Solidarity from Afar | The Islamic Center of Asheville

Since Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, Islamophobia and antisemitism are on the rise across the United States. That inspired me to reach out to leaders of the Islamic Center of Asheville and two of Asheville’s synagogues. I’m devoting this week’s episodes to those conversations.

Today, I speak with Nasser Ostah, who moved from Jordan a little over a year ago, to become the imam of the Islamic Center of Asheville. Joining us is longtime center member and community leader Khalid Bashir.

From both the Islamic and Judaic angles, I wanted to understand their local histories and ask how their congregations are processing the war. I also wanted to learn about any incidents of vocal or violent blowback in their directions and ask about any roles their congregations can play to make differences in Asheville and beyond.

Note: Royalty-free music for this episode "Warm Solitude, Cold Loneliness" by Arthur Vyncke.

Wake Up, Asheville! and ¡Despierta Asheville!  (in Spanish) are new morning newscast podcasts that give you all the local news you need to know in under five minutes. Both are free to subscribe/follow wherever you get your podcasts!

Transcript

Matt Peiken: How long ago was the Islamic Center of Asheville founded?

Khalid Bashir: So the Islamic center of Asheville has been here in some shape and form since the mid 1980s. But this particular center was built in around 2005.

Matt Peiken: So tell me, how many imams in your time here have been part of this center? Are imams brought here from the Middle East regularly? 

Khalid Bashir: No, no, most of the time we have imams from here. But we have had some imams which came and helped us out. But mostly we've been just volunteer imams have been in this center. 

Matt Peiken: Give me a sense of what the population is here. How large is your congregation? 

Khalid Bashir: So we don't keep census and usually like this Friday, today, this is our biggest congregational prayers once a week on Fridays.

And I think we might have, 100, 125, 250 families in the Asheville area but we do catch people from Brevard and from Hendersonville because there is no Islamic center in around 40, 50 mile radius. 

Matt Peiken: Really? So probably the closest might be in like Greenville. 

Khalid Bashir: Greenville, Johnson City. On the west and then Hickory, maybe.

Matt Peiken: How long have you lived in Asheville? About 23 years. Where did you move here from? Chicago. Chicago. Yeah. Tell me what was life like for you in your faith, in Chicago, and what was it like for you coming to the Appalachian South? I imagine it must have been very different. 

Khalid Bashir: Obviously Chicago is, more cosmopolitan, bigger place, lot of Muslims. More culture, more history there. This has been a smaller place, but the smaller places have their advantages too. One is that you get to know everybody. For example, in this center, you know, I know most of the people who come and go. And they are more friendly, more involved. 

So that's the advantage of a smaller community is that you get to know everybody and you're involved much more than a bigger center where there's just too many people.

Matt Peiken: But I also imagine when you're in a bigger center in a place like Chicago, there are so many more practicing in your faith that you probably feel like you're part of a large community.

I would imagine here and correct me if I'm wrong. There aren't that many practicing the Islamic faith, practicing Muslims. 

Khalid Bashir: That's the biggest difference. If you have more people to know, more people to meet, more people to socialize, which is, could be a challenge in a smaller community like this.

Matt Peiken: So tell me Imam, coming from Jordan, was this your first assignment? First time being in the United States leading a congregation? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Actually, as a imam, as a contract for work, I have been here in America for a visit. I went to Memphis, Tennessee. Okay. I have my friends there, but as a volunteer with them and their mosques there in Memphis, but I told you as with the contract, this is the first time, yeah, for me and here in America.

Matt Peiken: Were you practicing as an imam in Jordan? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Yes. Actually, yes. I used to be as an imam for more than 20 years ago. Wow. Yes. I have a, master degree in Islamic teachings. Yeah, from the universities there in Jordan. 

Matt Peiken: I imagine it was a culture shift for you, as well as maybe even a shift on how faith is practiced.

When you're in Jordan, in the heart of Islamic faith, in the heart of Islamic teachings and practice, what were your biggest adjustments or what were your biggest surprises coming to the United States to lead a congregation here. What's different? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Actually, our belief in Islam is a universe religion.

So you can practice your religion everywhere and Anywhere and every time. Of course, the practice in Jordan, all the community there, the majority, I'm talking about 99 percent they are Muslims. So you can find all of practices around you and mosques and the streets, houses, neighbors, friends, all of these things.

Yes, I found this. This gap to come here, but we still humans. So the humanity you can treat with anyone around you as neighbors, especially here in Asheville, I feel the good persons peacefully, environments. So actually my treatments with the people. It's very nice and in kind, I can practice all of my Islamic teachings for free.

Matt Peiken: It's interesting to me. I noticed you were speaking both in Arabic and in English. Obviously you don't have to do that when you're in Jordan and you mentioned that there's mosques everywhere in Jordan. Tell me if I'm wrong in this. When you're in Jordan, your faith is infused in your life all the time.

And you have certain prayer times, but you live your life in faith. It has to be somewhat differently than here where there are prescribed times for prayer, but just general life out in Asheville is just so different. It's not led outwardly by faith. Am I wrong in that? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Actually, I'm focusing in my religion here more.

Why? Because now it's different. You need to look too much about your practice. Is it right or wrong? You are now working with the habits here or not, especially there's some many people's they are against your practicing, but it's nice to always looking about your faith and your practice. Is it right or wrong?

We have. I think all of us, as a Muslims to look about these things. So it's more related with our mosque, with our Islamic center, with our brothers and sisters here around us. To look to look carefully about your practice. Yeah, because in my country it's like a habit. Even we are doing all of our practice like a habit, so sometimes you missing the test.

Here, no, you will find even the test because you are knowing you are do your practice and there's many environment. It's not like your Islamic teachings, but as a humanity, it's close. 

Matt Peiken: When you mention a test, what do you mean? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: A test, which mean you are try to looking about your faith in your heart. Is it still?

Or increase or decrease. Why? As I told you, there's many habits around you, many practicing right? It's not from Islam. Not from Islam. So I still doing my teachings correctly or not. But, what is one of the best things here. To find everything around you didn't push you away from your religion. Because as I told you, there's many neighbors.

I humbly, I thanks to God. I found many good relationship with a community here, even from non Muslims and this connecting actually, it's improve my skills in many things here. And this has pushed me forward. to catch my religion and my teachings more and more. 

Khalid Bashir: What Imam is saying is that since it is such a different environment, then you have to really safeguard your practices much more than when you are back home because that, over there, it's a habit. Everything is accordingly, but here there are so many distractions and there are so many other things and possibilities and other things.

But you have to really work a little bit harder and you have to strive to do the right things or to practice your religion. 

Matt Peiken: Talk about that a little more in terms of safeguarding your practices. What sorts of outside environments or elements challenge your practices and what do you have to safeguard against?

Khalid Bashir: Safeguard against, most of the people are busy with their lives. They have, they're not into into their religions. For example, everybody is busy with life, parties, shopping Their 

Matt Peiken: phones, the screens. 

Khalid Bashir: I think it's, phone is everywhere. Phone is everywhere.

But, for a person who practices there are a lot of distractions, there is there's other kind of other cultures, 

Matt Peiken: Imam, is that what you were speaking to a little bit that in Jordan, there aren't as many distractions because faith is more central to life there.

Is that what you were alluding to? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Actually distractions everywhere. Okay. Even our communities, not all the people actually have the commitment about their religion. There is a lot of distractions. They take them away from their practicing. They're not all Muslims at what Islam ordered to do.

They sometimes or many times leaving their teachings, their practicing from Islam. Here, the distractions, I think close, close, but in another way, in another shape, in another version of Kabiz. But still, there's many distractions, and this is make me as a Muslim, to looking more and more about my faith, and even my teachings and practicing in my religion.

Matt Peiken: Now, faith is practiced very individually, it's a very personal thing. You've lived here a long time. We are in a very Christian environment here. Lots of churches, Catholic, Baptist, lots of different elements of the Christian faith. Does that challenge at all living and practicing as a Muslim?

Khalid Bashir: I did not find it different. I don't think the churches or the Christians are coming and telling us not to practice your religion or trying to create obstructions for us. We have not experienced any such thing. I think we are more free to practice. I think it's easy.

The 9/11 changed a few things and then this Palestinian war has changed a few things and, people a little bit more aggressive. But I think it has not reached a level where you feel unsafe on the street or at other things. I don't think it has gone there, but will it go there? Don't know. 

Matt Peiken: I was going to ask about that. You mentioned 9 11, you alluded to that, and also the current conflict happening in Israel and Gaza. Have you or your congregation reported any sort of anti -Islamic sentiments? Anything that's happened within your population here that, that has concerned anybody that they've come to you with?

Khalid Bashir: I think at individual levels there were a couple of reports of people saying something and I don't have the exact details, but there were a few, not a very common thing. 

Matt Peiken: So have you spoken to this in your sermons? Do you call it a sermon? By the way? I want to use the proper term. 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Khutbah? Khutbah, yeah. Khutbah. It's a sermon, yeah. It's khutbah in Arabic. 

Matt Peiken: So have you addressed this? Obviously it's a world conflict, it's happening there, but it affects everybody. Is this something you've talked about in your khutbah?

Imam Nasser Ostah: Actually our sermon, it's not a news, it's not a social media. Our sermon in Islam, it's really to redirect, to rectify the society, individually or a group or all of the common society for us. So we don't make our sermon or khutba just like a news report. Yeah, just, you need to know blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

No. What we have to do upon all of these things happening around us, politic, economic, socialist, all of these things. We need to rectify the people. What is the right opinions in Islam, the teachings, the right teachings from Islam that will redirect and rectify all of your behaviors and morals with all of these situations.

This is actually our turns and our tasks, missions here as a Muslim leader, as an Imam. And all of us like this, just if there's some problems and there's some bad actions from somebody or a person, no, come on, you have to rectify your action, because it's incorrect, or this is correct, or go ahead and encourage him.

Matt Peiken: You just said something made me think about what you talked about today. You talked a lot about don't talk bad about your neighbor. What prompted today's sermon or chutba? What prompted that today? Was there any specific event that happened that inspired this, or is this just in general you wanted to talk about it?

Imam Nasser Ostah: Okay. As I told you, our sermon or our khutbah, actually, it's not about what people want, but about what people need to know. Now we have a lot of things around us, like what I, what brother said about Palestinian now and everything's around us happening. We listening from many people, Muslims or non Muslims, sometimes bad reactions or good reactions.

So what we have to do, what we have to say, what is the correct thing must be do during all of these actions, events around us. This is actually the subject I talked about it this day. 

Matt Peiken: Do you consult with other imams and clerics about just how to interpret the Quran in these instances or do you really go on your own in your, from what you've learned in your teachings?

Imam Nasser Ostah: Actually, as I told you, I'm fresh here in the U. S. I now didn't have this opportunity to talk with other imams, so the majority of my khutbahs are from me. I prepare it and I try to put inside it what is the important and what is the most important to talk with the people. Around the world, yes. There's many in conference between Imams, between scholars to talk about all of the events around the world. This is concern all Muslims around the world. Yeah. 

Matt Peiken: You said that you've heard talk, at least from a few people, maybe that there might have been some anti Islamic sentiments, but nothing major that has happened.

Have you and your fellow congregants just talked about what's happening and how to respond? Should there be any larger sentiment about, well, the Islamic community should do this, or they should respond a certain way. 

Khalid Bashir: I think we, at least I, we had a session here two weeks ago. We did try to educate, we invited a lot of people, Muslims and non Muslims to learn about the plight of the Palestinian people and what's going on. And we also participated in, a lot of people participated in the pro Palestinian march in downtown. So I think the most important thing for us is not to tell people what's right and wrong, but is to educate people.

People who are literate, who have common sense, who has a little bit of a just heart, who are not biased, who are not biased against Muslims without any reason or not, if they read about the history of Palestine, If they educate themselves and they look at the events, what's been going on 75 years and how many Palestinians have died and how many Israelis have died, they would come to the right conclusion by themselves.

I don't have to tell them anything. There is material, there is true education, there are books, there are movies, there is history. Which will teach anybody who is keen to learn about Palestinian issues objectively, when you're talking, it doesn't have to be subjective from me or from the Imam.

They have to educate themself and they'll come to the right conclusion themselves. 

Matt Peiken: When you're talking about educating or you're talking about just 

Khalid Bashir: historical education, what is the plight of the people? Because some of these Palestinians have seen it by themself. They have experienced by themself.

They have experienced the misery of living there. They have experienced the humiliation caused by the army, IDF and the Israeli army of moving from one spot to another, which usually takes five minutes. It could take them five hours to move from one spot to another, going from one village to another.

So yes, so that, that is part of the education too, so that people know that this is their living in almost in an apartheid kind of conditions and which is not foreign to the people. We saw that in South Africa and we've seen it in before and at the end of the day, people who were resisting even, who were called traitors or terrorists, they come out on the top and they were the right people for the African people in South Africa.

It was not The people who were calling them terrorists were the right ones. 

Matt Peiken: I think, a lot of people who coming out of World War II and looking at a home for Jews who were displaced and a general sense let's have a safe space for Jews when there is no other safe space in the world. That's when Israel, or at least in 1948 was created. 

Khalid Bashir: So if you are so kind, you put them in your own house, not to snatch other people's house and put them there. 

Matt Peiken: So do you know what I'm saying? 

Khalid Bashir: I do know what you're saying. I think that if the Britishers. And the Americans wanted to do that or the Europeans wanted to do that, they should have done it on their own. They have land. So you, I'm not, if you, if I'm kind to somebody, I'm not going to, steal from him and give it to you if you need something. If I want to be kind and I won't give it to you, I'm going to give it to myself. That is the proper way of doing it.

So the, just the idea, let's take these Jews who have suffered, understandable, we do not deny that. There was great suffering for the Jewish people, but that doesn't mean that you snatch from other people, you steal other people's land and give it to them. Just because you're in power and you're strong.

Matt Peiken: Do you think the very, and we're not going to solve this issue right now, or go super deep into it, but I do think the heart of the conflict is there a possibility for a home for both in that region of the Middle East? And I think the two state solution has been talked about for decades and a shared Jerusalem. Is that impossible? Is that just something that just is not tenable from an Islamic standpoint, from the Palestinian standpoint? 

Khalid Bashir: From an Islamic standpoint of view, it is not impossible. But I don't see that coming from the from the Israel at this present. And if you listen to some of the presidents I listen to even if you listen to Trump or even if you listen to Obama. They have clearly said that Netanyahu is not interested in a Palestinian state. 

Matt Peiken: If you take Netanyahu out of the equation, and just take what maybe a predominant a majority of Jews would want to see ...

Khalid Bashir: That is the most common solution which has been propagated by the powers of the world. And I think it is possible. But I think the problem is that if we are not objective and if we are not just, And I meant by Americans, because I'm an American too, and Europeans, if we are not objective and if we are not just to both sides, then that solution will not come through and that's why it has not happened.

Matt Peiken: Let me ask you, Imam, is there a danger of people conflating Hamas with Palestinians, with people who practice Islam? What is your thought and position about where Hamas is and at least in America, people may be not understanding about the relationship between Hamas and the larger Islamic public.

Imam Nasser Ostah: Actually, I want to talk with you about the point of view of Islam from our prophet, peace be upon him time when he came to Medina, it's the city in Saudi Arabia. When he immigrated from Mecca to Medina, there is guests come to Medina and actually they shared each other with everything and you can just imagine that when he came to Medina, there were many Arab tribes, non Muslims, many Jewish tribes, non Muslims, and we have the majority now, they are Muslims, how they live together in peace. You have the right to do everything you want in trading, even in worshipping, even about your church.

Or if everything you want to do it, just respect the rule, the law, this is what you have to do. So it's easy. Just be justice. As my brother said here, Dr. Khaled, just be justice, be fair, and you will find the peace. Imagine yourself, my roots from Palestine, from Hebron, El Khalil.

Just imagine in 1967. My father and his family and my mom and her family, all of them, they were kicked out from Palestine to Jordan. Just put yourself in their position. How is your feel? You will find it unjustice. 

Matt Peiken: That's how your family Became in Jordan was being kicked out of Hebron. Yes.

And Jerusalem. And Jerusalem. Do you think Jerusalem is really the crux of all of this? That if there was a way for Palestinians and Israelis, for Jews and Muslims, to share Jerusalem, would that be the key to ending this thousands years war? 

Khalid Bashir: The whole land is becoming an issue, because everybody's not going to be able to live in Jerusalem, right? 

Matt Peiken: They may not live in Jerusalem, but it is seen as iconic.

Khalid Bashir: Jerusalem is iconic because there's, it is very sacred to the Muslims. They have the third holiest place for the Muslims. 

Matt Peiken: Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Everything is there. 

Khalid Bashir: And the Masjid Aqsa Mosque. That's the third holiest place after Mecca and Medina for the Muslims. And then don't count the Christians out.

Christians have a very big stake there, too. So I think they should be able to have a share too.

Matt Peiken: So it's certainly much more complicated than simply Jews and Muslims. 

Khalid Bashir: Yeah, and I think they could share that. But as I said, everybody's not going to be living in Jerusalem. For Palestinians, it becomes a matter Of their land, of their farms, of their houses it's just that everything is being taken away. 

Matt Peiken: What is the role of local Muslims, local people who practice in your faith, to help present a salve over this conflict? 

Khalid Bashir: I think the role is that all people should be educated and they should, once they're educated, they should ask their representatives to enforce a just solution. 

Matt Peiken: What would be that just solution in your eyes? 

Khalid Bashir: Look, the just solution would be that people who have their lands, they should go back to their homes, right?

Would that not be just solution? If there's going to be two states, then there should be two states based on some equality and some justice. If you try to be unjust and force the solution for, yeah, it might last six months, one year, but it's going to be, you know, we've seen that 75 years, it's, it has escalated, it hasn't gone away, and it will not go away.

Matt Peiken: Imam, what would you like our community at large to know about what your teachings are telling you? How people should react locally? If there is any messages that you want beyond your khutbah. 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Our Islam is lifestyle. It's not just inside the masjid, the mosque, it's lifestyle, it's practicing, it's behaviors and morals we have to treat with all people, with all of our teachings in Islam.

Some Muslims, they don't actually follow the exact teachings of Islam. For this, sometimes you can see some bad behaviors. For example, we can't consider ISIS as a Muslims. They claim that they're so, they are Muslims, but their actions, it's against the Islam. This is not Islam, and this is not the Muslims behaviors and deeds. We can't call that Al Qaeda. They are Muslim. We can't call them non Muslims, but they still, they don't understand the exact teachings of Islam.

If you want to see the right point of view of Islam, just follow the teachings of Islam from Quran. And the Sunnah, which is the teachings, sayings and speech and deeds of our prophet, peace be upon him. Islam in this land for 1400 years ago, and you can make any research in the history, even in the books of the non Muslims who talking actually an open mind about Islam, you will find non spot in any place and in any time that Islam ruled these places and you will find that injustice in these places or in these times. Always Islam following the justice. 

Matt Peiken: You mentioned that ISIS is not, you mentioned Al Qaeda is not. Would, do you also extend that to Hamas? That they are not Muslims?

Imam Nasser Ostah: I told you, even I, if I said ISIS or Al Qaeda, they don't follow the exact ruling of Islam, but I can't call them they are non Muslims. They are Muslims, but they don't follow the exact teachings of Islam. They're following the understanding of their desires and whims. 

Matt Peiken: Would you extend that same sentiment to Hamas?

Khalid Bashir: Let me ask you that question. Sure. Question for a question. Yeah. Do people who are occupied. Do they have the right to resist? Oh, of course. Is there a UNO or is there a world order where there's people who are occupied, they have the right to resist? 

Matt Peiken: Of course. But resist can be interpreted in many different ways and can be expressed in many different ways.

You talked about the protest in downtown. That was, that's resisting. 

Khalid Bashir: Yes. So I think if killing of innocent people from either side is obviously not acceptable to anybody. Innocent people. Kids, women. Over there. I think that's below humanity. We have to respect that. But so from that point of view, yes, it's anybody who's doing that, it's not even in whatever shape and form. It's not acceptable. But at the same time, there is going to be You know, for the last since 2008 or since Gaza has been under control of Hamas. If you look at it there every day, there are people are killed every day.

So you can't expect people that you keep killing them. And whenever they react to tell them, Oh, they're anti Semite. They're terrorist. There is going to be some sort of a reaction from people who are being treated that badly. So I think that's where we have to understand that.

But at the same time, we cannot You know, say that the fact that children and women are being killed, that they're justifiable.

Matt Peiken: Even men or civilians, there's some, people talk about women and children. 

Khalid Bashir: I think those are usually the, the number ones which come up, because I think 

Matt Peiken: they embody the innocent.

Khalid Bashir: Yeah. Yeah. It was usually because I think the men may be fighting or they may be resisting and they may fight. 

Matt Peiken: But I just thought it was interesting that when you brought up Imam, when you brought up ISIS and Al Qaeda, I think a lot of people think those are the terrorists, quote unquote, of yesteryear, from 9 11 and the vapors of that, and that Hamas, people know that they carried out this attack on October 7th, and I was just wondering if you see them in the same light as they are Muslims, but not following the exact teachings of the Quran would you extend that in the way that you said that ISIS and Al Qaeda? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Matt, that's right.

Yeah, actually you will not find any Muslim support the world of ISIS or Al Qaeda. But now, you will find many people around the world, even non Muslims, sometimes they call themselves Hamas. Why do you think that? 

Matt Peiken: Oh, I didn't know that. Why is that? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Why do you think that? Or, at least, we are Ghazis. We are Ghazis.

Even if they don't Ghazans, you mean? Yeah. Okay. Let us leave the nickname. The nickname. Now, what is your task if there's anyone attacked your family, your babies, your men, your women, your What is your task in this?

Now you can see some Jewish people now here in United States and around the world. They refused the behaviors of Israeli. Yeah. Yeah. 

Khalid Bashir: We had on the march we had, there were several Jewish people there. 

Matt Peiken: Oh, I'm sure there were. 

Khalid Bashir: There were several of them 

Matt Peiken: And, let's be clear, even within Judaism, there's a big divide. 

Khalid Bashir: Our support is for the Palestinian people. We're not necessarily standing here and supporting PLO or Hamas or anything. We are here to support the innocent people of Palestinians who are being killed, who are being butchered. They're not Hamas. And their children are not less than American children or Jewish children. So where is the condemnation of the Israel? They have killed more than 10, 000. 

Matt Peiken: I do think there is a condemnation, but I think people see disregard the previous 75 years, they say, Hamas started this, people see just what happened on October 7th and saying Hamas escalated this and not Jews, but Israel's government is responding to that.

I think that's what that when people want to be selective about looking at a window of time. So when you're saying about the response, I do think there is a global condemnation. 

I know that there's a rabbi in town who wants to reach out to you. It's a very progressive congregation, wants to get something going. Do you see a role here in our small little community for the Islamic center of Asheville and for local Jewish leaders to come together in a certain Solidarity around the human rights abuses that are happening around this? 

Khalid Bashir: Yeah, I think obviously, it is, there is nothing wrong with that.

There is, it's all possible, but I think the most important message from the Islamic center to all Jewish and all Christians is that, that, there should be no violence against each other. We as a community need to live as a community. We need to respect each other. The the conflict is not here physically.

But yes, there are going to be conflict of opinions, but it should stay to that extent and should not be propagated beyond that. 

Matt Peiken: Is there anything we have not talked about around your congregation about activities coming up? Any, anything public? Anything that you want people who are not part of the Islamic Center to understand about your people and your faith or just your activities here?

Khalid Bashir: I think for the public, I would say, look, everybody is welcome. Especially on Fridays when we have our congregational prayers, we used to have a lot of churches even some synagogue and some Unitarian churches, their students, they have come and visited us.

Some of the newer teachers were training, they come here and we welcome them. And our message is that of just peace, educate peace and let people make their own decisions. And there is no hidden agenda here. There is no propagating of any sort of violence in this in this masjid.

And our main activity is to teach our community about Islam and how to cope with these newer situations, these tougher situations and these new, in the modern times. 

Matt Peiken: Imam, I want to ask you to close this conversation. Do you feel at home here? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Too much.

Matt Peiken: Too much? How so? what do you mean? 

Imam Nasser Ostah: Too much. Actually, I feel more better. As I told you, with neighbors, friends Muslims and non Muslims, I'm walking in my complex, always hello, how are you doing? How are you? Good morning, good evening. I feel in peace. Yeah, this is nice environment actually for me and for my family, my kids with me.

Both my children, they are in high school and they have one in elementary school here in Oakley. They are teaching in peace and in nice environment actually, yeah. I like living here in Asheville.