#41 Jeff Williams (Why Take The Risk?)

Life is full of risks - including starting your own business, having a picnic in the Maasai Mara or saying way too much on a podcast.  In this episode we take listeners on an audio safari with Jeff Williams (CEO and founder of Enroly). He tells us about his close encounters with a Dik-Dik, surviving the mean streets of London and quitting his job. Aged 14 he was a partner in A&J Mulberry Fresh, aged 19 he co-founded a successful TV production company, and aged 24 he was the Head of International at the University of Bolton. Too much, too young? He's built another successful business since and is feeling his age. 

Cheap therapy for industry leaders and even cheaper promotion for BagBuddy, take a walk on the wildside with TFTDL. This ain't no zoo. 

Final destination: Maasai Mara National Reserve, Kenya

This episode is brought to you in partnership with The Ambassador Platform, a leading peer-to-peer marketing and recruitment platform that connects your current students to prospective students for honest advice. Check out www.theambassadorplatform.com 

Tales from the Departure Lounge is a Type Nine production for The PIE www.thepienews.com

Transcript

Andy: 0:02

this is the humanity that pervades our sector

Nick: 0:05

why did I say that?

Andy: 0:06

none of it is shocking It's fine

Nick: 0:14

Welcome to Tales from the Departure Lounge. This is a podcast about travel for business, for pleasure, or for study. My name's Nick and I'm joined by my co-pilot, Andy. And together we're gonna be talking to some amazing guests about how travel has transformed their. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the journey. Welcome to the podcast.

Andy: 0:38

Today on the show we speak to jeff williams. He's the ceo and founder of enrollee

Nick: 0:45

he's a risk taker.

Andy: 0:47

Yeah, this is an episode about risk for sure.

Nick: 0:49

he took a risk being a very early sponsor for this podcast.

Andy: 0:53

What a fool.

Nick: 0:54

It's the best money he's ever spent, is what he said.

Andy: 0:56

That's the quote we've got, which we're keeping. He takes us on safari talks about observing the brutality of nature

Nick: 1:02

And driving through the night in Cameroon.

Andy: 1:05

he's a founder and this isn't his first company. He's failed in the past.

Nick: 1:09

he had a TV production company whilst he was a student.

Andy: 1:12

a natural entrepreneur

Nick: 1:14

he talks about becoming a Londoner. And then a Northerner. He became the head of international at the University of Bolton at the age of 24.

Andy: 1:23

very young boss and he tells us a story about Drunkenness in China that what would it only happen if you're young? I don't know. It's a good story He's the risk taking founder who's set up shop in the UK. From the Masai Mara to China via Bolton, let's get some Tales from the Departure lounge from Geoff Williams.

Jeff: 1:41

It was possibly the rudest thing I've ever done in my life. And I just went, Oh my God, I'm a Londoner now. for 49 pounds, it gives you a business class kind of feeling gets you off on the right foot Everyone's full of ideas, it's just very rare that people are crazy enough to take it on. That is going to sound terrible. You definitely need to cut that, cut that out. That cannot be one of your clips, seriously. I'm also slightly fearful of what we've said today and I've spent nearly seven years building and rolling and I'm starting to think, why am I even here, frankly? Why would I, why would I risk this?

Nick: 2:18

So before we get into the episode, a quick word about our latest sponsor. Most of our listeners spend a lot of time traveling the world, staying in hotels or apartments, often where they haven't stayed before. I don't know about you, but whenever I'm choosing a hotel, I like to check out online reviews, or even better, ask friends or colleagues for recommendations. International students face the same uncertainty with their study choices, but the investment that they're making is much greater than the price of a hotel room. They'll be investing in that study destination for years. This is where the Ambassador Platform helps your prospective students. It links them up with your current students to receive honest, personalized advice and to answer any questions that they have. This is a direct and trusted source of information. It provides instant reassurance for students and improved conversion for your university. And it's not just messaging. Your ambassadors can generate their own content and videos to share, showing prospective students from anywhere on the planet what life is really like at your institution. And it gives them confidence and reassurance about their decisions. To find out more about this highly impactful peer to peer platform, or to book a demo with one of the friendly TAP team, please visit the link in the episode notes or go to the ambassadorplatform. com.

3:34

now let's get on with the episode

Andy: 3:36

Jeff, welcome to the show. It's great to have you on.

Jeff: 3:38

Thank you so much. Long time listener. You are, would say, the most important podcast in the UK higher education industry. At least top five, at least. I think it's great what you guys are doing. I was an early sponsor. and I remember at one point, Nick, sorry, Andy, he said, what do you think about a podcast would I be his co host

Andy: 4:02

I feel like I've just been cheated on.

Jeff: 4:05

I think my answer was, I think it's a great idea. But not for me.

Nick: 4:10

show me the money, I think was your response.

Jeff: 4:13

You guys have a solid relationship. You have nothing to be worried about.

Andy: 4:16

Nick. I didn't know this about you. The first question we always ask our guests is, if you could take our audience anywhere in the world, where would it be and why?

Jeff: 4:26

Like many of your guests spent a good decade traveling the world for work and then also obviously for pleasure, but I think I have to settle on Kenya. it's one of those places that exceeded my expectations. To a level that I didn't know expectations could be exceeded, and I'm speaking, specifically about a safari I did in the Masai Mara, it was one of those things where, I thought I was going to the zoo, it was going to be a zoo without fences, the way it works is you take a small aircraft from Nairobi, which is a little bit scary, and you land in a dusty, tarmac, and the Masai Mara meet you there, and at that point you become aware that you are now just in the open wilderness, you start to get that feeling of, okay, This isn't a zoo. This is real. You do a drive in the early morning and the evening and then in the day you come back and have lunch and drinks. it's a great trip from a format perspective But when we first drove out, we drove out into this herd, of I'd say 50 elephants that were the size of houses and we just drove into the middle and it was this Jurassic Park esque moment and from there, it just escalated this trip. it just got crazier and crazier and the amount of learning that you do as well. there's these little, antelope, they're like, 30 centimetres high and they're called dick dicks and the Masai Mara guide starts talking about it and there's a few of them in pairs and he's like they actually are monogamous and they mate for life and you see that one over there that's half falling over, his or her mate once they die they actually get so depressed because of their monogamy they actually starve themselves. to death And it's just this endless mind blowing experience. there was another time we, um, there's sort of a herd of buffalo and then some lions off to the side. And the driver just put us in position, between the lions and the buffalo as they were walking by. And he just said, let's wait for the last Buffalo. And sure enough, the lions were literally just sitting there having cocktails, waiting for this, this last Buffalo. And then they all just got up and boom, absolute carnage. And we're talking, meters from the car And it's just one of the most visceral experiences seeing it on TV in your own home, you're like, oh, the Buffalo, all the poor dick dick but, that reality, this is the economy, this is how this works here A brutal experience.

Andy: 6:53

You realize how brutal nature is. You see it very close up.

Jeff: 6:57

There's a guy called Mahul Shah. you might've heard of him. That has run a lot of industry out in Nairobi, around recruitment and missions and offshoring and TNA and various things. And he actually, got me a discount. He knows one of the owners of the parks. So, the value of this sector, the friends you make around the world, I've got a three year old and I'm like, I can't wait. To take him on safari. And we had to look at the price of a glamping Masai Mara holiday. And, it's in the tens of thousands of pounds now. So I may never go again. So my son may have to just hear the story. We'll listen to the podcast.

Nick: 7:31

did you go on any walking tours? where you literally walk out with a guide and a rifle.

Jeff: 7:36

Yeah, we had a couple of, little picnics, where they would stop and you would get out and it just felt wrong on, on so many levels. I have this philosophy in life when it comes to danger. I'm a, I'm a reasonable risk taker, but, it's actually my co founder who put this idea in my head from a previous company. It was a film production company and we were filming in the mountains and It was dodgy weather and we were going to take a helicopter and film and my co founder that company who's also my co founder at enrollee he really didn't want to do it and i was like why not and he says i don't know i just feel like if you die and then this when the story gets told people go yeah that makes sense you probably shouldn't do it. And that's how I felt in the Masai Mara. It was almost like if we die and then someone tells the story of, why did they die? Well, I had a picnic. They went and watched lions eat buffalo, and then they got out and they had a picnic. Like, I don't think people are going to have sympathy for me,

Andy: 8:37

You may have been the picnic.

Jeff: 8:39

yeah, I mean, the Maasai Mara are very confident, they drive the cars and they're guides. but when they leave work, they just walk out the front gate. And they walk to their village. And I said to my driver where is your village? So how far are you walking? And he of said, Oh, it's a few miles. And I was like, what do you do if you're faced with a lion? And he basically said, you just stand there and put your hands behind your back. And then the lion doesn't know what you've got behind your back. And you just hold your ground. So what does he think? You might have a machine gun, you know,

Andy: 9:12

how do you find that out?

Jeff: 9:14

I guess one of your early ancestors is screaming as they're being eaten., I took my hands out from behind my back.

Andy: 9:20

Don't do that. So how long were you there for?

Jeff: 9:24

I think it was about five or six days from memory. It's going back a while now. It was my early days of moving to the UK. I really did not intend to stay, but really love the UK. It was one of my options, actually, of where we're going today I think the UK gets a lot of stick but I think, it is an incredible place and so much opportunity here. And I wouldn't have a company like enrollee. I don't think,, perhaps anywhere else. I don't know. I can get on a train from London and get to 100 universities a few hours. It's quite a unique set up.

Andy: 9:52

do you feel welcome here though, Jeff? Because you're one of these pesky immigrants that, comes over and sets up a successful company, creates lots of jobs, I mean, what the hell are you doing

Jeff: 10:03

I think London took a while to get used to, because being Australian, a bit of casual chit chat to strangers is not unusual. I remember the first morning I was here, I went into a busy cafe. And this woman came up behind me and physically moved me and scoffed something along the lines of block the walkway. That was my sort of immediate, keep London moving, introduction. The day I became a Londoner, I was working at Brunell, university at the Navitas Pathway College. And I, I reckon I was about six months in and I got on the Metropolitan Line from Oxbridge into London. Brune, they tell you they're based in London. they technically are though. I'll give them that. Anyway, I'm on this train and and someone came and sat down next to me and they started speaking to me with just enough madness that I just stood up, didn't say anything, got off the train, walked another carriage and just got on. It was possibly the rudest thing I've ever done in my life. That's my peak rudeness. And I just went, Oh my God, I'm a Londoner now.

Andy: 11:06

Ah, it's so sad. it's Crocodile Dundee, isn't it? It says good morning to everyone your, Your naivety it's been rubbed off by London and its brutality.

Jeff: 11:15

within a year and a half I ended up in Bolton, which was a sea change and the North was more of my people,, from a chitchat perspective. I had to unlearn my new London skills, I was only 24 I think at the time and it was for head of international and it was one of those oh, I'll just chuck in an application situation but at the time, did not fully understand how far it was. And then got shortlisted and then realized, oh, this is a literally a different, geographical area I can't commute this.

Andy: 11:44

You can't come up here being all London.

Jeff: 11:46

I never gave up on London. I was actually maintaining a share house in London and a share house in Bolton, I was the head of international living in a student house with undergraduate students. We would go out and, I would just pay for the night because pints were like a pound or whatever, these cheap bars, I was just some kind of sugar daddy for, that's, I was going to say for students, but that is going to sound terrible. You definitely need to cut that, cut that out. That cannot be one of your clips, seriously.

Andy: 12:15

That's going to be on all the promos. Sugar Daddy Jeff.

Nick: 12:18

you became the head of international for Bolton with no idea where it was. I'd like to say you just called out Brunel for saying it's not quite in London. Were you pitching that Bolton was part of Manchester? Yes you were.

Jeff: 12:30

Shivani is going to kill me, isn't she? it's the best of London, I would say, Brunel. Because you've got the space, but you've got the accessibility. So let's, let's move on from that one. But, um, yeah, I wouldn't say I didn't, I sort of knew, but Didn't fully accept because I didn't I didn't think I'd get an interview but then it just kept spiraling out of control and um yeah I eventually got off of this job and by then I well and truly knew that it was uh involved and where that was.

Nick: 13:14

I wanted to go a little bit back to Africa. your safari, whether it is a like misappropriation of Africa it felt like the wilderness, whether there was still a fence somewhere and it was kept that way just for you.

Jeff: 13:27

The misappropriation is, an interesting concept. I think they do a fantastic job of, balancing that commercial tourism without putting fences up. I remember once in Cameroon and West Africa on the other side, I was there on a work trip. And I ended up on this, this beach restaurant. it was like a rickety wooden, jetty type thing. It was quite large and ocean level, like sitting just above the water. And these guys were pole fishing. Straight out of the ocean, into the restaurant, which there was like fire pits and people were then cleaning the fish and then cooking it. And then you're eating it with your hands. And it was costing you know, barely a pound, end to end. And I just thought I don't know how much money people would pay for that experience if they knew how to get there. It's one of those memories where it's just unbelievable,

Nick: 14:16

good food just sticks in my mind,

Jeff: 14:18

On that particular trip in Cameroon though, I did also do something that I do not recommend, which is drive. Oh god, I can't, is it Yaounde and Douala? Does that sound right? the two cities? I apologize to Cameroonians if that's wrong, but I drove between those two cities. I took a car and it turned out you should not do that at night. Turns out you just shouldn't do it full stop, but I did. And the reason you should not do it is it's a very thin road with no lights and logging trucks are going back and forth. At a rate of knots. So I want to say maybe three hours drive, a logging truck with blazing headlights coming towards my tiny little car. And if you got to, I don't know, year eight physics, you understand. the inertia that a logging truck has against a small car. So every time I just thought I was going to die and halfway through we really slowed down and there was lots of commotion and unfortunately there was an actual dead body on the road. So a pedestrian had been hit and it was one of those real shocking moments. Just literal death and potential death around me.

Andy: 15:37

Just like when you were a picnic as well, you realize how close you could be, um, to death. Makes you feel a little bit more invincible, a little bit more, alive, I guess.

Jeff: 15:45

Youth is important though. When you you're in your twenties, like early thirties, you don't, you don't necessarily consider those risks. Are we all over 40 by the way? Have we all crossed that threshold? Yeah.

Andy: 15:57

Unfortunately. Yeah.

Jeff: 15:58

but does this still happen? I know recruitment trips still happen. But, are we better now as an industry? Is it safer? Is it more organized?

Andy: 16:05

We need to get some younger, staff on some international officers who are, not adverse to danger, because they aren't in their forties and don't have children

Nick: 16:13

They're all out there living guys.

Andy: 16:15

Yeah. recording podcasts about it. They're doing it. Yeah. The next session of the podcast is called Any Laptops, Liquids, or Sharp Objects? Have you got any traveller's advice or hacks that you use when you're travelling?

Jeff: 17:08

Can I give you two sets? I think under 40, I've got different hacks. So I don't want to hide my under 40 hacks from your younger listeners. I think under 40, I used to love, a roll don't fold. With your clothes and I would always go for a full carry on approach. I used to love the challenge of a two or three week trip, full carry on. It's the ultimate achievement if you can do that. You'll just feel like a hero when everyone's waiting for bags and you're just bang, in and out of airports. another thing I used to do, especially with time difference trips is straight to the gym. Soon as you get in, like no matter what pain. or agony or jet lag or hunger or hungover from that beer you shouldn't add on the plane, just straight to the gym to break into the, time zone. and the other trick from the younger years was I'd always set a wake up call. In the morning. I set a wake up call for tomorrow based on what tomorrow's agenda is just in case, you stumble across five other, international offices in the bar and have that moment where you're still having drinks at, 2 a. m. And you've just forgotten that you've got a meeting that starts at 8 30 a. m. Also pre order a coffee as well. So you get the double sort of belt braces security that you're going to wake up and you get a coffee, delivered.

Andy: 18:29

Wake up calls still a thing. They feel quite analogue.

Jeff: 18:32

This is like the old timers. We're not even that old. I mean, there's going to be people that are like, these guys are a bunch of jokers, but yeah, I think they have phones in hotels.

Andy: 18:40

Hang on. I just need to call the talking clock. Find out what time it is.

Jeff: 18:45

and then my over 40, my wife, if I'm giving a nod to her, I've traveled back to Australia to see my family once a year, but she is the queen of admin. Holding things together. she's so good. I feel like I'm almost a dignitary when I travel because I don't get to hold passports and things like that. She's got it all organized. there's manila folders and there's plans. And, I just walked through, almost just shaking strangers hands really, because I have so little to do. And then, Oh, this is good. This is one of my favorites, I think of all time. There are these companies and there's one I've used called BagBuddy. So what they do, two bags, 49 pounds, they will come to your house, pick it up, take it to the airport and check it in for you. So your job now, when you go to the airport, is just to simply arrive assuming you're pre checked in. You can actually just treat it like a short haul flight, just walking straight to security. And, for 49 pounds, it gives you a business class kind of feeling gets you that off on the right foot versus, you guys have kids, traveling, long haul with kids, it's, a bit of a nightmare when you've got those massive suitcases as well as all their stuff so that's a really nice tip. I think

Andy: 20:00

is this a London thing? Do you think they operate in rural Nottinghamshire?

Jeff: 20:03

I'm going to assume, no,

Andy: 20:06

If they do, it's probably slightly more than 49 pounds.

Jeff: 20:09

We're giving bag buddy a pretty big plug here. I feel like we should get some kind of credits, maybe a sponsor for you guys.

Nick: 20:15

don't think we can judge it. So we've tried it

Jeff: 20:17

true. If you do implement bag buddy, your wife might start to wonder what you do around here.

Nick: 20:23

I'm feeling quite redundant at the best of times.

Jeff: 20:28

I do have a story I think is one of my best stories I was sort of thinking do I want to share this because it's it is one of those stories that I'm not sure how I look in it, I'm I'm fairly certain. I'm fine though. Let's go. So I'm in a place, northern China, on a work trip. So this is when I was at Bolton as the head of international. And I was there with one of my, colleagues, uh, who's a staff member. And we have this lunch and it was a traditional Chinese type lunch with the gumby and the drinking. And it, it turned out with me being quite heavily targeted, from a drinking perspective. And for those who don't know, in the Chinese culture, you'll, you'll often stand up and, you know, ask someone to drink with you and you say gumby and you drink and you have a shot together. however, if there's 10 people and all 10 people. effectively ask you. the younger version of me agrees and drinks. So we had this quite a big session I've drunk way too much in too short a period of time. I can almost feel Like the clock ticking where I'm going to start to lose motor skills. So, um, I'm not going to say her name. I shouldn't say her name. Um, she works in the industry still. Let's call her mystery lady and so mystery lady she's not in a great state either. And she's like, we really need to go. Um, we need to get to the airport because we're going, I think we're into Shanghai I can't exactly remember, but it was one of the biggest cities and I'm now semi saying we're fine. Like we will be, we don't need to leave now. And I'm sort of ignoring her saying, Oh, be okay. And then eventually. I realized, no, no, we really have to leave, don't we? Okay. So we rush to the airport and they take our bags, check us in standing there. We could sort of see some commotion. Then all of a sudden the bags come back, the boarding cards come back, and they say, sorry, you can't get on the plane. It's too, it's too late. So there was sort of this sort of zone where we weren't sure whose fault it was. And in the end they said, we'll take the blame. And we're. In a part of China where English is not great and they end up offering one of these airport hotels. And they gave us 100, equivalent compensation And so we get to the hotel and it was. at this point, though, we're just feeling horrendous and it's getting late. then they assume that Mystery Lady and I are together. So they try and put us in the same room. We're like, no, no, we need separate rooms, and I only found this out afterwards, but I agreed that we wouldn't pay any extra money to have the rooms that we were taking separately to ourself guaranteed. I definitely didn't hear this at the point where this was being explained in very broken English. So we go to respective rooms. And I just lay down on the bed. I'm still shirt shoes. I just lay on the bed. I'm like, like, thank God that's over I fall asleep and I wake up to people in my room. Right. So look up there's like three people in my room, And I get up, and I just have this sort of like, arms wide, drunken moment. I'm just going to get them all out. I kind of just scoop them all out of my room, into the hallway. And at this point I realize I've scooped out what appears to be, a set of, sex worker, a traveling gentleman with a big box of like bizarre stuff and a security guard, from the hotel. And so I'm like, what is happening right now? And basically I start to understand that he's trying to check in this man and woman into my room, into the other single bed with me. And I'm like, okay. No, this does not sound like it's going to, to happen. So, I start to understand, I'm like, so what, so at this point, remember, I don't know that I've agreed that other people can come in my room. I only find this out from mystery lady who was actually listening to what was being told before. So, I then begin to understand that I've not got the room to myself and I need to pay 20 US dollars. to get the room to myself. I'm like, that's fine. We can arrange this. Go in my room. I've got no, no cash, no way to pay. So I then have to go to my colleague staff member. I'm meant to be the one in charge, you know, technically of this, this, this event. Right. And I have to knock on her door lots of men knocking on doors. Am I the man on knocking on doors in hotels? I'm wearing clothes though. So I knock on the door. You know, fully clothed, just to clarify, um, and she opens the door to me, a sex worker, a traveling gentleman, and a security guard. I've never seen someone judge. me in real time. cause as you can imagine, it looks like I'm caught up in some kind of mad, pimp type scenario, right? Where I'm now needing money. to solve. So I'm trying to explain what's happened while also trying to ask for money from, my colleague. And she's like I'm quitting, I'm leaving just the look of what have you done? And so she eventually gives me the money. I sort out this situation. In the morning, I managed to explain and she, she accepts that this is the truth and we proceed to the airport. Casual clothes, very hung over. for some reason, the airline did not put anyone's luggage on the plane. So we flew to our next meeting. I then left my laptop in the seat pocket in front of me. And we had to go straight to meetings and I was in shorts and a t shirt with no bags, no laptop. We somehow got through this day. But then we went to this really, amazing five star hotel. We go to check in. Sorry, we're completely booked, but we've, we've upgraded you, to your own suite again. So they're trying to put us back together again. And at this point, we're like, Oh my God, we're not, we're not together. And at this point, she's like, and I definitely don't want to be anywhere near this guy.

Nick: 26:17

Yeah, that's

Jeff: 26:18

knows what's in store. In the end, they're like, no, we have no other space. And we ended up getting upgraded, to the presidential suite in this incredible hotel. And we did agree then to stay in the same room because it was a literal presidential suite with many bedrooms and like saunas and steam rooms. But this was the most amazing hotel room I think I've ever seen. To the point where I walked in and I said, I'll take this room. almost calling rank, like this is amazing. And it turned out it was the smallest room in the entire, Penthouse suite. So, so yeah, hopefully I don't come off too badly, but it's definitely one of the most bizarre 30 hours I've had on the road.

Andy: 26:56

By Joe is a terrible drink. Yeah.

Nick: 26:59

it started.

Jeff: 27:00

It goes down so easy though, doesn't it? When you're in the zone and you, you hit that hero mode

Andy: 27:04

It's definitely one of those time bomb drinks where you drink it, you feel fine, and then all of a sudden you really don't feel fine. Yeah.

Nick: 27:12

Kids, this is the former international director of the university of Bolton,

Jeff: 27:17

Yeah. But I mean, listening to the podcast and everyone's experiences, you have that element of, wow, that must be unique. And then the more people talk, you're like, Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. This is not unique at all. It seems it's par for the course for some reason.

Nick: 27:31

love random ones Cause you never quite know where it's going to go.

Jeff: 27:35

I'm also slightly fearful of what we've said today and I've spent nearly seven years building and rolling and I'm starting to think, why am I even here, frankly? Why would I, why would I risk this?

Andy: 28:13

The next section of the podcast is called what's the purpose of your visit? So why do you do what you do?

Jeff: 28:18

it's a big question, isn't it? some kids like music and, other things. But I always had a bizarre attraction to entrepreneurship. My mother was dabbled in various business opportunities She was a nurse by trade, but she would always quit being a nurse. And would start something. And I think that instilled in me that it was possible, to quit a career. And if you're good at that career, you can always go back. I think a lot of people do have great ideas and you don't take them because of just pure fear. I used to have a poster on my wall that I made. I think I was like 13 or 14, maybe that said, what can I provide and or service that people will want and or need very specific. and I put this up at the end of my bed and then I used to read Richard Branson's autobiography. Repeatedly. And so I had loads of. Little businesses all the time. I think my most successful business. I remember was, a and J mulberry fresh, my friend Ashley in Australia. We had this mulberry tree and we would package these mulberries and we would sell them door to door in the suburbs and they would sell reasonably well. And then one day we stumbled across this retirement village, which was much smaller homes. Very close together and we had this moment of like our biggest problems right now are that people are not home and that we have to walk quite far between all these houses. And so we're like, Oh, wow, I think that's where we should target, and we just sold out I didn't know it at the time, but that was product market fit.

Nick: 29:50

Did you expand your product line from mulberries to other items for the retirement home?

Jeff: 29:56

We did go into the ANJ car wash, slightly contentious because I replaced Ashley with Andrew, but I managed to keep the stickers the same. We're still friends. I'm still friends with Ashley and Andrew,

Andy: 30:07

What did you sack

Jeff: 30:08

I traded him in for another friend who also had a name starting with A. I did go to university, and during that time, I started a business. and it wasn't meant to be a business, it was meant to be a way to go and do lots of extreme sports for free by filming them and creating a TV show for a community television channel.

Nick: 30:33

Yes.

Jeff: 30:34

A couple of my friends and my co founder at Enroli was studying film and television. And we just came up with this idea of you guys have got access to equipment at the university. we all love jet skiing and skydiving. We don't have the money to pay for this. This community TV channel had launched and we came up with this idea of creating a TV show called extreme WA, which is Western Australia, where I'm from. And the idea being that we would just ring up these places with very expensive activities and say, Hey, we're filming this community TV show. and it worked and And this thing just spiraled to the point where we, decided we're making a series. we're only, 19 or so, so still very young. And and. We put this series on and at the time there's only five TV channels, right? We're getting old in this chat, aren't we? What's happened? There was like five channels, right? So this community TV station was the sixth channel. So it actually got pretty decent viewership., we started to get recognized, like people were actually watching this show. and. What happened next was a producer from the ABC, which is the kind of BBC in Australia, called up and he was a producer of a prime time sort of human interest show called George Negus Tonight, and he said, I've been watching your show. And he said, how do you make it? It was so cutting edge, he wasn't really up to speed that you could make this now. I saw an opportunity to flip this to, well, if you think we're so great, why don't you let us make a segment for the show? And that can be the hook, you've handed over the keys. to teenagers on this national television show. And he was just like, I love it. Let's do it. And so we went out and we made a segment called, generation net, right? It's like 2000 and it was at the time that the first viral video came out. So we made this segment kind of getting into all this stuff and we took it in and they just were blown away. And then they were like, can you do a follow up? Like, what do you want to do next? And I'd read an article in the paper, about a student coming out as gay. And it became this massive story. And we contacted him and said, can we just follow you around, and just talk about your life? And we came with this content and they were just like, this is amazing guys. So we picked up this contract there and then we had Fox Sports pick up our extreme sports show. And by now we're like 20, right? We've got this kind of functioning business now that's pretty unwieldy. and we then missed the pivot. And this was our demise. We were editing there and then turning around and watching online videos, pre YouTube by the way, and we didn't join the dots, we were very obsessed with traditional editing. television and we missed that there was this huge online opportunity despite literally making a segment called Generation Net. So the Fox Sports thing dwindled away. We were doing some commercial stuff but wasn't paying the bills. And we ultimately when. Bankrupt, as a business. So I'm now,, maybe 21 and I've got my first bankruptcy, under my belt. And that was the point where I thought, okay, I love this. I can't do it again right away. Cause it takes a lot out of you, I got a job at Navitas. And they sent me to Malaysia and I was like, okay, yeah, this is pretty cool. And then spent the next 10 years in the sector fast forward to the 2017. leads me to enroll off the back of working in this incredible industry and seeing the world.

Andy: 34:31

The next section of the podcast is called anything to declare. This is a free space for you to talk about whatever you like.

Jeff: 34:36

I can talk about enrollee, just for people who may not know, what we do, we are a software company a platform product, meaning that we sit on top of a student management system, for at a university and we effectively handle what we would call the bottom of funnel of international recruitment. Post offer through to arrival and we handle a combination of the conversion and the compliance, of that workflow. But I think one of the misunderstandings in a way is, it's actually an industry platform. And that's how we've always seen it. We're building a platform for the industry to collaborate. It just so happens that the universities. I want the biggest winners of that, but they're actually also the nodes on the network that make this platform work. we're approaching 70 odd universities. Now, about 1 in 3 students coming to the UK flows through our platform. As far as what I'd like to declare, We mix with a lot of people at universities and we see so much talent and so many ideas in these universities. And sometimes I just think, wow, you've got so much opportunity and potential. And, I'm talking people who I think are capable of building the next enrollee are floating around out there. or, the next big ed tech company. And to pull it back to what we've been talking about is that confidence to just quit your job. Be aware that your first idea doesn't have to be the idea. And that's something I really wish I knew earlier. That idea never evolves until you do quit your job and let it evolve. So I think, my declaration would be anyone out there thinking. I'd love to do that, but I'm shitting my pants at the prospect of it. you can get another job, you're probably super talented already. The fact that you're thinking about this, you've probably got the experience, if it all does go wrong, it's one of those learning points that you bring back to your next job interview. Everyone's full of ideas, it's just very rare that people are crazy enough to take it on.

Andy: 36:38

You need to get out of the zoo and into, the real safari. That's where all the good stuff happens.

Nick: 36:43

the Cowies just brought that all together.

Jeff: 36:45

Wow. I feel like I need to go and see a counselor though after this, because we've gone to some deep places here.

Andy: 36:52

Are we charging for this, Nick?

Nick: 36:53

We just create a safe space for people to open up and we record it and then exploit it.

Andy: 36:59

you were really not qualified. Jeff, thanks so much for coming on the show. It's been great to have you.

Jeff: 37:03

Thanks for having me guys. Absolute pleasure.

Nick: 37:10

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for listening. As always I want to say a massive thank you to the ambassador platform I hope you're enjoying this series.

37:19

We have a new social media campaign. People are sending us their travel pictures and we're putting them all up online. Or you can send them to as sick bag tales from the departure lounge.com.

Nick: 37:32

Safe travels. Tales from the Departure Lounge is a type nine production for the pie.