359: UK & US Golf Club Experiences w/ Leighton Walker

How do golf clubs in the UK and the US stack up against each other? 
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Leighton Walker, General Manager of Cirencester Golf Club in England and co-host of Golf Talk UK, as he shares his expert insights on the contrasting landscapes of golf club experiences on both sides of the pond. 
We'll uncover why UK clubs often boast lower membership fees and joining costs, making golf more accessible to a broader audience, including youngsters. 
Meanwhile, in the US, the bar is set high with premium service quality expectations. This episode promises to enrich your understanding of the cultural and operational differences defining the private golf and country club scene.

The value of career diversity takes center stage as we discuss the unique growth paths within the golf club management industry. From small clubs in Australia to member-owned clubs in the UK, gaining experience across diverse roles can significantly enhance one's adaptability and expertise. 
Leighton shares his personal journey, transitioning from part-time management to growing a successful podcast brand, and highlights the critical importance of mentoring and training in shaping a fulfilling career. We also demystify the role of a Secretary Manager and its varying responsibilities across different countries, providing a comprehensive view of this pivotal position.

Inclusivity and modern trends in golf club management are also key topics in this episode. Leighton talks about innovative ideas to boost member engagement, such as offering free lessons by PGA professionals, and emphasizes the significance of incremental improvements in club services. Learn about the challenges of measuring these initiatives' impact and how they can lead to greater member satisfaction and retention. Finally, we delve into the evolution of our own golf industry podcast, a valuable platform for learning and networking, with exciting plans to expand into live discussions and interactive formats. Don't miss out on these insights and more in our latest episode!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

What's been, if you can, maybe some differences between UK clubs and clubs here in the States.

Speaker 2: 0:08

I think number one is probably scale and cost and sort of the finances involved. I think golf is an incredibly affordable sport in the UK. I'm just talking about golf here. Obviously, city clubs and yacht clubs and things tend to operate in a slightly different sphere, don't they? But you know, just looking at golf, for example, you know most clubs over here average between 12 to 1500 pounds a year to join um. You know they might have a joining fee of a thousand pounds or something um, and that is the reality.

Speaker 2: 0:42

Golf is very accessible here, don't you're wrong? You can go and find clubs where you can spend underground to join and and tens of thousands a year, but they're few and far between um and that's much more the norm in in the states, I I guess. So golf's very accessible here. There's probably no reason why, you know, anyone can't play golf and have a membership somewhere. Even for youngsters it's very affordable to get into the game. So that's one of the main differences. But I think the other one is probably around service levels. There's probably much bigger expectation around quality of the service that you receive at golf clubs in the States, and having been over there multiple times myself and sort of experienced some of that is, I think, firstly, americans do service very well as a general rule. Um, I think the uk, we're a little bit behind. We're catching up, you know. I think there is more emphasis on on service now. There's many issues why that's probably not quite as good as it.

Speaker 1: 1:37

Hey, everyone welcome back to the private club radio show podcast, the industry source for news, trends and conversations all in the world of private golf and country clubs. If you are brand new to the industry, welcome. We are excited you're here to come learn about the world of private golf and country clubs. If you are an existing professional, consummate professional, welcome back. Thank you all for being here. There's the show. We go over all topics related to private golf and country clubs, from leadership, management, food and beverage, governance, marketing, branding, the whole works. We switch it up. We have a good time.

Speaker 1: 2:14

This episode I am chatting with a friend of mine and friend of the channel, leighton Walker, who's the GM of the Siren Sester Golf Club in England and also co-host of Golf Talk UK podcast. So we have a really fun chat about what's going on overseas across the pond, the differences, the comparisons between clubs, what's going on with him and his club and just getting some insights from another person, another perspective, from a different part of the world, from a different country. So if you haven't checked out Golf Talk UK already, please go check it out. Great show, fun podcast. Before we go on to this episode, I just want to give a quick thanks to our show partners. We have Concert Golf Partners boutique owner-operator of private golf and country clubs nationwide. If you or your club is looking for some recapitalization, maybe a friend's club and maybe it's not even recapitalization, maybe it's just your club might just think it's time to not be member owned anymore, want to take that off the plate and just have somebody come in and make sure the club stays nice, successful and moving forward and growing. Head on over to concert golf partner. Set up a confidential phone call with Peter Nannula and see if you guys are a good fit. We also have our friends Kenneth slash, member Vetting. We have Paul Dank. We have some tremendous episodes here on the channel as well from Concert Golf Partners. We have our episodes of board chats. We also have some episodes of Member Vetting here on the show. So if you or your club is looking to update, upgrade, enhance and really do some good, fact-based member vetting to vet the applicants who are coming in, go check out membervettingcom. Set up a call with Paul Dank.

Speaker 1: 3:56

We go over some crazy things and the stuff that they find and most people are good, but the stuff that they can find and do find mind-blowing and I think it's important to take that extra step and really make sure the people who are coming into our clubs are who they say they are, because the last thing we want is a bad egg in there. You got to check out Golf Life Navigators. If you don't know who they are, check them out. Zillow meets eHarmony one of the coolest programs out there. They match up golf enthusiasts, people who enjoy the game, with their dream club and their dream house and their dream community. They have an amazing algorithm, answer a bunch of questions and spits out to them where their dream club is. If your club would like to be a part of this amazing program, head on over to golflifenavigatorscom, check them out, set up a call and see if you're a good fit.

Speaker 1: 4:50

That's really what all this is about. And when I talk about our show partners, it's about just reaching out. It's about having a conversation and seeing if you're a good fit, because everyone's not a great fit for everyone. So if you're at least the least bit, least bit interested, reach out to our show partners they're all really good people and mention you heard about them or you're. You're reaching out because of private club radio. That also means a lot. And hey, real quick. If you're thinking, dan, how can we support you, which you're probably not. But if you're looking for one of the most fun member events nights your club is going to have, I'm your guy. Head on over to DennyCorbycom.

Speaker 1: 5:27

I have the Denny Corby experience. It's an interactive, magic, mind reading and comedy show. Tons of crowd work. Most of the show is crowd work. I love the interaction, the banter. It's a full fun evening. It's not just a show. There's so much that goes on to it. If you're interested in learning more or want to chat, head over to dannycorbycom. Enough of that Private Club Radio. Let's welcome from the good old UK our friend Leighton Walker. How do you pronounce the club?

Speaker 2: 5:53

Siren-cester. Yeah, you wouldn't think that looking at it, would you? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 5:58

It's one of these weird things. Oh, I can see it now. I can see it now.

Speaker 2: 6:00

It's one of these weird things with the UK or England. There's a lot of towns with the C-E-S-T-E-R on the ancestor, but a lot of them you drop the E, so it's like Leicester and Worcester and Gloucester and stuff, but Cirencester is Cirencester. So you know, you hear people say Cirenster, is that Cirenster? No Cirencester, sorry, sorry, no, sorry, sorry. Um, we just like to bamboozle people over here.

Speaker 1: 6:29

Yeah, is that new word, people?

Speaker 2: 6:35

write that one down, bamboozle. I think that's b-a-m-b-a-m-b.

Speaker 1: 6:40

Silent.

Speaker 2: 6:41

E yeah, yes there's a town called bamboozle-ster, yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:50

All right, we're happy to have you here. I have a new friend. Very fun guest all the way from the UK, from Siren Sester, Did I?

Speaker 2: 7:00

say that right, liam Brilliant, that was seamless. No one will know that. You said that seven times before we came on.

Speaker 1: 7:10

From Golf Talk UK podcast from over the pond, leighton Walker How's it going? I'm very good, denny, and yourself Good to see you. I'm doing better now that I'm chatting with you. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 7:23

Yeah, this is a good one International today, hey.

Speaker 1: 7:26

It is, it is. This is a big deal. I think you are my second international guest, okay, okay, where was the first, john McCormick?

Speaker 2: 7:36

So you are number two Second is okay. Second is okay, I'll take it.

Speaker 1: 7:40

Hey, we only just started becoming better friends, so if we were better friends before, it would have been maybe a little different. No, I'm kidding, yeah, but no, I'm happy to have you on. Thank you, because I thought this would be a really fun discussion on A. I think your history is cool because you've worked almost every rank in a club, because you've worked almost every rank in a club Like.

Speaker 1: 8:08

You've done a bunch of ranks and I always appreciate that. I always think that it makes for, I think, a better like life story as well, as it gives you so much knowledge and experience that you can't fake Like it's hard for people and employees to BS you because you've done so much and been a part of it. No one can be like oh, x, y and Z, it's like I've been there, done that. I don't think so. So, yeah, what's what's so? Give us, maybe take 30 seconds. What is your story?

Speaker 2: 8:42

well, yeah, no, you make a really good point there and I have, uh, not have. I just worked in different types of clubs, in different sort of roles within clubs. I've worked within two different countries as well. So, uh, starting originally in australia, where I'm originally from, and maybe, uh, to a finely tuned american ear, you might pick up a bit of both in there. I think I have this kind of weird hybrid accent now which is half British, half Australian, and that's 18 and a half years of being in the UK now, so I've spent over a third of my life here, so I'm getting more and more British as time goes by. But yeah, I look, I've worked at clubs.

Speaker 2: 9:21

In a small club in Australia. That's where I started my golf management career. Then, when I moved over to the UK, went into a proprietary so a company owned club, if you like. That was in a deputy management role and then eventually got my own GM role at a club and that was back into the member world and I've pretty much stayed in the member world since. I had a short stint for a while earlier on as a membership manager at a club as well. So that was really cool to see that side of things. And I kind of say to anyone coming into the industry these days, the more you can expose yourself to different clubs, different roles, different demographics and company-owned versus members clubs and that kind of thing, it just it does widen your experience and you're absolutely right, you get to a point where you've kind of seen everything really, and that's valuable.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Well, I think it helps you figure out where you fit best in what you do well and where you fit best in things.

Speaker 1: 10:20

And you know opposite, but the same, you know coming things. And you know opposite, but the same, you know, coming from my point of view. In the entertainment world, it's, you know, people always go, oh, I want to do those types of shows. It's like, well, go try every show, go do every type you know, because there's the big thing in, like you know, entertainment's like, oh, I want to do corporate, but it's I have, you know, where you, you might not be the best for corporate. There are some people who would absolutely kill it doing kids shows and make more than the corporate guys, but it's like, you know, they wouldn't have known that until they've tried and done different things. So same with here. It's about trying out different things because you might, you might not like member owned clubs, you might like privately owned clubs, or you know, owner operators, or you might like you might not like a GM position, you might just really like the AGM spot but it's about just going out there and finding different things and working with different people.

Speaker 2: 11:09

Yeah, no, I think you're right. Until you do that, you don't really know ultimately where you want to end up. And I'm probably in an interesting place now where I'm actually a part-time golf club manager and then the rest of the time I'm here doing a podcast and I'm looking to sort of grow that brand. So I've moved into a point in my career 20 plus years in that I'm looking for different ways of even doing management. You know, and look, that's not for everyone. Most people probably are more suited to the nine to five you know, five days a week role. You know if you can stick somewhere for 10 years and build up a good history and that kind of thing, and I completely understand that.

Speaker 2: 11:48

I think I probably just worked out for myself that I enjoy that little bit of variety. I think I've sort of reached that point in my career where I'm trying to put some of the knowledge I've gained to different use, whether that's mentoring staff and other people, whether it's trying to give back a little bit through educating and informing people through a podcast. You know, hopefully, going forward, I'll probably do a little bit more presenting and training at conferences, seminars, that type of thing. So yeah, it's just a little different for me now, but I've probably worked that out through going through all those different types of roles, like you've said said, and I think sometimes the danger as well, as if you niche too much into one area, I think you can, you perhaps just narrowing your skill set a little bit and, and ultimately you know, the more you can just pull in from different areas, I think it serves you better going forward, yeah I think niching is good.

Speaker 1: 12:39

Once you have that base and that established, you can now niche. It's 20 years You've been in, so I'm going over my notes as well. In Australia and the UK I've noticed you have Secretary Manager. What is that title? Is Secretary there the same as it is here?

Speaker 2: 13:05

no, probably not. Um, yeah, it's an interesting one that it's quite. It's quite a an interesting discussion. And there's still clubs that operate now with a secretary and effectively it's their general manager, if we look at it like that ceo, general manager, um, but there's certain types of clubs that almost look at it a little bit more along those lines. So you're there to sort of facilitate the membership. You're not necessarily there to lead and set strategy and all that sort of thing. It's almost getting on and delivering a certain type of role. And they might be clubs that are very, very member focused. You know, it's all about the golf, it's all about the membership. There's not a lot of other activity going on. You haven't got large food and beverage operations and all the bells and whistles that come with some clubs. So that role does exist.

Speaker 2: 13:52

But I think it pretty much goes back to more historical times where quite often clubs operated with an honorary secretary. So certainly in Australia and the UK that was the case for a long time. The secretary didn't get paid. They'd almost be like a manager but didn't really get paid. It was a voluntary role. That's obviously changed in the last 30, 40 years where now you know, it's a very professional industry and you've got people coming into the industry that are educated and trained and have developed in golf and outside of golf and it's just a very, very different world now. So sometimes that secretary manager title is less and less. We're seeing it now, but that's kind of the history of it really.

Speaker 1: 14:39

What's been, if you can, maybe some differences between UK clubs and clubs here in the States.

Speaker 2: 14:48

I think number one is probably scale and cost and sort of the finances involved. I think golf is an incredibly affordable sport in the UK. I'm just talking about golf here. Obviously, city clubs and yacht clubs and things tend to operate in a slightly different sphere, don't they? But you know, just looking at golf, for example, most clubs over here average between £1,200 to £1,500 a year to join. You know they might have a joining fee of £1,000 or something, and that is the reality.

Speaker 2: 15:23

Golf is very accessible here, don't you're wrong? You can go and find clubs where you can spend underground to join and and tens of thousands a year, but they're few and far between um and that's much more the norm in in the states, I I guess. So golf's very accessible here. There's probably no reason why, you know, anyone can't play golf and have a membership somewhere. Even for youngsters it's very affordable to get into the game. So that's one of the main differences. But I think the other one is probably around service levels. There's probably much bigger expectation around quality of the service that you receive at golf clubs in in the states and having been over there multiple times myself and sort of experienced some of that is, I think, firstly, americans do service very well, as, as a general rule. Um, I think the uk, we're a little bit behind. We're catching up, you know. I think there is more emphasis on on service now. There's many issues why that's probably not quite as good as it should can you?

Speaker 1: 16:19

can you go into that a little bit? What do you mean? The service difference, like so, was it just like here's your clubs go ahead?

Speaker 2: 16:25

I don't know if I'd go that far, but yeah, yeah no, it is. Um, look, don't, don't get me wrong. By by no means is it bad service we get here, but I think sometimes, with paying a much higher price for something and the scale of everything being much higher, that demands a higher level of service. I think it's probably quite controversial I might get kicked out of the country for this when we finish the interview.

Speaker 2: 16:56

But I do think the UK just probably need to relax a little bit more around service. I do think the UK just probably need to relax a little bit more around service and it's just trying to provide that highest level of service that you can, but in a relaxed way. And, being from Australia, every time I go back there I go back and it's. It is a different type of service. You walk into a shop or a bar or a restaurant or something and it's very relaxed. People are very genuine, they want to know.

Speaker 2: 17:22

You know how are you going. They'll ask you and you know they just instantly start up a conversation and I guess you just want that sort of more relaxed service a little bit more over here and you can probably tell me a little bit more about what it's like in the States, but that would certainly be a difference and that flows across all areas of the club. You know, and we don't have a lot of the elements of service that you have there, we don't have a bag drop area at many of our clubs and you know we don't have caddies, we don't have all that, that stuff that goes around it. So again, that's all creating.

Speaker 2: 17:56

you guys aren't lazy, we get it okay no, we're just angry people carrying our golf clubs around the golf course, having to make decisions for ourselves on what club to hit, and that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 18:10

It's terrible, terrible so I don't know I think they're probably two of the main, the main differences really, but I guess if you want to touch on similarities then there's a lot. You know, at the end of the day, most clubs are providing a service for their members who are paying a fee for that, for that service. And you know, I think most clubs, and particularly golf clubs, have seen a real boom since COVID. You know, there's no doubt that's had a really positive impact on finances and member numbers. I think on the back of that now clubs are in a much stronger position. We're seeing a lot more investment, a lot of people spending money on their clubhouses, on their golf courses. We've just put Top Tracer on our driving range and we're starting to see a little bit more of that happen, investing in that technology.

Speaker 1: 19:01

So there's a lot of similarities.

Speaker 2: 19:03

Yeah, people probably demanding a bit more around amenities. I don't think it's. At some places it's good enough just to have a really good golf course or tennis courts or whatever it may be, but I think more and more people are demanding a little bit more and what they might get out there in wider society. Really, labour's been a bit of an issue. It's probably got a little bit better of late, but for a long time, especially on the back of covid, you know, there was some real issues around labor and hospitality and and even retail and things like that. So, um, yeah, there's, there's quite a lot of similarities.

Speaker 2: 19:37

I think we struggle probably a bit like you guys do in in the management world to get on top of the work-life balance. I think sometimes that can be tricky and you know, just trying to make sure that you're giving everything you've got to your job but equally to your family and your home life, and that sort of thing can be a little bit of a challenge. But I think certainly in Europe there's a bit more of an influence these days around a bit more work-life balance. I think they've got it right a bit more over there. Anyway, when you look at some of the Mediterranean countries and you know 35-hour working weeks, get your head around that one, denny.

Speaker 1: 20:12

Yeah, I think some of them have got down to four days now.

Speaker 2: 20:15

And that's you know. I think that's just starting to flow on a little bit and I think some people are starting to realize, hey, you know there's a bit more to life than than just working.

Speaker 1: 20:29

you know you gotta have a bit of a life outside of it as well. So I was chatting with uh kathy collins. She's the uh executive director of the wisconsin chapter cmaa and the chicago chapter cmaa and when chatting with her she mentioned that being one of the things is like work-life balance. You know the stigma is oh, you work in hospitality in a club, you're never going to see your family, it's going to be 80 hour weeks, it's going to be all this and you're still going to work. There's still going to be times where it's going to be hectic, but it's calming down a lot. You know.

Speaker 2: 21:05

I think clubs, people, the everyone is seeing okay, there needs to be a give, there has to be this, you know, there has to be a balance somewhere. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely, and and like I say, I think sometimes trends come and go a little bit, don't they? And I think the 90s and the 2000s was a was an interesting time, wasn't it? I think it was all about go, go, go and you know shows like the apprentice coming out and things like that, where it was all you had to be hard and you had to work. You know 100 hours a week and that was you know, that was admirable and brave and you should be rewarded for it. You know, and I don't know, I think we're sort of looking at things saying if you build effective teams around you and you've got efficiency within your clubs and your business, then you shouldn't need to be there for 70, 80 hours a week, and there is that opportunity to try and redress that life balance a little bit. So, I think, circle back to.

Speaker 1: 21:51

You know what we talked about in the beginning, which is having all these experiences, being able to try different things, go work at different places. We're all different and there's people who might love. There's people who might love, there's people who love work. The people who love, you know, they don't care 60, 78, they love what they do, they want to. You know, maybe they may or may not have families, it doesn't matter, but that's their thing. And there's clubs who, I'm sure, want somebody there, who want, who wants them to be seen all day, every day, and going back, those people should that club and those people should find each other because they'd be the best fit. Like, like, find those people. Like if the club, if you want someone there, there's someone out there, you just got to find them. Um, so, like, there's, there's nothing wrong with wanting to work, it's just find those people, you know. So I think it's just finding your place that's right.

Speaker 2: 22:35

It's horses for courses, isn't it? And and I think more and more um is that a british saying as well?

Speaker 1: 22:41

that was so good.

Speaker 2: 22:42

That was so good um, yeah, I think you're right. Coming back full circuit, what we were saying at the start it's find what, what works for you. And and I've talked quite a few recruitment agents on on the show and I'm sure you you probably have as well and and the thing that keeps coming out all the time is find that right fit for you. But also it's got to be the right fit for the golf club. So, yeah, if they want someone there 80 hours a week and and you got someone there just you know, willing to give that, then that might be might well be a good fit. But if you've got someone only wanting to work 50 hours they've got a young family and a life outside well, somewhere along the line that's going to break, isn't it so?

Speaker 2: 23:21

I think you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1: 23:22

I was just just chatting, or just well, I recorded I was. I was editing it this morning, so I don't know when it's all going to come out, but it was um talking about that. You know, finding that fit and making sure that people in the you know the right, the right seats on the bus, you know the energy bus book, you know it's, you know the right seats and the right bus and the right place and all of that, and you know, and and it's, and it's okay. When you realize, hey, this might not be the best, and everyone just goes like, hey, I think this is not good. We should probably maybe try to figure out a way to either fix it or get somebody else in who is a good fit.

Speaker 2: 23:54

But hey, this is not um yeah, yeah, no, no, it's interesting and I like I said I'm sure this that this trend will sort of continue for a little bit in terms of things just softening on that front, certainly in the UK anyway, I can't speak for, can't speak for the States, but it's probably a good thing.

Speaker 1: 24:10

So, being in the being in the industry for 20 years, so many different positions, bunch of different clubs, what have been some of your biggest takeaways and learning experiences?

Speaker 2: 24:22

You know what. That's probably one of them. You know we've we've talked about it there, you know it's it's finding that right fit. But I think I've also um, we almost sort of touched on this earlier, but I've probably learned what makes me tick a little bit and how, how I can perhaps help others in the industry a little bit more. Now, my my role now, I think I said I'm three days a week there, part, part time, which is unique. That is not normal. It's the way we set it up from the start.

Speaker 2: 24:49

But my assistant manager, he's a professional PGA pro. He wanted to get into the management side of things. So four and a half years ago when I started, we developed a plan where, effectively, I'd sort of develop him and bring him along. Developed a plan where, effectively, I'd sort of develop him and bring him along. And you know, one day he'll either take over for me and kick me out, or he might decide to go and spread his wings somewhere else and find a club that that suits him and and that's great. And if he does that, perhaps we'll get someone else. We'll do it again. And you know, I kind of in that place now where I sort of more interested in developing people than myself necessarily. So, and I think that's come about again through that learning and knowing what makes me tick and knowing where I can perhaps have the most value. And my role now is really interesting because I'm sort of more involved in sort of delivery of projects and a bit more of the strategic side and the finances and that kind of thing and that's allowing my assistant manager to get on and do the day-to-day operational side of things. So, um, yeah, that's been good. That's that's. You know probably really what I, what I've learned.

Speaker 2: 25:56

And then I've learned that I like to do some stuff outside of managing golf clubs, you know, and that that's where the podcast came into play and and that was probably about five years ago, four and a half five years ago that concept hatched and it was largely on the back of Gabe Aloisi, who everyone listening to this will probably be aware of, and we sort of got chatting and we said, oh, there's a bit of a niche for this or a gap in the UK market for delivering information to people working in the golf or club industry, golf industry and we sort of just said, right, let's do it. And there was another chap called Eddie Bullock, who I had already known and Gabe already had contact with and we got him in as well and he was really keen to come on board. So it's nice.

Speaker 2: 26:44

We've got a dynamic of two of us, you know, delivering the show. We split interviews and sometimes we'll do an interview together and um, and he's a, he's a golf consultant and has been in the industry for many years, used to be the uh gm at woburn, which is quite a big club on the outskirts of london sort of 54 whole venues. So his, his experience and history in the industry is immense really. So it's great being alongside him and there's, I guess, a little bit of a different dynamic between the two of us, but that coming together creates a nice little blend really. But yeah, the podcast has been great and it's probably a really good way for me to learn. You know, I quite often find myself and you probably find this as well you sit there just taking notes, sometimes thinking, all right, I'm gonna implement that at my own club.

Speaker 2: 27:31

Oh, that's a piece of gold, I'll write that down, you know, and it's that's, that's the way it's kind of gone, and it also develops your network. You're talking to really, really good people out there all the time and and um, it's been great from that point of view. So that's where I'm just now looking to to perhaps grow it and move it in some slightly different directions and actually do a little bit more training presenting we might. One thing I'd like to do is get out and perhaps do some sort of live podcasts uh, you know round table discussions on a stage and things like that, and perhaps that can be recorded and turn into a podcast. You know, get a, get a couple of experts in on a topic and explore kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 28:07

So yeah we'll see where that goes, but that's perhaps the next evolution in podcasts, but also what I'm doing, I suppose.

Speaker 1: 28:17

What have you learned from doing the podcast? Is there things in the golf world in terms of of management, anything? Is there things that you've learned that I don't know if that, I don't know what I'm trying to say there oh, what have I learned doing the podcast? Yeah, yeah, I was just like has there been anything you've like has? Has that brought up? Like? Has that like what? What's the learning experience been like, starting and having a podcast?

Speaker 2: 28:45

yeah, I, I think I mean you do there's, there's no doubt you, you know, every interview I do, I'll, you'll take something away and that's we've covered pretty much about every topic now you could. So I have, I think, probably one of the things maybe not, maybe not so much learned, but it's uncovered a little bit, and I think we really need to explore a bit more and and improve in our industry is around inclusivity and and, uh, you know some of the issues there. You know we need more women in golf, and I don't just mean in, uh, playing golf, I mean in clubs, um, and this is probably the case for city clubs and all other clubs as well that we need more representation from women. I think club life probably doesn't do brilliantly from an ethnic and minority inclusion point of view as well, and so a few issues like that that I perhaps wasn't quite as aware of or on top of, and they've sort of come to light.

Speaker 2: 29:46

But I think it's just like, like I say, it's just those little bits and and probably the further you get on in your career, you're not doing the big learning so much, because you've probably done that earlier in your, your career I think it's those little, the little one percenters, we call them that. You, you know, you just pick it, pick something out and you you take it away and you apply that at your own club and little things like that. I was talking to someone the other day and they were talking about a club.

Speaker 2: 30:13

I think, they'd been to World Conference and they were at a seminar there and someone was talking about how they employed someone to literally just give free lessons to their members. You know, they literally employed a PGA pro and said you're going to be employed here to just go and free lessons to their members. You know, they literally employed a PGA pro and said you're going to be employed here to just go and give lessons to free members. And literally he'd go out to the putting grain in the driving range and promote himself basically on the back of the fact that you know you want a free lesson. Here you go, here's the time to book, let's get you in, you know. And the idea was it would just add value, you know, and okay, let's say it cost them 30, 40, 50 grand a year or whatever it was. You know they were probably measuring that in terms of the value it gave them on retention and you know member satisfaction and that kind of thing, and I thought brilliant, you know just what an amazing thing.

Speaker 1: 30:58

And maybe it's not like oh my God, yeah, that's to me. I'm thinking that's just, that's genius for someone like me who I cannot hit that ball. I try so hard I can't hit the ball. I'm almost there. But to me, like if my club was like oh hey, we have a PGA free lessons. That would bring me to the club so much more. And I just think it's not just getting them to the club, it's it's getting people out the door, because once they're at the club they're probably how much more likely to buy a drink, to have dinner, to. Oh, there's a free lesson. Oh, maybe I'll tell you know, I'll tell uh Layton to come, come join me at at at the club, since it's a free thing. You know he can they can help help.

Speaker 2: 31:49

Help him a little too, and now he and I are going to grab beers and a drink after. So yeah, I mean that's probably paying for himself. Yeah, and probably on the back of getting that free lesson. You realize you shouldn't just get one lesson, you need to get a series of six or something over the course of the season, and you know. So it's that engagement thing, isn't it? And um, I guess it's probably sometimes hard to measure the value of that in in numbers, but in terms of member satisfaction, and perhaps where they're measuring it is in their retention rate, on, on, on memberships.

Speaker 1: 32:10

But yeah, I mean, I can do. You know how? How do you differentiate your club? You know, I think that's easily one great way, cause now I'm going to talk about that to everybody. You know, oh, I'm going to go get a lesson. How much is the lesson? Oh, it's free, what, like that to everybody. You know, yeah, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go get a lesson.

Speaker 2: 32:32

How much is the lesson? Oh, it's free. What like? Yeah, yeah, yeah, someone there's to help, like from whatever time to whatever time, genius, so good, yeah, so literally I go away from that. I'm thinking right, I maybe can't employ that whole thing at my golf club, but perhaps there's a halfway house in there, you know, perhaps we have 10 hours a week or something, and we start there and we give away 10 free lessons a week and and and it builds, builds from there.

Speaker 2: 32:50

But I just think, um, yeah, that was, it's those little nuggets that you you're probably not expecting, and they just come to you and you, you take them and you run with them that is.

Speaker 1: 33:00

That is so good, that's a great one. Do you remember what club that was?

Speaker 2: 33:05

no, I couldn't tell you, I'd have to speak to my. It was a secondhand story that someone, someone, told me oh, and now how the story changes. Okay yeah, actually. No, it wasn't a free lesson, it was. Yeah, it was. It was half 10 off, I can't remember. Yeah, that's right now 10, 10 pros. They employed to deliver these lessons as well yeah, no, I it is legitimate. It is legitimate. I'll, um, I'll verify that with my source and and come back to you on that.

Speaker 2: 33:38

That's funny that's funny I mean, if, if, look, it's all relevant across. You know, I'd like to think there's quite a lot of people listen to oh, of course, private club radio, because it's club management, isn't it? You know, why would you, why would you not listen to it? So, yeah, hopefully, a lot of stuff we talk about I'm sure moves across the pond as well.

Speaker 1: 33:57

Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure uh lay, thank you so much for being on first of many.

Speaker 2: 34:07

Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, I think it's good just to just to check in and um, yeah, we quite often do. I've done podcasts with you know Australians before and Canadians and things. I think it's good to share that global information. I think sometimes you can get a little bit insular in your own market and just to um reach outside of. That sometimes is quite valuable and this lesson can be learned from everywhere. Isn't there, and that's the key.

Speaker 1: 34:33

And free ones if you're a member of the right club. Exactly.

Speaker 2: 34:39

I hope that club reaches out to you one day. They might be listening to this and we need to get in touch and tell them how it really worked. That would be good.

Speaker 1: 34:47

It's going to be hey, uh, they're big. Hey, I'm bill with xyz, club bill xyz. We're the ones who oh yeah, all right, brilliant.

Speaker 2: 34:58

No, this is no. This has been good fun. Good fun then. It's a um, it's nice relaxed chat, I like that. And uh, yeah, hopefully we will do it again. And, and I'll tell you what one thing would be nice. It'd be nice relaxed chat, I like that. And uh, yeah, hopefully we will do it again. And I'll tell you what one thing would be nice. It'd be nice to uh hook up over at the world conference next year. I'm just having a look at whether I can sneak over there next year.

Speaker 1: 35:14

Tamper as well as an episode, yep, yeah so you, yeah, you, you have to come, you have to come yeah, maybe there's something to uh stick in the diary, huh just just put it it on your calendar and just make it happen. Yeah, and how do you not come to Tampa? Gabe's there, I know the weather.

Speaker 2: 35:35

It's a really cool town, really cool town, tampa. When I visited Gabe there in November last year because in November in the UK not a very pleasant time of year, it's not not the best weather and I went over there and it literally was 29 degrees and sunny every day. He just woke up and it was just the same as yesterday and they're really really good. But good town, nice vibe about it and some good golf around there as well. But I'm sure that, yeah, that should be a good show next year.

Speaker 1: 36:02

Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did. If you're interested in learning more, go search for Golf Talk UK podcast. It's a great show, great podcast. If you haven't done so already, like, share, subscribe our show here, private Club Radio while you're at it. Cost nothing means the world. That's this week's episode. Thanks again to you all, the listeners, thanks to our show partners.