Directing your life: When your story ends, did your script and cast meet your expectations?

This episode is inspired by a Jeff Lewis podcast episode featuring  Dr. Donna Dannenfelser, who impressively transitioned from knowing absolutely nothing about football to a counselor for the New York through a mix of humor and heartfelt stories, the pair place their lives on a stage. We each write the scripts for our lives and cast the people in our play. Did each person play the role they were assigned? Did our script go according to plan? We are the directors of our play. Do we have more responsibility for the parts people play in our life? If we are exactly where we are supposed to be in life, why do we focus on the things or people who are not there.   

They also discuss their life in a train analogy. You will hear Tina and Ann's take of how each train car has a role in our life and if we are willing to leave our baggage in the baggage car and leave our past in the caboose. Part 2 will discuss more on this subject.
Tina shares her wisdom on how she believes there are times to be wounded and give yourself time to heal and learn. 

The amazing Dr. Donna Dannenfelser, is a counselor from Los Angeles and you can reach her website at The Real Dr. Donna D (therealdrdonnad.com)
The Jeff Lewis podcast can be heard on Siriusxm.

Ann shares a quote from her seven-year-old son on this topic.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne. I am Tina.

Speaker 2: 0:11

And I am Anne. You know, tina, we always start this podcast with, you know, our normal introduction, and I'm always left with the words real talk, and that's what we are really doing here. And this episode especially has really hit me, you know, I know that we have an incredible podcast, but I also listen to other podcasts, and there's one and I was out mowing okay, the other day and I just thought to myself I'm gonna just listen to a no-nonsense podcast, something that doesn't even matter, something that's not gonna make me think at all, and it did the exact opposite of that for me. So I don't know if anybody that listens to our podcast is into Real Housewives of Beverly Hills or the Bravo franchise as much as I am, but there is a show that Jeff Lewis has. If anybody knows who Jeff Lewis is, he does the flipping houses and renovations for the stars and things like that. And I was just listening to this, what I thought was going to be like, you know, just a mowing experience, which turned out to be a very learning experience for me, and I, as I'm listening to it, I'm just like, oh my gosh, I have to write that down, I have to write that down. And so I came back in and had to listen to the whole thing again and I just took all kinds of notes.

Speaker 2: 1:46

He had a guest on and her name is Dr Donna Danfelser, if I'm saying that right, and apparently she's really well known because I googled her and the entire time I was listening. She just had so many nuggets of wisdom. Now Dr Donna has written books and, like a counselor to the stars, I instantly got her book and I started reading it and I just wanted to soak in all this wisdom that she had. She had a show called Necessary Roughness. That was an actual series after her life as a counselor to the New York Jets and she decided she was going to be that even though she knew nothing about football at the time Absolutely nothing she told herself that she was going to be the counselor to them and she ended up doing it. She just made it happen. Have you ever just wanted something so badly that you just believed it was going to happen?

Speaker 1: 2:46

Yes, and I believe there is power in positive thinking, manifestation, affirmations, all of those things. And I've done this before too, when I've wanted this kind of sounds funny, but when I've wanted to see animals on my hikes or adventures, I feel like I think so hard about it, like I'm going to, I'm going to, or maybe I just stick around long enough to where I'm able to. I don't know what it is, but I do that. Or if I set my mind to accomplishing something, actually like landing my first real radio gig, I wanted the specific job that someone else had and I wanted those hours and I worked my butt off to be able to get that and just told myself and believed in myself that I was going to do it. So yeah, I think there is something to it for sure.

Speaker 2: 3:34

I really do believe in it. I've done that too. You know, this is kind of funny because the first time that I saw this man, he came into a game, at a basketball game that I was at, I was sitting clear crossed in the stands and here comes and all these people were walking in. I mean tons and tons of people were walking into this game at college and my friend was sitting next to me and I said I'm going to marry that guy. Well, he did. And it's so crazy because I didn't know him, I had never met him, there was nothing, but there was just something inside of me that knew that that was going to happen.

Speaker 1: 4:15

It's so funny, anne, I never knew that part. Well, what might be funnier or more odd, if you want to to is that something similar happened with me when I first met my husband. We were in college and the very first words out of my mouth when we had met at a mutual friend's apartment was oh, can I have your babies? And it was because I have curly hair. It just went downhill from there and I was like, oh, you know, you spend the next 10 minutes trying to explain yourself. And then finally, I'm like, by the way, my name is Tina, so that that just wrapped me up. But here we are, three kids and, 15 years later, married. I know some people called me psycho at the time and I'm like no, no, no, I was psychic, there is a difference. Oh, ok.

Speaker 2: 5:09

OK. Well, it's funny that he just didn't run out the door as soon as you said that to him.

Speaker 1: 5:14

He didn't. He even answered that. He left me his phone number. He even answered my call the next day.

Speaker 2: 5:20

Oh, you called him OK.

Speaker 1: 5:23

I did, you do.

Speaker 2: 5:25

And I do believe that when you know, you know, I mean that's a really, that's really well said. You know, I've done that with jobs that I've had. I knew that I was going to get a swim coaching job. I've done that with my book, my master's degree and lots of different jobs that I've had. I mean, I just, I believe in manifesting and I know that we talked about that before, but I do A lot of hard work and manifestation, I think goes a really long way.

Speaker 2: 5:55

You know, she said that you have to do life by yourself, but you can't do it alone. I mean, isn't that?

Speaker 1: 6:04

good, you know, yeah. So yeah, it definitely is, and I think that fits me pretty well. I interpret it as you have to work hard for what you want and manifest what you want, while also having a village to share life with.

Speaker 2: 6:17

Right, I mean it made me think of how we come into this world alone and how we go out alone. You know that kind of quote that. I've heard before, but all the things in between. We're on our path, but people are joining us and people help us and we help them along the way. But we really are kind of doing this by ourselves at the same time.

Speaker 1: 6:39

It's both. Yeah, yeah, it is.

Speaker 2: 6:43

So the other part to that was we are exactly where we are supposed to be in life. So why do we focus on the people who do not show up and think that there's something wrong with us because they didn't show up, instead of focusing on the people that do when, the things that do? I mean, I don't know why we do that, you know.

Speaker 1: 7:05

I don't have the big answer for that either, but I know it's so hard. I think it's a lifelong struggle, on and off, in different seasons, different chapters of life for many people, including myself. I think we all want to feel loved and seen and valued, and sometimes what we want we can't have for whatever reason, so we want it more. Sometimes I think it just plain hurts to be rejected, you know, and there is, though, such joy and power in focusing on what we do have, and I'm learning to take my own advice on this, because you know people's actions show you where their hearts are or aren't, and you have to be cautious of people whose actions don't match their words. It kind of boils down to not worth in your value, and you know we only have this limited amount of energy and time. It's not something that's just in abundance, and you really have to sit down and think who is worth that and then go toward them, gravitate toward them, as long as it's mutual, you know.

Speaker 2: 8:14

Yeah, I really like that and I have spent, not these years of my life but in the past I've spent too much time thinking about the people that weren't around instead of the people that were, and you know, that can really keep us from being able to appreciate what we have. But you know, I have spent too much time thinking that there was something wrong with me because of those people I really did believe I did something when I probably really didn't, and I think that sometimes we make it too much about us. It really isn't about us at all.

Speaker 1: 8:50

That's been a struggle for me too. Something I've wanted the answer to is how do you not take things so personally when they feel personal? And I've really been trying to focus on that and what you just said. You know it's not always us that is to blame, you know, but then you go back, then you could go back to. Well, they say it takes two. I mean, there's just the back and forth, back and forth, you know, battle in your mind sometimes. But what it boils down to, I think, is really knowing who you are and trusting that.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Yeah, you know, going back to this podcast, it was just so profound. One of my favorite things that they talked about well, there was two. First, it was a train analogy, which we'll talk about later, but the one thing that really hit me, that really resonated with me, was this play analogy and my friend Shardé Young, who we talked about this in the podcast. She mentioned this and I thought it was so cool. But Dr Donna talked about this in the podcast. She mentioned this and I thought it was so cool, but Dr Donna talked about it in a lot more detail.

Speaker 2: 9:50

And, dr Donna, I'm going to so picture yourself, picture your life as a play and we're the ones casting the people.

Speaker 2: 9:59

We cast the villains and the friends, and you know I was thinking family, but a lot of people we don't cast because they're in our family already. But we are casting who we choose to be in our life or not. And they get a script and at the end of the play, which is our death, you know, dr Donna said that they take their mask off and they ask if they played their part the way they were supposed to. This was the part that got me the most, because she said they did their job, even if they hurt us, because that was the part that they were cast for. Because that was the part that they were cast for, and there was a lesson in all those things that they did along the way. So I'll tell you, I mean, this made me look at this with a completely different perspective and it gave me more responsibility in the parts that people played in my life. I think this is a tough one.

Speaker 1: 10:53

They did their job, even if they hurt us, because that was what we cast them to do. There's a lot of truth, I'm sure, to that. But if you go back to family, you don't get to pick your family. I certainly think that you get to pick what maybe some have done wrong to you. I guess what I'm saying is I can't fully get on board with that because I don't always think we had a part. I mean, if your mom is your mom, your dad is your dad. Right, you did not pick them.

Speaker 2: 11:29

What I thought about this was the older you get, the more responsibility you have to the people that you cast. Also, you know if you've had trauma in your life or the more healing that you've had along the way, the more ability that you've had to be able to make those choices in who is in your life and who isn't, Because even when I was in my 20s, I really believed that I did not have the ability to make the right choices at that time in my life because of the trauma that I had had before that. So I think it comes with time and maturity and healing and through the years, as you grow, I think you become more and more responsible for who you cast and we are more responsible at that point and we are the director of our play when we think about it. And do we want to be the director of our play or do we want somebody else to be the director of our play?

Speaker 1: 12:26

Yeah, it really is a good question, certainly gives a lot to think about and I guess one of the most recent things that happened about a year ago I had an old friend reach out to me and apologize for ending our friendship 18 years ago. Oh my, and it was so nice to get that apology. I hadn't thought much of it. I mean I really hadn't. I try to look at it as I treasured the chapter that we had together back in high school and in college and then life took its turn and, yeah, she was pretty crummy, I'm not going to lie about it, you know, blamed me for ending a friendship, but it was really her.

Speaker 1: 13:05

So getting that apology was really nice and funny story about it is just two weeks ago I ended up running into her for the very first time in person since college at a baseball game, at a tournament, and it was fine. She told me of so many fun memories together when we were younger and she'd actually asked if we could get together and do coffee and I said no, thank you, but I just don't have the time. It was nothing for what happened before, but it kind of is speaking to what you say. I don't know who she is now, I'm sure, changed, more wonderful, different in a lot of ways. But you only have a certain amount of time and energy, not in the cards right now. So I appreciate the apology, but I'm not going to be able to squeeze in trying to mend or restart a new friendship. So you're right. In that case I had the opportunity and I did and I felt very confident and comfortable. She understood saying thank you, that's, that's really kind. But you know what? This just isn't the season for it.

Speaker 2: 14:07

So you decided not to cast her in your life right now. That's really interesting. That was an actual choice. It makes it such a visual when I'm looking at my life as a play and.

Speaker 2: 14:18

I'm making the decision. I'm making the decision to say no because there is somebody in my life right now that I am purposefully keeping at a distance and I think it is the right decision for myself and my family and, even if it hurts, I think that sometimes we just have to do that. This was interesting. My son said to me and he's only seven years old he said to me Mama, if you want people to be who they want to be when they're an adult, you have to let them be who they want to be as a kid. And I thought that that was so brilliant. You know from the mouths of babes. I thought that that was so brilliant, you know from the mouths of babes.

Speaker 2: 14:55

And I looked back at his words and I think because you know, I was so controlled as a kid that I became that person who was so controlled as a young adult. I allowed others to dictate my play. You know my life, the characters in my play who played those parts, but honestly, if I would have learned a lot younger that I was the one casting those people and what their roles were, and that I had the ability to direct their behaviors or kick them out of my play, you know? I mean, I wish I could have learned that younger.

Speaker 1: 15:29

That's so good. I also think that's hard to do when you're younger because there's a lot more pressure. I think that you feel you know either to fit in or to maybe not hurt someone's feelings. I feel like the older you get, you're like listen, these are my people, and it's not that I can't be nice, and it's not that we can't chit chat, but I can't let you into that inner circle.

Speaker 2: 15:50

And I oftentimes think of that bullseye. You know, when I was in college and they had that bullseye, where the people are the closest to you, are in the inner circle, and they go out further and further and further. And there's nothing wrong with having people move further out. You know, another nugget that Dr Donna said was when a relationship ends, do you come out of it wounded or wiser? Do you come out of it wounded or wiser? And if you continue to cry over what happened or you continue to live in it, how long are you going to decide to be wounded?

Speaker 2: 16:24

I mean it was like oh wow. I mean I spent so many freaking years living as a wounded bird, like woe is me, and I can't find the ability to be strong and just be that punching bag or not, be that punching bag, that person or that bullseye on my back. And you know it was a choice that I did have a choice in it when there was. I want to go back to what you said, tina. There was choice in it, but I also think that there wasn't choice in it because it depended on how healthy I was at the time, and at that time I just wasn't healthy at all. I guess it is when you realize that you have a choice. I think that that's I mean, I think that that's so profound.

Speaker 1: 17:10

So, yes, I think, realizing that you have a say, you have a choice, and I also, though, think that there's a time for both to be wounded and come out wiser. Okay, we'll say you're ending a friendship or a serious relationship. I mean, yeah, it's going to hurt because you've invested all this time and energy and you love this other person, but, for whatever reason, it's not going to work out. Yeah, you're going to feel wounded. Or, if someone does something to you, you know, it's just one sided yeah, you're going to feel wounded, but then, once your heart is able to because I think your heart has to be where it has to be for a certain amount of time I'm not saying you stay wounded your whole life, I'm not saying that but I'm saying that you give yourself time to feel wounded and then you give yourself time to heal and learn from it. So, for example, when certain things have happened in my life, I have, as I've grown older and wiser, I have started just asking myself instead of, like you know, praying that the pain will go away or anything like that, or even asking why. I mean it's pointless to me, because we rarely know. I mean, yeah, I still have some why questions, but I don't know, maybe I tuck them away. But I ask what am I supposed to learn from this? And my hope is that, know, maybe I tuck them away, but I ask what am I supposed to learn from this? And my hope is that I learn what I'm supposed to.

Speaker 1: 18:40

So when we I don't know if I've shared this nugget before. Half of it, yes, but when we had a stillborn baby in 2018, I was never angry with God or anything like that I was really like I was super sad for about three weeks and then I realized I really had to pick myself up, because the longer I stayed, the harder it would be to get out, but I also wouldn't trade what I learned through that painful experience. So that's just kind of what we're talking about here. Was I wounded? Yeah, but did I also come out wiser? Yes, I did, and so you wouldn't want the first thing to happen again, to cause the wound, yet you don't want to give up what you learned and gained in wisdom because of it.

Speaker 2: 19:27

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, I agree with you, and I think that there are times and seasons for each of those. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being that wounded person for a period of time. Now, my mistake was that I lived in it for way too long and I don't even know if it was a choice, honestly, and I've asked myself that, you know. I mean, I think it depends on the trauma, the healing that you've been able to do, or re-victimization along the way. I mean, if it's happened multiple times and you get to the point where you feel like you can't even go in any direction because you just feel like every direction you go in, there's pain. So I mean, even going through when there's something like that, I think is really difficult. There's been times where I've been mad at myself for staying in it for as long as I did, but then, now that I've come out of it further, sometimes I think that we're in it for longer, because I think that there are still things that we have to learn. You know, yeah, I can, we're not ready to be, to get to the wise part yet, right? I think there's a time and place.

Speaker 2: 20:55

About with the play. This, too, was just so profound to me. I loved the visual of okay, she starts out with five cars.

Speaker 1: 21:08

So yeah, there are five cars and first you have to go through all the cars to see where you want to live you have to go through all the cars to see where you want to live.

Speaker 2: 21:18

You know, I look back at all the stages of my life, of all the places that I've lived and, interestingly, my daughter and I are filling out a journal right now together. It's a mother-daughter journal. She has it on one side and I have it on the other, and one of the questions was how many times have you moved? And so we counted hers and we counted mine, which was way more than I realized. And each place I thought about, you know, and it gave me a feeling of where I was in that time of my life and I could tell you if I had to walk through all the cars. If I had to walk through all the cars, I would like the one that I'm in right now, just right now, walking through each of the houses that I walked through to get where I am. I'm good, I like where I am right now.

Speaker 1: 22:09

I love that, I do. I like where I am right now too. I mean, it's bittersweet at times because time just like a train can go really fast and time seems to be just at work speed right now. So that's just. The only struggle I'm having right now is I really want to hold on to where my kids are and where life is and just have a pause button, but we don't get that. You know is and just have a pause button, but we don't get that.

Speaker 1: 22:37

So I know that Dr Donna described each car and the very last one is the caboose, and that is where you are just looking back on your past. But what I wanted to add here was not about Dr Donna, but I just went and saw the movie, if recently. It's a children's movie, if you will not like a three-year-old movie, but maybe middle school age, the little girl, and it is 12. This kind of put what we were talking about in perspective. First I thought it was a great movie.

Speaker 1: 23:13

I love Ryan Reynolds, I think he's really great and it was just such a sweet movie. But there was a line in it and I'm going to grab my phone because I wrote it down to make sure that I'm reading it correctly, so this is from the movie. If Nothing you Love Can Ever Be Forgotten, memories live on forever, and that's in my tracks. I started bawling my eyes out and got me thinking about this last train car and I truly believe that life goes so fast for all of us and if we don't slow down and stop and look back.

Speaker 1: 24:02

Quite often we are going to forget some of the things that we want to remember so much with early onset Alzheimer's and we are probably in the late stage of it right now that I can barely remember what she was like before this disease just ravaged us.

Speaker 1: 24:22

So pictures are one way to kind of stop and take a look and literally just taking time, quiet time somewhere, wherever that is, I think is so important, and I'm going to start doing that, because just every day just keeps going by, going by, going by, and before you know it, the weeks add up to months, add up to years and you can't remember some of the things that you want to, and so that's why, when we talked about this caboose and the train ride and then I saw that movie, it just felt like it all tied back together.

Speaker 1: 24:56

I don't think necessarily that just waiting until we're at that caboose is the only time to look back at our past. I'm not saying you have to live there and put yourself back through it over and over again. I just feel like it might be good in certain situations to look at where you came from or look at how you grew, or go back and watch the movies that you made of your kids or look at the photos that just bring you back to a time that was happy, different, just something that you might have forgot about, that you did. Do you know what I mean? That's kind of where my mind went when I was thinking about this train scenario.

Speaker 2: 25:39

It's hard for me to look at the past, even the good memories, because it just brings a loss to me. I mean I laugh and I love it and I have so much fun being able to look at my kids as little kids and things like that, but it also makes me realize you know how much older they are and where this is heading.

Speaker 1: 26:06

Yeah, no, it's true, but you know you want to talk about another great train scenario was in the series this Is Us. Well, when I say great, you know you want to talk about another great train scenario was in the series this is us. Well, when I say great, I mean it's what I'm living right now. So if I get a little bit teared up about it, that's why it's. You know, if you. It took me months to be able to watch the final season of this Is Us, because I knew what was going to happen. Final season of this Is Us. Because I knew what was going to happen. I knew that Rebecca had a memory issue and I knew that it would have progressed in that and I knew that she was going to pass away and they so heartbreakingly beautifully took her on a train ride and it went through all of those cars and all of those seasons.

Speaker 1: 26:57

And she got to the caboose and you know, you knew that this was the end, you know this is how it was going to be and that was such just a beautiful illustration of life and what we're talking about, and all of the hard things with all of the beauty mixed in. And then, when you know that time is here, it really was a beautiful, beautiful way to show such pain and beauty all at the same time. It just illustrated it perfectly.

Speaker 2: 27:31

Well, I really am sorry that you're going through this with your mom.

Speaker 2: 27:35

I mean, your mom is such a beautiful person and I hate what Alzheimer's does and she's also so young, so I mean, I just I am just so sorry. I'm glad, though, that something like that train is where we kind of visit our issues, our abandonment issues, our trauma or whatever baggage that we're carrying around, and this is where we can kind of decide what or when or how we're ready to leave those issues behind, like if we're going to pick some of them up and continue to take them with us into the next cars. And you know, I think that we do. You know, like we talked about earlier, I think that there's seasons. I think that we visit certain cars at certain times in our lives. I think that we revisit. I think sometimes we pick up a certain baggage and we carry it with us, and sometimes and sometime, we're ready to let that baggage go, and I think that some of it has to do with the healing and what we need and when we don't need it anymore.

Speaker 1: 29:06

Yeah, I think you're so right and it's so funny to me why and I've done this too why will I continually pick the baggage up? You know, if you think about the experience, the more you carry, the harder it is. You know, let it go. I'm still learning how to do that. I know it's hard, it's a lot easier said than done, but it really is healthy and beneficial when you do it.

Speaker 2: 29:30

You know I kicked myself so many times because I picked something back up again. I mean, I have a friend right now that it's like it's just so sad and my heart goes out to her and my phone is open to her anytime she wants to contact me again. We were the best of friends for years and years and we kind of knew each other out there, you know. And she's back out again doing some choices that she shouldn't be doing, unfortunately. And she accidentally called me, didn't mean to call me, she meant to call another Ann, but she got me and I think it was a God thing. But she got me, and I think it was a God thing, and she just started talking about her relapse and how she's just a mess and then she just said ugh, and then she hung up.

Speaker 2: 30:22

I keep texting her. I love you, I love you. I'm here, you know, and I think that there's just not going to that much of an extreme. But I think that there's times in our life that we just go back and we revisit certain things. And maybe, you know, there was something in her life that just wasn't resolved I'm not really sure why she went back out, back out to that point in her life and we kick ourselves and it doesn't do any good to really do that?

Speaker 1: 30:57

I don't think. Oh it's. You know, an addiction is such a constant battle every day, much like I feel, like my anxiety is too. But you know, you like I just go back to. We only have so much energy and time and it's so important to just make the healthiest choices as soon as you can, you know, and start building those healthy habits.

Speaker 2: 31:21

Remember, you can listen to us anywhere you get your podcasts. You can go to realtalktinaanncom and you can listen to all of them they're actually really good and you can also go to our Facebook page and message us and we will get back to you. You can listen to us every Sunday morning at 11 am on wdjyfmcom out of Atlanta and online, and you can listen to Denver's radio station 92.9 to 89.3. You can listen online at denveropenmediaorg and you can watch us on San Francisco's Pacifica Community Television, on Comcast Channel 26 and 27, and online at Pacific Coast TV. Thank you so much for listening and supporting us. We will see you next week for part two.