E016 No One Cares as Much as You Do

Passionately Wrong Podcast Episode E016

No One Cares As Much As You Do

Key takeaway: One issue stakeholders create special issues for their counterparts. The key to learning how to deal with them effectively is recognizing that we are one issue stakeholders ourselves on the topics we care deeply about. 

Topics covered in this video: 

• What is a one-issue stakeholder? James’s experience in the ESG context
• Everyone is a one-issue stakeholder in some topics
• At the same time, we aren’t always passionate enough about topics we should be
• People need to be involved in steering their own careers (no one cares as much about your success as you should)
• You have to tell people what you want
• What do you do if you’re not yet sure if you know what you want?
• Look into and take advantage of what your company has on offer
• Being open to alternative paths to your goals, including lateral moves
• The risks of getting caught up in earning money (vs. what makes you happy)
• Being happy 100% of the time is unrealistic, as is being unhappy with your job
• Tools: listen to people’s issues and assess your ability to influence that issue
• The importance of also coming up with feasible solutions
• If you want attention: simplify your message and repeat it
• The power of getting colleagues to take even a small step

Transcript

James: 0:00

So in other words, you don't always need a change to achieve happiness. Sometimes all you need is a change in attitude to find ways to be happy with what you're doing. Greetings, friends. I'm James.

Randy: 0:13

And I'm Randy. You're listening to The Passionately Wrong podcast where we challenge your assumptions, offer some different perspectives, and hopefully help you make better decisions.

James: 0:25

hi everybody. Topic four today is, no one cares as much as you do. And we mean that a little bit, tongue in cheek, but also quite seriously because for a lot of things that you'll do in your life, you'll be the one who cares about them more than anyone else. And there's good reasons for that. And understanding the reasons for that will help you be more effective in making sure that you, uh, make progress on the things that are important to you. I came about this from my professional. Career when I was running our E S G program, our sustainability program, and I was confronted with a lot of people who were very deeply committed to their issue. So whether it was clean water or clean air or carbon emissions, or the whole host of things that people get very excited about with E S G topics. I realized that they are, I call'em soul issue stakeholders. They really, really, really think that that issue is the most important thing in the world, and they devote all of their energy and attention to promoting that issue. And it was learning how to deal with those people. That led me to think more about this topic. Randy. So one thing I can tell you, uh, does not work when you're dealing with a one issue stakeholder. Is to try to reason with them and say, oh yeah, your issue's not as important as you think it is. Uh, or nobody cares about that issue as much as you do. So just telling people that they're behaving irrationally doesn't do any good whatsoever. Whether they realize that they're a one-issue stakeholder or being emotional about it or irrational about it is not the point. The point is they do actually care about it, really importantly. So how do you deal effectively with them? In my case, it wasn't that we could just ignore them and they would go away, right? Because if you ignore a one-issue stakeholder in the public company context like that, they'll just get angry and go start a shareholder campaign and write letters to the board and cause trouble for you. In other words, so if a person. This is the probably the first important realization. If someone cares strongly enough about an issue, they will not go away. They will not stop. Right? And. The flip side of this that I eventually, uh, you know, I'll talk about how to deal with one issue stakeholders, but the, the reason I think this might be interesting to our listeners is I realized actually all of us are in effect one issue stakeholders about the stuff that's important to us, or we should be. So when you are trying to get, uh, things. It's quite possible that people who are interacting with you had the same reaction that I had to everyone that I had to deal with as the head of our sustainability program, which is, uh, I don't really care about your issue, but, uh, I, I'll listen to you to the extent that I have to, to, you know, move ahead in some productive way. So let me stop there and see if that framing makes sense. And if not, how do we set this up so that it makes sense for people listening to us, what we're gonna talk about today? Um, does this idea of a one issue stakeholder make sense and people not caring as much about issues as the person who is pushing the issue?

Randy: 3:32

I mean, uh, James, I think this revolves around the point of our podcast, right? People are passionate about things and whether they're passionate about one particular thing or, you know, three or four or variety of things, uh, they don't go away because they're passionate about the things. And I think we can dial down even to. I mean, I will dial down even to my relationship with my girlfriend. She's passionate about the way things need to be clean. and I am not, I think that it's clean. If it's at this level and she wants to go to the next level, one of the problems is I don't see the next level. I don't see it as a problem if it doesn't rise above what I'm passionate about And so we, this, we got an argument a long time, but I also. I mean, we we're gonna talk about solutions later, so I'm not gonna tell how I solve that until later. But, but that it goes down to being passionate about things within your household, within your family, within your business, within your, your, your outside life, of your business, your, your free time. Um, and I, I think there's a, another side of this coin as well,

James: 4:44

that some

Randy: 4:46

people aren't passionate enough about the things. Or should be important to them. And as you know, indu, industry leaders, and I'm, I'm gonna talk about the military specifically. People, you know, people have different interests about their career, about their free time, about their life, about how they wanna live their life, and the industry or the, the, the company has a career, uh, Pro, pro project Pro, um, what am I trying to say? Trajectory. Trajectory, right? So you have to do serving different jobs. You have to have specific training, and usually it has to come within a certain timeframe so you can go to the next manager level or something like that. I imagine that's what happens in the civilian world. It does happen in the military world and in the military world, if you don't get promoted before a certain. Uh, time in the military, like, like 15 years or some certain, certain, uh, deadlines. Then you don't, you get, get removed from the military and in some cases you get removed from the military before you're of retirement age. Uh, if you don't make a certain, uh, promotions at certain times. And so Iowa was always saying, Hey, you don't seem to be involved in your career. And when I would counsel my people, and we've talked about this in past episodes, like we would have mandatory counseling every month or every, uh, every quarter or something like that. And, and I would say, you're, you're not, you don't, you don't seem to be interested in your career. It's like, well, I mean, I'm just doing my job. What's wrong with my, I'm doing my job, right? You are doing your job, but no one cares as much about you, what you want to do in the future as you do, and the military's gonna put you into this trajectory. And if you don't want to do that, you need to decide what you do want to do. Do you want to retire outta the military? Because if you do, you have to reach the certain rank. And if you don't do these certain things, you won't reach that rank. You don't have to reach the highest rank, but you have to reach a minimum rank to retire outta the military. And. If you don't wanna be in this manager level, because there is a management and then there's a staff kind of, uh, worker B uh, two different tra trajectories. With E you can get the same rank and the same pay. They're just two different directions. And if you don't want to go this way and you're, and people think you should, They can arrange it so that you will if you don't do anything about it. And so, and then there's so many people that just wanna get out at 20 cuz they have different ideas of what their life is, wants, what they want to do when they get outta the military. And that's fine too. But if you don't make up your mind soon enough, you may be, find yourself not very happy in the work you're doing. Cuz you didn't, you weren't passionate enough about how your career is turning.

James: 7:33

Okay, so there's some good things to take out of what you just described. Thanks for bringing in the passionate part of why we're talking about this. And you're right. Um, the, I'll add the passionately wrong part from the sense that. When we are focused on something as individuals, it, it's obviously important to us and it's easy for us to get attention and motivation to think about it and talk about it and work on it. The mistake that we can sometimes make is that anyone else has the same level of interest as we do. So if you think someone else cares as much as you do about your issues, you're not only passionate, you're passionately wrong, and it's not that people. Interests that are opposed to ours. It's not that they're trying to get us to do something that we don't want to do. It's actually when you talked about no one cares as much as you do. Um, it's actually partly they don't know and they don't know If you don't raise it, and first of all, think about it yourself. So specifically, if it comes to the decisions you're making about your career that you deci, uh, discussed a second ago, do I wanna go down this path, the management path, or do I wanna go down this staff path? Um, Your company, your organization is always gonna be trying to do the most amount of work that it can productively with the least amount of effort. And that means, you know, if you don't raise your hand and say you wanna do something differently, well they're just gonna shunt you over here where they need you. And it may be a good fit for your skills and your interests. It may not. But if you don't raise your hand and say, well, hey, actually I am interested in this. Let's talk about how to get there. you know, that creates work and stress and hassle for your organization. Your boss now has to say, oh, is there a way for me to accommodate Randy's needs and interests? But I learned over the years, it's much better when an employee actually does think about what they want and then raise it with me. Because what happens if they don't? What happens if you never raise your hand and say to your boss, Hey boss, I actually would like to go over here and spend time working overseas. I don't wanna get into a command job where I don't ever travel again. You know, at first, uh, they have to deal with it. Yes. But if you have a desire that you don't raise and try to get addressed, you're just gonna be unhappy, which raises the likelihood that you're ultimately gonna quit or leave or, you know, not be as a productive and employee. So, What I wanna say is, it's better for you and for your organization to think a little bit about what it is you care about and then raise those topics in an appropriate setting so that you know it's only fair, right? You, you do spend a lot of time working hard for your organization. I think a good organization, whether it's private or military or whatever, owes it to its, uh, employees to think about how to give them a rewarding career, but it's not gonna happen by. because the default is, hey, what is the need of the organization? How did I, how do I get my organizational needs met with the least amount of friction? So, yeah, I understand your point. I, I like that you can apply it to probably one of the most important things that you'll have to deal with in your life, which is the direction of your career, where you spend time studying, working, you know, what do you spend time working on? What do you do though if you don't know what you want? Right. I know I meet a lot of people starting out in their career, and they're just not sure either because they don't have enough experience or exposure. How do we instill in people the attitude? Taking responsibility for their career, showing some curiosity, understanding what's out there. You know, you and I are at a point in our careers where we have seen a lot of stuff and we can give advice, but y a lot of young people don't wanna hear advice, right? So how do you get a little bit to a better understanding of what it is you actually want?

Randy: 11:17

So are you speaking on as if you are the person trying to figure it out, or you're, as a supervisor trying to mentor

James: 11:25

somebody? I would start from the perspective of anybody trying to get a better sense of what they want. But h however, it, it, it makes sense to you to get into it. Randy? Uh, how do, how do people figure out what it is they want? Well,

Randy: 11:37

I think that comes with research. I mean, it comes with, you know, trying to figure out what your job's all about, how it works. Where, what the possibilities are. I know I worked for, after I got outta the military for a year, I worked for Booz Allen Hamilton, which is huge, giant. I mean, it's just, it's got it's fingers tips in like a little bit of everything. And when my contract was not, uh, continued at the end of my first year there. Th they, they opened the doors and said, Hey, maybe you'll fit somewhere else. These are all the jobs out there available. And if you're interested in one and show, uh, you know, show that you have the, the ability to, to do it, we'll give you a test then we'll, we'll send you the training for free and, and you can start there cuz we've already, we've already vetted you. You've worked for a year. You've been in, uh, you know, a loyal, a loyal. Worker, uh, an employee and we want to keep you around cuz it, otherwise we have to onboard someone else and that takes, you know, six months or whatever. So, I don't know. I'm sure every company's not like that, but Booz Allen, Hampton, I gotta give'em thumbs up. They were awesome with the transition and they even said, you know, Hey, put all this, put all your requests in for whatever positions you want, whatever training you want, and we'll give you, you know, Three, three weeks or a month, I think month pay while you're trying to figure it out. Even if you want to interview with outside the company, you know, we want you to be happy cuz you, you did a really good job for us. So I think, but, but it, I didn't. For that first year I was working for them, I had no idea they had all these jobs available. I never even thought about it, but it was available to me in their system. I could have gone onto their, you know, internal website that everyone had access to and, and looked and figured it all out and understood it. So I think it's, it that lies a little bit on, you know, the person. Trying to figure out what they wanna do with their life. They have to be, do the research. They have to figure out what they love to do and what they don't like to do, and then they have to figure out what's available. And if the company they're in doesn't have that available, then maybe they're need, they need to shift over if they really want to be happy.

James: 13:52

I think what you're describing with. What happened to you at Booz Allen is a good point and it illustrates for me something important. Companies actually are happy to keep, uh, average and better employees because it's hard to find good employees who are a cultural fit, and that means there's an alignment of interests that. You shouldn't take for granted. Companies are happy to have employees who are motivated and hardworking, and they're happy to find a place for you to use your talents. Well, that might be in the job you're in. It might be in some other job they don't know and you don't know unless you talk about it with them and explore and do some research like you just said. What I also observed a lot in looking at my company, And we prided ourselves on keeping people for the bulk of their career. If we got a good employee, we were delighted if we could keep'em for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. I see a ton of people who think they've gotta move jobs every year and a half, two years, and I think, ugh. You know? Yeah, maybe depending upon what you're looking for, but you can also make a ton of progress staying in one organization and learning how to be effective in that organization. And anyway, my company was very happy keeping people, but the problem we sometimes ran up against was people had too fixed an. In their head of what the next step needed to be. So they had a career plan and they said, okay, I wanna become c e O in five years and to do that, I need to get this job and this job and this job. And our HR and management would come to that person and say, look, we support your ambitions. We wanna help you progress in your career. We are now offering you this job. It looks like a lateral. you know, so it's not an obvious promotion, it's a sideways move, but it's gonna give you exposure to new people. It's gonna give you, um, uh, an opportunity to learn some new skills that you don't have. And we see this as a step for you in your desired career path. And people would resist us and say, no, I need a promotion for my next step. And we'd say, this is, this is the way to get there. You might take two steps sideways, but then you'll leapfrog over somebody who didn't. And that suggests to me, You know, we started this by saying, how do you figure out what you want? And you said, do some research. And I guess I'm coming to the point that sometimes being too focused on what you want makes you inflexible at looking at alternative ways to get there. And if you're in an organization that supports you and wants you to go ahead, sometimes it, it plays to go along a little bit. Or here's another one. Even if the move, the lateral move isn't an. Step in your career where you can say, okay, I can see how that's gonna gimme skills or exposure to people or whatever, some experience that's gonna help me. What if it's just a scut job that needs to be done for a year and no one else is willing to do it, but you say, okay, yeah, I'll do it. We talked in previous episodes about the benefit of volunteering. We're going along. I do think there's something to that as well, being able to say, all right, I won't take only the glamorous jobs, only the ones that are obviously beneficial to me. Sometimes I'll do something that needs to be done that no one else is willing to do on the assumption that I'm gonna build goodwill and my company's gonna appreciate it. Yeah. That's already getting off the topic a little bit, but

Randy: 17:03

I mean, I don't think it's off topic to. You know, it goes back to what, what you said at the beginning. No, no one cares as much as you do. And what, what do people care about? They care about their. You know what, like what you were, what you started the, uh, podcast about. They care about the environment or they care about their one, their one do or die thing. But we've, we've moved that on. Is no one cares about your career more than you do? No. No one cares about your happiness more than you do. And so when you evaluate, I mean, I'm, I'm working with a client right now. He's, uh, he's the, uh, he makes a podcast called The Green Notebook, which is about military transitions and things like that cuz America, because the military army carries this little gro green notebook around in their, in their cargo pocket all the time so they can take notes and issued by the military and you can get as many as you want. I have like 200 of them. In my stuff that I left the army with that are useless because it's like, today I need to make sure that I have enough meals for the soldiers. I could throw that page away pretty much. Uh, and I have that 500 times in my little green notebook. But, um, uh, it's a really, it's a really, uh, been beneficial for a lot of military people. A lot of people, military people are listening into that, but, but what he we're, we're working through a series of articles for him about the hero's. Uh, and how you apply that to your career decisions. And maybe you have a call, a call to adventure, so to speak, of something else you want to do with your life. And it doesn't involve whatever you're doing to make money and put bread on the table. And ha. So maybe, maybe, you know, no one cares about your happiness as much as you do. Means if something else makes you happier than what you're doing to put bread at the table, maybe you make a. Maybe you do the research, maybe you say, I just watched a really great, uh, show on, uh, Netflix called True Spirit. Just came out, youngest, uh, wo, youngest woman, 16 year old, uh, to, to sail around the world from, she started in Australia when she, she knew what she wanted to do when she was 12 or. She told her, she told at the, at the, at the table, she's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna sail around the world and here's my plan. I gotta get this training, I get get this certification, I gotta get a boat. I gotta do this. I'm gonna, I got, I got, I'm gonna start four jobs tomorrow. I'm gonna save my money. I need this much money. I need this, I need to get some, some supporters, some, some donators and stuff. And she did it. And at 16 she launched and she sailed around the world. And it was this, it was a really great. I got some questions cause I don't know much about sailing, but you know, when the boat tipped over, it went underneath 15 feet and then it came and popped back up. I was like, is that real? Because that's always been a fear of mine too. But, but anyway, uh, sorry I ruined it for everybody, but, um, but the thing is, what makes you hap you need, I, I think, I think it's, this is missing in a lot in the world that people. Don't try to figure out what makes them happy. They get into the nut roll rat race of I gotta put bread on the table and then I'm gonna get promoted and I'll have more money to put bread on, more bread on the table and do other stuff. And, and, and they just do what they're doing because that's the way you need to exist in this world a lot of times. Um, but they don't kinda look outside that and say, you know what? I have this hobby. That I really love. And then don't say, can I monetize it? Are other people monetizing it? Is this something I can make a living at if I, if I wanted to? And what are the steps to get there? And I think we're still on topic, but we're, we're going off on a different tangent. I am. Any we anyway? Well, I think

James: 20:38

we're exploring the question of what do you care about and why? And I think it is definitely possible for people to get into a rut in their, what they're doing and not to step back and question it. And you know, that happens for good and practical reasons. You go to school, you study to be a lawyer, for example. You get out, you start working, and you might have invested 10 years of your life in this process. Before you say wake up one day and say, oh my gosh, I hate this. There's nothing about my job or what I'm doing that I really enjoy. And that's a tough realization to come to because of all of the time and effort that you've put into it. I do wanna maybe make a word of caution that. I don't think every moment of your life needs to be unalloyed bliss. I don't think you should love every second of your work. I think we've set the expectation for what people get out of their work so high that people are going to school and leaving school thinking Now, workplace world, I need to be delighted. I need to be entertained. I need to be feeling super happy every moment of the day. Well, actually, no you don't. You are. I don't think so anyway, and I don't, I hope I'm not coming across as cynical or grouchy. I, I think there's an element of satisfaction and enjoyment and fulfillment that should come from your work. You should feel like you're doing challenging, valuable work and making a significant contribution. But that doesn't mean every hour of every day is gonna be wonderful. And by the way, Your every hour of every day is not gonna be wonderful. Even if you are pursuing this wonderful passion that you have had since you were 12 years old. That woman who sailed around the world at 16 probably had many, many, many dark moments before she achieved her goals and had some fulfillment. So being realistic about what? Uh, Asking for what you want and pursuing what you want is gonna involve lots of hard work. It's gonna involve sacrifice, it's gonna involve not being happy. That's a, a useful thing to take to whatever endeavor you pursue. So, coming back to the lawyer, being a lawyer's hard work, it, it involves dry, dusty, boring stuff. Sometimes you have to read things, you have to deal with ods, clients, you have to deal with confrontational situations. That's okay, right? You can still look back and find your motivation by taking a, a, a bigger view and saying, all right, well, I see how not every aspect of my job is delightful, but I, I still see the benefit in doing it.

Randy: 23:07

Ods being smelly or hateful,

James: 23:11

depending upon your client. Uh,

Randy: 23:14

don't think, I don't have anything to add to that man.

James: 23:16

Yeah, I, the takeaway from me is, you know, don't have such unrealistic expectations. It's okay to pursue your dreams and to say if you're desperately unhappy and it's not gonna get better and you can't find any silver lining in it, then yeah, think about making a change. But there's nothing wrong with having worked hard to gain skills and experience. And then you can make a good living, getting it, pursuing it. There's nothing wrong with doing it and finding ways to be happy in what you're doing. So in other words, you don't always need a change to achieve happiness. Sometimes all you need is a change in attitude to find ways to be happy with what you're doing. I think anybody who spends. 10 years, 15 years, 20 years pursuing a career. You, you can't be desperately unhappy that whole time. And you shouldn't, you have to find ways to say, all right, th this is something that I, you know, I, I, I found satisfaction and enjoyment in

Randy: 24:09

so, do you have some tools? For them to address the single-minded, uh, person in your staff that is, that cares more about one particular thing that maybe you don't care about, um, and how you address that person and, and appease, for lack of a better word. And then tools. If you are that person, how do you make other people care?

James: 24:32

All right, so I'll maybe just give a few comments about both. If you're dealing with someone who. Strongly caring about an issue. Um, ignoring them is usually not a, a good approach because they care about the issue and it's gonna come back. I found just listening to them and acknowledging it just by itself is extremely helpful. So if someone says, look, you know, the clean air is the most important thing in the world to me, you. It's most productive to say, tell me about your concern. Tell me you know more about it. So just give'em the floor for a moment to express themselves, because until that need is met, they're gonna keep on trying to find ways to express themselves. So just that, listen to a person who feels strongly about an issue, then. I find that if you try to turn the conversation in a productive way by saying, all right, I hear you. I understand what your issue is, let's try and figure out if this is an issue that I or my company or, or my organization has a significant influence over. We're a software company. We don't actually produce anything that creates pollution. We aren't really a big contributor to, you know, this particular problem. I think, you know, we maybe. Have a bigger impact over here when it comes to working conditions for people or whatever, you know, and sort of try and create some rational link to what's your company's impact or your individual impact. That little two-step approach of saying, I hear you and let me try it, tie it back to something that I can influence, seems to help with the one issue stake.

Randy: 26:07

So I, I would add, I would add something to that, and I don't know how you feel about this, but, um, when people in the military came to me with their single point of passion, I would say, I hear you. It sounds like something that, uh, that we should, we might wanna be concerned about. What are your solutions for? And then, and then have them come up with the solutions. Not that I can't think about'em, but I probably got 500 other, other people who have their single passions that wanna talk to. So I, the idea is, hey, if, if this is your, if this is your, what's most important to you? And you, you've done the research and you know more about it probably than I do. What do you, what do you think we could do about it as a, as a company, as a group, as uh, individuals in the room and, and, and get back to me with some, some options, and then let's talk about it. And then also at that time, once they've done the research, And you talk about'em, you can kind of mitigate that. It's like, well this isn't feasible cuz it costs a million dollars. You know? And you know. Yeah. Yeah. We could put some multiple recycled trashcans in here for different kinds of trash. Yeah, we could do that. Uh, that sounds pretty reasonable. Probably. It's probably legally we have to right now, thanks for bringing it up. You know, I'm gonna give you an award.

James: 27:28

No, I. You know, I like that from the perspective that it puts a little bit of the responsibility back on the person, which is, you know, just because they raised the issue doesn't mean it becomes your problem that you have to solve. Uh, I was a little hesitant about doing that too openly because the people I was dealing with had no problem making outrageously unreasonable demands. oh, well you should close the company and you know, then you won't have any more impact on the environment. Well, yeah, I think we could do that. Or you should only hire blind people from now on because, you know, people who, uh, from diverse backgrounds will be better employees or, you know, they would come. And, and legitimately expect us to implement very one-dimensional solutions. But this takes me to the second half of your question, which is, if you are a person who cares strongly about an issue, how should you deal with the world? And I think we can absolutely take, uh, maybe two, two pieces to heart and they would be recognized that no one else cares as much as you. And like you just said, I, you know, if I'm the boss, I have 500 other people bugging me and 500 other things on my mind. You've gotta recognize that you are competing for attention. And so one way people do that is by becoming more strident, more vocal, more insistent. That works to a point. If you see the person's never gonna go away, you might devote some attention to them, but it also makes you a bit annoying. So it's not necessarily always the best way to go. I found the best way to deal. Getting people a portion of people's limited attention was twofold. Simplify your message and repeat your message. So just have a very simple point and not being a jerk about it, but take multiple opportunities to try and raise it. So I'll give you an example when I had to give. Guidance on a new compliance topic to the global organization. I knew, you know, there's 16,000 employees who were not just waiting to get an email from me telling them some new law they had to comply with. So you have a limited number of options to get in front of people. Your employees can come to you not every five minutes of the day, right? They can come to you every now and then, and then if their message was too complicated, it just goes right over the person's head. So, simplifying the message and repeating the message is how I tried. Get a little bit of people's limited a.

Randy: 29:49

And, uh, I would just carry on my solution for the other one, which is come with solutions of your own. Yes. You know, and, and especially, uh, you know, if they ask, great. If they don't, you can always provide one of'em and say, Hey, we, it's the easy, the easiest thing we could do is do this and it, and it wouldn't cost that much money or whatever. Make it, make it as simple, make your first. Push a simple solution, not close the company down, but you know, hey, we could do this. This would be, you know, this would make it a little bit easier for everyone and would make me complain less.

James: 30:21

That's actually a really good point because it also takes advantage of. Other psychological principles. Once a person takes a step, even a small step, they're more likely to say, oh, I'm the kind of person who cares about, you know, the environment or whatever, that recycling that issue. And it's easier than to take additional steps. So, uh, as a decision management, uh, risk management, uh, psychological principle, just getting people to take even a tiny step is a really good approach. If you get your boss interested in your career and helping you even in a little tiny. Hey, help me understand what my options are. Where can I go look to find out what my organization does for me? And you answer and you say, Hey, go look at this website. Well, guess what? You've just created an ally and your boss who now is helping you manage your career. So yes, I like that idea. Come with a very, uh, uh, you know, hopefully you have a whole list of solutions from the very simple thing to the, the ultimate goal you're looking for. And then be happy if your organization or your boss agrees to work with you, even on a very simple one.

Randy: 31:22

Yeah. So, yep. So we went all over the place. Uh, well we, we did get some tools in the end that worked for pretty much everything we discussed, even though we went to the galaxy and back. Um, but hopefully those are helpful to you. Okay. Thanks everybody. Thanks.