Self Destruction: Finding it within yourself to get up and take a different path, Michael Haburay part 2

We're all shaped by the moments that challenge us. This is part 2 with musical genius Michael Haburay. This episode begins with Michael and host, Ann, sharing the loss of both of their dad's at a very young age and their paths of self destruction and rebellion.

The duo share what it took to get into treatment and to turn their lives around.  Tough life experiences bring you to a fork in the road. Mike had watched his dad die from alcoholism and he decided to take a different path. We all have choices to help us out of our own self-destruction. Michael and Ann found their way out, one step at a time. One moment at a time.  

This episode is dedicated to those who have or want to forge new paths. This is not about the darkness; this is a story of of hope and healing. This promises to touch on the resilience required to stare down our demons and choose a different path. 

The two talk about their rock bottom, but listen as they celebrate life post-addiction, painted with stories of rediscovery. This promises to leave you with a sense of hope and courage to embrace life's next verse. Rewrite your story. One lyric at a time. 

Mike points out how going down a path of self-destruction is just a symptom of an underlying problem and that there is not progress without struggle. Let's listen, overcome and choose a different path, together. 

Listen to part 1 of Michael's story and learn about his dad's story, his early years, and what led him to being one of the best guitarists. 

You can join us each week anywhere you get your podcasts. You can listen to us every Sunday morning at 11 am on WDJYFM.com out of Atlanta and online. You can also listen to us on Denver’s radio station 92.9 and 89.3. You can listen online at denver open media.org and you can watch us on San Francisco’s Pacifica Community Television on Comcast Channel 26 and 27 and online at pacific coast tv.  You can reach us on facebook at Real Talk with Tina and Ann and you can go catch all of our episodes or message us at realtalktinaann.com. You can catch our monthly newsletters and get special messages. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. This is part two with musical genius Michael Habre. Part one is a must listen if you want to watch a clip of him playing, and listen to him talk about his early years and what got him to be one of the best guitarists, as a trained musician and playing for the best band in Cleveland, ohio. Part two starts with Michael and host Ann sharing the loss of both of their dads at such a young age and how their young life sent them down a path of self-destruction. They share what they both went through in treatment and what it took to turn their lives around and never look back. Tough life experiences brings you to a fork in the road. Mike had watched his dad die from alcoholism and he decided to take a different path in his 20s. We all have a choice to make. To help us out of the pits of our own self-destruction, michael and host Ann found their way out. It really is up to you to turn your life around, one step at a time, one moment at a time. Mike points out how going down a path of self-destruction is just a symptom of an underlying problem. Listen to this episode as we share our road to recovery and starting over. Mike also points out that there really is not progress without struggle. Points out that there really is not progress without struggle.

Speaker 1: 1:28

This is an episode about healing mental health loss but, most importantly, overcoming and choosing a different path. Anyone can do it. You can join us each week, anywhere you get your podcasts. You can listen to us every Sunday morning at 11 am on WDJYFMcom out of Atlanta and online. You can also listen to us on Denver's radio station 92.9 and 89.3. You can listen online at denveropenmediaorg and you can watch us on San Francisco's Pacifica Community Television on Comcast Channel 26 and 27, and online at Pacific Coast TV. You can reach us on Facebook at Real Talk with Tina and Anne, and you can go catch all of our episodes or message us at realtalktinaannecom. You can catch our monthly newsletters and get special messages. Thank you for supporting us.

Speaker 1: 2:17

And here is part two, with Michael Hebray Talked a little bit about having that thing in common where both of our dads passed away really young and you know what it did for me was made me into this like rebellious teen. My dad died when I was 11. I don't think I was ever the same after that. I kind of call them mile markers in our lives, where something really changed our entire life path, and that did that for me, I think. For a long time I was just angry with the world, and I really was. I was like this rebellious teen. How old were you when your dad passed away?

Speaker 2: 2:53

So that was 2006. So I was 10. And I guess a lot of the same for me. My whole thing was it.

Speaker 2: 3:01

It's weird, though, like mine kind of like hardened me, and so much is that, like most people who know me know that if it's a crisis situation, I'm the one they want at the wheel because I can, just from the aftermath of his past just having to deal with life keep the house, pay off all the bills he ran up and this and that and the other, moving forward with a single income home. You know, we didn't have time to be upset. I've gained this ability, which PSA do not rely on this all the time. You have to connect with your emotions, because this leads to one of the next things we talk about. So it's not roses all the time, but you know it is useful when you decide to use it, to be able to kind of disassociate and be like OK, you know everybody else is freaking out, but we need to do this, this, this, this, and then other people will be like well, what about this? I'm like like, well, that doesn't matter, because if we don't do this first, we can't even get to that.

Speaker 2: 4:12

So we need to do to get through this and and my rebellion as opposed to like open rebellion, my whole thing in school was like I was up to a lot of stuff that nobody really even knew about, but like I was an A student, I was on the sports team, so like the administration left me alone, I was like undercover. I still wasn't listening to anybody about nothing. You know, I played the game because I saw it was just easier to play it. My other options were like detention and suspension all the time and I was just like, well, that's kind of stupid. Why would I do that? Like I already hate that I have to be here for seven and a half hours. Why would I want to be here for two more, exactly. So, yeah, I'll just give lip service to all that and make everybody feel good about themselves like they're the best and and keep doing what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 4:59

Um, but that's how my my rebellion manifested itself yeah, well, I was going to ask you about how it affected your path in life, which I already pretty much know, because you know, you and I also have another thing in common, and we both went the route of using chemicals to help numb Amen to that. To help numb Amen to that, yeah, and you know I got clean and went through the AA and NA and treatment and all that stuff and I started drinking really young after my dad died, unfortunately. So when did you start?

Speaker 2: 5:39

Like 14, 15, 16-ish. I was too damn smart for my own good, so I was able to sneak around and do what I needed to do and have fun how I wanted to have fun. You know, the root of it all goes back to what I said earlier is like I thought just hardening myself was just going to be the way to live, mm-hmm. But all that pain and all that angst and all that, you have to deal with it somehow, because one way or another it's going to manifest itself somehow, whether you like it or not. Pain like that is, it's there, whether you like it or not, and if you don't deal with it it'll manifest itself in ways you can't control. You know, there I was thinking I was tommy, tough nuts and and like nothing could hurt me and this and that, and you know. And then I drank more. Then I drank more and then college rolled around.

Speaker 2: 6:32

I was getting drunk every night, but in college everybody's just like, well, that's what college kids do exactly and to a certain degree, they're not wrong. I think it was like my junior year of school when it really kind of started to hit me that like I'm just going to the bar, I'm not going because I want to, started really overtly being a way of just dealing with what was going on in my head all the time. And then you know, you get through college and now we're what at? Like 2018, I'd earned my first gold star DUI. Like 2018, I'd earned my first gold star dui and, uh, you know, did the probation for that and played the game like I did in high school and did real nice and all that.

Speaker 2: 7:14

And as soon as I was off off my papers, I went back to what I was doing and, lo and behold, within six months after I got off my papers, I got another dui and this time was D-runk, with a capital D. They threw the book at me for the second one, man, oh, wow. So I did 28 days in the Wayne County jail Wow, okay. And 32 days of house arrest immediately following at my mother's, and then was on probation for two solid years. How old were you? You said college, um, so this, the second one was like right after college, so I was like 22 or 23 was that a wake-up call?

Speaker 2: 7:58

yeah, because you know, whatever happened, whatever I knew, I knew I wasn't going back there and you know I did like the outpatient, but I still like after I got off, like the monitoring and like all of this other stuff, I still drank again.

Speaker 1: 8:15

I did.

Speaker 2: 8:16

But finally, you know, the thing that really got me was Shelby bailing out of my life. This person, who had been always with me, could not deal with my crazy ass anymore, for her own mental health and safety.

Speaker 1: 8:31

Oh geez. That would be rough.

Speaker 2: 8:34

I mean in hindsight it was terrible, but in hindsight I absolutely earned it. She had to protect herself. At a certain point I was just a swirling whirlwind of chaos and anger, luckily. Luckily that anger manifested and, like the, the biggest threat I was to anybody was me. Luckily I, my stuff like that didn't manifest outward because I I don't know what I if I could live with having ever physically hurt anybody. Right, you were just going inward with everything and ready to implode, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2: 9:10

But after that I was finally just like all right, this is ridiculous. I called up a friend of mine who had been sober for like 10 or 13 years or somewhere between there, I can't remember. Eric Schmiedl, what a wonderful human, grateful, oh him, my life. And he asked him to like be my sponsor during lockdown. I decided so. I went to my first meeting next to my mom's house, at the church where we were in lawn chairs, in a parking lot.

Speaker 1: 9:38

OK.

Speaker 2: 9:39

And then, you know, my sponsor at the time lived in Sheffield Lake, so I would just go to my meeting once a week and call him up, you know, after the meeting, and we would talk almost every day. And one of the big keys, I think, to people making a good go of it is A you got to want it for you, because at that point I had no idea whether I was ever going to see Shelby again, and you know, if I didn't, I was accepting of the fact that I absolutely deserved that. I just had to do it like for me. That's the big one. The first one is you have to want to. I'm like this is crazy, you suck, I don't even recognize the person I look at in the mirror, like it.

Speaker 2: 10:23

And a lot, a lot of the latter drinking really was to just kind of numb the pain of compromising my own moral compass on such a regular basis. And the big thing is, though, too, is that I sought out help for my mental health. You know we got on some really mild anxiety medication, started talking through some things. Aa also helped a bunch with that as far as being more open and being willing to talk about things, but the alcoholism or whatever chemical it is, is but a symptom of an underlying problem. I think where people run afoul of getting better is they're not actually dealing with their mental health. Of getting better is they're not actually dealing with their mental health Because you can't just white knuckle your way through the rest of forever not using chemicals.

Speaker 1: 11:10

Not if you don't deal with the pain.

Speaker 2: 11:13

No, you got to be, you got to be okay with it.

Speaker 1: 11:22

When all that was happening to me and all of my young adult life probably until even I was around 30, I was the same way, and that's the way I dealt with it too. I was completely hardened and I wouldn't let anything in, and I think that the numbing contributed to that, and it was the only way that I really felt that I could get through. And I, too, went through treatment, got out of treatment and I drank to celebrate. So there you go.

Speaker 2: 11:54

The court can order whatever they want. If, if you're not willing to do it for yourself, then it it's. It's not going to be successful, it's just not. I mean you, you, you can string together, you know, six months a year. Just, I've done that many times, you know, because they, you know, tested me on probation pretty regularly oh, ok Well, and you know they didn't trust me at all. So, like after my house arrest was done, they kept my anklet on me, because the anklet monitored my blood alcohol content through my sweat.

Speaker 1: 12:28

Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Yeah, they kept that thing on me for like three more months after house arrest or like four more months. Okay, they were not playing around.

Speaker 1: 12:39

So that actually gave you a head start on being able to live life sober, I would think.

Speaker 2: 12:45

Yeah, the couple of like I said, once all that came off, I still went yeah you went back out off. I still went, yeah, you went back out, yeah, but it definitely, it definitely gave me a good start in. So much is that like it was. It was pretty horrifying to me just how hard it was when I realized just how much of a power this thing had over me I was like oh shit. Yeah, I didn't think I was an alcoholic. Why is it this hard to not? Oh wait.

Speaker 1: 13:16

You know it's a hard realization to realize something has some has a control over you, because we work so hard to not be controlled.

Speaker 2: 13:27

To be independent and sovereign and all those fun words.

Speaker 1: 13:30

Yeah, but to realize this chemical has so much control over you because all you want to do is numb, you don't want to think, you don't want to feel.

Speaker 2: 13:40

Yeah, you don't want to do any of it. It's just so much better without it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:44

Well, I woke up one morning and I said to myself I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:52

And because it gets to a certain point where it just objectively sucks Like this is not, this is not how people are meant to live, this is horrible. I feel like crap all the time. You know like yeah, I did too. You kind of run out of ways to justify it to yourself.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Yeah, I woke up Wanting a drink. I went to bed After my last drink. You know, I mean, that's the way I lived for a long time and that's really no way to live and you're really missing out. I mean, now, when I go to concerts, I'm like you know, I experience it and I remember concerts where I didn't remember at the concert, yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:28

And you know, when I, when I like, really quit to like, when I like did the thing, the, the crazy part to me was just how bad it had gotten because, like, the withdrawals were very physical and very real. Like I was shaky, I was sweaty, I had the weirdest dreams for like that first month, like dreams, so real, you thought you were awake. You know, just wild, wild, like physical things. I'm just like yo, we are 24, this is not, this is not okay. You know, I don't know you, you, you just learn a lot going through something like that well, thank god you did realize it so young, because that's still pretty young, because yeah, I mean I, I could still be drinking down.

Speaker 2: 15:23

I I wouldn't have done any of the things that I've been able to do since then. Anybody, anybody out there that I'm sure had like aa loves its cliches, so I'm not even gonna like try and try and say that. It's not corny sometimes when you hear people talking to you about it, like the old timers like to just throw cliches at you and you know the promises are real. If you, if you stay sober, you will absolutely have the ability to go out and accomplish whatever it is you want to accomplish. If you put your mind to it, it's real. It's a thing I was playing exactly never between 2018 and like 2020.

Speaker 2: 16:04

I was too busy being wasted, like all the strings on my guitars were rusty. It was horrible. I can't imagine you not playing Gosh. It's going to be four years next month. In these four years, I've gotten to do everything I ever wanted to do in music. Honestly, I've surpassed what I even thought I would be able to do as far as performing. So like, if you're thinking about it, ah, no, you know it's not going to get all that much better. Yes, it will, because I was just as skeptical as anybody. I don't take much on faith ever. It's real. So if anybody's listening to this that feels like they're so full of crap, like when they're telling you about how good it can be, they're not. It can.

Speaker 1: 16:50

Yeah, I mean, you can definitely accomplish the dreams that you want to when you're clean. I can remember people saying to me and I held on to this, and this was one of the things that got me to stop using was they said do anything but use, just do anything but use.

Speaker 2: 17:07

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 17:08

And I can honestly say that that was one of those you know, moved one step at a time to get forward kind of moments, and especially at the beginning. So I did everything that I could just not to use and it really did push me forward.

Speaker 2: 17:28

Yeah, I mean, I mean it led me to, you know, meeting Mikey. One of the things I did religiously during lockdowns, you know, being freshly sober was go to one of the only places that was open. I got me a gym membership and lifted every day, and of course, they wouldn't even talk to me about letting me have driving privileges. Like usually when you apply for driving privileges, they give you like a reason why you're not eligible, so you need to do this, this and this or complete this treatment thing, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 18:01

I, after that second one, I applied for driving privileges. In the letter I got back just said no, so I would walk, and I would walk all the way to the Planet Fitness on Lorraine by St Ignatius and back every day to work out. And a lot of times I would go like in the middle of the night, because 11 pm midnight, you know, that's when you start getting antsy, and so I would just go lift heavy things and put them back down again until I couldn't keep my eyes open. And on one of those walks is where I met Mikey. See, it was meant to be it all connects.

Speaker 2: 18:35

It really does. I mean you know the every experience you have in your life. You have no idea how, how it can domino into the rest of your life you know there's been times where I have been tempted to pick back up again.

Speaker 1: 18:48

Have you ever felt tempted? Always okay, so you still are you a regular aa attender still?

Speaker 2: 18:58

um, I don't go as much as I'd like to, um, but I'm still hitting like a meeting a month or so. But I mean you know that that I mean I work in bars and concert venues and you know that's gotta be tough, they say, to change people, places and things.

Speaker 2: 19:14

Yeah, and honestly I still like think about it, but I don't like crave it anymore. I know very clearly that like it's not anything that I want, but you know there's definitely still like stressful situations that poke right at that very specific, you know, and it's just, ah, sucks.

Speaker 1: 19:34

But then you've got Shelby at the forefront, who you want to keep forever. Now that you're engaged, you've got, you know, this great music career, this great band, and you don't want to lose any of it.

Speaker 2: 19:47

No, and I absolutely will. If I pick back up again, and that's a great way to like that. I just kind of keep it, yeah, because that is that is when I will be a little bit hard on myself. It's like, hey, idiot, yeah, you have all this stuff. Stop being fatalistic and being like I have nothing to lose.

Speaker 2: 20:07

It's like you have so much to lose more yeah, yeah, you do you do, you know, and I think you know, I think we're like, if you can keep reminding yourself of that, you'll, you'll avoid a lot, because a lot of people get to these like fatalistic places where I have nothing to lose, and it's like, actually it can you do for those of us who have been on the floor, like in the basement, literally you, a lot of times. People have no idea just how bad it can be and those of us who have experienced it know it and don't want to go back.

Speaker 1: 20:42

Yeah, I never want to go back. I just can't even imagine me being that person again. I mean, I said that I lived. You know, I've lived many different lives and that was a life I can tell you. I never want to go back to. I like where I am, Me too, so I mean, but I like where both of us are but this has been a journey for both of us.

Speaker 2: 21:04

This has really been a journey for you and obviously I think it's made you a better person, would you say I think it does for all of us, and I don't know if this is true all the time, but it's definitely true some of the time that like it really doesn't seem to be any progress without struggle, and I like that. That's good, just just the working through every difficult thing, like when I was on house arrest. They let me leave to go to work and I would wait tables, let me work with my anklet on.

Speaker 1: 21:34

Oh my God, that's OK, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Yeah, I mean I wore pants and covered it. It wasn't like a big public thing.

Speaker 1: 21:41

Okay, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Yeah, I mean, I wore pants and covered it, it wasn't like a big public thing but like that anklet is like hundreds of dollars like a month. They charge you like a daily rate for like the equipment fee, so every cent I was making going to work. I was just walking over to the courthouse a block away and just like turning it into the probation department for months. You know even the littlest things. It's like you have a job and you get paid. In the money you can keep Like the littlest things, like people have a lot to lose. And then when you have that like struggle and you see how just bad it can be. I think you build a lot of resilience that way and reminding yourself that it's kind of how you keep from that Like I have nothing to lose thing. Because I have nothing to lose thing. What is it? What are? The old timers call it Terminal uniqueness. My situation is different. I have nothing to lose. It's like yeah, it's not.

Speaker 1: 22:30

And you do like you know, and really the old timers really do know what they're talking about regardless of all the cliches and everything they really do.

Speaker 1: 22:40

I actually went to Dr Bob's house. Is that Dr Bill W and all that stuff? I mean I did the tour and went to Dr Bob's house and get to see where he used to hide his bottles and you know, go to Stan Hewitt and go to the Mayflower Hotel and see where it originated and everything. It was really. It really was a spiritual experience for me to walk the same places that they did.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean I haven't talked about all that in a while.

Speaker 1: 23:21

Now that you are here in life and you have really worked hard to get where you are, do you see anything holding you back from being as big as your dreams? Other than me? No, I've always been my biggest obstacle, always I think we all are.

Speaker 2: 23:36

I think we all are really because I think we're all gifted and skilled in our own ways and, you know, if we can just organize what's up here and keep it from biting back against us, I think we all have the capability to do whatever it is we want to do.

Speaker 1: 23:52

When my dad died I was at the pinnacle of my swimming career. I guess you could say I was only 11 years old, but I was one of the top swimmers in the country. I guess you could say I was only 11 years old, but I was one of the top swimmers in the country, and I could not get back on that medal stand after he passed away. And I always associated success with loss, success with death or you know something tragic happening, and so I would always get to the point where I would get right on the verge of success.

Speaker 2: 24:47

And then I would just throw it all away. I think about how good I could be right now if I worked the way I have for the past four years as a musician, as a person, if I had been working like that since I was like 21 or 22, or if I'd been working like that since I was 18. There's one regret I live with. It's that thinking about how good I could be if I applied myself sooner.

Speaker 1: 25:01

Well, if this means anything, I still think that you're pretty good. You're one of the best that I know. So trust is one of the hardest things I have had to deal with, and I would say that I've always had, you know, walls and walls, and walls so thick so people can't, you know, penetrate them. And you are such an enigma or a contrast, I guess, you could say because on the one hand, you are this gentle giant guy who wears his heart on his sleeve, but you are also that guy that you know keeps everybody at an arm's length and don't and you don't let anybody in. So what happened to that, mike and I? Maybe it goes all the way back to your dad's death, and how things happen. I'm not really sure, but somewhere along the way you've you know, trust has really become a big issue for you.

Speaker 2: 25:56

Well, I think I'm getting better at it, like these days, in so much as that, like I'm not holding people to unrealistic standards anymore. You know this like trust isn't some like law set down by Moses that cannot be violated, whatever Like cause. If we all really sit there and think about it, we all suck Sometimes. We all do crappy things, whether it's to ourselves or each other, and if you're going to do a crappy thing to each other, statistically speaking, you'll likely do that crappy thing to one of the people that you love the most, simply by virtue of spending the most time around the people that you love the most.

Speaker 1: 26:40

Yeah, we hurt the ones we love so like for me.

Speaker 2: 26:44

I'm starting to kind of just relax and accept that, like even the people I love the most are going to do crappy things. I'm going to do crappy things. You know, if I love you and I trust you, I'm still going to trust you, even if you did a crappy thing. My, I guess my philosophy in that so much isn't that like I'm not trusting anybody, it's just I don't have the emotional bandwidth to be on that level with like a great many people. I kind of have to keep my circle small.

Speaker 2: 27:14

And that's great hey cause like.

Speaker 2: 27:17

I think people spread themselves too thin a lot of the times emotionally and burn themselves out. And I just know myself, I'm not. I'm not staking my, my, my emotions and my emotional health and mental health on you know how 100 people treat me or what 100 people do. I. You know, I've got maybe five to ten people that are that close to me and in my life and if I've, if I've decided that you're in that ring with me, like you can kind of do whatever you want because, like I've accepted the fact that, like we're close, you know everybody does crappy things and sometimes you're gonna do a crappy thing to me. It's not like I need to cut anybody off or anything like that. So I I think I'm working on it.

Speaker 1: 28:03

I'm the same way. I don't let very many people in my little circle. I recently saw this show where this young man was making the decision between going to the NFL or finishing college and his mom gave him the best advice because he felt so much pressure. And so she said block out the noise. Now what do you want to do? So what would you be in 10 years without the noise, without any obstacles in your way?

Speaker 2: 28:37

You know if I'm touring around the country making you know a decent living, getting to play music with my friends. That's Nirvana. That's, that's it, that's it.

Speaker 1: 28:51

That's all I need being up there doing your thing.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Yep, whatever else, well, and Shelby being there with me too, should be on the road with me. But, um, yeah, if I have that, I'm good, I'm set. You know I've already. How could I ask for more?

Speaker 1: 29:08

I'm a pretty simple person, yeah yeah, I would say that about you now. You've had a lot of um. You know you're really into all types of music, like we talked about, but what would you say?

Speaker 2: 29:19

some of your biggest influences are old blues music, first and foremost, like all the stuff that was recorded like to wax, and then like the really old stuff from like the 30s and 40s and 50s and the deep south was, was huge for me and my understanding of the guitar and how the guitar applies to melody. And then you know the content too. I always kind of related to um, it's tough, it's hard, it's pain, it's authentic. I think. First, before anything, I'd have to say the blues is probably one of my biggest influences, like most rock music really.

Speaker 1: 29:52

You have really dedicated your entire life to your dream, so for anyone out there that wants to follow in a similar path, what advice would you give them?

Speaker 2: 30:02

Be consistent, keep doing it, keep working. Just because you're working in something that you, that is your dream too. Don't get discouraged when some days feel like work. Some days are going to feel like work, and that's okay. And remember why you're doing what you're doing and just keep doing it Like that's the biggest thing. I mean talent be damned. The biggest thing that anybody can do to pursue anything that they want to do is just be consistent with it, keep doing it, period.

Speaker 1: 30:35

What are some of the biggest things that you've learned about yourself through sobriety and through music?

Speaker 2: 30:42

I'm not as complicated as I thought I was. I think that's the biggest one. It was like. When it comes down to it, you know, I I like the things that I like and I get to see the things that I love and I have those things and, you know, I have those people in my life. It's really not all that complex. I always used to think I was this big, complicated, tortured soul. I'm not. I'm not. I just want to play guitar with my friends and make people happy.

Speaker 1: 31:12

I think that's just part of being a young angst-filled person. But then you grow out of it person you know, but then you grow out of it If I get to continue to make a living.

Speaker 2: 31:23

You know making people happy and giving them a reprieve from their day, and just you know people. An enjoyable experience for a couple hours.

Speaker 1: 31:36

What more could anybody ask for? I think that's a pretty noble pursuit. Have your challenges or your successes shaped you the most, would you say?

Speaker 2: 31:42

Oh, failures. I tell my students all the time go out and put yourself in tenuous situations, fail as much as you can. I succeeded a lot when I was young. I succeeded with like minimal effort. I was drunk, 75% of college and I still graduated summa cum laude. I succeeded a lot and clearly the results I learned shit that jail, house arrest and everything that came after that. I learned more in those two years than I've ever learned at any point in my life. So you know it doesn't have to be, you know, a drastic fireball of failure like I did. But you know, musically, go out and fail. Go out and play with people better than you get shown up, you will learn the most.

Speaker 2: 32:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:32

I believe in that. What would you say? The highlight of your career is so far playing the playing winter landland.

Speaker 2: 32:40

I I love, I I love the, I love the holidays very, very much yeah, and it's just such a beautiful, warm and and loving time of year and um, getting to play for, you know, 30 000 people that are just so happy to like, especially that first one where everybody's just so happy to be out and like gathered together for this happy occasion and to get to be part of that was one of the highlights of like my life.

Speaker 1: 33:07

I can tell you, you know well, when I saw you guys play at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the one time was really touching to me. Just the backdrop, of course. And then yeah, it was amazing. I mean, you've got Terminal Tower in the background, you've got the Rock Hall right here, just the lights and just you know it was amazing. But that Winterfest was I don't know. It was just a whole other level.

Speaker 2: 33:35

It was beautiful. It really was. I will be able to hold on to that forever. It really was. I will be able to hold on to that forever.

Speaker 1: 33:41

If you had anything that you would say to that you know young Mike, or that 16 year old kid, or that person who's getting in a lot of trouble later, what would you say?

Speaker 2: 34:02

You're not as smart as you think you are and talent will only get you so far. That's good. Tom Brady isn't Tom Brady. On talent Tom Brady is Tom Brady because he's talented, but he also outworked everybody while also being talented. Maximize. Maximize your potential, Don't skate. Talent is just talent.

Speaker 1: 34:22

But it's not going anywhere if you don't work hard at it and if you don't show up. I always say one of the biggest things is just to show up.

Speaker 2: 34:28

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 34:30

Mike, I just want to thank you so much for being on Real Talk with Tina and Anne, and I have been so honored that you were willing to share your life's journey and your music, and I will forever follow your music journey.

Speaker 2: 34:46

I'm grateful to be a part of this. This has been really fun. I really appreciate it.