The Food Service Growth Show
Join Carl Jacobs, the visionary CEO and co-founder of Apicbase, as he sits down with industry heavyweights and trendsetters in The Food Service Growth Show. In each episode, Carl taps into the wealth of knowledge from Food and Beverage experts to bring you insider insights and practical advice on scaling your food service business. This podcast is your go-to source for actionable tips and strategies for achieving sustainable growth in the dynamic Food and Beverage industry. Don't miss out on this opportunity to elevate your success – tune in to The Food Service Growth Show today!
The Food Service Growth Show
Strategies That Made Friends & Brgrs a Top Burger Chain in Finland
Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Food Service Growth Show, where we dive deep into the stories, strategies, and secrets of some of the most successful foodservice brands across the globe.
Today’s episode is an absolute treat for foodservice industry professionals and enthusiasts alike, as we’re joined by the prominent leader in the food service industry, Isak Fagerholm, COO at Friends & Brgrs, one of Finland’s most beloved burger chains.
In this episode, Carl Jacobs, CEO of Apicbase, and Isak Fagerholm, COO at Friends & Brgrs, will talk about...
✅ How Friends & Brgrs overcame early challenges?
✅ Friends & Brgrs’ journey from 1 to 29 restaurants
✅ How Partners helped Friends & Brgrs professionalize and expand?
✅ How Friends & Brgrs adapted its expansion goals after COVID?
✅ The role of KPIs in driving success at Friends & Brgrs
✅ How Friends & Brgrs maintains quality across restaurants?
✅ How Friends & Brgrs retains talent in a competitive industry?
✅ The role of technology in running a 30-outlet restaurant chain
✅ Solving problems and building relationships at Friends & Brgrs
✅ What is the next big thing in the food service industry?
Every business faces its own set of challenges when starting, and Friends & Brgrs is no exception. Isak talks about the key hurdles they encountered in the early days and, more importantly, how they overcame them.
Isak will take us through the entire journey of Friends & Brgrs. He will highlight the key decisions, growth phases, and milestones that helped them scale their operations. From humble beginnings to operating 29 locations, the growth story of Friends & Brgrs is nothing short of impressive.
As a company grows, so does the complexity of its operations. Friends & Brgrs knew they couldn’t achieve their ambitious growth goals alone. Isak will share how strategic partnerships helped them professionalize their operations and expand their footprint. From aligning with the right investors to partnering with right vendors, the role of collaboration in their success is a central theme.
Isak explains how the chain reevaluated its expansion goals in light of the pandemic. The COVID-19 pandemic disrupted the entire food service industry, forcing brands to rethink their strategies and operations.
For any restaurant chain, measuring success is key. Friends & Brgrs employs a range of KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) to ensure they stay on track and continuously improve their performance.
One of the biggest challenges for multi-unit operations is maintaining consistent quality across all locations. Isak shares the strategies that Friends & Brgrs uses to ensure that every burger served, whether in Helsinki or Stockholm, meets the same high standards.
Isak reveals the initiatives they’ve implemented to retain talent, from creating a positive work c
Learn how our restaurant management solutions help your restaurant business keep costs under control.
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Hello, I'm Carl Jacobs and I'm co-founder and At Apicbase, we are building the world's best food and beverage management platform. But in this podcast series, it's all about finding answers on how to grow and scale your food service business. I'm talking to experts and industry professionals who are passionate about building a healthy food service industry. Join me on this fascinating journey of entrepreneurship in food. Hello everybody! Welcome back to another episode of the Food Service Growth Show. Today I have with me Isak Fagerholm, who is the chief operating officer at Friends & Brgrs, who is in Finland. And hello, Isak. Thanks for joining us.
Isak:Thank you for the invitation, Carl, and I'm I like what you're doing with the podcast.
Carl:Thank you very much. Thank you for those kind I'm sure that in the next 30 to 40 minutes we will have a fantastic conversation. And as always, I am very interested in the person that is sitting in front of me because I'm, I'm I like to understand, you know, how does somebody become a chief operating officer at a at a at a burger joint? so, so, first question, as always, who is Isak and where do you come from?
Isak:Yeah. So. Well, my my roots are in Jakobstad, But I've spent most of my of my life in the Helsinki region. my background, my my professional background. I, I started to work when I was quite young. I worked with in, food. Well, in a food factory actually, since I was 14. And then when I was 19 to 20, I had my my military service, which is mandatory in Finland. And after I left, I was looking to do some work with people as I only had worked with in factories before. And then I heard that the a couple of people were planning to to start a restaurant chain, Friends & Brgrs, and one of them is my father. So that's how I came across it. And they were looking for people, and I put in an application and said that I, I want to work with I with people and I want to be be a part of building something new. And and I joined the company a couple of months before we opened the first restaurant. And then that's ten years ago now. And it's been a really, really interesting journey with a lot of mistakes and a lot of lessons learned, but mostly, mostly good memories.
Carl:Yes, that's what we are going to to. I hope you will share a little bit about those challenges, mistakes and also the lessons learned. But before I go in there, I have a very specific question. You do military service for Finland. can you can you tell us a little bit about that? Because I am from we do not have any mandatory military services. And do you learn something there?
Isak:Yeah. I think well, in Finland we have. It's for all men. It's, compulsory. So you have to do 6 to 12 months, depending on what kind of training you get. And I did 12 months. And I guess you can learn a lot from it. if you if you have the right attitude, I think I think it's great. And I think what the Finnish talking about operations specific specifically, I think it's really great that they get that they, you know, I think it's maybe like at least over 10,000 people each year. And then they, these young men and women, and then they teach them to fire a weapon and and walk for 70km without hurting themselves. And that takes, you know, good training routines and a really clear roles and a well built organisation. So I think for me personally, I learned a lot. I think there's a lot of good things that you can learn from the. Yeah, from the military. But yeah, in Finland it's for all men and then it's voluntary for, for women.
Carl:And the these things that you've, that you've point of view and, you know, learning to walk 70km. And are these things that you carry along, throughout your, your life as a professional or is this more kind of a one off thing? And it was nice to do, but that's it.
Isak:Yeah, I think I think there's, well, you there's a lot of things that that impact you and, and make a difference. And I think for me specifically, I think I've had I've been able to apply a lot of the learnings to to the to friends and brothers and to my work. for example, I think one of the good practices they have is that when you're going to have a training or you're going to train something to a to to your group in the military, you have to make a plan before you you have the training and you have to specify where you're going to have the training, what you're going to say in the beginning, how you're going to set up the, the, the whole whole session. And you have to do it so detailed that if you get sick or can't make it in any way, you should be able to hand the paper to someone else, and they should be able to have the exact same training just by reading through the your instructions. So I think these kind of things, are quite useful and it's very, you know, structured the way that they lead and, and Yeah. Do they help.
Carl:You in real life? All right. Fantastic. of course Then Then after the military service, the the six friends come together and they decided to to start a Friends & Brgrs. you say I joined a few months before opening the first. The first joint. What was your role back then?
Isak:So it was it was basically me and one one And when I joined the, the of the product development was, was, had started, but there was still we started. Well, the first couple of tasks that I did was to help with recruiting, setting up the POS system and, you know, painting walls and opening shipments. Shipments of equipment and normal stuff that comes along with opening a new location. Yeah. And then, for the first year, we. Well, the role was basically to just do the pilot restaurant and and try to get the concept defined, the processes and and the business.
Carl:So so so I hear this often when when people operational, which is obvious. But one question that I had when, when when preparing this talk was, all right, there's six friends and, and then they hire you and you are basically running that restaurant with another chef and you're doing the recruitment. What was the relationship between the six, let's say founding friends then and, and your relationship and what was their contribution, compared to yours in the sense or were they just, let's say the finance people?
Isak:Yeah. I think, well, it's small circles up founders is my father, and one is my uncle. And the, I do have know the other ones as well in some way, but I think they've been really great and very hands on. I think the whole area where I'm from and where the founders are from is very entrepreneurial. And I think everyone has been in some way helped France and Berger's very hands on throughout the years. And four of them have worked. No three of them have worked in the in the company for for a couple of years. Yeah. And and one works still. Yeah. So they have been really hands on and you know, when we opened the second location and I'm sure we get to that, it was quite busy. And I know I remember a couple of the founders came in on a Friday and Saturday and ground beef with me because we have. Yeah, we were very busy. So that's, that's the kind of mentality that the group had. And yeah, and it was we had a great relationship and they have been I've learned a lot from them.
Carl:And and when you talk about the beginnings opened up the first, let's say, concept store Was the idea immediately to grow into a chain, or was this kind of more accidental?
Isak:No, this was clearly meant to be a chain. From day one. We, you know, we had branded wrapping paper and and the whole the whole concept and brand was built for, for for it to be. Yeah, for it to be a chain. And I think it, it was quite interesting actually, because we had just the one location in Pietarsaari or in Jakobstad where we opened the pilot restaurant and some, some newspapers came to to do a story on us. And when they published, they wrote that Friends & Brgrs, the new restaurant chain, and we only had one location. So that's how.
Carl:You know, from the beginning. Yeah. That's nice. Yes. And, and then, when you open this concept store, what was the biggest learning that you, you did during those first 12 months? And, you know, maybe also the biggest challenge that you, you had in those early days.
Isak:Yeah, we could do a whole episode on just the challenge was with with quality, because we had done product testing and we had really, you know, refined the product and we had a great burger and we had great fries. But then when we and that was when we made only, you know, 5 to 10 burgers in a test kitchen. But then when we opened, you know, we had a couple of hundred people, people the first weekend and week and, and that turned out to be a quite more. Well, much more challenging than we than we were prepared for. And I think a good way to illustrate this is, you know, opening day, you have a line out the door outside the door. And my, my brother, my twin brother was the second one in line. And, you know, we feel we think we're ready, you know, and I'm standing behind the cash register and, and we have the chefs in the chefs in the kitchen are prepared. And he's customer two. And he gets a burned burger. His is patty was burned. So that tells you about how unprepared we actually were to start. To start.
Carl:did you get through then the shift or, did
Isak:It's kind of a blur, I think, the first But it was it was fun, but very intense. But we did have a really big, big struggles with especially with with consistency in general, but more specifically with fries. we did triple cooked fries with, you know, with the freezing of the potatoes in between. And it was really demanding. And, we had huge quality issues. And I think then if that's the biggest challenge, then go into the learning. I think the, the thing we did well was that we didn't give up. We kept trying to improve and learn and and develop the product and processes. And after a couple of months, in the in the fall of 2014, we, we kind of figured some things out in terms of, especially in terms of fries. And then I think the thing we really did well is that we realized that now we had we had a lot of disappointed customers. Some were happy with the product, but we had we were so inconsistent that we knew that we had a lot of people that didn't really get the best experience. So we actually when we got the new potato harvest in the fall, we had a free fries event. So we basically told the city that now we figure it out, we have fresh potatoes and we're it's on us, you know, come and have free fries for the whole evening. And we had a lot of people come in and, and, and give us another chance. And I think, I think that's the way to go when you make a mistake, you know, you you admit it and then and then try to, to repair the damage.
Carl:Yeah, that that sounds like a big thing. It's like, you know, your audience almost forgave you for the, let's say, the early mistakes. And then they said, okay, let's let's try this again. And, can you tell us, talk us through then the first, let's say the next phase where you go from one to a few locations. what was what did you then? How did you manage to to go from one to multiple locations? And by the way, how many locations are there today?
Isak:Yeah. So I'll take the locations first. So we have 28 now. We opened one last week or a week ago on Thursday. congrats. What time of recording? And then we're opening the next 1/29 next week, so. All right. So almost 30 now. I think if we take the net. So we we did the pilot and we got it kind of working and we thought we had it figured out. The next step was to to open location two. And we did that in Helsinki, very central location. and and we were expecting, expecting it to, you know, feeling optimistic. But at the day of opening again, we had a we had a long line out the door. And that was maybe the moment when we realized that there's something here, This will work. and that was a very positive feeling. And then we opened the door and we started to make the burgers and, and we thought that the line would end, but it didn't end. It kept going for the whole week, and then a couple of weeks and then the whole So 4 or 5 months, we had a constant queue every day. And that was very challenging in terms of getting, you know, the the restaurant up and running because we were always a bit behind, you know, trying to recruit more, trying to prep more and getting the, you know, investing in new equipment. and I think, I think we only survived if we, if the first was tough and we only did it because we had a great, great team. I think the team in, in the second location during the was that was that was really amazing. We had we had some great people who really pushed through a very hectic and, and, and I think Friends & Brgrs wouldn't be here without the people who, who work those early years. All right. So that was location two. And then after the we kind of it quieted down maybe just a bit. And we kept improving. And and then we the next year we, we opened three more locations. So we had this, quite, quite rapid growth from just one location in a small city to, to five. And this was, one of the most challenging times as well, because we, we didn't really have the processes or the, you know, instructions or like the handbooks. we didn't have the the. No, no one in the team had any experience since we were all so new. we didn't we didn't have, you know, the possibility to put in a startup team to the new openings. So it was kind of we were stretched quite thin. But again, we for for some reason, we we really attracted, you know, great people. And we had amazing teams in all the restaurants and that learned fast and, you know, were flexible and wanted to help out and make make a success out of out of it. And I think that that was really, really that's something I'm very thankful for. But I think, yeah. So scaling, scaling up, you know, from seven people to 140 in, in one and a half years, that was that was very a tough challenge. But and we did a lot of mistakes throughout those years. But I think we were quick to adapt and react and try to learn. And and I think we the product and the brand was, was was good enough. So so customers also forgave us.
Carl:Yeah. Yeah. And and then you say you grow obviously your role changes as well because in the beginning you are operationally involved in making sure that patties aren't burned and that all of the tills are the orders are registered correctly. when once you have 140 people, you need to manage them. And what were you in? How was your role Evolving throughout that period.
Isak:Yeah. So when we went to three locations, my and and was more trying to build the, the organization with, with having individual restaurant managers and my role would be more, well, operationally active still, but more managing them and also developing the business. Mhm. but that's maybe more like the in reality, of course, it was very hands on. I remember when we opened the third location, I was there for three weeks and very hands on in the kitchen every day. Mhm. so, so it's and I think that's something that we, that's a strength of France and Burger. So the whole team, the management team we have now, the majority of them have been with the company for a long time or, and have worked, you know, hundreds of shifts in the, in the, on the floor. And that's something that that's been really key to us, you know, understanding the business and understanding our staff as as good as I hope we do today. And I have to say, as even even now with 28 locations, I still do shifts.
Carl:Are you still part of the of the operational
Isak:No. Yeah, you have to. I was to two weeks ago, I did my last shift and I always tried to pick the ones, you know, where where there's actually need for help. so you get, you know, the adrenaline, adrenaline flowing and get to be part of the action. I really like to work. Work shifts.
Carl:Yeah. And that that keeps you, closely itself. You you feel it? and then, you you were five outlets after three years. at what time did did NoHo became a partner, actually.
Isak:Yeah. So we can skip ahead a couple of years. And we had we had ten locations in, in or 9 or 10 locations in 2019. And we had at some point, you know, the we have been looking for, for, for a partner and, and NoHo the NoHo deal was well, so some context now is one of the biggest or the biggest, restaurant group in the Nordics, and they have around 300 locations. and we had discussions with them and we signed the deal in 2020, early 2020, I think it was January and then the deal closed in April, 2020. So just after Covid had started, it was quite, quite a hectic time to, for, for the acquisition. Yeah.
Carl:So you signed the deal right before Covid and How did how did the partner. How did NoHo react on this, and then how did they support you?
Isak:Yeah, I think Noah has been a great partner had a quite, you know stressful start of the integration and the and and since it was very, very different in in the spring of 2020 for the restaurant business. But I think throughout this there have been a good, you know, strategic partner and they've been we've learned a lot from them in terms of, you know, building the the chain and putting in place better processes to to ensure that we're, we're performing as well as possible. I think I think it's been really, really good. And they also, they allow us to or we still operate as our own chain within the group. So I think the setup we have is very beneficial for, for both.
Carl:Yeah. So so NoHo NoHo was actually brought on Can I say it like that to, to, to let's say change the procedures or improve the procedures? or do I misunderstand?
Isak:No, that's that's, certainly one of the going into the next growth phase of Friends& Brgrs, it was it was the right time to look for a partner. Yeah.
Carl:And if you then, if you then talk to a strategic partner, what are the, what were the goals that you set yourself together with the partner? And where are you in terms of executing on that? on that trajectory?
Isak:Yeah. So when we joined, we had, ten Finland. And then, of course, that goal was set before Covid. So then, you know, maybe slowed down a bit there. However, we did grow through throughout Covid, I think depending on when you say when when Covid actually ended. I don't know the exact date, but, we opened about 15 locations during Covid, so we still kept growing, but but maybe not as aggressively as we would have done without it. so yeah, 50 was the target set then? and now we're at 29 and the plan is to keep going. So I think in terms of, of growth, we're, you know, a bit behind, but for, for understandable reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carl:And, and but these 50 locations are still, specifics about when and etc., but the goal is still to get to 50.
Isak:Yeah. I think that what's publicly shared is five locations per year, right?
Carl:Okay.
Isak:That's that's what we're doing now.
Carl:All right. And, once, once you are at 28, the structure, the management structure, etc. changed again. can you elaborate a little bit on on the changes in management that that came through after the investment happened?
Isak:Yeah. So, well, it's been changing a couple throughout the whole whole, ten years here. I think what the stage we've gone through now is moving into area managers. So we have, the restaurants and then they are, managed or led by an area manager and then then, they are part the area managers are part of my team. So that's one of the big steps we've taken in the last, actually just over a year. and that seems to be a good solution for us. and otherwise, we've strengthened the management team. As I said, we've, most of the the management team has been, people that have joined Friends & Brgrs eight years or longer ago and have grown with the company. And I'm really, you know, personally, I'm personally I'm very happy and thankful that we have a lot of colleagues that, you know, have been part of the journey. But then we also brought in some, some external hires to to strengthen the the different theory of the business.
Carl:And your role changed as well, I guess you You're the chief operating officer of the business. what are the KPIs? What are the metrics of success, for you?
Isak:Yeah, I think, it's a balancing act always, your people, and then you can measure that in different ways, and then you take care of your staff, and then you take care of the profitability. And if you can do all of these three, then, then that's, that's that's all you. So it's quite simple, but it's not easy.
Carl:So can I, can I reiterate here, you say first profitability.
Isak:Or staff customer profitability in that
Carl:Okay. All right. That's a that's a nice one. And how many people do you kind of, directly guide.
Isak:Yeah. So we have four area managers at the
Carl:Yeah. So, so you are the direct head of, of Yeah. Correct. All right. And what is the what what are the KPIs? You, you steer them on.
Isak:So underneath all these three categories, you say in general for, for a chain, you know, you have for, for staff, you would have, for example, you can have the enps, which we also follow. That's an important one. I can't share specific but that's that's when we look at. And then for staff, we, we, we follow the NPS score that they can. They give us and also scores on the delivery platforms. And then in terms of profitability, you know, you have the restaurant business I think is is interesting in that way because it's so simple. You have to make sure you know that the sales are growing and then manage your costs. So something's left on the on the bottom line. And yeah, very simple but but difficult.
Carl:Absolutely. I was smiling a little bit when is simple. But in reality of course, I guess there is there is quite some difficulties to overcome in, in managing a restaurant and making it profitable. can you, can you explain a little bit how you manage this and what measures you take to make sure that there is a bottom line, a positive bottom line? What are the what are the things you're looking at to make sure that in the end, you, you know, you can report positive
Isak:Yeah, I think yeah, that's a great question. Friends & Brgrs. Historically, I think the whole team has been very interested in learning about the business and having data available and actually talking to customers and getting, you know, always having up to date information on what's actually going on and how we can impact or improve what we're doing. So I think that's something that we've been working a lot on and, and has been a way that we have made sure to, to keep, a healthy profitability, even even during, you know, challenging times as Covid and, and the inflation in the last couple of years. So it's been it's been a lot about about learning, about what customers, staff or customers and staff say or what they're feeling and, and looking at the financial and then making that information as available as possible to the people actually working on the shifts.
Carl:So everybody is involved in, in, in making It's not just a management job. It's it's everybody's job.
Isak:Yeah, exactly. And I think we have we have some of the best people in hospitality working for Friends & Brgrs, you know, throughout the whole company. We have great, great people, you know, from from the restaurant workers to the shift managers, assistant managers and restaurant managers. And we have we have we have great people. So we we just need to make sure that they have the tools they need to to execute. And that's that's what we try to do. And that's that's why I do shifts. So I can actually see if we're succeeding or not. Yeah. all right. I think that's the, the main thing that we've been trying to do and, and sometimes done successfully.
Carl:And if you then look at, you know, the especially 30 restaurants, how do you, how do you maintain and, and safeguard standardization of, of what you are offering because of course, every, every burger needs to be basically the same. How do you put that in place and how do you make sure that these things are happening the way you want it to happen?
Isak:Yeah, that's a that's the whole like the big Trying to to standardize and get every experience to be as good as, as the next one. it's a, it's a big challenge for us. And, you know, especially I think a big part of Frans Van Burger's brand is that we use local fresh products and then we make it in-house, we bake our buns ourselves, and we grind the beef in-house, and, and and this, you know, it's a it's a great benefit to the customers. But also there's risk risks to, to still have inconsistent quality. So for us, we've been working a lot with, you know, trying to make again the correct instructions and, you know, pictures of the products available and as accessible as possible. so that's one thing. And then and then you know, working on trying to improve the training process, trying to make sure we're we're, you know, allocating enough, enough hours to training new staff. And then it's done in a structured, structured way where everyone gets the correct and necessary training. And then, you know, then we follow up and try to have, you know, audits and see if we actually are succeeding. And if we're not, then we look in the mirror and try to see what we can improve to, to make sure that the, the guest experience is, is getting better each day.
Carl:And, if you if you say that, you know, each buns and the, the grinding of the meat, have you ever internally discussions about opening a central production unit, where you do this for all of your locations and you just drive to these locations so you kind of eliminate the uncertainty of the standardization or the lack of standardization?
Isak:Yes, of course. You know, that's many times throughout the years and and actually, a funny thing is that when we opened the first restaurant, we did not grind our beef. We did not bake the buns. So that's something we in-sourced in 2015 or 2016. And so we actually went the other way around first brought the bakery into the restaurant. But we're looking into that, of course. And the point with Friends & Brgrs is not that we specifically that we're making our buns in house, it's that we want to make a great product, a great burger and fries to as many people as possible and, you know, give them a better option compared to a traditional fast food and, and be a better place to work for, for the restaurant workers in Finland. And that's the main goal. And then at this time to the concept is like it is today. But if we can find a better way to make better burgers or make it better for the customers or the staff, then you know, we're always evaluating options. But at this time, you know, we're not. We like what we're doing and it seems to be working. So it's nothing. Nothing big is going to happen in the near future. But that's not the main point of Friends & Brgrs. No, no. So yes, yes, we have, you know, always looking at all the options of trying to improve.
Carl:Yeah. All right. And Oh and actually.
Isak:Can I add I would never I wouldn't recommend it. It's a headache. But when we kind of maybe figured it out. So for us it's working quite well. But, there's a reason why very few burger chains do it this way. Yeah.
Carl:Okay. And if, if you, if you can from a cost between buying it or insourcing it or doing it yourself? And what's the what what could be the most profitable of the two.
Isak:Yeah, yeah. We've also done that math A many a lot of things to take into consideration, but I think maybe, you know, I won't comment too much on, on the specific but. No, no, you know, what's what's clearly true, at least, is that when you do something yourself, you usually buy some a raw material that's less expensive. And then but then you put in, you have to put in, you know, working hours. Mhm. and that's you really need to, to, to, you know, figure out the processes and, and, and the equipment you need and, and stuff like this to, to get it to work and it's, it's taking a lot of, a lot of hard work by a lot of brilliant people in at Friends & Brgrs to, to get this and get this working.
Carl:Without going into specific Can you give us a would be better to in-source or to do it yourself in terms of cost today?
Isak:I think there's, you.
Carl:Know, you might choose the other one because but from a cost perspective.
Isak:Yeah, for for us the quality is there is the way to do the best. Give, give, give the customer what's best. I think even, even when it comes to things like this and you think with it's quite easy to calculate. But then again you have to, you know, make different on the effect on brand and and the effect on, on, you know, what's the effect of, of removing complexity from the operations. So I won't give you an answer that unfortunately you have to. There's a there's some hard but then you have to, you know.
Carl:Yeah, I, I totally understand that you don't We we discussed this beforehand. No, no problem there. but I think in between the lines, I can I can maybe read that, you need to do some serious calculations and that there is some benefits to the one and some benefits to the other.
Isak:So exactly, I think I think for us. Yeah, exactly. I completely agree. And, and and for us, as I said, you know, we're looking to do the best choice for, for our staff and our customers and, and that's, that's our, our, you know, our job. All right.
Carl:something else. obviously we know that you, you, let's say the the goal is still to get to 50, restaurants in the near future. what is, according to you, the key, to find and keep the talent in the business.
Isak:Yeah, I think, that's a that's another really for us, it's been, one of our values is to treat people the way that you want to be treated. and this applies to for everyone in the company. And, really, regardless of who you're talking with or about, you know, if it's customers or guests or partners. And I think that's maybe the core of of when it comes to, retaining staff. You know, you have to do the basics right. You have to treat people with respect and, and get all the basics. You know, if we're talking about restaurant workers, you know, get the shifts out on time and, and consider their, you know, wishes or, or, in terms of shifts, you know, have a safe working environment with a, you know, restaurant manager who listens to you and, and respects you and, and give everyone a chance to succeed, you know, just get the basics right and then you can add on, you know, staff parties or benefits on top. But getting the basics right is the most, most important thing. And that's what we have been really focusing on. And then I think an added benefit, this is like the main thing. But then another benefit is, is if you have a brand or a product that, you know, customers like, I think at least for me personally, it's been really it's been much more interesting to work with friends and Berger, since we know that our customers really like what we're doing. They appreciate the the decisions we made in terms of the product and raw materials and, and it's so much more interesting and fun to sell something that people actually want and appreciate. So I think that's maybe a I'll add that as you know, as a small, you know, extra. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carl:I get that. so, maybe to move on to another topic that I wanted to, to ask you is, how about technological innovation? running a 30, 30 outlets? I probably that not everything is on pen and paper. what is the technology? What are the technologies you are using within the business today?
Isak:Yeah, it's there's a there's a quite a lot. I think I think from the beginning we've been quite well where such a new company. So we don't have any legacy systems lying around. And, and from the beginning we kind of did a lot of, you know, quick and dirty things. And one of the founders and, and who also worked in the company used to do some coding. So we've, we've done we've had quite a maybe a different approach to, to this from the beginning. and we've built, for example, our own ERP system, together with a partner. And we've built, we also built our own shift reporting platform, which has now been retired. But we used it for eight years, and we built that quite early. And, and, you know, a lot of, you know, reporting models and, and, customer feedback survey surveys and stuff like this has been, you know, we've made a lot of these ourselves, which has been quite beneficial because, you know, then you can customize it. You can learn a lot along the way and you really get to to dive into the data and, and build the tools in a way that's suitable for us. So I think right now we we are quite we don't have a lot of pen and paper. I think it's only a couple a few things that we still do with pen and paper just and that's because we've tried the technical or like the digital solution, and it hasn't been as good for some things. You know, you really just need pen and paper. Yeah, yeah.
Carl:Yeah, yeah. That's like for some things Excel calculations. So. So I totally get that. Yeah. Precisely. No that's interesting. maybe maybe a more personal question. you've been with with, the business now for ten years. can you define what success means for you and when you feel accomplished and maybe in the past ten years, but also, what will success be for you in the coming ten years?
Isak:Yeah, I think for me, it's it's really quite I think it's two things come to come to mind. One is I really, personally I enjoy solving problems. I think it's very interesting when you have a challenge and you at first you maybe don't really know how to approach it or or what what the right solution will be. But then, you know, you look at it a bit and maybe discuss with some other people and, and get some insights, some data, and then you try some solution. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. And then you iterate and then you launch it and then you see the the how it can impact the business. I think that's really been for me very interesting and something that I think it's been very, enjoyable to see, you know, how we can find solutions to different problems and, and implement them. And then the second thing for me would be I really enjoy working with, you know, positive and, and driven people. And we've had so many of them at Friends & Brgrs and still have, you know, my colleagues in the management team and the restaurant managers we have and the people working in the restaurants, they are really doing an amazing job. And and for me, that's very motivating. You know, when I call a colleague, I, I can talk with someone who can challenge my ideas and give positive feedback. And together, you know, we're sitting on the same side of the table trying to attack the problem. So this combination has, has for me been been what's been the best with Friends& Brgrs throughout the ten years. And if I if this if I can keep doing these two things, you know, solving difficult problems with, with great people, then I think that's going to that would be a success.
Carl:All right. That's a very nice one. we're nearly at the end of our conversation. Isak. one one last question I ask every business, man in this show is, what about the next, five years in food. What are the trends you are seeing and what is what is the next big thing in the industry?
Isak:Yeah, I don't think I have anything, very people are in terms of food, people are looking for better, for more local, maybe more sustainable as well. and I think that's what we're, we're seeing in, in, in Europe. you know, people are choosing instead of the global brands. They want something that's more, more fresh, more healthy, more more local. And, and this trend has been it's been, it's been going for, for, for at least, let's say ten years. And I think it's still, it's still, a very strong trend that I see going. Another one I would say is that the the employer employee relationship has changed quite a lot. And I think I haven't even seen maybe what it was like 20 years ago, but especially now, you know, with social media and, and everyone, you know, having access to, to better information. I think the employees demand more of the employer. I think this is a great thing. You know, there's a balancing of of power. And at Friends & Brgrs, we we always understood that we need to treat our staff well. And that's the way, the way we're going to continue to work. But I think there's been a shift in terms of the power dynamic over the last ten years. And I think it's it's that's something that's still going to keep balancing out throughout the next five years.
Carl:That's an interesting insight. Most people talk about food, but I like this, this, this, this vision about the balance between employer and employee. That's a very nice one to end on. Isak, thank you very much for this conversation. Thank you very much for being in the show. and, speak to you later.
Isak:Yeah. Thank you. Carl.
Carl:Goodbye. Goodbye.
