Tales from the Departure Lounge

#24 Vanessa Varvas (Pura Vida)

• Andy Plant & Nick Cuthbert • Season 2 • Episode 24

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Remember the 'Lonely Planet' days before the internet? All you needed was cash, a map and some resilience. Vanessa Varvas (UEL) tells the TFTDL flight crew how travel has made her a better person and a better leader. She takes us on a tour across Costa Rica, Serbia, Canada and China with a few car crashes on the way - and we learn to live Pura Vida, pure life.

A strong advocate for the power of diversity and inclusion in transforming lives and society, we discuss celebrating our differences, EDI and managing conflict. We also discuss why you shouldn't leave your toothbrush uncovered in your hotel bathroom and what to do in a bear attack. 

Final boarding call: San Jose, Costa Rica 

This episode is sponsored by Duolingo. Today ver 4500 institutions including Yale, Imperial and Trinity College Dublin have adopted the Duolingo English Test. If your university wants to join them then get in touch at www.englishtest.duolingo.com


Tales from the Departure Lounge is a Type Nine production for The PIE www.thepienews.com

Andy:

You're a farmer now?

Nick:

we tend to post on a Monday

Andy:

it's definitely good for you Getting your hands dirty

Nick:

Welcome to Tales from the Departure Lounge. This is a podcast about travel for business, for pleasure, or for study. My name's Nick and I'm joined by my co-pilot, Andy. And together we're gonna be talking to some amazing guests about how travel has transformed their. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the journey. Welcome to the podcast.

Andy:

Today we talked to Vanessa Varbus, the chief marketing officer at the University of East London. She used to work at Newcastle University in London, University of West London, Royal Holloway University, London. She's a London girl, but actually is from Canada,

Nick:

She is a very experienced traveller.

Andy:

75 plus countries she's been to. With backpacking, but also through work and also through working in China.

Nick:

She's been looking back through her photo collection and reminiscing, ready for this interview.

Andy:

Yeah. She talks a lot about EDI and that being a core pillar of her current employer,

Nick:

how travel had, let her appreciate different perspectives from different people and how that feeds into good leadership.

Andy:

She takes us on an amazing journey through Serbia, Costa Rica, has a couple of car crashes along the way,

Nick:

And she has a few questions for us.

Andy:

which is nice,

Nick:

Nice to be asked.

Andy:

She's yet another lovely Canadian who has traveled to 75 plus countries, loves the pure life, sees beauty in everything and knows how to survive a bear attack. Let's get some tales in the Departure Lounge from Vanessa Varbus.

Vanessa:

I will say what I've carried with me is their slogan, which is Piura Vida. Which means pure life. if you could pick up three peanuts all at once meant that you had entered the advanced state of chopstick use I do remember getting hit by a car and then a motorcycle, which then flipped over the car. and spiraling I did wake up one time in the middle of the night and there was a cockroach on my toothbrush.

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Andy:

Vanessa, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you on.

Vanessa:

Thanks Andy. It's brilliant to be here and just spending the time reflecting on, all the travels over all the years.

Andy:

our first section of the podcast is called Final Boarding Call, and it's where you get to tell our listeners where you would take them, if you could take them anywhere.

Vanessa:

Around the world, not, it was actually really interesting going back and reviewing. All the years of photos. Cause I had to spark some of those memories. I've been to about 75 countries across the world. Some of that is personal. Some of that is through my backpacking days to my professional, to then now in my kind of middle-aged when The one I keep returning to, and this is a recent, is Costa Rica. I actually met my parents a few years ago. They started going every year for a few weeks. Uh, so my partner and I joined, and then we've gone back now two, three times, because we do love it landed in, San Jose, the capital, and there was this brilliant little pockets within the city, that actually even remind me of of East London, which, you know, I, I love East London is the culture, the heritage, the grit, the, the street art, uh, the craft beers that I also quite like. And then it was just really easy to pick up a car and travel around the country and do everything from hiking, which I love being on the coast and on boats,,to, to just talking to people and enjoying really good food. I recommend to anybody looking for something where you want to get out in wildlife, see some great sites from volcanoes to,, different hikes definitely Costa Rica's on the top of my list.

Andy:

Yeah, I've heard a lot of great things about Costa Rica. I know, been myself. But I've never heard it compared to East London. Uh,

Vanessa:

It comes from your relative experience, doesn't it? But there was pockets in San Jose the craft beer scene that and street art that, I wasn't expecting.

Nick:

have an uncle who during the pandemic time he moved to Costa Rica. On some sort of farm conservation restaurant themed thing. So all my family have been going out to visit him. It is absolutely on my list to get there.

Vanessa:

It is definitely the wildlife, like seeing, I think it was stingrays to different types of monkeys to the birds just sitting outside your window. The people Were all about conservation and I mean there is the tourism and there's the ecotourism, but there's a balance between too much development and then really conserving the environment around you. And it was Little kids running down the beach cuz they saw a piece of trash and it's just part of their culture from the beginning when they go and they take care of their environment. Something that I would love us across the world and especially in London, maybe respect even a little bit more.

Andy:

Yeah, for sure.

Nick:

I think it's home to the sloth since, since sloths became cool.

Andy:

It's my spirit animal, Nick,

Nick:

What sleeps 20 hours a day

Vanessa:

I will say what I've carried with me is their slogan, which is Piura Vida. Which means pure life. And I would definitely agree that's something I carry with me and actually created a art piece in, in home around Piura Vida. So, environment, culture, nice work life balance.

Nick:

For people who don't know, it's literally a mountain range tropical jungle, that goes down to the Atlantic and the Caribbean on one side, and the Pacific on the other.

Vanessa:

It depends where you go. So it is almost like in the center you get these, this green paradise of multiple, different topographies. Some of is cloud forests, some of it is and mountains. And then where we were up in the north, it was the dry forest. We did I think a 15 kilometer hike and just walked right down and went straight into the ocean after we hit overheated. But definitely in the center there's green paradise of all different types of wildlife, I don't know if anybody has watched the reluctant traveler. I think it's on Apple tv, but there's an episode on Costa Rica and, he's not an outdoorsy person, but it is being in there from even insects to, really fluorescent frogs, snakes, in different birds. And the birds are gorgeous. They're absolutely just all different colors. And then we did do a river, cruise where you then get the crocodiles and a lot of different birds and, different types of wildlife.

Andy:

These places are almost like a Disney film, aren't they? Where you just walk outside and you look around and you're like, oh, there's a snake and

Vanessa:

Yeah.

Andy:

an eagle flying down and catching a fish out the water

Vanessa:

different to, here in Hyde Park everyone goes crazy over the squirrels.

Andy:

Although I saw Pelicans in Hyde Park, have you seen them?

Vanessa:

The pelicans and then even some of the parakeets, the bright green parakeets, I think someone released

Andy:

There's a myth, isn't there? They were released by Jimmy Hendrix Is there anywhere else in the world you feel like you want to live or could live? And is Costa Rica one of those places?

Vanessa:

It's something I've explored cause there is still part of me that's connected to Canada and my family's there and a lot of people are like, are you gonna live in London the rest of your life? And I don't think it's as black and white as that anymore. There is this thing, a little bit more flexibility of spending more time in countries, maybe not completely relocating. Um, but I think for me, the hub of London and why I've chosen London is the diversity and the authentic cultures in, in that. So you can experience. Nigerian food, like you had it in Nigeria, you know, pepper soup or like, you know, some of that ci one food from China. There was a time when the World Cup was going on and I tried to go to the different communities that were watching their country and even just hearing the different types of cheering you know, the way the Nigerians cheer versus the, um, the Bri way, like, you know, and then the Koreans way, you know, like it's just, it was, it was really funny actually in the different foods they served. And that's the gem of London for me is that diversity in being able to experience that but one of the things is looking, particularly in the dark wet winters, we started to be like, oh, is there a place? And, Costa Rica is definitely, on the list

Andy:

When you visit somewhere it's not the same If you live there, I just spent a week in the luau valley drinking amazing wine, eating amazing food. Everything was beautiful. But I know that if I live there, I'd be

Vanessa:

Yeah, it's different. Yeah.

Andy:

Yeah. Just a point of, public service What do you do when you're confronted by a bear or a moose or both at the same time?

Vanessa:

but I think don't run. I don't think you're supposed to run. I think that's what I was told. You do have a bear spray that you're supposed to spray if you're going into those areas. Moose are harmless. They're just big. so you just don't wanna get in their way.

Andy:

No moose spray.

Vanessa:

yeah. No. moose spray. They're all right. No,

Andy:

think you can run as long as you're with somebody else and they're slower. Slower

Vanessa:

they're slower. Yeah.

Andy:

Tell us a bit about, cycling around Serbia. That sounds amazing.

Vanessa:

I'd been twice to Serbia. One was for a wedding, so, my ex-partner at the time had, friends at that were Serbian so, we went down first for the wedding and then this. Couple that, that was there also then opened a cycling b and b on the den. So they said, come back and, we'll give you the tips on how to cycle across Serbia. and it opens Pandora's box because so then you're like, where else can we go? So I have done a lot of cycling in different countries, but Serbia I had no idea what to ex expect. One of the places that, we stayed at the beginning, which was in that cycling B b on the, was a mother and daughter who just cycled from Beijing. And would just had just entered Europe into Serbia was the first part. And I think they hadn't really talked to many English speaking people along the way, because I think we didn't say a word that night. It was all their stories and the things they had been through cycling, through Central Asia, through the places that they had, camp overnight, And I was just outstanding. But there was this route that goes along the den through Europe that's very easily, cycl and places to stay along the way, and also going all the way out through Turkey into the Black Sea, red Sea. They recommend together, there's this one great place up on this hill. I remember it was like 35 degrees. It was so hot. And we had been cycling for eight hours. and then at the end of the day, you were going up the mountain like this. And we got to the place where we thought, Hey, we're here, we're here, we're ready to bump down. And the guy said, oh no, this is not the place. It's well up there. It's right up at the top. And we went like this. And then when we went to turn around, he turned around with two beers and two, I can't remember what the shot was. I think as a poko or something like that. And just, it was just brilliant. And we just sat there overlooking the oube and, and had a fresh meal just cooked for you on the spot. It was amazing.

Andy:

I dunno about you, Nick, but we have a lot of active people on here, don't we? And I always feel so lazy with my holidays,

Vanessa:

I find as a nice separation to the really busy high pressure, job that you're in is taking out and looking at adventure

Nick:

This reminds me of the pre-internet travel days where you went somewhere without necessarily knowing where the end goal would be.

Vanessa:

No, you have to be uncomfortable with thinking, what if something's fully booked? And I have been in cases where you're like, uhoh,

Nick:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

where are we gonna sleep tonight? And something always crops up

Andy:

the Days of The Lonely Planet Guide

Vanessa:

Yeah.

Andy:

Ringing ahead to find out if you could get space in the only six numbers you had in this book that everybody else had the same numbers for.

Nick:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

that was actually when the question what do you always have to travel with? And I was starting to think oh my goodness, when we started it would've been the Lonely Planet Guide. Exactly what you said, cash and then a detailed map, right. And that's completely changed. As I was getting to the end of university, I've been saving to go off backpacking and with full support, from my parents. we did the Australia New Zealand campervan going on. And then we headed up to Southeast Asia but that's when SARS hit. So we had to change our plan and we headed across. To Europe, got a job in Greece, and you're starting to think, oh no, now do I have to get a full-time job and enter back into this? And I just really knew in my gut that I wasn't ready for that. And that's when I got the teaching qualification and then went. Back to China. In a city called Banjo. and lived there for a year. And that's when then I went to Sheffield and then entered my life in the uk, did my master's in Chinese, and then entered into the, international sector, which then started all that international travel Uh, I think that's where I met you, Andy. I think, I can't remember which country it was either in East Asia or then Africa.

Andy:

Yeah, I think it was probably Taiwan actually.

Vanessa:

Yeah, it was probably Taiwan. Yeah.

Andy:

What was when Joe like, back in the Wild West Days.

Vanessa:

I think that was in 2004, so well before, the Olympics and well before a lot of how they've opened up globally. I remember a lot of those things like mobile, digital phones just weren't there. It was a small city of 7 million at, at that time. But, and I remember getting on the plane and then getting to Hong Kong and then I missed my connection and I remember calling my mom and trying to call the university cause they were supposed to pick me out on the other side. but no one spoke any English and they just kept hanging up on me. So I was in Hong Kong not knowing if someone was gonna be there to pick me up or where to go. And I remember calling my mom and then she's like, are you okay? What's going on? And I had a little cry and then I got cut off and then they didn't hear from me for three weeks.

Andy:

Wow.

Vanessa:

And bless, I, I arrived there probably 18 hours later than I was supposed to. And that poor person was still there waiting for me. In the middle of the night. There hadn't been a lot of tourism to when Joe at that time. So, really had to immerse herself into the culture, be bold, learn how to negotiate, and made some very good Chinese friends at that time. And, they had a few tests of when you became more of a local, one of them was. Obviously your chopstick skills. So if you could pick up three peanuts all at once meant that you had entered the advanced state of chopstick use. And the second area of the test was, crossing the road in China without traffic light. And I, and I do remember the WhatsApp, I didn't even know and I was, crossing the road. And I turned around to say, where did my friends go? And they were all on the other side clapping.

Andy:

You doing it whilst holding three peanuts in chopsticks just to.

Vanessa:

That's probably the extreme advanced version. Yeah. I came back a very different person from living in China.

Nick:

You mentioned SARS and what that experience was like. Tell us about that.

Vanessa:

It was kind of like, at the beginning of the pandemic here where you hear about it over there and so you're like, it's over there. it's fine. And it's not on your doorstep yet. It only becomes more and more real the closer it gets to your doorstep. We were traveling through Southeast Asia at that time on buses and trains and things like that. And it was quite nerve-wracking because it was just like that time post pandemic when you have booked a flight or public transport, but you still have to go for that test and everything could change your plans. We had to get, the testing, so you had to get you or temperature checked. They did all these different things. And it was a real culture shock for us going through Covid 19 where those things were immediately embedded in those East Asian cultures and without even a thought or discussion point.

Nick:

I remember, seeing people wearing masks, pre covid, because of SARS and thinking how alien it looked how paranoid it looked and the irony is they were ahead of us,

Vanessa:

Yeah. Or has, has mat suits.

Andy:

The next section of the podcast is called any laptops, liquids, or sharp objects. What do you have to take with you when you travel?

Vanessa:

It is definitely the phone now, so that's one of the chargers to go with it. I constantly have to call myself out of that to put your phone away and really listen and really just be there to engage.

Andy:

Sorry, what were you saying? I was on my phone.

Vanessa:

Definitely flip flops no matter if it's a cold. Country, hot country, it's flip flopped. Cause you just n never know when you're gonna need something like that. So there's a flip flop, definitely. And then a cover for your toothbrush.

Andy:

Why is that?

Vanessa:

There has been places where you've booked is very different to, what you thought you booked. And I did wake up one time in the middle of the night and there was a cockroach on my toothbrush. So, yeah. So, um, you're just like, well, that, that's now changed.

Andy:

Dig a little dance. You two fish. Yeah.

Vanessa:

So always have a cover for your toothbrush.

Andy:

I, uh, I saw a program and it was about cleaners in hotels, and it showed several occasions of cleaners taking people's toothbrushes and using them to clean around the sink and things like that. So since then, I, don't leave my toothbrush in the little cup in the bathroom. I zip it up into my wash bag,

Vanessa:

You just never know.

Andy:

You're very prepared. one of the, flip one of those things that I always forgot. and they are essential items. I used to have, a theory for international education partnerships called the Flip Flop Theory, which is the most successful international education partnerships are anywhere where you can wear flip flops. Um,

Nick:

That was your strategy.

Andy:

it was just a theory. It's got to be proven.

Nick:

Vanessa, have you struggled with any kind of ankle or foot related problems, maybe planter fasciitis we can trace this back to flip flop wearing.

Vanessa:

Yeah, indeed. I have, I have, but more from my running days. Some of the runs I did in all the different countries really is my memory of those countries because I, it forced me to look at, and I remember one actually was in Taipei, and I've been to Taipei like 10 times already. And I was like, I've gotta do a three hour run on this Saturday morning. What, how do I do that? And I just took the subway all the way to the end, and then you can run along the river all the way back in and it went through different towns. there was all these wild dogs. Villages that were right at the edge so that there was a lot of seafood coming in. I just saw a completely different side and then went through all these baseball diamonds and all these baseball games going on, and I was like, what's going on? Where have I come?

Andy:

Speaking of memorable experiences, um, tell us about your car crashes.

Vanessa:

Oh yeah, I, the one in Taiwan, um, this always happens on those days when you're desperate to get somewhere and kind of kip in for the night. It'd had been full on day. And then I can't remember what the reason was, but there was protests, outside of Taipei that blocked the train line. So they had to stop on the city before, and I was like, no. So I had to get off the train Then I was like, right, just get a taxi. So I hopped in this taxi and it was about an hour's drive then into Taipei. And I think this. A taxi driver was in a rush, let's just say. So he was bombing it, like just said, I was kind of okay. I, a little uncomfortable. There was no seat belts, uh, in the backseat at that time. So I tried to sit a little bit in the corner so you could hold onto both sides. and I was, I think I was closing my eyes and then I opened my eyes. I was entering this one intersection and I saw the lights go red. And I don't know if people know type paper, the, um, the roads. There'll be like three lanes going one way. And then you've got like the, I think the overground trains over top. So there's big pillars within the overground trains. And then there's the other three lanes of traffic going the opposite, right? So it's a big intersection. It's not just like one lane, one where you can see everything happening. So when he ran the red light, even in the first bit and the first three lanes, Start coming. So everyone stopped. It was a second three lanes because behind the pillar that I was, uh, uh, we're gonna crash cause nobody knows we're coming. So I scooted into the middle and I just hold on to both of the, um, cause it was gonna come from the side, uh, and, and held on. And I, I do remember getting hit by a car and then a motorcycle, which then flipped over the car. Um, and yeah, spiraling every, I was fine. I think I cracked my nose, but I was okay. So then stopped everything stopped, uh, taxi driver out. But I remember it just being so bizarre. Like I didn't know what was happening. Next thing I know I'm just being hurdled into another taxi. Just like kind of, handled, like almost just taken out. Take your suitcase and put in another taxi and sent off. So they just wanted to get rid of me, I think. So I'm in this other taxi, but I didn't even know, you know, hadn't talked to the person. And then the taxi, this one couldn't find my hotel. So I was driving around in circles for an hour trying to call the hotel to tell the taxi how to find it. I ended up circling around finally getting to the hotel About one in the morning.

Andy:

So you jumped your fair basically, is what you're telling us.

Vanessa:

I think so. I had no idea what happened. But then you're sitting there being like, what just happened?

Andy:

And what happens in that situation from a work perspective, you've been in a car crash, you've got back to your hotel, you're a little bit,, bruised and battered.

Vanessa:

It was eight hours behind. I called my land manager just saying, this is what's happened. But, some of those processes can't do anything about because they didn't gimme the chance. I probably would've given a record to the police. Like, you know, it's all those things. I didn't gimme a chance, I didn't know what was happening. And you're dazed, and so you just kind of, um, go with it because you're on your own and you don't wanna put yourself at risk as well. The sa exact same thing happened when it happened to me in China. We had just done this number of days hike through and then getting a taxi back to the next town. It was raining and he was whipping around like these mountainous roads and it was like a really sharp corner. And I was like, oh no, he's just going so fast and he's right in the middle. And sure enough, it was just a head-on collision. Um, and we were spiraling, we just, we were so lucky where we hit had, a much larger, um, what, what's that called? On the side of the road, like the bank? Cuz sometimes the mountain roads are right at the edge of the mountain as well. So we spiraled and we did that and the car was a cop car, which was also not, ideal. in that situation. And in the cop car. Came out much more people that were in the car than seat belts. So it was, a challenging situation because you're just like, uh oh, now it's gonna happen. We've witnessed something that we probably shouldn't have. And then this thing happens between the text and the police. And as we're standing there, because it was a, there was a truck that's coming whipping around, and I was standing, then I just saw everyone start running. I had my back to it and then this truck starts spidering and then completely takes out the car and the cop car.

Andy:

How are you still alive,

Vanessa:

yeah, we were just running down. I remember there was a kid, in their cards. So they were just picking up and running down the, the road. I just, you know, when you see that, you just start running. I didn't even know what was happening. And the same thing happened. Another taxi went by and they just put us in it and we were off. So you just like, what happened? The cops put us in the taxi and sent us off. Yeah.

Nick:

Wow.

Vanessa:

Oh, those are memories. You look back and you think about, oh my goodness, the stuff that I didn't tell my parents.

Andy:

So the next section of the podcast is called What's the purpose of Your Visit? maybe you'd like to explain how you've been transformed by travel.

Vanessa:

It was actually good to talk through, my journey in travel because it did make me think, why is it that I've had this desire from far very young and why is it that I've got into this career? Right. And I think I, I can say as a whole, that desire to travel has definitely made me, a better person. It's made me a more open person and it has really. Influenced who I've become now as a leader. I'm still growing in this space, but, going to Saudi Arabia and the challenges we had in one of the events, where the women were sectioned off and kicked out and then taken away. But some of those conversations actually with the fathers and the husbands and even the people, you know, cause it was Saudi Arabia woman as well, were just so inspiring and different to what I was expecting. And so those moments where you have this stereotype cuz of what you've read or how the media portrays and we're actually in a very dangerous time of media polarization and social media. And when, you look at the role of education in that, so when I started out as an international officer, I loved those years, where you had very clear focus on the strategies for different countries. And then as you've grown and come through the layers and now sitting on an executive board, that experience through travel and the role that we have in education that. we make an impact for the world,

Nick:

I'm really interested in this because you sit on a university exec and you are a leader at a major UK university. H how do you manage the university's reputation in a world of disinformation?

Vanessa:

Yeah, that's a tough question, but what we look at, and particularly our institution where E D I is our core. And having tough conversations. This is one of the things I'm having tough conversations that in intersectionality, whether that's culture or nationality, age, gender, sexuality, there's inevitable conflict in that range. Even within cultures and within countries, within even those certain communities. Like in LGBTQ plus, there is conflict, within those communities and conflict is not the issue. Okay. So that's what I've come down to and how we trying to create the culture at UL Conflict, it's. Not the issue, but it's the behavior and respect, you know, the behavior, what happens after in that conflict. That's, that's what you have to manage very, very carefully. Creating a culture where you're trying to, be kind and be respectful. Not to say you can't have an opinion but you don't make them feel in danger or, hated because of it. one case came up on how we support our lgbtq plus communities going to countries where it's illegal and how we support colleagues, how we support our values, but then also respect a culture at the same time. And, and those are the real naughty issues that I don't think globally we have right yet,

Nick:

There's a real role in celebrating differences, but treating people equally. Whereas I think there has been a play towards almost, removing differences in searching for equality

Vanessa:

yeah.

Andy:

Do you think that your international experience has helped you with diplomacy in other areas then?

Vanessa:

Yes, definitely. It has shaped me into who I've become because. I'm trying to set a culture where, you just constantly look at, there might be other way to do this. And that's where diversity really comes into its value. And having different cultures, different, different ages, neurodiversity, all those things. What I've started to learn is diversity is the fact. Okay. and it's become really important in the UK to really represent diversity. But diversity is just the facts. You can have diversity, but actually harnessing the talent and diversity is the hard skill. So you can have a diverse board, but harnessing it and really creating the culture where those differences of opinion are challenging. You're there to challenge each other to, to come up with a creative solution or a creative option. That's the skill that we need to build, Can I ask a question back?

Andy:

Yeah.

Vanessa:

I know you've been doing this podcast for a bit I was just wondering in some of your other sessions, what are some of the things you've taken away,

Andy:

For me it's been this universal experience that humans have. as soon as you experience the world, you go, okay, we are bound by similar values. We all want the same things and it creates a sort of awakening in people, it's very universal.

Vanessa:

Yeah, definitely.

Nick:

This whole thing has been really about people their formative experiences. Their childhood experiences, this has been as much about travel as it's been, as much about people's motivations and how they see the world.

Andy:

Asking questions like, what's the purpose? I don't do that with my own friends and family. I don't sit down and ask very meaningful questions and then listen, and it's made be more curious about the people around me.

Vanessa:

That's a good one.

Andy:

The last section of the podcast is called Anything to Declare. This is a free space for you to talk about whatever you like.

Vanessa:

The biggest thing for me is having to be able to be adaptable and agile to moments and just roll with it. And sometimes just know what your options are at that point. There was that one other time in Ghana where I was speaking, and I was shaken up afterwards and there was, and because this could happen everywhere, this wasn't a cultural thing, this was just someone in the audience and it was like a United Nations type of room. And I was speaking, I think it was on computer science and the future of tech industries cuz Ghana at that time was really having the rising tech industries. And so we were talking about that and it was quite a full room. Uh, and there was someone that was really agitated in the front and our agent was in there. and she went to, cause he kept come coming up and then filming you right up at the front and then taking it down and coming right back up and being really assertive of aggressive. And so he was removed. Uh, and so continued with the talk and 10 minutes later he had obviously broken away from security, came running in, throwing paper saying all these kind of really extreme statements that instigated, a fear what is happening. And he was running towards us. Cause I was up on a stage, he was running towards the stage and I was like, uh oh, okay. What, what am I gonna do? I either run, but he's probably can catch me, or I go into all my rugby training and I got into rugby tackle mode where I put down my shoulder. I just put down, if he runs at me, I could at least, flip, try to flip him over and run the direction he just came from. But, so I, I remember getting down into rugby mode, just, and that was the best training I probably ever had. But, and then security caught up and just caught him as he was getting up the stairs. But,

Andy:

He didn't stand a chance.

Nick:

Yeah.

Andy:

Your rugby training. In your bear training?

Nick:

Let him come. Just let him come.

Vanessa:

But it's in those moments that you realize no time to think it was just automatic response.

Nick:

I think that's the first time I've ever heard of a higher education speaker trying to be attacked on stage like that.

Andy:

I know what you were saying,

Nick:

Yeah.

Andy:

toe much

Vanessa:

computer science offended him somehow,

Nick:

Dark magic. He wasn't having it.

Vanessa:

And I remember after they took him out, you just had everybody looking at you, looking for your response. Like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna flip out and then I remember going back up to the pulpit and said, that could happen anywhere, shall we continue? And then I was shaking and then I used to, adrenaline's in that moment and I finished my talk and then I was like out.

Andy:

Yeah.

Nick:

Wow.

Andy:

Crazy. Vanessa, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been amazing having you.

Vanessa:

thank you so much. It's been really, fantastic to just take that moment to reflect. And as you even said, how often do you go through those pictures

Nick:

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for listening. As always. If you are a fan of the show. Please leave a review or emailers at sick bag, a tales from the departure lounge.com. Shout out as well to our sponsors, Duolingo. We've got some really good engagement ideas. So we're going to be doing those on social media over the next few weeks. Until then. Safe travels everyone. Tales from the Departure Lounge is a type nine production for the pie.

People on this episode

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Andy Plant

Host
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Nick Cuthbert

Host