Private Club Radio Show
355: Balancing a Small Membership with Public Access w/ Mark Iwinski, Old Corkscrew Golf Course
What does it take to manage a golf club through economic highs and lows, and how do you keep the greens vibrant despite unpredictable challenges? Join us for a captivating chat with Mark Iwinski, General Manager and COO of Old Corkscrew Golf Club, as he walks us through his remarkable journey since the club’s construction in 2005. From the economic downturn that struck shortly after its opening to the influx of new members who saw opportunity amidst adversity, Mark's insights provide a unique look at the resilience needed in the golf club industry.
Mark peels back the curtain on the staffing issues, operational hurdles, and surprising setbacks—like the mysterious halt in greens growth last year. Despite consulting with experts, the cause remained elusive, yet the club's strategic choices and resilience led to a full recovery. Mark's stories underline the importance of adaptability and determination in overcoming the unpredictable nature of the business.
We also explore the fascinating evolution of Old Corkscrew Golf Club, from its origins to its current hybrid model, balancing a small membership with public access. Mark shares his personal philosophy and joy in the semi-private club environment.
This episode offers a deep dive into the shifting dynamics of private golf club membership and management, enriched by Mark's nearly two-decade tenure at Old Corkscrew.
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What does it take to manage a golf club through economic highs and lows, and how do you keep the greens vibrant despite unpredictable challenges? Join us for a captivating chat with Mark Iwinski, General Manager and COO of Old Corkscrew Golf Club, as he walks us through his remarkable journey since the club’s construction in 2005. From the economic downturn that struck shortly after its opening to the influx of new members who saw opportunity amidst adversity, Mark's insights provide a unique look at the resilience needed in the golf club industry.
Mark peels back the curtain on the staffing issues, operational hurdles, and surprising setbacks—like the mysterious halt in greens growth last year. Despite consulting with experts, the cause remained elusive, yet the club's strategic choices and resilience led to a full recovery. Mark's stories underline the importance of adaptability and determination in overcoming the unpredictable nature of the business.
We also explore the fascinating evolution of Old Corkscrew Golf Club, from its origins to its current hybrid model, balancing a small membership with public access. Mark shares his personal philosophy and joy in the semi-private club environment.
This episode offers a deep dive into the shifting dynamics of private golf club membership and management, enriched by Mark's nearly two-decade tenure at Old Corkscrew.
Follow us on the socials
Private Club Radio Instagram
Private Club Radio Linkedin
Denny Corby Instagram
Denny Corby Linkedin
Hey everyone, welcome to Private Club Radio, the industry stores for news trends and updates. Whether you're brand new to the private club industry, welcome. Or a consummate professional, welcome back. The show dives into all topics private golf and country club related. I'm your host, denny Corby. Thank you all for being here.
Speaker 1:In this episode I chat with general manager COO of Old Corkscrew Golf Club, mark Iwinski, and I got linked up with him through my really good friend, Jason Becker from Golf Life Navigators and I was down with Jason and I just got done speaking at a MDASF events Marketing Directors Association of Southwest Florida. Shameless plug for myself. If you or your club is looking for some amazing entertainment, a really fun evening, I have the Denny Corby Experience Magic, mind Dreaming and Comedy the most fun you and your club are going to have guaranteed. It's a really great time. If you're interested in learning more, head over to dennycorbycom. Holler at me. I'm always on LinkedIn and the socials as well.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I was chatting with Jason and I was driving to the airport and he said hey, you have to go chat with my friend, mark Iwinski over at Old Corkscrew. He's really great dude, really good story. It's a really cool course. So this is just a fun conversation me and Mark had there in person. My big butt broke one of the chairs. It has that like webbing netting. It was a time, uh, we are talking outside and people ended up coming and some things happened. So the noise, background noise there. There there's a little bit uh, conversations, a little little all over the place, but still just a really fun, fruitful, um, human to human conversation I had with my new friend, mark Iwinski. How long have you been?
Speaker 2:here for I started the golf course, came with the group. You started the club yeah, yeah, it was 18 years ago. The original investors and players in the club that were part of the group this was back in, back in Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, it's just going to be easier Okay.
Speaker 2:Is this good enough? Yeah, so back in. Oh, I was hired by the entity in 2005, late. We started construction in 2006 and then opened a soft opening in late 2006, 2007.
Speaker 1:What a time to start a club.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's part of the story. It's. I think we caused an economic downturn back then once we opened our doors. It was just an omen or maybe something. Once we opened the doors, that was it. That was the tilting point. I guess you'd say, but no, we came out of the gates really strong. I mean gosh, we were. And this is back in 2005, and charging almost the same rates we are today.
Speaker 2:And so that puts kind of a little depiction of where we were back in the economy, back in the heyday I mean down here it was. You know, I always tell folks, I think, what happened in this market and I don't know how much Southwest Florida itself influenced the whole market, but there was the Wall Street Journal, Cooker's here.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, all right.
Speaker 2:No, they're ready. Those go back to 2006.
Speaker 3:So there you go. So there, you didn't want to move. Now I'm glad I didn't break you, let's put it that way. But no, we're fine.
Speaker 2:Danny, but it was interesting times indeed.
Speaker 3:So we came out of the gate.
Speaker 2:It was shortly after that that the economy turned and you wouldn't have recognized this area back then. I mean there were clubs, big players in this market who went belly up. I mean it was across the gamut, belly up. I mean it was across the gamut and it was a fortuitous thing for a lot of these private clubs, for the members there, because they were able to get in on the cheap and purchase these clubs. And now it's just a complete reversal.
Speaker 1:You're just not coming up the road here, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know not a golf course being constructed in sight. I don't know if you've studied the area, but everything now is moving inland and I mean inland 30, 35 miles, big projects. I believe the Colliers have something going on the golf and rod and gun club, very high-end private initiation and it's also part of a development that they'll have out there and there's talk.
Speaker 3:We were you know I had several entourages out here.
Speaker 2:Oh, certain something. We have a small membership and we're also open to the public here. How many memberships do you have? Oh, I might be stretching at 60. And it's sweet for them because they get that royal treatment and it's nice. They get that royal treatment and it's nice. There is some feeling of ownership here with these folks that this is their place and it's fun having them too. So my background was actually in the summer. Private club industry was actually in the semi-private club industry.
Speaker 3:I have a background of a few clubs I've worked at in the market here.
Speaker 2:Sorry about this you know semi-private and then both of them have converted to being fully private.
Speaker 3:But I like this world.
Speaker 2:I like dealing with you know fresh faces every day. What's it like? Being at the same place since 2005, 2006, 2007 it just doesn't seem that long when I say that 18 years, one of these folks I try not to embellish at all, but it was. We're in 2024 and this was yeah, it was 2005. So that's have I got my math correct? I hope 30 years to 2005, weird.
Speaker 2:No, 30 years, 20 years, so yeah, yeah, there you go going on 20 years. Maybe I tried to forget it. You know, since I go Go on 20 years, maybe I'd try to forget it. It means I'm having the children too. No, but it's.
Speaker 1:I think rare to see people in the same position for so long. It has to be something to. You must be doing something wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's dodging bullets you know laying low, no, it's. I've always had this way about me. You know, treat everybody the same. I mean it's genuine, what you see is what you get. So you don't ostracize folks. Or you know, treat people with preference and then the other group not, because I've always come back to you and that's what happens in a lot of clubs. I know many good friends who are quality guys and that, but they may have rubbed that wrong person, you know, in the wrong way and that person is then the chairman of the club board and I've never actually worked for a board head of clubs, so I don't know. Yeah, so I've had the fortune of working for ownership private owners, it's nice.
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Speaker 2:It's a back and forth flow. You're not being segmented into different committees that will answer this, and I respect those guys that work at those types of clubs. It's a lot, it's hard yeah.
Speaker 1:It's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard. I don't know if I'd really do it. There's so many, I know so many. When people say they may have like 300 bosses.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all the credit to them. It's a lot of work.
Speaker 2:It really is. Just recently here there were some clubs. Their opportunities have opened up. You know they're in certain positions and I was serious. These folks, I was at a club I previously worked at and I could see where they were going. I just shook my head. No, anything to do with meals in the evening. You know, when you have night dining and that it's that opens itself up to a lot of challenges. You know you've got staffing issues and folks leaving there. You know, at midnight, close to it, who knows if they're going home, type of deals. Oh yeah, no, this is enough and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Are your now? Are there houses on the course here? No, no, and it's a lot of fun. Are there houses on the course here?
Speaker 2:No, no, it's a core golf and a little history. This was actually a project that was started by the Bonita Bay Properties back in the day and this was going to be an auxiliary course for all their golfing communities. So they saw the demand, or at least they had forecasted there would be enough demand that there would be some overflow. So this is where those overflow folks would end up. And there was a previous turn, a little blipip in the market, and they put the project on hold and the group that hired me. They saw the opportunity, they purchased the property. Everything was laid out. It was almost too easy, like cheating.
Speaker 2:Nicholas had already done all the engineering the layout, sight lines were drawn and it was technically a shovel-ready project so we were able to start on the way saved us a lot of time. We built it I say start to finish in less than 10 months.
Speaker 1:That's pretty quick. That's pretty quick.
Speaker 2:That's pretty quick, can be done. There was a rock underneath there so we didn't have to do any blasting. That's one thing you run into in Florida.
Speaker 3:You hit the wide rock and next thing.
Speaker 2:you know you're having to not just dig but blast as well. So that was For the TNT, yeah. So it was nice for the construction of it that was doing that. They had a nice go at this and then they were able to mold the fairways and sculpt it the way that they want without any impediments. So that also expedited the process.
Speaker 1:You guys have a lot of really good reviews online as well.
Speaker 3:We do yeah.
Speaker 1:To see people who have more than 20, maybe even 100 Google reviews. You've done this 500. Yeah, that's not really good. I was happy to see that.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. Yeah, we're sensitive to, of course, the patrons coming out. A lot of challenges we have here. You know the severity of the course. And then last year we had a little reversal at the most inopportune time when our grass on our greens decided not to grow any longer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and who knows?
Speaker 2:Anyone's guess I mean people say fungus, I'm not going to fungus, I don't take fungus, but it was the trying time last year at this time. So what did you do? So we pretended like we were in good shape. No, we just put on.
Speaker 3:You know, I tell folks, you know my kids I had enough Disney in me.
Speaker 2:you know you put on the Mickey Mouse costume and, yeah, a lot of refunds back last year at this time and people and actually it's so funny because out of that, in that period I met some really great folks. I mean that you know they were upset but then, after chatting with them and taking care of them and, you know, nursing them back to our side they know this established nice relationships that carry on yeah to this day.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was what we have. Was it all the grass? It was, I tell folks it might as well have been it was. It would have been better, I think, had all the grass disappeared, because then you know what you're up against. You're. You're basically putting on dirt, the ball's rolling, true, and and that, but it was, uh, yeah. So, um, we, uh, yeah, we were able to, you know, find the person, the superintendent, and get it back in track. There's something about, you know, obviously Florida and the sunshine Grass wants to grow down here.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So again, kind of a mystery. We had experts, I mean the leading guys in this field, you know, come down here and again you know various opinions and that you know the standard permutant decline. Well, okay, that's a fever, like what's causing it, you know. So our owner, great gentleman David Hoffman, I begged him. I said, whatever you do, don't re-grass the greens, we'll get these back. And he believed me. And we're in much better shape. The horse is in really good condition.
Speaker 1:So you had some sick grass, sick grass, sick grass, yeah.
Speaker 2:So anyone's guess, you know, is still a mystery.
Speaker 1:So what did you end up doing?
Speaker 2:Well, you get out of, okay. So again, you know this is happening. Last year we had a couple of weather revers reversals. You know you have these fluctuations. You know the very cold days followed by high uh, humidity days with uh, you know, higher temperatures. So the grass goes dormant for a while, not totally off like up north, but you know your Bermuda will really go to sleep on you and once that is, if you're losing your grains, then the grass is going to sleep. It's pretty much game over. So we had, yeah, so as the temperatures came back and rose, you know the conditions were more in line to growing grass. You know the greens start to pop and, just you know, start doing good horticultural practices.
Speaker 1:Luckily, yeah, did it happen all like, does it happen all at once? Or was it like or was it like you know, like a little thing here and there and like, so it happened. Oh, that's, that's wild.
Speaker 2:No, no, you know. That's an excellent question, denny, because again, it's not my field and and I I won't say I know enough make myself dangerous because I know more than that. I know, but you know it's, I understand.
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Speaker 2:You started the club yeah, yeah, it was 18 years ago and the original investors and players in the club that were part of the group this was back in, back in.
Speaker 3:Back in Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just going to be easier. Okay, is this?
Speaker 2:good enough, yeah, so back in. Oh, I was hired by the entity in 2005, late. We started construction in 2006 and then opened soft opening in late 2006, 2007.
Speaker 1:What a time to start a club.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's part of the story. It's. I think we caused an economic downturn back then once we opened our doors. It was just an omen or maybe something. Once we opened the doors, that was it. That was the tilting point. I guess you'd say, but no, we came out of the gates really strong. I mean gosh, we were. And this is back in 2005, and charging almost the same rates we are today and charging almost the same rates we are today, and so that puts kind of a little depiction of where we were back in the economy back in the heyday I mean down here it was.
Speaker 2:I always tell folks, I think, what happened in this market and I don't know how much Southwest Florida itself influenced the whole market, but there was the Wall Street Journal Over here.
Speaker 3:That's all right.
Speaker 2:No, they're ready. Those go back to 2006.
Speaker 3:So there you go. So there, you didn't want to move. Now I'm glad it didn't break you, let's put it that way.
Speaker 2:But no, we're fine, Danny, but it was interesting times indeed.
Speaker 3:You know. So we came out of the gate.
Speaker 2:You know it was still, it was shortly after that that the economy turned and you wouldn't have recognized this area back then. I mean, there were clubs, big players in this market who went belly up. I mean it was across the gamut and it was a fortuitous thing for a lot of these private clubs, for the members there, because they were able to get in on the cheap and purchase these clubs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now it's just a complete reversal you did not come up the road here, oh yeah and, and you know not a not a golf
Speaker 2:course being constructed in sight I don't know if you've studied the area but everything now is moving inland, and I mean inland Thirty, thirty-five miles, Big projects. I believe the Colliers have something going on the golf and rod and gun club very high-end private initiation and it's also part of a development that they'll have out there and there's talk. We were you know, I had several entourages come through here, you know, because there are groups looking to purchase and that I was certain somebody would jump at the opportunity, because it is not an opportunity.
Speaker 3:But we're fine, we're very pleased with how things are going.
Speaker 2:We're kind of a hybrid mode. We have a small membership and we're also open to the public here how many memberships do you have? Oh, I might be stretching it's 60. And it's sweet for them because they get that royal treatment and it's nice. And there is some feeling of ownership here with these folks that this is their place. And it's fun having them too. So my background was actually in the semi-private club industry.
Speaker 3:I have a background of a few clubs I've worked in in the market here Sorry about this, you know semi-private. And then here.
Speaker 2:Sorry about this. Some are private. Both of them have converted to being fully private. But I like this world. I like dealing with fresh faces every day?
Speaker 1:What's it like being at the same place since 2005,. 2006,?
Speaker 2:2007? It just doesn't seem that long. When I say that 18 years. One of these folks I try not to embellish at all, but it was. We're in 2024 and this was yeah, it was 2005, so that's uh, I've got my math correct. I hope 30 years, this is 2005, weird, no, 30 years, 20 years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah there you go, Go ahead. 20 years.
Speaker 2:Maybe I try to forget it. It means I'm having a child. No, but it's.
Speaker 1:I think, rare to see people in the same position for so long. So it has to be something to. You must be doing something wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's dodging bullets you know laying low? No it's. I've always had this way about me. You know, treat everybody the same. I mean it's genuine, what you see is what you get. Genuine, what you see is what you get and that so you don't ostracize folks or, you know, treat people with preference and then the other group not, because I will always come back to you and that's what happens in a lot of clubs.
Speaker 2:I know many good friends quality guys and that, but they may have rubbed that wrong person, you know, in the wrong way and that wrong person in the wrong way and that person is then the chairman of the club board and I've never actually worked for a board at a club, so I don't know. Yeah, so I've had the fortune of working for ownership private owners, and it's nice. You know it's a back-and-forth flow.
Speaker 2:You're not being segmented into different committees, that we answer this and I respect those guys that work at those types of clubs. It's hard clubs, it's hard it's hard.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'd be able to do it. There's so many people say they can have like 300 bosses yeah all the credit to them. It's a lot of work, it really is just recently here.
Speaker 2:There's some clubs. There were opportunities that were open. You know they had certain positions and I was serious. These folks were at a club I previously worked at and I could see where they were going. I just shook my head. No, anything to do with meals in the evening. You know when you have night dining and that that opens up a lot of challenges. You know you've got staffing issues and folks leaving there, you know at midnight, close to it, who knows if they're going home, type of deal. So no, this is enough and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Are there houses on the course here?
Speaker 2:No, no, it's a core golf and a little history. This was actually a project that was started by the Bonita Bay Properties back in the day and this was going to be sort of an auxiliary course for all their golfing communities. So they saw the demand, or at least they had forecasted there would be enough demand that there would be some overflow. So this is where those overflow folks ended up and there was a previous turn, a little blip in the market, and they put the project on hold and the group that hired me. They saw the opportunity, they purchased the property. Everything was laid out. It was almost too easy, like cheating.
Speaker 2:Nicholas had already done all the engineering. The layout Sight lines were drawn and it was technically a shovel-ready project. Already done all the engineering, the layout, sight lines were drawn and it was technically a shovel-ready project, so we were able to start underway saved us a lot of time. We built an I-safe start to finish in less than 10 months.
Speaker 1:That's pretty quick. That's pretty quick, mm-hmm, that's pretty quick.
Speaker 2:So can be done. Yeah, there was a rock underneath here, so we didn't have to do any blasting Nice, and that's one thing you run into in.
Speaker 3:Florida.
Speaker 2:You know, you hit the live rock and next thing, you know you're having to not just dig but blast as well. So that was For the TNT.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was nice for the construction of it. That was doing that. They had a nice go at this and then they were able to mold the fairways and sculpt it the way that they want without any impediments in the bottom up, so that also expedited the process.
Speaker 1:You guys have a lot of really good reviews online as well. We do, yeah, surprisingly, I shouldn't say that, but to see people who have more than 20, maybe even 100 Google reviews. You've run this 500. Yeah, not really good. I was happy to see that I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're sensitive to, of course, the patrons coming out. A lot of challenges we have here. You know, the severity of the course. The severity of the course. And then last year we had a little reversal at the most inopportune time when our grass on our greens decided not to grow any longer.
Speaker 3:Yeah and who knows, anyone's guess I mean.
Speaker 2:People say fungus, I'm like fungus, I don't know, okay, fungus. But it was the trying time last year at this time. So what did you do? So we pretended like we were in good shape and no, we just put on.
Speaker 3:You know, I tell folks, you know, my kids I had enough Disney in me.
Speaker 2:You know you put on the Mickey Mouse costume and, yeah, a lot of refunds back last year at this time and people and actually it's so funny because out of that, in that period, I met some really great folks.
Speaker 2:I mean that you know they were upset, but then, after chatting with them and taking care of them and, you know, nursing them back to our side, they uh know to establish some nice relationships that carry on, yeah, to this day. And uh, but yeah, it was what we have. Uh, was it all the grass? It was, um, I, I tell folks it might as well have been all I mean it was. It would have been, I think, had all the grass disappeared, because then you know what you're up against. You're basically putting on dirt, the ball's rolling, true and that, but it was yeah.
Speaker 2:So we, yeah, we were able to, you know, find the person, the superintendent, and get it back in track. There's something about, you know, obviously, florida and the sunshine Grass wants to grow down here, yeah, so, again, kind of a mystery. We had experts, I mean the leading guys in this field, you know, come down here and again, again, you know various opinions and that you know the standard permute and owner, great gentleman, david Hoffman. I begged him. I said, whatever you do, don't re-grass the greens, we'll get these back. And he believed me and we're in much more better shape. I'm in really good condition.
Speaker 1:So you had some sick grass.
Speaker 2:Sick grass so anyone's guess, you know, still a mystery so.
Speaker 1:So what did you end up doing? So what well?
Speaker 2:you. You get out of, okay. So again, you know this is happening. Last year we had a couple of weather reversals. You know you have these fluctuations. You know the very cold days followed by high humidity days with, you know, higher temperatures. So the grass goes dormant for a while, not totally off like up north, but your Bermuda will really go to sleep on you and once that is, if you're losing your grains, then the grass is going to sleep. It's pretty much game over. So as the temperatures came back and rose and the conditions were more in line to growing grass, you know the greens start to pop and just you know, start doing good horticultural practices.
Speaker 2:There we are back at it, luckily, yeah.
Speaker 1:Did it happen all like? Does it happen all at once?
Speaker 2:It seems like it or was it?
Speaker 1:like you're like a little thing here and there and like, so it happened.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's, that's wild no, no, you know that's an excellent question, denny, because, um, again, it's not my field and and I I won't say I know, not make myself dangerous because I know more than that. I know, but you know it's.
Speaker 1:But you had some plumbing issues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we have. You know, we are that far out removed from civilization out here that we have to create our own septic system, drain field and also our own well water, that we uses our potable water really nice, yeah, it's. Uh, it's a nice spot really. Is so you know? So, uh, situating this market here, and you're probably aware of what's going on. I I mean there's no availability of any memberships Anywhere. I believe the Forests might be open. Have some openness. I could be wrong there, but I know in Collier not at all.
Speaker 1:No, just waiting, waiting. I was just taught who was just telling me. Now, there was, there's clubs, there was, uh, you know, people were waiting to being told two years. They put down everything. Now it's like two more years, like their two years are coming up, and then, oh, and also you, you owe us more.
Speaker 2:Like it's just wild um, I wanted to start a business. I I was talking to a buddy and I said why don't we just start a club in waiting? Like never, like this fictitious club. Have people believe that it really exists. Send us deposits for a you know, to be this member in waiting. You know how absurd it gets here. Denny is that there is actually I forget who. It was a friend in one of the more affluent clubs here and he goes yeah, we have a waiting list, non-refundable $5,000 or $10,000, whatever the fee was. So that's the privilege of being on the waiting list, and I think they throw them a bone If it's summer they might let them play for a few rounds.
Speaker 1:After 1 pm on a full moon lunar cycle, yep.
Speaker 2:And oh, by the way, that list is full. Now, However, we have the waiting list to get on the waiting list. Now there's no.
Speaker 2:I said please tell me you don't charge a fee. No, we're kind of lenient there, but and yeah, if you get off the list you lose your money and if you were to change your mind you go to the back of the bus. Yep, so it's. You know, I was chatting with a friend who's involved in real estate down here. He actually sells up the road. Are you guys getting any? Are you seeing a trend now of folks who are non-golfers versus a golfer variety? Because what are you telling these people that come down? And I know several that are in that limbo state, that are in a situation just waiting to get into some club. So you have Mr Fortune 100 CEO coming down here.
Speaker 1:You're going to tell him to wait.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you are but boy what's that club on the East Coast? Million Dollar Initiation have you heard of them. It used to be the Diplomat, I can't remember.
Speaker 1:Isn't Michael Jordan's course, isn't his club, that's maybe only 250.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's the name of his? Grove 29?
Speaker 1:23. 23? Isn't 23 his number? I think maybe Was it Grove 23?, I think.
Speaker 2:I don't know and he's. I learned a couple of kind of few tricks of the trade. You know just indirectly from what he does there, like his merchandise, whatever he does. I mean you're paying premium plus, like a cap there might cost you $120. Easy, yeah, easy, and everything you know, the whole experience is so off the charts and unique that yeah, he's.
Speaker 1:Mr Murtaugh, I just had a guest on my show. She helped open the Ahupi Match Club up in Georgia. I don't know if you've heard of that. It's like a little private club, privately owned. It's like a little. It's like a private club privately owned, right, like it's like a guy and a couple buddies, but every year your membership has to get re-approved. So I think that they what did she say? They have like a no asshole policy. Oh yeah, that's their thing. That's why every year it's like you have to get like invited back to, I believe it, which.
Speaker 2:I think is a good idea, that's yeah, I wonder the number of membership directors down in Naples how they're cutting out a living these days. There's a lot of those positions were commission based.
Speaker 1:you know base and commission, so I was just at uh, just at a club, and I asked, I asked the marketing person that that same question I go how do you not in like a negative way, but like if you have a wait list cause it was actually it's a, it's a questions like popped up, like if you have a wait list, why do you need a membership person? Yeah, like how does that work? Um, but I think, just like everybody they take ownership of like what they do and how they do things and like so she, like it was, she just uh, just through how she did the tour, I can just automatically tell like the type of personality, like it's not just it's the, she's very engaging still with the actual members, because you know they're a source of source of referrals and all of that. But just like how she engaged with like the membership and like so it's not just bringing in the membership, it's also, you know, keeping them engaged and making them check in the pulse of things.
Speaker 2:No, I could see the value to somebody like that because you have all the records and you know that person knows all those folks and that.
Speaker 1:But you do probably have people who just see it as oh, I'm here to sell a membership, oh, I don't have, I don't need it, it's not going to do well here.
Speaker 2:When I was at Miramar Lakes, I played a dual role there. I was the head pro and the membership director.
Speaker 3:That's hard, I loved it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a lot of fun, so we were just starting out back then.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was before here and it was, yeah, it was fun. So we shared the course. We were somewhat private at that point, but they're one of those clubs. Now they're pretty much maxed out and eventually I believe that club will turn over to the members. It's owned by a private owner now and really nice spot, nice design, member-friendly type of course.
Speaker 1:If you want to get detailed, detailed, we're all in the membership business, like it's all. Every position is technically, yeah, making you know as a sell and all that, but yeah, no, it's, it's a golf and clubs. Wild times now, but things are starting to level back out, at least in the rest of the world naples and in florida, here by you know is is definitely its own own unique animal.
Speaker 1:Um, but that's been a fun not not a but uh, seeing his clubs boomed. Everybody had wait lists. Now everything's are going back to normal. So the clubs that weren't doing well financially or for like whatever reasons you know, they had their, their, their potholes patched, like you know. Oh, we have a wait list, now we got this and now it's oh, there's not a wait list anymore, and we weren't really keeping track of all of those people who were on the wait list. Now they moved.
Speaker 2:So now all the holes are coming back Deceased. That's how it is.
Speaker 1:But you know, some clubs are starting to go know where they were pre-pandemic and back to issues and struggles. But you guys have a whole set of unique problems down here.
Speaker 2:And it's, you know, it's very interesting in this market again. You know, when I first came here, it was I'd say 70-30. It was I'd say 70-30. 70 would be your public, semi-private type of arrangement, 30% would be your fully exclusive, whereas now it's probably 10% public and 90% just private. That's why this area is really what you'd call a true golfing destination for the group of guys, even though we do see them coming down. Yeah, but I can name the four courses, maybe three Ourselves Salt Leap and Tibberall.
Speaker 1:I was just there this morning too.
Speaker 2:Were you. Yeah, so you know their situation. Same deal. You know they have two courses. They flip them out between the members there and the hotel guests and they take outside rounds.
Speaker 2:Have you been to Salt Leaf? No, it's interesting. I was formerly known as Raptor Bay, tied in with the Hyatt. I believe the Hyatt relinquished their ownership, or half of it, but with an agreement that the course has to stay available to the hotel. I'm not sure. That's what I thought I heard. But now they're building these Ritz-Carlton residences around there, yep, and you know, starting at $10 million, $12 million and up. So those folks will be clamoring for their own private course at some point. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1:I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I don't know, it's going to be interesting to see it's down the road a little ways. But yeah, there's, you know, denny, nothing really going on. I mean, the price of real estate is just way too high to really make. Well, I take that back. I guess you could do it, but I don't know anyone other than some of these folks that are staking their claim way out west or east of us here into the. I guess the Collier family has a lot of land still out east.
Speaker 3:you know coming up, so you might see.
Speaker 2:And then there was another project, center of the State, kind of like a stream song idea, but very, very exclusive, very private, and the gentleman that shared this with me, I mean this was literally just off the charts. I mean it was the whole concept, everything, the whole concept, everything it was. I don't really know the player or the name of the person, didn't identify, but a well-heeled individual that wants to have his own little paradise out there.
Speaker 2:And I mean you're packing three lunches to get there. I mean it's, and that's why I scratch my head. At what point are folks? Is there going to be a turnoff, with people being forced inland? You know what I'm saying. Unless it's that super nice and exclusive and brilliant. It won't matter. Only time will tell.
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