Experiencing Churches
Matt and Lisa's experiences of moving away from home are compared, discussing church culture, US relocation, and Pittsburgh church finding.

(0:33:30) - Worship and Touring With Maverick City
Discuss experiences in Pentecostal and Maverick City Music, and how Hillman's lack of production values created a unique moment.

(0:39:33) - Navigating Life's Seasons
Lisa discusses bravery, adapting, 'normal', and collaborating with Kirk Franklin.

(0:48:47) - Navigating Paths and Seasons of Life
Lisa's gifts and passions lead her to pursue her own paths, overcoming pressure to conform, learning flexibility from an evangelical Pentecostal church, and collaborating with other artists.

(0:59:39) - The Comparison of Life and Purpose
Discuss expectations, freedom, meaningful experiences, and comparison in relationships.

(1:11:07) - Waiting and Delayed Gratification Challenge
We explore sowing and reaping, instant gratification, and everyday life's waiting.

(1:16:27) - Finding Purpose and Enjoyment in Life
We discuss God's plans, prayer, and reading the Word to understand our assignment.

(1:27:10) - Enjoying Seasons and the Present
Reflection on appreciating current life stages, life as a video game, and social pressure to move forward.

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💻 Connect with Lisa:

• Instagram

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Transcript

[00:01:23] Taylor: Lisa, welcome. We're so excited you're here. Before we get started, I have a question for you. Go ahead. So yesterday, in the morning during rehearsal right, Zion went off on his little tag city doing whatever he was gonna do Yeah. In rehearsal, right? Which song was it? It was, at the end of when I Like Eyes With You.

[00:01:48] Taylor: Yes. Like at the end of rehearsal. Yes. There's like a 10 minute, 

[00:01:51] Lisa: yeah. We had a, like a 

[00:01:52] Taylor: flow type of thing. So here's my question is that during that period of time, you [00:02:00] and Matt somehow telepathically communicated with each other on some hits and what you were doing and it was beautiful. And I wanna know how does that happen?

[00:02:13] Lisa: So we have the chance to play a lot. Like, I mean, we play a lot. Like in the services we are always. Together. So we have learned how to listen to each other. Mm-hmm. and so when one of us would become creative, sometimes it's me, I start something and he is like, oh, that is cool. And like I will watch him and like, tell him what I want or like try to, but how do you, how 

[00:02:39] Cory: do you tell him what you want?

[00:02:40] Cory: Well, 

[00:02:40] Lisa: I mean, we are kind of aligned. 

[00:02:42] Taylor: We are like, you see, but like, do you have like, like eyebrow signals that mean something? 'cause both of you, your hands are taken. Because 

[00:02:49] Lisa: we would be like, I would be like, I don't know, it's the head, it's the little feel like Lisa 

[00:02:52] Cory: communicates with a little shoulder when she gets going too.

[00:02:54] Cory: She got a little 

[00:02:55] Lisa: this, like, I would look at him and I would be like back, 

[00:02:58] Cory: okay. Head and like [00:03:00] mors code. But 

[00:03:00] Lisa: with head knocks, I'll listen to him and I will hear something and I will look at him and I will be like, and then I will go. Right. You know, and like, it's just, I don't know, we just listen a lot to each other.

[00:03:10] Lisa: Right. And like, we just sing in 

[00:03:12] Taylor: your mix, in your ears. Do you have the entire kit or do you just have like snare and kick or. 

[00:03:20] Lisa: No, I have all of it. You have all of it. Because I like to listen my mix more or less as if I was listening a song on Spotify. Hmm. So I am not the type of like musician that have the singers all the way down.

[00:03:34] Lisa: Right. Their own instrument all the way up and the rest somewhere. I am slightly up above Right. The other people to be sure. But then I listen a lot to the bass. So I have bass, guitar, guitar and me a little bit above. And then the drums or like, I don't know exactly where, but like I have to hear all 

[00:03:55] Cory: of it right together.

[00:03:56] Cory: Where do you put the, the drums? Like when you do, like, 'cause we can do the spatial [00:04:00] thing. Mm-hmm. Like, I like to have the kick drum right in the center of my head. 

[00:04:03] Lisa: Oh, that is a good question. Do you ever play with that? I never actually fixed that. As long as I can hear it, that's fine. Okay. 

[00:04:12] Cory: Matt, would you have the same answer?

[00:04:13] Cory: I'm sorry. Like how, how do you, come on, how do you, how do you communicate with Lisa? 

[00:04:18] Lisa: So I was thinking we like kind of tossed softballs up to each other. Like, we'll, like, listen, and I, like, I'll hear a melody that I think needs accented. So I'll be like, I don't know, like I'll, I'll throw something out there that matches that melody and then I'll look over and she'll acknowledge it, she'll like smile and she'll be like, I got it the next time and around, so I'll like, I'll do it again.

[00:04:36] Lisa: And it's kinda the same way back and forth. Mm-hmm. Like, I keep keys pretty high up in my head regardless. So if I hear something that goes out of the norm of what we've been playing, I'm like, okay, it was, that's going where 

[00:04:45] Taylor: I think it's gonna go. It was just yesterday and like, it, it wasn't a song that was on the set list or anything, so it was, it was using the relatively the same chords, but it was just playing.

[00:04:56] Taylor: And I tell you in rehearsal, like, Lisa hit this like [00:05:00] triple hit, like, like once and then the next time Matt hit it with her and then they, it, I mean, repeated like, I dunno, four or five times. Like it wasn't very long. But it just took one of them doing it once and then they, I still think they telepathically communicated well and it was like, 

[00:05:21] Lisa: do this.

[00:05:21] Lisa: I feel like there is also a huge thing about like feeling where the room is going and where the lead is going. Mm-hmm. obviously I have backup Zion a lot and so, well there is obviously like the Holy Spirit behind all of it because of course any, any of it would make sense if he's not there. But then there is that way of like backing up the backup, the person that is leading that makes you also feel what you do behind.

[00:05:48] Lisa: And so I think that we are kind of all lock in, like trying to figure out like where this is going. Mm-hmm. And then when someone starts something that kind of leads in that direction mm-hmm. We cannot look and acknowledge each other and we [00:06:00] just go Right. You 

[00:06:00] Taylor: know? Mm-hmm. It's, it's really interesting 'cause running sound, I do the same thing except I'm looking at the crowd.

[00:06:06] Taylor: Mm-hmm. I'm looking at who's in the room. So you, you're paying, you guys are paying attention to each other. You're paying attention to who's leading. And Corey too. Let's include Corey in this conversation. Corey. Corey can be there. Right. And the MD plays a part in that, obviously, and you're going up and down.

[00:06:20] Taylor: But I am in the back reading the room and that's gonna control what I do in terms of faders going where to, to have them be a part of that moment and move more and get more into it. Yeah. 

[00:06:33] Lisa: Yeah. I mean, I feel like, for example, that those hits, I am not sure I would have done that if, for example, it was Jason leading.

[00:06:41] Lisa: Mm-hmm. Because I feel like it has a different type of feels when we mm-hmm. It come up on stage. So yeah, those are the things that you just, you know, yeah. 

[00:06:50] Taylor: I mean you're, it just works. You're incredibly talented musician, so. Mm-hmm. 

[00:06:53] Lisa: This is questionable. 

[00:06:55] Cory: It's not questionable. I thought I knew the, like my most favorite player, like keyboard player [00:07:00] 

[00:07:00] Lisa: of all time.

[00:07:01] Lisa: You know, I feel like there is a lot of people that play way better than I do. I, 

[00:07:06] Cory: I mean, sure. That's, that's fair. That is fair. I think that people would say that a lot about, like, I think I feel privileged that some people like to play, like, like when I play guitar with them, they're a lot more technically sound and proficient guitarists.

[00:07:17] Cory: But like, I feel like I, one of the things I hope is a strength is like just my ability to like kind of be in the vibe with people. And so like that's the value I add. And, you know, rock moves rock power stance. A strong power stance. Yeah. That's how I com over commentate. Cory, you're great 

[00:07:35] Taylor: at, at playing guitar because you play what you're supposed to play.

[00:07:38] Taylor: I think it's interesting, 

[00:07:39] Lisa: like the idea of, I always thought that like the best musician was the most technically skilled or like could do the craziest fills or the craziest sweeps. Like the best musician is the one with the best feel and knows when. Yes. The, the times that a musician stops playing tells you more about who they are as a musician than times when they are playing.

[00:07:56] Lisa: Whew. 

[00:07:56] Cory: That's well said. That's good. That's well said. Great. Um, but I [00:08:00] thought that I like and I still love, if I could ever play. Sean Carroll get on keys. Mm-hmm. That guy was all over, like, and just so fun. Mm-hmm. And he would just go, but there is a, sweet spot when Lisa's on keys, as you just know, like in, like you just, you never know when a minor cord's coming in.

[00:08:18] Cory: Right. Especially if it comes into a more of a flowy moment. There's gonna be some sort of minor that happens that just feels like, eh, and every, everybody in the man looks at each her and is like, eh, I feel like, and then it's all Lisa, Lisa goes, eyebrows, eyebrows up. So 

[00:08:32] Taylor: there's, I feel like Lisa can and will get to the point that Sean was at if she wants to, because one of the other important things to know about Sean is that Sean was a master MD in his time.

[00:08:48] Taylor: Mm-hmm. And he basically MD four services a day for two years. Wow. And what he also did is he's been playing with a lot of the [00:09:00] like, core people on the team and mm-hmm. Playing behind Jason for years. Yeah. And so like the feel of the room and where it was gonna go. Like what that also meant is because he knew the feel of the room and the band so well and Jason so well.

[00:09:17] Taylor: Mm-hmm. And he was m ding that he could kind of make everybody else go where he was going on the keyboard. He never followed in it. He was 100, which, and it made a lot of sense for him to, and sounded 

[00:09:29] Cory: great. Yep. Yeah. He always said too, he is like, in his opinion, it was like always the best case scenario was for the keyboard player to be the md.

[00:09:37] Cory: Mm-hmm. Because it provided a little bit more flexibility to go like where he wanted to go in his head. Like he could just take over in a sense where if you're a bass player doing emptying, like that's hard. You really need to rely on the keys. To jump in and, and fill our, gives guitars to do spatial stuff.

[00:09:51] Cory: Um, which has been amazing too. Like watching, like as you've started m emptying more, you getting that feel? It is great. It rough. It's rough. 

[00:09:58] Lisa: No, it's [00:10:00] rough. Um, I think that, um, yeah, being a keyboard player definitely gives you the freedom to lead without leading. Even though I'm not m ding, I can still kind of put some influence into what is going on.

[00:10:14] Lisa: Um, the problem with m emptying is like, yes, you can tr you have to be fast at transmitting to other people what you want to do in your head. Like when I'm ing I do not care. Like if Maddie's there, I don't care about being able to tell him he will get it right. But then I have to communicate with the other people.

[00:10:34] Lisa: Mm-hmm. And I'm not always sure how to say what I have in my head. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? That makes it a little bit harder. But then if you can communicate exactly what you think, then yes, it's a good thing in your 

[00:10:46] Taylor: head. Do you speak in a different language? Um, because you know, like 14 languages, 

[00:10:52] Cory: four, this is like where we have to like kind of, we could just talk about the dynamics of a worship team all night, but I feel like we should stop and like pause, [00:11:00] like, and talk, just like, 'cause your experience and who you are is like, That was my transition.

[00:11:05] Taylor: That was your transition? Yes. We're going to languages. Okay. Now tell me about yourself. Why? Great. You did a great job. Languages good. It was my, it was my transition. Great, great. And you just, you cut it off it at the, 

[00:11:15] Cory: at the end? No, I was trying to make sure I was landing the plane on that.

[00:11:22] Taylor: Okay. 

[00:11:22] Cory: Please just speaks multiple languages. Everybody. That's incredible. Why would you speak multiple languages? 'cause she thinks that everybody should speak multiple languages. I agree. Or she thought everybody don't did Yeah, since she came to the United States. Okay. So, 

[00:11:34] Lisa: so I went to Spain before and that's where I realized, so what languages do you speak?

[00:11:38] Lisa: French, which is my first one. Um, Dutch, which is a second language of Belgium. Uh, English and Spanish. 

[00:11:46] Taylor: English. And Spanish. Why do you know four different 

[00:11:51] Lisa: languages? Well, French, because that's the language like I've been raised in too, right. Um, Dutch because, so I'm from Belgium. I'm born in [00:12:00] Belgium. Which is a country that has three national languages.

[00:12:03] Lisa: So French, Dutch, and German. So because the two main languages of the country are French and Dutch, German is like just a small part. You have to learn the other language that you do not speak at home, at school. So I'm born in the south part of the country where we speak French. So at school very early, I think like when you are, well, very early, when you are like 10 years old, you start learning Dutch and like the Dutch people start learning French.

[00:12:30] Lisa: And then later on you have English. Because English is like the international language right now. So you have to be able to express yourself. And then at third, when I was like 15, so that would be your junior year in high school, um, I had the choice between German and Spanish. And because I'm French speaker, Spanish is way easier.

[00:12:52] Lisa: So I decided to learn Spanish. That's it. Why 

[00:12:55] Cory: does, historically, why does Belgium have three national languages? [00:13:00] 

[00:13:00] Lisa: So, because Belgium is not, I was about to say it's not a real country, but Belgium has been, Belgium has been created, it's kind of an artificial construction to make French people in Napoleon back in the day.

[00:13:16] Lisa: To avoid that, Napoleon would try to expand to other countries. They create Belgium. They put a king that was like from Germany, but married to an England woman. Like it's a whole construction to make sure basically that Napoleon will not go over to expand his country like France. And so they just took a piece of land that was like, no, south of like Netherland and like north of France and they kind of created it there.

[00:13:48] Lisa: Um, yeah. What was it 

[00:13:49] Taylor: before Belgium? Was it a part of France 

[00:13:53] Lisa: South? No, it was part of net actually. So there were also like some people [00:14:00] complaining about like not being very, there were minorities in the older country. Mm-hmm. They were part of, so when they wanted to be independent, they were like, yeah, that is actually cool, because if they are independent and we create a whole new country, then France can expand.

[00:14:14] Lisa: So that is actually perfect. Let like they, and be that's a whole like, history dude's 

[00:14:18] Taylor: not just wanna go Google 

[00:14:20] Cory: it all. Yeah. Napoleon in general, like, it was just like a name that I've heard a, obviously you know about him as a movie coming. There's a movie with Joaquin Phoenix. Mm-hmm. And I'm, it looks so good.

[00:14:30] Cory: I was just like, Ridley Scott directed and I was just like, Sunday morning, like just Googling and trying to like, uh, 

[00:14:36] Taylor: I figure out if you can talk about how they formed Belgium to stop him. 

[00:14:39] Lisa: I hope so. Me too. Well, I mean, it was more a consequence. Like they were more like, oh yeah, we'll accept the independence of Belgium because that will serve actually.

[00:14:47] Lisa: Gotcha. The fact that we don't want Napoleon to gotcha extent. So it's a whole thing. 

[00:14:53] Taylor: Okay. So you grew up in Belgium? I did. what age were you when you [00:15:00] left Belgium? 24. Okay. 24 years of your life in Belgium? Yes. Okay. Can you tell me about living life in Belgium? 'cause I'm, I've only ever lived life here, um, in America.

[00:15:11] Lisa: I mean, as a black person, it's very interesting. So I was commenting with, uh, Corey earlier in the corridor. I say I'm Belgium because that's where I come from. My passport is Belgium and I traveled from Brussels to come here, but my parents are from D R C Congo, so the Democratic Republic of Congo.

[00:15:32] Lisa: Mm-hmm. and I consider that I'm half half. So I'm half there, half Belgian. And in Belgium, when you are black, you are automatically not seen as a Belgian person. You are not European, like they know you are from Africa. Anyways. Hmm, Hmm. Um, so that set you up in a, that set me up in a different like perspective because, I was kind of always not really [00:16:00] fitting, you know, I was there, but like, I was kind of the stranger, even though like, I don't have an accent when I speak French.

[00:16:05] Lisa: Like, I'm fine, like I don't understand everything, but I was always like the only black kid, the only black girl, like all the time. So it's a little interesting. But other than that, like the country's fine. I mean, you have the same things that you have here, more or less, like nothing, nothing really crazy to say about it if you do not ask me a question, 

[00:16:27] Taylor: you know?

[00:16:27] Taylor: Right. Except they have three languages. Hmm. 

[00:16:30] Lisa: Yeah. 

[00:16:31] Cory: Yes. It's interesting, I think, um, the thing that struck me the most is, was just thinking that like, 'cause to me, like I, I guess it's just interesting to think that, and it's sad, but like that, that you were so aware of the fact of like feeling like you might be.

[00:16:47] Cory: Other in your home country. And I think of, again, just we share from our limited perspective, which is amazing to have a different perspective. But in my head somehow, I think that that's a very uniquely like us thing.[00:17:00] 

[00:17:01] Taylor: Of what? 

[00:17:02] Cory: Of like not, I mean, not racism, obviously, but like, 'cause it's, but like that is, it's like that's, I guess I just struck, maybe this is naive, but feels sad that you would grow up in a different country that's not in the us which has a hit.

[00:17:18] Cory: Obviously the history of slavery and, um, the Civil War in X, Y, Z, but like in, even in Europe or in Belgium, that that was something that you felt like you were, that it's prejudice. Mm-hmm. Like that, that's like, that's again, that, that exists Sad, but like, I would say, I guess that that exists everywhere.

[00:17:34] Cory: Right? And that, again, I feel very naive to saying it, but like as you were talking, I was just like, oh my gosh. Like that sucks. 

[00:17:40] Lisa: It's just interesting because the perspective is different in United States is a. It's funny that like American is, it's funny to me that America American is like kind of a nationality when you know that everyone come from somewhere else.

[00:17:56] Lisa: Right? Right. Except a melting pot. Yeah. Except people like the Native American. Mm-hmm. [00:18:00] You don't see that much in Belgium is, and in Europe in general is a little bit different because European people are originally white. Mm-hmm. Period. So everything that is not white is originally not European. And so the problem is now, even if you would be a fourth generation, or like a 20th generation African originally born in Belgium, just because of your scholar, in your scholar, your color skin, you are still not considered as a European.

[00:18:34] Lisa: You know what I mean? It's like Yeah, but you're not an original one. So when people ask me if I am, I go to France for example, and people ask me, oh, where are you from? If I say, oh, I'm from Belgium, they will be like, oh, but where are you actually from? Dang. Expecting me to say, oh, which, whatever country from Africa I am from, you know?

[00:18:53] Lisa: Yeah. And 

[00:18:54] Taylor: it was all, I feel like it's also interesting to think about like, not only [00:19:00] that prejudice and that kind of thing, but you said that you were the only black kid. The only black girl. Like the only one. And there were no other black kids that like you grew up with or anything? 

[00:19:12] Lisa: No. So my parents, um, decided to live in a different city.

[00:19:18] Lisa: Okay. Than the one where all the Congolese people were usually like pe people, like most of the black people stay in the capital. Mm-hmm. Like Brussels. I guess because it's easy. I'm not sure. Um, and my parents decided to step out of it and like start something completely different and new. so. When I, where I grew up, like it was only white.

[00:19:41] Lisa: And then my parents obviously wanted us to have the best education. And that is pretty similar with here. Usually the best schools and the best places are the ones that are where all the white people are. And so that's where we went to school. and so yeah, like maybe like I graduated from high [00:20:00] school in 20, no, 2009.

[00:20:04] Lisa: That's a long time ago and not that 

[00:20:07] Taylor: long ago. And I, Corey graduated from high school in 1987, so You're fine. 

[00:20:11] Lisa: Oh wow. Um, anyways, that's not 

[00:20:14] Cory: true. You said don't listen to 

[00:20:15] Lisa: anybody. And we were four black kids. Okay. Out of probably 300 kids. Wow. So yeah, 

[00:20:31] Cory: that's not. You said your parents went to start something new, like that's why they didn't go to the Capitol.

[00:20:37] Cory: What were they, what were they doing? 

[00:20:38] Lisa: Well, so when my dad became a pastor, 'cause my dad Wask baby a pastor, he took, the leadership of a church that was in like another like province, like another state. It's not a state, it's a province. Um, because the thing is also like, there is a lot of like black African [00:21:00] originated churches in Brussels.

[00:21:02] Lisa: And so it would just be one other African church. And my dad just got an opportunity to do something different and he just like, yeah, take the lead of a different church that was white actually. 

[00:21:15] Taylor: So they went there and your parents took over a church? Yeah. So you grew up in church? Yes. Did you. Always play worship music.

[00:21:30] Taylor: Yes. Or sing. 

[00:21:32] Cory: Why did, why, why that response? Why that? Yes. 

[00:21:35] Lisa: because it was actually being in the worship was not really a choice. so in Belgium to learn, and it's not like here when you are in school and you have like your sports and like music program attached to your school. In Belgium, your school is just academics, like math, science, whatever.

[00:21:54] Lisa: And then aside from that, you have to go somewhere else to learn like music or sports. And [00:22:00] my dad wanted us to, we all four, like I have three siblings, wanted us all to learn to play keys because my dad was actually back in the days, a choir director. He songs, he plays guitar. and so he always has been into music and he wanted us to be into music.

[00:22:20] Lisa: So he put us at the music school when we were little. So we were going to school and then going to the music school as well. And when we were old enough to not go to Sunday school anymore. So like when you reach, what? 12 maybe 13? Mm-hmm. It was like, okay, now you'll play at church. And I played at church.

[00:22:40] Cory: So did you stop, like formal training at that point? Is or did you take continue, 

[00:22:44] Lisa: like your formal training? No, the formal training was from when I was eight until when I was 17. It was a solid 10 years of classic piano. 

[00:22:52] Taylor: Hmm, interesting. Okay. So you live there for 20 and I feel like there's a [00:23:00] gajillion things that we could dig into about your past.

[00:23:04] Taylor: Do we wanna stay there? Do we want to move up in the timeline? Let's 

[00:23:07] Cory: move up. Okay. Unless you, do you have something else you wanna kind Oh, we good? All right. So what happens when you're 24? Right. 

[00:23:15] Lisa: well then we have to backtrack a little bit. Okay. Because you asked the wrong question. Just, just to give, um, the, no, it's just to go over work.

[00:23:25] Lisa: So I got, graduated in 20, no, at 22. Mm-hmm. Um, I start working for that consulting company in engineering. Mm-hmm. They do railway and they, the particularity of, um, consulting is just like in that setup. I mean, it's just like basically they send you in different project in different companies and then when the company doesn't need you, they just get rid of you.

[00:23:48] Lisa: So it allows me, that sounds so violent. No, but like, it's like, you know, when a project, like if they have to restructure or they don't have resources, it's easier to [00:24:00] fire the consultant than to fire an employee. Sure. You know what I mean? So they like to have some consultant here and there. So that they are assured that like if they don't have budget anymore, like those are the first ones to go and they don't have to like fire employees, which was good for me because I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do and I get bored very fast.

[00:24:18] Lisa: So having the opportunity to change different project often without looking bad, like, oh my God, she's not stable, she's changing all the time. Well, the consultant give you like the opportunity to just switch, like the project was over. It's not my fault when you say 

[00:24:33] Cory: like, you get bored quickly. Yeah. Like what is that?

[00:24:35] Cory: Like what 

[00:24:36] do 

[00:24:36] Lisa: you, um, I need to learn all the time and so my, depending of what it is, my learning curve can be long or not. And so I learned first, so I'm super excited about the project. Then I have like that cruise phase where like I like have it all together and like I can [00:25:00] like do everything and like I enjoy it.

[00:25:02] Lisa: But then when I've seen it all, I'm like, okay, yeah, that's dumb. Let's, let's do something else. 

[00:25:08] Taylor: Well then consulting is a perfect job 

[00:25:10] Cory: for 

[00:25:10] Lisa: you. It's, yeah, exactly. So I wanted to go to Spain and that company had project in Spain. So I worked two years and a half in Belgium and then I switched to a project in Spain.

[00:25:22] Lisa: So that was when I was 24 and I left for the Basque country, um, in Spain, north of Spain. And I stayed there for two years and a half before I came here. 

[00:25:34] Taylor: So you left Belgium after, so after graduating, you worked in Belgium for two and a half years. Mm-hmm. Then you went to Spain and you stayed in Spain for two and a half years.

[00:25:43] Taylor: Exactly. Okay. Your experience of being like the outsider and feeling that way because of the color of your skin and all that, was it the same in Spain as it was in Belgium? 

[00:25:54] Lisa: I was a little worse. but people were nicer though. But like I definitely stuck [00:26:00] out. Wait. That's right. You're right. Yeah. Stood out.

[00:26:03] Lisa: Okay. Stood out. Um, more because, so in that part of Spain specifically, the, I guess I would have a, had a different experience if I was in Madrid, like the capital, because I have been there a few times and like I really loved it. Um, the north of Spain, which I actually loved. So I have no problem with the people there, but they are like very, they have a very strong cultural identity.

[00:26:27] Lisa: Mm-hmm. Like the Basque country, they're all like Basque and like, they, like, their culture is really important for them and they have their own language and like, it's very different. And so first of all, I stick out because I was like the French speaker coming like out of nowhere. Mm-hmm. But then I was black and then I am an engineer, but like in the engineering field, you don't have a lot of female neither.

[00:26:49] Lisa: Mm-hmm. So I was black and a female. Right. And coming from another country. So that was like, like the super combo of like, Yeah, being super [00:27:00] different. And also, like I arrived there, I was 24, but the people that were working with me were already like 32, 33. Yeah. So I was also the youngest, like I've been the youngest at my job for at least until like I reached 25 or 26 years old.

[00:27:14] Lisa: So, yeah. So I'm curious. So when I was 24, I moved from Toledo to Pittsburgh and I moved three hours away. Yeah. And I had to fully restart. And the amount of stress and anxiety I was under moving to three hours away was insane. How was it for you moving to an entirely different country? Well, first the thing is it's only two and a half hours from my parents.

[00:27:41] Lisa: Like Spain was only two and a half hour driving, um, flying from my parents, so not that far. So I feel you. Mm-hmm. And then, it's crazy because like. You are in a new country, different language, different administration. Like you have to think about like the taxes, getting an apartment. You do not know nobody there.

[00:27:59] Lisa: Mm-hmm.[00:28:00] I think that for the first six months of that year, I questioned why I actually decided to leave until like I got to a more comfortable spot. But yeah, it's crazy. Hmm. And then 

[00:28:13] Taylor: you moved to the US Yes. And went like what, eight hour flight? 

[00:28:20] Lisa: Yes. That is eight hour flight. Well, eight hour to New York and then it's one hour to here, so.

[00:28:26] Taylor: Right. So did you move directly from like Spain to the US or you went back to Belgium? 

[00:28:32] Lisa: I went back to Belgium for one month, the time. Okay. For my visa and everything. Mm-hmm. Like all the paperwork to be done and then I came here for work. Um, so it's the same company.

[00:28:42] Lisa: Actually, they, offered me to come here. Like that was absolutely not on my to-do list to come to live in the us. I knew that I wanted to visit the US because like everyone has to go to New York once in their life, I guess. Yeah, that's a great city. That's what people tell us in Europe, you [00:29:00] know? So if you have the opportunity, just go there.

[00:29:02] Lisa: but I have, I was not actually attracted to live in the us. I was just like, yeah, I mean, it's cool to visit and that's it. but I feel like that was definitely like a God led move more than a me move. Like Spain, I wanted to go to Spain and I think that God allows it, like it was fine, but the US is definitely like God wanted me to come here and I just followed like I was fine in Spain.

[00:29:27] Lisa: I could have stayed there or I could have gone back in Belgium. So, That was like a face 

[00:29:32] Cory: type of move. I'm interested, I think right away too of now, like you've had the opportunity. So you've, you, would you say you were like cons, like consistent in your faith or practicing your faith, like going to a, like a regularly scheduled service in the three different countries?

[00:29:47] Cory: Yes. Right. So like what has that experience been like for you to experience church in three different places? Like is there a difference? I don't. 

[00:29:58] Lisa: The thing is I [00:30:00] have been raised, so my dad was a pastor, but my dad also made sure, of course he kept us in his church, but he made sure that we had different church experiences.

[00:30:11] Lisa: So we have been like, he was reading a pretty. A white, very like, um, kind of structured type of church. But then we went to Pentecostal churches, we went to evangelical churches. And you like make a, made a point to tell us there is different type of churches. Mm-hmm. You will not have always the same services.

[00:30:30] Lisa: People will not preach always the same in this church. There are more this and that. And so I've been exposed to so much different thing and it was just like pointing that, okay, the core of your message is like, it's Jesus. If we're not talking about Jesus and about God, like Jesus being the son of God and like, um, that he's the one true whom we are saved, that is not a good church.

[00:30:53] Lisa: Other than that, like it's fine. Like you will see so many different like type of things. [00:31:00] And so changing country didn't like, bother, like it was not a factor of like, oh, the face is different. No. Like I have seen different churches, so it was just another different one, you know? 

[00:31:11] Taylor: So. So when you went to Spain mm-hmm.

[00:31:16] Taylor: You went to church, you found a church. 

[00:31:18] Lisa: So I first found a church in Spain, but then I was a border at the border between Spain and France. So I ended up going in a church in France instead of staying in a church in 

[00:31:29] Taylor: Spain. Gotcha. And was it also like a church similar to your father's, where it was very structured in, or like 

[00:31:39] Lisa: you It was a non-denominational type of church, but more structured.

[00:31:44] Lisa: Right? 

[00:31:45] Cory: Like when we say structured, what do we mean? 

[00:31:48] Lisa: so in my dad, Church, like the service was always exactly the same. We had like two songs to start. Danny was saying something, then we had two songs, then it was like [00:32:00] offering and then we were preaching and then we had one song. Like anything you've ever been, 

[00:32:03] Taylor: like you've ever experienced, Corey?

[00:32:06] Lisa: It was like every Sunday was the same structure and like every, each time you like the songs, everyone knew each song. You don't have that much new songs. Or if they are like, you have to prepare the congregation that we will have a new song and like mm-hmm. You know, it was like a whole thing. 

[00:32:24] Taylor: so then you come to the US Yes.

[00:32:29] Taylor: And have you been in Pittsburgh the whole time? Yes. Okay. And how long have you been coming to Amplify? For? Since I've been here. Okay. 

[00:32:37] Cory: Couple years, right? A 

[00:32:37] Lisa: couple years. Uh, yeah. It will be four years. Yeah. 

[00:32:41] Taylor: Geez. And so you come to. Pittsburgh and you find Amplify. But Amplify is non-denominational, but 100% leans towards Pentecostal charismatic side.

[00:32:54] Taylor: Well now, 

[00:32:55] Cory: right. Was it that way when you 

[00:32:57] Lisa: came? I feel like when I came, it was [00:33:00] way more structured. Mm-hmm. It was more stick to the plan. Did you come 

[00:33:04] Taylor: after, by the time that you came, was Jason already senior pastor or 

[00:33:09] Lisa: no? Yes. I came when it was the second time at History Center, so I did Easter Center, Hillman.

[00:33:15] Lisa: Okay. Mm-hmm. And then I knew. 

[00:33:17] Taylor: Okay. Did you ever play worship at History Center at Hillman 

[00:33:21] Lisa: Hillman? I did. I started at Hillman. Okay. 

[00:33:24] Taylor: And, well, Hillman was, I feel like it was the 

[00:33:28] Lisa: beginning. 

[00:33:29] Taylor: Hillman, there were some crazy services that went way off the 

[00:33:33] Lisa: track. It was the beginning because I remember, 

[00:33:37] Taylor: I don't mean way off the track in a bad way, by the way.

[00:33:39] Taylor: No, I think what you mean 

[00:33:40] Cory: is like some, when we're sometimes you're put in situations and that strips us of things. Right? So Hillman and being in that venue stripped, amplify city of certain like production value, thing, sort, 

[00:33:52] Taylor: ability. It was acoustic set essentially. 

[00:33:54] Lisa: Yes. It was. It always that weird drum that was just like the square, different colors.

[00:33:58] Taylor: It was [00:34:00] very bare bones, like production 

[00:34:01] Cory: and work, but sometimes like when you're forced to be, not people would say like, when you get out of the way, God can move. Mm-hmm. And in a sense, when some of that stuff was stripped away, that we put a lot of value in and I think was, there was a lot of good to the things, right.

[00:34:15] Cory: We have a lot of that back now. Right. But it allowed a moment for God to work in the congregation and through the leadership and through the church and the people and the worship team to experiencing something new that has now we've taken the best parts of Hillman, I think, and applied those Yeah. To a more, you know, state.

[00:34:32] Cory: We're not tearing down and setting up every day. Right. Or every week. 

[00:34:36] Lisa: Yeah, that's a good point. 

[00:34:38] Taylor: But how do you, how do you feel about that now? Like being in a, a church that's much different than I would imagine I've ever been there than I would imagine that the church that you grew up in it, like, does it feel different or are you sticking with the, like, we're talking about Jesus and so we're good.

[00:34:56] Taylor: Like, 

[00:34:57] Lisa: so my dad started leading a church [00:35:00] when I was 20 or 22, I think. Okay. So after that I went to a more like Evangelical Pentecostal type of church where you leave the square, like structured thing to go complete. Gotcha. Like I knew when the service was starting and I never knew when I would be off.

[00:35:18] Lisa: Gotcha. It was a super dressy type of church. Like, I have seen some fun stuff there. Um, I was in the worship team and just as an anecdote, like. Here we flow, but like kind of structured there. I have been in services like, not the Sunday service, but like Oh, sometimes the Sunday service where the worship leader will invent a song in life.

[00:35:42] Lisa: Mm-hmm. And as a keyboard player, you are expected to follow whatever they do, and if you don't, you are the bad guy. Right. Nobody caress about like Yeah. I mean he just made that up. No, no, no. You also made something up. Right. Um, and we have have some like crazy prayer [00:36:00] services where that was not on Sunday, but like have like an intercession like type of thing.

[00:36:04] Lisa: Mm-hmm. Where the person that will lead the prayer, like the prayer time would want to. Sing, but they cannot sing. So you are playing in C. They will start a song in a key that is between F sharp and G and you have to catch them up and make something happen. Yeah. So then after that, when you come to amplify, it's fine.

[00:36:28] Cory: Yeah. Right. It's not that bad. The other thing that I think just pause too is like, just a part of your crazy experiences that you also had the like, just acknowledge, hang on. But like, what was it like you had the opportunity to sing with Maverick City. Yeah. In their choir. So like let's just acknowledge that.

[00:36:46] Cory: Yeah. That's pretty freaking awesome. Amazing. How 

[00:36:47] Lisa: was it? That was actually, I just did it for the fun side of it. Um, I always, uh, should I say that I like to sing, and I always like to [00:37:00] sing in a choir setup environment. and so. When I, I don't remember how I saw that they were auditioning for a choir and I just decided that I wanted to go just for fun.

[00:37:14] Lisa: Mm-hmm. And see what happened. And I remember one week before the audition, I was like, what am I even doing? Because like here in the US like people when it's about singing are so serious. Like people know how to sing. Like when you watch shows of people singing, like people know how to sing in Belgium when you look at the voice, but like the Belgium version, uh, like, like the first round you have random people.

[00:37:40] Lisa: So I was like, I will go there and I will meet people that are most likely worship leaders in their own church. People that are like, um, like that do music for a living. And I will just show up like, Hey, I just wanna sing in a choir. You know? And then it end up like I end up passing the audition and the experiences.

[00:37:59] Lisa: Great. [00:38:00] Like singing with a lot of people that can sing and like having the opportunity to worship on a stage like at such that has such an impact is something that you can definitely not take for granted. I was like, wow, this is definitely amazing. So 

[00:38:13] Taylor: how much were you on, were you with them for the entire 

[00:38:15] Lisa: tour?

[00:38:16] Lisa: I didn't do the entire tour. Yeah, I did Pittsburgh for sure. Columbus. Nashville. Memphis, Jacksonville, Philly. That's amazing. Uh, and Minnesota somewhere? Uh, Minneapolis. Yeah. Minneapolis probably. 

[00:38:30] Cory: Yeah. 

[00:38:33] Lisa: Uh, I think that's, oh, I did eight or nine shows. Yeah. 

[00:38:38] Taylor: So you, you toured with Maverick City Music? 

[00:38:40] Lisa: Yes, I did.

[00:38:41] Lisa: How did you develop as a musician through that time of touring? it's fascinating to watch them play and like listen to songs that we sing at church, but hearing them in a different way, like, you know, JIRA, everyone knows it. Like, um, well now we are doing a [00:39:00] lot, um, rest on us, but at the time, like, I heard it, but like, not really, but like, you see them like playing them, like adding those little flavors because for them it's like they do the exact same thing like every day for six months.

[00:39:13] Lisa: So they have to make it flavorful for them too. Like to still have fun, right? Mm-hmm. And so when you compare one show to the other, like I was literally like trying to have a spot behind the keyboard player so I could watch everything I was doing and wow. No, it makes me hear the same songs, like a different way.

[00:39:30] Lisa: Mm-hmm. Wow. You know? Yeah. Hmm. 

[00:39:32] Taylor: Okay. Did you spend any time at all with any of the like Maverick City, Chandler Moore? 

[00:39:37] Lisa: No, we were like completely separate. Separate space. Completely separate. We barely see them on stage. Like it's like the choir is one thing and the group is one thing 

[00:39:46] Taylor: and there's a lot of lights and things like 

[00:39:48] Lisa: that too.

[00:39:49] Lisa: Yeah. Well, I mean even in the backstage though, we just like are in separate spaces. Yeah. So you might cross them in a hallway, but like, yeah, that's it. 

[00:39:57] Taylor: But 

[00:39:57] Cory: that, was that a disappointment? [00:40:00] Not really. You're 

[00:40:01] Lisa: like, well, yes and no. You have have that expectation that you're like, oh, I will met them. Like I really wanted to met Kirk Franklin because I grew up with his music.

[00:40:11] Lisa: Sure. And it was funny because the first year I came in Pittsburgh, literally one month later, he was in a concert here in Pittsburgh and I went to see him and I got a picture with him and I sent it to my parents because I knew. And so I was like, wow. I went from listening to his music to be on stage with him.

[00:40:28] Lisa: And that is like, Like what is the odd that that happened in the time in the life, you know? So yeah. But then the rest was just like, oh, well, I mean, it's a job. You come a job a ministry. Sure. But like, you do not come for the people you are singing with, you know, 

[00:40:42] so. 

[00:40:43] Cory: Yeah. Right. That's a good 

[00:40:44] Taylor: perspective.

[00:40:44] Taylor: That's amazing. Yeah. So have you gone back home 

[00:40:46] Lisa: since you've been here? Yeah, last time was actually January. 

[00:40:51] Taylor: January this year. Okay. So you see your parents and your siblings? Yes. And once a year at least 

[00:40:58] Lisa: I try to, yeah. Yeah. [00:41:00] 

[00:41:00] Cory: Still a lot. It takes a lot. There's a lot of courage there. There is a lot.

[00:41:03] Cory: And it, I think it's, there's like a sense of adventure I think that you have to have to be willing to say like, I'm gonna like leave the things I know the place the family like you always you care about. And say like, I'm gonna explore what I can find out, like what this life has for me too. Like that's 

[00:41:20] Taylor: what, what would, so you'd say a sense of adventure, right.

[00:41:24] Taylor: What would we call the sense, I don't know, it could be a sense of adventure, it could be something else, but what do we call the sense that, it sounds like to me that the experience, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the experience that you've had since you were a child is you were always different and you were always going against the grain.

[00:41:43] Taylor: Right. And whether that be by choice Right. Or whether that be forced upon you, not by choice at all. Right. But you even talk about, you know, you go to Spain and even, uh, you're a different color. You speak a different language, you look different, you're a different [00:42:00] gender than a lot of what's in engineering.

[00:42:02] Taylor: You're female. Right? Right. Right. Yeah. And then you go into the fact that you're younger than everybody. Right. And so it feels like to me that your entire life, you've been going against the grain and it hasn't stopped you. And it hasn't, like, from my perspective, it hasn't stopped you and it hasn't slows you down.

[00:42:20] Taylor: Do you agree or disagree with that? 

[00:42:24] Lisa: Um, I mean, it hasn't been easy every day. Um, part of it is like, I love, I usually love what I do and like the steps that I takes makes me happy. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, sticking out all the time is kind of a burden. And there is some days I wish I was like normal and like some of my closest friend know I say that, sorry all the time.

[00:42:52] Lisa: Well, often that sometimes I wish I was just normal, but 

[00:42:55] Taylor: some What do you, what do you mean by 

[00:42:57] Lisa: just normal? Like having a more classic [00:43:00] life, you know, like I'm 30 what one now and maybe I will. Change country again, like I don't even know, like people at 31 are probably like thinking about like, yeah.

[00:43:10] Lisa: Studying, setting up, like having their house, like kids, whatever. And I'm like, well maybe I should go to Australia before I'm 40. You know what I mean? Love that. And so sometimes I'm like, um, you have that. So my life is fun, but at the same time, sometimes I'm like, am I actually missing out on something I should be doing that I'm not doing?

[00:43:35] Lisa: You know? But then you have like that God side where you like, well, if God wanted me to be normal, put the quotes on normal. Right. Whatever normal means. Um, it would have made me in a different setup. Like I said, that like coming here was definitely a God's move more than a me move. Right. Um, and there is something about fighting [00:44:00] yourself is actually harder.

[00:44:02] Lisa: Mm-hmm. Then. Trying to fit. Wow. And so you're just like, but then it hurts you more to try to, to fit, sorry, than to fight yourself. Hmm. Right. And so you, like, you are in between that, in between like, okay, do I just stop and like I follow everyone, but then you're unhappy, so you go with what makes you better?

[00:44:24] Lisa: Like what God's, you feel like God puts in your heart, but then you're like, yeah, but then I'm sticking out more. Should I keep doing that? And 

[00:44:32] Cory: it's like the word that I would substitute for some of this, when we were saying normal in this context, I think, would it be, would a different word or be typical?

[00:44:45] Cory: Yeah. Usual, right? Yeah. Sometimes it's like, it's just easier to be typical. Yeah. But, and just to have it. But yeah, at its core, like the people that are typical, what do they want? Like at their core? I guess the person that's typical. I mean, I could, I, they were looking for something that is [00:45:00] exceptional, right?

[00:45:01] Taylor: I think what's crazy is, is that like, To be clear, I don't regret my life by any means, but I think that up until a couple years ago, a lot of people have said I had a very normal or typical, or ex, I would actually call it expected. Mm. Life expected is a good word. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Where I went to high school, I went to college, I graduated, I got a job, I got married.

[00:45:25] Taylor: Right. Spent a couple of years married, working a a, a day job, had kids. So like I, I followed a path that I feel like is, is a typical or a very expected path. Right. And for you 

[00:45:45] Cory: in the way that you were raised, correct, correct. And your 

[00:45:46] Taylor: demographic work, my experience, you know, all of that. Um, and I think what's crazy is, is that like, sure, I got married.

[00:45:55] Taylor: I got married very young. I got married at 21. Okay. So we're the same [00:46:00] age, and this year I've been married for 10 years. So it's a big difference there. Right? Definitely. But I think that even at the 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, like that age range where you were moving countries from your, where you grew up to Spain, to then to the us like Brooke and I would've done anything to be able to do that.

[00:46:24] Taylor: To just go out to the world and like obviously you're working, like you're doing everything you have to do, but from like, I remember my perspective 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years ago, like we both grew up in and born and raised in North Carolina and us moving to Pittsburgh was because we wanted to get out and explore.

[00:46:43] Taylor: Yeah. Right. But if we had had the option, I. To go overseas to go do something that was like wild. Mm-hmm. Like it was way out of expectations. Mm-hmm. It was not typical. Right. Like, we would've done it in a heartbeat because that was [00:47:00] what we thought we would've wanted. Mm-hmm. We would've liked. Yeah. And you are living that life and going, Hey, wait a second, what if, what if I should have Right.

[00:47:12] Taylor: Settled down somewhere and like, you know, you know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like, I feel like it's one of these things where it's like, is the grass greener on the other side? Like Yeah. But God also has a plan and I think I'm in a place. You're in a place and it's 

[00:47:25] Cory: because we're supposed to be there. Yeah.

[00:47:27] Cory: I agree. And it's so hard to not, like, what's the, the quote about comparison being like the thief of joy. It's exactly. Oh, absolutely. You know? Right. Um, you're always comparing your worst against someone else's best and, and Yeah, that's so true. Or our normal against somebody else's best. Mm-hmm. Like, it's like, um, But again, this kinda gets us to like kind of this idea and this topic of like, of, I think comparison is a part of it, but like of like the seasons of our lives and how, um, how do we, how do we deal with that healthily?

[00:47:55] Cory: And I think a lot of times whenever we we're not doing that, we're looking at somebody else doesn't having a [00:48:00] different experience or in a different season, or X, Y, Z and we're saying, well, I kinda wanna be in that season now too. so yeah. Maybe 

[00:48:08] Taylor: What season do you think you're in right now, Lisa? 

[00:48:10] Lisa: It is a huge question.

[00:48:12] Lisa: It is. What do you define as a season? I guess, um, like what type of answer are you expecting? 

[00:48:19] Taylor: Because I think it's one of these things around, if we're gonna dive into seasons, then, um, if, if you had to put, you know, A couple of adjectives is a couple of of descriptive words around the season that you're in right now.

[00:48:35] Taylor: How would you describe your life right now? 

[00:48:41] Lisa: I think it's a season of a restoring and building. I don't know exactly where God is leading me, but I know that all the different things that I'm doing right now, even those I do not make sense together are leading to a certain path. Like I feel like [00:49:00] in five years from here I'll be like, whoa, 

[00:49:03] Taylor: for sure.

[00:49:04] Taylor: How do you know that? How do you know that all the different things you're doing that don't seem like they connect but they are will lead you to that? Like how do you know that? Um, 

[00:49:14] Lisa: because I think I. That God, um, gives us different like gifting and usually your calling is linked, related to one or several of yours.

[00:49:27] Lisa: And I know that, and I don't say that out of pride, but one of the main thing that God has given me is to be able to learn a lot of things and like being able to transmit them or like ute them or use them. And so that puts me in so much different configuration. And if I take for example, the example of worship, like I am not the best keyboard player.

[00:49:53] Lisa: I'm not the best singer, neither am I the best md. But because I'm able to [00:50:00] understand all of it together, I can have a good, I can be a good support. Mm-hmm. Like I'm more like a background person, not more so much a frontline. But then because I am able to like understand how it all works together. There is something more I can bring to actually every group of people.

[00:50:18] Lisa: And so I feel like that is, that translate to different things in my life because I'm an engineer, but I am also kind of a keyboard. I'm a keyboard player, but at the same time I love dancing and then I go to the gym and then like there is so much faces of me that do not make sense altogether, but I feel like it's leading somewhere.

[00:50:40] Lisa: Yeah. Even though I don't know where, but I just like, I'm supposed to keep building on it and see wherever we go. I have 

[00:50:47] Matt: so many 

[00:50:48] Cory: questions. I can go there. My first question was like, do you, so when you say you go to the gym, for anybody that doesn't know, and this is just what I get from like social media, like Lisa's like a legit powerlifter.

[00:50:57] Cory: Legit, it's like, like are you competing? This is [00:51:00] off topic. I was supposed 

[00:51:01] Lisa: supposed to start competing this year, but I injured myself, 

[00:51:04] Cory: so I have to wait. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Back to your question. Sorry. 

[00:51:08] Matt: To the real questions. Yes, I was interested. Okay. Um, the season that you're in right now Yes. Do you wish it would pass and you would move on to the next season?

[00:51:19] Matt: Ah, that's a good question. Damn right. It is. Okay. Cut 

[00:51:25] Cory: that out. We'll cut that out. I'm sorry. No, leave it in. Leave it in. I didn't resist myself in. I couldn't resist myself. 

[00:51:31] Lisa: Um, wow. It's a hard question. I, I would say yes because of how hard it is, but I have to say no because everything after will only make sense because of what I'm going through now.

[00:51:47] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah. Does that make sense? That's a good, yeah. Great perspective. So, no, we cannot cut it. I, if we couldn't make it easier though, I would appreciate it, but how 

[00:51:55] Matt: long do you feel like you have currently been in the season that you're in? [00:52:00] Um, 

[00:52:02] Lisa: longer than I thought because it took different phases. I feel like the first part was more when I start traveling and like, like I left countries and left country again.

[00:52:15] Lisa: Um, I feel like it was more type of building more my career path, like mm-hmm. My, the side of my identity that is more related to engineering and now it's more the side that is like more emotional. Um, like what is my deep down me and like what got actually called me to do, um, on a deeper level that is not just career related.

[00:52:40] Lisa: Mm-hmm. So it's a completely different phase than what it was before. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know. Few years for 

[00:52:46] Cory: sure. Yeah. So this is like whenever we were kind of like texting and talking about like, um, Getting you like to come on. And we always throw it out to people and be like, what are, what are you interested in?

[00:52:58] Cory: Like, what do you wanna talk about most? [00:53:00] And, and your response to me on Instagram, 'cause we hadn't exchanged telephone numbers yet, um, but you said the, the topic that keeps coming up in, uh, is this idea of like life paths. Mm-hmm. Which is also seen like we're all on different ones and how we do not go through the same season at the same time.

[00:53:17] Cory: Whether that's singleness relationships mainly, but like also ministry work. Mm-hmm. X, y, Z. Mm-hmm. Um, and so like, this is the thing that's popping up in your head of this idea of like processing and dealing with the fact that like, acknowledging that we're all on different paths, we're all on different seasons.

[00:53:32] Cory: Like what, what have you, what experiences have you been going through? What have you been, uh, thinking about? What have you been seeing maybe in people in your circles that has made that thought, I guess continue to pop up in your mind? 

[00:53:45] Lisa: Well, so we kinda touched it a little bit before, but because I always stick that, I always stick out.

[00:53:51] Lisa: Um, when, so it start back, like obviously when I was in high school, I was younger, black kid, blah, blah, blah. But then [00:54:00] I graduated, I got my master when I was 22, but when I was 22, all my friends were still in college when I started working. And so I was kind of in advance. And then the logical path after that, like what everyone was expecting me to do, people at church, my parents, whatever, everyone was expecting me to be married at 25.

[00:54:21] Lisa: Mm-hmm. And what do I do at 24? I change country now I change country. I go to Spain and now my friends all graduated. Mm-hmm. And then they are all in a relationship and then they start getting married around 25, 26. And what do I do when everyone is getting married? I go to the US And so my parents are, are you 

[00:54:41] Cory: running from something?

[00:54:43] Matt: Are you, what do you, are you running from someone? Are you wanted, is there a warning? Who did 

[00:54:51] Cory: you kill? I'm just 

[00:54:52] Lisa: going further. Further. 

[00:54:54] Matt: That's why she wants to go to Australia. Right. It's even further 

[00:54:58] Lisa: next time, you know, I'm on the moon. Right. [00:55:00] And so 

[00:55:02] Matt: did you rob a bank? Like what do, what happened? 

[00:55:05] Lisa: It's a secret.

[00:55:06] Lisa: Okay. I not say it clear. Next chapter. Got 

[00:55:08] Cory: it. You can tell us, just do it in a different language. We 

[00:55:10] Lisa: won't. Yeah, exactly. Nobody understands. Um, and so then now when I coming back, like people are starting having kids and all the things, and I'm coming back and people are like, okay, so you, when are you getting married?

[00:55:23] Lisa: I'm like, uh, I don't know. And then it's funny because then I come here and then most of the people I met here, When I arrived were single or in a relationship, but nobody was, well, not nobody, but like most of the people I met here were not married at the time, but now almost all the people that I know here are also like married or like engaged or like, you know, and so I am still sticking out now and now.

[00:55:52] Lisa: Mm-hmm. I was at the in advance when I was 22 and now I'm kinda late at 32. And so it's just like [00:56:00] funny how the path of my life has been so different and unpredictable. Like I couldn't even know, like if you would ask me at 18 what I wanted, where I see on myself 10 years later, I was probably about to tell you, well, I would be married with maybe three kids and mm-hmm we are like, 11 years later and I'm not even close.

[00:56:27] Lisa: So, um, 

[00:56:29] Cory: to that, that idea. Yeah. To that. Yeah. What you thought it would 

[00:56:32] Lisa: be. Yeah, exactly. And so when I see now people that are like younger and like struggling and saying, oh yeah, but I want to be in a relationship, or other people that are like, yeah, but I wish my career was like there and I am seeing this person that is already graduated or they already bought a house, or they are investing, and I'm like, still like struggling to pay my bills.

[00:56:53] Lisa: I'm like, yeah, but your path is completely different. Look at what you have done already. Like that is something that those other people [00:57:00] were not doing when they were your age. So obviously you're there, but like in 10 years of from here, you will be in a different situation, you know? Um, do you 

[00:57:09] Cory: feel like you've like tried to force yourself out, like out of your current situation at all?

[00:57:15] Cory: Like to the track of you seeing, like you just because you brought up relationships a lot. Mm-hmm. Like, have you found yourself like trying to force that. Or 

[00:57:22] Lisa: have you been? No. Okay. No, because I, that's a whole different topic, but relationships are, it's a whole different, like, level of life. I feel like when you are by yourself, everything that you do only have consequences on yourself.

[00:57:42] Lisa: Um, so if I decide tomorrow that I go to Australia, my parents will be sad. Yes. But that's about the only consequence that I will have. Um, when you are in a relationship, every single decision that you make [00:58:00] is based on how, like it'll impact the other person. And so I feel like before you are ready to make compromise for someone else, you have to be sure that you have made for yourself everything you wanted to do, so that then it doesn't have an impact on the other person after.

[00:58:18] Matt: Interesting. Hmm. That's so interesting. No, it, it is. Because I'm thinking, so we have to understand that Brooke and I, my wife and I started dating in high school. Okay. Okay. Before we were 18. Wow. And so my entire adult life where I could actually make decisions or I had any sort of finances to be able to do anything or like anything that really mattered.

[00:58:49] Matt: Right. I have been in an a relationship. 

[00:58:54] Lisa: So do you think that there are stuff that, nothing that you regret anything right now, but would [00:59:00] other there stuff that you wish you would have done before that you cannot do now? No. Okay. 

[00:59:05] Matt: Then there are things that I want to do, but I don't have any regrets because here's the thing, is that anything that I want to do, I want to do it with Brooke.

[00:59:17] Matt: Okay. Does that make sense? 

[00:59:21] Cory: Yeah. And I think that that's a key difference of knowing, I think, I don't think all people, I I say to, it's about doing life with the right person. Correct. When you find that person Correct. Changes. Um, so that could happen at 21. Yes. Or 18. And then, and then all of your value in life is about sharing these meaningful experiences together.

[00:59:44] Cory: Yes. That's good. Absolutely. And I think that if you try to force that onto somebody where people get married and young because they think that's the expectation, so it's, you always take the first person that shows interest in you and you're like, I can, this is, yeah, that's good. This like, you feel pressured into it.

[00:59:56] Cory: And then that's where I think people get really lost because it's like, I actually, [01:00:00] like, I don't know that I wanna do all these experiences together, or maybe we're not even like compatible that we have the same interests. And so like your torn, you feel like then you end up being 45 years old, which I think, I mean obviously divorce is a huge.

[01:00:12] Cory: Thing over 50% I think, right. Of marriages and divorce. And I think it's because they find people made these decisions to do life with somebody that they don't actually want to do life with. Right. And so they feel like they're actually missing out. They've compromised themselves. So I think that until you, you know, until we could say God brings that person into your life.

[01:00:33] Cory: Right. Um, again, 'cause you were married very young. I got married later in life. Really old. But I think it's, and, and sometimes I don't know, like I, but I think that I, you know, those other experiences I told Lisa on the drive up, I was like, I do have parts of like, I'm really thankful that I had the experience of being 29 30 when I got married.

[01:00:55] Cory: Um, Because like I knew the day that I met the night that I met Abby, [01:01:00] I was like, I've never met anybody like her. Right? Yeah. And then it was like, now this is the person I'm gonna do my life with. So you, you can't force, uh, if we try to, we talk about like this, um, are people inherently broken or not full whole at their core?

[01:01:15] Cory: Mm-hmm. And it's like you had said, uh, about there is a part of us that like, we need to be good with ourselves, but like, God is gonna be the thing that makes us good. The divine is the thing that makes us good and we try to fill that 

[01:01:27] Lisa: gap. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I like to think about life like, uh, video game. It's like, me too.

[01:01:33] Lisa: You know? You call of duty not the same type though. I was imagining she was like, no. What game? What was in your head game with like different like levels? Tetris 

[01:01:44] Matt: donkey 

[01:01:44] Lisa: cone, kinda. I think that will work better. Mario. 

[01:01:48] Cory: Mario, your role? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Level one. Level two level. Okay, gotcha.

[01:01:52] Lisa: It's like we think that we have, not that a level is better than another, right. But to unlock [01:02:00] level 10, oh, you have to pass by all the other levels. I gotcha. And like depending of like what passes your life, you might reach level 10 before me. But just because the thing that you unlocked before were different.

[01:02:12] Lisa: Right. But now, or even maybe we are not even playing the same video game actually. That's right. So like that's such a good point. 10 is like whatever. And my level 10, well I had a crazy boss at five, right. And I'm stuck there. Stuck there while you are already at level 10, but we are not even playing the same game.

[01:02:29] Lisa: And so I will be like, Oh my God. But he is already there. Like he got married at 21. What the heck? Like I'm 31. Right. But then my game is completely different. Yeah. Right? Yes. And I will reach the level 10 only when I will have unlock 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, right. Until nine. Uh, like yeah, until nine. I think, 

[01:02:46] Matt: I think what's incredible is, is we, we mentioned it earlier, but like almost all of this kind of season talk and, and a lot around relationships, like, 'cause that was what was brought up, but also around other things is it has to do so much with [01:03:00] comparison.

[01:03:00] Matt: Mm-hmm. And I love what you're saying of like, what if you're not even playing the same game? Because then that takes comparison out of the equation as much as possible. Right. Because it's like, you know what, 100%, um, there will be Saturdays or Friday or any day of the week. Yeah. Where I wish that I could sleep in, wake up, go get brunch with the boys.

[01:03:28] Matt: Go play a round of golf. Mm-hmm. Go get some lunch, drink quite right now, go play another round of golf maybe, or maybe like go see a movie with the boys. Yeah. And then go have a nice steak dinner and then like That would be great. That would be amazing. There's day, there's some days where it's like that right there.

[01:03:51] Matt: Who that would hit the spot. Okay. It would. 

[01:03:55] Cory: Right. 

[01:03:56] Matt: But what I can also say 

[01:03:58] Cory: is that, so when you said you would, [01:04:00] anything you would wanna do in life, you'd wanna do with Brooke? I mean, except for that kind of stuff. Right? 

[01:04:04] Matt: Right. But, but there's a, there's a, but I can talk about that by the way. But this Saturday I took my two kids to soccer practice and my wife was at a, a bridal shower.

[01:04:18] Matt: So I took them to soccer practice by myself. I. Both of them. That was interesting. I bribed them with ice cream. So after, after we went and got ice cream, brought them home, we played outside, we ate lunch, they took naps, then they got up from nap. We went on a little road trip, which is literally just driving around.

[01:04:40] Matt: We came back, we played outside, no girls involved. We went to the grocery store, we made dinner together, and then I put them down to bed and like that day I wouldn't give up for anything. Right. Yeah. Because I spent all day with my two kids and my two boys are, are everything to me. Right. But it's this thing of where part of the [01:05:00] beauty of, of what I think our relationship has is that Brooke is okay days that I go and play golf and I'm okay.

[01:05:08] Matt: Days that she goes and Right. Good. Does whatever girls do, I don't, literally, no idea. Okay. But I think that. I think that there's so much power in what you're saying of we're not even playing the same video game. So much power in that. And I think the real question then becomes of like, yeah, how do you, like, this is for all of us, right?

[01:05:34] Matt: Of like, how do you convince yourself that that's actually real? Right? On the days where I really want to go play golf with the boys, but I can't 'cause I gotta take the boys to soccer practice, right? On days that you may be going, Hey, I am 31, it would be great to be married and have some kids, but I also have this freedom, like, you know, freedom.

[01:05:54] Matt: You can, you know, like when you're thinking about where [01:06:00] different people are at, you're comparing them back to yourself. You're comparing yourself to other people. What is it in you that goes, wait a second, we're not even playing the same video game. And wait a second, God has a plan for me and a calling for me, and that's where I need to operate.

[01:06:15] Matt: I don't need to go and operate over here where this 

[01:06:17] Lisa: person is. Well, what helps me in those days where I'm comparing too much is to look back because you know, your video game has a setup. An universe. Mm-hmm. Like something like the characters and all what we have been through, like the way like the, until the family you born and the place you're born.

[01:06:40] Lisa: Like everything is different. Like I am, if I look at how I started and I compare to the people I'm comparing to, we didn't even start it the same way. We don't have the same family, the same siblings. Like 

[01:06:53] Matt: our video games aren't even in the same language. Yeah. 

[01:06:55] Lisa: Literally. Literally we are, you are playing on Xbox and I'm on the pc, [01:07:00] like Right.

[01:07:00] Lisa: Do you know what I mean? And so. Thinking about like how I came to this point. Mm-hmm. Makes me realize that okay, you might not like it, but everything about it is unique. Mm-hmm. And so if you compare your uniqueness to some else uniqueness, you will not never find mm-hmm. A similarity. And so like, try to just focus, like I try to just focus on myself.

[01:07:28] Lisa: Yeah. It's not easy every day, but that's kind of what like, helps me realize that Okay, well my video game is different. Yeah. Like everything about me is different. 

[01:07:36] Matt: Matt, what you got? I think it's an interesting idea where if you take the word, the video game analogy and like purpose, like replace it with like purpose and it's this comparison of purpose.

[01:07:47] Matt: And I think a common thing that people do is they place their purpose in something in the future. And the future doesn't exist like you have. No, there is no guarantee of it. And so really your only, your purpose is only in where [01:08:00] you are right now. That's 

[01:08:01] Cory: And so kind of present. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:08:04] Matt: How does that, I mean, I guess like kind of taking that idea, I don't know, like I keep hearing, we, we keep talking about this and I, I struggle with this too is like you compare my purpose to another person's purpose, but I'm compare comparing where I think I should be five years from now, 10 years from now tomorrow.

[01:08:23] Matt: Yeah. But all I have is really is today and is right now. And so it's like what can I do right now that's going to dictate. My purpose now, rather than the game that I'm playing from like a higher level, I guess My therapist and I have had several talks about this to be real about how pretty much, uh, any form of anxiety or stress or these different things come from trying to make up hypothetical situations that could or could not happen in the future.

[01:08:56] Matt: Right. And realistically, all we can do [01:09:00] is control today right now. And any anxiety is happening in the future. Yeah. Right. And to come back and focus on today and to come back and focus on right now and to even if, uh, we have literally legitimately talked to my therapist about how, uh, when you get to the end of the day, I have gone to a therapist for a while now about having problems sleeping.

[01:09:28] Matt: And part of my issue is that when I lay down in bed, I feel like my mind goes, a, it flips the switch and it starts going a million miles an hour. And I can't turn it off. I just go. And then I, then I, I roll over, roll over, roll over. I look at the clock and now it's three 30 in the morning, and I'm like, I supposed to get up at six.

[01:09:48] Matt: What am I supposed to do right now? But part of that is that when I get to the end of my day, I need to look back. And basically, it's funny because my therapist isn't [01:10:00] really talking in terms of, um, faith, right? But my therapist is literally like, look back on the day and name off all the things that you're grateful that you got done.

[01:10:11] Matt: And look back at the day in a very, like, have a very thankful attitude back towards it. And a very gratitude g have gratitude back towards the day of like, I got X, Y, and z Done. Even though I may not have gotten a b and c done right now at one o'clock in the morning, I can't do 'em anyway. Nobody's awake.

[01:10:30] Matt: Like, I can't make a phone call. I can't get somebody like, so I can't do anything. And the best thing for me would be to go to sleep right now to turn everything off. And I think it's interesting when we start talking about purpose, we start talking about seasons in that way of like, what if, 'cause I, I, I, I don't think that my personal attitude towards the season that I'm in is always gratitude.

[01:10:59] Matt: Oh, for [01:11:00] sure it's not right. But what can I do to, to work on that? What can I do to look at it more in that way? 

[01:11:07] Cory: Yeah. Like, why is waiting so hard, 

[01:11:10] Matt: Lisa? Why is waiting so hard? 

[01:11:14] Lisa: Well, I think that we are in a society nowadays, right? Where we have everything quick on the note all the time right there. And so it kind of removes the waiting process.

[01:11:30] Lisa: So now like look at when you order something on Amazon like you wanted tomorrow, while back in the days, I don't Well you are old enough to like write. No, wait, Corey, you are old enough. No, both of you. Like even me, but like you, you lived at the time where you had to, you said were the same age. I know you lived at the time when the, what I meant is you will understand what I mean.

[01:11:51] Lisa: Yes. Where you, when you wanted to send, I don't know if she did that, but like we, I was sending letters to my friends Uhhuh that were [01:12:00] not living in the same city that me. Mm-hmm. And to wait an answer back from that one friends. I was like, what? Eight or nine? I was like In the eighties? No, in the nineties.

[01:12:08] Lisa: Sorry. I'm born in nine one. Um, And you had to wait literally maybe three weeks before they send it. Mm-hmm. You back a letter. Mm-hmm. And now we are upset when we didn't get an automatic answer in the next five minutes when we order something. And so those things are practical things, so we don't think it's that bad.

[01:12:27] Lisa: But now in the more untangible size of life Mm. It makes it really harder because it's stuff that we do not see. Yeah. Stuff that we cannot anticipate. So we become more anxious and more impatient because we have literally nothing to rely on. We don't have a tracking number to figure out like where our next blessing is coming or where are we going.

[01:12:47] Lisa: Yeah. 

[01:12:47] Matt: That'll preach though. Mm-hmm. We don't have a tracking number for where we're going. No, we don't. Like I wish we had No, just that like is so, so good. 

[01:12:58] Cory: Yeah. [01:13:00] Yeah. I mean it's, I think that's interesting 'cause it's, that's a principle that is all throughout scripture. Of sowing and reaping. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:13:07] Cory: So that's so sure. And the relationship between the seed and the ground season. The seed season. So parts. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I think it becomes, I think it's part of like societally, I think that that, that, that God or chose to use those as a metaphor because there is something that no matter what, can't be sped up through that process.

[01:13:27] Cory: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because we always talk about like, hey, be your seeds and put them on good ground. Mm-hmm. And then you'll get a harvest. But we don't actually talk about is the weight, how long? Yeah. And, and, and then we wanna jump right from 'em. I did my, whether it's trying to be healthier, get mag shape, it's like, well, I'm gonna plant the seed.

[01:13:45] Cory: I'm gonna get up this morning, I'm gonna work out. And then we wanna result very quickly tomorrow. I didn't anything in three days. Like, so we, that, that's disheartening and we go, but like, so yes, I think that your answer of like society, um, and technology and [01:14:00] how everything that we interact with every day, um, I don't think it necessarily contradicts the principles of how God works, but like it makes us feel like I want something, I get something Yeah.

[01:14:12] Cory: Very quickly and healthy things in life and, and in, I think in God, like I think he can move quickly, but like ultimately is like, it's not always that way. 

[01:14:22] Lisa: Yeah. I felt like what was meant to help you originally is now not serving us at all, you know? 

[01:14:30] Cory: Yeah. I mean it is whenever you get the Chipotle real quick, you know?

[01:14:35] Cory: Um, specifically, but it's not serving, I think in like our soul and like understanding the nature of how God works and how healthy things grow over time. The on demand is not helpful. 

[01:14:46] Lisa: Well, the thing is the on demand is a human creation. Mm-hmm. Why? Like the waiting process and like the nature is God created.

[01:14:56] Lisa: Right. So we created stuff that are like our image. [01:15:00] Then when we face what God created, right, then we struggle. 

[01:15:03] Cory: Yeah. And we also sort like, we look at it as in like, well, my act of faith was the beginning thing that was pointing the seed. And then the, the realization of the promise is the harvest time. And then every, so what are we doing in that waiting time?

[01:15:19] Cory: Just sitting there with our, you know, thumbs up, our butt waiting to be like this, could this come quicker? It's like watching the seed, but what if we're like realistically, like it's about like, what are we learning through the waiting? Right. It's like that's probably more of the lesson than getting the piece of can.

[01:15:34] Matt: It's like take that's analogy of seed time and harvest time. Right. Of sowing and reaping. And what do farmers have to do from the time that they plant until the time they have to harvest? Yeah. You have to water, you have to go through and plow. You have to pull the weeds, you have to tend. Take care of 

[01:15:49] Lisa: that field.

[01:15:49] Lisa: And you also have to prepare the place where you will put everything correct when you'll 

[01:15:53] Matt: go to get it. It takes a lot of work, literal to get from sewing to reaping like a lot of work. Yeah. And I [01:16:00] think that what, what you're saying is so real of the world wants to show us that there's zero time or as little time as possible between sowing and reaping.

[01:16:09] Matt: But that's not, that's not actually a natural law. That's a manmade law. Whereas a natural law is sowing. And reaping happens in seasons and in Ecclesiastes it talks about there's a season for everything. Yes. It gives a whole long list of all the different things, right? Mm-hmm. But in one of those verses, after that, it says that, but God has made every it, God has made.

[01:16:37] Matt: Can you look this up, Matthew? Yeah. I, I don't know why I called you Matthew. I've never called you Matthew. I like it though. I think it's, there's a level of respect 

[01:16:45] Lisa: there. I it's 

[01:16:45] Matt: speak three something that's after that there's something like God has made everything beautiful in its time or something like that.

[01:16:51] Matt: Yeah. Right after the list of all of it basically. Yes. He three, it's after the list. Yes. 

[01:16:58] Lisa: Yeah. T three, [01:17:00] maybe eight. 

[01:17:01] Matt: Yeah. God has made everything beautiful for its own time. He has planted eternity in the human heart, but even so, people cannot see the whole scope of God's work from beginning to end. So I concluded there's nothing better than to be happy and enjoy ourselves as long as we can.

[01:17:14] Matt: And people should eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of their labor for these are gifts from God that of like Solomon commonly believed to have written Ecclesiastes. There's some scholars who disagree is writing that like there is going to be time. But it's beautiful. Mm-hmm. And the best thing you can do is enjoy it.

[01:17:40] Matt: Yeah. Right. And this is coming from a man who had everything really, who had every option, every indulgence, everything that you could possibly have. And then he had all of that and then said, but this, all of this isn't enough without wisdom. Yeah. Right. And I think that that is [01:18:00] so powerful. And so my question now back to Lisa, is how, how difficult is that?

[01:18:11] Matt: Do you feel like you're, you're enjoying everything and everything seems beautiful in the season that you're in? 

[01:18:17] Lisa: Um, I would like to say yes, of course, as the good Christian that I am, right? Um, I will be content in everything. No. Okay. Um, preach it. That is the theory. Um, but then we are still human beings and there are stuff like I personally do really, really bad when I don't understand some things.

[01:18:39] Lisa: Um, something and I get really frustrated in every area in my life. Like if I, I don't care about being wrong, like if I'm wrong, you tell me. I will admit it. I will be like, oh yeah, I'm I bad. Like, you're right. But if I don't understand something, you just have to show me the iron. Yeah. You have to explain to me.

[01:18:58] Lisa: I, it drives me [01:19:00] nuts. And so for me that is really hard because I can see like how my life is different, but since I don't know why some days when I have too much time to think, I loop in my head that I actually do not have a purpose because I don't understand why all the things do not click together.

[01:19:22] Lisa: Mm-hmm. And I have to remind myself that God is the one that makes the plans. And so he orchestrate everything from the beginning so everything will make sense. Mm-hmm. Just not when I decided that he has to make sense. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's definitely not easy every day. Yeah. 

[01:19:39] Cory: There's a context is a little taken out here, but there's 11, no.

[01:19:44] Cory: Dang it. First Corinthians I tried, uh, what's that? Paul was talking about like, uh, church leadership is specifically, but I did like write this down and it kind of works here. I think he said, uh, I planted the seed. Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. So neither [01:20:00] the one who plants, nor the one who waters is anything but the uh, is anything but only God.

[01:20:06] Cory: God makes things grow. The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose and they'll each be rewarded according to their own labor. For we are coworkers in God's service. You are the God's field, God's building, blah blah. But ultimately I think that's, it's about like my question following that would be like what is our responsibility in a season?

[01:20:31] Cory: Like what are we responsible for? Well, 'cause like you just said, like God is the one making the thing grow. We plant, we water. But God is doing that. So like what is our responsibility in those? 

[01:20:42] Lisa: Well we have assignments. So God tells you plant, you plant, you don't know who will water, you don't know when it will grow.

[01:20:50] Lisa: You will know who will do the harvest, but God told you to plant. So plant. And our responsibility is to do the assignment that God [01:21:00] told us to do. Like the last thing that, like for example for me, like I know that right now, I'm at the right place at the right time. I will not try to go to Australia right now, even if I won't, because I know that for now in this season, I have to be here.

[01:21:14] Lisa: How long? I don't know why. I don't know. Mm-hmm. I just know that if I go to Australia right now, I'm ruining my own. Well, of course God can 

[01:21:24] Matt: like for sure, for sure. What if, what if I don't know if I'm in the right time or the right place and I don't know what my assignment 

[01:21:31] Lisa: is. I feel like I go. So there is two ways to look at it, especially like in a like Christian purpose.

[01:21:37] Lisa: So like in God, like with God behind, there is two ways I do it. It's like either I just rely on the last assignment I was sure I got from God, which in this case is like go to the US and I'm in the US and I stay there until. I feel like I have to do something either, but then it's not that big of a change and like I will try something else and then [01:22:00] if it doesn't work, I will just block it.

[01:22:01] Lisa: Hmm. But the risk with that second one is just to go too far to have to come back. But it's also a risk to take and like obviously you pray about it, you'd be like, okay, God, I don't know what you want. I'll try this. If it's not, you block it, if it's you. 

[01:22:17] Matt: I think that that's, that is really critical of like, if, if anyone who ever listens to this feels like you don't know where you're supposed to be or dunno what your calling is, dunno what your assignment is like she just answered it.

[01:22:28] Matt: Like, get into prayer, get into the word. Because I feel like if you don't have an assignment, you don't know what your calling is, maybe in that moment or in that season, then your calling is to be more intimate with the Lord. Yeah. And go and seek that. Right. Seek first. Okay. Um, Matt, did you have something or no?

[01:22:49] Matt: No. No. All right. That was 

[01:22:50] Cory: just random. Yeah. I mean, and there's a lot of scriptures though that would affirm that and say that, like, that God directs our path. He's a lampor for lampor path. Mm-hmm. Um, [01:23:00] I think where we get into hard parts is when we're in seasons that we, we wanna try to, will our way out of it and force it is like, I think if we have to, we have to be honest about like, what's my real driver here?

[01:23:11] Cory: Right? Yeah. Like what's the, what's the motivating thing? Yeah. Is it, uh, something that I'm feel like I'm lacking personally, so I feel like I'm, so I'm gonna kind of will my way out of that. And I think that, first off, whether you're talking in the Christian perspective or not, this idea of, like, think about it, like all, a lot of eastern practices, like Eastern religion, like everybody is really doing a lot of work and fighting for this act of being able to be present, to be here.

[01:23:37] Cory: Mm-hmm. To be now it is an innately human thing. To not be satisfied with what we have now. That's very true. And to think about the next one, I can't, like, I don't know how I have to do a lot of work to even enjoy vacations. The mo, so you talked about the, the, the thing like the, if I had the, a magical [01:24:00] day of waking up, having some brunch mimosas golf, more hangout golf again, steak dinner like that, if we had that on the books, which we do have a weekend planned 10 late 

[01:24:13] Matt: and to do something, technically we did that for Father's Day.

[01:24:15] Cory: Right? Right. But I will tell you there's what is twisted about me and maybe other people is it is actually not the day that I enjoy the most. Like, it's not the round of golf, it's not the, what I enjoy the most is the anticipation of I'm gonna have a really fun day. Hmm. So I have all this hype. It's the Christmas, mor Christmas Eve thing I'm so excited for.

[01:24:38] Cory: And the best part of that Father's Day I. My favorite part of the whole day would be like right when we meet up, right? When we get, get in the car. Right. When we get to the, like the first, you are the first mimosa or your breakfast before you've done, and you got a whole day in front of you. But as soon as we tee up mm-hmm.

[01:24:56] Cory: There's a clock that ticks in my head and being like, well, this is over. Yeah. And [01:25:00] my perspective is always like, it's all like all my joys and the anticipation for the good thing. Mm-hmm. That I, it stops me from really enjoying the full moment presently. I feel like that's a new problem, man. That's a me problem.

[01:25:13] Cory: Yeah. You don't feel that way when you go on vacation. And also, I don't 

[01:25:16] Matt: feel that, wait until like the last day. Oh, 

[01:25:17] Cory: I feel that after the first night, like maybe I make it 24 hours and then I start thinking about you're just the firsthand kind of guy. 

[01:25:23] Lisa: I'm, I think about it, but not the same way. I'll be like, Lisa, I enjoy because then it will be done, Lisa, I enjoy because then it will be done and then it, 

[01:25:33] Cory: yeah.

[01:25:33] Cory: Okay. Matt, do you feel, do you align with me or more of Taylor? Matt wasn't listening to anything 

[01:25:39] Matt: we were talking about. I was finding 

[01:25:40] Cory: another Okay thing. Are you a first night kind of person, like when you are on vacation? Yes. Are you more excited about the, the anticipation, the drive, the get get there?

[01:25:48] Cory: That first initial wave? Yeah. And then I just start thinking about how it's gonna end. Yep. A hundred 

[01:25:52] Matt: percent. And I, I was just on vacation a couple weeks ago and Kate got mad at me because the day [01:26:00] before we left I was like, man, this has been great. She's like, shut up. Like this isn't over yet. It's like, well let's appreciate it now.

[01:26:07] Matt: 'cause it's gonna be 

[01:26:08] Cory: over that We're here now. Back to this being here now. Mean letting, letting this moment. 

[01:26:13] Matt: So be enough. All right. I'm about to flip this on the head. Go ahead. I'm gonna go because I missed your question. 'cause I was finding this quote that I read yesterday, um, for the present is the only thing of which a man can be deprived.

[01:26:25] Matt: And it is true if it is true that this is the only thing which he has and that a man cannot lose, something he does not already possess. Hmm. Sheesh. All right. Now I'm gonna flip it on his head. You ready for this? Let's not talk about that one 

[01:26:39] Cory: at all. 

[01:26:40] Matt: Can we can go, I just have to 

[01:26:42] Cory: flip. I know You wanna flip it Here it's 

[01:26:44] Matt: go, buddy.

[01:26:45] Matt: Is that what you're talking about right now? You 

[01:26:47] Cory: couldn't be present right there. No, I couldn't. You had to go right To your point, maybe 

[01:26:52] Matt: after I get done with this point, we repeat it, then we can talk about it. Sure. Okay. But here's, here's what the thing is. Is that the way you're talking about [01:27:00] the anticipation leading up to it and then it happens and then you want it to end, or like it's already over.

[01:27:05] Matt: Yeah. I just get sad. Right? Here's the thing is I would venture to say that's how a lot of people, including myself, look at seasons in life of wherever you're at right now, you really want to be in the next place and you actually pray, right? Mm-hmm. And you pray for the next season that does good and you want the next season so badly.

[01:27:29] Matt: And then the season changes. But a lot of times my brain, I'll just talk for me now. Yeah. My brain goes already to, I want the next season when really I'm living. What is the absolute result and Yeah. Like culmination of the prayers that I was praying a year ago. Yeah. But I'm now in that season, but I'm already looking for the next one.

[01:27:54] Matt: And so I think that that, that anticipation idea is how I, and I would say a [01:28:00] lot of people live their actual lives. Yeah. We're always in anticipation of what's 

[01:28:03] Cory: in the next one. I don't want to, I feel like I don't wanna, I want hear what you have to say on this, Lisa, but like when you said that, all I could think about was the season that my wife and I were, were going through for a while of like wanting to have a child.

[01:28:18] Cory: Mm-hmm. And there's so many, anybody that's been in this process, you know, the, the kind of like monthly. Highs and lows, like it's just devastating. And we were actively praying for it, nightly that believing that this thing's gonna happen. And I remember trying to have like, kind of like just conversations and awareness of being like, yes, it's okay to have expectancy for something good to come and to believe for something good that in your life, um, the next season.

[01:28:49] Cory: However, if I lose the perspective or the awareness of the fact is like, it, it could be disappointing every month when, when a's cycle would start and you're like, ah, we're not pregnant [01:29:00] again. But if I switch my perspective through a lens of faith and be like, that time will come Corey, and praise God, it has come.

[01:29:07] Cory: But I will never in the same way get to go back to those nights where it was just my wife and I mm-hmm. Sitting quietly and, and watching something. And so, well, you will not in the same, but not in the same way. Not in the same way. Like you're, like, you'll never go back to that, like your first couple years of marriage or however long your season is, um, where you don't have kids.

[01:29:27] Cory: Mm-hmm. Like that, that's a season that, that will change. Right. And you'll never get that back. So as much as we were wanting to have a child and move our family forward, and those are all beautiful things. I, we, there's an effort of being like, don't throw this time away. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm, I'm praying for tomorrow and I'm wasting today.

[01:29:49] Cory: Of enjoying the moment of just being able to like, sit on the couch together and be like, what do you wanna watch tonight? Nothing really good on it. Doesn't matter. Let's just put something on. 'cause who cares? Right. Um, 'cause [01:30:00] and that, that can just be a blur and that's a really special and magical time.

[01:30:05] Cory: And, and each season that we're in has something like that. Mm-hmm. And you might not be in the same kind of thing, but like, it has something that seems mundane in a moment, but is precious to that season because it will not be, it will not exist in your next season. Right. Or as much. Um, so just that, yeah, we're wishing for tomorrow and like, throwing away the, what we can learn and how we can grow today.

[01:30:29] Cory: Dar Go ahead. Lisa, what do you got? 

[01:30:31] Lisa: No, I actually agree with you. Um, it like made me think about two things, um, that my friends girl are going through literally all the time in that life process where, They are single and people are like, oh, when are you going to get a boyfriend? Then you have a boyfriend and it's like, when are you getting engaged?

[01:30:53] Lisa: And then you engaged and like, when are you getting married? And then when are you getting kids? And then when the second one, and it feels [01:31:00] like it doesn't help, like social pressure in general, that is just an example. Mm-hmm. But it doesn't help us to actually enjoy our time right now, what we have right now because it feels like we are missing out all the time on something else.

[01:31:17] Lisa: Mm-hmm. Um, while actually there are always great things, um, that is, that are happening even in this season. Yeah. When we don't understand it. And the second thing that it make me think about is going back to the video game analogy. Um, there is still stuff to do in your game, even if you are not fighting a bus.

[01:31:38] Lisa: Like you are walking around like you are earning coins. You gotta gather those gold. Yeah. You're making your armor like stronger. Whatever. Yeah. So there are still stuff to do, even though you are not like stepping in a new level and, um, to make it more biblical. Um, we can see the seasons of life of like older, the people that we admire in the Bible, Joseph, um, [01:32:00] David, or like Esther or whatever, like before the big chapters.

[01:32:06] Lisa: Like we know that David was king, but he was also a warrior. And during that warrior he won better battles, but it also did other stuff. And like we just focused on Oh, he was a king or he was anointing, but like, he was alive. Oh, he just, 

[01:32:19] Cory: he defeated Goliath. Yeah, exactly. 

[01:32:21] Lisa: Exactly. There was a whole lot that happened before that.

[01:32:22] Lisa: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. And so we just focus on like the step and like we were like, what is the next, what is the next? But there is like so much in between like. That we do not read and like we do not learn from. Mm-hmm. So, 

[01:32:34] Matt: mm-hmm. I think that's what's really interesting is in, particularly in business or anything like that, like we, you hear about people like John d Rockefeller, right.

[01:32:46] Matt: That at his time, richest man alive, and that man was insane. His, his biography called Titan is actually an incredible book. Mm-hmm. But we look, we, you, you always look at people as the end result. You never look at the [01:33:00] process mm-hmm. To have gotten there. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. All the things that they had to do, they had to go through.

[01:33:05] Matt: Whether that be in life, whether it be in the Bible of like, it's just, it's so crazy to think, I mean, the example of David, like Hays Life was like, There was some wild things 

[01:33:22] Cory: that happened. Yeah, definitely. I think too, it's like you, you in the stories you miss a lot. They often don't talk about the quiet times and the still times.

[01:33:30] Cory: Um, for people like times in study and prayer or thought and like, like for all these, um, it's just the moments of action that, that really get caught. Mm-hmm. Um, and so life when there's not action happening can feel stagnant or frustrating. Right. Um, also 

[01:33:48] Lisa: we always forget that each season prepares you to the next one.

[01:33:52] Lisa: Yeah. And so spending time waiting for something without getting prepared, like everything you are doing right now is what will help you in the next [01:34:00] season, no matter if you know what the next season is or not. Mm-hmm. And so, We are like skipping all those things, praying for the next season to come, and then if the next season come and then we are not prepared, then we'll be regretting the previous season while if you actually enjoy what you are going through, or like, at least like, make sure that you learn everything you can out of it.

[01:34:21] Lisa: Then it'll make everything else, whatever the else is 

[01:34:25] Cory: better. Mm-hmm. It makes me think of the, the Maverick City Elevation song, like that was on for like, I'm gonna wait on you. Yeah. And it's like, it's, it's not, but even like the part where, where Dante does the little thing,

[01:34:41] Cory: um, but he's talking about, it's like, it's like, what's he talking about? It's like it's. I don't remember everything he said, but it's like, it's not about what you do when you wait. Like it's about what? It's not about the waiting. It's what you're doing when the in the waiting. So instead of complaining, why don't we don't start, why don't we just start praising in the middle of the storm when you wait?

[01:34:59] Cory: Yeah. [01:35:00] He's like, your goodness, trusting your problem. Wait, he, when he speaks it, he's just like, oh. He is like, like, why do we complain Right. When we should praise. Um, and that's also another part about like, praise is like we praise in our happy times, but it's like praising through struggles. Mm-hmm. And through seasons that that's good when you don't feel it.

[01:35:17] Cory: Um, there's a difference between, and Mike Todd had a, I think a sermon series kind of around this, but there's a difference between like sitting still and lying in weight. Yeah. Yes. 

[01:35:30] Matt: Matt, what was that quote that you read just a minute ago? That I completely and utterly ignored? Sure. Wow. For the present is the only thing of which a man can be deprived.

[01:35:39] Matt: If it is true that this is the only thing which he has and that a man cannot lose, something he does not already possess. All I'm, I'm thinking about is with everything that we've been talking about it, it's not as elegantly put as that, but I think that the crutch [01:36:00] of seasons, the thing that can compare us down is comparison.

[01:36:07] Matt: Mm-hmm. In comparison is what is stealing the presence away from people. Yeah. And the way to fix that is gratitude. Yeah. Right. To praise and to, to, to have gratitude through regardless of what you're going through. And that's, I feel like it's a lot easier said than done for some, like, depending on the circumstance.

[01:36:31] Matt: Um, but there's also this idea of like, I think a lot of things that I, I think about, uh, whether it be from therapy or from. Praying myself and, and all these kinds of things is like, I, I feel like, I think now in the sense of like almost this, um, like scale of like peace, like how much peace do I have right now and how much do I want, or how much do I not have?

[01:36:58] Matt: Like in this sense of [01:37:00] like, what's gonna bring me the most peace right now? And 9.9 times out of 10, it's like, you just need to stop and pray for a minute and like, thank God for what's going on right now. And like, pick out all these things. And a lot of those ideas came from therapy of being gracious for the things that you have right now.

[01:37:23] Matt: But I think that it can be so powerful of, we're all in different video games. We're all like, it's all a simulation, it's all a simul. We're all in the matrix. Like it is what it is. We're all in different languages. Uh, Lisa's main menu may be in French, but like when she presses the pause button, it's in Dutch.

[01:37:47] Matt: The characters are speaking in Spanish. Like, who knows? 

[01:37:49] Lisa: Like, just for the anecdote. I'm learning Portuguese right now. Keep going. 

[01:37:53] Matt: Okay. Lisa learning Portuguese. Gotta throw the fifth thing, John. Uh, no, it's fine. [01:38:00] Um, 

[01:38:00] Cory: just basically I was like, do you have a heavenly language too? What you wanna throw? 

[01:38:03] Matt: Yeah. Can we, are you speaking in tongues?

[01:38:06] Matt: Is that number six? Like what are we talking here? Uh, yeah. Right. But I think that, that going over that of like comparison and shame verse thankfulness and gratitude is, yeah. Wild. Hmm. How are you feeling, Lisa? So did this, did this conversation go the way you thought it was gonna go? 

[01:38:28] Lisa: I had no expectation actually.

[01:38:30] Cory: So, so you were just present, right? Yes. 

[01:38:33] Lisa: Yeah. I feel like, um, it's a great conversation to have. It helps everyone. Like we could all relate to what we are talking about, even though we are absolutely in different season of life, all of us. Um, but we still have common ground and like we understand and take, like learn the same thing out of it.

[01:38:55] Lisa: So I think it's a very great conversation. 

[01:38:57] Cory: Wow. For sure. We are, [01:39:00] uh, very thankful that you took the time to come and do this and to share your experience, your perspective. Um, it's been very cool. It's been very cool. Yeah. So take heart, run your race. Was uh, I always feel like I'm just now going through like a bunch of random words from scriptures.

[01:39:21] Cory: Not one full complete scripture. I was just gonna a bunch of random stuff. I was trying to figure where you were going. Yeah. Earlier I was thinking about Paul and talking about like when you said the video games thing about like how he runs his race and he finished his race. Race and Yeah. Uh, well, he actually says I run the race, meaning like, True, which made me think I was gonna use that.

[01:39:38] Cory: And I was like, well, he's kind of talking about like one, like the same game maybe I didn't think was helpful. Maybe it'd be more accurate to say Run your race. Fight your fight. 

[01:39:45] Matt: Yes. But um, the Lord has plans to give you a 

[01:39:48] Cory: future. And I hope Jeremiah 29 11, there it is. I love it. It's good. Cool. Well thank you Lisa.

[01:39:55] Cory: This was good. Thank you guys. Thank you. 

[01:39:58] Matt: Love you again. [01:40:00] Love you man. 

[01:40:01] Cory: Love you everybody. All.