Private Club Radio Show
Welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, the industry's weekly source for education, news, trends, and other current developments in the world of private clubs.
Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
Whether you're involved in a golf club management, yacht clubs, athletic clubs, or business clubs, the Private Club Radio Show is the essential podcast for
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Private Club Radio Show
357: Flexibility and Adaptability in Leadership w/ Ralph Edmonds
We sit down with Ralph Edmonds from Evansville Country Club. Ralph’s journey from sous chef to general manager is a masterclass in flexibility and adaptability.
Discover how he’s handled unexpected challenges and hear his invaluable advice on member relations while keeping up with industry trends.
Join us for an in-depth exploration of Ralph's remarkable career path, starting from his early days at Pine Hollow Country Club in 1998. We traverse his experiences across prestigious hotels like the St. Regis and Sheridan Park Avenue, and his pivotal move into country club management. Influenced by his Italian upbringing and his mother’s work in diners, Ralph’s story is a testament to how passion and dedication can lead to a fulfilling career in general management.
From the evolution of club management careers to the unique hurdles faced in smaller cities, Ralph shares his firsthand experiences and insights. Learn how technological advancements have reshaped operational dynamics and member expectations over the past two decades. Don’t miss the engaging conversation on the logistical challenges and labor pool limitations,
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Just like he said there improvise, adapt, overcome. You have to be flexible in this business, so you have to be prepared for anything that can be thrown your way, because it's going to happen and probably several times on the same event or outing, or whatever it may be outing or whatever it may be. So I think the most important thing is having a flexibility to be able to change and adapt not only to the times but also to the moment, because something is always happening that is going to throw a wrench into the works, and the better prepared you are to handle that, the better off you're going to be.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio, the industry's choice for news, trends, updates and conversations all in the world of private golf and country clubs, from leadership, management, governance, food and beverage, marketing, branding you name it we got it all covered. Whether you're an industry professional or consummate professional industry veteran, welcome back. If you're brand new to the industry, then welcome. We are glad you're here. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:In this episode I chat with a friend of mine. We've been friends for probably about six, seven years now, mr Ralph Edmonds, over at the Evansville Country Club in Evansville, indiana. But I met him in Shreveport. I met him in Louisiana years ago and since then he has made his journey over to Indiana. We talk about how I loved his story because we talked cause. He started off as a shoe chef, shoe chef, sous chef and transitioned into management and up and then into general management roles, and he's worked at various high-end resorts and clubs all over the country.
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Speaker 1:You know, probably not in the beginning my first country club job I took in 1998 as a sous chef. My first club job was in 94, but my first country club was in 98. I was hired on as the executive sous chef at Pine Hollow Country Club and about 10 months later the executive chef, who was Steve Vando, decided he was going to move into an AGM role and move in to try and become a general manager, which he did. So I mean that really started the hey, maybe I could do this to kind of train a thought.
Speaker 2:Gotcha and it was. You've had a mix of, because currently you're at Evansville in Indiana, then you're Shreveport, so and a lot of resorts before that and, like resorts, high end, types of places. It was a few few hotels. Yeah yeah, uh, types of places. It was a few few hotels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, back in the early nineties, um, right after I got out of the army, I was with the Sheridan park Avenue. I was part of the grand reopening team of the St Regis.
Speaker 2:I worked at the hotel Pierre Um okay, so yeah, and then, and somehow, clubs just sucked you in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, once I got into Pine Hollow, then another manager, jerry Sherhammer, who was the assistant GM at Elmwood Country Club at the time, he took a GM job at Columbian Country Club in Dallas and asked me to go down there, so which I did, and then I wound up working with Jerry at three different properties. So we worked together in Dallas, we worked together in Maryland and we worked together at the start in Shreveport, louisiana.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. So that was going to be one of my next question is, you know, because I was doing my research and digging around and I saw you were popping around a bit, so I was. I was gonna say like oh, were you following like another club professional? Because like, sometimes that's how it usually works, is like there's like a little like group, uh.
Speaker 1:So I wasn't sure there yeah, somebody goes somewhere and you get this call like, hey, I think this might be a good fit for you too, whatever.
Speaker 2:So got you and then and you did a small run by me in Pennsylvania, in Allentown.
Speaker 1:I did. Yeah, it was, uh, foglesville. Uh, a small, uh very high end B and B, which was. It's really a fantastic property 150 acres, only 37 luxury suites. We raised cattle and hogs on the property so we used those on the menu. Really a great place. It just wasn't the right place for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, would it be safe to assume it was a little too slow-paced Would?
Speaker 1:it be safe to assume it was a little too slow-paced. No, I mean, sometimes when you're dealing with single owners, it's a little interesting. We'll say so.
Speaker 2:I retired on as the EC and the second day I was there I became general manager. Slash EC. Say no more. Say no more, all right, all right. So because to me in my head I was thinking about you know, you're doing all these resorts and beautiful places and then you go to I'm not saying it's not a beautiful place, but you go to some place like this, only 30 rooms. In my head I'm like, oh, maybe it was like a slower pace and wasn't a good fit. But say no more, fam. So how did you get into cooking? Like, why cooking? Why food?
Speaker 1:You know I started young. I mean my mother was a short order cook at diners around New York and she was either working in the front of the house or the back of the house. I mean there's pictures of me as an infant in a playpen in a kitchen, as an infant in a playpen in a kitchen. So you know, coming from an Italian family, the cooking is just in our blood. So it was really ingrained for me from a young age. I always loved it.
Speaker 1:And you know just the career path, the way it took me, gotcha, and so I've known you since Shreveport. And was that one of your? Was that like one of the first major GM? How dare you? What's?
Speaker 2:that? How dare you?
Speaker 1:No, I'm kidding, but went to a resort as a GM in their steakhouse and opened up no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, oh, definitely For sure. No, that's a really good perspective and being able to leave that Because you probably created some different relationships, learned more about maybe some outside vendors and things- yeah, so I do this all 18-20.
Speaker 1:Right, so a lot of on-the-job training, a lot of self-teaching and putting myself in situations where I had the ability to pick up different pieces of information.
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Speaker 2:I was just. Who was I just talking to? Pretty much just about that, uh, but it was in terms of, like you know, with my background in like magic and entertainment. It's early on. You know, part of the I don't want to say the uh training, but it's encouraged. A lot of people don't do it, but it's like sort of different than this. But like put yourself in bad situations, meaning, like you know, make, like, go perform in a spot where you know you're not a good fit or where, like, the conditions aren't great. Like go see if you can perform that in, like in a corner room without a sound system, no microphone, and have people like like almost behind you. So similar, like different, like the same. But just like you know you put yourself in different scenarios, different situations, just so when you do come up into something it's not like a surprise. So basically, yeah, ojt, I'm on the job training. Just the difference between a chef and a magician.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny because we often talk about tenure and staying with something and doing it. Chef at the Sheridan Park Avenue, mike Stafford, you know he said, ralph, you should move every six months and learn as much as you can from as many people as you can to help you develop your own style. And you know at some point in your career that needs to change and you need to be tenured and need to be stable. But early on I think it's so important for you to be able to not become stagnant.
Speaker 2:And that's clear through your experience and what you've done I think was one of your longest stays at the Shreveport Club.
Speaker 1:Shreveport Club, columbian Club in Dallas. I was there for about six years, so yeah, those two were probably the longest. Here in Evansville is hopefully my last stop. You know, this is it. I'm going to try and stay here and into retirement and we'll hope that happens.
Speaker 2:What are some differences between Shreveport and Evansville, Indiana?
Speaker 1:Outside of the weather, it's really. There's a lot of similarities just because they're two small cities. They're both the third largest city in their respective state, so we face similar challenges. Right, the third largest city in their respective state. So we face similar challenges. Right, there's not a huge labor pool when you're in a smaller place. Your resources are lessened if you're in a smaller city. So a lot of times your deliveries are coming from, you know, hours away, and those hours, unlike in New York, are not driven by traffic, right, these are driven by miles. So when you're facing that, it's hard to you know, we have a mispick, All right, we'll get it over to you in 20 minutes, Like no, we'll see you tomorrow, you know. So you know those are some of the challenges of a small city. And the recruiting part you know, regardless of the ad you put out, you get the same 30 or 40 resumes every time.
Speaker 2:Here comes Bob again. Do you watch the show Parks and Rec?
Speaker 1:No, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, there is, uh, there's like this one dumb episode where these two uh, let's just say less than stellar, uh, employees from the um, uh, uh, like fishing game or like you know whoever goes and gets, like you know the stray animals or whatever, and they get fired and they both show up to like the interview for like the same job, but they don't like realize like oh, this is the same job oh, we're in the same place uh and the worst part is we're Like, yeah, you're rehired.
Speaker 2:You've been in the industry a while.
Speaker 1:How has the industry changed in your point of view over the past? Let's just even say 15 years, 20 years. You know, technology is, of course, the biggest change on the things that we can do and those aren't always necessarily great from an operational standpoint. Right, We've gotten all this technology. And you know, when I was a cook or a chef or a sous chef, you know I could place orders until midnight or 2 am or something you know. Now our chef here, you know he's got to have his orders in by four o'clock in the afternoon. I'm like, oh, thank God for technology. Yeah, those things are challenging. And then there's an expectation, especially in clubs, with your membership, right, because they want you to continue to grow and change with the times. Right, because they want you to continue to grow and change with the times. And then you've got to figure out, you know, the financials of that and sometimes that doesn't always translate in the board meeting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's a question, and I think I'm going to phrase it right, Don't take it the wrong way. You went from chef to GM. Now you're a GM at a club. Do you see that as a demotion? Like, how do you, you know, because I think different people take it, take different things, certain ways. So to you, is it a strategic move? What sort of move was that? And what sort of feeling is that? And like, is there any like? So is that a, I guess, demotion to say which I don't know if that's the right way to put it, but like you know, going in that sort of like realm.
Speaker 1:It's 100% percent accurate, right. So one there's no, there's no bad career moves right. They're all learning experiences and so part of it and I'll start by saying Shreveport Club was a city club, so I've been out of country clubs for six years basically before coming back into the country club world. So taking this role gave me an opportunity to get back in reacquaint myself with the sports aspect of it and you know that was very important. But I was also hired on here. Uh, gary Shetler, who's our general manager, has been here 40 years. He's retiring in June, so my hiring was a succession plan four zero four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, he's a unicorn. Four zero, yeah, mike. What did the dude open?
Speaker 1:the club. Did he build it with his bare hands? Essentially because he started in 84 as the superintendent and he was in that role for 25 years and then he's been gm for the last 15. For 25 years and then he's been GM for the last 15. Damn. So this gave me an opportunity to work with him, pick his brain, really get some institutional knowledge and hopefully expedite the success that I could have here at the club.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. Yeah, and I only ask that because I'm having like another similar conversation with somebody else I'm recording in a few weeks and when this airs out I don't know how it's all going to come out, but it's just like a similar thing. Just because you know it was's not an up and down. I don't, I don't see it as a demotion. I'm, I'm, I'm the same way. It's like you know, everything's a learning experience, but always interested to see how people feel and interpret and take different things and situations and stuff. But no, oh, gotcha.
Speaker 1:We only have, you know, 5,300 clubs or whatever it is in the States, right? So there's only 5,300 jobs. So I mean something has to be available. It has to be the right fit. If you take something that's not the right fit for you, it's going to be evident pretty clearly, pretty immediately to you, to the board, to the membership. So you got to find the right fit. You have to find the right pieces because you know a lot of. That's why we have such a short tenureship as a GM. It's because sometimes we're just trying to take the role instead of maybe finding the fit.
Speaker 2:Which is sometimes hard to do, Because it's got to be difficult, especially when there's clubs or places where they're like oh we would love to have you, but you just know you're like, I know you'd love to have me, but it not a good fit, Like, I just don't think it'll be good, and sometimes that's gotta be hard.
Speaker 1:Um well, it's a challenge You're, you're sometimes faced with. You know, what do I do? You know, you, you gotta take care of your family. You gotta do this. You you maybe have, you know, come to a different path with your board and they're going in a direction that you don't want to go in. So you're trying to figure out a whole slew of things at one time and you don't always have all the time in the world to make the right decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, gotcha. So what's on the horizon for you in the club? Tell us a little bit more about the club. How many members you have, how long has the club been around? Give us some scoop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Evansville Country Club has been here since 1900. So we are going to have our 125th anniversary next year. Wow, the club just finished a major renovation on the golf course. A lot of that was done, completed June of last year. Course is phenomenal. What did you guys do to it? They reworked a lot of the greens, moved over to pure distinction, a hybrid turf for the greens, redid some of the fairways, the bunkers. It was about $7 million. Bo Welling was the architect. But I mean, we've had nothing but rave reviews and it's only going to get better as the turf sits.
Speaker 2:Jeff Sexton, are you going to do anything with the irrigation and stuff?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure that some of that was done. We still have work to do. For sure, you know clubs are always a work in progress. You know the next project is going to be halfway house. We'll have some clubhouse work budgeted here coming up in the next few years and then we'll be right back on the course again. But we also put in new pickleball courts, redid tennis. So there's so many positive things going on and the membership is fantastic.
Speaker 2:How many memberships do you have? 750. Are you on a wait list?
Speaker 1:We're right there. So that's always a blurry line on yes or no, because you want to be able to accommodate folks, but you also don't want to overcrowd the facilities.
Speaker 2:Right, which is why I asked I was like 700?. I was like what's your capacity? But you also don't want to overcrowd the facilities, Right, which is why I asked I was like 700.
Speaker 1:I was like what's your capacity? You must be fairly close, Maybe. I was like I don't know how big your place is. Well, I mean, our golfing memberships are down around 410, you know. So we're pretty close to full on our golf memberships.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, Gotcha. What's your demographic life like of your club in terms of like age? A little bit younger, a little bit older. What's Evansville?
Speaker 1:like yeah, I think, like most clubs in the last 15 years, definitely trending, you know, downward in age, so we're getting younger, a lot more families. You know we have a kids club for child care I think a lot of clubs have gone to that over the last 10 years or so but definitely trending towards the younger side, younger families, growing families. So we need to expand how we provide service for those folks, because it's different, you know, how we provide service for those folks, cause it's different.
Speaker 2:You're talking to a club manager who's I don't know mid thirties, going through their career. What's, what's some words, word, words to the wise for them.
Speaker 1:Oh, you ever see heartbreak Ridge? Just like he said. They're improvise, adapt, overcome. You ever see Heartbreak Ridge, clint Eastwood? I have not. Oh, just like he said there improvise, adapt, overcome. You know you have to be flexible in this business, so you have to be prepared for anything that can be thrown your way, because it's going to happen and probably several times on the same event or outing or whatever it may be. So I think the most important thing is having a flexibility to be able to change and adapt not only to the times but also to the moment, because something is always happening that is going to throw a wrench into the works and the better prepared you are to handle that, better off you're going to be.
Speaker 2:My man. I know you have a wonderful ladies events, a golf event starting soon, so thank you so much for your time, sir. Be the first of many, I'm sure, but you have a fantastic day and I appreciate you jumping on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:You have a great day and I appreciate you jumping on with us. You too, Denny I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:You have a great day. Hope you all enjoyed that. Thank you for coming on the show. Ralph, always love when we chat and our paths cross. If you're enjoying the content. One thing you can do to help us is like share, subscribe, give a rating, give a review on any of the platforms that you are consuming the content on means the absolute world. You can sign up for our newsletter. Head on over to privateclubradiocom. Until then, catch you on the flippity flip.
