Private Club Radio Show
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Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
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Private Club Radio Show
354: Embracing Adaptability & Elevating Hospitality w/ Josiah Mackenzie
Join me, Denny Corby, as I sit down with Josiah McKenzie, host of the Hospitality Daily Show podcast, to uncover the secrets of elevating hospitality through empathy, adaptability, and exceptional service. We discuss the critical need to reconnect with the core mission of hospitality and how listening to guests' evolving expectations can set businesses apart. From legacy hotel groups to innovative new ventures, learn how personalized service continues to be the differentiator in a competitive landscape.
We explore how hospitality aligns with the essentials of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, emphasizing the importance of solidifying the basics before introducing creative enhancements.
Emerging trends such as the rising value of in-person interactions and community-focused offerings in the age of AI are also examined, providing a comprehensive outlook on the future of hospitality and club management.
Finally, Josiah and I delve into the wisdom of hospitality literature and influential industry figures, including Danny Meyer's "Setting the Table" and Chip Conley's journey with Joie de Vivre Hotels. We highlight the powerful role of a multi-generational workforce and the importance of continuous learning in effective leadership. FThis episode is packed with valuable takeaways and practical advice for anyone looking to thrive in the ever-evolving world of hospitality. Tune in, share, and subscribe for a wealth of knowledge and inspiration.
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I've spent a lot of time looking at the impacts and opportunities and the second-order effects of artificial intelligence and I think, as our ability to process data gets faster and faster, we're going to become less valuable for just kind of what we can think or ideas that we have, and I think the intangibles that hospitality provides the opportunity to gather people together, make them feel good is only going to increase this year, next year, for decades to come, and so I think this is a actually a really good place to be. I think there are opportunities to think about what are offerings that could be provided that maybe push the bounds of how some clubs have kind of thought about their role in the neighborhoods and the communities that they operate within. Hey, everyone.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to Private Club Radio, the industry source for news, trends, updates and conversations all in the world of private clubs and high-end hospitality. I'm your host, denny Corby. Thanks for being here. This episode is a special one as I have on Josiah McKenzie, who is the host of the ever-popular Hospitality Daily Show podcast. Super excited to have him on. As we discuss the world of high-end hospitality, we go over stellar service, the impact of technology and trends shaping the entire industry as a whole. We talk about insights from industry leaders that he's chatted with on the importance of continuous learning and mentorship. Of my big key takeaways is how empathy and adaptability are really transforming the hospitality experience and industry as a whole. So, private Club Radio listeners, please welcome to the show. The host of the Hospitality Daily Show, josiah McKenzie.
Speaker 1:Hospitality Daily really came out of an observation. I had spending a decade in and around the hotel industry where I was seeing that people entered the industry for so many reasons. That were usually around. They care for people, they cared about serving people. They wanted to create experiences where people would be, you know, kind of feel good.
Speaker 1:And the day-to-day reality is can be very hard and it can also, because there's so many career paths in hospitality. Is can be very hard and it can also, because there's so many career paths in hospitality, you can end up in a job that is honestly in front of a computer with a lot of spreadsheets and zoom meetings and you think, hey, I'm working for a hotel company or hospitality company, but this isn't what I initially thought of. So I wanted people to reconnect with the why every day. Why do we do this? What's possible, what can we do? How do you get fired up?
Speaker 1:I think hospitality was one of those things, like media, where energy is really important and so, because inspiration is perishable, you have to fill that battery up every day, and so it's a short format podcast. Usually the episodes are more like 10 to 15 minutes. Talk with someone in the industry who's doing interesting things help them imagine for themselves. Hey, there's someone over here doing this interesting thing. Maybe I can have a variation of that here, and so that's what it's all been all about. It's been a ton of fun building this over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2:And that's, and I've listened to episodes. You're on my, you're on my scroll of podcasts on on Apple podcast From your point of view and now I know you don't directly, you know, have direct experience with private clubs, but I still think there's so much direct correlation between hotel hospitality and clubhouse. Same thing, interviews. At this point, what would you say are some of the top traits of successful hospitable groups? And when I say that because I don't want to say like a hotel chain, because they're franchise, you know there's different. They don't always own it, so there's other individual owners, but from the successful I would say ownerships, or the successful groups, what do you think separates them from a not so successful group?
Speaker 1:There's a lot of elements of success, I think, decent amount of similarities between a hotel company that's run well and a private club. I think, at the end of the day, both are there to serve people right, and, thinking about experience, I think about how they can provide that. I think in these different contexts, people's expectations or what they want from the club or from the hotel could vary, but I think a similar trait would be attentiveness to what people are looking for. I think that starts with listening. It starts with the knowledge of the people that you're looking to serve. I've talked with a range of people, from folks that are working at hotels or organizations that have been around for decades and have preserved this incredible legacy of success in providing hospitality, and then also a lot of people who are starting brand new concepts and so, depending on what environment you're stepping into, that's going to guide how you think about success. But I think a very common trait is listening. I see that across all levels, from the highest ultra luxury hospitality to more kind of lifestyle concepts that might be more mid-range.
Speaker 1:I had a conversation with the person who built the most successful, most profitable, most high-end resort Almanagiri in the United States, and it was interesting because that property is known for its design and its aesthetic and it's very, very high-end. But he was saying that even if you're building the most beautiful place, that only goes so far. It's the service experience that defines that highest end of luxury, that highest level of service. And so I think that comes down to that attentiveness to what people want. There's a recognition that what people want can vary. It could be the same person traveling different times, maybe for different reasons, maybe to different places. That's a little bit less applicable in a club context because it's typically a fixed location, but knowing that the same person, even showing up to the same place, could want different things on different visits, right, depending on the day, depending on who they are with.
Speaker 1:And so I think I think it's Danny Meyer has this concept of hospitality being something that you do for someone and not to someone. So it's not saying, hey, we have this out of this box thing that you know you're going to love and we're just going to give it to you. It's being attentive and listening and asking, and that's could be direct asking. It could be more subtle ways of inferring what someone is there to do, what their goal is, and so I think in the hotel world I was talking to Jen Murphy, who's a travel journalist for Bloomberg and the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 1:She's saying this is one of the hottest trends today, in 2024. And people may be listening to this in the future, but I think this is pretty timeless in the sense that people travel now with a purpose right Coming out of the pandemic. It was kind of revenge travel. We want to get out there. Now. It's like I want to do something Right and I think this is applicable in the club context as well. Right, because I might just be going there with my partner, or it could be going with my family, or maybe it's a gathering. I have kind of different goals every time I'm walking through those doors and so really understanding that and then proactively providing service that helps that person achieve what they're there to do.
Speaker 2:I think it's hospitality person achieve what they're there to do. I think it's hospitality. Who's some of the most memorable people that you've interviewed, or maybe someone who's left the biggest impression out of doing all your interviews so far in the hospitality space.
Speaker 1:First person that comes to mind is a gentleman named Michael Pace who is the general manager of the Intercontinental Mark Hopkins here in San Francisco iconic classic luxury hotel.
Speaker 1:He's been the manager and the leader of a lot of different styles of hotel here in San Francisco and beyond, and so I've observed over his career he's flexed to the environment and he's been able to lead effectively in these very, very different contexts. But I think, whether it's him or others I speak with, there is a real focus on ensuring that the right people are hired, they're trained, they're supported in the right way, they're empowered to do their best. And it's interesting because you think about a typical kind of brand experience luxury experience, maybe a club experience I think one might imagine an environment that is very scripted, but there are always going to be limitations to that, and the more scripted you are, the less you're able to provide very bespoke service. And so I think that's why I see Michael and others always coming back to hiring people with an aptitude for empathy, for listening, for serving, and then they layer on skills training on top of that. But it always starts with someone's desire to really serve people and help them have a good time.
Speaker 2:Isn't that Disney's philosophy? Higher for attitude, not aptitude, or something like that? Seems to have a good time. Isn't that Disney's philosophy? Higher for attitude, not aptitude, or something like that? It seems to have worked for them. Yeah, yeah, Can you point? Do you have a smile? Most of your teeth? We got you covered. You're in.
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Speaker 2:With Concert Golf Partners, your club gains access to a network of enhanced properties, reciprocal play privileges and a future free from the burden of debt and outdated facilities. They're not just building better clubs, they're crafting lasting legacies for members and communities alike. If you'd like to learn more about Concert Golf Partners or recapitalization, or learning how your members will have no more assessments, head on over to ConcertGolfPartnerscom. Set up a confidential call with Peter Danula and that's it Simple as that. Also, be sure to check out our episodes of Board Chats here on Private Club Radio, brought to you by our friends. You guessed it Concert Golf Partners. How do you define hospitality?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. Hospitality, I'd say, is I would define it in two parts. One is a base level of being cared for and things provided for you, and so there's. It's probably somewhat connected to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but I think there's a base level at this. Most fundamental hotels are bed and shelter right, I think, as they have been for millennia right. It's just a place right when you kind of feel, I think, as you kind of move up that hierarchy, then maybe there's food and drinks that I feel like someone has thought about. Hey, if I'm here now, I probably want this.
Speaker 1:I think if you move up that pyramid, then you get into more actualization and that's where experiences become more important and that's where you see a lot of hospitality companies investing a lot in whether it's events or opportunities for people they're serving to just experience new things. Right, and so it could be a show of you visiting a club. It could be, you know, it could be in a travel context of organizing some adventure in the area, but I think it it has. You have to get the basics right, and if you don't have a good bed and help someone have a good sleep in a lodging context, it's hard to move up that hierarchy. So I think in the private club context it would be interesting for listeners to think through what are those baseline essentials that we have to get right.
Speaker 2:And then how do we help them become their best selves as you move up that, that hierarchy into 25 that you possibly see that clubs might be able to take on? It's not like an unknown thing. Clubs are a little bit behind when it comes to most things. Just in terms of time we're a little bit behind. What are some trends for 24, 25 that you see from your point of view, from the hospitality industry and interviewing people?
Speaker 1:I think it's a more relevant proposition than it's ever been, and an opportunity to gather people together in person in real life, I think is only going to increase as time goes on.
Speaker 1:I've spent a lot of time looking at the impacts and opportunities and the second order effects of artificial intelligence and I think, as our ability to process data gets faster and faster, we're going to become less valuable for just kind of what we can think or ideas that we have, and I think the intangibles that hospitality provides the opportunity to gather people together, make them feel good is only going to increase this year, next year, for decades to come, and so I think this is a actually a really good place to be.
Speaker 1:I think there are opportunities to think about what are offerings that could be provided that maybe push the bounds of how some clubs have kind of thought about their role in the neighborhoods and the communities that they operate within. I think in the hotel side because that is such a broad bucket you see a lot of experimentation right now in terms of flexible use of space being part of mixed use developments, embedding deeply into communities through partnerships, through activities to not only become more valuable for the people that are visiting them, but to think about how can they impact their communities or their cities on a bigger level, and so that's going to look different for our listener people listening to this show depending on where they're working. But I think thinking more expansively about opportunities within hospitality is a huge growth area.
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Speaker 2:The world of member vetting has evolved to a new standard and Kennis is your turnkey solution to meet this new industry best practice. You can rely on Kennis to provide the facts that you need to make fully educated member decisions, because what you don't know can hurt your club and your members. To learn a little bit more, or to set up a call head on over to membervettingcom, fill out the form. You're going to have a chat with paul dank. It's going to be good, he's a great guy. Also, be sure to check out our episodes of member vetting here on private club radio. What about downward trends, things that are going away, and maybe more hotel hospitality? Or, just in your point of view, from the people in the hospitality industry that you've chatted with any things that people are stopping doing a little bit more, just not as important or just on.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say flavorful, but just not good I I think the trend toward commoditization of hospitality experiences being very standardized. I think through the 1950s, 60s, 70s, that was a huge push in hotels to be. That actually was the value proposition, because quality was all over the place. Having a standard offering was attractive. And then as more and more people were exposed to more and more things and as things like online reviews, better word of mouth, played a bigger role in people's decision of where to stay or what places to go to, that standardization became less valuable and even something that people wanted to avoid.
Speaker 1:And so I think that anytime you can kind of move away from robotics sort of this is the way that we always do things, that sort of mentality, I think for sure in the hotel side. There's opportunity there, depending on where listeners are working, you know. I think we have to think about kind seen is, humans are human, and so just because I am a member of a place or I am a customer of a certain brand, that doesn't mean I'm always that person Right, and so I think maybe there could be an opportunity to think more expansively around some different way that we could do something.
Speaker 2:Do you have any favorite books in hospitality or any books that give a hospitable feel that you enjoy consuming?
Speaker 1:I really enjoy. I mean Danny Meyer's Setting the Table is a kind of classic good one. I really enjoyed Chip Connolly's work, you know kind of building his business here in the San Francisco Bay Area. He was the founder of Joie de Vivre Hotels, which had dozens of lifestyle hotels across the country, and more recently he has devoted his energies toward the Modern Elder Academy and thinking about what is the role of people as you go through the, as you get older and you think about kind of maybe there's different motivations.
Speaker 1:I think it's fascinating on a lot of levels to me. I think there's a lot of meta-trends that underlie kind of the. You know the culture that we live in of people being healthier and more engaged for longer, and so I was talking to someone the other day that was talking about this is the first moment in history where we've had representation from sort of four generations in roughly equal proportion in hospitality portion in hospitality. And you know, I think this is more research, more hotel focus, but one in four hospitality workers are 65 plus, right, and so what does that look like to take all of the wisdom and perspective and expertise of someone who has observed and provided great hospitality for a long time and mentor and empower people from other generations who may have other insights, and how do you have a very productive multi-generational workforce? So anyway, a little bit of a side uh track there.
Speaker 1:But chip conley's work is really brilliant in the sense of not only think about that, but what does good hospitality look like? What does excellence look like? How do you help, how do you kind of tap into the Maslow's hierarchy of needs in a business context? And so he has a number of books. But if I had to pick one author it'd probably be him.
Speaker 2:Hmm, Do you consume? Are you a big consumptioner of hospitality content Like so? Are there any other, like podcasts or things that you listen to and take in? Or who do you look up to in the hospitality world or just in the world in general?
Speaker 1:I um in the hospitality world I do consume a lot. There's, um, you have a great podcast and so I'm thrilled to be on here, and you have a great back library. So hats off to you for building an incredible website where you can go and you can kind of see through past uh episodes. So I encourage everyone's listening to this for the first time and hasn't checked out that back catalog. Check it out. But in terms of like, on the hotel side, there's a number. I think there's no vacancy with Glenn Hausman and Anthony McCurry. There's defining hospitality with Dan Ryan. There's a hospitality mentor with Steve Turk and many, many others, but I think there's.
Speaker 1:I love the power of podcasting because you have an opportunity to hear some of the best insights from leaders across our space and if you go back through your back catalog, there's incredible leaders across the country, right, all these different types of clubs, which is insane, right, like just in your pocket, which is insane, right, like just in your pocket. You have access to learn from these incredible leaders, and so I would encourage our listeners like maybe you're listening to this as a one-off, but take some time to really kind of educate yourself and level up as a leader. I think the best leaders I've met have are just insanely curious, right. They're always, always learning, and it's not an age thing. I've talked to 70, 80 year olds that are constantly listening, reading, watching stuff, and I think that's one of the biggest traits I've seen of effective leaders is they never, never stop learning.
Speaker 2:And they purposely put themselves into positions that they know are uncomfortable and not good, because they know eventually they're gonna have to be in that position. So it's better to put yourself in it to know what it's like than to be like a fish out of water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, yeah from like I've, it was funny someone uh, because someone related I was chatting with somebody and it was like a leadership talk and it was. It clicked in that moment Cause. Then it was like, oh, that makes sense. Cause for me, with like tricks and shows and like in in routines, I'll purposely perform in like bad scenarios or like being bad. Like earlier in my career, I'd purposely like take bad gigs. I was like you know what it's going to be be bad because it's surrounded, you know there's no sound system and whatever. But I'm like what? What better way to you know work on the show and get it more like bulletproof than to go to one of those spots? So now I know, if I get somewhere and it's and I'm surrounded with no sound, I'm like I've been here before. It wasn't so Like I know how to sort of get out of this.
Speaker 2:I know how to. It sucks, but you kind of got to do it. But that's what I feel like leadership is. And you know, I think when you listen to some of these older people as well, that's what they have is just all these different experiences, all these different scenarios that they were in and they, you know, nothing surprises them, you know. And people who are 70, 80 now, they've been through some stuff Like they've been through like the world, the world has been weird the past couple of years. But, man, they've seen some stuff through the world.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, and for them to still have a smile on their face and do yeah, so Well, it's interesting Cause I sometimes I think our world is crazy now, and it is in some regards, and there's certainly, uh, some crazy stuff going on.
Speaker 1:But objectively, if you look at past decades, it doesn't hold a candle to like stuff that's gone on, even over the past couple decades. And so I it's interesting I, if I had to interview just one age cohort, it would be people 65 and above, because I find they're not only have that perspective and wisdom which I think most people would assume, but some people don't realize how relevant they are to the most cutting edge technologies or trends that are happening, because a lot of these technologies are very dependent on how, on human psychology and how humans interact with new ideas or organize. And so you know, whether it's ai or some other thing, some of the best insights that I've heard have come from um, come from people that you know that some might overlook, and so it's a. Again, it's a good reason to listen to podcasts because you hopefully have some people like this in your life, but if you don't, you know you've interviewed a number of folks that have have certainly kind of, you know, shown that sort of perspective and insight.
Speaker 2:And it's only that one little nugget that you're looking for, that one little thing that you go son of a, b, that was good, done, like, all right, we could, we could wrap this up now, but no, wrap this up now, um, but no like, and that's yeah, there, there's it's now. Now my brain's going because I'm starting to think now to some like my favorite episodes and some like the better episodes that I've had and done, like how they've tended to be a little bit older and so like. Now it's just so funny that you mentioned that I'm like oh no, now my brain's going to go on a mile, a minute, um, inspiration comes anywhere, though, and I think, like I think, um, it applies to podcasts, but also wherever our listeners are working.
Speaker 1:You know, definitely look to your leaders, but also, um, you know folks that you may not expect. I think a lot of productive mentorship relationships that I've been a part of or, you know, heard about, have, um, it's mutually beneficial right, and so I think you know people it could be someone with more experience mentoring someone with less experience, but often that fresh set of eyes is insanely valuable to thinking about potentially new ways of doing things.
Speaker 2:Especially from a uh, parallel industry or job or position that's close enough but just far enough that they can go. Why are you doing it that way? You know, because you know you see something. It's, it's, it's, it's just this perspective. So it's just this, this way. But someone who's on this side, you know, can see what looks like this giant gap from here. But from there they're like, oh well, why don't you just walk five feet that way, Cause now the gap comes to like a point and you can just walk across. You have to keep jumping. You're like, oh my god, I even think about that. So, but it's just having that slight little perspective shift that someone just goes. Well, you know, in our industry we do it this way and it's a lot quicker. It's like that makes total sense. Why don't we do it this way? Or why don't I? So yeah, it's uh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally agree yeah anything else you would like to add. Plug any product services courses you've been about.
Speaker 1:No product, services or courses. No, just every day I talk to somebody new at Hospitality Daily, so if you're into podcasts, check it out, hospitality.
Speaker 2:Daily Most interesting people in Hospitality.
Speaker 1:I try Well and I learn so much each day from, from the people um I I talk with. So, um, yeah, invite everyone to uh to check it out, but, um, this is really fun to to to appear on the show. Danny, I appreciate what you do. Man was almost 350 episodes right.
Speaker 2:What a library. It's crazy. So congratulations. More of like the branding, consulting, helping with newsletters, all that, all that sort of jazz and uh, pandemic hit. Um ice pivoted to virtual gigs. Um, you know, he pivoted to like some other stuff. So the the podcast kind of fell stagnant for for a bit. Um so in 2020, uh, end of 2022, I was like I think I'm gonna do a podcast double down more in the club space. This kind of fizzled a little bit and I was like hey, let's bring it back.
Speaker 2:So, uh, so, yeah, so, so. So I I a nice bank to work from, which is which is, which is very nice. But uh, I, at the beginning of the year, I was like I'm going to do an episode a day and I realized that's hard work. I give you so much credit. I'm up to two a week now.
Speaker 1:No, it's good, I'm actually going to be dialing back my interviews to probably just one or two a week and then I might splice it out on daily episodes, but I don't know. I think it's always good to be, you know, I guess, open handed around where something goes and I'm finding that sometimes I'll have a conversation. I just want to sit with it for at least a week, right, and I think sometimes the velocity of a new conversation every day, so I need to balance that desire I have to inspire people on a daily basis with thinking about the production side and kind of how can I best achieve that?
Speaker 2:there might be me talking with less people for longer, but still figuring that out what if you had each episode was 35 minutes and every day was five minutes from the episode so they can listen to the whole thing, or it could be like a five minute that could work, but yeah, no because yeah do you?
Speaker 2:do you find it sometimes difficult because you're like, oh, minute, that could work, but yeah, no, it's because. Yeah, do you, do you find it sometimes difficult because you're like, oh, this is good now, but you know it's like evergreen content, so it's going like no, it's just, oh for sure it's so tricky.
Speaker 1:It's so tricky, yeah, um, it's also kind of tricky to figure out. You know, where does it make sense to distribute as well? Because, um, I like how you have your shows up on youtube and then you can listen. I'm trying to figure out youtube, to be honest, because it is a whole different beast man I, so I've recorded in riverside from day one.
Speaker 2:So I have all of the. All the interviews are um video. I just started putting them up because I'm like it's another thumbnail, it's another thing to think about. So, just to get it started, I just now, I just I have my, I got the you know the artwork, so I'm just like, boom done. I don't edit anything else separate, so I don't put in other stuff by, just copy and paste the Buzzsprout, the podcast episode summary. I just click it right and I just I just put it up. So I'm like at least it's just getting put up. It's probably not the best.
Speaker 2:Um, what did I just read? Um, it was, uh, I was listening to a thing youtube, clear and concise videos that answer important questions are like the trajectory. So I think I might start which I've noticed, like huberman does it, like all, like the bigger podcasts, like joe rogan clips, yeah, they'll take that five, ten minute thing from the interview and that's just like that one video. It just answers that question and it's just that. So I'm like, okay, so maybe now that's the move a little bit. It's just uploading, so it's on there, so it's on the the channel, and then from every interview there's one or two where it's just like five minutes of like answering a question and just doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I think that's where it was. It your Ed Gaskell? No, no, it was another one you had where it was talking about the employee break room and upgrading that. Billy Panagiotopoulos, that's right, that's right. It was like how could I forget that?
Speaker 1:name, love his name, yeah but but I think like that was like an interesting one where, like I found it really fascinating to be like okay, well, I want to do something better for my team, but I had to talk to the board. I'm gonna have the board meet in the employee room and I think like that's like a if I'm hearing you right like that's a good example. It's like how I created a better employee break room or something you know. So, um, good stuff, man, good stuff. Well, you're on a roll. Thank you so much for having me. This was a ton of fun. I appreciate your time and invitation to join the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for being on. Hope you all enjoyed that. I know I did encourage you to head on over and check out the hospitality daily show podcast. It's a great show and if you're enjoying this content, as you know, like, share, subscribe. Share it with anyone and everyone. It means the absolute world costs nothing. That's this episode. I'm your host, denny Corby. Catch you on the flippity flip.
