350: AGM To GM Succession Planning w/ Jay Johnson, CCM

Elevate your leadership game as Jay Johnson, the  General Manager of Southern Hills Country Club, joins us to unwrap the complexity of career advancement in private club management. 
With a candid look at his own pathway to success, Jay elaborates on making strategic career moves, the significance of mentorship, and the pivotal decisions that can shape a promising future. 

Discover the hidden dynamics of succession planning that occur against the backdrop of retiring general managers at esteemed clubs. Aspiring AGMs and new club managers will find a treasure trove of advice here, from navigating the subtleties of taking over from a respected predecessor to achieving harmonious transitions that respect tradition and foster team growth.

For those poised on the cusp of leadership, the final part opens the role of the AGM, debunking common misconceptions and highlighting the critical soft skills that underpin effective management. Embrace the roadmap from top performer to visionary leader, learning how to immerse in an existing culture, initiate organic change, and harvest the profound knowledge imparted by industry veterans. Tune in and arm yourself with invaluable insights that will guide your personal and professional development in the dynamic sphere of club management.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Club managers, as you're kind of going through your career, you definitely, I think, need to make calculated risks and I think you really need to lean into your mentors and those who you really rely and trust on to help you navigate and make hard decisions. A lot of times people make hasty decisions or they jump because they're really attracted by a title or they're attracted by a few thousand dollars more here and there, without sort of a long-term vision about where they want to be, and sometimes you know it's certainly you see people that sort of have a tendency to jump around, and I get it. Circumstances and life changes and sometimes you take a job and it's not what you thought it was.

Speaker 2: 0:38

Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio, the industry source for news, trends, updates and conversations all around the world of private clubs and high-end hospitality. And when we say private clubs, we mean country clubs, city clubs, yacht clubs, golf clubs, athletic clubs, military clubs, all of the clubs. If you're new to the industry, welcome. If you're a part of the industry, welcome back. Thank you for being here. I'm your host, denny Corby.

Speaker 2: 1:06

In this episode I'm chatting with Jay Johnson, gm of Southern Hills Country Club in Tulsa, oklahoma, and he and I were chatting a few weeks ago, just catching up on things, and he mentioned he said a phrase and I was like this is a great episode. It's about the AGM to GM succession. What brought this up was I had a genuine question that I wanted to ask him, which was you know, he's worked very hard to get to a general manager position and I've seen this happen to other people and I've asked a few other people as well but what's it like having to go from a GM position to an AGM position? So taking a step back? And that's what led to the conversation a little bit, and he had a great response and it was all just about the AGM to GM succession plan. So in this instance it was when he was taking on the position at Southern Hills plan. So in this instance it was when he was taking on the position at Southern Hills. He was taking the place of a very well-established club manager in the club and the board wanted to make sure they were bringing in another strong general manager. But part of the process was they were going to take another existing good GM, bring them in, make them a GM to make sure that they get indoctrinated and cultured, ingrained into the club and to make sure that they are a really good fit.

Speaker 2: 2:31

One of my favorite quotes Jay mentioned to me and it was during our first conversation and I made him bring it up here which was the board told him you still have to work, you still have to earn the position. It's not guaranteed. So, even though he may, he took this big leap and we talk about calculated risks and being open to unexpected opportunities. Throughout the conversation Jay shares his experiences and building relationships and trust with his staff and members and, as well as you know, we get a little vulnerable and opens up to the challenges and kind of frustration sometimes. You know that was encountered along the way and if you are friends of Jay and at the time of this recording he is not a new dad yet, but he has a new kid on the way next week and so by the time of this recording, make sure you congrats Jay on his expanding family Two kids. Congrats Jay, all right. Private Club. Private Club I can't talk today. Private Club radio listeners. Please welcome Jay Johnson. So what's it like going from the Carolinas to Oklahoma?

Speaker 1: 3:42

Well, that's actually. That was a big change. Obviously, going from Raleigh, durham, chapel Hill, you know, consistently rated top 10 places to live in the US. But even before Oklahoma there was the two and a half year COVID stop in Kansas. So that was a big change, big transition. You know you sort of. You know You're climbing the ladder in your career and I was very fortunate that I was at two great clubs and within a 30-minute drive of each other.

Speaker 1: 4:11

So I spent the anchor part of my career learning the business at two great clubs with some great mentors.

Speaker 1: 4:25

Through that, you know the call is going to come and I've always told my peers and even those that I'm mentoring you never know when and where the call is going to come from, but you got to be ready whenever the call comes and be open to the idea that it may not be.

Speaker 1: 4:34

You know a location that you had envisioned and so kudos to my wife for being open-minded to saying hey, we're going to chase this dream, because we always knew that becoming the general manager at Prairie Dunes was a club that I hadn't anticipated at the time was on the radar, but once we looked into it we knew that that was truly going to set us where we wanted to be in the long run.

Speaker 1: 4:58

And so, yeah, that was a cultural shock. But we were also at the time in our lives where we had had our fun, if you will, and we knew it was time to start to settle down and start a family, and so the idea of doing that in a small town made a lot of sense to us and so we felt like it was a good family move. And it was Just six months after we got there is when COVID hit, and so wife had always thought, yeah, we'll, we'll make this move to the Midwest, knowing that the there's a main airport within 45 minutes and she can get back whenever and and have family come visit whenever. Well, that just didn't happen once the world shut down, so that created a whole different dynamic that we didn't anticipate going there. But she's a very strong person and we've been able to kind of navigate through a lot, so it was a change.

Speaker 2: 5:47

I think the last time we talked uh because we we chatted briefly about about this interview, it was uh a calculated risk yes, yeah, I think is what what you uh related it to?

Speaker 1: 5:58

you know I mean club managers as you're, you're kind of going through your career you definitely, I think, need to make calculated risks and I think you really need to lean into your mentors and those who you really rely and trust on to help you navigate and make hard decisions. A lot of times people make hasty decisions or they jump because they're really attracted by a title or they're attracted by a few thousand dollars more here and there, without sort of a long-term vision about where they want to be, and sometimes you know it's certainly you see people that sort of have a tendency to jump around and I get it. Circumstances and life changes and sometimes you take a job and it's not what you thought it was. So yeah, it was a calculated risk to go out with a long term vision. We had always anticipated that we were going to be in Hutchinson, kansas, from a five to ten year window. That was always the plan.

Speaker 1: 6:50

We were not looking whenever I got a phone call about an opportunity here at Southern Hills, but my wife's initial reaction was I don't know if I can say it, but it was no. The answer is no. If we're making a move from, from Prairie Dunes, we're going back to the Carolinas and I was able to at least give answers. Hey, listen, honey. I think it's at least a call that I should take and just explore and just find out more information.

Speaker 2: 7:18

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Speaker 2: 8:28

I think we were just chatting too and it turned into a topic for for a conversation here on the show. I think we were just like you know, shooting the breeze and just having like a fun conversation, and it was the phrase agm to to gm succession. Let me rephrase it it was the AGM to GM succession planning, correct? Can we dive into that a little bit? Because it started from. I bluntly asked you what sort of feeling going into because you went from GM to now AGM. Know, I don't see titles as like a big thing, but some people do so. Like I was just more interested like hey, did you see that as a demotion? And then what was kind of the game plan from there? And that's when we started talking about the uh, agm to gm succession plan and the clubs that have that in place. Can you chat on that for us?

Speaker 1: 9:25

Absolutely. I mean I feel the assistant GM title, the AGM title, has really grown a lot in our industry in about the last 10 years and there's a lot of the quote unquote old guard in the business who have been successful managers for a long period of time and you're seeing a trend of them needing to think of a retirement plan. And what does an exit strategy look like? And I think it's harder to conceptualize when you have a general manager that's very long tenured at an elite club like Southern Hills, because of the fact that there's so much institutional knowledge and relationships that he's forged both locally and nationally, both in the city of Tulsa and the leadership that helps run the state, but also beyond the walls of even the state and the PGA of America and the USGA and the years in history there. So, as the board starts wrapping their head around, what does retirement look like for Nick? It definitely centered around. We would like to get somebody in here that could train and really learn who we are, because the culture here at Southern Hills is very member focused, very staff focused, and Nick has done an exceptional job leading a club at a very high level and, furthermore, establishing a staff culture and the department heads that we hear that we have here at the club. I would put up against anybody, and every club is probably partial to their own, but we have exceptionally talented leaders here at this club that have done so and established a certain way of doing things, and so there's options available to the board. Can they let Nick just enjoy his last few years and retire, then hire somebody else in? That was certainly an option, but they found a lot more value of trying to preserve that culture as best as possible by bringing somebody in for a period of about a year and a half to work under Nick, and the goal of that was truly to allow me to form relationships and trust not only with the staff but also with the governance and with the membership.

Speaker 1: 11:29

So, kind of going back to your original question, I had worked my way up my career to be an assistant GM at Governor's Club and had loved my time there, learned immensely, but I was working my way up because I was ready to take that GM jump, and so therefore, when I took the job at Prairie Dunes, I felt like, all right, I'm kind of out of the weeds, if you will, of needing to kind of get over the hump and become a general manager, because when you go from assistant GM to GM you almost take on this mindset of I want to prove to the hiring committee that they made the right decision.

Speaker 1: 12:01

I want to make them proud that they took a risk on me because I didn't have GM experience and everyone needs to make that jump at some point and typically you do it at a smaller club because it's harder for these larger clubs to really wrap their brain around giving somebody an opportunity who doesn't have the experience that they need.

Speaker 1: 12:18

So by me going to Prairie Dunes, that equipped me with an experience level that was attractive to the search committee here. And when they started to conceptualize Nick's replacement, they did not want to entertain somebody who did not have previous GM experience. So that was very clear of their approach and their search process and they hired club council to do this, and so their directive to club council was we only want to interview current general managers. So you think about that. What they're saying is we're not even going to look at an AGM to take on a lateral move. We only want GMs who have demonstrated the ability to do it at a high level and that will be willing to take a step back with the opportunity potentially to follow in next place.

Speaker 2: 13:10

And didn't you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think didn't the board tell you that? You know, they like you, they want you to win, they want you to succeed, but you have to earn it. They're not just going to give it to you. So just the fact of you being there, it was like, hey, like you to succeed, but you have to earn it. They're not just going to give it to you. So just the fact of you being there, it was like, hey, you're here, but you still have to earn it. Or still not just going to give it to you. You still have to really put in the work to do what has to be done.

Speaker 1: 13:31

Yeah, I draw a lot of sports analogies when I think about leadership out of a club and players want to play. Players want the ball in their hand when the game's on the line. And for me to be given the opportunity to say honestly, I respected that from the board when I interviewed here. I knew that when I made it to the final two I knew I was only one of two and I respected the fact that they were not going to put all their eggs and guarantee somebody Nick's replacement whenever they only get to know me for basically 24 hours and because that's rather presumptuous to say yeah, we just met this guy in the interview process and the future of the club is in your hands. So I totally understood it. I certainly asked for an opportunity to be considered, but they were very clear that, respectfully, they were not going to guarantee that in the interview and I understood that. So whenever I accepted the job I knew that I was kind of in that proven mentality and kind of the same mentality whenever I took the job at Prairie Dunes. I wanted to prove to that committee. I wanted to make that club proud that they took a risk on me and I took that same mindset here at Southern Hills where I wanted to prove it to them and I knew what the task was at hand.

Speaker 1: 14:47

I started in April of 22, and then we had the PGA Championship in May. So you sort of hit the ground running and there was no option of easing into it. And there was some transition going on as well with other departments that were retiring. So here at Southern Hills there really has been kind of this changing of the guard culture that's happened where we've had several department heads that have been here for 20 plus years. We've had four of those retire in the last basically year and a half between our executive assistant and membership director, our CFO retired, our clubhouse manager and Nick, and all of those were at least 25 years tenure here.

Speaker 1: 15:27

And so you start going through that and there's some nervousness amongst the membership. What does the future look like? And that's totally natural. So I think you need to fully embrace that and know that and my job is truly to try and give them a sense of ease and comfort, of sending a message that they're going to continue to enjoy the traditions that they've come to enjoy Seven Hills seamlessly, while also embracing some new ideas of how we're going to tweak things moving forward. So yeah, it certainly was a trying time, from going from GM to AGM, sorry, from AGM to GM, back to AGM. It was a calculated risk. We knew it was one worth trying, though.

Speaker 2: 16:07

So yeah, and that's neat that the club wanted a GM to bring them in. It's nice knowing that they had that, which had to make you feel a little that's what I'm looking for. I don't wanna say maybe like relaxed or calm or at ease, because you know they're not just looking for somebody else either, like they're looking for the right person.

Speaker 1: 16:30

so the fact that they're kind of having their, their due diligence and their kind of rules and things must, I would you know, I would think, from from your point of view, be a little calming you know, one thing I quickly came to appreciate and I kind of picked up on this a little bit in the interview process is an appreciation for the governance of Southern Hills and how they've run the club over the years. You know these clubs that operate at a high level, that are really highly regarded as operating at a high level, that have high demand and obviously a rich history of tradition. That doesn't happen by accident, and the more that you ingrain yourself in the culture, you really gain an appreciation for the vision and the leadership that's really executed at these clubs, and that isn't always just solely on the GM's shoulders. A lot of that also is preserved by the Board of Governors here, and this club truly does not make impulsive decisions. We never take on a project or anything that's going to compromise us and our cash position, and so I've really gained an appreciation for the forethought and how much stock goes in and the intentionality of which they make decisions here. And so you know it certainly is a. It was a trying time, but at the same time it was a challenge that I was gladly embraced and and to be honest with you, there's also embedded in all this is the personal side of this, you know, having my wife take leave Raleigh-Durham Chapel Hill to go to Hutchinson.

Speaker 1: 18:00

And then, once she visited Tulsa the day that I interviewed here, I met my Kirk Reese at 7 am for breakfast and I did not see my wife again until about 6 pm and during that day Nick had organized kind of a tour of the city with a realtor, and it was a young lady that was of similar age that we were, and so my wife connected with her and they just chatted about what it's like to live in Tulsa.

Speaker 1: 18:26

This is where the school districts are, these are where the parks are and so on. And when I saw her at 6 pm I could see it in her face and her entire demeanor, like she could see a future here in Tulsa and, to be honest with you, we absolutely love it here. The city has it's, I think, geographically and I grew up in the Southeast, so geographically I think it's people that are in Southeast think of Tulsa as Midwest, but culturally it's very much. It's got a lot of Southern roots and it's got a great food scene here. There's a lot of shows that come through here. It's a great city to raise your kids and my wife has since joined the Chamber of Commerce and she loves her job and she's really gotten plugged in.

Speaker 2: 19:05

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Speaker 2: 19:37

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Speaker 1: 20:26

Yeah, and part of that was also kind of a selfish ask, because I was asking her what is she going to do throughout the day?

Speaker 1: 20:32

And and I expressed to Nick her concern with Tulsa. And if you don't, if you never visited Tulsa, you probably have some preconceived notions, and so I think it was important to me. I had been to Tulsa prior to that interview a handful of times through a club manager's events and I had played the course. I was familiar and I knew how special this place was. I knew that it was my goal to at least get Hannah here to see Tulsa and see the club and then we can make an informed decision. But at least that would give her all the information of what it's like to live. So Nick was the one that kind of spearheaded that whole, facilitating that, and it was very beneficial because you're moving your family and I genuinely saw this as an opportunity to give Hannah a better opportunity for success as far as her career, as well as our daughter, to give her an opportunity for success and her growth and development.

Speaker 2: 21:27

That's really cool. No, that's that's. That's a neat move Because they could have did anything like they could have just, you know, send her a spa day, or they could have did so many other things. That's such a good power move. I really liked that. What's what's been some of the challenges you know with the AGM to GM succession plan. What's been some of the uphill battles, some of the frustration, some of the things that kind of knock your head against the wall a little bit.

Speaker 1: 21:54

You know, this was a little bit of a unique scenario because I knew Nick personally prior to getting the call about this job, and I knew him from a couple of golf trips that we had taken together, and so I'd gotten to know him on a personal level. In fact, ironically, prairie Dunes, when they were going through their general manager search in 2019, they called Nick and they said, hey, we're looking for a GM, this is the kind of the profile, these are the skill sets that we're looking to identify, and Nick gave them my name as somebody to consider. And then Nick called me and said hey, I don't know where you're at in your career if you're looking, but you might get a call from Prairie Dunes. And so I had known him for probably five, six years prior to coming out to the Midwest and so coming to Southern Hills. You got to be careful because you don't want to lean into this friendship, because you're here to do a job. You're here to learn, so you don't want to get too comfortable. You truly understand the task at hand and the board was very clear, and so was Nick. Nick was extremely honest with me the entire time. He was honest with me about what I was doing well, the feedback that he was getting about things that I needed to do better, and I was very lucky that I felt like I had that transparency.

Speaker 1: 23:08

And, yes, is there some ego involved whenever you are the GM and you know that you've run a successful platinum club, that's a world renowned golf destination, and then now you're kind of taking a backseat, if you will? Yeah, there certainly is. I mean, you got to understand that it's just not your time and even if Nick and I would have disagreements and there weren't many but ultimately I wanted to respect the man who he was and the career that he built, as well as his image and his exit plan too, because he needed to enjoy his last couple of years here and I wanted to honor that and I wanted to honor the fact that this was his club. So I really didn't challenge him, um, if he made a call that that maybe I, even in my own mind, might've not fully agreed with. I didn't challenge really to anybody, um, cause I wanted to respect that process. So that was difficult, um, knowing, knowing that that it's still his club and you still want to respect him as a leader and what he's established here. So other challenges is you know there are a lot of traditions and history established here and you want to. You want to truly respect those two, and so a lot of it is.

Speaker 1: 24:18

Members knew that I was here as AGM. It was out amongst the membership that I was the hopeful successor to Nick, but that wasn't confirmed until a year later. So I was very aware that, what the opportunity was at hand and that I needed to prove it, if you will. So it was really learning and establishing yourself. But also, you don't want to become across as the new guy that says, hey, you know, this is my club. Now you really need to take that velvet, glove approach because you genuinely like my. My biggest task was relationship building and trust building and you really you really need to approach that in a way that I feel is collaborative and people feel like they're heard and they're respected. And so there there, there had been times where I probably came across maybe a little too aggressive and I was thankful for the fact that Nick had pulled me aside and said, hey, you know, and kind of coached me through some of that, and that was very, very helpful.

Speaker 2: 25:14

Can you go into that a little bit more? How do you think you were a little aggressive and how? What was the situation and how do you think, looking back on it, you could have handled it a little bit better?

Speaker 1: 25:24

Yeah, sure. So I mean there are certainly times and opportunities when I felt like the staff needed a stronger leader to really hold them accountable and really set a level of expectation that we have for how we operate and we're not fully planning ahead. Then I felt like it was my responsibility to kind of help show them, you know, what's expected to operate at a high level and you know when we come time for the slower times of the year, which here at Southern Hills there's really probably about 30 days when it's kind of well, probably about 60 days when it slows down a little bit in January, february, but then once March hits it really doesn't slow down until New Year's. And so you know, there was just opportunities where I felt like we needed to to make advancements and plan ahead and revamp certain things and and really just help hold people accountable. And, and also, you know, I really wanted to get to know the staff what their interests were, what are their career objectives, what are we doing to make steps towards that, and and really help establish and help coach and mentor them, because I felt that from a clubhouse experience standpoint, they really needed that strong leader presence.

Speaker 1: 26:32

And so every now and then people don't respond to that as the way that you may have experienced in the past, and so sometimes you might need to wrap your arm around the shoulder and make sure they understand you have their best interest at heart and it's not from a selfish standpoint, it's really trying to help them personally and professionally. That's really always been my style. I want people to work at my clubs. I believe in my team, but if there ever comes a time where, where, where maybe their priorities have changed, then I want to help them onto the next step and I hope that it's here. But if it's not here, that that's okay and people need to understand it's okay to talk about that too.

Speaker 2: 27:06

So having a ton of staff buy-in in there was what I'm looking for. Just just just just having buy-in, just buy-in. I think that's just the other common theme I've just gotten from you. The talk is having buy-in not just from your staff, but also your spouse and the people around you, just, and it's the same thing. Now, like now that you mentioned the sports and coaching, that's just where, like, my head wants to go now is like sports analogies, but yeah, well, you gotta think.

Speaker 1: 27:34

I mean, the majority of our staff here is long tenured staff, so they've worked with Nick and know how he operates and how decisive he is, and it was really my job in that succession phase, that year and a half phase, where they're also looking at how I make decisions, how I establish those and what are my kind of absolutes and what are my non-negotiables.

Speaker 1: 27:56

We all have them, and so you're not only trying to operate the club at a high level, but you're also trying to establish hey, this is who I am, this is how I operate, and I always try to incorporate empathy and sort of the human element side of how we manage.

Speaker 1: 28:12

And you've got to understand that, in the middle of all that, we just came out of a PGA championship in 2022. The world is changing right in front of our eyes as far as the prioritization of what's important to employees, what's important to managers, and so we were kind of navigating through that collaboratively though, because we were reestablishing what a staffing models look like and how are we supporting our staff's desires, and so it was really good to be part of that, because you know how I mean how you're compensating your employees that was changing rapidly how you are scheduling their hours and what your expectations of their other hour commitment. That was changing rapidly, and so I felt like we were trying to stay ahead of that, and I think we did a good job of that. So, yeah, it also allowed me to as we're establishing, you know, process and procedure, have my hands wrapped up in the middle of all that, so that was nice to be a part of.

Speaker 2: 29:11

What advice do you have? Anybody looking to get into an AGM position?

Speaker 1: 29:16

You know it's certainly humbling. It was harder than what I thought it was going to be, if I'm being perfectly honest, because I thought it would be a little bit quote unquote easier, just because I knew Nick. But that doesn't change the fact that it's still a big club. It's still a big operation. There's still a lot going on. And whenever you work at a club of this status that operates at a high level for a number of years, that they have, I kind of thought, well, this will be easy. You know, I know Nick will. I'll work on it for a year and a half and then I'll transition right in. And the reality is that he's operating at a high level. But a lot of times, just like the sports world, the pros make it look easy, they make it look seamless, and then you get into the weeds and you're like, wow, the game of golf is is. Uh, it's not as easy as the pros make it make it look on TV, you know.

Speaker 2: 30:12

And so, um, those, yeah, what about somebody getting into their first management style position? So just go so their first time, even as like a assistant general manager, like, what about just like that first style or that first step into management, what, what advice do you have for maybe a little bit lower level?

Speaker 1: 30:27

So it certainly is club management. If I look back on my career, one thing I wish somebody would have told me at a younger age is that you really get down to people management, whether you're managing your staff or you're managing members. A lot of times people in this industry are promoted into management because either A they went to school for it or B they were the highest performer in their department and then they get promoted into a leadership position and then but there's really a lot of times, at least, especially in today's day and age people are looking for a lot of responsibility. They're kind of chasing titles versus chasing the substance and the experience level that are really going to make you successful once you get that role.

Speaker 1: 31:10

So any new club manager getting into the business, I would say ask a lot of questions, be patient, make smart decisions, don't make impulsive decisions. Hopefully you can identify a mentor that will truly help coach you along. Hopefully you can identify a mentor that will truly help coach you along. And I would say don't be too busy, because I see it often happen where people they really want the title before they're ready for the position and that experience level truly benefits you as you start interacting and dealing with difficult member situations, difficult scenarios that maybe you're not equipped until you have the experience of navigating through it. So just be patient and attach yourself to a mentor if you can. You've got to immerse yourself in what the culture of the club is. You can't feel like it's your job to take that on. And also you've got to make your mark, make your presence. You really got to take a sit, take a seat back and say how do they operate? How, how can I enhance this? And don't feel like you got to make your mark in the first year.

Speaker 2: 32:14

So no, yeah, no, that's, that's, that's has to be tough too, because you're the ego comes into play so much because it wants to show value. It wants to show, hey, I'm the best guy for the or person, I'm the best person for this. You know position, but at the same time you still you know you have to. You do have to learn. Take us, yeah. Oh my goodness, there's so much involved yeah, there really is, and what's involved.

Speaker 1: 32:35

More is just from a mental capacity, like you need to truly um, I think be very self-aware about what's going on, what your, your role is, where you're at in this moment in time, not trying to establish or accomplish too much, because it certainly comes across as you're trying to make your mark.

Speaker 1: 32:50

You're trying too hard when really what you need to do is learn the culture, learn the club, how you can best support it, and it takes you a little while to do that and it takes a little while for the members to truly understand you and what your intentions and your desires are. You've got to kind of navigate through that all. While doing that, you still have a legend that's still in the building and it's still his club, and so, and then the advice that the board gave me in the first six months of being GM here was don't feel like you've got to make your mark, and we had an internal conversation of no major changes in 2024. Yes, we're going to tweak things that need to be tweaked, but we're not going to establish a new program, a new way of operating in the first year, because the membership I don't think can handle that type of change, given the season that we're in.

Speaker 2: 33:38

See, that has to make it so much easier. When the, I was going to say the, the, the expectations there, and and you just answered my, my, my question, which was going to be, you know, pretty much assuming the board had said something, involved in the fact that they had to say that to you hey, for six months, just take it all in. That has to be so. Take, take such a weight off your shoulders in terms of ego and everything just to go. Oh, thank thank goodness, I can just take it all in. There's no expectations of. You know, obviously it's performing, you know they want to see it in person and doing things, but there's no real set Like hey, we want a complete turnaround and change.

Speaker 1: 34:14

Yeah, and they're. They're not naive naive enough to think that. And the reality is is that I've always said that a change will happen organically and you shouldn't have to force the change. And if you have to force it, then maybe it's not the right change. So allow that to happen naturally and organically.

Speaker 1: 34:27

And and I'll never forget the first board meeting I had in January of this year, when I walked away from the board meeting I got several handshakes and said, hey, we could, we could see the benefit of the succession plan with how you ran that board meeting this morning. And that affirmation was very reassuring and comforting because I genuinely felt like the succession plan had benefited and it paid off, because my sense of comfort and how I wanted to operate and confidence really came across pretty natural and that nothing was forced. So there's definitely a sense of ease and stepping into that role versus a turnkey situation. And now I'm trying to figure out where the light switches are At situation. And now I'm trying to figure out where the light switches are. At the same time, I'm trying to figure out what everyone's name is. You know, and, and, and establish myself. So it definitely helps in this scenario when you're following a long tinger GM to kind of have that succession process.

Speaker 2: 35:18

And to have such a open-minded, welcoming and engaged board, it sounds like also, which is very, very good. You don't get that a lot.

Speaker 1: 35:31

You genuinely don't. And get me, every club is different, right, and there are so many clubs out there that identify a great GM or a great candidate for a position, but maybe that candidate's personality traits and how they like to manage, what they value, doesn't align with the club. I've seen it happen many times where you have a great club manager but maybe he's not the best fit for that club and that club culture, and so I think the two need to mesh. And that's part of what the interview process is is hey, is this person going to fit into our club culture and do they understand that?

Speaker 1: 36:00

So it's a challenge, but I think being humble and staying humble and being self-aware and relying on your mentors I, honestly, one of my biggest things that Nick would mentor me on was was was Jay, you don't need to do everything yourself. You need to trust your managers that they're high operators. The high level operators trust them to do the job and just support them, versus feeling like they're not expecting you to come in with an idea. They want you to support their ideas, and so he, nick, was extremely influential in this entire thing, helping coach me through through this, so I'm very lucky in that regard.

Speaker 2: 36:37

Sir, thank you so much for being on. I appreciate this. You're a gentleman and a scholar.

Speaker 1: 36:42

Thank you, Danny.

Speaker 2: 36:44

Hope you all enjoyed that episode. Thank you so much for coming on, jay, and sharing and opening up, and once again, congrats on the new addition to your family Two kids amazing accomplishment. If you have not done so already, like share, subscribe. You can sign up for our newsletter, which we send you. All the content that we release on the channel, all the episodes, as well as some other goodies. You can get that at privateclubradiocom. That's your episode. I'm your host, denny Corby. Catch you on the flippity flip.